The game is about 2 month old i guess? If you dont have a life. Play 12 hours a day. And farm 50FE/ hour. Then you have around 36000FE. And lets be real. 95% of player only have about 1k+ FE now if they play daily. And this inflation driving me insane. It feels like people deliberately trying to stop others to have fun or getting some items
The problem is it's too easy to add FE to the economy, and too hard to remove it, then combined with an auction house to centralize that wealth... you get inflation. The fix is to remove more FE from the economy (likely via crafting), and remove more unnecessary items (copies of legendaries nobody will ever use). But it's a difficult balance to hit.
the game is in his infancy, you have to address this factor. Before you know if the game has balance problems you have to find players to play the game and generate/create builds, at this point with all the collected data the developers can "try" fix the problems . Foe example i played Thea and gemma CWC ring of ice, there is a huge disparity between the two;the first just need the lv 80 Trait to do t7 , but for the second you not only need that trait ...but even more levels and more gear;now you may want to say ...Thea is just better !, what if , perhaps is not Thea better but Gemma weak, and same for rare items, are really legendary that good....or rare items are just way to hard to combine? I have the example of my wand 6t1 ...it cost me 6k to make and compared to Jumble ice the difference is minimal ...But i had to waste 2days to craft it(13hours of me staring at the screen and screaming about the bad rolls) ...to have in the end a pseudo jumble ice , which cost me 2 times the price of that legendary...give the game some time and it will fix itself
Another thought, the drop ratios between Fuel and embers are way off. It might be interesting to significantly reduce ember drops, that way certain high demand embers (the common ones) might actually have some value
Yeah, that's I think a side effect of the auto-loot, I wouldn't normally pick up the lower embers but my pet does for me so more get generated. Making them rarer could definitely help fix that issue.
I hadn't realized crafting wasn't something most builds do (WW Rehan all my gear is crafted), so if nobody is crafting it makes sense- although the 6th affixes are soooo much more expensive than every other tier. If legendaries really are the BiS, than rolling for your 6th affix shouldn't be 30-40FE a shot. There could also be a way to increase the chance of a higher Tier or target a specific affix by having to use way more Embers than it would cost going one roll at a time. Like I could force a specific T2+ Affix, but would cost 100 embers per roll- get them out of the economy by trading convenience. Overall, lot of things Devs could tinker with, but we can all agree the current economy is pretty broken. I've alway thought ARPGs need more specialized content with specific rewards that force item/build variety to farm efficiently- entirely different builds to farm specific maps/bosses. PoE kind of does this with Mapping vs. Bossing vs. Delve/Delirum/etc but most of that comes down to build investment, unlike Diablo 2 where there were zones/bosses you couldn't really touch without a specific build. Right now, because of its fairly narrow scope, every character in TI basically does the same thing in the same way.
hello. I have started going through the neatherrealm (t4/t5 at the moment), but I'm having difficulty farming FE what should I do? Also is there a a good place to discuss build advice?
It is a combination of; - Lack of good builds that have good clear aswell as good mobility; this is a problem because of FE/hour you can farm as a more casual player. - The world drop pool being quite large and a lot of them being not used in any of the "meta" builds because there are superior options and/or an absense of content creator variety in terms of builds. (If there'd be 40 builds all able to farm at the same speed, being able to do all content and have about equivalent mobility and kill speed that are each being popularized then there would be more diversity in "good items" which presently is just not the case as that number is really low because starting a new build is pretty expensive to get it back to T8 content such as uber keegan/potb5) - The "mid tier legendaries" are just almost non-existant in terms of relevance or have too much variables.(touch of the darksurge & false god's skin for example) - Several items needing double corrodes to be worth something on ah because the rolls aren't impactful enough without (so yes, a buff to ominious/restless sounds good) - crafted items being valueless to many because they could eventually make their own for what they assume is cheaper, and again (ideal) double corrodes or they'll be cheap as failed corrodes lost their value already. However most of these slots aren't important enough to go for a double corrode immediately because it won't be build defining thus crafting materials being less relevant then getting your build defining items first. - The "currency sinks" in the game only involving crafting, but there being certain slots that people will never craft because of "overpowered"/build defining alternatives. (Belt/Rings are universally legendary across most meta builds because infinty & end of confusion being so dominant and build defining) - There being no tax on auction house trading making flipping really easy and profitable, in addition most players are F2P or just have the battle pass thus having very limited means to sell "niche" items and therefor only high end drops being consistent moneymakers at this point. More people get into flipping and thus they'll only flip the high end stuff making the rest of the market drop in price or getting mass bought in order to sell the truly high end for outrageous prices. Not many items individually will get you to smoothly farm or do the high end content(uber keegan/PoTB 5); thus those items that do it almost by themselves (alongside acceptable midrange or simple crafts) such as eternity/jumble ice being incredibly expensive because it isn't like there are many alternatives that will almost immediately get you in there.
I'd say point 1 and 2 in regards to builds, that may solve itself over time but because the game is brand new and there's a lot of really strong things people just aren't aware of. But a lot of the rest, limited trade space is definitely another factor, and hopefully season 2 brings some more sinks for FE to combat this inflation.
@@Tenkiei Yup they'll likely fix themselves as seasons pass. Hopefully next season(s) we'll have lower prices on items that are amazing for builds that don't yet exist which is a big limiting factor for versatility and testing i'd say. I'm sure they'll learn over time, hopefully rebalance some skills, items and the crafting system as we move on.
As someone who had hundreds of hours into Torchlight, and thousands into PoE, I can definitely attest to the need for dedicated loot sources. I've done dozens of path of the brave runs 1-4 each time, hit my 2k realm, etc... I've dropped one jumble ice, and one wheel of time card. That's it. The majority of my wealth has come from crafting gear, and selling my old pieces. Or, just saving random currency drops up. When too many drops, especially good drops, are just core chance, it drives prices to a point the average player will NEVER achieve. Dedicate the best loot, to a specific pool, keep the weighting around a 5% chance, and say a minimum of t7 or so. I'm here for the grind, but get disheartened after too many 8 to 12 hour days in a row without a single big drop, as do we all. Oh, or a simple one that could help create a new economic loop. Add a compass that allows for a better chance of RARER legendary drops. Up to the coders to tag the actual valuable ones properly.
It could work via a high tier compass, but in general the biggest issue the devs have to solve in regards to inflation isn't the drop rate of items. It's the drop rate of FE vs the uses for FE. The biggest driving factor behind why Jumble Ice is so expensive is because most people spend their FE on the trade house, and not on crafting. This means as people farm more FE gets added to the system, thus prices go up and up. We need to take FE out of the system.
@@Tenkiei I mean, I'm not disagreeing with you certainly, I do however feel having more dedicated drops would lower prices and help player retention in the long term. As an example, BL2 vs BL3, my way of thinking. I'll gladly spend 80 hours farming a dedicated drop, knowing eventually, I'll get it. Where as, running juice n go's, with no real direction or goal does get tiresome.
Personally, I love the crafting system. I've moved away from almost every legendary, in favor of self crafted gear. I've genuinely spent thousands of FE making things. So, maybe not enough people are crafting, and I do agree, some cooler mods, would be nice on higher end embers. But, some of us do live crafting, even in its current watered down state.
@@chrispierce1454 Dedicated drops are good for sure. Because they give a way for the market to adjust. If everyone wants a jumble ice and there's a dedicated way to farm it then people switch to farming it. more are generated, supply goes up to meet demand. But because people aren't farming say... Jawbone, there's less supply so the value goes up for people who choose to farm that or get it as a drop.
I would also like to add in a suggestion of being able to roll with trait cards. Being able to roll trait cards that grants flame item from gear and a chance to upgrade it to a sand/eternium is the difference between me not getting any or getting at most 10 per reroll of the map. I think it would be great if we can select one or two trait cards that are guaranteed to roll, so we don’t have to spend time clearing maps 5 times just for a reroll
I do play path of exile mainly, but torchlite is giving me the very first time a feeling of getting to something. I’m for sure a casual. But maybe you should think about that you are just to good at those games 😀. Very nice video, like always
I think the corrode system make legendary items more powerfull than a well crafted rare. A corroded unique most of the time is 50% more strong that his conterpath and people dont corrode bc if you faill you reduce his price or worst: you break it. I like items being expensive but i think a linit can be achive easily
I definitely like some items should be expensive, and yes I do think most items are achievable right now... But I also think the balance of the economy is off because extremely inflationary or deflationary economies are bad for the long-term balance.
If i were a XD dev, first thing i would do is look how PoE treat their economy, and how it works. (Since is super inspired in poe anyway) Theres quite a few differences mainly being that PoE is almost a decade old and devs had more time to fix those problems. But also i would say one of the main things that i didnt read in other comments is that this game is in some aspects p2w, not as bad as people make it seem to be, but compared to PoE, it is much more. So i feel devs kinda might want these crazy prices seem impossible to a casual player reach without spending cash. This game is new, so theres not a HUGE list of items, so of course the few that are super meta are going to get FAR more expensive than others, when they implement new skills, new items and new balance changes things are gonna get better. The two most obvious things for me to do is: -Make crafted gear competive with uniques so theres more fe burned on craft -Add drop pools to certain areas so players can target farm meta items and hidehout heroes will automaticaly exploit and balance lower priced forgotten uniques.
Fully crafted gear are trash compared to some of the legendary. The game has a balance issue and is gating new players or players who don't just throw time at grinding from various builds.
I've been playing for a few days now and there's a few things I don't like about this game. 1. Only a few skills really work well. 2. Regular builds fall short if you don't have thousands of FEs. 3. Skills looks basically the same only changing colors but most of them just boom boom. 4. It is pretty repetitive and not in a good way. I've played PoE for over 4k hours and never got bored, this game I can barely run 10 dungs and I'm already over it. The game is good for people with little time to play cause everything is pretty fast forward.
About no 4 ive been bitching about the loot system since last month its stupid this is an arpg you are supposed to be rewarded with good loot instead 100% of the loot is crap
The legendary drop rate also seem a bit off in the game, I'm at 250 hours without having found any good unique yet (highest sold was a infinity for 100FE)
I agree. I dropped a Thunder Manipulator during the first 3 days of the league then never had another drop of a good legendary worth 5+ FE for me till now after that.
Tenkiei, what is your feeling about build diversity? Whenever I look at some skill is immediately obvious what support will go in. Then add some curse/buff. Movement skill. Healing skill. For passives go as far as you can with mana reservation, some death pact activation. If you crit or channel you can play around with coc or cochan (no damage dealers though). Everything else is basically how lucky/dedicated you are too farm a unique.
Right now build diversity is primarily limited by lack of player knowledge, it'll expand as people figure out more things that work. For example almost no one is using King Lionheart's Ambition, but it's incredibly powerful.
Buff fossil drops that add extra affix = people craft more and end up using more embers than before Im mainly disencouraged from crafting because i can never be sure if i have enough(i have historically bad rng, been bottom 1% probability in multiple warframe farms) Guaranteeing a fossil like every watcher kill on t7+ would mean you can create a 6 affix item, however weak, every 6 watchers killed and would make people use up a lot more embers because they have the mats to experiemnt and ferl comfortable with crafting. I dread to think how untouchable crafting may feel with the current iteration to players who havent been playing a more hardcore arpg before amd since this is on mobile theres *a lot* of such ppl
That's why I made a comprehensive crafting guide when the game launched, so that people could find the information they needed without feeling intimidated. But more options for crafting would definitely help with inflation.
@@Tenkiei and on that note, that guide is wonderful! 😊 Its just that my experience so far has been trying crafting for a ring and a glove with everything i saved up until timemark 6 on 5 zones(also some tidbits from 3 alts around rimemark 3) and i burnt through my fuel making a 4 and 5 affix gear, even so i was settling for even t3-4 bonus if it was correct enchant on new affix slot, wasnt shooting for t1-2 at all. I been saving up ever since not being too comfortable even trying, despite that i know what i want and how i would want it I think the game maybe should try and 'force you' into crafting at certain points. Like at Tm4 quest, you get a sidequest that asks you to craft a 4 affix gear from empty base and gives you 1 fossil(untradeable one) to do it and at tm6 you get a quest with 2 fossils to craft a 6 affix gear as followup Would make players not just be more familiarized and practiced with the system, would allow you to make your first endgame viable gear for cheap by also teaching you about fossil use, all this around lvl 75 so it can be made of lvl 70-79 base so that there is still incentive to eventually swap this crafted piece for one that can have higher value affixes. Or at least something along these lines. Oddly enough, mobile games are generally pretty good with these type of tutorials that give you freebies to teach you by example how these desirable end game resources work, they shouldnt need to look too far for inspiration on the matter. This alone wouldnt solve the issue, but having first hand experience on how crafting can 'go well', people would appreciate it more. I would still just upgrade the +affix fossil acquisition rate(every 6 tm7+ watcher seems reasonable imo) for largely the same effect, theres not enough 'fuel' in the economy of crafting both literally and figuratively speaking
Lost Ark economy didnt get messed up due to pheons, it got messed up due to AGS not implementing 2FA in like idk, less than 2 months and the economy was eaten as half-alive newborn fetus by the bots and rmt because the game economy was not designed to combat such issues as locally they didnt exist
I have enough motivation to farm FE in order to purchase some of the top tier legendaries. But the thing I fear the most is that a single update or patch could potentially ruin the value of the legendary to the overall build. I’ve experience this before from different RPG games. I just wish that they add in dedicated loot source for some of the legendaries.
We'll see major changes to legendaries between seasons, but not within a season (unless there is a game-breaking bug). So top tier legendaries in season 1 will be top tier for the next 2 months or so. But then the top tier legendaries in season 2 might be different, there may be nerfs.
Any changes to items, drop rates, currency dumps, target farming, will only have any real effect in short term economies, and even then it only mitigates the issue to a degree. The problem is games insisting on trade as the primary gear acquisition route. Not a problem when economics is part of the game, but arpg's are not that, and this has been a proven issue in every single arpg that has tried it.
It has nothing to do with trade, and everything to do with the auction house. Think of it this way: Path of Exile's primary method of gear acquisition is trade, but doesn't have nearly as many inflation issues because it doesn't have an auction house and there is friction.
@@Tenkiei there are many reasons that PoE doesn't have the same inflation, and ease of trade is the worst multiplier, but with trade there is inflation. It is a universal constant in every economy that ever existed.
High prices can also be a good thing, when people complain about the price on those chase items, and then find 1, they dont seem to be complaining anymore once they are rolling around in FE like Like Scrooge McDuck in his Money Silo lol
True, though I do think right now things are a bit out of balance. Some of it will self-correct over time, and other aspects might need a bit of help/balancing from the devs.
If the item is ilvl 80 it came from a card. Exquisite Box can only drop in 1 single 89 zone and dont know what that is, almost all for sale are i80 Unique drops are kind of pathetic, I bought my Exquisite Box for 1400 FE. Prices for corroded items are ridiculous turning 1FE items into over 100FE
@@krishnaanand1730 idk i just thought dif trades for div servers means not as much listings per server wich makes it easier to avoid price fixing bots buying etc but dnt know to much bout economic in games just felt like it could make it worse
I agree that some items are way too strong, but I disagree about crafting. As someone who crafted more gear than buying those legendaries. I would say that crafting cos a fair bit. I would have to farm about 500 sands and 50 Fe to just make 4t1 and 2 t2-3 items. I think crafting is at a decent state. I think trading tax will be interesting approach to this, and also I agree with having bigger range of rolls on legendaries and having choice to modify rolls on legendaries with Fe will be great
I think crafting is in a decent state for creating ok items. But bad for creating the best items, because right now the only way to make the "best" item is craft ~6, double corrode them, and hope the right 2 mods go to T0. This creates a lot of waste and so most players don't engage with it. Thus if someone was to farm 100 FE, they might "remove" 50 from the economy, then use the gear to farm another 100 FE... and what does the rest get spent on? Usually a high end legendary item.
The only reason why items are so expensive is inflation. And inflation is there because there is no consequences of placing item for 20k. If there is fee of 5% for placing item on the market, all prices would drop to reasonable numbers. I bet there would be no listing for more than 2k.
Eternity would probably still be more, and some double corroded items would be more and in that case those would be the rare exceptions, not the norm. But you're right listing/trading fees would help combat inflation because currency would be taken out of the economy.
The inflation in game is worse than real life. Two weeks ago I could find FE for 30~40 flame sand, now the lowest you'll see is about 70 flame sands. That's more or less 100% increase. I also don't necessarily completely agree with your thumbnail. Yes TH-camrs aren't the only reason for the situation but content creators are making the demand for some items go really high. Just like what happens when gas get expensive. Life becomes expensive, and the baker who needs gas to make his business run sells bread at a higher price. Same thing for your random player who wants to sell a medium tier legendary. He wants the expensive one so he'll sell his loot for more so he can afford something better. And so on and so on. Now TH-camrs can't really be blamed for it either, that's the way things are and the problem is mostly due to the fact that there's no sink for the amount of flame elementiums accumulating in the servers.
Your last line hits exactly on my point. The reason the item prices go sky high when demand jumps is because there aren't enough ways to remove flame elementium from the economy. TH-camrs aren't making the flame elementium... at least unless you count helping people with farming guides. It's a byproduct of the system, too much FE in too little out. Prices will always jump when items are talked about but in many other games the jumps are smaller because there are more currency sinks.
I gave up on the game after a bit more than a week. I couldn't craft gear due to the FE cost, and I couldn't buy build enabling uniques that I needed for builds I wanted to try, and just not getting raw FE drops.
pretty sure your'e doing something wrong, cuz you can use cards and compasses to significantly increase your FE drops, most commen strat is converting gear dropped into FF and upgarding FF into FE by a card that have a 50% chance to do that.
Crafting is really quite cheap unless you're trying to make something that's completely perfect with mods from the 2 rare embers. Slightly below perfect stuff can be crafted for like 10-20 FE which is maybe 15 minutes of mapping once you have a strat set up.
Same- I'm really not seeing the FE gains in T7 to make it worth my time pushing WW Rehan and T8 being unsustainable I've kind of lost interest in TI after ~50hours. I could try another build, but it'll hit the exact same wall with the economy in its current state. Hopefully devs are watching and have some ideas.
Well i also gave up but for actually the opposite reason. Crafter basic gear that allowed to clear t4 easely, not spent any FE on it at all (2m dps per 5 sec). Then farmed t4 until lvl 90 and just bought items for 1FE each, which allowed to farm t7 with 12m dps. After week of playing i bought good crafting bases and crafted some strong items that allow to kill everything in seconds at 30m dps. Now there is nothing to do in the game, i am bored. Playing less and less, dps already risen to 99999999, no content. You can't afford those 1k+ FE items from market by farming FE from t7-t8 unless you spend whole day grinding. And even if you can, why bother? New heroes are money-locked by real $$$, pets are money locked, skins money locked. Really nothing to do.
@@LotusBlade-e6v what is your build when u start? my ww rehan is 1.4m dps only, i didnt craft any gear, i iust use gear dropped from mobs 😂. Im really new to this kind of game and if u could share the build with me, that would really be a good help. 😁
I would like to see something implemented like giving a slight advantage to players who actually engage in gameplay when it comes to using the auction house. Perhaps you are able to see items 30 seconds before players who just sit in town all day, so long as you have grinded a certain amount in the past X amount of minutes. Players who just sit on the auction house and scalp items all day serve no economic value, they are like the quant traders on the stockmarket that basically front run trades in order to put a small tax on other market participants because they have figured out how to execute trades microseconds ahead of others.
That would hurt the people who are crafting though, providing a valuable service by making crafting bases or turning partially finished bases into finished items.
@@Tenkiei Perhaps you would get a similar AH buff if you have engaged in a certain amount of crafting recently. Maybe the buff would be active during a limited number of search refreshes. The point is to discourage camping the marketplace as a means to leech off the 'economy'. This type of activity harms crafters and grinders by adding a market camper tax on to their crafting materials and gear.
@@kienmaple I want to reward players who contribute to the economy. Adding a scalper tax on to items being traded only serves to funnel resources away from productive participants in the market. Currently there is a popular scam constantly being used where the scammer will go into the enchanting fuel market and invert the price any quantity from being 2 FE for 99 Flame Sand to 99 FE for 2 Flame Sand, in an attempt to scam somebody who isn't paying attention. I would argue that somebody using a scam like this, even though he is technically being a market participant, thoroughly deserves punishment as his participation is purely destructive to the actual market.
Just make IT that you can Farm easy t8 and sustaining IT and get rid of the fucking rolling mods its Not fun To Roll 10 Times so i get over 100 Just make IT Like t7 100 loot droop and 50% qualety and t8 a Bit Higher
@@Tenkiei more Like Diablo 3 Kind of Style with the torment lvls high Tier more loot exp and better qualety with the extra mods you can Change the Maps For exampel Boss Rush insted Trial of the maschiens ,might there are alot of Options you can try or give more Content i dident thinked alot about this but thats what i feel right now more consistent clears Harder Content For better rewards so better loot dont know If this will Work of course
@@Robin00607 I do think they'll add more difficult content in the future. Right now timemarks stop at 7, but there's room for it to go up to 12. I know people talk about Timemark 8 with the spacetime turbulence, and technically there's "timemark 9" using a lot of high rarity compasses which does significantly scale enemy hp/damage. Even that though is tissue paper for a well geared build, which is why Traveler 8, Path of the Brave, and Uber Keegan have a 99% or so damage reduction. However I had been talking about rolling content, really the only way to remove the need to use compasses, or roll maps is to remove player choice alongside it. Which I think is something most people won't be in favor of.
The game is about 2 month old i guess?
If you dont have a life. Play 12 hours a day. And farm 50FE/ hour.
Then you have around 36000FE.
And lets be real. 95% of player only have about 1k+ FE now if they play daily.
And this inflation driving me insane. It feels like people deliberately trying to stop others to have fun or getting some items
The problem is it's too easy to add FE to the economy, and too hard to remove it, then combined with an auction house to centralize that wealth... you get inflation. The fix is to remove more FE from the economy (likely via crafting), and remove more unnecessary items (copies of legendaries nobody will ever use). But it's a difficult balance to hit.
One problem is just how strong the extremely rare legendary items are in this game comparatively even to perfectly crafted gear.
Yep I got into that a bit near the end.
@@Tenkiei yeah I see that now, I must have missed that on my first pass through. I love your suggestions, thank you for the TI content.
the game is in his infancy, you have to address this factor.
Before you know if the game has balance problems you have to find players to play the game and generate/create builds, at this point with all the collected data the developers can "try" fix the problems .
Foe example i played Thea and gemma CWC ring of ice, there is a huge disparity between the two;the first just need the lv 80 Trait to do t7 , but for the second you not only need that trait ...but even more levels and more gear;now you may want to say ...Thea is just better !, what if , perhaps is not Thea better but Gemma weak, and same for rare items, are really legendary that good....or rare items are just way to hard to combine?
I have the example of my wand 6t1 ...it cost me 6k to make and compared to Jumble ice the difference is minimal ...But i had to waste 2days to craft it(13hours of me staring at the screen and screaming about the bad rolls) ...to have in the end a pseudo jumble ice , which cost me 2 times the price of that legendary...give the game some time and it will fix itself
Another thought, the drop ratios between Fuel and embers are way off. It might be interesting to significantly reduce ember drops, that way certain high demand embers (the common ones) might actually have some value
Yeah, that's I think a side effect of the auto-loot, I wouldn't normally pick up the lower embers but my pet does for me so more get generated. Making them rarer could definitely help fix that issue.
I hadn't realized crafting wasn't something most builds do (WW Rehan all my gear is crafted), so if nobody is crafting it makes sense- although the 6th affixes are soooo much more expensive than every other tier. If legendaries really are the BiS, than rolling for your 6th affix shouldn't be 30-40FE a shot.
There could also be a way to increase the chance of a higher Tier or target a specific affix by having to use way more Embers than it would cost going one roll at a time. Like I could force a specific T2+ Affix, but would cost 100 embers per roll- get them out of the economy by trading convenience.
Overall, lot of things Devs could tinker with, but we can all agree the current economy is pretty broken. I've alway thought ARPGs need more specialized content with specific rewards that force item/build variety to farm efficiently- entirely different builds to farm specific maps/bosses. PoE kind of does this with Mapping vs. Bossing vs. Delve/Delirum/etc but most of that comes down to build investment, unlike Diablo 2 where there were zones/bosses you couldn't really touch without a specific build. Right now, because of its fairly narrow scope, every character in TI basically does the same thing in the same way.
hello. I have started going through the neatherrealm (t4/t5 at the moment), but I'm having difficulty farming FE what should I do?
Also is there a a good place to discuss build advice?
It is a combination of;
- Lack of good builds that have good clear aswell as good mobility; this is a problem because of FE/hour you can farm as a more casual player.
- The world drop pool being quite large and a lot of them being not used in any of the "meta" builds because there are superior options and/or an absense of content creator variety in terms of builds. (If there'd be 40 builds all able to farm at the same speed, being able to do all content and have about equivalent mobility and kill speed that are each being popularized then there would be more diversity in "good items" which presently is just not the case as that number is really low because starting a new build is pretty expensive to get it back to T8 content such as uber keegan/potb5)
- The "mid tier legendaries" are just almost non-existant in terms of relevance or have too much variables.(touch of the darksurge & false god's skin for example)
- Several items needing double corrodes to be worth something on ah because the rolls aren't impactful enough without (so yes, a buff to ominious/restless sounds good)
- crafted items being valueless to many because they could eventually make their own for what they assume is cheaper, and again (ideal) double corrodes or they'll be cheap as failed corrodes lost their value already. However most of these slots aren't important enough to go for a double corrode immediately because it won't be build defining thus crafting materials being less relevant then getting your build defining items first.
- The "currency sinks" in the game only involving crafting, but there being certain slots that people will never craft because of "overpowered"/build defining alternatives. (Belt/Rings are universally legendary across most meta builds because infinty & end of confusion being so dominant and build defining)
- There being no tax on auction house trading making flipping really easy and profitable, in addition most players are F2P or just have the battle pass thus having very limited means to sell "niche" items and therefor only high end drops being consistent moneymakers at this point. More people get into flipping and thus they'll only flip the high end stuff making the rest of the market drop in price or getting mass bought in order to sell the truly high end for outrageous prices.
Not many items individually will get you to smoothly farm or do the high end content(uber keegan/PoTB 5); thus those items that do it almost by themselves (alongside acceptable midrange or simple crafts) such as eternity/jumble ice being incredibly expensive because it isn't like there are many alternatives that will almost immediately get you in there.
I'd say point 1 and 2 in regards to builds, that may solve itself over time but because the game is brand new and there's a lot of really strong things people just aren't aware of.
But a lot of the rest, limited trade space is definitely another factor, and hopefully season 2 brings some more sinks for FE to combat this inflation.
@@Tenkiei Yup they'll likely fix themselves as seasons pass. Hopefully next season(s) we'll have lower prices on items that are amazing for builds that don't yet exist which is a big limiting factor for versatility and testing i'd say.
I'm sure they'll learn over time, hopefully rebalance some skills, items and the crafting system as we move on.
@@dreamz2k9 Definitely, and hopefully we see some buffs for some of the more underpowered rarer legendary items.
i mean it makes sense Eternity is the Torchjlight equivalent of a headhunter pretty much for example.
As someone who had hundreds of hours into Torchlight, and thousands into PoE, I can definitely attest to the need for dedicated loot sources. I've done dozens of path of the brave runs 1-4 each time, hit my 2k realm, etc... I've dropped one jumble ice, and one wheel of time card. That's it. The majority of my wealth has come from crafting gear, and selling my old pieces. Or, just saving random currency drops up.
When too many drops, especially good drops, are just core chance, it drives prices to a point the average player will NEVER achieve.
Dedicate the best loot, to a specific pool, keep the weighting around a 5% chance, and say a minimum of t7 or so.
I'm here for the grind, but get disheartened after too many 8 to 12 hour days in a row without a single big drop, as do we all.
Oh, or a simple one that could help create a new economic loop. Add a compass that allows for a better chance of RARER legendary drops. Up to the coders to tag the actual valuable ones properly.
It could work via a high tier compass, but in general the biggest issue the devs have to solve in regards to inflation isn't the drop rate of items. It's the drop rate of FE vs the uses for FE.
The biggest driving factor behind why Jumble Ice is so expensive is because most people spend their FE on the trade house, and not on crafting. This means as people farm more FE gets added to the system, thus prices go up and up. We need to take FE out of the system.
@@Tenkiei I mean, I'm not disagreeing with you certainly, I do however feel having more dedicated drops would lower prices and help player retention in the long term.
As an example, BL2 vs BL3, my way of thinking. I'll gladly spend 80 hours farming a dedicated drop, knowing eventually, I'll get it. Where as, running juice n go's, with no real direction or goal does get tiresome.
Personally, I love the crafting system. I've moved away from almost every legendary, in favor of self crafted gear. I've genuinely spent thousands of FE making things. So, maybe not enough people are crafting, and I do agree, some cooler mods, would be nice on higher end embers. But, some of us do live crafting, even in its current watered down state.
@@chrispierce1454 Dedicated drops are good for sure. Because they give a way for the market to adjust. If everyone wants a jumble ice and there's a dedicated way to farm it then people switch to farming it. more are generated, supply goes up to meet demand. But because people aren't farming say... Jawbone, there's less supply so the value goes up for people who choose to farm that or get it as a drop.
I would also like to add in a suggestion of being able to roll with trait cards. Being able to roll trait cards that grants flame item from gear and a chance to upgrade it to a sand/eternium is the difference between me not getting any or getting at most 10 per reroll of the map.
I think it would be great if we can select one or two trait cards that are guaranteed to roll, so we don’t have to spend time clearing maps 5 times just for a reroll
Low drop rates + youtuber’s influence made a casual player call it quits. 😅
It's not youtubers... TH-camrs aren't creating 100,000+ FE and letting them sit there.
I do play path of exile mainly, but torchlite is giving me the very first time a feeling of getting to something. I’m for sure a casual. But maybe you should think about that you are just to good at those games 😀. Very nice video, like always
I think the corrode system make legendary items more powerfull than a well crafted rare. A corroded unique most of the time is 50% more strong that his conterpath and people dont corrode bc if you faill you reduce his price or worst: you break it.
I like items being expensive but i think a linit can be achive easily
I definitely like some items should be expensive, and yes I do think most items are achievable right now... But I also think the balance of the economy is off because extremely inflationary or deflationary economies are bad for the long-term balance.
If i were a XD dev, first thing i would do is look how PoE treat their economy, and how it works. (Since is super inspired in poe anyway)
Theres quite a few differences mainly being that PoE is almost a decade old and devs had more time to fix those problems.
But also i would say one of the main things that i didnt read in other comments is that this game is in some aspects p2w, not as bad as people make it seem to be, but compared to PoE, it is much more. So i feel devs kinda might want these crazy prices seem impossible to a casual player reach without spending cash.
This game is new, so theres not a HUGE list of items, so of course the few that are super meta are going to get FAR more expensive than others, when they implement new skills, new items and new balance changes things are gonna get better.
The two most obvious things for me to do is:
-Make crafted gear competive with uniques so theres more fe burned on craft
-Add drop pools to certain areas so players can target farm meta items and hidehout heroes will automaticaly exploit and balance lower priced forgotten uniques.
Fully crafted gear are trash compared to some of the legendary. The game has a balance issue and is gating new players or players who don't just throw time at grinding from various builds.
I've been playing for a few days now and there's a few things I don't like about this game.
1. Only a few skills really work well.
2. Regular builds fall short if you don't have thousands of FEs.
3. Skills looks basically the same only changing colors but most of them just boom boom.
4. It is pretty repetitive and not in a good way. I've played PoE for over 4k hours and never got bored, this game I can barely run 10 dungs and I'm already over it.
The game is good for people with little time to play cause everything is pretty fast forward.
About no 4 ive been bitching about the loot system since last month its stupid this is an arpg you are supposed to be rewarded with good loot instead 100% of the loot is crap
The legendary drop rate also seem a bit off in the game, I'm at 250 hours without having found any good unique yet (highest sold was a infinity for 100FE)
Infinity is one of the best items in the game though
@@PursuitSk8 Results may vary*
That's why some of the more common legendary items need to be made rarer and/or have more variance.
I agree. I dropped a Thunder Manipulator during the first 3 days of the league then never had another drop of a good legendary worth 5+ FE for me till now after that.
Tenkiei, what is your feeling about build diversity? Whenever I look at some skill is immediately obvious what support will go in. Then add some curse/buff. Movement skill. Healing skill. For passives go as far as you can with mana reservation, some death pact activation. If you crit or channel you can play around with coc or cochan (no damage dealers though). Everything else is basically how lucky/dedicated you are too farm a unique.
Right now build diversity is primarily limited by lack of player knowledge, it'll expand as people figure out more things that work. For example almost no one is using King Lionheart's Ambition, but it's incredibly powerful.
Buff fossil drops that add extra affix = people craft more and end up using more embers than before
Im mainly disencouraged from crafting because i can never be sure if i have enough(i have historically bad rng, been bottom 1% probability in multiple warframe farms)
Guaranteeing a fossil like every watcher kill on t7+ would mean you can create a 6 affix item, however weak, every 6 watchers killed and would make people use up a lot more embers because they have the mats to experiemnt and ferl comfortable with crafting.
I dread to think how untouchable crafting may feel with the current iteration to players who havent been playing a more hardcore arpg before amd since this is on mobile theres *a lot* of such ppl
That's why I made a comprehensive crafting guide when the game launched, so that people could find the information they needed without feeling intimidated. But more options for crafting would definitely help with inflation.
@@Tenkiei and on that note, that guide is wonderful! 😊
Its just that my experience so far has been trying crafting for a ring and a glove with everything i saved up until timemark 6 on 5 zones(also some tidbits from 3 alts around rimemark 3) and i burnt through my fuel making a 4 and 5 affix gear, even so i was settling for even t3-4 bonus if it was correct enchant on new affix slot, wasnt shooting for t1-2 at all.
I been saving up ever since not being too comfortable even trying, despite that i know what i want and how i would want it
I think the game maybe should try and 'force you' into crafting at certain points. Like at Tm4 quest, you get a sidequest that asks you to craft a 4 affix gear from empty base and gives you 1 fossil(untradeable one) to do it and at tm6 you get a quest with 2 fossils to craft a 6 affix gear as followup
Would make players not just be more familiarized and practiced with the system, would allow you to make your first endgame viable gear for cheap by also teaching you about fossil use, all this around lvl 75 so it can be made of lvl 70-79 base so that there is still incentive to eventually swap this crafted piece for one that can have higher value affixes. Or at least something along these lines. Oddly enough, mobile games are generally pretty good with these type of tutorials that give you freebies to teach you by example how these desirable end game resources work, they shouldnt need to look too far for inspiration on the matter. This alone wouldnt solve the issue, but having first hand experience on how crafting can 'go well', people would appreciate it more. I would still just upgrade the +affix fossil acquisition rate(every 6 tm7+ watcher seems reasonable imo) for largely the same effect, theres not enough 'fuel' in the economy of crafting both literally and figuratively speaking
close the auction house, everyone self found, peace
Trading tax can ruin the entire trade house. Lost Ark messed up pretty bad with their auction house
A trading tax when poorly implemented can absolutely ruin an economy. Economies are delicate and a solution needs to be chosen carefully.
Lost Ark economy didnt get messed up due to pheons, it got messed up due to AGS not implementing 2FA in like idk, less than 2 months and the economy was eaten as half-alive newborn fetus by the bots and rmt because the game economy was not designed to combat such issues as locally they didnt exist
I have enough motivation to farm FE in order to purchase some of the top tier legendaries. But the thing I fear the most is that a single update or patch could potentially ruin the value of the legendary to the overall build. I’ve experience this before from different RPG games. I just wish that they add in dedicated loot source for some of the legendaries.
We'll see major changes to legendaries between seasons, but not within a season (unless there is a game-breaking bug). So top tier legendaries in season 1 will be top tier for the next 2 months or so. But then the top tier legendaries in season 2 might be different, there may be nerfs.
Any changes to items, drop rates, currency dumps, target farming, will only have any real effect in short term economies, and even then it only mitigates the issue to a degree.
The problem is games insisting on trade as the primary gear acquisition route. Not a problem when economics is part of the game, but arpg's are not that, and this has been a proven issue in every single arpg that has tried it.
It has nothing to do with trade, and everything to do with the auction house. Think of it this way: Path of Exile's primary method of gear acquisition is trade, but doesn't have nearly as many inflation issues because it doesn't have an auction house and there is friction.
@@Tenkiei there are many reasons that PoE doesn't have the same inflation, and ease of trade is the worst multiplier, but with trade there is inflation. It is a universal constant in every economy that ever existed.
the T1 legendary drop rates are a little too low...its like finding mirrors in poe almost impossible
High prices can also be a good thing, when people complain about the price on those chase items, and then find 1, they dont seem to be complaining anymore once they are rolling around in FE like Like Scrooge McDuck in his Money Silo lol
True, though I do think right now things are a bit out of balance. Some of it will self-correct over time, and other aspects might need a bit of help/balancing from the devs.
The main problem is the people that control the game by not putting a limit on how much can be charged for said item, that would solve it all.
I hate that 99% of pink/corroded purples are better than my stashed(100+) legendary items
A kinda agree, but then again Memory went up right after you posted a wilt build, and same with jumble ice! Lol 💜
Except Jumble Ice then doubled in price and I haven't talked about it :P
@@Tenkiei you got a fair point. I think with the game being so new the market will be weird
@@WNS_River Absolutely. A lot of the issues will be sorted out over time.
you predicted the TAX feature 😅
I think the biggest problem is how strong legendary items are and the only way to upgrade them doesn't even cost FE so no reason for us to spend FE.
Yeah, a way to spend FE to upgrade legendary items would be another way to solve the problem.
If the item is ilvl 80 it came from a card. Exquisite Box can only drop in 1 single 89 zone and dont know what that is, almost all for sale are i80
Unique drops are kind of pathetic, I bought my Exquisite Box for 1400 FE. Prices for corroded items are ridiculous turning 1FE items into over 100FE
Any idea if the items in trade house can be seen cross server ?
Ye they can which makes everything even worse
Yep, all 3 servers share items.
@@saschaberger7201 why so, isn't cross server trade a good thing? More number of players means more items means lesser prices right ?
@@krishnaanand1730 idk i just thought dif trades for div servers means not as much listings per server wich makes it easier to avoid price fixing bots buying etc but dnt know to much bout economic in games just felt like it could make it worse
I agree that some items are way too strong, but I disagree about crafting. As someone who crafted more gear than buying those legendaries. I would say that crafting cos a fair bit. I would have to farm about 500 sands and 50 Fe to just make 4t1 and 2 t2-3 items. I think crafting is at a decent state. I think trading tax will be interesting approach to this, and also I agree with having bigger range of rolls on legendaries and having choice to modify rolls on legendaries with Fe will be great
I think crafting is in a decent state for creating ok items. But bad for creating the best items, because right now the only way to make the "best" item is craft ~6, double corrode them, and hope the right 2 mods go to T0. This creates a lot of waste and so most players don't engage with it.
Thus if someone was to farm 100 FE, they might "remove" 50 from the economy, then use the gear to farm another 100 FE... and what does the rest get spent on? Usually a high end legendary item.
The only reason why items are so expensive is inflation. And inflation is there because there is no consequences of placing item for 20k. If there is fee of 5% for placing item on the market, all prices would drop to reasonable numbers. I bet there would be no listing for more than 2k.
Eternity would probably still be more, and some double corroded items would be more and in that case those would be the rare exceptions, not the norm. But you're right listing/trading fees would help combat inflation because currency would be taken out of the economy.
The inflation in game is worse than real life.
Two weeks ago I could find FE for 30~40 flame sand, now the lowest you'll see is about 70 flame sands. That's more or less 100% increase.
I also don't necessarily completely agree with your thumbnail. Yes TH-camrs aren't the only reason for the situation but content creators are making the demand for some items go really high. Just like what happens when gas get expensive. Life becomes expensive, and the baker who needs gas to make his business run sells bread at a higher price. Same thing for your random player who wants to sell a medium tier legendary. He wants the expensive one so he'll sell his loot for more so he can afford something better. And so on and so on.
Now TH-camrs can't really be blamed for it either, that's the way things are and the problem is mostly due to the fact that there's no sink for the amount of flame elementiums accumulating in the servers.
Your last line hits exactly on my point. The reason the item prices go sky high when demand jumps is because there aren't enough ways to remove flame elementium from the economy. TH-camrs aren't making the flame elementium... at least unless you count helping people with farming guides. It's a byproduct of the system, too much FE in too little out.
Prices will always jump when items are talked about but in many other games the jumps are smaller because there are more currency sinks.
Hello Mr. Algorithm, please push this channel!
Thanks!
talking wise stuff here my friend.
Thank you!
A fellow lionheart enjoyer I see
Yep, it's turned into quite a nice build!
or an 'artificial' supply and demand
Instead of a tax the devs need to increase drop rates
Nope, that will make the problem worse. Because then more items will be worthless and inflation will continue.
I gave up on the game after a bit more than a week. I couldn't craft gear due to the FE cost, and I couldn't buy build enabling uniques that I needed for builds I wanted to try, and just not getting raw FE drops.
pretty sure your'e doing something wrong, cuz you can use cards and compasses to significantly increase your FE drops, most commen strat is converting gear dropped into FF and upgarding FF into FE by a card that have a 50% chance to do that.
Crafting is really quite cheap unless you're trying to make something that's completely perfect with mods from the 2 rare embers. Slightly below perfect stuff can be crafted for like 10-20 FE which is maybe 15 minutes of mapping once you have a strat set up.
Same- I'm really not seeing the FE gains in T7 to make it worth my time pushing WW Rehan and T8 being unsustainable I've kind of lost interest in TI after ~50hours. I could try another build, but it'll hit the exact same wall with the economy in its current state. Hopefully devs are watching and have some ideas.
Well i also gave up but for actually the opposite reason. Crafter basic gear that allowed to clear t4 easely, not spent any FE on it at all (2m dps per 5 sec). Then farmed t4 until lvl 90 and just bought items for 1FE each, which allowed to farm t7 with 12m dps. After week of playing i bought good crafting bases and crafted some strong items that allow to kill everything in seconds at 30m dps. Now there is nothing to do in the game, i am bored. Playing less and less, dps already risen to 99999999, no content. You can't afford those 1k+ FE items from market by farming FE from t7-t8 unless you spend whole day grinding. And even if you can, why bother? New heroes are money-locked by real $$$, pets are money locked, skins money locked. Really nothing to do.
@@LotusBlade-e6v what is your build when u start? my ww rehan is 1.4m dps only, i didnt craft any gear, i iust use gear dropped from mobs 😂. Im really new to this kind of game and if u could share the build with me, that would really be a good help. 😁
I would like to see something implemented like giving a slight advantage to players who actually engage in gameplay when it comes to using the auction house. Perhaps you are able to see items 30 seconds before players who just sit in town all day, so long as you have grinded a certain amount in the past X amount of minutes. Players who just sit on the auction house and scalp items all day serve no economic value, they are like the quant traders on the stockmarket that basically front run trades in order to put a small tax on other market participants because they have figured out how to execute trades microseconds ahead of others.
That would hurt the people who are crafting though, providing a valuable service by making crafting bases or turning partially finished bases into finished items.
So youre punishing players to want to participate in the economy? nO
@@Tenkiei Perhaps you would get a similar AH buff if you have engaged in a certain amount of crafting recently. Maybe the buff would be active during a limited number of search refreshes. The point is to discourage camping the marketplace as a means to leech off the 'economy'. This type of activity harms crafters and grinders by adding a market camper tax on to their crafting materials and gear.
@@kienmaple I want to reward players who contribute to the economy. Adding a scalper tax on to items being traded only serves to funnel resources away from productive participants in the market. Currently there is a popular scam constantly being used where the scammer will go into the enchanting fuel market and invert the price any quantity from being 2 FE for 99 Flame Sand to 99 FE for 2 Flame Sand, in an attempt to scam somebody who isn't paying attention. I would argue that somebody using a scam like this, even though he is technically being a market participant, thoroughly deserves punishment as his participation is purely destructive to the actual market.
That's why normal players like me don't want to continue to play this game. i switched to Traha Global
I just assume it's RMT
That and also flippers
Bots
Subtitle Indonesia pls :(
TH-cam should have an option to use generated captions if you hit the "CC" button.
Just make IT that you can Farm easy t8 and sustaining IT and get rid of the fucking rolling mods its Not fun To Roll 10 Times so i get over 100 Just make IT Like t7 100 loot droop and 50% qualety and t8 a Bit Higher
That would cause inflation to exponentially increase because people would generate more flame elementium, and not use that much more.
@@Tenkiei then Balance around IT
@@Robin00607 So would you be ok with the loot bonus being removed entirely (no more rolling, but you get less loot)?
@@Tenkiei more Like Diablo 3 Kind of Style with the torment lvls high Tier more loot exp and better qualety with the extra mods you can Change the Maps For exampel Boss Rush insted Trial of the maschiens ,might there are alot of Options you can try or give more Content i dident thinked alot about this but thats what i feel right now more consistent clears Harder Content For better rewards so better loot dont know If this will Work of course
@@Robin00607 I do think they'll add more difficult content in the future. Right now timemarks stop at 7, but there's room for it to go up to 12. I know people talk about Timemark 8 with the spacetime turbulence, and technically there's "timemark 9" using a lot of high rarity compasses which does significantly scale enemy hp/damage.
Even that though is tissue paper for a well geared build, which is why Traveler 8, Path of the Brave, and Uber Keegan have a 99% or so damage reduction.
However I had been talking about rolling content, really the only way to remove the need to use compasses, or roll maps is to remove player choice alongside it. Which I think is something most people won't be in favor of.