I was extremely loyal to WCW. Sat front row. Anything near Tampa I was at. Even when it was bad I stuck with it. The David Arquette bit, I shut it off and never came back.
You weren't wavering around mid 98? WCW was a slowly sinking ship after Starcade 97. They didn't know what to do with the NWO or the cruiserweights. Really, anyone outside of constantly pushing Hogan and Goldberg. I definitely understand about the NWO because that phenomenon was printing money, but they didn't have a plan. It was bad. Really bad
@@handsolo1209 WWE did put the title on Benoit, him and Eddy at Wrestlemania after winning is one of the most well remembered moments of the 2000's. I mean seriously was Sid gonna draw any money at that point? How many times had he been back and forth and he never moved the needle for either company.
@@cb3648 Sid was always a draw. Granted by 2000 he was on the slide, but he was still a big name. Benoit couldn't draw flies. Eddie is the worst drawing champion in WWE history. Hogan slamming Andre at WM3 is a well remembered moment. Benoit and Eddie winning titles is only remembered by the marks. WCW putting the belt on the dictionary definition of midcarder killed the belt completely. Ric Flair, Vader, Sting, Hogan, Savage, Goldberg, then that charisma vacuum...
Oh damn, you obviously were involved in ironing out the details behind the scenes bc I never missed Nitro at the time and knew all a fan could know so you must be an insider bc if an average fan says this they're just a corny douche.
Finger poke was bad but they still had decent ratings they just couldn't beat Raw, the Fxxk this show heat started when Jericho dipped and later Raven and the Radical had Shane Douglas not gotten scared and Bruce prichard not been clueless WCW could've possibly ended by 2000
I remember being very angry with that first fingerpoke. The crowd was very angry too. Nash pats himself on the back for that train wreck! Nash beating goldberg for title, i remember fans were cheering for nash winning. I also at the time was happy nash won.
They need to make a documentary about the GOOD of WCW. It's always about the bad, the nWo got too big, the Starccade '97 finish, the Warrior's WCW run, the finger-poke of doom, Bash at the Beach 2000, David Arquette, etc. WCW had millions of viewers each week, there was a lot of good there to keep them watching each week. Instead of talking about Starcadde '97 over and over again, talk about the much better Hogan/Sting rematch at SuperBrawl. Talk about the great Savage/DDP fued. Talk about the Outsiders' feuds with Harlem Heat or the Steiners. Talk about Scott Steiner's transformation into one of the best heel characters of all time. Talk about how WCW was able to get even Lex Luger over, to the point he beat Hogan for the belt. The creative geniuses in WWE were never able to get Lex over to that degree. WWE was doing a lot of trash during the Monday Night Wars, too. But you never hear them talking about something like Beaver Cleavage as much as you hear them talking about GI Bro.
I remember the finger poke being turn the channel heat, only because I think it felt like as a kid, the good guys were losing too much and the babyface Nash and Wolfpack was so cool at the time, it was one of the reasons I was watching.
Russo wasn't there for Starrcade 97. Russo wasn't there for Finger poke of Doom. Russo wasn't there when they signed Hulk Hogan or Ultimate Warrior. As far as I'm concerned WCW was done for even before Russo.
The fingerpoke is what made me leave for good. Was it the worst thing they did? No, but it was just the first thing that was bad enough to get hundreds of thousands to bail. Kinda tired of Nash trying to defend the finger poke by pointing out that something else was worse after the fingerpoke happened.
@@machosavage4194 Take notice though, the ratings fully dropped off after the Nwo white B team was completely dismantled and never built back up with a new leader..proving the real interest was in the NWO Civil war over seeing the same old WcW vs Nwo AGAIN. That was the real major damage of the Finger Poke, it changed the landscape backwards to being boring and predicable again.
No one talks about what Russo did in his first 3 months. To my knowledge there’s no video summarizing what he did during this period. Being a kid at the time, I remember being very fond of this period (the Powers that Be, pushing the Filthy Animals, pushing Benoit, having Hart beat Benoit for the title, the La Parka gimmick)
It did not quite turn me away but it was making me start to think of Turning Away. I was definitely watching a lot more WWF at that time anyway butt I feel like I remember the world title Tournament being shortly after he started and that shit made me gag because I had high hopes for it going in
I do not like Russo, but WCW was pure dreck of rehash from the Finger poke until Russo came in. I found out later that they finally did Hogan vs Nash but Hogan was back in the red and yellow.....again. I would argue that the first nine months of 1999 was worse than anything Russo did in 2000.
Compared to the bullshit that came later, the finger poke of doom wasn't that bad since it was scripted as a storyline landmark for the reunification of the NWO. However, it also became a landmark of WCW's decline when you combine it to the other things that happened that very same night.
Kevin blaming a TV executive who wasn't a wrestler for the demise of WCW is just as bad as him downplaying how stupid the finger poke of doom truly was.
The Finger Poke didn't work AT ALL! Half the WcW crowd hated Hogan and Goldberg alike, after the FPOD we had literally no one to root for and The Nwo Civil War combined with WcW 3 way battle was far more suspenseful and interesting than seeing WcW vs the old Nwo again. People who say "the ratings didn't fall off until a month after the Finger Poke" neglected to notice or even mention the ratings fully dropped off after the Nwo B team was completely dismantled and never built back up proving my point.
I may be a bit off topic, I'll take that when time passed after the FPOD that Hogan got his Karma when Jeff Jarrett laid down at Bash then Booker getting the title..
Arquette winning the belt was the nail in the coffin for me. I was barely hanging on to WCW at that point, the Goldberg streak bothered me, simply because it should have been someone else kevin didn't need it. Finger poke of doom... didn't bother me a bit, that was an old school heat move, how many times has someone laid down, gave up, or just sold the belt for a title change, DiBiase made a career out of it.
Kinda funny on Nash beating Goldberg because Nash didn't need it. It's amazing how similar of a situation that is to Brock beating Taker at Wrestlemania.
Goldberg losing the title was the start of the downfall, then the finger poke happened right after, there were 40 thousand fans at the Georgia dome that night to see Nash vs Goldberg rematch but hogan abused his "creative control " and made it hogan vs Nash and basically handed himself the title, ppl were pissed
Kevin acts like the failure of WCW had nothing to do with what was put on the screen. Then why did the ratings drop? Why were fans bored with WCW and watching WWF instead? Were all the viewers concerned with Nitro's budget, or network interference, or other behind-the-scenes drama? Of course not. The product on their TV screen was getting worse and worse, for whatever reason, and they tuned out.
January 4 1999. Not the poke. The fact that mankind winning was one of the greatest moments in WWE history. The pop that stone cold got running out. I've never seen an audience more enraptured in any sport...ever.
This is the most logical and level headed take I've heard from a wrestling fan on this topic. People (especially fans of WCW) love to write their own head cannon. The product on TV was shit. Simple
@@mikelindner2646 Turner executives were more comfortable keeping WCW on their networks when it had high ratings, was beating WWF, and could sell tons of advertising and merchandise. Whether they liked wrestling or not, it was good business. When the fan base started to leave because of the bad matches and storylines there was little reason to keep it afloat.
I don't entirely disagree with this, but, if you were to ask me who killed WCW, the verb that I am focusing on is "kill", as in end, or terminate. I'd say AOL/Time Warner, that's who truly killed WCW, not Russo, not Bischoff, not the "finger poke of doom" and I'm sure you could think of alot more, think about it rationally and logically, all of those are wrestling people/events, in some way shape or form, specifically WCW wrestling. People associated with the company (why would they want to kill their own company???) or something that happened in one of their shows. Yes, you can make an argument, the ratings were down, WWF were burying them in the ratings blah blah. The truth is that maybe the company still would have been around today? doubtful but it would have gone on a bit longer then it did had AOL/Time Warner took it off the air and allowed it to get bought out by WWE, or, as I understood it, they sold it to WWE, so that was the nail in the coffin, it doesn't matter how many wrestling people or "heads" or "suits" in WCW who "didn't know what they were doing" or "poorly managed" and "bad angles" "egos" "politics", again, all of that is WRESTLING related, we're talking about the death of the company, AOL/Time Warner is responsible for that, I don't think it mattered that WCW were getting high ratings, as Dallas has been quoted saying "Yeah but it's your highest rated show", the fact of the matter is, they did not want wrestling on the Turner Networks any more, so they killed it by selling it, to WWE as it were, it's not a hard question to answer folks, if you just stop and use your brain and think it through.
Once that logo got changed to the Star Trek logo then the VCR stopped recording WCW. That logo change took the feeling away of wrestling that didn’t sit well.
What killed WCW was Bischoff and company’s failure to see beyond the NWO. Bret Hart was picked up from WWF, in the midst of the beginnings of the attitude era and they couldn’t come up with a proper way to present him and pit him against Hogan, a match I see as important and appealing as Hogan- Flair when hogan first debuted in WCW. They dropped the ball big time
Bischoff is nothing more than a one trick pony. The fact that Cornette fanboys won't even acknowledge what Bischoff did to ruin TNA by rehashing the NWO with Aces & Eights only because Bischoff has trash talked Russo shows that wrestling fanboys are worse than Disney shills.
Flair carried Hogan in ALL of their matches, and jobbed to him in probably 95% of them. That's why Hogan loved working with him. While Bret would have likely jobbed to Hogan, Hogan knew Bret wouldn't have made him look good, and thus Hogan V Bret in WCW would have never happened no matter what.
Hell, even if you keep Bret away from Hulk because Hulk won't job, or you keep him away from Goidberg because of the streak and not wanting to job Bret... there's a ton of good upper card feuds they could have run with Bret (esp Flair!). But they just didn't do anything with him, until they let Goldberg kill his career for no real reason.
I would have liked to see Hall, Nash, DDP and Raven form a faction with them working with each other early in wcw Diamond Studd, Scotty Flamingo, And Vinnie Vegas
Everyone seems to forget when Rousseau was there the ratings went up a point and a half.. and when they hired Vince Russo they want to make WCW more like WWF attitude era.... But I wish they would have gotten clearance corporate executives sponsors that WCW we're going to turn into Jerry Springer style professional wrestling like the attitude era.... He was hired to do a job but the good old boys backstage didn't like it.... And I'm grateful that he started pushing the mid Carders and he also pushed Bret Hart and started utilizing him more.... And he pushed hulk Hogan out of the nest.
Just proves Vince needed a filter and Eric wasn’t a good one. Vince McMahon had more experience at spotting bad ideas since he also made those mistakes early on in wwf. Eric didn’t have enough time to get the same experience.
@@JackCrossSama How many times do need to point out the fact that McMahon tanked his own company for 25+ years for you to know that he's not this "great filter" that you think he is? LMAO and you wonder why people outside the wrestling bubble view you wrestling fanboys as worse than Disney shills.
Well, Hulk was actually fine with Jarrett laying down. What he wasn't fine with was Russo going on the mic and changing everything on TV after he left the building. That's what he sued over.
Nash is so insightful. I don't always agree, but I always appreciate his point of view. "Owen got cross-over press." Talk about shutting down an argument.
Do you know the backstory? Konnan took his money then fucked off on him for an interview for one of his interview series (i think YouShoot, but don't quote me) I think there's a bit more to it (and not in the "oh maybe Konnan's side has a point" kind of way), but I can't remember it all. Suffice to say, very scummy.
Tony Schiavone killed WCW. they never said Arquette winning was part of the promotion for the movie, Tony Schiavone pitched the idea and not someone form WB
people have to sign off on that. Give the man a break for just having an idea. We all have ideas. For them to become reality numerous people have to sign off on them.
I have my doubts on Tony being the one to pitch that. Russo is notorious for lying. I'd love to hear from Tony to see if he pitched that. I'll have to listen to the next WHW podcast and get through the 3rd grade humor to see if it's addressed.
It's not the finger poke by itself that was so bad but the fact it killed the biggest thing wcw had going with the nwo rivalry because hogan was insecure the red was more over and wouldn't do business
I seem to remember Kev once said of 99-00 WCW that a lot was going on that didn't make sense, but when you get that paycheck every two weeks, does it have to? That sums up a lot of what was wrong with the company at the time.
It was the exact opposite of the problem with pre-Attitude WWF. The latter had virtually no guaranteed money and you were killing yourself for too little money, but in WCW everyone was guaranteed way too much money and main eventers could quickly get themselves insta-raises just from having another peer walk through the door. Neither approach could work long term for opposing reasons.
I will forever blame "That Doesn't Work For Me, Brother" Hogan and his little "Yes Man" Eric Bischoff for killing WCW. Diesel and Razor always had their trailer hitch with 1-2-3 Kid, Hogan's trailer hitch was Bischoff 'cause he was always following the big load.
Facts. The plan was for the Wolfpac to split with the NWO and become their own faction to feud with Hogan and Savage. Hogan nixed this and said "it doesn't work for me brother" but he used his creative control to start a feud with Savage instead. They split the Outsiders (which was THE dumbest move ever!!! The crowd immediately rejected it) and put Savage in the Wolfpac and Hall with NWO Holluwood. Idiots.
Exactly, people that don't place some of the blame on Hogan(along with the AOL merger) really need to see his 1998 contract renewal. Hogan was getting $675,000 just to show up on a PPV and 25% of the gate and $25,000 just for wearing a NWO tshirt plus 25% of all NWO merchandise. That kind of money insane.
Wrong hogans trailer hitch was Eddie Boulder, Eddie Golden, Eddie Hogan, Dizzy Hogan, Brutus Beefcake, Brutus the Barber Beefcake, the man with no face, Brother bruti, the clip master, the butcher, the man with no name, the zodiac, the booty man, the disciple. Baron Beefcake. Brute force.
His older shoot interviews were so much easier to follow than this podcast. Idk what happened. Maybe it's how they edit it . But it jumps all over the place .
I vaguely remember Vince Russo being on shows. Watching the documentaries the last few years I realized I went to WCW when he took over WWF and stopped watching WCW for the same reason
I love Kev, "You say that as if it's a bad thing"! Nobody brushes off an insult (even a good natured one) Like Big Sexy! I also dislike something that everyone ignores except the Outsiders is that before Sting, Warrior and Goldberg, Lex Luger beat Hogan live on Nitro. Om any discussion of Luger so-called experts denigrate Lugers inability to connect with fans and defeat Yoko for the WWE title. When in fact 5 years later he beats Hogan on free TV for the WCW World Title which is a greater achievement. I have only heard the Outsiders say that he was at his peak and massively over when he beat Hulk.
It’s funny crapping on Russo but saying he killed WCW is like saying the cashier at Blockbuster killed the business. Ultimately it comes down to whoever gave Hogan creative control and the people in charge of the network. Guys like Nash got paid whether they succeeded or not, similar to what is happening in AEW right now. Giving people like Joey Janela and Riho 6 figure contracts.
Hogan probably never signs/extends that WCW contract in the first place if they didn't legally promise him creative control. He was a massive mark for himself and even going back to WWF would power-play to keep himself at the top and avoid doing jobs.
Too many people confuse the questions "Who killed WCW?" and "Who made WCW suck?" The answer to the first question is easy: Jamie Kellner, who hated pro wrestling and would have cancelled it no matter how good the product was. There are many valid answers to the latter, including Kevin Nash. That list also includes, in no particular order, Hogan, Russo, Bischoff, and Schiavone.
This is going to sounds hilarious and unbelievable but I started watching wrestling when I saw that Arquette was champion. I never watched wrestling before that. I’ve been a fan ever since!
You can argue the finger poke of doom pros and cons as a stand alone angle, for sure: it objectively isn't an entirely horrible idea, but what I think gets overlooked is the reason it was so destructive: Goldberg. When Nash beat Goldberg at Starrcade, imagine, in theory, all that heat, power, all those wins move over to Nash as a character: he's the guy that beat the guy. To hand the strap to Hulk undermines the entire purpose of Godlberg's run, the very thing fans had invested in for 9 months. That is what was so frustrating, you disregarded their investment. That didn't generate heat, and it wasn't the concept itself, but the consequence of the angle on Goldberg. Imagine in Rocky 3 if Clubber Lang beats Rocky, he's the guy, indestructible killer - now imagine that the next fight he takes a dive for Apollo Creed. All of the heat was with Lang, his victory, he beat the guy, but that all just vanishes into quicksand the moment he takes the dive. That's why it didn't work.
Yeah, that's the problem with Goldberg. He didn't have the charisma to absorb one loss without his character dying. WCW really pushed him really hard to be the next big thing, but if he coudn't squash guys forever he was done. Guys like Rock and Scott Hall could absorb several clean losses and still be over because of their personalities. Unfortunately for WCW, Goldberg was just kind of a muscle head that didn't have that ability.
It was multiple things that killed WCW. It started with Bischoff bringing in hogan great idea but gave him creative control so hogan could veto any idea he didn’t like, Bischoff bringing in hall and Nash great again but giving creative control bad idea, Bischoff trying to be one of the boys and not being a boss was a horrible idea. Goldberg great idea and presentation not training Goldberg to work a match and go over 10 minutes bad idea because you then can’t make Goldberg the main event just to have a 5 minute match you get wwe where fans booed those matches. Now Goldberg is probably more to blame on that one since Goldberg didn’t seem to want to learn. Bringing in Russo and Ed ferrar and giving them a contract saying they are fully in charge of creative and not just having them part of creative team bad idea only good thing that came from Russo era was pushing younger talent but people with creative control stopped younger talents momentum when they went for the big belt. Giving the book to Kevin was a mistake because he is a politician and is one of the boys that’s like wwe giving the book to Shawn because Vince is burned out. Then time Warner stepping in and not wanting to have wrestling on the station ultimately killed off WCW because they wouldn’t allow WCW to be on tnt anymore so the Bischoff deal would never happen. It started with Bischoff and ended with time Warner simple. You all killed WCW
Honestly by the time Arquette won the title WCW was irredeemable anyway. The Fingerpoke of Doom happened at a point where even though WWF had turned the tide you didn't feel like WCW was beyond saving.
His argument seems to be "bad creative decisions were going to hurt business in the short term, but just like WWF, that could be turned around given time. Corporate accounting decisions during the downturn killed it."
10:11 I COMPLETELY agree with you Kevin! This show was produced by Rock and how ironic they push this narrative leaving a bunch of shit out yet who's in and always been in business for himself?? Rock! Who wasn't even there but couldn't just produce a show without inserting himself
The “Fingerpoke of Doom” has to be the defining event. Everyone in the comments admits they turned off WCW and changed their allegiance to the WWF. Imagine how history would have changed if Hogan and Nash went out there and instead of that fingerpoke bullshit, they had a good match? Since WCW knew the outcome of Raw, they could have made Nitro a night to remember and that could have changed how we view Mick Foley’s. Maybe people would be talking about Hogan/Nash instead of changing the channel and watching Foley win. But it tells you how arrogant everyone was at WCW. They were probably like “Oh, Foley’s winning the belt? No one wants to watch that shit, we can coast it today.”
Bash really thinks that the on screen product didn’t contribute to the failure of WCW? He’s delusional if he genuinely believes that. The decline of the quality of the product is what caused people to turn over to the WWF - whether that be Arquette as champion, Russo as champion or the finger poke of doom - the latter of which didn’t work, the only heat it got was “go away” heat. There wasn’t one thing or incident which killed WCW, it was a combination of high level business incompetence, backstage idiocy and creative disasters.
What people seem to forget is that WCW wasn't killed by Russo, the fingerpoke or Arquette as champion. It was killed by Time Warner. It was killed by the executives who never wanted WCW on their network because it was tacky. It was killed because Ted Turner wasn't there to protect his passion project. Had Turner still been around, WCW would have survived most of that nonsense like they had done things like Black Scorpion and Jim Herd for a while longer.
Finger poke was confusing. It wasn’t really the worst thing or even top 5 in a company that made a character imitating Jim Ross’s Bells Palsy and Judy Bagwell as tag champ. Viagra on a pole match? It’s all worse
Kevin in my personal opion Yes Vince Russo is the real reason WCW had ended the way it did and Arquette becoming the face was so stupid and vince russo putting the belt on himself was a horrible booking. at the tail end of WCW
Crossover press doesn't help if it kills your actual fanbase, and the crossover press doesn't bring in new fans to replace the ones who left! What killed WCW is the people in WCW management didn't want to be in wrestling, but wanted mainstream fame. Eric Bishoff, Russo, and many others behind the scenes in the Turner TV office. I had been a fan since Crockett owned it and I watched every Saturday night at 605 from as far back as I can remember and when they went to TNT on Mondays I watched. I had been a little disheartened when WCW brought in Hogan and started cartooning up the NWA style of wrestling. Now there is a whole generation who have grown up not seeing good kayfabe NWA style wrestling that you knew was a work but was so good that anyone could suspend their disbelief for long enough to enjoy WCW. It died in 1995 when Hogan came in and refused to be a team player.
It was already going down the tubes. Russo had some bad ideas but he was trying to get other talented guys over as opposed to pushing old names again. I think Russo is a convenient scapegoat for the downfall. All these overhyped guys still hung on to glory and also flushed AEW down the drain too - don't act like they weren't part of the problem.
I think maybe the "fingerpoke of doom" was annoying to WCW audiences was because of the sheer number of Dusty finishes and other screwy finishes. It was like conditioning and people were getting tired of being swerved, so when the fingerpoke happened, they got mad. WWE did almost exactly the same thing with Hunter and Shawn and nobody even remembers their fake match for the European title. I think the big difference is the Hunter and Shawn ran the ropes and acted overly goofy and entertained people and they stopped caring. WCW just seemed like the finish was depriving them of a cool match rather than being a goofy "buddy comedy". It just felt more like the typical NWO run-ins and other swerves. It was getting old to the fans, because I was one of them.
All respect to Nash, but he seems to feel like there's no such thing as "bad heat." Any heat they got was good for business because people were paying attention...but then there is the OTHER kind of heat, which caused people, like me, to just stop tuning in on a weekly basis. When Hogan joined the Outsiders, THAT was good heat! I was hooked! When Nash literally laid down and they reformed the nWo for the...I dunno...3rd time. I just didn't care anymore. Good heat vs bad heat is a real argument.
IMHO piss poor management and lack of good leadership killed WCW, and having the inmates also trying to run things was just the grease on the rails to doom for WCW.
WCW was doing horribly way before Russo showed up. It was pretty much just more of the same as when it was Eric Bischoff was calling he shots. Remember the KISS promotion?
countering a main event, in which mankind beats the rock to win the WWF title from the corporation, with a return of stone cold steve austin, with the "finger poke of doom", is nasty work.
The top of the card was always all over the place, even before the fingerpoke. mid card was nearly the best thing about WCW. I blame Russo, Flair, Hogan, Piper and David A
Nash thinks the segments don't cause ratings drops lol. Everyone can blame the merger but Bischoff says the merger began in August of 98. They lost the war already at that point. They had one more show that outperformed WWE ratings and it was because they had to re-air a PPV that cut out. The tide had turned, and they had absolutely no answers. Yes, they were still making money and could stick around for a few more years, but the downfall was inevitable. They never developed new characters the way WWE did. Other than Goldberg, they were bringing out the exact same storylines they had been doing since 97. Zero creativity beyond the NWO and the entire company revolved around maybe 5 guys. WWE lost their top two guys (Hart and Michaels) and built even bigger ones. They had stories and characters from the top to the bottom of their roster. All WCW had was WWE's characters and once they got tired, WCW had nothing. The downfall was inevitable, merger or not.
People just whine about shit Russo did they didn't approve that didn't lead to any ratings or business decrease. Compare September 98 to September 99, every metric fell off a cliff but no one mentions that, it was before Russo got there! After Russo left in January every metric fell off for the next 2 months, nobody mentions that. Love you Kev, the finger poke was the shits and put WCW back into the same old LOLNWOWINS that had happened for 2 and a half years at that point, it wasn't the territories, that shit got tiresome. Kev was not a good booker
Corporate Rock, hoe-gin, nwo, bishoff and timewarner killed it. russo increased ratings slightly during both of his runs. if you say it was russo, you’re a mark who listens to people like keller, meltzer, cornette, etc etc.
If we HAVE to boil down the demise of WCW to a solitary reason...the inmates were running the asylum. They caught fire at the oppotune moment and it eventually burned down the building.
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I was extremely loyal to WCW. Sat front row. Anything near Tampa I was at. Even when it was bad I stuck with it. The David Arquette bit, I shut it off and never came back.
You weren't wavering around mid 98? WCW was a slowly sinking ship after Starcade 97. They didn't know what to do with the NWO or the cruiserweights. Really, anyone outside of constantly pushing Hogan and Goldberg. I definitely understand about the NWO because that phenomenon was printing money, but they didn't have a plan. It was bad. Really bad
I checked out when they put the belt on Benoit. That was the death of the company. Imagine WWF putting the belt on Funaki, same kind of deal.
I feel like he should've been a midcard champion like Logan Paul. WWE did right with Paul by making him a midcarder. But a headliner? No.
@@handsolo1209 WWE did put the title on Benoit, him and Eddy at Wrestlemania after winning is one of the most well remembered moments of the 2000's. I mean seriously was Sid gonna draw any money at that point? How many times had he been back and forth and he never moved the needle for either company.
@@cb3648 Sid was always a draw. Granted by 2000 he was on the slide, but he was still a big name. Benoit couldn't draw flies. Eddie is the worst drawing champion in WWE history. Hogan slamming Andre at WM3 is a well remembered moment. Benoit and Eddie winning titles is only remembered by the marks. WCW putting the belt on the dictionary definition of midcarder killed the belt completely. Ric Flair, Vader, Sting, Hogan, Savage, Goldberg, then that charisma vacuum...
No, Arquette winning the belt was not part of any movie deal. Having Arquette on Nitro to promote the movie was the deal.
Oh damn, you obviously were involved in ironing out the details behind the scenes bc I never missed Nitro at the time and knew all a fan could know so you must be an insider bc if an average fan says this they're just a corny douche.
@@FURTHER_ADO don't defend this decision. Russo decided on it, it's on HIM.
You'd know right? Not the guy who was there.
@@philnicholson7863 That's who I got it from, goober.
@@BrianOBrien5150 which guy?
The ironic thing is, the finger poke of doom was also "go away, turn the channel and never come back heat"
Facts. I was thinking the same thing 😆. For him to realize that it would require accountability
Finger poke was bad but they still had decent ratings they just couldn't beat Raw, the Fxxk this show heat started when Jericho dipped and later Raven and the Radical had Shane Douglas not gotten scared and Bruce prichard not been clueless WCW could've possibly ended by 2000
I remember being very angry with that first fingerpoke. The crowd was very angry too. Nash pats himself on the back for that train wreck! Nash beating goldberg for title, i remember fans were cheering for nash winning. I also at the time was happy nash won.
Beat me to it. Was just coming to say it.
For sure. Helped me not watch Nitro again
The aol merger was what killed wcw when Ted turner lost control of the company
They need to make a documentary about the GOOD of WCW. It's always about the bad, the nWo got too big, the Starccade '97 finish, the Warrior's WCW run, the finger-poke of doom, Bash at the Beach 2000, David Arquette, etc. WCW had millions of viewers each week, there was a lot of good there to keep them watching each week. Instead of talking about Starcadde '97 over and over again, talk about the much better Hogan/Sting rematch at SuperBrawl. Talk about the great Savage/DDP fued. Talk about the Outsiders' feuds with Harlem Heat or the Steiners. Talk about Scott Steiner's transformation into one of the best heel characters of all time. Talk about how WCW was able to get even Lex Luger over, to the point he beat Hogan for the belt. The creative geniuses in WWE were never able to get Lex over to that degree. WWE was doing a lot of trash during the Monday Night Wars, too. But you never hear them talking about something like Beaver Cleavage as much as you hear them talking about GI Bro.
I'm gonna poo poo on one of those. Lex Luger was not over. The pop for that was because Hogan lost, not because Luger won.
It was largely bad. Not a good show at all.
Could mention that kick ass cruiserweight division that was full of young talent... ahead of its time
Didn't really matter Hogan won the belt back 5 days later
History is written by the winners. There are some good podcasts out there about those things.
I remember the finger poke being turn the channel heat, only because I think it felt like as a kid, the good guys were losing too much and the babyface Nash and Wolfpack was so cool at the time, it was one of the reasons I was watching.
Russo wasn't there for Starrcade 97. Russo wasn't there for Finger poke of Doom. Russo wasn't there when they signed Hulk Hogan or Ultimate Warrior. As far as I'm concerned WCW was done for even before Russo.
The fingerpoke is what made me leave for good. Was it the worst thing they did? No, but it was just the first thing that was bad enough to get hundreds of thousands to bail. Kinda tired of Nash trying to defend the finger poke by pointing out that something else was worse after the fingerpoke happened.
Where are you getting your numbers from because WCW was still doing high 5.0 ratings up until mid 99.
@@machosavage4194 Take notice though, the ratings fully dropped off after the Nwo white B team was completely dismantled and never built back up with a new leader..proving the real interest was in the NWO Civil war over seeing the same old WcW vs Nwo AGAIN. That was the real major damage of the Finger Poke, it changed the landscape backwards to being boring and predicable again.
Yeah because nothing stupid happened before th3 finger poke of doom. 😂
Nash doesn’t care. It’s like he said, he got paid no matter what.
@@rofbagging9749 He didn't grow up a wrestling fan. He got into wrestling because he couldn't play basketball anymore.
No one talks about what Russo did in his first 3 months. To my knowledge there’s no video summarizing what he did during this period. Being a kid at the time, I remember being very fond of this period (the Powers that Be, pushing the Filthy Animals, pushing Benoit, having Hart beat Benoit for the title, the La Parka gimmick)
It did not quite turn me away but it was making me start to think of Turning Away. I was definitely watching a lot more WWF at that time anyway butt I feel like I remember the world title Tournament being shortly after he started and that shit made me gag because I had high hopes for it going in
I do not like Russo, but WCW was pure dreck of rehash from the Finger poke until Russo came in. I found out later that they finally did Hogan vs Nash but Hogan was back in the red and yellow.....again. I would argue that the first nine months of 1999 was worse than anything Russo did in 2000.
This guy out here still defending the finger poke of doom! 😂😂😂
He doesn’t know what an adjective is
Or a verb @@andrewmartinez9992
The poke made the whole show a joke and the booking killed the show
Compared to the bullshit that came later, the finger poke of doom wasn't that bad since it was scripted as a storyline landmark for the reunification of the NWO.
However, it also became a landmark of WCW's decline when you combine it to the other things that happened that very same night.
It was turn off tv heat and never come back.
Kevin blaming a TV executive who wasn't a wrestler for the demise of WCW is just as bad as him downplaying how stupid the finger poke of doom truly was.
The tv executive who set up prohibitions on their content and gutting their budget?
No the Finger Poke was worse because it ruined a downright amazing storyline! By the time Russo got to WcW nobody cared about the product.
The Finger Poke didn't work AT ALL!
Half the WcW crowd hated Hogan and Goldberg alike, after the FPOD we had literally no one to root for and The Nwo Civil War combined with WcW 3 way battle was far more suspenseful and interesting than seeing WcW vs the old Nwo again.
People who say "the ratings didn't fall off until a month after the Finger Poke" neglected to notice or even mention the ratings fully dropped off after the Nwo B team was completely dismantled and never built back up proving my point.
I may be a bit off topic, I'll take that when time passed after the FPOD that Hogan got his Karma when Jeff Jarrett laid down at Bash then Booker getting the title..
Arquette winning the belt was the nail in the coffin for me. I was barely hanging on to WCW at that point, the Goldberg streak bothered me, simply because it should have been someone else kevin didn't need it. Finger poke of doom... didn't bother me a bit, that was an old school heat move, how many times has someone laid down, gave up, or just sold the belt for a title change, DiBiase made a career out of it.
Kinda funny on Nash beating Goldberg because Nash didn't need it. It's amazing how similar of a situation that is to Brock beating Taker at Wrestlemania.
Goldberg losing the title was the start of the downfall, then the finger poke happened right after, there were 40 thousand fans at the Georgia dome that night to see Nash vs Goldberg rematch but hogan abused his "creative control " and made it hogan vs Nash and basically handed himself the title, ppl were pissed
Goldberg should of never won that title
Kevin acts like the failure of WCW had nothing to do with what was put on the screen. Then why did the ratings drop? Why were fans bored with WCW and watching WWF instead? Were all the viewers concerned with Nitro's budget, or network interference, or other behind-the-scenes drama? Of course not. The product on their TV screen was getting worse and worse, for whatever reason, and they tuned out.
January 4 1999. Not the poke. The fact that mankind winning was one of the greatest moments in WWE history. The pop that stone cold got running out. I've never seen an audience more enraptured in any sport...ever.
He’s indicating you can eventually overcome bad booking, you can’t overcome Turner executives not wanting wrestling on their networks
This is the most logical and level headed take I've heard from a wrestling fan on this topic. People (especially fans of WCW) love to write their own head cannon. The product on TV was shit. Simple
@@mikelindner2646 Turner executives were more comfortable keeping WCW on their networks when it had high ratings, was beating WWF, and could sell tons of advertising and merchandise. Whether they liked wrestling or not, it was good business. When the fan base started to leave because of the bad matches and storylines there was little reason to keep it afloat.
I don't entirely disagree with this, but, if you were to ask me who killed WCW, the verb that I am focusing on is "kill", as in end, or terminate. I'd say AOL/Time Warner, that's who truly killed WCW, not Russo, not Bischoff, not the "finger poke of doom" and I'm sure you could think of alot more, think about it rationally and logically, all of those are wrestling people/events, in some way shape or form, specifically WCW wrestling.
People associated with the company (why would they want to kill their own company???) or something that happened in one of their shows. Yes, you can make an argument, the ratings were down, WWF were burying them in the ratings blah blah. The truth is that maybe the company still would have been around today? doubtful but it would have gone on a bit longer then it did had AOL/Time Warner took it off the air and allowed it to get bought out by WWE, or, as I understood it, they sold it to WWE, so that was the nail in the coffin, it doesn't matter how many wrestling people or "heads" or "suits" in WCW who "didn't know what they were doing" or "poorly managed" and "bad angles" "egos" "politics", again, all of that is WRESTLING related, we're talking about the death of the company, AOL/Time Warner is responsible for that, I don't think it mattered that WCW were getting high ratings, as Dallas has been quoted saying "Yeah but it's your highest rated show", the fact of the matter is, they did not want wrestling on the Turner Networks any more, so they killed it by selling it, to WWE as it were, it's not a hard question to answer folks, if you just stop and use your brain and think it through.
WCW was already dead when Russo got there
Bischoff last show did a 4.1. If you think that’s dead, I don’t know what to tell you
@@michaelmartino16 Russo was only there 3 months
@@blocc316 he was there for 11 months
@@TingTong2568 3
The botched Hogan-Sting match, hotshotting the title from Hogan to Goldberg on Nitro, and the fingerpoke PPV together helped kill it.
Sean:"you got a face full of balls"
Kev: "You say that like it's a bad thing"
I came here to see if anyone caught that.
“He kicked out on 2 and half.”
@@Unclejack328 he did
@@CLuvTravels 😂
@@everydayshowday5151 I never miss ball humor
I feel like ive seen a version of this video 1000 times already but i still cant get enough lmfaooo
Once that logo got changed to the Star Trek logo then the VCR stopped recording WCW.
That logo change took the feeling away of wrestling that didn’t sit well.
Hated the new wcw logo & intro music. 1995-1998 nitro set & music were perfect for the program.
What killed WCW was Bischoff and company’s failure to see beyond the NWO. Bret Hart was picked up from WWF, in the midst of the beginnings of the attitude era and they couldn’t come up with a proper way to present him and pit him against Hogan, a match I see as important and appealing as Hogan- Flair when hogan first debuted in WCW. They dropped the ball big time
Not nwo but Hogan's creative control screwed it all. Eric was amazing but blurred the lines with friendship.
So basically bad writing and booking
Bischoff is nothing more than a one trick pony. The fact that Cornette fanboys won't even acknowledge what Bischoff did to ruin TNA by rehashing the NWO with Aces & Eights only because Bischoff has trash talked Russo shows that wrestling fanboys are worse than Disney shills.
Flair carried Hogan in ALL of their matches, and jobbed to him in probably 95% of them. That's why Hogan loved working with him.
While Bret would have likely jobbed to Hogan, Hogan knew Bret wouldn't have made him look good, and thus Hogan V Bret in WCW would have never happened no matter what.
Hell, even if you keep Bret away from Hulk because Hulk won't job, or you keep him away from Goidberg because of the streak and not wanting to job Bret... there's a ton of good upper card feuds they could have run with Bret (esp Flair!). But they just didn't do anything with him, until they let Goldberg kill his career for no real reason.
What's up with the annoying chop editing that seems to be the trendy thing in video podcasts?
They should've discussed Kev's legendary episode doing commentary on thunder. Old glory leg drop! Lex is terrified of skeletons!
If you know the date of that episode please let us know
Hogdipper @@CLuvTravels
That was right after he was dropped as booker. Yeah, he had some salt for everybody that night 😂
Hogan destroyed WCW.
His ego & creative control killed the company.
I would have liked to see Hall, Nash, DDP and Raven form a faction with them working with each other early in wcw Diamond Studd, Scotty Flamingo, And Vinnie Vegas
Everyone seems to forget when Rousseau was there the ratings went up a point and a half.. and when they hired Vince Russo they want to make WCW more like WWF attitude era.... But I wish they would have gotten clearance corporate executives sponsors that WCW we're going to turn into Jerry Springer style professional wrestling like the attitude era.... He was hired to do a job but the good old boys backstage didn't like it.... And I'm grateful that he started pushing the mid Carders and he also pushed Bret Hart and started utilizing him more.... And he pushed hulk Hogan out of the nest.
You are straight up lying.
"Never had a problem with Russo"
Only his poor booking and writing
Just proves Vince needed a filter and Eric wasn’t a good one. Vince McMahon had more experience at spotting bad ideas since he also made those mistakes early on in wwf. Eric didn’t have enough time to get the same experience.
@@JackCrossSama How many times do need to point out the fact that McMahon tanked his own company for 25+ years for you to know that he's not this "great filter" that you think he is? LMAO and you wonder why people outside the wrestling bubble view you wrestling fanboys as worse than Disney shills.
@@avalond1193 How so when his writing brought success? Explain.
Anything on a pole matches were the worst
The crazy thing is Hulk loved the finger poke but when Jarrett just took the fall, Hulk sued.😂😂😂
Well, Hulk was actually fine with Jarrett laying down. What he wasn't fine with was Russo going on the mic and changing everything on TV after he left the building. That's what he sued over.
That doesn't work for me brother
It all boils down to Time/Warner not wanting wrestling on TBS and TNT
Maybe they would've wanted it, if it wasn't costing them Millions.
Why would you keep a company that lost 60 million in a year ?
@@kanedasrifleover all they also made more money
@@TheHardys01there were people who didn’t want WCW at all. That they lost $60 million dollars is just evidence that they were right.
@@TheHardys01 Maybe you should've learn the fact that they were embarrassed by wrestling even when it was making money, little boy.
A lot of hardcore "smart marks" think Russo booked the "finger poke of doom"- he wasn't there yet.
Just like many of them think that he booked Mae Young giving birth to a hand
Nash is so insightful. I don't always agree, but I always appreciate his point of view. "Owen got cross-over press." Talk about shutting down an argument.
Took half of Eric’s budget for WCW in 99’ and oh btw that money was already spent. That’s a big reason why 99’ became such an incredible mess.
Why call out Finger poke of death but never call out Shawn Michael's lying down and letting Triple H pin him for the European Title.
They do it ALL THE TIME...
How can Nash forget about Arquette being champion?
It was one of the most memorable things that happened in WCW!😅
Nash only cared that his check was on time lol
@@markellzey1531 And he'll probably admit to that too!
Lol
☘️🚬💉🍻 is why he doesn't remember.
@@thomasludlow8680 He just about says it in this episode too.
Nice interview yesterday
Sean Oliver really hates Konnan
Do you know the backstory? Konnan took his money then fucked off on him for an interview for one of his interview series (i think YouShoot, but don't quote me)
I think there's a bit more to it (and not in the "oh maybe Konnan's side has a point" kind of way), but I can't remember it all.
Suffice to say, very scummy.
@@mightilyoats2729 I know it well
I do, too.
I just watched Starrcade 98 a couple nights ago and people went crazy for Nashs win
Tony Schiavone killed WCW. they never said Arquette winning was part of the promotion for the movie, Tony Schiavone pitched the idea and not someone form WB
people have to sign off on that. Give the man a break for just having an idea. We all have ideas. For them to become reality numerous people have to sign off on them.
I have my doubts on Tony being the one to pitch that. Russo is notorious for lying. I'd love to hear from Tony to see if he pitched that. I'll have to listen to the next WHW podcast and get through the 3rd grade humor to see if it's addressed.
@@markellzey1531It has already been addressed on What Happened When..? I believe in the “Ready to Rumble” episode.
@@EvaFull Ah I will have to check on that. Thank you.
@@markellzey1531 Tony has stated a number of times that it was his idea
I knew David was not gonna hold it long and that he was promoting a movie. I didn't mind. Plus, cool, a fan experiencing winning the belt.
It's not the finger poke by itself that was so bad but the fact it killed the biggest thing wcw had going with the nwo rivalry because hogan was insecure the red was more over and wouldn't do business
What a perfect thing to end on after heated discussion! 😂😂😂
That whole color & booker T thing at the end……well played sir 😂😂😂😂😂😂
I seem to remember Kev once said of 99-00 WCW that a lot was going on that didn't make sense, but when you get that paycheck every two weeks, does it have to? That sums up a lot of what was wrong with the company at the time.
It was the exact opposite of the problem with pre-Attitude WWF. The latter had virtually no guaranteed money and you were killing yourself for too little money, but in WCW everyone was guaranteed way too much money and main eventers could quickly get themselves insta-raises just from having another peer walk through the door. Neither approach could work long term for opposing reasons.
I will forever blame "That Doesn't Work For Me, Brother" Hogan and his little "Yes Man" Eric Bischoff for killing WCW. Diesel and Razor always had their trailer hitch with 1-2-3 Kid, Hogan's trailer hitch was Bischoff 'cause he was always following the big load.
Facts. The plan was for the Wolfpac to split with the NWO and become their own faction to feud with Hogan and Savage. Hogan nixed this and said "it doesn't work for me brother" but he used his creative control to start a feud with Savage instead. They split the Outsiders (which was THE dumbest move ever!!! The crowd immediately rejected it) and put Savage in the Wolfpac and Hall with NWO Holluwood. Idiots.
Exactly, people that don't place some of the blame on Hogan(along with the AOL merger) really need to see his 1998 contract renewal. Hogan was getting $675,000 just to show up on a PPV and 25% of the gate and $25,000 just for wearing a NWO tshirt plus 25% of all NWO merchandise. That kind of money insane.
Wrong hogans trailer hitch was Eddie Boulder, Eddie Golden, Eddie Hogan, Dizzy Hogan, Brutus Beefcake, Brutus the Barber Beefcake, the man with no face, Brother bruti, the clip master, the butcher, the man with no name, the zodiac, the booty man, the disciple. Baron Beefcake. Brute force.
Why wont Nash talk about his influence in HTM's firing from WCW??
Also Sullivan put the belt on benoit. Kinda hard to see how getting the world title is going to bury the guy
Actually, the Title Reign you mentioned Kevin was ending Booker's first reign and lost it days later at New Blood Rising back to Booker.
It feels like a chore to listen to Big Lazy
His older shoot interviews were so much easier to follow than this podcast. Idk what happened. Maybe it's how they edit it . But it jumps all over the place .
I vaguely remember Vince Russo being on shows. Watching the documentaries the last few years I realized I went to WCW when he took over WWF and stopped watching WCW for the same reason
I love Kev, "You say that as if it's a bad thing"! Nobody brushes off an insult (even a good natured one) Like Big Sexy!
I also dislike something that everyone ignores except the Outsiders is that before Sting, Warrior and Goldberg, Lex Luger beat Hogan live on Nitro.
Om any discussion of Luger so-called experts denigrate Lugers inability to connect with fans and defeat Yoko for the WWE title. When in fact 5 years later he beats Hogan on free TV for the WCW World Title which is a greater achievement. I have only heard the Outsiders say that he was at his peak and massively over when he beat Hulk.
It’s funny crapping on Russo but saying he killed WCW is like saying the cashier at Blockbuster killed the business. Ultimately it comes down to whoever gave Hogan creative control and the people in charge of the network. Guys like Nash got paid whether they succeeded or not, similar to what is happening in AEW right now. Giving people like Joey Janela and Riho 6 figure contracts.
Hogan probably never signs/extends that WCW contract in the first place if they didn't legally promise him creative control. He was a massive mark for himself and even going back to WWF would power-play to keep himself at the top and avoid doing jobs.
Too many people confuse the questions "Who killed WCW?" and "Who made WCW suck?" The answer to the first question is easy: Jamie Kellner, who hated pro wrestling and would have cancelled it no matter how good the product was. There are many valid answers to the latter, including Kevin Nash. That list also includes, in no particular order, Hogan, Russo, Bischoff, and Schiavone.
Not Schiavone he was just told what to say
If anything bumped up Ready to Rumble it was John Cenas uncredited cameo
This is going to sounds hilarious and unbelievable but I started watching wrestling when I saw that Arquette was champion. I never watched wrestling before that. I’ve been a fan ever since!
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
“It gave Turn the channel Heat”-The guy behind the Fingerpoke of Doom
You can argue the finger poke of doom pros and cons as a stand alone angle, for sure: it objectively isn't an entirely horrible idea, but what I think gets overlooked is the reason it was so destructive: Goldberg.
When Nash beat Goldberg at Starrcade, imagine, in theory, all that heat, power, all those wins move over to Nash as a character: he's the guy that beat the guy. To hand the strap to Hulk undermines the entire purpose of Godlberg's run, the very thing fans had invested in for 9 months. That is what was so frustrating, you disregarded their investment. That didn't generate heat, and it wasn't the concept itself, but the consequence of the angle on Goldberg.
Imagine in Rocky 3 if Clubber Lang beats Rocky, he's the guy, indestructible killer - now imagine that the next fight he takes a dive for Apollo Creed. All of the heat was with Lang, his victory, he beat the guy, but that all just vanishes into quicksand the moment he takes the dive. That's why it didn't work.
Shortly after Goldberg losing his first match is when I checked out.
Yeah, that's the problem with Goldberg. He didn't have the charisma to absorb one loss without his character dying. WCW really pushed him really hard to be the next big thing, but if he coudn't squash guys forever he was done. Guys like Rock and Scott Hall could absorb several clean losses and still be over because of their personalities. Unfortunately for WCW, Goldberg was just kind of a muscle head that didn't have that ability.
Nash has literally said in interviews that he stopped helping when they fired Waltman.
It was multiple things that killed WCW. It started with Bischoff bringing in hogan great idea but gave him creative control so hogan could veto any idea he didn’t like, Bischoff bringing in hall and Nash great again but giving creative control bad idea, Bischoff trying to be one of the boys and not being a boss was a horrible idea. Goldberg great idea and presentation not training Goldberg to work a match and go over 10 minutes bad idea because you then can’t make Goldberg the main event just to have a 5 minute match you get wwe where fans booed those matches. Now Goldberg is probably more to blame on that one since Goldberg didn’t seem to want to learn. Bringing in Russo and Ed ferrar and giving them a contract saying they are fully in charge of creative and not just having them part of creative team bad idea only good thing that came from Russo era was pushing younger talent but people with creative control stopped younger talents momentum when they went for the big belt. Giving the book to Kevin was a mistake because he is a politician and is one of the boys that’s like wwe giving the book to Shawn because Vince is burned out. Then time Warner stepping in and not wanting to have wrestling on the station ultimately killed off WCW because they wouldn’t allow WCW to be on tnt anymore so the Bischoff deal would never happen. It started with Bischoff and ended with time Warner simple. You all killed WCW
Booker T wants nothing to do with the producers after Who Killed WCW? series.
Honestly by the time Arquette won the title WCW was irredeemable anyway. The Fingerpoke of Doom happened at a point where even though WWF had turned the tide you didn't feel like WCW was beyond saving.
Ridiculous. Wrestling Fans would blame Vince Russo for car accidents if they could. I know who killed WCW…. Vincent K McMahon Jr.
Then he killed his own product.
I can't listen to Nash anymore. He's incomprehensible and desultory.
Nice vocab.
REST IN PEACE 🙏 🪦 WWE LEGEND SIKA PASS AWAY AGE 79
His argument seems to be "bad creative decisions were going to hurt business in the short term, but just like WWF, that could be turned around given time. Corporate accounting decisions during the downturn killed it."
10:11 I COMPLETELY agree with you Kevin! This show was produced by Rock and how ironic they push this narrative leaving a bunch of shit out yet who's in and always been in business for himself?? Rock! Who wasn't even there but couldn't just produce a show without inserting himself
Crossover press is irrelevant if it pisses off the people who actually watch your show.
Excellent video
GB getting tased by hall and pinned by Nash pissed me off. The finger poke of dome is when I tapped out and watched wwf and never came back to wcw….
They had creative control so they kept mid card down. Bishof never changed formulas
Hulk said vince weighed in at 465 and was 7 feet tall. That's why nobody superplexed him off the balcony.
The “Fingerpoke of Doom” has to be the defining event. Everyone in the comments admits they turned off WCW and changed their allegiance to the WWF. Imagine how history would have changed if Hogan and Nash went out there and instead of that fingerpoke bullshit, they had a good match?
Since WCW knew the outcome of Raw, they could have made Nitro a night to remember and that could have changed how we view Mick Foley’s. Maybe people would be talking about Hogan/Nash instead of changing the channel and watching Foley win. But it tells you how arrogant everyone was at WCW. They were probably like “Oh, Foley’s winning the belt? No one wants to watch that shit, we can coast it today.”
Bash really thinks that the on screen product didn’t contribute to the failure of WCW? He’s delusional if he genuinely believes that. The decline of the quality of the product is what caused people to turn over to the WWF - whether that be Arquette as champion, Russo as champion or the finger poke of doom - the latter of which didn’t work, the only heat it got was “go away” heat. There wasn’t one thing or incident which killed WCW, it was a combination of high level business incompetence, backstage idiocy and creative disasters.
7:58 of course they're not gonna mention the Sullivan/Benoit connection! They cannot have the truth come out
What people seem to forget is that WCW wasn't killed by Russo, the fingerpoke or Arquette as champion.
It was killed by Time Warner. It was killed by the executives who never wanted WCW on their network because it was tacky. It was killed because Ted Turner wasn't there to protect his passion project. Had Turner still been around, WCW would have survived most of that nonsense like they had done things like Black Scorpion and Jim Herd for a while longer.
I think the thing we can't know is was wcw gonna be cancelled regardless? Or if they turned a profit in 99-2000 would tnt keep them?
Please don´t get angry at me, Mr. Nash. I think the finger poke of doom was genius.
Turn the channel... Gotta be one of the colder wrestling terms.
Finger poke was confusing. It wasn’t really the worst thing or even top 5 in a company that made a character imitating Jim Ross’s Bells Palsy and Judy Bagwell as tag champ. Viagra on a pole match? It’s all worse
Kevin in my personal opion Yes Vince Russo is the real reason WCW had ended the way it did and Arquette becoming the face was so stupid and vince russo putting the belt on himself was a horrible booking. at the tail end of WCW
Crossover press doesn't help if it kills your actual fanbase, and the crossover press doesn't bring in new fans to replace the ones who left! What killed WCW is the people in WCW management didn't want to be in wrestling, but wanted mainstream fame. Eric Bishoff, Russo, and many others behind the scenes in the Turner TV office. I had been a fan since Crockett owned it and I watched every Saturday night at 605 from as far back as I can remember and when they went to TNT on Mondays I watched. I had been a little disheartened when WCW brought in Hogan and started cartooning up the NWA style of wrestling. Now there is a whole generation who have grown up not seeing good kayfabe NWA style wrestling that you knew was a work but was so good that anyone could suspend their disbelief for long enough to enjoy WCW. It died in 1995 when Hogan came in and refused to be a team player.
It was already going down the tubes. Russo had some bad ideas but he was trying to get other talented guys over as opposed to pushing old names again. I think Russo is a convenient scapegoat for the downfall. All these overhyped guys still hung on to glory and also flushed AEW down the drain too - don't act like they weren't part of the problem.
I think maybe the "fingerpoke of doom" was annoying to WCW audiences was because of the sheer number of Dusty finishes and other screwy finishes. It was like conditioning and people were getting tired of being swerved, so when the fingerpoke happened, they got mad. WWE did almost exactly the same thing with Hunter and Shawn and nobody even remembers their fake match for the European title. I think the big difference is the Hunter and Shawn ran the ropes and acted overly goofy and entertained people and they stopped caring. WCW just seemed like the finish was depriving them of a cool match rather than being a goofy "buddy comedy". It just felt more like the typical NWO run-ins and other swerves. It was getting old to the fans, because I was one of them.
All respect to Nash, but he seems to feel like there's no such thing as "bad heat." Any heat they got was good for business because people were paying attention...but then there is the OTHER kind of heat, which caused people, like me, to just stop tuning in on a weekly basis. When Hogan joined the Outsiders, THAT was good heat! I was hooked! When Nash literally laid down and they reformed the nWo for the...I dunno...3rd time. I just didn't care anymore. Good heat vs bad heat is a real argument.
Fall Brawl 2000 is actually a good PPV, even by 2001-2002 standards, so go watch it if you haven't.
Goldberg va Steiner was a great rivalry
IMHO piss poor management and lack of good leadership killed WCW, and having the inmates also trying to run things was just the grease on the rails to doom for WCW.
Owen got a much different kind of crossover press
WCW was doing horribly way before Russo showed up. It was pretty much just more of the same as when it was Eric Bischoff was calling he shots. Remember the KISS promotion?
I love Kevin Nash 🍻
“Burn a bag of puppies gets cross over press”😂😂😂😂😂💯
I was worried about this show being The Rock spinning the block for Vince
This podcast is now just slowly watching Kevin Nash lose his mind.
countering a main event, in which mankind beats the rock to win the WWF title from the corporation, with a return of stone cold steve austin, with the "finger poke of doom", is nasty work.
I preferred finger poke of doom story...wwf was boring
The top of the card was always all over the place, even before the fingerpoke. mid card was nearly the best thing about WCW. I blame Russo, Flair, Hogan, Piper and David A
Nash thinks the segments don't cause ratings drops lol. Everyone can blame the merger but Bischoff says the merger began in August of 98. They lost the war already at that point. They had one more show that outperformed WWE ratings and it was because they had to re-air a PPV that cut out. The tide had turned, and they had absolutely no answers. Yes, they were still making money and could stick around for a few more years, but the downfall was inevitable. They never developed new characters the way WWE did. Other than Goldberg, they were bringing out the exact same storylines they had been doing since 97. Zero creativity beyond the NWO and the entire company revolved around maybe 5 guys. WWE lost their top two guys (Hart and Michaels) and built even bigger ones. They had stories and characters from the top to the bottom of their roster. All WCW had was WWE's characters and once they got tired, WCW had nothing. The downfall was inevitable, merger or not.
It_is_a_tel-a-vision-show BRO!
People just whine about shit Russo did they didn't approve that didn't lead to any ratings or business decrease. Compare September 98 to September 99, every metric fell off a cliff but no one mentions that, it was before Russo got there! After Russo left in January every metric fell off for the next 2 months, nobody mentions that.
Love you Kev, the finger poke was the shits and put WCW back into the same old LOLNWOWINS that had happened for 2 and a half years at that point, it wasn't the territories, that shit got tiresome. Kev was not a good booker
Corporate Rock, hoe-gin, nwo, bishoff and timewarner killed it. russo increased ratings slightly during both of his runs. if you say it was russo, you’re a mark who listens to people like keller, meltzer, cornette, etc etc.
Finger Poke of doom was the Beginning of the end IMO 👍🏼
If we HAVE to boil down the demise of WCW to a solitary reason...the inmates were running the asylum. They caught fire at the oppotune moment and it eventually burned down the building.
Lee Harvey Oswald is like I never shot anyone.