Thank you all for watching! This is a redo of sorts, in the sense that I have covered this story in the past. I've just added some details and some different visuals.
@ImportantNavalHistory It was an excellent job covering a little known bit of history. Truly a heroic move by the captain having his ship torpedoed. Many would have been tempted to keep trying to save it fearing for their careers. He was more concerned for the nearby town. We'll done, good sir!
The Royal Navy in the 20th century was always about quantity over quality. British ships tended to be like British cars: unreliable deathtraps. The vast majority of British ship designs (the Queen Elizabeth class being the one notable exception) had inexplicable design flaws that greatly impaired their capabilities and / or usefulness. Nelson-class: every time they fired they destroyed all the plumbing fixtures and light bulbs in the entire front half of the ship; they literally rendered half the ship basically uninhabitable outside combat. Because of this they could not remain on station for more than a few days providing fire support. And the King George V class, with unreliable electrical systems and malfunctioning turrets that were never fully fixed. This goes even up to the 1980s; HMS Sheffield would have survived the Exocet hit had she had a redundant fire main. The single most egregious example of British design flaws isn't a class, it's a whole design philosophy. The British battlecruiser concept was for a ship with battleship guns and intermediate armor. The German battlecruiser design philosophy was battleship-level armor and intermediate guns, which could still defeat British battlecruiser armor and cause significant damage even to battleships. Key examples there were the two Scharnhorst-class battlecruisers / battleships, but this basic configuration was used in WW1 as well. You can see where this could go horribly wrong for the British, and it did. Around 6000 lives were lost over the various British battlecruisers sunk due to magazine explosions. Yet even after Jutland, they kept building them.
Good to watch again. I can't help thinking about the negligent construction leading to a series of tragic events. Thanks for this. I'll remember this next time i sail out of Dover! 👍🏽
Naval service before 1900 was far more dangerous than today simply due to peacetime accidents. We have come a long way but incidents such as the HMCS Kootenay fire and an immense list of smaller tragedies still leaves all navies with a grisly yearly tally. Lest we forget.
British cordite was notoriously unstable. Still that should have only applied to over age cordite. But a fire in the cork insulation could well cause a detonition! A fire in an adjacent coal bunker sank the USS Maine!
Thank you for sharing your always excellent research, script, narration, graphics, and editing. I truly appreciate your high quality videos. I'm honestly surprised that the RN kept an ammunition ship in Dover, especially near a warship. Halifax had been leveled not a year before by an exploding ammo ship so I'm gobsmacked that they would take the risk.
When the ship was finally refloated, it seems like that would have been a good opportunity to investigate into the cause further. Perhaps the navy just wanted the issue done with.
So bad practice, missing rivetts, ...gaps or NEWSPAPER instead of insulation...plus not actually knowing what's on the other side of a metal wall...what could possibly go wrong. As usual, a string of "little" mistakes leads too terrible destruction and loss of life. We never seem t learn do we.
My question is where was the Superintendent of Ships - the Admiralty representative to the yard whose job was to insure standards and regulations were followed?
During WW1 both sides were so short of munitions that many corners were cut in order to boost production. Stabilizers enhancing both the shelf life and safety of propellants and explosives were often given short shrift under the theory that all munitions would be fired at the Germans within a month or two. While this may have been true of ammo for the field artillery in Flanders and along the Somme, it was not true of the Royal Navy.
Man, I love it, when these Ships look that Way... Mayhe it's unpractical, perhaps even unsafe... But from an aesthetical Point of View this is Turbo-Steampunk!
Tbf, even if we had gotten the ships we would have probably lost them about as instantly, the same way we lost the ones we had, which were turned over to us after ww1 from the Brits, sans torpedo protection which we somehow felt would make them too cumbersome for their intended duties. An ironic twist of fate. Biggest mistake we made was in not investing in destroyers, proper maintenance & upgrade programs and captains with initiative (last 2 of which doomed the few coastal battleships we actually had). At least our topography gave the jerries a lot of headaches and enabled the British to sink a good portion of their destroyers.
I wonder if the remains of the crew who lost their lives were recovered? Before the hulk became a ferry terminal. Buried under tons of earth. After all, that happened to king Richard!
They would recover all remains, if they could be found. Though salvage work on NATAL many years later revealed one skeleton that had been blasted into the bunkers.
“In September 1917 orders were sent to Armstrong to complete the ships to a newly revised design. Anti-torpedo bulges were to be fitted covering about 75 per cent of the length of the hull, necessitating the removal of the torpedo tubes.” Taken from Ian Buxton’s Big Gun Monitors: Design, Construction, and Operations 1914-1945. If you’re referring to a photo when either Glatton or Gorgon were in dry dock, they were still undergoing their modifications and the torpedo tubes were being filled in. Buxton is also referring to the removal of the internal machinery for the tubes.
Rathlin Island off the North coast of N.Ireland the HMS Drake lies in shallow waters, sunk in 1917. In the 1970's, 80's Cordite used to wash ashore from it's broken hull. My mother told us that when they were children her and her brothers made bombs from it. As somewhat curious children we'd gather loads of it and take it home and stuff it into paint tins and set it off. It was like little match sticks. We were lucky we weren't killed as it exploded with some force. Into the 80's the security forces realised that this stuff could be used and it was sealed or removed. Those were the days! The story of the HMS Drake would make a great video. There's still a ship sunk that day but in treacherous waters full of Whiskey!
Well, I do state on screen what’s going on. There a total of about 20 photos out there of Glatton and Gorgon so I supplemented with some footage of the monitor squadron. When I’m discussing Glatton’s loss I only use their photos.
@@ImportantNavalHistory Far enough. I appreciate your response and I will observe that later visuals focus on those two vessels. (Maybe I have been critiquing too many Dark Seas videos. 😁)
As soon as we heard 'missing rivets and newspaper', we thought of a channel called Plainly Difficult where this is often the literal downfall of buildings, let alone a ship full of munitions. If that is what happened, you have to question the intelligence of the workmen. It could be classed as 'sabotage of a warship in her majesty's shipyards during wartime'. This sort of thing used to be one of the things that was punishable by hanging automatically.
On surveying a hotel on London some years ago, I drew the attention of the management to an accumulation of old car tyres and other flammable rubbish at the base of the riser shaft. I don't know if they acted on it.
Taken directly from Big Gun Monitors: Design, Construction, and Operations 1915-1945 by Ian Buxton. Unless I’m mistaken, I believe I was discussing the original state of the guns as they were before they were rebored.
50 calibre in this instance is not referring to the size of the round. I believe in big gun parlance it is a measure based on a ratio between bore and length of barrel, but I stand to be corrected.
Thank you all for watching! This is a redo of sorts, in the sense that I have covered this story in the past. I've just added some details and some different visuals.
@ImportantNavalHistory It was an excellent job covering a little known bit of history. Truly a heroic move by the captain having his ship torpedoed. Many would have been tempted to keep trying to save it fearing for their careers. He was more concerned for the nearby town. We'll done, good sir!
The Royal Navy did seem to suffer some sort of curse with cordite during WW1. Another fine video on a little known catastrophe . Thank you so much!!
Certainly an interesting little bit of history. Glad Dover is still in one piece!
Considering this came after the Halifax explosion, the R.N. didn't seem to have learnt their lesson.
@@gerryjamesedwards1227 Halifax did not involve cordite and due to bad seanansship and poor ship handling
The Royal Navy in the 20th century was always about quantity over quality. British ships tended to be like British cars: unreliable deathtraps. The vast majority of British ship designs (the Queen Elizabeth class being the one notable exception) had inexplicable design flaws that greatly impaired their capabilities and / or usefulness. Nelson-class: every time they fired they destroyed all the plumbing fixtures and light bulbs in the entire front half of the ship; they literally rendered half the ship basically uninhabitable outside combat. Because of this they could not remain on station for more than a few days providing fire support. And the King George V class, with unreliable electrical systems and malfunctioning turrets that were never fully fixed. This goes even up to the 1980s; HMS Sheffield would have survived the Exocet hit had she had a redundant fire main.
The single most egregious example of British design flaws isn't a class, it's a whole design philosophy. The British battlecruiser concept was for a ship with battleship guns and intermediate armor. The German battlecruiser design philosophy was battleship-level armor and intermediate guns, which could still defeat British battlecruiser armor and cause significant damage even to battleships. Key examples there were the two Scharnhorst-class battlecruisers / battleships, but this basic configuration was used in WW1 as well. You can see where this could go horribly wrong for the British, and it did. Around 6000 lives were lost over the various British battlecruisers sunk due to magazine explosions. Yet even after Jutland, they kept building them.
the french had a similar problem with poudre B
This is the first I've heard of this incident. Many thanks.
Good to watch again. I can't help thinking about the negligent construction leading to a series of tragic events. Thanks for this. I'll remember this next time i sail out of Dover! 👍🏽
Thank you! I should put a little comment saying that it’s a redo of sorts. As there is some different information and imagery.
Naval service before 1900 was far more dangerous than today simply due to peacetime accidents. We have come a long way but incidents such as the HMCS Kootenay fire and an immense list of smaller tragedies still leaves all navies with a grisly yearly tally. Lest we forget.
There seems to be a problem with our bloody ships today....
British cordite was notoriously unstable. Still that should have only applied to over age cordite.
But a fire in the cork insulation could well cause a detonition!
A fire in an adjacent coal bunker sank the USS Maine!
You have earned my Sub! A good accompaniment to people like Drachinifel!
Great video and a awesome channel!
Thank you for sharing your always excellent research, script, narration, graphics, and editing. I truly appreciate your high quality videos.
I'm honestly surprised that the RN kept an ammunition ship in Dover, especially near a warship. Halifax had been leveled not a year before by an exploding ammo ship so I'm gobsmacked that they would take the risk.
Thank you! It really does make me wonder why they would have an ammunition ship like that in Dover, it really is odd.
Never heard of this incident. Read about Halifax, Canada, but not Dover, UK.
check out the Fauld explosion
Somebody was smoking in the magazine. Simple.
Certainly a possibility. Reminds me of the Russian battleship the Empress Maria, as that was a possible cause given to describe her loss.
Highly unlikely!
Now, now, she wasn't a Russian ship, don't be hasty...
@@AnimeSunglasses :-D
Wouldn’t want Treebeard thinking we’re hasty folk.
The captain who was well known for being a glatton for punishment
I know where the bodies are Mr Boat guy
When the ship was finally refloated, it seems like that would have been a good opportunity to investigate into the cause further. Perhaps the navy just wanted the issue done with.
Wouldn't be surprised if, by 1926, they were sick to death of it.
Which had been destroyed in the explosion and fire
So bad practice, missing rivetts, ...gaps or NEWSPAPER instead of insulation...plus not actually knowing what's on the other side of a metal wall...what could possibly go wrong. As usual, a string of "little" mistakes leads too terrible destruction and loss of life.
We never seem t learn do we.
My question is where was the Superintendent of Ships - the Admiralty representative to the yard whose job was to insure standards and regulations were followed?
During WW1 both sides were so short of munitions that many corners were cut in order to boost production. Stabilizers enhancing both the shelf life and safety of propellants and explosives were often given short shrift under the theory that all munitions would be fired at the Germans within a month or two. While this may have been true of ammo for the field artillery in Flanders and along the Somme, it was not true of the Royal Navy.
Look at the tumblehome on that sucker!
Anti torpedo protection.
Man, I love it, when these Ships look that Way... Mayhe it's unpractical, perhaps even unsafe... But from an aesthetical Point of View this is Turbo-Steampunk!
Sounds like the ww2 Youngblood - maybe he's breaking into ww1 maritime - anyway nice video
Interesting ... Superb work again sir😊
Why put a flammable cork liner in the magazines?
What would you suggest in 1914-18?
Uh, lined with sheet *lead alloy* with asbestos “lagging” behind it???
(Similar to type metal, 10+ % tin, 5+ % antimony, balance lead.)
Spark prevention and insulation..
Very interesting and informative
I like the rare film footage of Royal Navy shore bombardment monitors. Coastal defense battleships are interesting too.
Most magazine explosions are in the magazine!🤪
Have not heard this story. Good find
Tbf, even if we had gotten the ships we would have probably lost them about as instantly, the same way we lost the ones we had, which were turned over to us after ww1 from the Brits, sans torpedo protection which we somehow felt would make them too cumbersome for their intended duties. An ironic twist of fate.
Biggest mistake we made was in not investing in destroyers, proper maintenance & upgrade programs and captains with initiative (last 2 of which doomed the few coastal battleships we actually had).
At least our topography gave the jerries a lot of headaches and enabled the British to sink a good portion of their destroyers.
I wonder if the remains of the crew who lost their lives were recovered? Before the hulk became a ferry terminal. Buried under tons of earth. After all, that happened to king Richard!
They would recover all remains, if they could be found. Though salvage work on NATAL many years later revealed one skeleton that had been blasted into the bunkers.
There's at least one torpedo tube on her starboard waist, above the waterline, pointed clear of her plating
“In September 1917 orders were sent to Armstrong to complete the ships to a newly revised design. Anti-torpedo bulges were to be fitted covering about 75 per cent of the length of the hull, necessitating the removal of the torpedo tubes.” Taken from Ian Buxton’s Big Gun Monitors: Design, Construction, and Operations 1914-1945. If you’re referring to a photo when either Glatton or Gorgon were in dry dock, they were still undergoing their modifications and the torpedo tubes were being filled in. Buxton is also referring to the removal of the internal machinery for the tubes.
@@ImportantNavalHistory My uncle ran Whale Island: it's in one of your stills
Rathlin Island off the North coast of N.Ireland the HMS Drake lies in shallow waters, sunk in 1917. In the 1970's, 80's Cordite used to wash ashore from it's broken hull. My mother told us that when they were children her and her brothers made bombs from it. As somewhat curious children we'd gather loads of it and take it home and stuff it into paint tins and set it off. It was like little match sticks. We were lucky we weren't killed as it exploded with some force. Into the 80's the security forces realised that this stuff could be used and it was sealed or removed. Those were the days! The story of the HMS Drake would make a great video. There's still a ship sunk that day but in treacherous waters full of Whiskey!
Careless ship workers in the yards, not giving a crap about safety and security.
Although both ships were armed with single-gun turrets, you are showing a lot of two-turret somethings. Who edits this stuff?
Well, I do state on screen what’s going on. There a total of about 20 photos out there of Glatton and Gorgon so I supplemented with some footage of the monitor squadron. When I’m discussing Glatton’s loss I only use their photos.
@@ImportantNavalHistory Far enough. I appreciate your response and I will observe that later visuals focus on those two vessels. (Maybe I have been critiquing too many Dark Seas videos. 😁)
All good man, trust me, I wouldn’t add completely unrelated footage to a video. There is actual method to my madness 😃
Oh, that was a good one!
Everyone smoked back then. And to get caught was a bad thing on a ship.
The torpedo bulges are interesting
a lot of september 11!!
✌️✌️
As soon as we heard 'missing rivets and newspaper', we thought of a channel called Plainly Difficult where this is often the literal downfall of buildings, let alone a ship full of munitions. If that is what happened, you have to question the intelligence of the workmen. It could be classed as 'sabotage of a warship in her majesty's shipyards during wartime'. This sort of thing used to be one of the things that was punishable by hanging automatically.
On surveying a hotel on London some years ago, I drew the attention of the management to an accumulation of old car tyres and other flammable rubbish at the base of the riser shaft. I don't know if they acted on it.
Does this ship have love handles 😂
Spanish mine, most likely.
Disproven
This guy got a goofy voice
Rage bait
Wow didn't he was threat to dover
9 1/2 inch guns classed by you as 50 calibre? really?
Taken directly from Big Gun Monitors: Design, Construction, and Operations 1915-1945 by Ian Buxton. Unless I’m mistaken, I believe I was discussing the original state of the guns as they were before they were rebored.
50 calibre in this instance is not referring to the size of the round. I believe in big gun parlance it is a measure based on a ratio between bore and length of barrel, but I stand to be corrected.
Yes. I responded to that comment half awake. In any case the guns were originally 9.45 inch 50 caliber.
9.5 inch 50 calibre.
The barrel is 50 calibres long.
50 x 9.5 = 475" long barrels.
@@Tuck-Shop I knew it was something like that, but couldn't remember off the top of my head and couldn't be bothered to Google it.
Thanks ,interesting 😊