And they're the ones who look weird. Like something about the "normal people" art style is just... icky to me. It's not even the clash, they just... Ew.
I tried to limit my DM duties doing this, by only promising a short shot. But my group pressured me into making it regular long-form DnD after the last session.
If you do it right, its not a trick. It allows low cost entry for new players while saving you as the dm headaches when you have player churn. Its the logic behind many of the original campaigns. Create a world the players play in rather than a story the players play through.
Honestly I've seen most of these as legitimate reasons. (Not Laundry day. Go fuck yourself, if that was a problem then you wouldn't have been set up to play that day to begin with.) Including car trouble, despite being a online game. The guy needed to go out and get his car checked by people because it broke down the previous day and so his day went down the crapper. Baby problem similarly was needing to take the baby for a checkup and the only free day that week was DnD. And I myself have had work just one-sidedly decide to break prior agreements and either call me in or change my schedule permanently to cover game day. (I ALSO had work try to call me in despite months of warnings that I couldn't be called in when I went on vacation with my family and was 2000 miles away from work. Including one place I worked at which shadow fired me after failing to call me in while I was on the other side of the country. Just stopped calling me in to work events at all because they decided I betrayed them when I didn't show up for the ONE event I told them ahead of time I couldn't work.)
@@Sandman382 Holy fuck! That's an incredibly shitty employer! Sounds like those ass holes couldn't be bothered to check the vacation time calendar. I hope you've landed someplace that respects you, and pays more.
My longest standing player has GMed entire D&D campaigns for exclusively his kids, and has now even played in games GMed by his kids for the whole family. Start 'em young, make it a family institution. ;-)
i once had a wargaming group that met every weekend for a year. 4-6 rotating people who were into the game. it broke up because some of us had to move, but man, that was good. And everyone was clean and showered. fokkin excellent
Another tip: very few people cancel suddenly twice in a row. Even fewer three times. If they cancel four times in a row you have a seat ghost and should deal with it accordingly.
Getting people in the habit of gaming is a huge part of it. One of our players had an existential crisis when she realized she'd turned down a date because "Sunday is D&D." We have been playing for 7 years straight across 7 hours of time zones. Game day is serious business.
That feels like a sign that you're taking D&D too seriously, but the problem is if you skip D&D to go on one date, and that date turns into a relationship, it's very easy for Sunday to turn into date night instead of D&D
@@RainAngel111 Not sure I'd call that taking D&D too seriously. It *is* a prior commitment, and one that's much more difficult to find a different schedule time for than a date. Scheduling a date just requires the schedules for 2 people to line up. D&D requires aligning the schedules of at least 3 people, often more. And as you said, breaking the D&D schedule once has the potential to break it forever, and if you have to give up on something that brings you joy to be in a relationship, that doesn't sound like a healthy relationship (with the obvious stipulation that the thing that brings you joy is harmless, not advocating for the twisted people who get joy out of other people's misery and such).
@@jacintacapelety9600 it is definitely taking D&D too seriously. I love d&d, but people have a lot going on in their life, to miss a session on occasion is fine. There's a big difference between skipping one session and giving up on D&D. If players are putting d&d ahead of everything else they do, if it prioritizes their schedule with respect to other social activities, I would argue that's similar behavior to an addiction. I don't think that is the case here, but something people should be mindful of when they put d&d on a pedestal.
@@RainAngel111 I mean, my example's a little pithy. It's not like it was do-or-die. A date can be rescheduled just like a game session can, and we definitely do have the occasional break when folks can't make it. If that player said she had a date that evening and needed to cancel, we'd have been cool with it. It was her own realization that, "Huh, I just cancelled a date to play D&D", where she discovered her own priorities in that situation.
"At the end of the double shot, give them some magic trash that matches their build and makes them think about all the cool shit they could do at higher levels" made me belly-laugh from the word 'trash' onwards. Brilliant. 'Take this +1 elven breadknife with a Light enchantment.'
Tip number 6 nail down a day BEFORE you begin to assemble players. Everyone, from the start, remains on the same page for when to meet. Makes everything a lot easier to manage.
I just recently experienced why this is absolutely necessary. Joined a game on r/LFG and all seven players were at an impasse on when to play because the DM didn’t set a day or time before recruiting people.
The only problem to that is you better hope enough of your friends are available that day to play, otherwise it's back to the drawing board. Works great with randos tho.
Yes! What I've felt is the biggest campaign killer is people who kinda-sorta-totally want to play but keep prioritizing other things over DnD even *after* you have set a date, because it's 'just a weekly game'. Like, I get there are more important things but I feel once everyone has agreed on a date, that should take precedence over other things because you have now entered into a social obligation to show up, *especially* in groups that avoid playing without everybody there where your absence can cancel the entire game night for everyone. So I have started seeing "Can stick to a set schedule/agreed-upon date" as the #1 priority player trait when thinking about who I want to play with in a regular game. Because having all your investment and excitement fizzle over months just because someone can or will not make time feels extremely bad.
I know this exact feeling, I was just lucky that the player who caused that issue was self-aware enough and/or considerate enough of other people that she just left the dnd group Then we got a player that could not make it to roughly every 3rd session, so he asked that we play the sessions without him and we finally all switched off the "everyone needs to be here" rule They're both lovely people and I'm really scared of how many people won't be like those 2
If im not mistaken that assesment is inacurate. Larry wasnt one of Zees players, hes just the other DM so Id say its more like Zees players looked for a new DM or got poached. What Im tryna say is, I dont think you can rly kick a DM, you can only leave theyr game
Something that took me a while to really understand was that if people have scheduling issues a lot, it's most likely because they're just not that interested, meaning the D&D is a lower priority than other things. If you find that some of your players start to have consistent scheduling issues, you should probably talk to them about how they're feeling about the game and what you can do to make it more engaging for them before they stop playing completely.
I had someone who I thought was like that, but it turned out they were super disabled and literally needed someone to prop them up with their phone in order to play. If they miss, it's because they couldn't get someone to help, not because they weren't interested.
I guess it depends on the reasoning. Often Scheduling as an adult is just a regular ol' nightmare, sadly, with work and school and family obligations and shit that can't be put off in favor of a game.
By higher priority, you mean that reset day for raids on (insert MMO here), that everyone hates doing, but need the raid-only tokens and drops to keep advancing the endless gear score treadmill?
For me it was about being on call those days. Even if it was on a Saturday games that went 6-11pm, I had to do the call if it came up on my phone. If it was a fast one, then I might make it back in time for the end, but there were times where I wish I had better control of my work time.
Wow, a listicle with a plot, an emotional core, an existential crisis, and a twist. Not sure why the gods graced us with such delicious content but I like it
Never betray a man with a beard. Beards have a millenia old hive mind, and beard holders can tap into an ancient, primal, world shattering rage thanks to millenia of beard lore. It will not end well, and every beard holder shall know the slight you have passed on to their kinsmen.
Summary: 1: Get your friends interested with a two-session adventure, then add more sequential adventures at the same day and time 2: Have someone who shows up every week, likely the DM, and remind people about the game 3: Invite more people than you would ideally prefer to DM for; most likely some will show up consistently and others rarely 4: Snacks and breaks during games 5: This wasn't actually a tip, it was more just part of the video's plot
tip 6: figure out why that one annoying friend decided to do the equivalent of making a group chat with everyone minus you and start his own horrible system, then beat the shit out of him
I think actually tip 5 was a real tip and it was about having a grand ol time with friends outside of DnD, creating a close knit group that can get along without the *only* demand being the dungeons and the dragons. The overarching story and the irony within that compared to the tips truly make this an exceptional episode of animated 👏
Wow, this video is even better than usual! The animation is beautiful, the topic is vital, the content is very well presented in a lovely little subplot, and the humor is spot on. Excellent work.
An interesting paradox about DnD is that its a game about things that normaly attracts introverts, that relies on social contact, thats something that normaly attracts extroverts...
God this is painfully accurate. I ended up just saying to my old group "I'm running shit on Sundays, make it or don't" after they kept not committing to the few sessions we had hope for
I feel you, Zee. Supposed to play tonight. But one in the group has an Anniversary trip and our DM is having sleep issues. Life gets in the way, but you just have to make it that much more fun when everyone does make it. The real BBEG is trying to get five adults in a room at the same time for three hours.
I can agree. Every Monday for nearly three years now my campaign happens. If there's a month or two between two campaign, there are chillout evenings in our Discord Server until the next campaign starts. all players who're new to campaign have one simple rule: Be ready to play on mondays, we don't switch to a different day.
The advice ive heard most is that to keep a group going, you pick a timeslot every week, and you treat that agreement like a god given commandment. You do no reschedule unless absolutely necessary, you give fair warning days in advance, and keep backup options if dnd isnt an option. Make the ritual of the weekly session a religious matter. Also everyone should treat it as a prior arrangement. If its not a matter of choice, i understand, but dont reschedule dnd night just because you wanted to do something. The session is scheduled already, dont just deviate for no good reason.
The key with the brownies is to work it in the story. People lose their minds cause it's a literal reward and they chase that high. "Oh damn you charmed the baker really well. One sec..." *DM leaves comes back with brownies* and says: "The Baker, chuffed by your aptitude, says: Here ya go you rascals, thanks for killing those monsters for me."
There's an adventure somewhere that literally suggests using real life brownies as a reward for finishing it. It mighta been on DM's Guild. ... Maybe Zee linked it a while ago? But also maybe not, I don't remember sorry. It's out there
The Betrayal! The one about if you’ve missed as many days than you’ve played, then yeah, campaign’s dead. Sometimes it’s just hard to put it out to pasture when your holding that 12 gauge
That ending with the group dropping away to reform without him hits a little too close to home. I wasn't the GM for the one game that happened to me in, but the GM himself metaphorically picked up the game table, invites all the other players into the next room, and locked the door on me.
I've seen it happen. 2 different groups tried to shunt a friend of mine out stealthily while they were off their meds because the doctors and insurance were being assholes. One group functionally succeeded, but there were in another group I DM'd with them and then decided to stir up shit in my game and got it killed. The other group tried to swap to something they thought the player wouldn't like....they loved it and joined, then the players all ended up attached to the new character of that person.....except one who the DM brought in 'to keep his sanity' around them and who was a massive dickbag who caused EVERY problem in the game that the GM didn't cause himself(GM couldn't believe anything less then a truck could carry 100lbs of armor....dumbass.) then eventually the GM flipped his shit when dickbag tried to leave the game after getting pissed for the 12th time that being a dumbass didn't conform reality to his ideals and the entire thing exploded because the GM basically said he wouldn't play without that player if someone was going to leave it'd be the player(who was now on their meds again since the swap of games and being very well behaved) they didn't like....the one that 3 other players wouldn't function without because of how entwined their stories had become.....meanwhile dickweed's character was 'loner who smokes and drinks. He punches things with his fists all the time and doesn't like using guns. Has sawed off shotgun because GM forced him to have a gun since trying to punch Zerg aliens in a leather coat is suicide.' who threatened to leave the game once because the base WE WERE BUILDING ON ARRIVAL didn't have a bar yet. Was really too bad, he was a damn good GM when it came to roleplaying and we had two dead campaigns instead of one because of him. Just....got really dumb thoughts in his head and refused to allow things he didn't like or think of to happen. He was SUPER opposed to robot limbs in starwars, couldn't believe that people in space marine armor were able to be carried by vehicles, and despite listed armor weights refused to believe them and made the lightest powered armor like 20 tons until we had a 3 hour argument to make him realize a ATV can carry several hundred pounds and that the armor made sense to be around the weight it was maybe a LITTLE heavier, it wouldn't take a semi-truck to transport a single space marine(starcraft) and in fact a large number of vehicles are MADE space marine size since the lowest level of effective armor for anyone in that universe is space marine armor.
Small tip. Give everyone a day before reminder, then a morning/noon reminder, and lastly a 1-2 hour before reminder. Try to get people to reply and comment to those messages to get people talking about it. It makes sure the game is on their minds. When the "captain" and someone else say that they will be there it shows the game is 100% going forward and you don't want to miss out.
Thank you for giving me the term "double shot". My friends and I use the term "three banger" for a 3 part DnD campaign, but hadn't developed one the 2 part yet.
After you watch the video, re-watch the 1st few seconds and it tells a different story than the 1st time you watched the video... And you can never go back...
May I just say. The poor betrayed puppy dog eyes of sadness supernova followed SWIFTLY by the deep, intense, black holes of RAAAAAAAGE was a beautiful touch.
People who pretend they want to play but constantly miss games or come up with excuses not to show up are the worst. One of my best friends (outside of tabletop groups) kept up the idea that he REALLY wanted to play but “oh dangit something came up can we reschedule” for literal years (I’d estimate about 5 or 6?) until he very recently admitted that he only ever showed up to games because we wanted him to be there not because he wanted to be. He phrased it in a kinder way but at the end of the day literally anything else would take precedence over the game. Even if he agreed to a date ahead of time he would flake out if something else came up. He acted like it was because these other things were so important, but really it was just that tabletop games were unimportant to him. None of that would have been a problem if he’d just said he didn’t care for it after the first campaign rather than 6 years later! I’m not that fragile, I can handle it if a friend says they’re not interested. If he’d said that from the start, I’d have been mildly disappointed but I’d move on. For example, I ran a game for my parents once and while we did have fun they made it clear that they weren’t interested in playing again. I was a bit upset but I got over it right away because I appreciated that they just didn’t enjoy the game enough to be regular players. If my friend had said as much, it would have actually saved me a lot of time and effort and frustration.
So to summarize: 1. Don't do a campaign that runs forever. Start with a two-shot to feel everyone out, and run longer and longer adventures from there. 2. Be consistent. Have your games at a consistent time and make an effort to have the game regularly happen at those times. 3. Have a group of 2-4 players. This way you can lose a player or two for a session and still have a game. 4. Have breaks in the sessions so nobody gets burnt out, and the right snacks if in person. 5. Get people who like D&D the way you DM it, who like each other (including you!) and can all commit to a reasonable time frame. Wangrods will ruin your game no matter what time you play, system you use or what snacks you bring, so don't run with wangrods.
the "team captain" tip is literally how I managed to have weekly games every single week for all 4 years I was in collage. I went to the local game shop, told the owner I wanted to run campaigns, and whoever was there that weekend played. after about a month I had a dedicated group of regulars who showed up for the next 4 years with a collection of 2-4 semi-regulars who could jump in at any point. although this obviously only worked out due to the collage town situation. also, ya know, no plague...
Basically what I did too. During the pandemic, I was basically just like game's happening on these days, whoever shows up plays as long as it's three people and eventually it became a regular campaign and I've had multiple campaigns with that group since.
My personal tip, make sure it's game day. If you can't play D&D because there's not enough players or the GM just has been unable to come up with anything or is under the weather, break out the Xbox controllers, the board games, do something else with those ready to play. Always have a game backup.
This has been a struggle for me as a DM. I actually even alienated one of my players by being too pushy about the schedule and all that, which was very disappointing and I really took it hard and felt guilty. One of the things that worked best for me and my group is: 1. Do try to pick a consistent time that most folks are available. 2. Make a simple way a few days in advance for players to confirm they're available. If they are, great, game on! If not, well, that sucks...especially if it's a string of unavailability. 3. If you're dealing with a slump, you have a couple of options...you can try a new schedule option if folks are available. You can work on other aspects of the campaign or a different campaign or a different group. I sometimes suffer from writers' block, but a few times we tried to always have an activity that time, even if it wasn't our main campaign. However, I think it's important to accept that sometimes the grandest story, with the greatest people and characters and everything...won't ever truly be finished. This isn't limited to tabletop games...We all have stories we love, be it films, tv stories, movies...I'm always greatful when a grand and epic story is well and truly finished in a satisfying way. And sometimes, a touch sad that the story is really, truly over. I'm even more sad though, when a story that had so much potential remains unfinished, unwritten...or is "finished" in a wholly unsatisfying way for whatever reason. The truth is, the more wonderful stories you attempt to write, enjoy, participate in...the more stories there will be that will be unfinished, or fall short. Sometimes so tragically that it can even cause sadness, depression, mourning. Stories, like people, are a deep part of our lives and our meaning, because without them, life is just sort of "existing". If you can't enjoy that a story hasn't concluded in a satisfactory way, then I think the next best thing is to appreciate the parts of the story you WERE able to enjoy, and for the social aspects, the people you were able to enjoy that story with. Sometimes, if a campaign is well and truly dead, it can be nice to share an ad-hoc epilogue to bring closure and catharsis. Or you can even take a page from the "fanfic" community: take the "established canon" whatever it might be for your campaign, and write alternates on top of it / encourage players to make the story their own as they continue on. Even with all that, I think it's okay to mourn the unfinished story, or the story that didn't stick the landing. If you think about it, all of us live lives that are often shorter, and less complete and narratively sensible then we would if we had "complete authorial control" over our lives...Yet even in our own lived stories, what matters the most is the journey and the people we share that journey with.
Well said. “The tree which does not fruit is meant for the fire.” I used to read that old proverb as a lesson in letting go and moving on. True though that may be, I now see a deeper meaning in it too: the fire is a fuel for future work, which uses the potential latent in that old wood to make something new! And even after it is burnt for its fuel, the char and ash are like a fertilizer for new growth. Suddenly, it’s not merely about leaving our treasures behind, but learning to see our stories and creations as the assemblages they’ve always been; amalgamations of characters and tropes and lore and clever twists and turns which can be disassembled and reassembled over and over again for the real reason we sought them in the first place: making compelling stories come to life with kindred spirits around the table, whenever the work is called upon.
God the pain of them literally not even coming to the birthday game and playing a whole other game still all together is just like. Jesus. That's 5 friends you just completely lost. Even 6 maybe in the other DM guy. Like if my friends did that to me I'd be fucking heartbroken.
My tip #6: find a way to keep them engaged between sessions. When our games went remote, I started recording and made "funny" edits of the best parts - just for the group, not public. I got better at video editing and the group loved the videos as a fun recap of the last session.
The buildings go by so quickly during the driving segments that it comes across as Zee plowing through a residential neighborhood while ranting about scheduling issues, and I love it
For 5e D&D at least, I find the ideal group size is five players and a DM, though that is solely a matter of opinion, and if you don't already have a long-running game going I can understand that being hard to wrangle.
Likewise. Five players is my preferred D&D group size. All bases are probably covered, character-wise, and one person not being able to make still leaves you with enough players to run anyway.
I love how we see them having these reasons to leave as zee just stares at them only for the bullshut excuses to actually be true and they just joined him i really just *love* how that was done
My Tip #6 is: Don't mind if you have to game once a month. It's fine to do other things on the weekends, so you and your players don't risk becoming oversaturated with TTRPGs and so you (the DM) don't work yourself to death with prep and get a decent break between sessions
6:00 Zee “I cast Burning Hands.” Larry “this game doesn’t even have a magic system!” Zee (leveling a lighter and some hairspray) “I wasn’t talking in character.”
The one and only time where I had friends wanting to get together for DnD, we never made it past session 0... our DM was kinda flaky and never put anything together, player 1 ended up heading into the Navy 3 months later, Player 2 dropped out of college and I, player 3, ended up moving out of state for a wildlife biology job. We at least made character sheets, but man, was I bummed never to have played...
As the DM and very much ‘captain’ of my group: Ive always stressed a ‘low priority’ for my group, but have always gently pushed people toward talking or playing the game as much as possible, without getting annoying (or at least I hope). I’ve got five players to manage and every single one has a full time job. Have to set expectations accordingly.
I had a friend who invited me to a discord D&D session (I moved very far). I was kinda excited since I hadn't played before. It went great. His rolls were atrocious most of the time, but at the end he pulled some of the most heroic bullshit imaginable. Next weekend I was ready to go again, but he didn't show up. It was lame... With time he stopped responding my messages and I never played again
This is so true to life, I feel like my soul is being etched out into a video. (minus the betrayal plot twist. I wish my "would be" ex friends were that spicy)
A group I was in had a core trio who attended every session: the DM, the host, and the guy whose workplace has a flexible holiday policy. It worked out pretty well.
I actually had a group excommunicate me via slowly making up excuses why we couldn't meet then meeting without me. It didn't turn out to have anything to do with me but rather that the DM didn't want to DM for more than 4 and as the newest member I was being axed.
I feel the pain bud. Feel the pain. I love that the text of the video is tips about starting groups, but... the subtext of the video is searching for commiseration about the pain of losing groups when they've hit a wall.
Wasn't another D&D table, but I had players try and pull essentially that exact thing to me. They asked me to set up a recurring game as a way for everyone to keep together after college. I quadruple checked that D&D was what they wanted to do, and made sure we had an understanding that it would be twice a month commitment, and if anyone wanted to do something different on that day, to let us all know in advance so we had time to change it up. I would buy snacks and drinks, opened my home up to host, manage calendars, and remind people of game day. Two people constantly flaked last minute (or would just ghost) and always had something else come up that day. If they actually let me know, I would always tell them no worries, family commitments/other important stuff like that happens and take priority. The last straw was the day they called and told me about an hour before the game that they had an emergency come up and they were so sorry they couldn't make it, but they would be busy handling that all day. Again, I told them no worries and that I hoped everyone was okay. Not 10 minutes later, one of my players, who got there early and was sitting on my couch, had his phone ring. It was the guy who just called me, of course. "Yo dude, we've got nothing going on today so me and other flake were going to the beach today! We invited too, did you want to come?" Everyone else told them no and showed up for gameday, but needless to say I had a nice little chat with the beach bums about the incident afterwards. Turns out this also wasn't the first time they planned other things, invited everyone in the table but me, and nobody said anything to me. That happened over 6 years ago. They are still banned from my table to this day...
God that ending makes me think of when something similar happened to me. Had a former friend who ran a dnd group with a handful of people I knew which was fine, but he specifically told them to not mention anything to me, which felt worse than just simply saying I'm full up/I want to run with newbies. One of the players eventually said something to me because they felt bad and also didn't like lying about it. This same player had still showed up for a few months for our dnd sessions while he was running his game, in secret.
I know it’s a joke. But this exact situation happened to me and it really hurts. My advice to players is to talk to your friend DMing and let them know as a group you would like a new DM and story.
My group has done really well in this regard, we game biweekly and on our off week we hang out and shoot the shit. We take holidays to spend time with our family and this keeps the game fresh and fun.
My first DND group I made I invited 20 people, 10 showed, 5-7 became the actual group. I figured statistically I would end up with the numbers I wanted and was correct!
I played in a group who used that first hook, "ye it will just be a few weeks" que losing every funking Sunday for over a year to a game that felt like it would never end. I love tabletop but god don't do that to people as you feel obligated to finish the dms story and don't want to let anyone down. But you know, I want to play other games do other stuff with the friend group then only play 1 dnd game forever.
I mean, if you want a new group to play with all you really need is a big soundproof basement, some chains, and a baseball bat or other club like device. Maybe keep a fridge down there with mountain dew and Doritos so they don't starve and offer extra food items to good rpers.
I managed a group that met three to four times a week for the full summer vacation. The trick was that we had eight players and we played if at least three people showed up. It made for very fun variety among sessions, kept the momentum going through all the various arcs, and made for some very interesting party illustrations each week from our party’s artist
Meanwhile I've got my players so focused on solving mysteries that might not even exist that they refuse to leave the campaign until they're solved. Fantastic video and animation as always.
I noticed the “Zac” in the corner of the sheet before the scene that pointed it out, and I got really confused when you immediately assumed the character was made for you.
@@MrGladiator59 Me too. I had to go back and thought "well ok, makes sense" and carried on, thinking it was sweet. An interesting way to force the plot twist.
I respect you a lot as a content creator and D&D player, and it makes me feel good to see this video with tips on things I already try to do for players with the hopes it’ll work, (which is does by the way) and feel validated. Amazing video and animation 🔥
this is accurate and sad and i'm sad too as a DM i was only able to do like a few games but it was a mess because players either couldn't make it (i had 4) , didn't want to make the drive, or didn't really care about story/stopped working there (we used a meeting room at a work building) I ran some prelimnary combat early that was just arena where i threw them in a arena and put monsters on the board for them to fight to get them used to combat, ran a spooky house test for exploration and non-combat. and did like 2 games using my short homebrew mini-campaign and it stopped before i was able to do cool reveals about the mystery and do cool monster stuff :( played in a game online with a couple friends and had a blast, but our DM had some personal stuff happen and cut out a lot of "online time" so the game halted and we rarely saw him again.
In my group we found out really quick that a weekly game is impossible. We meet up once a month but the game is an all day session on the third sunday as that day is the only one we all don't have to work. Besides the DM we have around 7 players.
These are good tips, and Zee sounds like a pretty good GM. Some of that work he talks about, people who have clubs and throw regular parties, don't do. I feel like the primary selling point here is: do you like fiction? Yes? Would you like your fiction tailored to you and your choices? Yes? Would you like to do in a collective setting with people you like? Yes? Then come role play. If not, solo-rpg's exist, too.
as someone who is beyond lucky enough to have a group of friends with fairly similar schedules I am truly grateful and I feel for all of those who have to FIND a group or put one together because it sounds so painful but at the same time when it works it can create great things... potentially
most dm don't talk about that it's called a mutiny for one player takes the others yeah that ends friendships but I've seen that blow up in other faces I remember one time a guy tried that once cuz he was pissed off he lost his priest tried to convince everyone else to go play no one showed up at his table that was kind of funny
As a 5 year DM, this really hit me hard because I believe I'm currently in that stage of "losing" my players, and it is the most harrowing feeling too, especially if the reason was that you had to take a month's break due to mental health issues. I attempted to host a session for them while I was feeling okay, which was met with an hour of effectively standing still despite my best attempts to throw plot hooks at my players, they were from what I could tell, disinterested. They seemingly didn't want to continue until they finally decided to make a move in a sluggish manner and with little of the effort they usually put into the game. That experience has now mentally crushed me and put me in a spot where I feel I am not allowed to take breaks, asking myself if I am really enough while going between telling myself that I am and that I am not. Thanks for putting a smile on my face Zee, even though it was born out of misfortune. Edit: And if you are a DM and have felt like I do, remember to just take a moment, calm down, and talk with your players, if they're not willing to even do that, then leave it be.
Frankly, sometimes momentum is what keeps a game going. And sometimes it keeps a gaming group going. Here's what I would suggest. First, embrace the slowness in this new beginning. People will pick things up eventually and you'll be back to a more pleasant experience. Try asking your players to be specific about what would get them more interested and engaged, if you haven't already. But second, you might also offer the idea that if this game (I'm assuming you started out with a new campaign after the long break) just isn't to their liking, for whatever reason, one of them might like to try running a game for once instead. Not as a "Oh yeah? Let's see if you do any better" king of thing, but because DMing can be a lot of fun, and from the sound of it you could use a bit more of a break. Because Playing can be a lot of fun, too, and it's certainly less work.
@@thassalantekreskel5742 So I run for two groups, one is my EU group (I am located within their time zone as well so we do it in the evenings) and then there is my American playgroup which I start at midnight (my time), what we were doing is resuming the Waterdeep: Dragon Heist module as I saw that I wouldn't be able to write for two homebrew campaigns at once, so I kept my EU group as the only homebrew campaign for now. Presently I just believe they were a little bit lost, and they have expressed that the open-ended nature of this module has been a bit too much for them as they'll sit with choice paralysis and have expressed they enjoyed my more custom PC-made story bits that were more rail-roaded as they prefer to just enjoy a story more than having to figure out 4-5 different variables. I'm sure it'll be fine once we're back to it on a regular schedule, and I have spoken to them about our options, before I took my break it was supposed to be that one of my players was to try setting time aside to give DM'ing a try, although they don't know when and where they should even start, so I helped them pick an easy module and taught them about how to use the VTT on the DM's end of things. Since then however nothing has come of it, despite his initial excitement for it, I definitely would've liked to have the chance to play as a player, but I am resigned to the "curse" of Forever DM™. I think it'll resolve itself eventually.
@@matt-ti8yw Yeah I know, unfortunately I have a tendency to attach my self worth to my performances DM'ing and/or singing, so I end up mentally harassing myself whenever something goes just a little bit wrong.
We had the opposite problem. Two of my friends and I were realy hyped on playing DnD for a long time now and we were already intrested in commiting to a campain depending on how the first session goes, but since we have basicly no expirience in Pen´n´Paper, beside playing the occasional Warhammer story-campain, we looked for a DM who had at least one or two sessions under his belt and already knows how to play. After a while we did find one, but he rescedualed our first game so often, we stopped asking all together.
awesome video. I can say that I stopped playing d&d about 5 years ago when all my friend started to get married/having babies. I basically think when you are an adult you simply can't really play d&d anymore. there's always something in the way of the game. I never played a game since
This comment section is filled with people who had to let go and probably still want to play. Maybe set up somewhere online and see of that can work for you?
yep... just don't go behind your dm's game to play a different game with a bs reason. If you are not enjoying it just tell them you will make thme a service by giving them oppurtunity to fix mistakes
This guy is making BROWNIES, giving breaks, and we've heard of all the rule of cool/fun rulings he's made as a DM. You sound like an amazing DM Zee. The struggle to actually play DND is real. Keep up the great work man!
I have a piece of advice that may or may not work with certain types of groups; if your group likes going off on real-world tangents with D&D as the backdrop, let them do that! In the group I run we've all got some level of attention deficit, be it autism, ADHD, anxiety, or some combination of, and we usually end up spending about half of our 3 hour session just chatting about stuff. It's great for me as DM because I only have to prep about 1.5-2 hours of content and the rest is just a bunch of my friends and I talking over Discord about this-that-or-whatever
As someone with multiple flavors of The Spicy Brain, I really appreciate this viewpoint, and I instituted something similar into my game, it's just in character. Whenever I have to really quick check my notes or write something down or generally need a moment to organize myself, I give my players time for 'travel talk'. It's basically a chance for the players to improv and talk about their backstories or recent goings on or the new place they're at or to play road trip games basically (or whatever), as the characters travel (which is usually when I need the time to organize to prep the next area, especially if they were more efficient than I expected). We've had all kinds of fun come from that, from emotional conversations about how the characters don't need to keep huge dangerous secrets and will always be there for each other, to revealing how our dwarf with dwarfism learned how to use an ancient necrotic magic spell because it was carved super low down on a stone wall of lore in his home and everyone else was too tall to notice (and thankfully none of the children understood how to do magic that well, but one of the stoneworkers was definitely trying to cause some mayhem, feels like a 'last day on the job that you've been fired from but still have to work on' kind of thing), to the plot twist of our cleric having an evil twin sister that I'm planning on having pop up one day, to solving the misconception that my players had that Neverwinter is a tropical climate when they were asking the season so they could comment on the weather ('never' 'winter' in a more northern area of the world is a confusing name choice). Most people at our table are some form of ND, and as a group we quite like getting distracted and going on tangents, so this style of gameplay works well for us. Also, mini-downtime I've noticed is important in more plot heavy games, just giving the characters a chance to discuss what's going on in their lives.
"If the number of games you've played in a campaign is outnumbered by the number of games your group has rescheduled or missed... your game is dead." This is seriously the most true fact EVER. Honestly, all it takes is one month of missed play. After that, it's over, in my experience.
As a DM that's been having multiple games rescheduled recently and having alot of time to think about story hooks and homebrewed magic items and just everything and everyone in my games, this was an amazing time to watch this amazing video. Thanks Zee, keep doing you.
Zee walking around town, ranting about DnD, and peeking teary eyed through windows, is not something I expected, but am glad I witnessed.
I can relate to much
Peeking ❤ Sorry it's a condition
It's like getting a glimpse at his real life.
Witness!
seeing everybody disappear one by one with reason after reason hurts me on a spiritual level
Prospect: "I've got real life things."
DM: "That's okay! Real life comes first!"
DM: *cries in lack of real life things*
Honestly, as someone who lives alone in a city far from IRL friends and family...
That's a *M O O D*
I feel called out.
Hits too close to home
Why must you hurt me this way? Yes i spend 30 hours a day working on DnD things, but I mean, come on, not everyone has to have a life... right?
Screaming "I AM REAL" and grabbing and shaking them really should work, but it never seems to get the point across for some reason
I love how every character is so wildly different aesthetically to Zee, like they're "normal" people to Zee's TTRPG people
The parents defs give off huge "normal-core" energy
Except Zac...
And they're the ones who look weird. Like something about the "normal people" art style is just... icky to me. It's not even the clash, they just... Ew.
only Zac as Zee have 4 fingered hands, everyone else seems to have 5 fingered hands. very weird and intentional.
It’s great! Big Mario in New Donk City vibes
I love the strategy of "trick them into playing a campaign by calling each quest/mission a short-shot... that just happen to all be linked together" 😂
This is the literal origin story of critical roll
@@user-mu8ok5xf8d 😆 it is, isn’t it?
I tried to limit my DM duties doing this, by only promising a short shot. But my group pressured me into making it regular long-form DnD after the last session.
If you do it right, its not a trick. It allows low cost entry for new players while saving you as the dm headaches when you have player churn. Its the logic behind many of the original campaigns. Create a world the players play in rather than a story the players play through.
@@ghandiwon I mean... it IS a trick, but more like a magic trick, not a "aha! you activated my trap card" -trick.
I love that baby is labeled as "bullshit reason".
One of our players played throughout her pregnancy, and well into the new born baby phase.
Honestly I've seen most of these as legitimate reasons. (Not Laundry day. Go fuck yourself, if that was a problem then you wouldn't have been set up to play that day to begin with.) Including car trouble, despite being a online game. The guy needed to go out and get his car checked by people because it broke down the previous day and so his day went down the crapper. Baby problem similarly was needing to take the baby for a checkup and the only free day that week was DnD. And I myself have had work just one-sidedly decide to break prior agreements and either call me in or change my schedule permanently to cover game day. (I ALSO had work try to call me in despite months of warnings that I couldn't be called in when I went on vacation with my family and was 2000 miles away from work. Including one place I worked at which shadow fired me after failing to call me in while I was on the other side of the country. Just stopped calling me in to work events at all because they decided I betrayed them when I didn't show up for the ONE event I told them ahead of time I couldn't work.)
@@Sandman382 Holy fuck!
That's an incredibly shitty employer!
Sounds like those ass holes couldn't be bothered to check the vacation time calendar.
I hope you've landed someplace that respects you, and pays more.
Keep playing even when the baby is there, and you'll have another player in just a few years. I've played D&D with my six year old nephew before.
My longest standing player has GMed entire D&D campaigns for exclusively his kids, and has now even played in games GMed by his kids for the whole family. Start 'em young, make it a family institution. ;-)
@@NathanielJordan85 Oh damn!
That's impressive!
I have never seen a numbered list with this much narrative and emotional range. I laughed, I cried, I learned how to schedule D&D groups. No notes.
"I learned how to schedule D&D groups."
Pix or it didn't happen.
@@xeltanni8999 Did it happen? It didn't did it.
@@patrickhoward3727 My D&D group text: "We should play!" "Yeah!" "Absolutely!" "Let's goooo!" "When is everyone available?" "Oh, um..." "Er..." "About that..." "lolno"
This is so accurate it hurts. Planning play time is truly the most difficult thing players and DMs can face.
i once had a wargaming group that met every weekend for a year. 4-6 rotating people who were into the game. it broke up because some of us had to move, but man, that was good. And everyone was clean and showered. fokkin excellent
PF2e even recognizes this in the core rulebook.
The real TPK is scheduling...
@@RyNsWoRLD sad that last one even has to be discussed
Found myself a group that has committed to every other Monday for the past 4 years. I love them.
Another tip: very few people cancel suddenly twice in a row. Even fewer three times. If they cancel four times in a row you have a seat ghost and should deal with it accordingly.
Of course with reasonable exceptions, like your friend who got in a car crash and has been in rehab for 4 weeks should not be treated as a ghost
true. regrettably i have been that person once. i should've said something, but i was just too drained of energy.
@@Brent-jj6qi yeah but that's not sudden, at least not after the first one
Yup
@@Brent-jj6qi I misread this as 'your friend who got in a car wash' and was highly confused, but amused.
Getting people in the habit of gaming is a huge part of it. One of our players had an existential crisis when she realized she'd turned down a date because "Sunday is D&D." We have been playing for 7 years straight across 7 hours of time zones. Game day is serious business.
that is when you should invite the date to D&D.
That feels like a sign that you're taking D&D too seriously, but the problem is if you skip D&D to go on one date, and that date turns into a relationship, it's very easy for Sunday to turn into date night instead of D&D
@@RainAngel111 Not sure I'd call that taking D&D too seriously. It *is* a prior commitment, and one that's much more difficult to find a different schedule time for than a date. Scheduling a date just requires the schedules for 2 people to line up. D&D requires aligning the schedules of at least 3 people, often more. And as you said, breaking the D&D schedule once has the potential to break it forever, and if you have to give up on something that brings you joy to be in a relationship, that doesn't sound like a healthy relationship (with the obvious stipulation that the thing that brings you joy is harmless, not advocating for the twisted people who get joy out of other people's misery and such).
@@jacintacapelety9600 it is definitely taking D&D too seriously. I love d&d, but people have a lot going on in their life, to miss a session on occasion is fine. There's a big difference between skipping one session and giving up on D&D.
If players are putting d&d ahead of everything else they do, if it prioritizes their schedule with respect to other social activities, I would argue that's similar behavior to an addiction. I don't think that is the case here, but something people should be mindful of when they put d&d on a pedestal.
@@RainAngel111 I mean, my example's a little pithy. It's not like it was do-or-die. A date can be rescheduled just like a game session can, and we definitely do have the occasional break when folks can't make it. If that player said she had a date that evening and needed to cancel, we'd have been cool with it. It was her own realization that, "Huh, I just cancelled a date to play D&D", where she discovered her own priorities in that situation.
"At the end of the double shot, give them some magic trash that matches their build and makes them think about all the cool shit they could do at higher levels" made me belly-laugh from the word 'trash' onwards. Brilliant. 'Take this +1 elven breadknife with a Light enchantment.'
Careful if you have creative players, that can backfire on you big time.
I know I'm hella late on this, but I think he's actually saying "treash" as in short for "treasure"
*trash-treasure
Tip number 6
nail down a day BEFORE you begin to assemble players.
Everyone, from the start, remains on the same page for when to meet. Makes everything a lot easier to manage.
But if your trying to lure them in like at the beginning of the video it dosent work out so well
I just recently experienced why this is absolutely necessary. Joined a game on r/LFG and all seven players were at an impasse on when to play because the DM didn’t set a day or time before recruiting people.
The only problem to that is you better hope enough of your friends are available that day to play, otherwise it's back to the drawing board. Works great with randos tho.
Yes! What I've felt is the biggest campaign killer is people who kinda-sorta-totally want to play but keep prioritizing other things over DnD even *after* you have set a date, because it's 'just a weekly game'. Like, I get there are more important things but I feel once everyone has agreed on a date, that should take precedence over other things because you have now entered into a social obligation to show up, *especially* in groups that avoid playing without everybody there where your absence can cancel the entire game night for everyone.
So I have started seeing "Can stick to a set schedule/agreed-upon date" as the #1 priority player trait when thinking about who I want to play with in a regular game.
Because having all your investment and excitement fizzle over months just because someone can or will not make time feels extremely bad.
I know this exact feeling, I was just lucky that the player who caused that issue was self-aware enough and/or considerate enough of other people that she just left the dnd group
Then we got a player that could not make it to roughly every 3rd session, so he asked that we play the sessions without him and we finally all switched off the "everyone needs to be here" rule
They're both lovely people and I'm really scared of how many people won't be like those 2
Are we going to get a story on why everyone made a new group behind his back instead of just admitting why they kicked him?
If im not mistaken that assesment is inacurate. Larry wasnt one of Zees players, hes just the other DM so Id say its more like Zees players looked for a new DM or got poached. What Im tryna say is, I dont think you can rly kick a DM, you can only leave theyr game
Zee's got a penchant for Gritty Realism, probably wanted a campaign where someone doesn't get Game of Thrones'd every session.
It's his ruling about the jumping distance, isn't it?
@@tuomasronnberg5244 No its the Hozer who TPKed an entire party... TWICE.
@@tuomasronnberg5244 Or using realistic carry weight systems.
Something that took me a while to really understand was that if people have scheduling issues a lot, it's most likely because they're just not that interested, meaning the D&D is a lower priority than other things. If you find that some of your players start to have consistent scheduling issues, you should probably talk to them about how they're feeling about the game and what you can do to make it more engaging for them before they stop playing completely.
I had someone who I thought was like that, but it turned out they were super disabled and literally needed someone to prop them up with their phone in order to play. If they miss, it's because they couldn't get someone to help, not because they weren't interested.
I guess it depends on the reasoning. Often Scheduling as an adult is just a regular ol' nightmare, sadly, with work and school and family obligations and shit that can't be put off in favor of a game.
By higher priority, you mean that reset day for raids on (insert MMO here), that everyone hates doing, but need the raid-only tokens and drops to keep advancing the endless gear score treadmill?
For me it was about being on call those days. Even if it was on a Saturday games that went 6-11pm, I had to do the call if it came up on my phone. If it was a fast one, then I might make it back in time for the end, but there were times where I wish I had better control of my work time.
TIP #6 - doublecheck if maybe you're putting a bit too much pressure on the rest of your players. Passion is a slippery slope to Tyranny.
… thank you, I needed to hear that…
So bloody guilty there.
NONSENSE!
HELP! I've been attacked! It needed to be said, so, thank you for saying it
Unless Tyranny is what you're going for...
Wow, a listicle with a plot, an emotional core, an existential crisis, and a twist. Not sure why the gods graced us with such delicious content but I like it
Zee is a generous god
Never betray a man with a beard. Beards have a millenia old hive mind, and beard holders can tap into an ancient, primal, world shattering rage thanks to millenia of beard lore. It will not end well, and every beard holder shall know the slight you have passed on to their kinsmen.
Oh, I so gonna steal that! Thank you.
@@TheDocAstaroth im debating making it a parasitic abberation or a magic item, itd be great
So... is that why I generally don't like people?
@@theastralwanderer i assume you are of the hive mind. This would explain things yes.
*beardsmen
Summary:
1: Get your friends interested with a two-session adventure, then add more sequential adventures at the same day and time
2: Have someone who shows up every week, likely the DM, and remind people about the game
3: Invite more people than you would ideally prefer to DM for; most likely some will show up consistently and others rarely
4: Snacks and breaks during games
5: This wasn't actually a tip, it was more just part of the video's plot
tip 6: figure out why that one annoying friend decided to do the equivalent of making a group chat with everyone minus you and start his own horrible system, then beat the shit out of him
@@blikthepro9727 . switch names .do a plastic.surgury and move to Argentina
I think actually tip 5 was a real tip and it was about having a grand ol time with friends outside of DnD, creating a close knit group that can get along without the *only* demand being the dungeons and the dragons.
The overarching story and the irony within that compared to the tips truly make this an exceptional episode of animated 👏
Wow, this video is even better than usual! The animation is beautiful, the topic is vital, the content is very well presented in a lovely little subplot, and the humor is spot on. Excellent work.
Zee is upping his game with every video. Absolutely one of the best D&D content creators out there.
Well said. It’s easy to take great content for granted when content creators make it look easy by crushing it every damn time
An interesting paradox about DnD is that its a game about things that normaly attracts introverts, that relies on social contact, thats something that normaly attracts extroverts...
God this is painfully accurate. I ended up just saying to my old group "I'm running shit on Sundays, make it or don't" after they kept not committing to the few sessions we had hope for
Did they make it?
@@sipofsunscorchedsarsaparil6052 sometimes, but I have more enthusiastic newer players that easily filled that gap
I feel you, Zee. Supposed to play tonight. But one in the group has an Anniversary trip and our DM is having sleep issues. Life gets in the way, but you just have to make it that much more fun when everyone does make it. The real BBEG is trying to get five adults in a room at the same time for three hours.
Shear momentum keeps a group together better than anything else I've tried. Picking a day and then finding the players who can stick to it.
my group plays on the first and third friday of the month. its predictable and easy to plan around. holidays take priorities.
I can agree. Every Monday for nearly three years now my campaign happens. If there's a month or two between two campaign, there are chillout evenings in our Discord Server until the next campaign starts. all players who're new to campaign have one simple rule: Be ready to play on mondays, we don't switch to a different day.
Every Tuesday. We've been gaming as a group for almost a decade, with our current campaign heading for the 4 year mark
The advice ive heard most is that to keep a group going, you pick a timeslot every week, and you treat that agreement like a god given commandment. You do no reschedule unless absolutely necessary, you give fair warning days in advance, and keep backup options if dnd isnt an option. Make the ritual of the weekly session a religious matter.
Also everyone should treat it as a prior arrangement. If its not a matter of choice, i understand, but dont reschedule dnd night just because you wanted to do something. The session is scheduled already, dont just deviate for no good reason.
Be careful with shear momentum though, running with scissors is never a good idea.
The key with the brownies is to work it in the story. People lose their minds cause it's a literal reward and they chase that high.
"Oh damn you charmed the baker really well. One sec..."
*DM leaves comes back with brownies* and says:
"The Baker, chuffed by your aptitude, says: Here ya go you rascals, thanks for killing those monsters for me."
There's an adventure somewhere that literally suggests using real life brownies as a reward for finishing it. It mighta been on DM's Guild. ... Maybe Zee linked it a while ago? But also maybe not, I don't remember sorry. It's out there
If you’re in person, you can also use gummy bears (or whatever small candy) as enemy minis. Kill the enemy, eat the snack.
@@badjokezach6359 that sounds. unsanitary
That ending, i can see the inbound table flip in his eyes
Being a DM is an eternal struggle of raising new little DMs so you can finally F**king play
The Betrayal!
The one about if you’ve missed as many days than you’ve played, then yeah, campaign’s dead.
Sometimes it’s just hard to put it out to pasture when your holding that 12 gauge
I have had one come back from that. Took like a year, though.
“Tip #5”
-and that’s when I realized his animated hands have four fingers
That ending with the group dropping away to reform without him hits a little too close to home.
I wasn't the GM for the one game that happened to me in, but the GM himself metaphorically picked up the game table, invites all the other players into the next room, and locked the door on me.
Uh, wow. What brought THAT on?
@@Erhannis Yes! Explain yourself, witch! 😜
I've seen it happen. 2 different groups tried to shunt a friend of mine out stealthily while they were off their meds because the doctors and insurance were being assholes. One group functionally succeeded, but there were in another group I DM'd with them and then decided to stir up shit in my game and got it killed. The other group tried to swap to something they thought the player wouldn't like....they loved it and joined, then the players all ended up attached to the new character of that person.....except one who the DM brought in 'to keep his sanity' around them and who was a massive dickbag who caused EVERY problem in the game that the GM didn't cause himself(GM couldn't believe anything less then a truck could carry 100lbs of armor....dumbass.) then eventually the GM flipped his shit when dickbag tried to leave the game after getting pissed for the 12th time that being a dumbass didn't conform reality to his ideals and the entire thing exploded because the GM basically said he wouldn't play without that player if someone was going to leave it'd be the player(who was now on their meds again since the swap of games and being very well behaved) they didn't like....the one that 3 other players wouldn't function without because of how entwined their stories had become.....meanwhile dickweed's character was 'loner who smokes and drinks. He punches things with his fists all the time and doesn't like using guns. Has sawed off shotgun because GM forced him to have a gun since trying to punch Zerg aliens in a leather coat is suicide.' who threatened to leave the game once because the base WE WERE BUILDING ON ARRIVAL didn't have a bar yet.
Was really too bad, he was a damn good GM when it came to roleplaying and we had two dead campaigns instead of one because of him. Just....got really dumb thoughts in his head and refused to allow things he didn't like or think of to happen. He was SUPER opposed to robot limbs in starwars, couldn't believe that people in space marine armor were able to be carried by vehicles, and despite listed armor weights refused to believe them and made the lightest powered armor like 20 tons until we had a 3 hour argument to make him realize a ATV can carry several hundred pounds and that the armor made sense to be around the weight it was maybe a LITTLE heavier, it wouldn't take a semi-truck to transport a single space marine(starcraft) and in fact a large number of vehicles are MADE space marine size since the lowest level of effective armor for anyone in that universe is space marine armor.
@@Sandman382 damn that sounds like an emotional rollercoaster.
I've had quite some campaigns die, but never this shitty
That's... uhh. Rude.
I hope you found a better group but I guess _literally any other one_ would suffice.
4:10 thought he was gonna just descend into total madness and say "Nail the doors shut." XD
Well, canonically, Zee works in the game store, so he can blacklist all of them, for what that’s worth.
or lock the players inside. never letting them out.
Small tip. Give everyone a day before reminder, then a morning/noon reminder, and lastly a 1-2 hour before reminder. Try to get people to reply and comment to those messages to get people talking about it. It makes sure the game is on their minds. When the "captain" and someone else say that they will be there it shows the game is 100% going forward and you don't want to miss out.
Thank you for giving me the term "double shot". My friends and I use the term "three banger" for a 3 part DnD campaign, but hadn't developed one the 2 part yet.
After you watch the video, re-watch the 1st few seconds and it tells a different story than the 1st time you watched the video... And you can never go back...
May I just say. The poor betrayed puppy dog eyes of sadness supernova followed SWIFTLY by the deep, intense, black holes of RAAAAAAAGE was a beautiful touch.
Absolute gold; I didn't realize how much I needed to see Zee looking teary-eyed at his players.
It's okay Zee, I'll play D&D with you.
...Not this week though I'm busy.
I'm busy next week too.
People who pretend they want to play but constantly miss games or come up with excuses not to show up are the worst.
One of my best friends (outside of tabletop groups) kept up the idea that he REALLY wanted to play but “oh dangit something came up can we reschedule” for literal years (I’d estimate about 5 or 6?) until he very recently admitted that he only ever showed up to games because we wanted him to be there not because he wanted to be. He phrased it in a kinder way but at the end of the day literally anything else would take precedence over the game. Even if he agreed to a date ahead of time he would flake out if something else came up. He acted like it was because these other things were so important, but really it was just that tabletop games were unimportant to him.
None of that would have been a problem if he’d just said he didn’t care for it after the first campaign rather than 6 years later!
I’m not that fragile, I can handle it if a friend says they’re not interested. If he’d said that from the start, I’d have been mildly disappointed but I’d move on. For example, I ran a game for my parents once and while we did have fun they made it clear that they weren’t interested in playing again. I was a bit upset but I got over it right away because I appreciated that they just didn’t enjoy the game enough to be regular players. If my friend had said as much, it would have actually saved me a lot of time and effort and frustration.
So to summarize:
1. Don't do a campaign that runs forever. Start with a two-shot to feel everyone out, and run longer and longer adventures from there.
2. Be consistent. Have your games at a consistent time and make an effort to have the game regularly happen at those times.
3. Have a group of 2-4 players. This way you can lose a player or two for a session and still have a game.
4. Have breaks in the sessions so nobody gets burnt out, and the right snacks if in person.
5. Get people who like D&D the way you DM it, who like each other (including you!) and can all commit to a reasonable time frame. Wangrods will ruin your game no matter what time you play, system you use or what snacks you bring, so don't run with wangrods.
that ending was cold bruh
Always makes my day better to see new Zee
“Tip number 5!” Holds up 4 fingers
the "team captain" tip is literally how I managed to have weekly games every single week for all 4 years I was in collage. I went to the local game shop, told the owner I wanted to run campaigns, and whoever was there that weekend played. after about a month I had a dedicated group of regulars who showed up for the next 4 years with a collection of 2-4 semi-regulars who could jump in at any point. although this obviously only worked out due to the collage town situation. also, ya know, no plague...
Basically what I did too. During the pandemic, I was basically just like game's happening on these days, whoever shows up plays as long as it's three people and eventually it became a regular campaign and I've had multiple campaigns with that group since.
My personal tip, make sure it's game day. If you can't play D&D because there's not enough players or the GM just has been unable to come up with anything or is under the weather, break out the Xbox controllers, the board games, do something else with those ready to play. Always have a game backup.
This has been a struggle for me as a DM. I actually even alienated one of my players by being too pushy about the schedule and all that, which was very disappointing and I really took it hard and felt guilty.
One of the things that worked best for me and my group is:
1. Do try to pick a consistent time that most folks are available.
2. Make a simple way a few days in advance for players to confirm they're available. If they are, great, game on! If not, well, that sucks...especially if it's a string of unavailability.
3. If you're dealing with a slump, you have a couple of options...you can try a new schedule option if folks are available. You can work on other aspects of the campaign or a different campaign or a different group. I sometimes suffer from writers' block, but a few times we tried to always have an activity that time, even if it wasn't our main campaign.
However, I think it's important to accept that sometimes the grandest story, with the greatest people and characters and everything...won't ever truly be finished. This isn't limited to tabletop games...We all have stories we love, be it films, tv stories, movies...I'm always greatful when a grand and epic story is well and truly finished in a satisfying way. And sometimes, a touch sad that the story is really, truly over.
I'm even more sad though, when a story that had so much potential remains unfinished, unwritten...or is "finished" in a wholly unsatisfying way for whatever reason. The truth is, the more wonderful stories you attempt to write, enjoy, participate in...the more stories there will be that will be unfinished, or fall short. Sometimes so tragically that it can even cause sadness, depression, mourning. Stories, like people, are a deep part of our lives and our meaning, because without them, life is just sort of "existing".
If you can't enjoy that a story hasn't concluded in a satisfactory way, then I think the next best thing is to appreciate the parts of the story you WERE able to enjoy, and for the social aspects, the people you were able to enjoy that story with. Sometimes, if a campaign is well and truly dead, it can be nice to share an ad-hoc epilogue to bring closure and catharsis. Or you can even take a page from the "fanfic" community: take the "established canon" whatever it might be for your campaign, and write alternates on top of it / encourage players to make the story their own as they continue on.
Even with all that, I think it's okay to mourn the unfinished story, or the story that didn't stick the landing. If you think about it, all of us live lives that are often shorter, and less complete and narratively sensible then we would if we had "complete authorial control" over our lives...Yet even in our own lived stories, what matters the most is the journey and the people we share that journey with.
Well said. “The tree which does not fruit is meant for the fire.” I used to read that old proverb as a lesson in letting go and moving on. True though that may be, I now see a deeper meaning in it too: the fire is a fuel for future work, which uses the potential latent in that old wood to make something new! And even after it is burnt for its fuel, the char and ash are like a fertilizer for new growth. Suddenly, it’s not merely about leaving our treasures behind, but learning to see our stories and creations as the assemblages they’ve always been; amalgamations of characters and tropes and lore and clever twists and turns which can be disassembled and reassembled over and over again for the real reason we sought them in the first place: making compelling stories come to life with kindred spirits around the table, whenever the work is called upon.
God the pain of them literally not even coming to the birthday game and playing a whole other game still all together is just like. Jesus. That's 5 friends you just completely lost. Even 6 maybe in the other DM guy. Like if my friends did that to me I'd be fucking heartbroken.
My tip #6: find a way to keep them engaged between sessions. When our games went remote, I started recording and made "funny" edits of the best parts - just for the group, not public. I got better at video editing and the group loved the videos as a fun recap of the last session.
The buildings go by so quickly during the driving segments that it comes across as Zee plowing through a residential neighborhood while ranting about scheduling issues, and I love it
For 5e D&D at least, I find the ideal group size is five players and a DM, though that is solely a matter of opinion, and if you don't already have a long-running game going I can understand that being hard to wrangle.
Likewise. Five players is my preferred D&D group size. All bases are probably covered, character-wise, and one person not being able to make still leaves you with enough players to run anyway.
Yeah I really should run 5 person games, as much as I prefer balancing 4 person parties, missing one person just wrecks that session, oof!
I love how we see them having these reasons to leave as zee just stares at them only for the bullshut excuses to actually be true and they just joined him i really just *love* how that was done
My Tip #6 is: Don't mind if you have to game once a month. It's fine to do other things on the weekends, so you and your players don't risk becoming oversaturated with TTRPGs and so you (the DM) don't work yourself to death with prep and get a decent break between sessions
That ending was almost heartwarming.
6:00
Zee “I cast Burning Hands.”
Larry “this game doesn’t even have a magic system!”
Zee (leveling a lighter and some hairspray) “I wasn’t talking in character.”
Tip #6: If your players skip out on playing DnD on your birthday, only to find out that they're playing with LARRY, do what is necessary.
Tip number 6! When dealing with betrayers, aim for the solar plexus
The one and only time where I had friends wanting to get together for DnD, we never made it past session 0... our DM was kinda flaky and never put anything together, player 1 ended up heading into the Navy 3 months later, Player 2 dropped out of college and I, player 3, ended up moving out of state for a wildlife biology job. We at least made character sheets, but man, was I bummed never to have played...
As the DM and very much ‘captain’ of my group: Ive always stressed a ‘low priority’ for my group, but have always gently pushed people toward talking or playing the game as much as possible, without getting annoying (or at least I hope). I’ve got five players to manage and every single one has a full time job. Have to set expectations accordingly.
I had a friend who invited me to a discord D&D session (I moved very far). I was kinda excited since I hadn't played before. It went great. His rolls were atrocious most of the time, but at the end he pulled some of the most heroic bullshit imaginable. Next weekend I was ready to go again, but he didn't show up. It was lame... With time he stopped responding my messages and I never played again
This is so true to life, I feel like my soul is being etched out into a video.
(minus the betrayal plot twist. I wish my "would be" ex friends were that spicy)
A group I was in had a core trio who attended every session: the DM, the host, and the guy whose workplace has a flexible holiday policy. It worked out pretty well.
I actually had a group excommunicate me via slowly making up excuses why we couldn't meet then meeting without me. It didn't turn out to have anything to do with me but rather that the DM didn't want to DM for more than 4 and as the newest member I was being axed.
I feel the pain bud. Feel the pain.
I love that the text of the video is tips about starting groups, but...
the subtext of the video is searching for commiseration about the pain of losing groups when they've hit a wall.
After having a group do the whole "Oh how about next week then?" thing for SIX MONTHS, this video was a nice gift.
Wasn't another D&D table, but I had players try and pull essentially that exact thing to me. They asked me to set up a recurring game as a way for everyone to keep together after college. I quadruple checked that D&D was what they wanted to do, and made sure we had an understanding that it would be twice a month commitment, and if anyone wanted to do something different on that day, to let us all know in advance so we had time to change it up.
I would buy snacks and drinks, opened my home up to host, manage calendars, and remind people of game day. Two people constantly flaked last minute (or would just ghost) and always had something else come up that day. If they actually let me know, I would always tell them no worries, family commitments/other important stuff like that happens and take priority.
The last straw was the day they called and told me about an hour before the game that they had an emergency come up and they were so sorry they couldn't make it, but they would be busy handling that all day. Again, I told them no worries and that I hoped everyone was okay. Not 10 minutes later, one of my players, who got there early and was sitting on my couch, had his phone ring. It was the guy who just called me, of course. "Yo dude, we've got nothing going on today so me and other flake were going to the beach today! We invited too, did you want to come?"
Everyone else told them no and showed up for gameday, but needless to say I had a nice little chat with the beach bums about the incident afterwards. Turns out this also wasn't the first time they planned other things, invited everyone in the table but me, and nobody said anything to me. That happened over 6 years ago. They are still banned from my table to this day...
God that ending makes me think of when something similar happened to me. Had a former friend who ran a dnd group with a handful of people I knew which was fine, but he specifically told them to not mention anything to me, which felt worse than just simply saying I'm full up/I want to run with newbies. One of the players eventually said something to me because they felt bad and also didn't like lying about it. This same player had still showed up for a few months for our dnd sessions while he was running his game, in secret.
I know it’s a joke. But this exact situation happened to me and it really hurts. My advice to players is to talk to your friend DMing and let them know as a group you would like a new DM and story.
Thanks for finding a use for the short at 1:02 I honestly think that's one of the funniest skits you've ever done
Completely agree. The whole video was fun, but I had to watch that part 5 times in a row to appreciate the art style.
My group has done really well in this regard, we game biweekly and on our off week we hang out and shoot the shit.
We take holidays to spend time with our family and this keeps the game fresh and fun.
My first DND group I made I invited 20 people, 10 showed, 5-7 became the actual group. I figured statistically I would end up with the numbers I wanted and was correct!
My DM did that and everyone said yes so he ended up splitting it into 2 parties and running 2 campaigns simultaneously. I don't know how he does it...
@@heroiclibrarian3967 it’s called being insane, some people are and some people aren’t!
I played in a group who used that first hook, "ye it will just be a few weeks" que losing every funking Sunday for over a year to a game that felt like it would never end. I love tabletop but god don't do that to people as you feel obligated to finish the dms story and don't want to let anyone down. But you know, I want to play other games do other stuff with the friend group then only play 1 dnd game forever.
The gags are top notch, as always Zee
I mean, if you want a new group to play with all you really need is a big soundproof basement, some chains, and a baseball bat or other club like device. Maybe keep a fridge down there with mountain dew and Doritos so they don't starve and offer extra food items to good rpers.
Woo! Zee is always a good time!
I managed a group that met three to four times a week for the full summer vacation. The trick was that we had eight players and we played if at least three people showed up. It made for very fun variety among sessions, kept the momentum going through all the various arcs, and made for some very interesting party illustrations each week from our party’s artist
Yes!!! 🎉 Another video from Zee! Thanks for all of the hard work!!
Meanwhile I've got my players so focused on solving mysteries that might not even exist that they refuse to leave the campaign until they're solved.
Fantastic video and animation as always.
I noticed the “Zac” in the corner of the sheet before the scene that pointed it out, and I got really confused when you immediately assumed the character was made for you.
At first glance it looked like a poorly scribbled “Zee” so I let it slide
@@MrGladiator59 Me too. I had to go back and thought "well ok, makes sense" and carried on, thinking it was sweet. An interesting way to force the plot twist.
That was super funny. I liked how in the end Larry was sniping players from other tables. Seems like a Larry thing to do.
I respect you a lot as a content creator and D&D player, and it makes me feel good to see this video with tips on things I already try to do for players with the hopes it’ll work, (which is does by the way) and feel validated. Amazing video and animation 🔥
this is accurate and sad and i'm sad too
as a DM
i was only able to do like a few games but it was a mess because players either couldn't make it (i had 4) , didn't want to make the drive, or didn't really care about story/stopped working there (we used a meeting room at a work building)
I ran some prelimnary combat early that was just arena where i threw them in a arena and put monsters on the board for them to fight to get them used to combat, ran a spooky house test for exploration and non-combat. and did like 2 games using my short homebrew mini-campaign and it stopped before i was able to do cool reveals about the mystery and do cool monster stuff :(
played in a game online with a couple friends and had a blast, but our DM had some personal stuff happen and cut out a lot of "online time" so the game halted and we rarely saw him again.
This was an AMAZINGLY well animated episode. And the comedic timing, the content, all of it: Chef Kiss!
I like how Zee's fit a lot of creative storytelling into something as potentially simple as provided tips. The videos like this are fun!
In my group we found out really quick that a weekly game is impossible. We meet up once a month but the game is an all day session on the third sunday as that day is the only one we all don't have to work. Besides the DM we have around 7 players.
These are good tips, and Zee sounds like a pretty good GM. Some of that work he talks about, people who have clubs and throw regular parties, don't do. I feel like the primary selling point here is: do you like fiction? Yes? Would you like your fiction tailored to you and your choices? Yes? Would you like to do in a collective setting with people you like? Yes? Then come role play.
If not, solo-rpg's exist, too.
as someone who is beyond lucky enough to have a group of friends with fairly similar schedules I am truly grateful and I feel for all of those who have to FIND a group or put one together because it sounds so painful but at the same time when it works it can create great things... potentially
most dm don't talk about that it's called a mutiny for one player takes the others yeah that ends friendships but I've seen that blow up in other faces I remember one time a guy tried that once cuz he was pissed off he lost his priest tried to convince everyone else to go play no one showed up at his table that was kind of funny
As a 5 year DM, this really hit me hard because I believe I'm currently in that stage of "losing" my players, and it is the most harrowing feeling too, especially if the reason was that you had to take a month's break due to mental health issues.
I attempted to host a session for them while I was feeling okay, which was met with an hour of effectively standing still despite my best attempts to throw plot hooks at my players, they were from what I could tell, disinterested. They seemingly didn't want to continue until they finally decided to make a move in a sluggish manner and with little of the effort they usually put into the game.
That experience has now mentally crushed me and put me in a spot where I feel I am not allowed to take breaks, asking myself if I am really enough while going between telling myself that I am and that I am not.
Thanks for putting a smile on my face Zee, even though it was born out of misfortune.
Edit: And if you are a DM and have felt like I do, remember to just take a moment, calm down, and talk with your players, if they're not willing to even do that, then leave it be.
If they are no longer interested in the game, that's ok. You have more worth than just being a dm, dnd is not everything.
Frankly, sometimes momentum is what keeps a game going. And sometimes it keeps a gaming group going.
Here's what I would suggest. First, embrace the slowness in this new beginning. People will pick things up eventually and you'll be back to a more pleasant experience. Try asking your players to be specific about what would get them more interested and engaged, if you haven't already. But second, you might also offer the idea that if this game (I'm assuming you started out with a new campaign after the long break) just isn't to their liking, for whatever reason, one of them might like to try running a game for once instead. Not as a "Oh yeah? Let's see if you do any better" king of thing, but because DMing can be a lot of fun, and from the sound of it you could use a bit more of a break. Because Playing can be a lot of fun, too, and it's certainly less work.
@@thassalantekreskel5742 So I run for two groups, one is my EU group (I am located within their time zone as well so we do it in the evenings) and then there is my American playgroup which I start at midnight (my time), what we were doing is resuming the Waterdeep: Dragon Heist module as I saw that I wouldn't be able to write for two homebrew campaigns at once, so I kept my EU group as the only homebrew campaign for now.
Presently I just believe they were a little bit lost, and they have expressed that the open-ended nature of this module has been a bit too much for them as they'll sit with choice paralysis and have expressed they enjoyed my more custom PC-made story bits that were more rail-roaded as they prefer to just enjoy a story more than having to figure out 4-5 different variables.
I'm sure it'll be fine once we're back to it on a regular schedule, and I have spoken to them about our options, before I took my break it was supposed to be that one of my players was to try setting time aside to give DM'ing a try, although they don't know when and where they should even start, so I helped them pick an easy module and taught them about how to use the VTT on the DM's end of things.
Since then however nothing has come of it, despite his initial excitement for it, I definitely would've liked to have the chance to play as a player, but I am resigned to the "curse" of Forever DM™.
I think it'll resolve itself eventually.
@@matt-ti8yw Yeah I know, unfortunately I have a tendency to attach my self worth to my performances DM'ing and/or singing, so I end up mentally harassing myself whenever something goes just a little bit wrong.
We had the opposite problem.
Two of my friends and I were realy hyped on playing DnD for a long time now and we were already intrested in commiting to a campain depending on how the first session goes, but since we have basicly no expirience in Pen´n´Paper, beside playing the occasional Warhammer story-campain, we looked for a DM who had at least one or two sessions under his belt and already knows how to play. After a while we did find one, but he rescedualed our first game so often, we stopped asking all together.
I love how different people can look and still feel like they belong! It feels more like real life even when some are really cartoonish!
Can't tell which is worse, having no friends to play DnD, or having friends that are too busy to play DnD.
awesome video. I can say that I stopped playing d&d about 5 years ago when all my friend started to get married/having babies. I basically think when you are an adult you simply can't really play d&d anymore. there's always something in the way of the game. I never played a game since
This comment section is filled with people who had to let go and probably still want to play. Maybe set up somewhere online and see of that can work for you?
Lies! You just have to want to make time...
@@erikkennedy8725 say that to my old team lol
that ending. . . .I know that rage. . . .throughout the video I felt that sorrow and Betrayal. . . . this video hit hard
yep... just don't go behind your dm's game to play a different game with a bs reason. If you are not enjoying it just tell them you will make thme a service by giving them oppurtunity to fix mistakes
This video's combination of story-telling and helpful hints is immaculate.
This guy is making BROWNIES, giving breaks, and we've heard of all the rule of cool/fun rulings he's made as a DM. You sound like an amazing DM Zee. The struggle to actually play DND is real. Keep up the great work man!
I have a piece of advice that may or may not work with certain types of groups;
if your group likes going off on real-world tangents with D&D as the backdrop, let them do that! In the group I run we've all got some level of attention deficit, be it autism, ADHD, anxiety, or some combination of, and we usually end up spending about half of our 3 hour session just chatting about stuff. It's great for me as DM because I only have to prep about 1.5-2 hours of content and the rest is just a bunch of my friends and I talking over Discord about this-that-or-whatever
As someone with multiple flavors of The Spicy Brain, I really appreciate this viewpoint, and I instituted something similar into my game, it's just in character. Whenever I have to really quick check my notes or write something down or generally need a moment to organize myself, I give my players time for 'travel talk'. It's basically a chance for the players to improv and talk about their backstories or recent goings on or the new place they're at or to play road trip games basically (or whatever), as the characters travel (which is usually when I need the time to organize to prep the next area, especially if they were more efficient than I expected).
We've had all kinds of fun come from that, from emotional conversations about how the characters don't need to keep huge dangerous secrets and will always be there for each other, to revealing how our dwarf with dwarfism learned how to use an ancient necrotic magic spell because it was carved super low down on a stone wall of lore in his home and everyone else was too tall to notice (and thankfully none of the children understood how to do magic that well, but one of the stoneworkers was definitely trying to cause some mayhem, feels like a 'last day on the job that you've been fired from but still have to work on' kind of thing), to the plot twist of our cleric having an evil twin sister that I'm planning on having pop up one day, to solving the misconception that my players had that Neverwinter is a tropical climate when they were asking the season so they could comment on the weather ('never' 'winter' in a more northern area of the world is a confusing name choice).
Most people at our table are some form of ND, and as a group we quite like getting distracted and going on tangents, so this style of gameplay works well for us. Also, mini-downtime I've noticed is important in more plot heavy games, just giving the characters a chance to discuss what's going on in their lives.
"If the number of games you've played in a campaign is outnumbered by the number of games your group has rescheduled or missed... your game is dead." This is seriously the most true fact EVER. Honestly, all it takes is one month of missed play. After that, it's over, in my experience.
I'd love to find a D&D group but have had no luck, shame there isn't some service that could match DM's up with players who actually want to play.
As a DM that's been having multiple games rescheduled recently and having alot of time to think about story hooks and homebrewed magic items and just everything and everyone in my games, this was an amazing time to watch this amazing video. Thanks Zee, keep doing you.
The "tip number THREE!" cut seriously got me haha
Wait you don’t lock your players in an abandoned warehouse on the edge of town like the puppet from Saw?