The South Dakotas were built under the 35000 ton treaty, but most importantly, unlike the North Carolinas, they were designed from the outset to have 16-inch guns. As such, they required much heavier armor. To fit all that armor in 35000 tons, they had to be shorter than the North Carolinas. Of the four built, two are museum ships. Massachusetts and Alabama.
They also had to cram in a much more powerful engineering plant to get the same design speed as a North Carolina on a shorter hull. The shorter hull and better boiler layout resulted in a much more compact superstructure with a single stack, which gave really good fields of fire to her AA guns. The post-Pearl rebuildings of Tennessee, California, and West Virginia resulted in a nearly identical arrangement; I'd read at least one wag who called the three half-sisters "South Dakota Juniors."
@@JonP_4-31inf My comment was replying to mrz80's talking about the reconstructed battleships Tennessee, California and West Virginia. As far as I know they were kept in reserve until about 1960 and then they were scrapped. It would have been nice to see one of them preserved as a museum ship, since there is no surviving "standard" class ships today.
You should really travel to Mobile and do a video on board the USS Alabama! It would be really cool to see the old girl behind you in a video about her! Just a suggestion!
Very cool. My grandfather was on the South Dakota (Battleship X) Heard many stories from his time on that boat. Was able to tour the Missouri with him while in Bremerton.
SoDak didn’t lose power as a result of being hit by Japanese fire. She lost power due to an electrical problem caused by her chief engineer tying down circuit breakers and causing an overload to the main power system before she ever took a hit. She was hit by Japanese shells only because Captain Gatch-a brave man loved by his crew but an awful tactical commander who had no qualifications to command a battleship-steered the ship between a burning destroyer and the Japanese fleet, thereby silhouetting her and providing a perfect target. She took some 8” and 6” hits to the superstructure, along with a single 14” hit to the #3 barbette. Of course, an old 14” gun wasn’t going to penetrate 17” of Class A armor at any practical range, so SoDak took no damage that would actually endanger her. Had she had a better captain and engineer, it’s likely that she would not have taken much damage at all, and would have joined USS Washington in sinking Kirishima.
@@niclasjohansson4333 The best explanation I have heard is that a 14" AP shell likely hit the weather deck at an extremely oblique angle and was de-capped, then exploded against Turret 3 without penetrating. An HE shell likely would have done more damage to the surrounding area than it did. It is debatable whether or not the old 14" Vickers guns could have penetrated 17"+ of Class A armor at 11-12,000 yards in any event though. It would have penetrated the belt at that range though. I believe the early salvoes from Kirishima, which mostly missed high, were HE, but they had switched to AP by the time of the hit on turret 3.
@@bluemarlin8115 Well that might be so, however the 14" guns of the KGV class could penetrate 565 mm (ca 22") of US A/B armour at 10 km, the French 330 mm gun slightly (20mm) more still, and the European 15" rifles even a few inches more than the 330. But the were all newer more modern guns/shells !?
@@bluemarlin8115 The round that hit was AP. It hit the weather deck, as stated, then rotated to hit the barbette longitudinally, not nose on. This is called a "base slap". It then detonated down through the first deck but the shell splinters were stopped by the second deck.
Great video. Learned so much. You are so knowledgeable. As a kid I saw Kentucky hull in dry dock. My dad ran a USN tugboat and I got to see many of these ships first hand 1953 1956 from the deck.
very impressive series indeed guys!!!! you should be almighty proud. You have allowed me to explain and show my son the history of our for fathers which sadly, generation by generation, is slowly being forgotten. Thank you so much, Luke and Charlie boy!! ( from Tasmania, Australia!!!! )
Thank you for covering the preceding classes showing the Iowa class lineage. I know when designed the Iowa's were planned on using the earlier 16"/50 built for the 1920 South Dakota class which was cancelled under the Washington Treaty. How would this iteration of South Dakota Class compare to the planned British G3 and the Iowa's? Please keep up the great content, and hoping you are all keeping well.
Some parts of South Dakota survive in a “museum” park in SD. they have an outline made of railings from the ship , a barrel and three breach-blocks. Plus a museum with the history of the ship. Very interesting even to someone who has visited NewJersey, Alabama, and North Carolina.
Thank you for the video! It was very informative. I'm glad I watched the whole video as I was about to tell you that the South Dakota BB57 was built right there in Camden. My Dad was an original plank owner. The South Dakota ended her life right across the river in Philadelphia where it as scrapped. My father and the Marine boxer Eddie Maykut both snuck aboard her as she was about to be scrapped. A watchman spotted them but after finding out they were ex Marines who served aboard her, let them walk the decks one last time to say goodbye.
Please review the Colorado class 16” standard battleships. I would especially like to hear more about West Virginia post refitting. It would be very interesting to hear a comparison of WeeVee to Maryland and Colorado, compared to North Carolinas, South Dakotas, and Iowas. Third, how the technical advantages of WeeVee made her effective in Surigao Strait vs Maryland and others.
I spent several hours aboard Alabama some years back. The one comment I've always read about the SoDaks vs the earlier NCs, and that I'd observed while touring first North Carolina, then Alabama: habitability stunk, and it only got worse as the Navy insisted on sticking more AA on every unoccupied horizontal surface, adding lots more warm bodies to the already cramped accommodations. That squat hull and larger engineering plant relative to the North Carolinas really limited the living space, and there were racks and lockers all over the place. If I remember correctly, there were racks in the passageways around at least one of the main battery barbettes, and I even found a couple of fold-down racks on the bulkhead behind the switchboard in Primary Fire Control. I wonder, did South Dakota ever actually serve as a flagship? I know ADM Lee was aboard Washington at Guadalcanal. As far as battle damage, South Dakota's armor integrity was never compromised in her action against Kirishima. She even took a 14" direct hit to one of her barbettes. Overall, the armor scheme was proven to be very well thought out. It's interesting that the Iowas were "unbalanced" relative to the earlier classes, in that they were designed to be proof against the 16"/45 Mk6 and not against her own 16"/50 Mk7; even on that much hull with that much displacement, you couldn't get a ship proof against her own fire AND capable of 30+kts. Tradeoffs, tradeoffs, tradeoffs. :) PS - I'm just itching to find an excuse to come to Camden again and spend a day wandering about the old lady. :)
If you ever make it to South Dakota you can tour a little museum we have in Sioux Falls that has parts from the ol girl and see the outline of how the ship was.
Interesting and I subscribed. Brought to this because I have been teasing out a North Carolina. I had guessed the NC's keels were laid AFTER the SoDaks. This says the SDs are later and shorter. I would not have thought that. I got the impression that NC was laid @ 1936, but I'm probably wrong. The NCs were barely in service by '41, but the SDs came after them? Obviously the Iowas were the new kids on the block, but the SDs were after the NCs? Oh, and the SDs were converted to 16", but they came after the NCs, which I always thought were 16"s. We had two entirely different classes of fast battleships under development at the same time? THREE, your New Jersey! Please compare. Peace
During its last in-service refit, the Missouri was given two propellors from the Alabama. It cost far less to buy those props from the museum than to have new ones made.
@@mrz80 While the hulls were different, the majority of parts and assemblies were interchangeable between the SoDaks and Iowas. Alabama was the most advanced of the SoDak class ships, being the last of them, receiving improvements as the ships were refined during production.
Thanks for remembering Battleship X. Thanks for the videos, your informative and well presented productions pack a lot of knowledge and lore in an interesting and fun presentation. Thanks for taking such good care of the ship.
Speaking of screws, I recall you meantion in another video that NJ has 4 bladed screws outboard and 5 bladed ones in board. What's the reasoning behind this? What's the benefit of not just using the same number of blades for all screws? How does blade count affect performance? My understand is with subs 7 blades is very common, and is likely related to noise.
These are not 'Tripple gun turrets' they are 'Three gun turrets' as each barrel can be elevated independently of each other. If all three gun barrels were linked together in elevation (like a twin or quad anti aircraft gun does) then it would be a 'Tripple gun turret'.
Is there a reason why the South Dakotas were smaller that the Carolinas even though they were somewhat closer to Iowa specifications? Liked the explanation on Slipways & Rudders including the tendency for vibrations. Thanks.
Of the 2 battleship vs battleship WWII engagements; 2d Guadal was fought with NC and SD ships; and Leyte, with Pearl Harbor survivors … the mighty Iowas played greyhound to the carriers.
The Wiki article notes this: "Despite the compromises made, naval historians William Garzke and Robert Dulin would later argue that the South Dakota-class ships were the best treaty battleships ever built." The Sodaks are a better battleship class than is often realized, but the difficulty comes in with what you put into your definition of "best." Ryan's video points out a few advantages the Iowas had over the Sodaks.
in the 1992 movie " Under siege" which showed the New Jersey's sister ship the Battleship USS Missouri (BB-63) - an Iowa class battleship, film makers had to travel to Mobile, AL at the Mobile Battleship Park- where the South Dakota class battleship USS Alabama to film the movie scenes (BB-60) since the Battleship Missouri was at that time "still" on the US Navy's "Naval Vessel Register" -which meant it was still the "property of the US Navy" even though the Missouri was part of the "Reserved/Inactive/Mothball" Fleet. The film makers had to put a "black screen" around the Battleship USS Alabama BB-60- because the script called for the ship in the middle of sea at night and you can see the buildings of downtown Mobile, AL all light up at night.
I had the pleasure of standing inside the conning tower of the Alabama moored in Mobile Bay. Served in the Navy and went through surface warfare school in San Diego. Gazing out of the slit port at six sixteen inch barrels; i knew what to do. If you are going to pick up a firearm, good training makes all the difference....
Been to the Mass a few times.. stayed over night twice when being a den leader. Was great as they opened up more spaces to view than on the normal tours.
Battleship Cove- Fall River, Ma. I've been on the Mass. a couple times in my 61 years. I think 1975 was the first visit. Also visited the Alabama in Mobile Bay in 1995. Real nice condition (then).
Legend has it, the longest lasting ships are the ones that vibrate like a washing machine down a flight of stairs. Where as the smoothest running ships die early. Its funny how the universe works.
Ryan, how could battleships brace their equipment and systems from the concussion of their main battery. I understand South Dakota’s electrical and other stems were knocked out by their own main battery concussion. Why wasn’t this foreseen and fixed, and how could it be corrected. Thanks
First time they take the ship out after each refit they do figure out what breaks and whatnot, some burst pipes and some practice with, don't store that there. But the ship is pretty resilient and you learn where to put stuff.
The Philadelphia Naval Yard has a fascinating number of ships in mothballs. And I'm pretty sure the Glomar Explorer is docked somewhere in Delaware. Not to mention the poor SS United States. Even though you can't board them it would be interesting to do a video / drone survey of them.
Definitely can't bring a drone to the Navy Yard, the navy isn't a big fan of that, but we do plan on visiting the navy yard in the future for a video or several, stay tuned!
@@BattleshipNewJersey I will be looking forward to that! Your videos are very entertaining and loaded with information and interesting facts. I plan on watching them all!
I've spent about two weeks in total in the overnight program of USS Alabama through my Scout troop. I have very fond memories there, as well as USS Yorktown and Patriots Point.
Battleship New Jersey I would like to say thank you for answering my question regarding the difference between the South Dakota Class and the Iowa Class battleships, I have another battleship question why are the battleships 16 inch gun barrels covered.
Not sure what you're asking here, why are there plugs in the end? Why are there rubber bloomers around where the barrel enters the turret? In both cases, the answer is to keep the water out.
You did a comparison with the g3 battle cruisers which were paper exercises the Tillman battleships would also make a good comparison. Perhaps several videos as there were several Gilman designs with different armor load outs, speeds and main batteries
Nice coverage of the South Dakota class in comparison to the Iowa Class. I would have liked a bit more included on the North Carolina Class, especially since North Carolina herself is currently such as great museum ship in Wilmington, NC. One of the most impressive features of North Carolina today is that she has been painted in her 1944 Measure 32 Disruptive Camouflage, one of several special schemes used in WWII that are no longer employed by the navy. Maybe this is another topic you could cover in future videos.
You should come to my state and have,the big ole state girl behind you, would be awesome.. Its a little bit here in summer.. Wait, ..not sure where we have her parked as we have no ocean front here in Arizona...
I'm partial to the USS Washington, but I have to admit that the South Dakotas, with their single funnels, are good looking ships. And if you are dodging torpedoes I imagine they would be more maneuverable than either of the other USN classes of "fast" battleships.
I read someplace that the South Dakota cursed up the Norwegian coast trying to entice the German battleship Tirpitz out for battle. If that is true, or even if it isn’t, how would a battle between the two turn out? I read the Iowa class could shoot further than the Tirpitz, and was faster, so would just stay out of range and shoot at the Tirpitz until it was sunk, if the Tirpitz was inclined (or is that stupid enough) to stick around - not likely. I don’t recall the speed of the Bismarck or the Tirpitz. I do recall reading that the Tirpitz was 5000 tons heavier - 58000 versus 53000 for the Bismarck. It may be out of your area of expertise, but how could German aircraft from land bases in Norway, aircraft from an American or British aircraft carrier supporting the South Dakota, or land based British planes influence the battle? Thanks for your You Tube videos. They are informative and very enjoyable.
I was wondering what is the difference between the SD’s and the NC’s classes. The only real difference I can see in the length? They have the same weight (relatively), guns, and similar speed. Are there any big differences?
I was on a Leahy class guided missile frigate during the Vietnam War. I recall a lot of vibration on the fantail when steaming at high speed. I just wonder if that is the rule rather than the exception in most ships that do 27 + knots.
A lot would depend upon the conditions of the engagement. Day? Night? Weather & sea conditions and the other ships that the Battleships in question might be sailing with, along with aircraft that might be involved. While not a strictly historical simulation, there are several people who play "World of Warships" the computer game. It is possible to have teams comprised of one or more of the Battleships you mention and even for duplicates in the same battle scenario on virtual seas. Long story short, the South Dakota class Battleships do turn well (in the game) and are competitive versus their counterparts of various Navies. The 16" guns are capable of penetrating the simulated armor of every known battleship made and several "on paper only" designs, too. It's merely a question of range and angle of impact variables to calculate whether or not the projectiles penetrate or skip off a target hull. While World of Warships isn't perfect as games & simulations go, it does provide a close-enough approximation for a fun version of "exploratory research" to answer your question. At the end of the day, how well a Captain trains the crew and commands the ship will have a lot to do with how well it performs in an engagement.
_Bismarck_ wasn't a pocket battleship; she was bigger than a _South Dakota._ "Pocket battleship" was the British nickname for the three _Deutschland_ - class cruisers, the most notorious of which was _Admiral Graf Spee._
Perhaps you can confirm something. I have not been able to find any occurrence of an Iowa class ship engaging another battleship. Was there such an engagement?
Yes they sank a couple Japanese ships. Cruiser and destroyers but other than that they were a little too late into the war to take part in really any ship on ship duals. Most of their significance was used for bombarding shorelines
Heres a video we made on the singular time that these ships used their main guns against another ship, though not a battleship: th-cam.com/video/IwEubWYGzfk/w-d-xo.html
Yes. The SoDaks are more 'husky,' and appear more BRAWNY than an Iowa Class battlewagon. I personally feel the SoDaks are a MUCH better looking ship...
Just found this video. Father-in-law was a plank owner on the USS Indiana. Served aboard 4-42 till 11-44. He was on board then they collided with the USS Washington. Pictures of the damage are on the USS Indiana page also on Wikipedia. The ships bell from the Indiana is at the Heslar Naval Armory.
What would the Iowas have looked like if instead of invoking the escalator clauses, the US just decided to ignore the naval treaties that limited tonnage and gun size
Great video. The longer gun takes advantage of the increased propellant expansion distance. When the projectile leaves the barrel of the shorter tube, it leaves energy behind because of the shorter length. Longer is better for velocity. Higher velocity reduces time of flight and increased accuracy. An L 40 will have less performance that an l70 as an example
in 1973, as an 8yr old, i toured Big Mamie with my family. my dad was Navy (51-55) and he loved it as much as i did. my sister who was 13 was rather bored. I hope to make it back out there one day and tour her again. shes the ONLY battleship ive ever seen. BB-59 Lives!
From what I've read the Brits and Germans had the same vibration problems with their. High speed ships Bismarck ,hood. Battle Crusiers Etc they just were willing to put up with it. Speed was to close or escape , position. The US navy always wanted its cake and eat it too. Bend hevean and earth to get the dam thing perfect. Not a bad trait imho
Sorry to say this but they really should stop calling the New Jersey the most decorated ship when ships like The Enterprise had more decorations and awards. CV-6. Has more battlestars than Jersey. Get your facts straight.
Ryan, how could battleships brace their equipment and systems from the concussion of their main battery. I understand South Dakota’s electrical and other stems were knocked out by their own main battery concussion. Why wasn’t this foreseen and fixed, and how could it be corrected. Thanks
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The South Dakotas were built under the 35000 ton treaty, but most importantly, unlike the North Carolinas, they were designed from the outset to have 16-inch guns. As such, they required much heavier armor. To fit all that armor in 35000 tons, they had to be shorter than the North Carolinas. Of the four built, two are museum ships. Massachusetts and Alabama.
They also had to cram in a much more powerful engineering plant to get the same design speed as a North Carolina on a shorter hull. The shorter hull and better boiler layout resulted in a much more compact superstructure with a single stack, which gave really good fields of fire to her AA guns. The post-Pearl rebuildings of Tennessee, California, and West Virginia resulted in a nearly identical arrangement; I'd read at least one wag who called the three half-sisters "South Dakota Juniors."
@@mrz80 Too bad none of those ships were saved.
@@mrz80 it was a trade of speed for more armor
@@B52Stratofortress1 only the Arizona, Oklahoma and Utah were not repaired and placed back in service. WTH you talking about?
@@JonP_4-31inf My comment was replying to mrz80's talking about the reconstructed battleships Tennessee, California and West Virginia. As far as I know they were kept in reserve until about 1960 and then they were scrapped. It would have been nice to see one of them preserved as a museum ship, since there is no surviving "standard" class ships today.
Parts of the Indiana (prow, a mast, etc.) were saved and can be found on the main campus of Indiana University.
Cool
You should really travel to Mobile and do a video on board the USS Alabama! It would be really cool to see the old girl behind you in a video about her! Just a suggestion!
I agree
Yeah this guy is good
I think he has
Massachusetts is closer :) - hi from Connecticut
I'll even by the crewe gumbo of they decide to come down here & film an episode on BB-60.
Very cool. My grandfather was on the South Dakota (Battleship X) Heard many stories from his time on that boat. Was able to tour the Missouri with him while in Bremerton.
LOVE the SoDaks ! With a single funnel, the superstructure design looks 'more balanced" than the Iowa`s. Very HANDSOME battleships, indeed !
SoDak didn’t lose power as a result of being hit by Japanese fire. She lost power due to an electrical problem caused by her chief engineer tying down circuit breakers and causing an overload to the main power system before she ever took a hit. She was hit by Japanese shells only because Captain Gatch-a brave man loved by his crew but an awful tactical commander who had no qualifications to command a battleship-steered the ship between a burning destroyer and the Japanese fleet, thereby silhouetting her and providing a perfect target. She took some 8” and 6” hits to the superstructure, along with a single 14” hit to the #3 barbette. Of course, an old 14” gun wasn’t going to penetrate 17” of Class A armor at any practical range, so SoDak took no damage that would actually endanger her. Had she had a better captain and engineer, it’s likely that she would not have taken much damage at all, and would have joined USS Washington in sinking Kirishima.
I think that 14" shell was a HE, an AP would have penetrated at that short a distance.
@@niclasjohansson4333 The best explanation I have heard is that a 14" AP shell likely hit the weather deck at an extremely oblique angle and was de-capped, then exploded against Turret 3 without penetrating. An HE shell likely would have done more damage to the surrounding area than it did. It is debatable whether or not the old 14" Vickers guns could have penetrated 17"+ of Class A armor at 11-12,000 yards in any event though. It would have penetrated the belt at that range though. I believe the early salvoes from Kirishima, which mostly missed high, were HE, but they had switched to AP by the time of the hit on turret 3.
@@bluemarlin8115 Well that might be so, however the 14" guns of the KGV class could penetrate 565 mm (ca 22") of US A/B armour at 10 km, the French 330 mm gun slightly (20mm) more still, and the European 15" rifles even a few inches more than the 330. But the were all newer more modern guns/shells !?
@@niclasjohansson4333 Yes, the guns of the KGV class were ~25 years newer.
@@bluemarlin8115 The round that hit was AP. It hit the weather deck, as stated, then rotated to hit the barbette longitudinally, not nose on. This is called a "base slap". It then detonated down through the first deck but the shell splinters were stopped by the second deck.
Great video. Learned so much. You are so knowledgeable. As a kid I saw Kentucky hull in dry dock. My dad ran a USN tugboat and I got to see many of these ships first hand 1953 1956 from the deck.
Kentucky still partially exists - Whis-tucky. Bow of Kentucky's hull used to repair collision damage to Wisconsin with the USS Eaton.
Glad you mentioned the increased penetrating power of the SODAKs. Not something many people are aware of.
10,000 tons for an extra 6 knots!
The South Dakotas were the best Treaty Battleship ever made!
I hate this channel, it's like crack I can't stop watching. Keep up the great content.
If u fucigin hate it get the fuck out
This comment makes no sense
I know one day you will restore the Iowa to her formal glory. She's a beautiful ship and deserves the best for her long service
We're going to start with New Jersey, but we know what you meant!
@@BattleshipNewJersey yeah I meant the Iowa class in general. I'm glad you knew what I meant though.
very impressive series indeed guys!!!! you should be almighty proud. You have allowed me to explain and show my son the history of our for fathers which sadly, generation by generation, is slowly being forgotten. Thank you so much, Luke and Charlie boy!! ( from Tasmania, Australia!!!! )
Thank you for covering the preceding classes showing the Iowa class lineage.
I know when designed the Iowa's were planned on using the earlier 16"/50 built for the 1920 South Dakota class which was cancelled under the Washington Treaty. How would this iteration of South Dakota Class compare to the planned British G3 and the Iowa's?
Please keep up the great content, and hoping you are all keeping well.
Some parts of South Dakota survive in a “museum” park in SD. they have an outline made of railings from the ship , a barrel and three breach-blocks. Plus a museum with the history of the ship. Very interesting even to someone who has visited NewJersey, Alabama, and North Carolina.
whole ship was pretty much buried as much as i remember
Consistently outstanding presentation, authoritative, and thought provoking. I wish the USAF museum had similar.
Thank you for the video! It was very informative. I'm glad I watched the whole video as I was about to tell you that the South Dakota BB57 was built right there in Camden. My Dad was an original plank owner. The South Dakota ended her life right across the river in Philadelphia where it as scrapped. My father and the Marine boxer Eddie Maykut both snuck aboard her as she was about to be scrapped. A watchman spotted them but after finding out they were ex Marines who served aboard her, let them walk the decks one last time to say goodbye.
Please review the Colorado class 16” standard battleships. I would especially like to hear more about West Virginia post refitting. It would be very interesting to hear a comparison of WeeVee to Maryland and Colorado, compared to North Carolinas, South Dakotas, and Iowas. Third, how the technical advantages of WeeVee made her effective in Surigao Strait vs Maryland and others.
I spent several hours aboard Alabama some years back. The one comment I've always read about the SoDaks vs the earlier NCs, and that I'd observed while touring first North Carolina, then Alabama: habitability stunk, and it only got worse as the Navy insisted on sticking more AA on every unoccupied horizontal surface, adding lots more warm bodies to the already cramped accommodations. That squat hull and larger engineering plant relative to the North Carolinas really limited the living space, and there were racks and lockers all over the place. If I remember correctly, there were racks in the passageways around at least one of the main battery barbettes, and I even found a couple of fold-down racks on the bulkhead behind the switchboard in Primary Fire Control.
I wonder, did South Dakota ever actually serve as a flagship? I know ADM Lee was aboard Washington at Guadalcanal.
As far as battle damage, South Dakota's armor integrity was never compromised in her action against Kirishima. She even took a 14" direct hit to one of her barbettes. Overall, the armor scheme was proven to be very well thought out. It's interesting that the Iowas were "unbalanced" relative to the earlier classes, in that they were designed to be proof against the 16"/45 Mk6 and not against her own 16"/50 Mk7; even on that much hull with that much displacement, you couldn't get a ship proof against her own fire AND capable of 30+kts. Tradeoffs, tradeoffs, tradeoffs. :)
PS - I'm just itching to find an excuse to come to Camden again and spend a day wandering about the old lady. :)
If you ever make it to South Dakota you can tour a little museum we have in Sioux Falls that has parts from the ol girl and see the outline of how the ship was.
Interesting and I subscribed. Brought to this because I have been teasing out a North Carolina. I had guessed the NC's keels were laid AFTER the SoDaks. This says the SDs are later and shorter. I would not have thought that. I got the impression that NC was laid @ 1936, but I'm probably wrong. The NCs were barely in service by '41, but the SDs came after them? Obviously the Iowas were the new kids on the block, but the SDs were after the NCs? Oh, and the SDs were converted to 16", but they came after the NCs, which I always thought were 16"s. We had two entirely different classes of fast battleships under development at the same time? THREE, your New Jersey! Please compare. Peace
During its last in-service refit, the Missouri was given two propellors from the Alabama. It cost far less to buy those props from the museum than to have new ones made.
That's surprising. The SoDaks and Iowas had the same screw designs? I would've expected the different hull shapes would've dictated different screws.
@@mrz80 While the hulls were different, the majority of parts and assemblies were interchangeable between the SoDaks and Iowas. Alabama was the most advanced of the SoDak class ships, being the last of them, receiving improvements as the ships were refined during production.
Thanks for remembering Battleship X. Thanks for the videos, your informative and well presented productions pack a lot of knowledge and lore in an interesting and fun presentation. Thanks for taking such good care of the ship.
Speaking of screws, I recall you meantion in another video that NJ has 4 bladed screws outboard and 5 bladed ones in board. What's the reasoning behind this? What's the benefit of not just using the same number of blades for all screws? How does blade count affect performance? My understand is with subs 7 blades is very common, and is likely related to noise.
These are not 'Tripple gun turrets' they are 'Three gun turrets' as each barrel can be elevated independently of each other.
If all three gun barrels were linked together in elevation (like a twin or quad anti aircraft gun does) then it would be a 'Tripple gun turret'.
USS Pennsylvania had triple gun turrets - 14-inch caliber.
Is there a reason why the South Dakotas were smaller that the Carolinas even though they were somewhat closer to Iowa specifications? Liked the explanation on Slipways & Rudders including the tendency for vibrations. Thanks.
Of the 2 battleship vs battleship WWII engagements; 2d Guadal was fought with NC and SD ships; and Leyte, with Pearl Harbor survivors … the mighty Iowas played greyhound to the carriers.
The Wiki article notes this: "Despite the compromises made, naval historians William Garzke and Robert Dulin would later argue that the South Dakota-class ships were the best treaty battleships ever built." The Sodaks are a better battleship class than is often realized, but the difficulty comes in with what you put into your definition of "best." Ryan's video points out a few advantages the Iowas had over the Sodaks.
I love the old BB60 Alabama I visit often!
in the 1992 movie " Under siege" which showed the New Jersey's sister ship the Battleship USS Missouri (BB-63) - an Iowa class battleship, film makers had to travel to Mobile, AL at the Mobile Battleship Park- where the South Dakota class battleship USS Alabama to film the movie scenes (BB-60) since the Battleship Missouri was at that time "still" on the US Navy's "Naval Vessel Register" -which meant it was still the "property of the US Navy" even though the Missouri was part of the "Reserved/Inactive/Mothball" Fleet. The film makers had to put a "black screen" around the Battleship USS Alabama BB-60- because the script called for the ship in the middle of sea at night and you can see the buildings of downtown Mobile, AL all light up at night.
I’ve visited the Alabama and even slept on it overnight, such a beautiful ship
I had the pleasure of standing inside the conning tower of the Alabama moored in Mobile Bay. Served in the Navy and went through surface warfare school in San Diego. Gazing out of the slit port at six sixteen inch barrels; i knew what to do. If you are going to pick up a firearm, good training makes all the difference....
I saw this and clicked incredibly fast, I live near the USS Massachusetts and I love my ship.
I live an hour from the USS South Dakota herself
Been to the Mass a few times.. stayed over night twice when being a den leader. Was great as they opened up more spaces to view than on the normal tours.
Battleship Cove- Fall River, Ma. I've been on the Mass. a couple times in my 61 years. I think 1975 was the first visit.
Also visited the Alabama in Mobile Bay in 1995. Real nice condition (then).
Ryan you great the only remaining us battleship I need to see is uss Missouri
Legend has it, the longest lasting ships are the ones that vibrate like a washing machine down a flight of stairs. Where as the smoothest running ships die early. Its funny how the universe works.
Great content! Excellent info on the skegs
Ryan, how could battleships brace their equipment and systems from the concussion of their main battery. I understand South Dakota’s electrical and other stems were knocked out by their own main battery concussion. Why wasn’t this foreseen and fixed, and how could it be corrected. Thanks
First time they take the ship out after each refit they do figure out what breaks and whatnot, some burst pipes and some practice with, don't store that there. But the ship is pretty resilient and you learn where to put stuff.
The Philadelphia Naval Yard has a fascinating number of ships in mothballs. And I'm pretty sure the Glomar Explorer is docked somewhere in Delaware. Not to mention the poor SS United States. Even though you can't board them it would be interesting to do a video / drone survey of them.
Definitely can't bring a drone to the Navy Yard, the navy isn't a big fan of that, but we do plan on visiting the navy yard in the future for a video or several, stay tuned!
@@BattleshipNewJersey I will be looking forward to that! Your videos are very entertaining and loaded with information and interesting facts. I plan on watching them all!
I believe the gloma| explorer has been scrapped.
I've spent about two weeks in total in the overnight program of USS Alabama through my Scout troop. I have very fond memories there, as well as USS Yorktown and Patriots Point.
Just about every boy scout in the region has spent at least one night on the old lady. I fondly remember my stay.
Battleship New Jersey I would like to say thank you for answering my question regarding the difference between the South Dakota Class and the Iowa Class battleships, I have another battleship question why are the battleships 16 inch gun barrels covered.
Not sure what you're asking here, why are there plugs in the end? Why are there rubber bloomers around where the barrel enters the turret? In both cases, the answer is to keep the water out.
@@BattleshipNewJersey My question is why are there plugs in the end of the 16 inch gun barrels, sorry for the confusion.
Ah yes. The tampions are something that would be used while at sea, not just as a museum to keep water out. They work pretty well too.
@@BattleshipNewJersey Thank you for answering my battleship question, I enjoy your TH-cam channel keep up the good work.
You did a comparison with the g3 battle cruisers which were paper exercises the Tillman battleships would also make a good comparison. Perhaps several videos as there were several Gilman designs with different armor load outs, speeds and main batteries
Nice coverage of the South Dakota class in comparison to the Iowa Class. I would have liked a bit more included on the North Carolina Class, especially since North Carolina herself is currently such as great museum ship in Wilmington, NC. One of the most impressive features of North Carolina today is that she has been painted in her 1944 Measure 32 Disruptive Camouflage, one of several special schemes used in WWII that are no longer employed by the navy. Maybe this is another topic you could cover in future videos.
North Carolina Class is next week, stay tuned!
You should come to my state and have,the big ole state girl behind you, would be awesome..
Its a little bit here in summer.. Wait,
..not sure where we have her parked as we have no ocean front here in Arizona...
Thanks for sharing 😊
I'm partial to the USS Washington, but I have to admit that the South Dakotas, with their single funnels, are good looking ships. And if you are dodging torpedoes I imagine they would be more maneuverable than either of the other USN classes of "fast" battleships.
The Iowas had two comparatively huge rudders, and were surprisingly maneuverable for such long ships.
As someone who was raised in Massachusetts I am definitely not biased when I say she is better than the Iowas. Definitely not biased at all >_>
I read someplace that the South Dakota cursed up the Norwegian coast trying to entice the German battleship Tirpitz out for battle. If that is true, or even if it isn’t, how would a battle between the two turn out?
I read the Iowa class could shoot further than the Tirpitz, and was faster, so would just stay out of range and shoot at the Tirpitz until it was sunk, if the Tirpitz was inclined (or is that stupid enough) to stick around - not likely. I don’t recall the speed of the Bismarck or the Tirpitz. I do recall reading that the Tirpitz was 5000 tons heavier - 58000 versus 53000 for the Bismarck.
It may be out of your area of expertise, but how could German aircraft from land bases in Norway, aircraft from an American or British aircraft carrier supporting the South Dakota, or land based British planes influence the battle?
Thanks for your You Tube videos. They are informative and very enjoyable.
If an active Iowa class BB ran into the bridge like the Dali did, what could the damage be like? Would it be similar? How would it differ?
I was wondering what is the difference between the SD’s and the NC’s classes. The only real difference I can see in the length? They have the same weight (relatively), guns, and similar speed. Are there any big differences?
Just took the family on the Alabama last weekend it was a blast
Did the Iowa's fix the torpedo defence problems present near midships machinery spaces entirely that were an issue with the South Dakota's ?
I was on a Leahy class guided missile frigate during the Vietnam War. I recall a lot of vibration on the fantail when steaming at high speed. I just wonder if that is the rule rather than the exception in most ships that do 27 + knots.
Ryan, these videos are great and I look forward to them!
We need to build more 😎
If you ever go to the USS Alabama or the USS Drum don’t go during a cold winter day. It’s kinda cold.
Haven't made it to the new Jersey yet, but the USS Mass (Big Mamie) is super top tier.
I think the Massachusetts seen the most action
South dakota is a memorial too, just the turrets and bow
OPERATION TORCH was delayed so the brand new Massachusetts would be available.
I wish georgia would have been built.
Love my iowas north carolina. Jean bart and Massachusetts
how would have south dokota have faired against king george class battleships or say bismark the pocket battleship always been curious.
A lot would depend upon the conditions of the engagement.
Day? Night? Weather & sea conditions and the other ships that the Battleships in question might be sailing with, along with aircraft that might be involved.
While not a strictly historical simulation, there are several people who play "World of Warships" the computer game.
It is possible to have teams comprised of one or more of the Battleships you mention and even for duplicates in the same battle scenario on virtual seas.
Long story short, the South Dakota class Battleships do turn well (in the game) and are competitive versus their counterparts of various Navies.
The 16" guns are capable of penetrating the simulated armor of every known battleship made and several "on paper only" designs, too.
It's merely a question of range and angle of impact variables to calculate whether or not the projectiles penetrate or skip off a target hull.
While World of Warships isn't perfect as games & simulations go, it does provide a close-enough approximation for a fun version of "exploratory research" to answer your question.
At the end of the day, how well a Captain trains the crew and commands the ship will have a lot to do with how well it performs in an engagement.
_Bismarck_ wasn't a pocket battleship; she was bigger than a _South Dakota._ "Pocket battleship" was the British nickname for the three _Deutschland_ - class cruisers, the most notorious of which was _Admiral Graf Spee._
Cleveland Indian great Bob Feller was a Gunnery Captain aboard the USS Alabama. His bunk is marked on one of the many tours of the ship..
Perhaps you can confirm something. I have not been able to find any occurrence of an Iowa class ship engaging another battleship. Was there such an engagement?
Yes they sank a couple Japanese ships. Cruiser and destroyers but other than that they were a little too late into the war to take part in really any ship on ship duals. Most of their significance was used for bombarding shorelines
Heres a video we made on the singular time that these ships used their main guns against another ship, though not a battleship:
th-cam.com/video/IwEubWYGzfk/w-d-xo.html
I like the north Caroline class....they might not be the best but I really lime how they look.
I toured the North Carolina it was good
Big mamie and the cove is a great place to go!
You should have talked about the duel with khiroshima
The worlds most epic selfie
It wasn't just battleships that vibrated... the wonderful Normandie had very bad vibrations at first.
In other words South Dakota battleship is an Iowa without the steroids and shorter and more. Compact
Yes. The SoDaks are more 'husky,' and appear more BRAWNY than an Iowa Class battlewagon. I personally feel the SoDaks are a MUCH better looking ship...
Just found this video. Father-in-law was a plank owner on the USS Indiana. Served aboard 4-42 till 11-44. He was on board then they collided with the USS Washington. Pictures of the damage are on the USS Indiana page also on Wikipedia. The ships bell from the Indiana is at the Heslar Naval Armory.
What would the Iowas have looked like if instead of invoking the escalator clauses, the US just decided to ignore the naval treaties that limited tonnage and gun size
Great video. The longer gun takes advantage of the increased propellant expansion distance. When the projectile leaves the barrel of the shorter tube, it leaves energy behind because of the shorter length. Longer is better for velocity. Higher velocity reduces time of flight and increased accuracy. An L 40 will have less performance that an l70 as an example
OOORAHHH!!! SODAK BATTLESHIP X RAHHHH
How about 1921 South Dakota?
The key is efficiency
I don’t believe any of the Iowa’s had an electrical system failure like South Dakota did in battle.
I heard something about old Battleship being replaced at 20 years! or as new fast Battleships come out old one retired therefore NC retire Arkansas
massa shot the 1st and last wwii 16 inch shells. and i believe sd had 2 less 2ndary turrets afaik
Nice shout out to the mamie! We got our own restoration TH-cam page now!
in 1973, as an 8yr old, i toured Big Mamie with my family. my dad was Navy (51-55) and he loved it as much as i did. my sister who was 13 was rather bored. I hope to make it back out there one day and tour her again. shes the ONLY battleship ive ever seen. BB-59 Lives!
From what I've read the Brits and Germans had the same vibration problems with their. High speed ships Bismarck ,hood. Battle Crusiers Etc they just were willing to put up with it. Speed was to close or escape , position. The US navy always wanted its cake and eat it too. Bend hevean and earth to get the dam thing perfect. Not a bad trait imho
U do not say uss alabama u call her the luck A then uss Alabama
Didn't. The. South. Doakota have the same. Main guns
No, 45 vs 50 caliber....tm
I'd love to look through those ships plans and documents behind you in the ship's office.
We take appointments to do research! Email education@battleshipnewjersey.org
The Comments Section
Shoots flat
Why should we let any nation dictat how tough are ships can or can't be ?
The naval treaties existed for good reason, here's a whole video about it: th-cam.com/video/dcblpkfj3lI/w-d-xo.html
Sorry to say this but they really should stop calling the New Jersey the most decorated ship when ships like The Enterprise had more decorations and awards. CV-6. Has more battlestars than Jersey. Get your facts straight.
NJ is the most decorated ship still afloat and the most decorated battleship ever
Ryan, how could battleships brace their equipment and systems from the concussion of their main battery. I understand South Dakota’s electrical and other stems were knocked out by their own main battery concussion. Why wasn’t this foreseen and fixed, and how could it be corrected. Thanks
Good luck with getting a reply from him lol