Chevy C10 Revival - Brakes and Fuel - Rodents and Rust
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 มี.ค. 2022
- We finally get to work on the 1981 Chevy C10. It needs a complete overhaul of the fuel and brake system. Let's throw some parts at it!
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Sorry guys, the dust cap pliers are a VIM V214, but no one has them.
www.zoro.com/vim-tools-vim-tools-vim-v214-heavy-duty-hub-dust-cap-plier-black-oxide-finish-vim-v214/i/G603951935/
I always use channel lock water pump pliers works fine it's a oversize pair of channel lock pliers
No wes before you ever tear it apart pay attention to where the short shoe is get the short shoe right an you got it first time around
When I was taught how to use the brake lathe, I was taught the same thing. The reason I was given was to knock down any burs and create like a cross hatch but just super light. Supposedly helps bond the rotor to the brake pad faster and promotes a longer life. I personally haven't noticed a difference.
Smallest cold chisel I own does the job and takes up less toolbox space.
I have the snap on version (GPC10) that are 20-30 years old. Don't know if they are still available new but they are on ebay used.
I'm 62 years old, so I cut my teeth on drum brakes. I have always found them more difficult to reassemble than disc brakes. Back in the day, I would only change one side at a time and refer back to the opposite side for placement of shoes, springs, cables, etc. This worked well most of the time, unless the person before you didn't reassemble them correctly. Then it was a cluster. Remember that cell phones with cameras weren't even invented back in the 70's, so you couldn't take a picture easily. If you were lucky like me, my Dad had some old Motor's repair manuals that had photographs of the assembled brakes.
I have to respectfully disagree with folks who wax poetic on the virtues of drum brakes. Most of my early brake jobs and driving experiences were on 1st gen Mustangs, 1964.5 to 1966. All of then had 4 wheel drum brakes and they royally sucked. You never knew which way they were going to pull the car after sitting overnight. Sometimes hard left, sometimes hard right. I developed the habit tightly holding the steering wheel before the first brake application of the day, so the steering wheel wasn't jerked out of my hands.
Also, if drum brakes got wet (for example you ran through a deep standing water) they would not stop very well. As in very minimal braking until they dried out. And it could take up to a couple of minutes for them to dry out. My first car with disc brakes (on the front) was a 1974 Formula Firebird. I was astounded that it would stop normally even if the brakes were soaked.
I'm sure I'll get some hate from this post, but that's OK. Everybody hasn't the same experiences as me.
I'm right with you...drums totally sucked when they got wet. Almost no stopping. I remember changing the rear shoes on my 66 Valiant (not a performance car by any means). Next day I was driving down a steep hill and needed to make a turn at the bottom. Pressed on the pedal and all the way to the floor. So I didn't turn. One of the rear springs had popped out of the shoe, because I assembled something wrong. Managed to nurse it home and fixed it again.
Hay Britt. I’m like you and I cut my teeth on drum brakes. I’m 69 years old and still wrenching on my trucks. At one time I could put a set of brakes on even if someone else had taken them apart and just put the parts in a box. But today I use my cell phone and take a picture. 🤓
Yes sir, a good few of us senior mechs know exactly what your talkin about.
One of my first brake jobs was on a Ford 8-N tractor. It came back a few days later, because it had one side that wouldn’t stop. Apparently I put one spring in wrong, which caused a squeak. The farmer oiled the daylights out of that brake trying to stop the squeak. In the process, soaking the new pads in oil. We pulled off the pads, burned all the oil off with a torch, corrected the spring, and problem solved.
@@robertheinkel6225 Drum brakes are acceptable on a farm tractor though.
Drums were all we had when I was a young guy turning wrenches. You developed a feel for where things went, and how to deal with holding things to avoid spring launches. All of that was from sheer repetition. Self adjusters worked in non-rusty area where I lived. Now, that said, I haven't touched a drum in so many years I would be as frustrated as you are.🤣
Keep up the good work!
I did my first brakes around 1959 when a HS freshman in my dad's shop. I found it easier to "build" them on the backing plate. I could do them blindfolded after a while. I smiled when Wes was puzzling out which parts to use.
Why am I still watching? Where I grew up, if you weren't doing stuff like this to your 10 year old car, you weren't driving. Brings back some long forgotten memories to watch these. Except I was working on a car on jack stands in my dad's driveway. Once I start, I can't look away, and I always feel rewarded that I stuck with it. Sincere thanks, Wes.
Best comment "Non-Scotty Kilmer approved coupling." :)
What better way to enjoy my Birthday then sitting home alone, without friends or family eating some pizza and watching Wes work. Thanks for the great show!
24:10 I did many GM drum brake jobs as a mechanic.
Some backing plates had knock outs in the backing plate and others had slots in the brake drums you could knock out for the star wheel adjusters.
WES! Good morning! If anyone can restore the Titanic, it's you. love, "I don't see any big leaks" and the bearing packer, where in hell has that been all my life. Always enjoyable to watch, Thanks!
Real men pack bearings by hand! 😅
@@mariosaccoccio1688 Yeah I've had my share over the years!
Wes, you always crack me up with your commentary. And I love it! “What about the cap? Full of grease? None? Why are you still watching this?” Because you’re good at what you do and we all know it (even if some prefer to complain). Thanks as always for taking the time to share - I know you’d get a lot more done if you didn’t have to do the whole TH-cam thing. I certainly appreciate it!
I had an old school mechanic tell me that grease insulates and holds in the heat. Too much grease causes the bearings to heat up. Heat shortens the life of the bearing.
With a bearing buddy, when you back a boat trailer with hot bearings into cold water the chilling of the hot hub and bearing draws water into the hub. Also shortening the life of the bearings.
Thanks for posting great videos. Way better than the crud on network TV.
I loved having 4 wheel drum brakes on my 1st car. Nothing more fun in the rain than wondering if you are going to stop or not. I rolled thru too many stop signs for my comfort so I swapped to disc brakes as soon as I could.
Well, when I see the same things in my job: the "need" to find the cause of a fault, waking up and asking "did I tighten that timing belt tensioner after the phone rang"?, dealing with bad parts- time and again. This isn't just a career, it's a syndrome. Thank you for making this channel as it helps support everyone who has fixed things for a living and wondered "Is it just me?" No it's not just you, there's more of us out there🤪.
Drum brakes "work", about the same way that breaker points "work". They function but compared to newer designs they suck. The gold hold down spring is shorter because it goes over the self adjuster lever pivot. The green one is longer 'cuz it don't.
I don't know if you checked shoe to drum fit. These self-energizing types have to have contact with the drum surface only in the center of the shoe. There has to be slight gap at the ends of the lining (toe-heel clearance, ie the shoe radius is smaller than the drum radius).
If the shoes have full contact, then once they wear in, you will have rear wheel lock up under almost any brake apply.
Keep on "doing it right!"
I remember when I bought my first car in the seventies, shops would charge twice as much to do a disc brake job than a drum brake job. Having done my share of drum jobs and watching my dad at his shop do them, I was astounded how easy my first disc job was. I would rather do a hundred disc jobs than one drum. If you have the right tools the springs and such are just a memory exercise. But once a lip is worn in the drum, it’s like shaving a tiger’s ass in a phone booth to get them off. Great vid Wes.
I had some bad experience trying to get worn drums off. Your description is perfect!
Milenials (sic) probably don’t understand the concept of a phonebooth
@@b-genspinster7895 The oldest millenials are 41 years old, so...it'd really depend on where they came from. Being 30, and having spent most of my life in Arkansas (which was about 10 years behind everywhere else for most of it), I do remember pay phones, but proper booths? Only seen them in movies, because I've never lived in a major city.
Long story short: we're definitely older than you seem to think we are. We're not 15 - try double that, at our youngest.
@@NaruSanavai LOL!!! Phone booths existed everywhere. In the ‘big’ city and ‘out in the country’. The latter not really really being in existence anymore. Way to many people now.
@@b-genspinster7895 Okay? Not sure why you needed to take a condescending tone- oh wait, you did 'cause yer old as shit and "never wrong".
I have a 1966 Plymouth Belvedere Drag Racing Car, that I drove in the early 1990’s. It had Manual 4 Wheel Drum Brakes. My fastest time was a 12.56, over 100 mph. There is a reason the brake pedal was wide enough for two feet, and I used them both to get the big car stopped. They were better than nothing, I would not covert a car from Disc Brakes to Drum Brakes. As far as assembly, I always have to take a picture or lay out everything exactly how it came apart. I’m sure most younger mechanics have very limited experience with drum brakes. Thanks Wes for sharing your skills, time and videos. Very much appreciated.
Hey Wes, in Service Tech Level 2 they taught us just put a small amount of grease in the middle, the reasoning was that if you pack it full it can pop the rear seal and leak grease out once the rotor and bearings warm up. I've done it both ways and never had an issue...
True, if you listen to some people it seems grease expands to double its original size with the merest hint of warmth, I've never seen any hint if this, otherwise dust-caps would be blowing off all over the place!
Wes, I grew up on drum brakes being an old guy. I agree that the disc system is better, but drums can be slightly easier on gas as the return springs (if everything is right....and never is) pulls the pads completely off the drum surface (less drag). I can do drum breaks in my sleep so they don't seem as complicated to me. Things to note (as you did)....Larger pad faces aft and is also a softer compound. The primary/secondary thing is for "self-wrapping" and why drums stop much better going forward than in reverse. Chrysler used to have a screwy system with leading and lagging shoes but that was back in the 1950's and before. Back to these "new" drum brakes.....the forward facing shoe grabs onto the drum and tries to follow it around driving into the adjuster and then driving the bottom of the rear facing shoe.....making the rear facing shoe driven into the drum by both the front shoe's wrapping force and the wheel cylinder at the top.....hence the need for more material. As for the retainer springs.....The one that retains both the shoe and the self-adjuster is the shorter one (forget the color). As you know, driver side star adjusters are left-handed thread so you should not mix them up or the self-adjusters will actually loosen the brakes......BTW: I worked as a mechanic through the 1970's to pay for engineering school. A lot has changed over 50 years. I love your practical approach to being a good mechanic and when to do it by the book and when to "wing it".
YOU HAVE COVERED THE THEORY OF HOW DRUM BRAKES FUNCTION 100% CORRECTLY.
Excellent description on how they work, I was told to call them " Leading" or "Trailing" shoes, I had 1973 BMW R50/3 motorcycle, it had twin leading shoes ( 2 cams), that was very good in its day. On smaller bikes, I have bedded them in by using chalk, then filing the profile. Similar to using Hi-Spot blue to find high spots, before scraping sideways etc. My father showed me this trick.
I don't think I'll go so far as to say they generally sucked, but they certainly had problems and limitations that largely don't exist today with disc brakes. If you knew how to manage drum brakes you could work around many of the problems _if_ you knew what to do. I can't really recall problems with the car pulling to one side in the morning except a few times. Breaks going away in water was a much bigger problem, and well known by most drivers. The workaround for both cases was to drag the brakes lightly for a minute or so to heat them up and drive the water off. Of course this presumed you weren't going to run into something before you got them working again. Since you might have one side more wet than the other, you needed to be hanging onto the steering wheel when you started to ride the brakes, since they could pull violently to one side or the other at first.
Another big problem was brake fade with heat if you rode the brakes. This was a big problem for long downhill runs, especially on twisty mountain roads. If you were smart you downshifted and didn't go fast downhill when you had to do a lot of braking, and if you did have to, you needed to feel when the brakes were starting to fade, and get stopped someplace for 20 minutes while you still could stop someplace.
That is the first time I have ever heard someone explain why there is more material on the trailing shoe. Good job. (another old guy) I have four wheel drums.
drum brakes also better on EVs/hybrids where if the regen is high enough - you might not even use your brakes and they'd just rust up completely if they were discs.
In my Army days, we were told extra grease in the cap for "field" maintenance.
Your own shop with nobody borrowing tools and hiding stuff sounds like heaven.
How I remember those brake lathes. I turned so many drums on a machine like that 50 some years ago. Back in the day when you could turn drums a couple of times before you had to throw them away. Glad to see one restored and in use. A lot of shops don't even use them anymore. They just throw them away and buy after market rotors and drums. A also enjoyed seeing the bearing packer. Another tool you don't see much of these days!
You know it's going to be good when you see a hood full of parts and a 57 minute video. Thank you!👍
I can't believe the owner is dumping all that money into the truck. That thing is ROACHED.
I totally agree with you Wes on those old "adjusting" drum brakes. Although we got use to dealing with them back in the day they were still a pain in the wahtoosey. And it seems almost sinful to put all those new parts on all that rust. It at least makes me wanna blast it all down and start painting. 🤔
Yup, and I used to knock the worst of it off with a wire brush, until someone told me that I was exposing myself to asbestos dust by doing that, and should leave well enough alone. Ah well.
Well, if you had your vehicle in for a 'tune-up' every 25,000 miles or so, it's easy to adjust drums at the same time.
I think the customer is just feeding the rust.
Feeding the rust = well put. Spending thousands on a $200 truck. Scrap it!
@@edkalsbeek1765 Tried to find a running vehicle lately? Seen the price of trucks lately?
Drum brakes used to work okay. They weren’t brilliant, but they worked. Drums always took a lot of maintenance and it was considered ‘normal’ to have to pump the brakes before you thought you might have to use them so they were ready to go, especially on British cars.
I remember when disc brakes first came in in the late ‘60s, early ‘70s. They weren’t ventilated, were heavy and didn’t work in the rain. The cars came with instructions to ‘ride’ the brakes to dry them out in wet weather!
They have improved out of sight since then and are so good now that if you can convert to discs, you’d be crazy not to.
Another sublime video, Wes.
It must be remembered the vast majority of Heavy Truck and Trailer brake systems are drum brakes, which work very well, are easy to maintain and are cheap.
Chevy drums are enough to send any mechanic to the funny farm. I'm a Ford guy, but I have had the mis-fortune to help a friend with a chevy brake job.
Enjoy hearing that engineering sarcasm in the beginning! From what I recall those rear pads would last forever because they didn't do much braking. You would go through two sets of front brakes before you had to touch the rear pads. Like a rube goldberg exercise putting those rear shoes all back together! Nice job, as usual!
Watching you dismantle that drum brake brought to mind the words "Rube Goldberg" for some reason, nope no reason involved. Wes, I could watch you and yours for hours. Your sarcasm mixed with your mechanical abilities makes the time fly.
I guess it's all in what you've grown up with. Four wheel drum brakes were ubiquitous on American cars until front disc brakes showed up almost universally in the late 1970s, I believe. They didn't have near the stopping power of discs, pulled like hell if they weren't adjusted, and didn't work at all when they were wet. When I watch you use the various scan tools you have, paging through the different screens, checking a gazillion different parameters, sensors, and phases of the moon in several clicks, it's makes my head spin. Love the grease seal trick.
God Wes, you are so good at fixing stuff, because you actually give a shit about how you do you're work.
Even though I have not done a set in probably 30 years, I'm with you Wes, drum brakes suck. Disc brakes, even when rusted ( I live in Ohio) are easier.
When I was a kid in the 70s I did a set of drum brakes and did not know there was a primary and secondary shoe. I put both primaries on one side and both secondarys on the other. Well the brakes dragged and smoked. After a mile or so I decided to take them apart and re do. I was lucky. I did not damage anything. Also had rusted springs fall apart and make scraping noise. The really cool part was you could see what was wrong without extended electronic diagnostics and thousands of dollars worth of modules. It was simple stuff a kid with no money could do.
A previous owner had put short shoes on one side and long on the other on a Volvo. Didn't cause a problem.
Hey Wes, that's, all we had growing up, that's all we had growing up in 60's 70's.
I worked on a LOT of drum brakes back in the sixties and seventies. Why anyone would remember them fondly is deeply mysterious! They were a 14 carat pain in the bollocks. There was a good reason for their replacement by disc brakes.
I remember my dad telling me about self-adjusting brakes in the late 1950’s or early 60’s. They actually do work, but manual adjustment might still be needed. Today’s modern vehicles require stepping on the brake pedal for keyless start and moving the AT shift lever, but years ago people were adjusting their brakes without even knowing it simply backing out of a driveway. (And I grew up in the rust belt too.)
Yeah, I have a couple vehicles with 4 wheel drum brakes. One of them I drive a lot and every 150-200 miles you can feel them adjust up and I notice it when backing out of the driveway. The 11X2.5" drum brakes put on 64 galaxie's are surprisingly powerful when everything is working properly, I've about thrown myself through the dash multiple times with plenty of pedal to spare.
Well, I'm an old guy, and I agree that drum brakes are hard to work on, (although the only vehicles I mess up are my own). As far as stopping power, since my original driving experience was in vehicles with drum brakes on all four wheels, I also agree with you on that, I remember that if you were gonna stop, you had to submit a plan, well in advance of the event. Enjoy your videos, thanks.
Totally agree with the "submitting a plan ,well in advance" theory. lol... It may have made us older guys little better drivers as we knew to keep an eye out for braking events.
Very apt on "submitting a plan", Jaguar cars with these new disc brakes had a warning badge on the rear stating " Disc Brakes", in 1950/60's, they used them first in the 24 hour Le-Man race.
My Uncle always told me "ya gutta ride the brake in a rainstorm". I was coming home from work in my old Caddy and it was pouring out. I was coming down a hill and a woman was sitting in a Corolla at the red light there. She wouldve been dead if i didnt see a driveway that bypassed the intersection. I tried Unkys idea too late... the old Cad acted like it was on ice. I saw her as I passed over that driveway hump onto the main drag and drove away. It was a Sunday morning and everything was quiet on the road thank God. Yes Drum brakes suck, even on them "brakes thatll put ya through the windshield" Caddys from the 60s. Love that bearing packer. You know I have to point out you didnt stick the rubbers in on the master cylinder cap.👍
Wes one of favorite parts of the video was the re surfacing of the rotor. I remember as a boy watching these machines resurface drum brakes.
Thirty year brake technician here…you did them correctly. Good job!
Hi Wes, great film as always. I was born in 1956 so I'm from the drum brake era. But if a kid steps off the kerb into the road infront of me, I'll be pleased I've got discs on all four corners. So will the kid!! 🖖👍👊😊
I also grew up working on drum brakes and agree with every comment about them being a PITA. If I don't watch the video and just listen to the commentary, it's still entertaining because I can relate to the frustration. Impressive that you bench assembled the left set upside down on the bench! I'm not used to all the rust, but it's still fun watching an old beast come back to life. Thanks, Wes.
I don't miss the days wrenchin in NC. Once I moved to CO, I bought a 83 S10 for parts. I was amazed at how easy things came apart. Rust just adds so much more time
Wes, I was so happy to see you lube the backing plate on that old truck. I've always done that but never seen anyone else, in person or on youtube, take the time for this little extra.
Good morning everyone and thank you Wes for doing what you do, especially sharing it with us!
Man I want one of those old brake lathes. My grandpa had one that would not only do drums and rotors, but also would match cut the brake drum shoes to the drum size.
Drum brakes were a big thing to learn in shop class in the 60's. Became second nature for this DIYer. But now a picture of the as-found condition is a big help. As for performance, they stop ok on the first application, but when the get hot, they fade. As for assembly, I always pin the shoes on the backing plate first and then assemble. It makes a 3 hand assembly work with 2 hands. Self adjusters rarely work for long.
Your intro was so true...both parts
The people that own that truck have the most realistic goal: drivability. Hell, with today’s vehicle prices it’s not unreasonable to put $1500-$2000 into that old girl to have a usable truck.
@T.J. Kong I agree. Car insurance on something new is much more espensive too.
@T.J. Kong I agree, but you also have to start with a somewhat solid base. That truck is junkyard bate due to rust.
That old Chevy and mine have a lot in common in high school I had a 87 camaro nothing special plane Jane but she was everything to me and I got older and really needed a truck so I traded her in and I regretted it ever day so now in my 40s I found a 91 for $1000 and been trying to get her on the road again after been sitting in a barn for 10 years it’s a struggle but I will get there one day. Awesome work wes keep inspiring people like me to get out there and get it done.
I've always wanted a third gen
I worked in a neighborhood service station on the north side of Buffalo NY, when service stations actually did service, from 1967 to 1972, until I graduated from college. Drum brakes were the rule, not the exception in those days and they were a giant pain in the rear. Disc brakes were just becoming into use when I went on to other things and I have no experience with them. I still have my brake pliers, nail hold-down removal tool, brake adjustment spoon and wheel cylinder brake hone, because in those days, if the wheel cylinder was leaking, we rebuilt it, we did not replace it. I also lost a set of calipers that we used to adjust drum brakes that did not have a slot in the backing plate and I lost my wheel cylinder clamping tool over the years.. If I ever had to do a set of drum brakes again I'd have to get some technical help. I do remember that drum brakes for the big 3 while similar, had differences that drove us nuts. And those self adjuster systems were not worth a damn.
The joys of old trucks never end. They are a money pit until the end! 💰 Hopefully it gets used once all the repairs are complete. It'd be a shame to see all those new parts go to waste.
This customer's patience will be rewarded with a steady, reliable ride! Looks good so far. You should start a rust recycling service - you're already moving a ton per episode - maybe it's be used for fertilizer or sumptin....
It's nice to see things done the "old school" way.
Wow! Thank you Wes for a trip down memory lane. I was taught to sort out primary and secondary shoes by remembering " Big to the Back". Also, in regards to the amount of grease in the hub we were taught to just coat the inside of the hub and dust cap to prevent rust forming. The bearings were to be properly packed of course. Great video! Thank you.
Protip: if you stupidly put the same length shoes on the same drum, one of them will auto adjust out until the brake fully locks up and your brother with a brake spoon has to come rescue your dumb teen self.
Good old brake lathe work some of us still use them not all customers want to just replace rotors or drums there not always cheaper for replacements over Lathe Cutting came out nice and good looking old Machine 👍 @Watch Wes Work
When I started working on cars, the only brakes where drum brakes. My 68' Olds 442 had drum brakes. The rear brakes on my 2004 Sienna are drum brakes. I have replaced drum brakes many times over the years and they are a pain but they always worked well when I got done. Maybe compared to disc brakes they weren't great but disc brakes weren't around so we didn't know better. The brakes on that Olds worked really well. They were over sized since that thing could really get on down the road. Drum brakes are a pain to work on. You do have to pay attention. I typically do one side at a time so I can refer to the other side if I have a question about the assembly. The only tools I ever used were, vice grips, screw drivers, regular pliers, and, a hammer. Disc brakes do work better but they have problems drum brakes don't like sticking guide pins and pistons. Drum wheel cylinders do fail but usually toward the end of the brake shoe life.
I learned drum brakes when I started driving and all of my prior vehicles had them. Being only 27yr old I often help others learn when they dive into drums for the first time.
you gotta love the simplicity of old chevy trucks, dad had them from the 60s thru early 90s models.i learned a ton workin on those old trucks.maybe thats why i ended up a ford man.stranger things have happened.will still take an old truck over a new one any day.
Just watching you take off the wheel cylinders on this, it reminded me of a 1978 K20, ALL the wheel cylinders and caliper bolts snapped ... it was a complete brake system rebuild, including the E-brake cables ,,,, what a pain in the butt that job was
I started doing brakes professionally in the early eighties so drums were still a thing. Best advise I can give is always completely build the rear shoe first with the return spring. Put the adjuster spring on first, run the adjuster in all the way in and stretch the shoes apart and put the adjuster in. Also pitch the spring pliers and get a spring tool like Mac S13P, life will be a lot easier. As a side note there should be an outline of an adjuster cutout in the backing plate. Sometimes GM didn't punch them all the way out. It's probably obscured by rust in this case.
Hey! A fellow Zonie!
@@laknox88 Yes I am 🤠👍
I got one of those brake pliers tools after years of vice grips and screwdrivers, etc. Used it once and haven't since. I was surprised seeing Wes struggle. Its guess common for people to dislike something they don't understand.
@@emersonaz Chandler. You?
@@laknox88 Laveen
Thanks for the videos. Disc brakes outperform from brakes. Most drivers don’t know drum brakes in good working order can self adjust but only when backing up and stopping. Some drivers never back up (circular driveway and pull through parking spots so brakes may never self adjust). Huge drum brakes good for semi truck trailers.
I used to think brownish “brake dust” on wheels was from brake pad wear but found it’s actually particles from rotor wear hence the oxidized metal orange/brown color.
There are also drum brakes that self adjust by the handbrake
@@philtowle4683 Jeeze, I'd forgotten about those. Ah, the memories....
That Snap On transmission stand is gold. Worth the money. 👏👏
That Aamco lathe takes me back to my old shop days! The sights & the sound are familiar, but that smell is missing. Even that black dust in your nose!
Hi Wes, Really enjoying your channel. You can get parts for the C10 at Classic Industries, found it in their catalog. They are here in CA but run free shipping specials all the time. I just ordered glass for my 57 chevy. All the work you are doing on vehicles bring back a lot of memories to this old mechanic! Keep it going.
Drum brakes suck, so I just made the horn louder. Thanks for another great video! Happy to see the PPE
Like your style with horn.
I work on heavy trucks and have always wondered why auto manufacturers didn't use a smaller, hydraulic version of s-cam drums?? They are SO SIMPLE and work really good on big trucks, some would say they work better than air discs!
We have a number of square cab trucks. Only one is running its a 82 3/4 ton we use for a yard dog wrecker. I bought these square body trucks years ago when no one wanted them. Parted them out to fix 60 thru 72 trucks. We sold a viable project today. It was a 83 GMC high serria. 2 wheel drive. We included a rust free cab and rearend in the deal. My wife made a U tube video of me using our 83 wrecker to load it on the buyers trailer.
Wes, you deserve some kind of a special recognition for your unique attitude toward these projects. Your whole " never admit defeat" demeanor is unique and a positive effect for those of us who wait impatiently for the next adventure ! Dungivup !!
I've never been accused of being an optimist.
@@WatchWesWork Pessimists are rarely disappointed.
i love the saturday morning videos wes ! from a fellow enthusiast from the rust belt of Quebec !
my goodness have we lost our spring in are step? Time for spring to come and get over the old gloom. Can't wait for the old guy to show up again
That looks just like my '81 3/4 ton , 4x4 . white with rust highlights .. holes in every conceivable spot. That was bought 20 yrs ago, she's a beaut now only a few holes , after a complete body swap a couple yrs after it was purchased. Wow what a project .
Keep at it . I know you can do it.
Thanks for the videos Wes I still enjoy Mechanical things to fix .. Just not the newer electronic stuff.
Pup is all "I'm telling you man...there is a mouse in it!"
“Why am I still watching this?” LOL. ‘Cause I love the detail coupled with your insights and advice.
You sir are not only a master of your craft but also a brilliant comic. It is the latter that I find most entertaining. ~ulrich
Wes, first time caller, long time listener. Gm rear drums are fabulous. They last forever if they’re taken care of. Btw those are self adjusting, but the star wheel was originally used with the trap door plug on the backing plate are for periodic adjustments.
And hey next time you’re in the quad cities, stop by Shumaker Guitar Works 😎
Drum brakes are easy if it’s what you learned first and 4wheel drum brakes when adjusted well have a smooth braking feel. I’m sure the only reason they ever went away was disc brakes are lighter and supposedly safer. From a mechanic perspective discs are certainly easier as a pad slap takes a quarter of the time.
drums also have more pad area for a given size and are self-energizing. manual drums are surprisingly powerful. they're really good for stopping once. they just don't cool off as quickly as discs, and i'd much rather work on discs too haha
Never in all my days have I seen so much rust on a car. I love the way you start out gently levering the brake caliper then quickly resort to beating the snot out of it. 🤣
No good asking me for advice.
Your teaching me.
I enjoy your videos and does not matter how you do something, someone will always have an opinion.
It’s funny that you mentioned the “bearing buddy” for trailer wheel bearings , because that’s what I think about while I’m contemplating about how crazy to get while greasing and installing wheel bearings. I guess I figure , pack em slam full and let her rip. But now when you mentioned “would they get too hot “ with all that grease and no room to breathe, it’s got me wondering again. I enjoy all your content. Thanks (Seth from North Carolina)
They work best for boat trailers. It keeps slight pressure inside the hub, to prevent water from entering, when the warm bearings cool off quickly hitting the water.
Watch out for bearing buddies. Sounds good in theory but full of grease, grease has nowhere to go except inside past seal when hub gets hot - all over the brake pads/linings. Bearings great - brakes not so good.
I love these trucks. Little bit of unsolicited advice i just thought I'd give from my experience. It doesn't look like you had a problem here, but, be weary of those rebuilt calipers...some do not come with bleeders..and i went thru 3 on one side that would not take the old bleeders out of my calipers. The threaded hole was too big. It took a few tries to get a good one, but, i finally did. They are good quality though. That was in 2009 and they are still on there running strong.
As far as the gas tank goes, i put a new 20gal in mine. I got it from lkq, and i think they sourced it from goodmark. So there is other options besides lmc. You might have to call lqk though...they don't have a great online presence. I was employed there at the time, so I probably got a good deal on it, but, i wanna say i paid $90 for that tank. I could be wrong. But it was real nice, painted with anti corrosion and all.
You clearly don't like drum brakes...but, mine are of the heavy duty (jp5) variety. I have had my truck for 16 years and have only had to clean and adjust them twice. They have never needed replaced. Yes, they are complicated...but they sure are reliable. I don't think id want them as fronts though, i guess. Admittedly, my truck doesn't get a whole lot of use now days...but it used to be my daily for 5 or 6 years. And it has done a lot of truck stuff over the years. It's full of rust like all it's brothers...but i wouldn't trade it for anything.
As kids we would change out drum brakes front and rear. Usually on a weekend afternoon. I do not recall it being as intricate as you have portrayed. Likely cause we just used all the same springs and clips over again. Also would only do one side at a time as to do otherwise ment certain disaster. Disc brakes - any day over the drum brakes. I Enjoy your channel Wes.
Hundreds of those old squarebodys sittin round in west Texas, no rust, many still running!
Roughing the surface on rotors is to reduce the record player effect, that's where the pads want to follow the groove like a needle in a record player which forces the pads either inboard or outboard which causes noise.
I dunno. Maybe. But that should be gone in a few miles.
@@WatchWesWork Yea, agreed. I think it's a customer service thing so that there is no brake noise when they pick up their car.
i grew up working on drum brakes, it was all there was in the 60's, and in some cases you bought the friction material set and had to rivet it to the shoe with copper rivets provided, (esp on m/cycles) imagine how well that went sometimes....😁 the complications came with the handbrake (here in UK) and the manual adjusters seizing up constantly with salt/rust, i much prefer discs, drum brakes were feeble compared to later disc types, on the rear of cars they are single leading shoe only, some m/cycles moved to twin leading shoe but they were still feeble by later standards
I very done drum brakes a couple of times. I'm so glad a pro like you dislikes them as much as I.
One word of wisdom when doing drum brakes. Even if you put it back together the way it came apart that doesn't mean that the last guy who did them had it right:)
It is a long time, probably more than 50 years, since I worked on any drum brakes, often on both front and rear axles, but none were ever as horrendous as that set up. Self adjusters never worked far away from the drawing board, though the ones I saw had a manual override, (or underride if you prefer). How anyone built-in the malicious desire for freedom that the springs had, I never did workout.
Still polishing the brass on the Titanic. I just about spit out my desert. Thank you Wes
You are far too cynical Richard - but 100% right. Devious engineering minds hated the mechanics who had to work on engineers' contraptions - or so it seemed. Bob - retired mechanic from Land Down Under.
As a forklift mechanic 60-70% of brakes I deal with are drum brakes.
A lot of problems are due to mismatching after market parts - such as shoe linings of the incorrect thickness so they don't match the radii of the drum correctly or things like sef adjusting mechanisms not being assembled correctly.
They have their advantages, a duo-servo type set up will have more braking power than equivalent diameter disk brake and can achieve greater performance without servo assistance than a disk due to the self servo action of the drum brake assembly. Shoes also last a lot longer than disk pads - I can can count on one hand how many sets of brake shoes I've changed because they've worn out, nearly always because of brake fluid or gear oil contamination.
Disadvantages are obviously weight, complexity, poor wet weather performance and the big one, heat dissapation - a big deal on a road vehicle not a big deal on a forklift.
When I drove forklifts for a living (I still drive one occasionally) the brake shoes never wore out because they were hardly ever used. Travelling in one direction, just whack the transmission into the opposite direction and away you go!
I'll give those forklifts credit, they lasted 30K+ hours before they were sold on (about 4 years service from new), and we never had a transmission problem in all the years I worked there.
@@dfross87 Keep braking with transmission clutch packs bud 😂 👍 Keeps me in work.
@@deezelfairy I don't work there anymore, and tried to avoid doing it. But those little Toyota forklifts could take it.
I was friendly with the on-site mechanic, and he said in 15 years there he'd never had to change a clutch pack on one. Never a transmission problem at all.
Not bad going for machines that were abused like that. And in 15 years the various batches of forklifts would have done nearly 2 million hours total.
I do not miss working on our 1968 dodge a100 van! 4 way non-power drum brakes, manual steering, no air-conditioning and engine/radiator completely between front seats! ( I did learn a lot though)
Wes, the only GM S cam drum brakes I had to do was in high school shop class. The teacher noticed I had organised all the parts the way they came off during my exam and decided to switch them around on purpose. Needless to say I did get the brakes back together but was too weak to force the spring back into place. Then the shop teacher accidentally helps me get the springs into the correct place.
I'm with you on drum brakes 100 percent. Never really been happy with them on any application. The fact that when buying a car I always check what type of rear brakes it has tells you exactly how I feel.
Almost an hour long masterpiece Wes, can you please setup a Patreon or paypal? I feel like a criminal watching this stuff for free. As a fellow engineer I agree with you on the drum brakes, too many failure points and way too many mismatched parts. Disc brakes have essentially a single moving piston, can't get better than that.
Also Wes, did you do a brakejob with no brakecleaner...if so you might need to brace yourself 😆
Mr Engineer, you forgot that the caliper pins are the moving part for disc brakes. When they sieze they'll ruin a set of pads in a hurry.
@@paisleyprince5280 that's true, opposed piston is the way to go
Now, you are supposed to clean disc rotors with soap, not brake cleaner.
@@macgvrs Got to get that coating of flash rust on a new set of discs.
@@macgvrs can the brake cleaner identify as soap?
Totally agree about the drum brakes. I’m so glad I’m not the only one that took several attempts to get it ‘right’. I ended up using a small strap to keep the shoes together while I unsuccessfully tried re-attaching the springs.
I think I ended up getting my mechanics to check my work. 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
Yep, older guy here. Did a few drum brake jobs as a kid and young adult. It's when you get used to. The first disk brakes I encountered was on a 1971 Plymouth.
38:45 the thickener and oils in grease will separate when they get hot and resolidify when cool so I guess they think if you don’t have enough the grease could flow out of the bearing when to hot and then solidify outside of it. I feel more grease is better then less but use the correct grease for the application! I had mower spindles with to thick of grease filled up and it would cause a bad vibration. Removed the extra thick grease for wheel bearing grease and it’s smooth as butter. The thick grease was churning inside the spindle and causing problems.
Once again Wes, you make me grateful to live where I do, probably one state south and a couple west of you. We have some rust but nothing like yours. I just cannot imagine anyone spending even that amount of money for parts for that truck. Do you get tetanus shots or are you just naturally immune?
Feels so good bolting shiny new stuff on to rusty old junk :)
Drums are all there was when I started turning wrenches. My trick was always to do one side at a time and use the other side as my guide to outing it back together
You did everything right up until you didn't re-collapse the rubber bellows on the master cylinder reservoir lid. Better luck next time!😁
Info: You can usually stack both bearings in the packer at the same time. Even quicker!
I don't think that will work in mine. It has to seal to the cage.
I'm of the mind of filling the hub with as much grease as possible. If water gets in the cap then there will be more than an adequate amount of grease to displace/absorb it. When I was a kid, we rode our bicycles under water, so a yearly grease job was necessary, lol. Yeah, my boat hub bearing buddies actually work well.
You got brakes! Derek at Vice Grip would be proud...
Just had a bed bug crazy thought, if you can ever sneak away with your bride and wonderful son and dog from your crazy backlog and do a rust revival road trip with Derek and his family that would be incredible!
So have any of you out there in TH-cam Land have any candidates for the ultimate rust revival epic journey?
Get Fab Rats and the two Matts to come along? Could be an amazing summer...
I've always found that drum brakes range from incredibly simple (wheel cylinder only, no auto-adjust, no park brake) to utterly nightmarish (a massive pile of springs and levers and miscellaneous widgetry); and they're also really easy to put together, unless they're an absolute clusterfuck of wrestling with springs and prying on things; and then when you've done that, they're either fantastic or they're utterly atrocious and you'd be better off chucking an anchor out the window!
When they're good, they're really good; when they're bad, they're an utter let-down. Work's Volvo wrecker has drums on the drive axles, and they're absolutely fantastic: massive amounts of friction material surface area, pretty good auto-adjustment, and when you really GIVE 'ER they'll put some real effort out! (They exploded the gearbox in the roller brake tester at one point.) Meanwhile, older Scanias have drum brakes that aren't worth shit. Same size drums as the Volvo, but the shoes only have a small contact patch, so they really struggle with brake effort.
Not all drum brakes are made equally!
(...but, yeah, there's a reason why most stuff's going disc now. Drum brakes will stop you real good *once*; discs will stop you okay, repeatedly. 😁And they're easier on the back when you have to do a brake service!)
when you said it was a complicated set up while looking at those rear brakes, i thought it was sarcasm. when i first started as a mechanic i had trouble with them, but 40 years later, i think they're a breeze as long as the drum comes off without a torch. i have the same two tools that you use, and they make it easy peasy. not as easy as disc brakes, but it takes longer to jack up a vehicle, set it on jack stands, and remove the tire than it takes to replace disc pads, especially if you aren't turning the rotors. as long as there's no deep grooves, i just scuff them up with a coarse scotchbrite pad on a rolloc adapter in my pneumatic angle grinder to remove the surface glaze. i don't even use the fancy caliper compressor tool that lives in the bottom drawer of my tool box, i just compress it by prying with a large flat screwdriver between the pads, and the caliper. i use the spindle nut to remove the inner bearing and seal just like you did. and repack the bearings by hand by scraping them on my greasy palm. i fill the hub with grease, always have. mostly because that's how my teacher in tech school taught us to do it. the dust cap, not so much. and i put anti seize on the shoe pads of the backing plate, caliper pins and slides, and between the front spindle bearing hubs and rotors, the rear axles and drums, and all the lug nuts, just because since most of my jobs are repeat customers, chances are the next guy who takes the brakes apart will be me.
That old Ammco brake lathe takes me back to high school auto shop days. 1968. The last time I understood what was under the hood of a car.
Well I'm almost 60 so have done plenty of drum brakes. My 1st car was an 74 Nova that had drum brakes all around, fun when they iced up in the winter.
You can't go by how they were assembled if brakes were changed. Just ignore negative comments, it's all good.