Poly Sand ISSUES! We Tested - HERE'S THE RESULTS
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ต.ค. 2024
- If you are a hardscape contractor, it's likely you've had issues with poly sand over the last year or so. We certainly have. So we tested 5 brands of polymeric joint sand, and here is what we found.
The test plots actually performed a bit better than what we've seen happen in the real world with the Alliance G2 product. In the real world, we've had thousands of sq ft from dozens of our projects that had issues with not curing or setting up, eroding, crusting on top and not curing the entire joint, staying gummy, bubbling on the surface, etc. It was awful. The frustrating part is we've had to replace and re-do all these jobs on our own dime. Support from G2 has been weak and not helpful in finding a solution so far. Mostly they suggest we are doing an incorrect installation. 🤷♂️ Yeah... we've only been doing this for 30 years, I guess we could be doing it wrong eh?
We have done our due diligence, going through all the motions their support has asked us to. But no better outcomes.
I am convinced it is their new formula. They keep telling us our problems are odd and strange, as they haven't heard anything from other contractors. But our suppliers and their connections have been telling us otherwise, MOST of their contractors are coming back with problems and looking for answers. Based on the social media engagement we've had with other contractors, they've also been having issues.
Why did we do this video? Well, we hope it
helps others looking for answers
-gets Alliance's attention and motivate them to take responsibility so we can solve this issue (not on our own dime)
-hopefully convince them to take a good hard look at their formula and re-evaluate.
Back in 2017, 2018, their sand was great! It was remarkable how well it set up and how little haze it had. Now... well... in the video you can see.
***June 1, 2021 UPDATE***
Alliance has helped us remove the failed poly G2 joint sand on a large project we did, and they provided us with their new Nitro sand as a replacement. Their new Nitro sand is their competitor to EZ joint. We have installed it a few times by now, and up to now, we haven't seen any negative aspects to it. Time will tell whether EZ joint or Alliances' Nitro sand is better.
Alliance also gave us free Nitro product in form of reimbursement for our costs in this fiasco. Which we genuinely appreciate. It's just never cool when you have to resort to these measures to get their attention, I guess you could say this video has served it's purpose. One bright spot, the new Alliance rep that has been assigned to us here in western PA has been excellent, and we look forward to working with him in the future. He was much more ready and willing to help then our past Alliance contacts.
***END OF UPDATE***
In the meantime, we've found Easy Joint.
www.azpects.co...
You can talk to our rep Dale Weaver to find a place to buy it: 717-629-5471
It truly is an AMAZING sand, and to be honest, is a much more durable product then polysand ever will be. Regardless though, we'd still enjoy the option of having a solid poly sand available.
#polysandissues #polysandproblems #polysand #paversand #jointsand #polymericsand
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Great video! Very annoying that the polymeric sand does not properly cure all the way down through the joint.
One solution might be to pour the dry sand on the pavers, sweep it into the joints, compact it so the sand works its way down to the bottom of the joints, then instead of adding more sand to top off the void, wet down the sand already installed and allow it to cure for a few days, then return and repeat the process with a second application of sand.
Great info, thanks for all your hard work on this video. ONE Huge request. I watched it 4 times, I'm really busy working and PLZ instead of repeating what's wrong & right with products, SAY THE FULL NAME OF THE PRODUCT YOU FINALLY CONCLUDED IS THE BEST PRODUCT TO USE. I'm headed to buy a product Hoping it's the actual "Easy Joint" you said is so great! Since I'm not in the biz & doing may own home I still have NO idea of exactly what product you said is best! Just BE More Clear. Thanks for trying.
I apologize! Great feedback. It is called EASY Joint. Aztec makes it. You can get it from Tussey Mtn Mulch www.tusseymountainmulch.com/ or call them t 814-696-1920 for more info/details on it
saudershardscape.com/product/easy-joint/
Excellent video excellent hard work editing and uploading! I want to commend you on your transparency and your work ethic!
@@Tusseylandscapingare you still thinking the Aztec easy joint is the best product? I have some pool pavers that sank by my filters,, since I bought the place used I have no idea what they placed under the pavers which sunk down…I also was not clear about the color of these sands and if they sell various colors to match the rest of my patio at the pool (it is simple and grey, that’s as much as I know ;) thank you for the video I reached out to the company to see if I get a response as well! Thank you
I had the SAME issue! I thought it was me or that I did something wrong. I really appreciate your testing and sharing your results.
Thanks for watching and good luck!
thank you for taking the time to do this much appreciated
Most welcome! We have another one coming out on sands soon
Almost 18 minutes of my life, learning about sand and the different properties of different brands, that I'll never need to know. That's how good you are. I watched the whole thing... twice. Nothing blew up. No gun fights. No pond builds. How do you do it? It's mystifying. 🤣 Good work on keeping it interesting.
For the record, I didn't think it was "all over the place". It was just thorough and informative. It's hard to cut corners AND be thorough.
Ha ha ha. Thanks for watching! Glad you enjoyed it 😉
U hi Iiixoolboooiiiooo
Great test, initially disappointed Easy Joint didn’t form part, but pleasantly surprised when it appeared late on. We’ve just laid 74 sq metres of 900 x 600 light grey Indian sandstone here in Hampshire, UK, using Easy Joint, Stone Grey in the 10 mm joints ‘Fabulous’ product!! Thanks again for very useful test.
Fantastic video, the best video done on poly sand. Great job and thank you!
Thanks Byron. You're welcome. Hope we get some better results soon
We use g2 every week bag says 30 square feet and 30 sec watering. We don’t have any issue so far and our rep is pretty sharp. We did try the easy joint for the first time lasts week and works very well! You should try some edgecrete instead of the normal edge restraint definitely a game changer for us 👍🏻
Shoot me a link to the edge crete 👍
Pleasantly surprised to hear that. Hopefully we can get the same experience soon
Hey do you know of edgecrete can be used where my pavers meet the sidewalk? The end of my paver driveway is slightly raised above the sidewalk level with about .5" gap that was filled with cement/concrete. It's cracked within 2-3 months of driving in and out. Would edgecrete work and resist cracking? I have pictures if needed. Thank you so much.
hey thanks for the video i got a huge patio done last year and the sand has gotten dirty and now i want to refill some joints and maybe re do all of it so the joints are clean im going to use ez thanks for the video
You bet!
I cant tell if you did it correctly or not but G2 is suppose to be sprayed down then wait 5 mins and then soak it good, its designed to flex because of freeze and thaw. If the sand is soft after the top layer you didnt apply the water correctly.
Thanks Weston for putting this video out!
We don't do much Hardscapes but had my 1st 'Top Peeeling' issue with G2 sand last month on a slightly sloped driveway.
Been using G2 sand for close to 10 years with satisfactory results. I agree totally with the wetting problem at the top and the rest staying dry.
Had already a few of my Ottawa, 🇨🇦 Hardscaper friends change to EZJoint sand with great results. And I'm about to start using it too! I agree with you about the new shorter watering sessions for G2 can't simply go down all the way.😉
Absolutely! Thanks for commenting.
And yeah, feel your pain. We're still struggling with it
I see a few issues with the install and level at which the sand was left. Should be 1/8" below Chamfer. Also, Flexlock and Alliance Supersand are the same product. Several factors are yet to be shown to ensure install was done correctly. My thoughts anyway.
I'm all ears. What factors did you want to see? (Obviously i didn't put every second of the install in the video)
When testing, did you follow the way the the manufacturers asked to do that. IG2 clearly ask for setting the hose on “shower” not moist and asked to pour water till the joints start being over filled.
I am not a precessional. I have used “G2 super sand” carefully following the instructions and am very happy with it.
I just installed my patio with Holland pavers. I used Techniseal and will be applying a wet look sealer hopefully that will give it more protection because my joints were really tight (about 1/8 to 1/16 of an inch) so I don’t think the polymeric sand went all the way through. It took my 3 hours to sweep it in (500 sq ft) no matter how much I swept back and forth some joints were left with little tiny holes but sand wouldn’t go through anymore. Thanks for the very informative and high quality video, I will recommend this to people!
typically if you use a tamper once the sand is sitting over the stone and in the joint to the best of your ability you should vibrate it better.
Great content guys...down here on the Delmarva Peninsula and I have seen this a lot also! Awesome to see the quality your desire to see and back your workmanship with correcting the issue💪🏾🙏🏾👌🏾💯‼️
Thank you!
I've used the Alliance Super sand, both fine and with the aggregate. The very first time I used it (3 times now) I may not have gone as fast with the showering step. So yes, the membrane started to cure and the surface became "spongy". I called, left a message and the company out of Laval Canada immediately called me back. He told me just take a nail and puncture all the "questionable" areas and repeat the showering process. This actually worked out well and the following year I "touched up" a few spots (as the patio was not installed properly but is very sufficient) so the next bag I purchased from the distributor came in "wet" so I figured I would try and get some product use out of the non wet spots in the bag. Realizing it won't work due to moisture in the bag I used what I could and it did hold up pretty good. Not great, but this is what I was expecting. That was the first project which was done with flag stone and blue stone of different sizes and colors laid out in a very random layout and spacing. The base(s) were individually set for each stone as well as the sand to level and keep from rocking and tamped. Quick and dirty job looked pretty good and lasted as I had expected. This next "fix" I power washed the patio and removed most of the poly and will replace it with the "Easy Joint". The second job I used 12x24 blue stone with proper 8 inch base and 1 inch sand, blah blah and used the Alliance Super sand without the grit for spaces up to an inch. We'll have to see how this holds up and compared to the Easy Joint. Easy Joint's claim looks great however I'm just a "little" concerned on the smaller joints. No worries here, but just the thought. Can't wait to use it.
Thanks for this video. It helped to see the comparison of the different products. Question: would the Alliance product cure better if the sand were laid down in thin or thinner layers, wetted, allowed to set for 3 days or so, then go back over with another layer of polymeric sand, repeating this process until the joint is fully filled? This lack of curing the deeper layers of the joint was also the problem with the initial installation of our flagstone patio. Just 3 years later we are now having to remove and re-install our flagstones because our polymeric sand joints have failed.
I can see your logic, but I don't think it'd help. The manufacturer certainly doesn't recommend that
Boston, MA . I replaced my poly sand last fall with E-Z Joint due to this video. At first everything was great and it looked fantastic, I remember thinking I will never be doing this again and low and behold after the winter I noticed cracking along side of the blue stone where the fill was pulling away. So I if you live in a frost area where your bluestone or pavers have natural movement, I would not recommend spending the extra money to use this product. I don't believe there is a long term solution to poly sand and I believe other than cement, it's just a process you have to attend to every few years....
EZ joint (or any wet sand) is not a cure all. What i mean is if your hardscape isn't installed on open grade base, and built properly, then yes, freeze and thaw will break it up. I obviously don't know what your job looks like, but that's the only time we've seen it separate from the paver like what you described -when there were issues with the original install
Mine never set up even in extreme heat and no rain. Basically the same problem you folks were having. Great video! I am changing the product I use. Thanks!
Preach it! Although you didn't test the best poly sand - Evolution brand!
Hey thanks for commenting 😎 tell me more about evolution. Why is it the best?
Great video.starting my first flagstone patio,lots of inexperience.
You got this! Post your photos of the job on IG and tag us! @tussey.landscaping
This was excellent. I'm in Northern NJ so we sort of share the same climate. I have a 3 year old brick patio and we need to redo the sand and I wanted to check out some video's using the G2. I was really interested in this and wondering if I should switch products. The joints in my patio are pretty tight though. Thank you for this.
Great video. I have a blue stone patio and the last two years I have to go back and fix the G2. Wasted too much money with G2. Going to try easy sweep to replaced g2
Good call 💪
I've seen these issue on other sites with the G2 a few years ago. I have just used it myself at a new site now. Will come back to check
I've done a few paver projects around my house over the years. The concrete pavers that I grouted with a 1" joint about 8 years ago have held up well. Every spring I pressure wash and no problem. The new pavers I put down last year where I used poly sand are a pain. The said comes loose with too much water pressure. So hesitant to pressure wash the patio. If I can avoid it, no more poly sand for me. Seems like project in europe tend to use grout between pavers more than here in the US, I can see why.
Grout sounds like a good alternative to polysand, but I wonder, since I have no experience using grout, if your joints have not cracked or split. Unlike the joints in a home, say the bathroom tile, where the joints are not exposed to sun, cold and heavy foot traffic, I would expect grout to crack in an outdoor installation as in patio pavers and the like. And gout tends to build up mold and stains after a time, too.
The best poly sand video I've seen on YT and I've watched nearly all of them at this point! So now 4 years later... has G2 quality control or formula improved? Any issues with the EZ Joint? Thanks!
Great video! Thanks for all the demonstrations
I live in eastern PA in the Poconos. I'm glad to see another hardscape company who probably has the same issues as I do. (, Digging through ROCKS) lol I'm definitely going to subscribe to you, every other landscaping company on TH-cam is out in the west with nice soft soil lol and this is a fantastic video! We use poly sand as well
Ha ha we def got the PA mountain soil
We’ve been having the same Issues with G2 here in Ontario this year. Never any problems until this season, it only solidifies the top 1/4” no matter the amount of water or drying temp
Exactly
g2 is trash I need the stuff they use at gas stations.
Thank you for your information. I am currently looking to re do my paver. May be I will give it a try on Easy Joint.
You are absolutely correct sir!! This stuff gets Rock Hard in minutes. I've been including this in my diet for about 2 weeks now and haven't had the need for one of those little blue pills since!! Thanks Bro!!
🫣🤔🤔🤔🤣
Terrific video, very useful. Thank you!
Thanks Peter!
Excellent clear video, no BS just problem solving. ☘️🇮🇪
I have large flat stones, randomly cut. The space between the stones is 1/4 to 1/2 inch. Half of the sand is gone between the joints (leaf blowers) so we have a lot of space to fill. I like moss, weeds not so much. This is the walkway into our house so it is becoming a trip hazard. Thanks in advance....The presentation is profesional, I'm very impressed! The best DYI video ever!
Thank you! Good luck
@@Tusseylandscaping is the space between the stones too large a gap to use this product?
@@patpolksimpson8605 have a Mason to grout it with mortar.
Thank you for doing this video, taking the time and sharing this great information
Is that granite sand you're screeding? Love that stuff. We used poly sand awhile but found the regular old fine non-poly sand (old school) worked for us. Plus no reapply down the road. We noticed a few more little surface weeds might pop up in the cracks, but based on preference it seems easier to just pull a few weeds compared to reapplying poly later down the road. All comes down to preference. Sweet video 👌
No it's clean 1/4" stone. Works great!
Regular sand could work I guess, but yeah most people don't want to deal with the weeds. A solid joint sand is what we'd like
Easy joint is good, but I can’t see it lasting more than 5 years as I’ve used it on several occasions and it has definitely deteriorated in some cases. Also after a year it will hold moss unless it’s regularly cleaned. That’s half the battle with patios, they need to be maintained otherwise no matter what you do they will deteriorate.
Really? What/how have you seen it detoriate? Interested in hearing more
The only way EZ Joint can break apart is if there's "chatter" in the pavement system. It's so hard it does not flex so the pavers NEED to be seated in C33 bedding sand. If you've used #9 (or HPB in Canada) for you bedding layer and then your drive on EZ Joint you can expect the product to break apart. Check out PaveTool Innovators TH-cam channel on Phil's review of EZ Joint after a 9 year install. Still rock hard in a commercial installation with regular powerwashing. It works as advertised...BUT READ THE INSTRUCTIONS AND THE DO'S AND DONT'S BEFORE YOU INSTALL. HAPPY SANDING!!
So I was about to use some of this polymeric sand from Home Depot and I came across your video the thing is I spent $2500 on the raw material another thousand dollars on the base and probably $10,000 of professional time and I’m gonna throw down some cheap crap between the joints! I’ll definitely look at the easy joint stuff and will be taking my Home Depot stuff back.
Good information. In the past I have just bought the cheapest poly sand available at one of the big box stores up here in Canada. However after finding that the products I used did not last long, I started to question if there were better products out there. Your video clearly answered that question. My next problem is whether the recommended poly sands are available up here. Non-the-less, good video. I will be referring back to the techniques used by your crew.
FYI mate, nonetheless is one word.
Box store ez sand product? How has it held up?
@mcampbell4914 is it the ez sand box store product? How has it held up. I said this twice because you weren’t tagged.
Great video - I am in the process of resending my driveway border bricks and decided to do some research.
thank you great information. I"M doing my yard pavers bricks so it great to know about grout. Thanks great video
Maybe something changed in the G2 manufacturing process, cost cutting or a new supplier of raw materials was used. Something the manufacturer probably wouldn't disclose. If it was good all these years and this is a sudden change, that would be my guess.
I agree, I think this is what the real truth is. But of course no one will admit it
This was so helpful. I was nervous to DIY polymer sand due to it not hardening and hazing up my pavers. I will go with Easy Joint like you suggested. Can you do a video on sealers for pavers?
It's the same stuff as Nitro Sand from Alliance Gator. Thanks for the video!
Yep very similar
Thanks, we had a few failures with regular G2. Tore it out and replaced with G2 Ultra with better results. Been using easy joint a little also and time will tell. Techniseal NexGel has been better for us, but hard to get locally. Most don't even realize this technology has only been around about 15 yrs, before that it was just regular sand and maintenance.
We've also tried ultra, same story as the regular stuff for us. I wanna try that Techniseal stuff. I've heard good things about it.
Evolution is a great polymeric sand, had a lot of failures with the G2
There’s also a great product out there called joint it simple
Great Video Guys. You should try out the DYNA Optimax. Superior Product made in Toronto.
Great video! Thank you! We have hired pros to install our stone patio in sept 2020. The material is Cambridge (partially fade out already!) The guys put G2 poli sand. Most of the joints are holding well but some spots exactly like you tested, plus the joints are turned mold and green - not cool at all. I will have to replace them with Easy Joint O don't care about the price.
Good call. Sorry for the trouble. Not fun
@@Tusseylandscaping thanks for thr response. Question about the Easy Joint: do you need to have a water brum to apply it, or also you Can you do it by spilling the easu joint into the gap then you can apply the water inside the gap? I am.plannig to replace my old joints little by little in Spring
Good Video Weston... valuable information..
Thanks Jason
This was a really really good video on safety procedures, good technique and everything that goes along with it. Gave it a special tag to remember to watch it again for reference! Many thanks!
THANK YOU FOR SHARING THIS INFO,,. I AM NEW TO USING PAVERS , BUT I HAVE STARTED MAKING A LITTLE PATIO WITH A WALKWAY. , BUT I JUST FILLED THE JOINT WITH REG DIRT (SAND), AND WET IT DOWN,. WHICH THE MUD KEPT THEM KINDA STUCK TOGETHER
BUT
EVERY TIME I WOULD SPRAY THE BRICKS DOWN WITH WATER IT WOULD JUST END UP BEING A MUDDY MESS,,
SO YESTERDAY I BOUGHT "PAVER SET SAND"
SO I THINK THAT WILL HELP OUT
BUT ANYWAYS
YOU MADE A REALLY QUALITY VIDEO,,
I MEAN YOU GUYS WERE VERY THOUGHRAL ,,
AND YOU COME ACROSS AS THE KIND OF CONTRACTOR WHO REALLY GIVES A SHIT,. AND TAKES THE PROPER MEASURES IN EACH PROJECT YOU DO,,
THATS JUST MY PERCEPTION , THAT I GOT FROM WATCHING YOUR VIDEO,,
ITS AMAZING ,,WE CAN SAY ALOT BOUT OURSELVES ,
WITHOUT EVEN SAYING A THING BOUT IT
THANKS GUYS!
Thanks for the comment! Good luck on your project, and appreciate the support!
Great video. Thank you for sharing. I have tight joints and have been using Alliance G2. Would Easy Joint work for small joints (⅛ and up)?
Wtf, how does this not have more views?!?!? TH-cam algorithm did you dirty bro.
Ha ha they don't even know what they're missing out!
That’s a lot of work you’ve done for us!! Thanks for the hints. I was thinking exactly before seeing the video, is there a sand that you can mix with water to apply it😂 A lot more infos that i thought in this 👌
Thanks for watching! Hope it helps!
G2 Sand is terrible. I've been reapplying mine for years always the same cracking and peeling of the top coat. Good video
Yep
Good video. Very thorough. Well done.
Very interesting and informative. I have a paver patio put in roughly 6 or 7 years ago and for the last year noticed weeds growing between a few or the pavers. Our lawn care guy pulls up the weeds and my husband sprays weed killer on it. I’ve even tried a few home remedies to no avail. Before viewing this video of yours, I was planning to get some polymeric sand and re-sand it myself. But after viewing this video I believe we will try the EZ Joint. Do you think this is something I can do myself or should I call a contractor? Your video makes it look so easy.
Thanks for sharing.
was EZ joint worth it? Install yourself? Find a "water/broom" yet?
@@craig1082 Im sue a hose with a mist spraying during brooming would be all a home owner would need.
I have a question for you professionals. I live in Texas. If I have 4” of type II gravel base with 1” of DG on top of that finished off with 800 Sq Ft of 1 1/2” flagstone. Would Easy Joint Pro be a good solution to finish this project?
Nice vid. The trial, however, uses permeable pavers for the polymeric sand test. I get it - extreme joints enables easier testing. But Belgard, Calstone, Basalite pavers (mostly) are tight joint pavers. What is the minimum paver gap that EasyJoint works with? Or for EasyJoint, must it be used w/ tumbled pavers or other larger gap pavers only?
I would like to know this information as well?
Oh I wish I had seen this before I installed SW. It sucks! 2 weeks after install (no rain and lots of heat), we finally got a rain storm. What was once solid turned into mush. Long strips of the top cured layer came off with a leaf blower and the product underneath was just loose sand. I will not use that product again.
😖😢 sorry buddy. I feel your pain
great job thank for documenting.
I’m curious.. do you still put a layer of sand below the pavers now that this product is being used?
No we don't we used washed 1/4" stone for the setting bed
Is the easy joint product effective in cold weather where expansion and contraction is an issue.
We get 4 months is freezing weather out of the year and works fine here
Thanks for an informative video. It's great! How has Easy Joint held up a few years later? What about the Nitro product? I notice that Alliance gives a 5 year warranty on Nitro compared to the 15 year on the G2 Max, or the 20 year on the Techniseal HP NextGel. I could not find any warranty for Easy Joint. So, I'm curios to know what your experience has been with weeds, ant holes, moss on the 3 products over the years. Given Easy Joint is permiable... I'm wondering if the spring freeze/thaw cycle does a number on it as moisture inside freezes and expand.
You should try Gftk vdw 850+ it’s a two part resin product it’s been used in Europe for years and has great reputation. The problem with all the sands you showed including the easyjoint is once you come to power wash your patio you blow all of it out and need to re joint the patio witch is what homeowners don’t want to be doing the gftk is water permeable but you won’t power wash it out because of the hardener in it. Again like you say this only works with joints 5mm and bigger. It’s not cheap but it’s a great product
Yes sir! Used it in my own backyard. We're doing a follow up video soon showing that stuff
@@Tusseylandscaping brilliant be good to see what you think of that 👍
Great video. What do recommend for travertine pavers with very tight joints? We’re in FL so get heavy rain which washes the sand away over time and leads to lots of weed growth in between pavers.
I had the same problem with the polymeric sand recently. I redid my patio twice with different brands and had the same problem it looks nice for a couple months then gets soft
Have you installed polymeric sand around a pool while it was up and running. We just had our pavers finished and now our pool is foaming at the mouth. It wasn’t doing this before application of sand. Is this the chemical in the sand and is there something I can do to get rid of it? I’ve tried shocking and no luck
Yep, that's the poly in the sand, it foams like crazy. Not much you can do other than just let it die out
Love the absolute truth. Always so honest about your work. That EZ joint looks like some amazing stuff. Hey W, remember that stuff in like 8-10 years and use it on my project, lol. Great stuff and thanks for putting this together.
Ha ha sure! Thanks for commenting. Looking forward to seeing how that stuff holds up in 10 years
@@Tusseylandscaping EZ joint is the one that he said got “rock hard”, but yet the product description says that it is permeable. That means water can seep through, right? So, maybe not rock hard?
@@CageyLeigh Some rocks are very permeable/pervious.
Excellent video... Thanks
These kind of products relay on the polymer used and the % of addition in their formulation, the biggest issue is that that polymer called RDP (redispersable polymer)
after some period of time, thats the reason why was getting soft and gummy
So I came to find out about poly sand because I have small joints, but you promoted a product for pavers with large joints.
Thanks for watching, good luck with your project.
I wonder if the poor outcome from the polysand are due to water PH and potential mineral contaminants used to cure the sand. Locally sourced water is different everywhere and may explain the weirdness. Heck, water in the same municipality can vary drastically throughout the year. Perhaps the pavers themselves also play a role as well; Maybe they're made different or have some sort of factory coating on them which inhibits the ability for the polysand to do its thing...
I don't believe so. It comes down to the formula and mixture in the different sands. G2 admitted to having quality control issues in theirs.
Great video! Very useful.
I know it would be more work, but with the size of the joints, have you considered filling 1/2 way wetting down, and then filling the rest? That's for the added Easy Joint!
I hear you, but it wouldn't be practical. There's better solutions available
Excellent video!
A few suggestions for future videos...
Have a camera stabilizer.
Direct your camera away from you to show what you are talking about.
Thanks for the feedback. We're trying to get better
so I have installed 2’ x 2’ porcelain pavers on gray breeze, a 4 inches base and then sand, 1 inch - the gaps are a quarter inch. Do you think this easy joint stuff will be OK, I’m here in Colorado where we can get blazing sunshine and freezing temperatures in the winter. The pavers are 3/4 inch thick.
Can you only put in half the sand and wet it to cure it and then put a top layer on and wet that?
I was thinking just the same thing.
-that’s a lot of extra time
Good video.
Caveat - I’m not a landscaper and just researching pavers and for my own backyard project.
That said, it seems like you didn’t wet the G2 enough. Then it rained on your test pads and you were surprised at how much deeper the crust was than what you’ve been seeing on jobsites. I’m guessing that the water activated products don’t set up so fast they block water from the bottom parts, I’d bet it’s just not enough water.
The EZ product setting up so hard seems like it would crack and break up over time. I would have guessed flexibility with pavers and stones is key - hence why they’re set on a sand bed and joints swept with sand to allow movement.
But I agree it’s a great and informative video usually these “review” videos are really just advertisements for a donated product. Nice work overall.
Great observations and comment.
It may be entirely possible that we didn't wet it enough on the test plot. But in real jobs (where we had to replace the sand 3 times before we gave up) we tried different things like lightly wetting it multiple times, and completely flooding it. Both had the same results, it failed.
The rain we got on the test plot was just barely enough to wet the surfaces, not a lot of rain, so I'm guessing it had little impact on the overall outcome.
The EZ joint we used was not given to us. We paid for each of the products we tested here. We simply happened to discover EZ joint while we were filming for this video, used it in a real job, were impressed by it, and decided to pivot and include it in this video.
And it's not even EZ joint necessarily that I'm a fan of. I'm a fan of the chemistry used in wet sands in general. EZ joint is just one of the options. There's Nitro, WetLok, and more. I have no real preference between those. To me I'll take a wet sand over poly sand any day. I believe poly sand is a dead technology that we'll see disappear and get replaced by wet sands. It's just far better performing.
You are right that wet sands are harder, and don't flex as much. Just makes it even more important that you install your job correctly and manage water. Wet sands are recommended to be installed on hardscape with open grade base for that reason.
Stay tuned, there's another follow up video coming out as well.
Great Video!
Thanks Wes!
Great vid and info thanks
You bet! We have another video coming out soon on this joint sand options
@@Tusseylandscaping can you please share link of another video, unable to find it. Do you still recommend easy joint?
Would these products work with a gravel patio? I liked the idea of a resin but know I need some binding and something to prevent water penetration and I really don't want to do cement
No they aren't designed for that. You're probably looking for something more like Gravel Lok
what do you think about using this to lock and Flagstone around the pond that I’m doing? ( Techniseal
EZSAND
POLYMERIC SAND
SABLE POLYMÈRE
FOR PAVER JOINTS
POUR JOINTS DE PAVÉS
DURABLE
INHIBITS WEED GROWTH
ELIMINATES JOINT EROSION
DETERS ANTS ) And then using this on top ( B.P
PRO
ISB
INVISIBLE StainBLOCKER
STAIN REPELLANT
FOR INTERLOCKING PAVERS ) Im going to motar the Flagstone around the pond perimeter though
Im not a paver contractor, but those joints look too wide, which might cause your issues??
Not only that but I don't believe they used enough water. Also, they filled the chamfer of the joints even though it says not to on all the bags. 1/8" below the chamfer.
@@ikarus2671 Yep, with too little water, the top is crusting over before any more water can get through the rest of it., With joints that wide, 9:26 , you might as well use mortar
How does the EZ joint hold up when power washing? Since it gets rock hard, does it hold up?
Holds up excellent. Although if you want the absolute best, go with a resin based sand
@@Tusseylandscaping can you please share resin based Sams name and where can I purchase in NJ? I’m a new subscriber, keep doing great work, thanks.
Having some major issues with alliance also. Waiting on Rep he’s coming out to the jobs soon.
Good luck with that! Hope you get some help! :)
Great video.can easy joint be used in porcelain pavers to keep firmly.?
I actually am not knowledgeable about the porcelain pavers. I would think they can, but old wanna double check with Aztec
If Easy Joint is too course for EP Henry pavers, what sand do you recommend for EP Henry? Thanks.
I have pool pavers (the black tan red style) and have very tight joints
What do you recommend
I would look into GFTK sand (sold by SHS distributors) saudershardscape.com/shs-distributors-store
Good video. You'll be very succesful with this much care and attention! My pavers have pretty narrow gaps so prob stuck with polymer sand. I was wondering though couldn't I brush half the amount in, water it and let dry then some days later do the rest so that the sand underneath gets wet and cures?
Thank you! I've never tried that ... Not sure what to tell you. In theory yes i guess it would work, but don't want to tell you to bank on it
Great video@11:00 you mention “this product”. But not the name of it. What is the name of the product?
Can't you use a sand+cement mixture?
No it will make a mess and stain your pavers
Im adding a blue stone 1.5” patio in Alabama. What base and grout do you recommend? DG and smaller facet on top or concrete base? Old school here does sand but Im not going there. Yall are the best
Polymeric works better on tight mesh applications. The insanely wide spacing is the source of most of your qualms.
We have also been having the same issues. We switch from Alliance to Polysweep about 2-3 years ago because its seemed to get hard and stay hard if installed correctly. Sealing the patio after sand installation goes a long way as well.
My question with Easy Joint is that it is permeable. I believe that using ground stabilization fabric beneath any patio is essential and proven its case over the last 8-10 years I have been installed paver patios. Also using 2A modified as apposed to 2b limestone is the rout I prefer as well. Which is not a permeable application. What would be the alternative if you wanted to use easy joint? Using geo-grid as the stabilzation fabric with compacted 2b limestone and a layer of limestone chip for leveling?
G2 sucks!!! We have been using easy joint. Talk about a strange process. Water water and more water. But hey it works. Thanks for the video.
We feel your pain!
Only question on east joint. I’m in Maine. Having same issue with the yellow bag G2. For the easy joint, how is it holding up to freeze and thaws in PA? I want to try it but anxious it may not be flexible enough for some paver movement in Maine. I do open grade stone bases so I should have not much frost movement on my jobs…. But you never know.
You may want to do a trail for yourself... Our winters aren't nearly as harsh as yours... And not sure how close to the ocean with the salt spray you are... If that would affect anything or not...
Hello, thanks you for this video, I just passed my pavers to pressure wash, and removed a lot of the joints. The thing is that these joints are really tight, I wonder which one of these product would you recommend?
Would it help to seal afterward?
Thank you
So don't use this product on anything with joints tighter than 1/4? Or have you since used on smaller jointing and/or do they offer a product more suitable for finer joints? Thank you in advance for any advice. Cheers.
Looks ez joint saves time on labor = money for installation. excellent for business owner
Exactly