It takes a long time to build rock-crawling trails like this, so seeing you have fun on it definitely makes me feel the time was well spent. I can't explain how over-joyed I felt when I saw the video. Already I am working on another couple trails that should be lots of fun as well. Thanks for trying my trail out! PS: This was actually my first challenge in challenge mode that I have ever made, and it won't be the last!
Currently my PC isn't working, but after I repair it i want to play your maps, i love rock crawling and suspension in this game, and wanted to see if my weird designs withstand this kind of terrain. Nice maps and have fun making them
I belive that the default vehicle turns better by having a larger steering angle in the back than the front. In my experience back wheel turning is sharper
@@vibaj16 Longer vehicles improve stability, not handling. Handling is mostly improved through suspension work these days. You can make a bigger car have more downforce which would improve high speed cornering, other than that it makes no sense.
@@afoxwithahat7846 the length vs turning angle of the wheels wasn't very well balanced on Scrapman's car. I think his turning angle was too sharp for the length of his car, so it slid instead of smoothly turning, because it was trying to follow a path that wasn't a circle. It's hard to explain...
Inspired by this, I started building a rock crawling challenge. I named it extreme rock crawling and it's going to be quite extreme, the first 2 car lengths already required about 90 degrees of articulation between front and rear axles. I'll probably finish it within the next week or so depending on how much timw I can spend building it, it will be short but really extreme. I hope you try it out once it is done!
I wonder if Ackerman steering geometry would help with the sliding, basically the inside wheel turns more than the outside wheel, which is possible in scrap mechanic because you can customize left and right angles for individual bearings attached to a level 5 seat. Right wheels turn more to the right than the left, and vice versa.
The most likely reason you can't turn properly is the block going into your front and back wheels! 8:55 Or the extra weight is getting in the way! Idk thos are my guesses, just saying!
In normal irl vehicles, the center of gravity is in the feet-knee region. For rock crawling, I’d say put the weight in the middle as low as you can go, with a little extra to the front.👌🏼
A common practice in rock crawling is weight management: unsprung vs sprung weight. Your wheels and axles should be the majority of your weight, so that you can maintain a good center of gravity and traction. Your body needs to be as light as possible to allow your suspension to be light and thus allow your vehicle to move over obstacles with greater ease.
Scrapman, If I remember correctly, in rock crawling, you always want to be pushing weight uphill from the front and not pulling it from the rear. Ie. Front weight bias is the preferred setup.
I think it was just riiight on the balance point. This version has the suspensions only attached to the chassis on one end, so I don't think it could have been suspension glitching.
@@Pystro but when there it a block pushing another block that are in the same bearing system it starts to glitch out. And also if you look closely you can see that when scrapman was trying to recreate the suspension system that the show car has, you can see that the bearings where connected on top of the suspension and scraman putted them under the suspension.
@@uattias The only thing that seems to be connected to the bottom of the suspension is one pipe corner piece and the wheel. If the wheel _was_ touching the chassis that could have been causing suspension glitchage. (Like what seems to be happening at 8:20) But Scrapman keeps the wheels straight for _most_ of the time during which the car tips forwards slowly, and at least visually there seems to be a gap between the wheel and the chassis. I mean, yes, the way scrapman connects the suspension (at 9:46) is keeping the suspension in line with the chassis, while the reference (10:06) is turning the suspension together with the wheel. But that wouldn't make any difference; suspensions are round. And don't they also have no collision for at least some of their length? Wait: DO SUSPENSIONS ACTUALLY HAVE SQUARE HITBOXES?!?!?!
@11:45 search youtube for Trail Mater - he has a big chunk of steel low on his front just for that reason, so he can tow something incapacitated through Moab trails and extreme terrain New Scrap challenge: build a towtruck that can haul the provided truck through the course with a wheel missing on the towed vehicle
3:24 Hey ScrapMan, every time I watch you build cars with suspension, I always have one question...... Why can't you build it like an 'M' shape with both ends are the suspension and the midpoint being a block wide?? you can even make 2 suspensions on both ends too! Most offroad RC cars use similar ways to make their suspension, but.. does the game stop you from doing it this way?? I don't have the game so I can't test it... Maybe your next video is to build real-world suspension systems to see if it actually works...?
That sounds workable, though easily pivot glitched, which you alluded to. the expansion and contraction of the plane of the axle would be a likely pinch point.
hey there, as a former automotive engineering student: I can highly recommend checking out what we call "Ackermann steering geometry", it might help you a lot in the future, cheers
That would make the setup reeeal chunky though. Think Scrapman's "Hank Tank" RV from his nomadic Scrap Mechanic survival series. But maybe you could get a similar effect by using logic: Stack two steering hinges for each wheel, where the bottom hinge is actuated by the steering wheel; and the top one is adding in some small amount of correction when sensors detect that your wheels have a high steering angle. Luckily, the direction of that correction is the same no matter which way you are steering: For both front tires it is to go outwards, and for both back tires it is to go inwards. (I.e. you'd need two sensors on your car to detect steering to the left and right, but the signals from both would feed into a single bearing per wheel.)
Pendular suspension is really good for off-roading in Scrap Mechanic. For me it's the best suspension in the game and it's incredibly easy to build. Maybe try and give it a go?
Try out some features that are used in the RC hobby like overdrive (front wheels spin a little faster than the rear) and dig transmission (being able to toggle front and back wheels from the motors like front wheel drive when needed or rear wheel drive when needed and also 4 wheel drive capable)
The suspension needs to have a “sag” this means that you should have the suspension sag from the weight of your vehicle and take up 1/3 of the travel in the suspension. This is how you get the best of both worlds
Plus, your not relying on gravity to pull your suspension down, cause you can look back in the video And see he’s on a downhill slope and his suspension is horizontal meaning gravity doesn’t decompress it. however, with the sag, it will always want to return to its decompressed state, giving you more traction
I realy like your vids scrapman, you are one of the people who enspired me to start my own youtube channel ,I am sure you will reach 1m subs soon this year 🙂
Day 161 of Asking scrapman to make a Machine that make that uses the steal balls and magnets to make the steal ball orbit around your creation with out any thing touching them and try to take out a building with it in instruments of destruction
So many years with Scrap Mechanic and you still don't understand the problems suspension glitch poses on vehicles? The best and functionally most realistic off-road suspension possible to do in SM is simple. First make an axle bar into which you attach both wheels. With or without steering mechanics, doesn't matter. The best is to have it odd length, but other measurements works too depending on the vehicle size. Attach two bearings on the front or the back of the axle, close together. Best being one block in between them. Then add blocks to the bearings and suspensions to the blocks. then attach that to the bottom of your vehicle. No further bearings needed. That kind of suspension will give you all the flex you need and will not have any suspension glitch at all. Works in every vehicle, for any purpose and any weight. Just remember that the heavier the vehicle you might have to compensate by building the suspension a bit further apart.
If I were to do this, I would add sensors that detect if the wheels were touching, and if they were then power would be activated. Gas engine would be preferable and I'd need front bearings for one direction and back for the other. Either that or a clutch system could be put in place.
The drag on turning is caused by the motorisation: without a differential to lower the speed of the inner wheels it will push against the turning; their design probably turns better because the front wheels aren't powered, maybe?
Dont know if you noticed it, but the example vehicle had the steering bearing before the suspension, does that affect steering that much? I wouldnt immediately think it would.
You keep referring to the ground clearance in the middle of the vehicle. That’s commonly called breakover angle. You’re front angle is called approach angle and your rear angle is called departure angle.
Actually you could do a piston system that changes your mass to front and back. İ mean if you press the Button , mass will be at the back .if you release the Button , mass will be at the front
Something we need to see in mods or even as the original game Button to tun off/on steering for 4 wheel steering Adjustable suspension, a switch to turn of and on: off=suspension stifness setting A On =suspension stifness setting B
@@afoxwithahat7846 yes he did, but that system also made his vehicle longer, what i mean is a simple switch hooked up to the bearing which enable and disable them to turn, to take less room, and be cleaner.
is there a way to adjust engine power and suspension strength from within the seat? might be easier if you can adjust it depending on where you are in the course.
You should do elvolution in scrap mechanic, or mabee a mini to massive thing. like you start with a small vehicle and then upgrade each round to the beggest
Make front wheel slightly faster than rear all the weight by your wheels or lower down and more forward raise too of your suspension above chassis and low friction blocks on bottom for rock slider
you need a differencial for the sharp turning so both wheels can spin at different rates. because the inner wheels have to turn slower than the outside wheels in a turn
The reason your steering feels bad is because you’re using an electric engine. Electric engines have locked differential throttle, good for climbs but bad for sharp steering. Gas engines do have differential throttle, meaning the wheels can move at different speeds.
It's awd vs red the tires are all sending the car in different directions while turning all at the same torque resulting in all 4 tires equally losing grip your turns were working when the terrain was bumpy or when not all 4 tires are fighting
day 63 of asking scrapman to do a multiplayer where everyone starts at the crashed ship with a craftbot already at the mechanic station and everyone has 30 minutes to build a vehicle from scratch, no glitches, thrusters allowed, after which everyone meets up and races along some road
@11:00 looks like you built a wrc snow suspension - rides low and stable, but extends to absorb terrain that falls away to maintain grip youtu be/-5BHfeFc37c?t=5
![You DRAW IT, I BUILD IT! Hoppin' Whopper, Chain Links, and MORE! [YDIB 20]](/img/n.gif)
It takes a long time to build rock-crawling trails like this, so seeing you have fun on it definitely makes me feel the time was well spent. I can't explain how over-joyed I felt when I saw the video. Already I am working on another couple trails that should be lots of fun as well. Thanks for trying my trail out!
PS: This was actually my first challenge in challenge mode that I have ever made, and it won't be the last!
I tested it out and i loved it, keep up the good work👍
@@timmyhenemy98 Thank you for the support!
How long did it take?
@@FlyingNoodle554 About a week worth of work. Each mountain takes hours to make, and then hours more to detail.
Currently my PC isn't working, but after I repair it i want to play your maps, i love rock crawling and suspension in this game, and wanted to see if my weird designs withstand this kind of terrain. Nice maps and have fun making them
Wow, 22:31 nice save!
These rock-crawling maps are some of my favorite videos you've done recently!
I belive that the default vehicle turns better by having a larger steering angle in the back than the front. In my experience back wheel turning is sharper
Noted
I feel like a sharp back wheel steering would be useful for courses like these
I think it being longer helped with the turning
@@vibaj16 Longer vehicles improve stability, not handling. Handling is mostly improved through suspension work these days.
You can make a bigger car have more downforce which would improve high speed cornering, other than that it makes no sense.
@@afoxwithahat7846 the length vs turning angle of the wheels wasn't very well balanced on Scrapman's car. I think his turning angle was too sharp for the length of his car, so it slid instead of smoothly turning, because it was trying to follow a path that wasn't a circle. It's hard to explain...
20:05 I love how the music gets climatic as soon as you overcome that obstacle
Watching this man struggle with suspensions never gets old
Inspired by this, I started building a rock crawling challenge. I named it extreme rock crawling and it's going to be quite extreme, the first 2 car lengths already required about 90 degrees of articulation between front and rear axles. I'll probably finish it within the next week or so depending on how much timw I can spend building it, it will be short but really extreme. I hope you try it out once it is done!
I wonder if Ackerman steering geometry would help with the sliding, basically the inside wheel turns more than the outside wheel, which is possible in scrap mechanic because you can customize left and right angles for individual bearings attached to a level 5 seat. Right wheels turn more to the right than the left, and vice versa.
The most likely reason you can't turn properly is the block going into your front and back wheels!
8:55
Or the extra weight is getting in the way!
Idk thos are my guesses, just saying!
In normal irl vehicles, the center of gravity is in the feet-knee region. For rock crawling, I’d say put the weight in the middle as low as you can go, with a little extra to the front.👌🏼
A common practice in rock crawling is weight management: unsprung vs sprung weight. Your wheels and axles should be the majority of your weight, so that you can maintain a good center of gravity and traction. Your body needs to be as light as possible to allow your suspension to be light and thus allow your vehicle to move over obstacles with greater ease.
That challenge looks so hard and you where able to complete it!
Nice 👍
9:39 by far the best part
Im loving this type of challenges
Scrapman, If I remember correctly, in rock crawling, you always want to be pushing weight uphill from the front and not pulling it from the rear. Ie. Front weight bias is the preferred setup.
Yes overdrive so front wheels pull more than the rear wheels push
12:00 that is a lot of suspension glitch happening right there.
I think it was just riiight on the balance point. This version has the suspensions only attached to the chassis on one end, so I don't think it could have been suspension glitching.
@@Pystro but when there it a block pushing another block that are in the same bearing system it starts to glitch out.
And also if you look closely you can see that when scrapman was trying to recreate the suspension system that the show car has, you can see that the bearings where connected on top of the suspension and scraman putted them under the suspension.
@@uattias The only thing that seems to be connected to the bottom of the suspension is one pipe corner piece and the wheel. If the wheel _was_ touching the chassis that could have been causing suspension glitchage. (Like what seems to be happening at 8:20) But Scrapman keeps the wheels straight for _most_ of the time during which the car tips forwards slowly, and at least visually there seems to be a gap between the wheel and the chassis.
I mean, yes, the way scrapman connects the suspension (at 9:46) is keeping the suspension in line with the chassis, while the reference (10:06) is turning the suspension together with the wheel.
But that wouldn't make any difference; suspensions are round. And don't they also have no collision for at least some of their length? Wait: DO SUSPENSIONS ACTUALLY HAVE SQUARE HITBOXES?!?!?!
@@Pystro i don't think suspensions can hit enything because they go through the ground.
Also you got a point there.
I like the new song you have at the end there. It does "victory" very well!
9:40
I almost chocked on my drink laughing at this.
@11:45 search youtube for Trail Mater - he has a big chunk of steel low on his front just for that reason, so he can tow something incapacitated through Moab trails and extreme terrain
New Scrap challenge: build a towtruck that can haul the provided truck through the course with a wheel missing on the towed vehicle
3:24 Hey ScrapMan, every time I watch you build cars with suspension, I always have one question......
Why can't you build it like an 'M' shape with both ends are the suspension and the midpoint being a block wide??
you can even make 2 suspensions on both ends too!
Most offroad RC cars use similar ways to make their suspension, but.. does the game stop you from doing it this way??
I don't have the game so I can't test it...
Maybe your next video is to build real-world suspension systems to see if it actually works...?
That sounds workable, though easily pivot glitched, which you alluded to. the expansion and contraction of the plane of the axle would be a likely pinch point.
Wow that's a challenge but scrapman can do anything. Keep up the amazing work and grind man.
hey there, as a former automotive engineering student: I can highly recommend checking out what we call "Ackermann steering geometry", it might help you a lot in the future, cheers
That would make the setup reeeal chunky though. Think Scrapman's "Hank Tank" RV from his nomadic Scrap Mechanic survival series.
But maybe you could get a similar effect by using logic: Stack two steering hinges for each wheel, where the bottom hinge is actuated by the steering wheel; and the top one is adding in some small amount of correction when sensors detect that your wheels have a high steering angle.
Luckily, the direction of that correction is the same no matter which way you are steering: For both front tires it is to go outwards, and for both back tires it is to go inwards. (I.e. you'd need two sensors on your car to detect steering to the left and right, but the signals from both would feed into a single bearing per wheel.)
Love your vids especially with multiplayer trailmakers and multiplayer scrap mechanic😂
Really nice work on the music edits
note to scrapman always add optional rear wheel steering when taking on rock climbing challenges
Pendular suspension is really good for off-roading in Scrap Mechanic. For me it's the best suspension in the game and it's incredibly easy to build. Maybe try and give it a go?
That's cool keep it up scrapman
Try out some features that are used in the RC hobby like overdrive (front wheels spin a little faster than the rear) and dig transmission (being able to toggle front and back wheels from the motors like front wheel drive when needed or rear wheel drive when needed and also 4 wheel drive capable)
The suspension needs to have a “sag” this means that you should have the suspension sag from the weight of your vehicle and take up 1/3 of the travel in the suspension. This is how you get the best of both worlds
Plus, your not relying on gravity to pull your suspension down, cause you can look back in the video And see he’s on a downhill slope and his suspension is horizontal meaning gravity doesn’t decompress it. however, with the sag, it will always want to return to its decompressed state, giving you more traction
Are there pistons & controllers in the parts garage? Could you use them to actively adjust center of mass forward & back while driving?
You were using concrete 3, the other car was using corigated mettal i think its called, that may have been why that happend, you did great still tho!
I realy like your vids scrapman, you are one of the people who enspired me to start my own youtube channel ,I am sure you will reach 1m subs soon this year
🙂
That shelf in the background looks nice.
Please make another Nomad Series, I have been watching the Nomad series 4 times yeah, that series was so good.So please make another one.
hello scrapman! great video!
Day 161 of Asking scrapman to make a Machine that make that uses the steal balls and magnets to make the steal ball orbit around your creation with out any thing touching them and try to take out a building with it in instruments of destruction
Most comonly for those rock crawlers is to have both front and back steering on 2 separate separate wheels or joysticks.
So many years with Scrap Mechanic and you still don't understand the problems suspension glitch poses on vehicles?
The best and functionally most realistic off-road suspension possible to do in SM is simple. First make an axle bar into which you attach both wheels. With or without steering mechanics, doesn't matter. The best is to have it odd length, but other measurements works too depending on the vehicle size. Attach two bearings on the front or the back of the axle, close together. Best being one block in between them. Then add blocks to the bearings and suspensions to the blocks. then attach that to the bottom of your vehicle. No further bearings needed.
That kind of suspension will give you all the flex you need and will not have any suspension glitch at all. Works in every vehicle, for any purpose and any weight. Just remember that the heavier the vehicle you might have to compensate by building the suspension a bit further apart.
I think the fancy suspension broke the game, so that’s probably why the vehicles he builds are sliding
You could make a citroën 2cv suspension for climbing
Scrapman " I don't know what changed???" answer, .... you pressed the gas, scrapman.
If I were to do this, I would add sensors that detect if the wheels were touching, and if they were then power would be activated.
Gas engine would be preferable and I'd need front bearings for one direction and back for the other. Either that or a clutch system could be put in place.
"I'm Scrapman"
-Scrapman
The drag on turning is caused by the motorisation: without a differential to lower the speed of the inner wheels it will push against the turning; their design probably turns better because the front wheels aren't powered, maybe?
It looks like the default truck has Ackerman steering that’s why it’s able to steer that sharp
Does the turning being above the suspension make any difference?
I wonder if a moving ballast that uses pistons to change your center of gravity would help in a challenge like this.
Early i love your vids scrap man
i love your videos
nice video scrapman tho
Dont know if you noticed it, but the example vehicle had the steering bearing before the suspension, does that affect steering that much? I wouldnt immediately think it would.
You keep referring to the ground clearance in the middle of the vehicle. That’s commonly called breakover angle. You’re front angle is called approach angle and your rear angle is called departure angle.
Actually you could do a piston system that changes your mass to front and back. İ mean if you press the Button , mass will be at the back .if you release the Button , mass will be at the front
Neat!
Hey just as an idea for a future video, maybe search battle bots in the trail makers workshop? And battle them against kosmo and kan who do the same?
Something we need to see in mods or even as the original game
Button to tun off/on steering for 4 wheel steering
Adjustable suspension, a switch to turn of and on: off=suspension stifness setting A
On =suspension stifness setting B
Didn't he do the former on the previous video?
@@afoxwithahat7846 yes he did, but that system also made his vehicle longer, what i mean is a simple switch hooked up to the bearing which enable and disable them to turn, to take less room, and be cleaner.
crazy
I Think its supposed to be flipped, the shorter path was the easiest, whilst the longer harder.
I feel like a better vehicle would be an ATV instead of an actual car because ATVs are so small
This vehicle gives me the urge to do it better and upload that to youtube
is there a way to adjust engine power and suspension strength from within the seat? might be easier if you can adjust it depending on where you are in the course.
No
I think in the description of that one it says it was inspired from the first one you did
U need a double wishbone suspension system 3:42
Nah prob need coil overs.
HES GOT WUMPUS!!!!! 😮😮😮
Him: I wish I had 4 wheel steering
Me: sees that he has 4 wheel steering... What?
just then on my youtube home page the thumbnail showed as an image from the video instead of the actual thumbnail
8:24 I know why
The wheel hit the tiny wood block
So it slide.
You should do elvolution in scrap mechanic, or mabee a mini to massive thing. like you start with a small vehicle and then upgrade each round to the beggest
I feel like scrapmechanic could possible do Cantilever Suspension.
Make front wheel slightly faster than rear all the weight by your wheels or lower down and more forward raise too of your suspension above chassis and low friction blocks on bottom for rock slider
you need a differencial for the sharp turning so both wheels can spin at different rates. because the inner wheels have to turn slower than the outside wheels in a turn
Those rocks are so youtube trying to be so steep like that
He got 6:02:700 and 1:52:074 as the two times ( in order btw)
Don’t click the time stamp didn’t mean to put it.
Mm rock climbing race!!!
(idea) how about you collab with "gray still plays" or "lets game it out" or "markiplier" and play portal?
hiiii i love ur videos, please upload hello enginear video soon i subscribed !
I once again ask you to build Mil Mi-32 tri propeller helicopter
That would be interesting
if the car wants to lift up while climbing an obstacle then try going backwards
The reason your steering feels bad is because you’re using an electric engine. Electric engines have locked differential throttle, good for climbs but bad for sharp steering. Gas engines do have differential throttle, meaning the wheels can move at different speeds.
The archway you asked about? You did go over it. The archway comes before the bridge
Hello maybe you could play Redcon it's quite an interisting game where you have to build your own base and then battle with it
I wonder what was that sandy(?) area on the other side of the house from the build area?
Looks like some example rocks for while you're building your creation. Or for training.
It's awd vs red the tires are all sending the car in different directions while turning all at the same torque resulting in all 4 tires equally losing grip your turns were working when the terrain was bumpy or when not all 4 tires are fighting
If you win you get your free rocky road 😂(to eat)
nice
AT-AT slowly being made
Isn't the steering issue because both sets of wheels are powered?
you need to go at the steep hills diagonally
You added the weight at the front and did the suspension that wasn’t that good of a decision XD that’s why you always did a frontflip
maybe next time dont worry about aesthetics
“It doesn’t look that hard”
Said no one ever
I love You Video
day 63 of asking scrapman to do a multiplayer where everyone starts at the crashed ship with a craftbot already at the mechanic station and everyone has 30 minutes to build a vehicle from scratch, no glitches, thrusters allowed, after which everyone meets up and races along some road
or is the other vehicle using a gas engine?
Did u find the ducks in the last one
Same
i feel like they first built the car then the course to match it
@11:00 looks like you built a wrc snow suspension - rides low and stable, but extends to absorb terrain that falls away to maintain grip youtu be/-5BHfeFc37c?t=5
I’ll be back
9:30
Your wheels were rubbing on the suspension, that's why you couldn't turn
hi