[NEW] Crystal Clear HDMI For The Commodore 64 In 60 Seconds
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 มิ.ย. 2024
- There's a new way to add HDMI to the Commodore 64 (C64) that uses a new protocol called LumaCode. I am going to take a 60 second challenge to see just how easy it is to install. Thanks to pcbway.com for sponsoring this video!
Be sure to subscribe to my second channel for more retro computer fun! / @retrohackshackafterhours
VICII-dizer board - www.tindie.com/stores/c0pperd...
RGBtoHDMI - retrohackshack.com/shop
Chapters:
00:00 - New Mod
01:27 - Parts
04:06 - LumaCode
06:20 - PCBWay Ad
06:50 - 60 Second Challenge
11:10- Installation
13:21 - Other Systems
Music used by permission:
“Fakebit World” by Malmen
/ malmen
Other music from the TH-cam Audio Library
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#Retro #Computers #commodore64 #hdmi - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
Question: I'm a hardcore C64 artist. I'm used to games on C64 like "Io" with the best GFX available. I had a 1701 monitor, which had perfect video output. Does your hardware setup match? No lags in scrolling, fluid 50Hz all the time? No ghost colours, every single pixel clean and sharp, both in multicolor and highres? If you do RVS ON bulks on the screen with all the colors next to eachother you get evidence: they all must be pure without ghost coloring into eachother. And finally, the analog blur. I do NOT want digital razor sharp pixels that, but the original analog softness.
Great job by all involved in this. Loved the 80s-style montage too.
You totally started a timer on my Ok Google. 🤣
Ha ha. Sorry
he wanted folks at home to feel like they were included in the suspense 😀
That "monochrome option" looks really sharp, and would be a good option for extended coding sessions on the C64.
The"warmup session" is classic, man! Broke a sweat, did you? 😆
Thanks, I wasn't aware of these mods.
Fantastic! Thank you!
Easy modification yet great result,
One thing I wish you did is to make a comparison screenshot for before and after.
Thanks Aaron!
before and after are the same...
@@cathydowns5442 What is the purpose then for this mod?
@ahmad-murery This mod enables you to connect the C64 to an HDMI display. I thought it would be obvious from the title of the video.
@@RetroHackShack Of course, I was replying to @cathydowns5442 when he/she said that the result is the same after and before the mod.
Thanks for the reply Aaron! I really enjoy your videos
Excellent product and video! Love your RGB2HDMI adapter, too. I will be showing/selling an adapter for Commodore PET that outputs HDMI at World of Commodore this December. It uses your board. So hopefully you will have lots in stock soon. Thanks for sharing
I have ordered more. Hopefully they will come in soon.
@@RetroHackShack Do you use Chinese products, or are all components you sell made in USA hopefully? I rather support US than that gruesome authoritarian regime "new world order" trying to control the world 😑
Any chance you could show doing this mod to a Atari 130xe or 800xl?
I just finished doing this mod to one of my breadbins and I must say the results are breathtaking! This is a game changer for those of us who dont have an old Monitor and are sick of the jail bars and noise on the screen from the alternatives. Thanks for doing this video and supplying the RGB2HDMI stuff. Will be ordering more for my other computers soon.
C0pperdragon has a version for the VIC-20, too. Right now, he only has a PAL version, but I just sent him an NTSC 6560-101 so he can reverse engineer the signaling and get the NTSC version done. I get the first one off the line for loaning him the VIC, so I'll be showcasing that on my channel when he's done with it. 😁
I'm curious, what is this 'Analog Board' he is using with the RGB2HDMI & Rasp Pi Zero...??? Any help would really help. Many thanks... : )
Love the videos... any chance you guys would be willing to take on an RGB to HDMI board for the Apple IIgs? :)
Interesting upgrade! What is the latency introduced by VICII-dizer + RGBtoHDMI + HDMI itself?
Very low. I can't remember off the top of my head but it's something like a fraction of a frame.
And if you put a Pi into the process, you can as well run a C64 emulator on the Pi.
Revelation! Will this work on the KU-14194HB breadbin? Can you connect power to the RB from the C64 board? Is this additional analog board necessary? Because on the Tindie website I only see VIC-II-dizer and RGBtoHDMI, can only these two boards be used without the analog board?
You can pull power from the C64 if you are using the Zero. Larger Pis probably not. You do need the analog board.
I have a NASTY idea, why don't use the colour bits to increase resolution? If Black is 0000 and Red is 0100 then we can use that to display Black-White Graphics through this adapter at 640x400 pixels. Or if this doesn't work out, buffer the signal like the Amiga 2024 display does, and then display the frames next to each other.
Thought a bit about it... using colour would be hard because you really have little control about colour on the C64 as you can not really change colour on every pixel however you want. But putting a screenbuffer in that chip that caches several screens and outputs them at higher resolution... that should be possible with this kind of hardware inbetween. So you could get 640x400 at 12,5hz/15hz or even 1280x800 at 3,125/3,75hz. Ok, the last one would be interesting because it would 132kByte of memory if used Hi-Res. But Text-Mode with 16kByte would be still fine.
The Commodore 64C is a great computer.
Sir, you are so much better than any Apple Bar Tender. I drink whatever you're mixing!
Wow, thanks!
Does this work with the breadbin C64? Does it introduce much lag?
Really cool… how about lag when this go through the raspberry pi? I have no clue how this works so excuse my maybe idiotic question. Do you have any lag then or how is this archived? Very cool challenge and great mod 🎉
It is very low. Like a fraction of a frame.
Question. With this solution, what is the best option for outputing sound? Use the Monitor out cable I suppose, but I am not sure how to get the sound to the hdmi signal for the tv? What are others doing to solve this?
If you have no audio input on you monitor, you can buy a HDMI inserter/embedder. Or just use some powered speakers.
Yeah, I wouldn't trust those alligator clips to something I planned on screwing the case back together around. They're anything but permanent!
I think you cheated a little by not having to take the screws out first LOL
Well to be fair that's not a modification.
lol, I was thinking that as it usually takes me a minute just to open the case!
If you use old computers, in general you never have your screws in.
Love the warm-up sequence!
Thanks 😊
Where on your website are these boards for sale???
Will this work alongside the c0pperdragon RF Modulator replacement board if I just connect the output directly to a normal RF socket?
Yeah. I suppose so. Just connect it directly to the rca signal pin and bypass the rest.
@@RetroHackShack Thank you.
@RetroHackShack -
Does this work on only the NTSC machines, or will it work on the PAL models as well?
TIA!
Yes. PAL as well.
Haha, not counting screw removal. But yeah, I like your dramatic music that went with that minute!
Thanks
@@RetroHackShack: You're welcome; happy Halloween! 🎃👻👹☠️😈
Now that this exists, it occurs to me that both the C128's A/V signals and the RGBI output could be sent to the same RGB2HDMI. The pi Hat would just need to be capable of accepting both signals. If it can do that, easily switching between the two might be possible as well. Imagine being able to have your 40 & 80 col sources coming out of the same RGB2HDMI device over a single HDMI cable.
So two of my favorite computers are the Apple II(][ and //e specifically) and the Nintendo Family Computer(Famicom)… is there an option for at least the Apple II's??
I would prefer a switchable solution - does it affect the standard AV port's output, by the way?
There was a bit of a creak when you lifted that VIC chip.
The AV port still works just fine
Hi, any idea when you will have the RGBtoHDMI boards available again?
Next week I think.
@@RetroHackShack- It's a clever way of packing 4 bits for 16 colors encoded in voltage levels. However, without the RF connector patch, you could just snake an HDMI cable directly to the VIC-II/HDMI converter for simplicity. Yes, no, maybe?
60seconds .....your awesome arron!!
Does it work on older c64 motherboards?
Wow! He did it!🥳🎉
Does sound pass through the hdmi or do you need to attach speakers?
I'd like to know as well :) I didn't read anything about audio on C0pperdragon's site either.
No. Sound has to be passed through separately. I usually grab it from the eight pin video din.
Good. I thought maybe the 8 pin might not work when video signal is coming through other connection
What about the latency and will there be a solution for the C128 ?
The warm-up montage was Gold!!!
Super fast but not really very elegant. Thanks for the video!
Does this work with both PAL and NTSC?
Cool video, though I do wish people giving commands to their Smart Home devices would mute the audio. Mine set up the timer, which I then had to cancel.
OK, so with the shield then there _still_ isn't soldering. But yeah, like I said, I would definitely replace the ali-clips with soldered connections.
Fortunately I live in France where TV have a scart connector. The circuitry inside the TV is as good as any one may install inside the C64. Just remove the rf modulator and install a dummy required filter
It sound like this completely replaces the Vic II as long as you don't need the luma/chroma output. Is this true?
Do that exercise montage using an SX-64 next time! 😰 BTW, will this mod work on an SX-64? How about a C128?
Yes for both, but you will need a different dizer board for the C128.
Why is a GND wire required to the modulator? I guess it's connected to GND already anyway?
Haha, I can't wait to see how they figure out the LumiCode for the Apple II, based on what Dave Murray says has to happen in order to show all the colors on one of those, OMH!
Seems to be not a big deal. Just a small finite state machine implemented in FPGA, and voila, the NTSC color encoding becomes a Lunacode.
You can already get this with just the RGBTOHDMI and the analog board. Handles NTSC artifacting perfectly.
I'm assuming there isn't any reason you can't solder those wires to the RF instead of using clip leads.
Correct. They are meant to make it easier for people who don't like to solder.
Should the old RF modulator still be in ? Because I removed it already.
Not necessarily. It won't be used anymore anyway unless you wanted to for some reason.
Hoping a CoCo version comes out some day.
Rofl, my google nexus reacted on your ok google command and did set a timer😂
Sorry. I need to edit that out for next time.
Is it possible to skip the HDMI step and just have C64 to RGB? I have a Sony PVM monitor and currently connect my C64 via SVideo. I'd love to connect it to the RGB input instead!
Not with this particular mod.
where can I find the commodore 64 with the tape deck and floppy disk drive and some of the games I had? I wish I could remember the names of the games I had. Let me know.
I don't think you even need the ground wire. VIC-II and the "dizer" board should already be on the common ground with the RF socket. So, only the "live" wire connected should work the same.
I don't understand why Lumacode is required considering the comparators in the rgb2hdmi does the same thing. I suspect more is happening then just separating colour into a voltage code, like some sort of conversion.
I think in this case it has to do more with the speed of the cpld. It's the same reason this device can't handle color composite signals either. I think it would require a more expensive chip like a large FPGA.
impressive! - and what about sound?
Sound will have to come separately from the av connector. You could get a cheap HDMI combiner if you really wanted to. There is not an efficient way to combine it on the RGBtoHDMI.
@@RetroHackShackNot yet I hope. Would be a boon to make it more plug and play if you will.
Neat little thing. Wondering if hiding the RGB2HDMI inside the box could be a thing as well. How well does it work with those mods that remove the RF box and replaces it with some small thing?
How do you not get 16:9 and go back to 4:3?
I ordered one and the PI shield that go's with it. It did not work, there is no luma coming out of the inter poser board. I messaged c0pperdragon and got a response but It got quiet after that. I send him al the scope data on every pin of the VIC, but still no reply. So I think that is something to be aware of before ordering on tindie. I really wanted this to work in my uni64 uBook.
Please keep us posted. Definitely not gonna purchase if there's no customer support.
I will@@Mario00064
That's odd. I never had a problem even before I started doing videos.
Small update, I got send another board and this one works. And it also works in the uni64 uBook clone!
Do you also get the audio through the HDMI?
No. Audio has to be passed separately or you can use an HDMI combiner.
Not a fan of crocodile clips. The original Copperdragon mod was very good, probably the best quality output of any video mods. I like all these people stressing about "Ok Google".. 😂
Agreed. I would never use them personally, but they are a good option for those who can't solder.
i think the alligator clips are a bit thick too put under the case, there's that other kind that just clips the pins that take up less space (no idea what those are called), but then i guess you have to find an actual ground pin to clip to if you went that way. Anyway, can totally see why they used the alligator clips, they're cheap and easy for a novice to use, and people more experienced might just cut them off and can solder them in.... so a good option for everyone.
If you are in this much of a hurry to get hdmi installed on a retro device, you have bigger issues you should worry about 😂
Exactly. Retro games and low potency marijuana belong in a slower frame-rated life, no matter how much it hertz.
Is there any lag with this mod ?
No
You hacked my phone! My phone set the same timer when you said "Google set a timer for 60 seconds.
Did it end at the same time?
@@RetroHackShack yup and my phone also responded when you said stop. I should make a short of it.
can you boost a bit these washed C64 colors to be more saturated, more exciting and more eye-catching? Cheers!
Yeah. I think the palette is adjustable.
Next time.... warm up with a C64 in each hand, then maybe you can do it in 30 seconds! ;)
I'm just glad I wasn't installing it in a PET.
Looks good but pricey if you don't have any of the parts. All in with shipping it is over $200. (RGB2Hdmi, Analog board, PiZero, VicDizer, cables, Shipping). Because I don't have any of these things I will just stick to my 1702 and Sony PVM. I have used other HDMI converters with varying success. Considering most of these parts are out of stock it is an easy decision. No offense intended and it looks like a great solution for people that already own a RGB2HDMI setup. However, people should know what this set up costs. You might as well buy a Retrotink 2x-pro and just plug into that.
Nothing wrong with a good ole CRT if you have one.
Nice hack.
"If this were a breadboard..."? What do you mean? How would there ever have been a "breadboarded" Commodore 64?
Ha, come to think of it, that would be an interesting project; I hope you breadboard the chips and capacitors, etc. out sometime and make it run, just for the fun of it. But... what should that have to do with this video?
Look at you, showing that your not cheating by making everyone's google device set a timer for you.
❤
The tender site is down 😞
What about digitizing the audio into a SPDIF signal that will feed the HDMI encoder board that feed the HDMI signal to the TV so that you have sound and video.
Unfortunately, that is really resource intensive. The cheapest way is to buy an HDMI combiner.
Why would there need to be a different version of this for each major VIC-II computer model series?
Svideo is good enough.
"Don't do this at home, actually..."
OK, then where do you think the best place for us to do this would be, and why would that place be the supposedly "better place"?
This all seems a touch crazy, in that your adding a computer (Raspberry Pi) with many times the compute power of the '64 just to generate colour video.
Shame Pi cant be fitted internally too so still an all in one unit
Personal preference, but I like that I can use one Pi and move it from system to system.
I’m sorry, but it doesn’t look like a simple mod. I think we have a different idea of what is simple.
Sorry but "challenge" is also written with an "e" in French! 😄
*Challenge ;)
60 seconds but the video is 15 minutes?
I don't want HDMI. It is useless. A C64 needs a screen of maby 30-50cm max. Never found a PAL screen with that size and HDMI. So we need RGB out. And we need a modded ROM to get rid of the unreadable purple on purple.
While you didn't cause a timer like you did for others, I'm unable to get past the point where you tell you Google to stop, it stops my video, when i hit play, it must have jumped back a fraction of a second and hitting play puts me back to you saying "ok Google, stop" in could be here a while. Lol
Please only use the C64 II for mods, and not the good old bread box with the legendary 6581 sound chip.
Alternatively, you can use a video converter box for this without having to disassemble anything.
There are tons of tutorials on TH-cam.
Come up with a single board to combine audio and video into hdmi all done internally and no spaghetti wiring out side and maybe you might have something otherwise this is just half assing it!
Sure. You can do it. How much do you want to pay though?
this is a very expensive solution, and closed source
If only there was a way to use a AUSTEK EN9500GT in a COMMODORE C64.
Just because you're not editing doesn't mean it's live. Besides, you did edit plenty of stuff. A live video is the kind that started out as one that's watched by the audience at the same time as it was first transmitted.
Cool device, but FFS, it's 2023 - why would you issue verbal Google commands on a TH-cam video? I had to stop a timer, and then a minute later apologize to my family downstairs because you just turned off the living room TV.
Over $100 no you won't see a lot more.
What a cheat, removing all screws and covers before you started , shame on you,
Please, do not use phrase "OK, Google..." (or Siri or Alexa) It's kind an annoying.
10:06 dude, please don't ever say 'ok google' on tv ever again. Even worse 'ok google, stop' stops your video playing.
Do me a favour and mute the watchword if you're going to use Google home live on your video. It's common sense that you're setting other people's devices off FFS
People complain about anything these days do me a favour and just enjoy the free video .
@@thomasparks1943 Do me a favour and mind your own business
I was till I ran across some plug complaining that their device got activated by a video they paid nothing for. Man takes his time to make interesting content and you are unnerved because your knockoff Alexa lit up get a life.
@@thomasparks1943 keep running, prick
Makes sense got anything of value anything relevant no just a butthurt crybaby that Critiques other people's work with absolutely nothing to offer have fun in the basement mom wants the rent soon almost the first.
Please mute the "OK Google"s in this video. That's really annoying.
Are they already programmed to work in a C64,128(D), so i have no to flash anything to them,
and i mean also the PI?
The dizers are preprogrammed. You will have to transfer some files to an SD card for the RPi, but no flashing.
@@RetroHackShack and is that also 60 seconds work😄