Lily can also connect cr.HP after the wind DP midscreen, which can lead to a +2 oB Nonwind Medium Spire mix up situation. Additionally, the +2 buff for f.HP allows her to do stuff like DR f.HP into cr.LP into wind DP and only the second hit will connect. It leads to some fun combos. The best I've found midscreen is CH/DR b.HP DR f.HP, cr.LP xx LP Wind Buster. The same starter in the corner, but you can do the buster juggles you mentioned
@@leongt9699 So Invincible Reversal and Perfect Parry beats it, but you recover in time for DI to DI back. If you're expecting them to Parry, you can instead you light spire to stop just before you connect and can throw them with a Punish Counter. Invincible Reversal does beat you clean out though, so yea, doesn't work on everyone. Still useful against characters that don't have one. To add: Depending on the invincible reversal, light spire may also be good to answer it. Good to practice and find out.
@@GemakaiGaming So I don't understand this..."CH/DR b.HP DR f.HP, cr.LP xx LP " What is CH? Are you saying you connect with DR b.HP then DR to f.HP,cr.LP xx light dp?
Wanted to add the wind dp buff doesn't work on crouchers, which is the situation you'll encounter the most, it also doesn't work with DR+light chain unless you cut the combo short by one light, it doesn't work even on standing.
Every top Lily player I follow HATED these changes. It feels like every other bottom tier got noteworthy buffs, while Lily got treated like she was already near the top, not so good she needed nerfs, but good enough that she didn't need anything meaningful, which just doesn't seem to be the general consensus on her, maybe she wasn't bottom 5 before, but she was close, and after this path, might even by bottom 1. I feel the same, but as a non-pro my opinion doesn't really hold any weight. Prior to games release Lily was considered bad but didn't get any buffs before launch and thus was considered bottom 3 till the first big balance patch when she didn't really get any noteworthy changes, but benefitted slightly from some general mechanic changes, and some other character falling, such that while some still had her bottom 3, some had her just out of bottom 5. And here we are, again a new patch, and again, no meaningful buffs. El Chakotay, one of the most noteworthy Lily players, I think said it best when they noted in their thoughts on these changes that they've just given up all hope that Lily will ever be viable, capcom has now consistently shown they don't want her to even be mid tier, they recognize she's at the bottom and are clearly okay with that. Side note, but the removal of her jump command throw option select is a pretty significant nerf to her that I only see people talking about in relation to Zangief, presumably because she's been so consistently bad and seen so little representation as a result, that most people didn't even know she could do it as well.
Manon didn't get much overall either. They also singled out Zangief as a reason for taking away jumpcancel escapes from throw loops. Capcom's bias against grapplers is clear.
@@noboty4168 I just find it funny that these are supposed to be "grapplers", but are changed to be easily thrown to death by non-grapplers now. Characters like Ken and Luke are now the best grapplers in the game due to their one combo corner carry and walk-up throw loops
First the jab scaling nerf, now the jump cancel nerf. Lily keeps catching strays from universal system mechanic nerfs with pretty much no good enough buffs to compensate😔🤦♂
I think Lily is very highly played in Modern because she can manual all her specials and supers so you don’t lose damage in combos, but also get shortcuts for when you need to react.
I'm not too sure about these new DP combos, a lot of the new stuff I've seen people test or suggest have just been worse than stuff she already could do and without the strict spacing requirement. Maybe there's more stuff to find, but atm it seems like it's mainly just for better driveless cashout off a light starter.
I wish that were the case, but I was in a lobby with Lilys, and hardly any of us were able to implement the buff lol, it doesn't work on crouchers(which seems to not be noted anywhere so far except the Chakotay video) the situation you encounter the most. So it's essentially a cosmetic buff lol.
@@Hollowdarling Yeah Chakotay the other day was saying that she basically got no real changes all stream, kept testing stuff and taking suggestions from chat and found they didn't work or weren't better than what she already could do
Of course the first buff to her is “give her another way to hit crouch HP”. It is, after all, her only move.
Lily can also connect cr.HP after the wind DP midscreen, which can lead to a +2 oB Nonwind Medium Spire mix up situation.
Additionally, the +2 buff for f.HP allows her to do stuff like DR f.HP into cr.LP into wind DP and only the second hit will connect. It leads to some fun combos. The best I've found midscreen is CH/DR b.HP DR f.HP, cr.LP xx LP Wind Buster. The same starter in the corner, but you can do the buster juggles you mentioned
That's quite a good find.
if you go for the nonwind medium spire after the cr.HP reset, can't the opponent DI you on reaction? Or invincible reversal or perfect parry
@@leongt9699 So Invincible Reversal and Perfect Parry beats it, but you recover in time for DI to DI back. If you're expecting them to Parry, you can instead you light spire to stop just before you connect and can throw them with a Punish Counter.
Invincible Reversal does beat you clean out though, so yea, doesn't work on everyone. Still useful against characters that don't have one.
To add: Depending on the invincible reversal, light spire may also be good to answer it. Good to practice and find out.
@@GemakaiGaming So I don't understand this..."CH/DR b.HP DR f.HP, cr.LP xx LP " What is CH? Are you saying you connect with DR b.HP then DR to f.HP,cr.LP xx light dp?
Wanted to add the wind dp buff doesn't work on crouchers, which is the situation you'll encounter the most, it also doesn't work with DR+light chain unless you cut the combo short by one light, it doesn't work even on standing.
I didn't notice that he accidentally recorded this on windowed instead of borderless windowed until I read the description
You're still the goat tho
Every top Lily player I follow HATED these changes. It feels like every other bottom tier got noteworthy buffs, while Lily got treated like she was already near the top, not so good she needed nerfs, but good enough that she didn't need anything meaningful, which just doesn't seem to be the general consensus on her, maybe she wasn't bottom 5 before, but she was close, and after this path, might even by bottom 1. I feel the same, but as a non-pro my opinion doesn't really hold any weight. Prior to games release Lily was considered bad but didn't get any buffs before launch and thus was considered bottom 3 till the first big balance patch when she didn't really get any noteworthy changes, but benefitted slightly from some general mechanic changes, and some other character falling, such that while some still had her bottom 3, some had her just out of bottom 5. And here we are, again a new patch, and again, no meaningful buffs. El Chakotay, one of the most noteworthy Lily players, I think said it best when they noted in their thoughts on these changes that they've just given up all hope that Lily will ever be viable, capcom has now consistently shown they don't want her to even be mid tier, they recognize she's at the bottom and are clearly okay with that.
Side note, but the removal of her jump command throw option select is a pretty significant nerf to her that I only see people talking about in relation to Zangief, presumably because she's been so consistently bad and seen so little representation as a result, that most people didn't even know she could do it as well.
Manon didn't get much overall either. They also singled out Zangief as a reason for taking away jumpcancel escapes from throw loops. Capcom's bias against grapplers is clear.
@@noboty4168 I just find it funny that these are supposed to be "grapplers", but are changed to be easily thrown to death by non-grapplers now. Characters like Ken and Luke are now the best grapplers in the game due to their one combo corner carry and walk-up throw loops
First the jab scaling nerf, now the jump cancel nerf. Lily keeps catching strays from universal system mechanic nerfs with pretty much no good enough buffs to compensate😔🤦♂
I think Lily is very highly played in Modern because she can manual all her specials and supers so you don’t lose damage in combos, but also get shortcuts for when you need to react.
W Modern buff
Despite all the buffs, isn’t Lily still like bottom 1 or 2
Buffs?
Lily and Honda, together forever
That was the shortest 4 minutes of my life for some reason.
1:52, instead of sweep, you can use Down Heavy Punch, Condor Spiral to get close to them now. Medium or Light. you will be in their face or safe.
I didn't know that crouch lp had less pushback and makes the link easier. I'll lab that out.
You can get crHP after the single-hit-tomahawk-buster which you can then DR cancel for a mix.
Windowed
I'm not too sure about these new DP combos, a lot of the new stuff I've seen people test or suggest have just been worse than stuff she already could do and without the strict spacing requirement. Maybe there's more stuff to find, but atm it seems like it's mainly just for better driveless cashout off a light starter.
I wish that were the case, but I was in a lobby with Lilys, and hardly any of us were able to implement the buff lol, it doesn't work on crouchers(which seems to not be noted anywhere so far except the Chakotay video) the situation you encounter the most. So it's essentially a cosmetic buff lol.
@@Hollowdarling Yeah Chakotay the other day was saying that she basically got no real changes all stream, kept testing stuff and taking suggestions from chat and found they didn't work or weren't better than what she already could do
You gotta be adding mistakes in on purpose now why is this video in a window
Windowed
(doin gods work as always baf :p)