Great video mate!. It looks like the maximun roof load capacity on the prado 150 is 100kg from its naked form. Whatever system you add you need to reduce the weight from the system and if the system state an off road variable (not the case for the backbone) it will need to be factored in the capacity. I was looking into adding a simple titan tray a few days ago for the prado 150, and the vehicle manual says 80kg max. load on the genuine roof rack and using the cross bars, but then for the Rola tray you need to factor the offroad variable. When I did the mats at the end the load rating is very very low ( around 30-40 kg total). so it seems the worst option. I think the 100kg capacity is more than enough regardless of what a roof rack manufacturer says, we need to remember that the roof load weight is hight up and the vehicle stability and braking capacity force will change considerably. I personally think having more than 100kg load on the roof it could even trigger the VSC while cornering just a bit fast, and have you ever had that kicking in automatically? I had, and was scary as shit. cheers
Thanks for the feedback! You raise some great points. I'm keeping my loads as low as possible (no tent or jerry cans etc, just as a good flat area to keep maxtrax, shovel, and high lift jack, and the awning on it now) I'm sitting on 70ish kgs including the weight of the rack, so that's as far as I'll push it I think. Haven't had VSC engage as yet... by the sounds of your experience, I don't want to either!
Thanks Lucy! Congrats on the VX, you'll love it!! Side note, big GSD fan, before I married Karla, I was GSD all the way, my last pupper, Ziggy, was a 65kg gentle giant 13 yo when we had to send him over the rainbow bridge, miss him terribly, but love our Boxers, madness ensues daily... like a house full of drunk toddlers!!!
Same as the Rhino, with the same disclaimer... "Product Load Rating:150 kg *Please refer to the vehicle manufacturer specifications for max load capacity of vehicle*. The lowest load rating applies. Reductions may apply off road." The very number toyota would not give me, except that their genuine accessories are rated to 80kgs.
Interesting issue still. I just ordered a 2022 Prado, and on the accessories list a pair of aero roof bars ( BTW the GX doesn’t have rails) it says it can carry 80kg, with the addition of a third aero bar it says the rating increases to 100kg. I have opted for three but only to more securely mount a 21kg awning, maxtrax, shovel and a solar panel. No intention of getting anywhere near the 100kg, but an interesting observation from their own website.
Agree, I raised that with Toyota, the rating, they assured me, was for the racks, not the dynamic load capacity, they won't tell you that, just that you can pack whatever the rack states is its maximum assuming its been designed and engineered for the car and model... it's soooo frustrating
Yeah fair enough it could be a fairly complex question to answer as there are many variables, the chassis moves and flexes as you drive, even more so offroad. What happens if you are in an accident and have something on the roof? I sort of don't blame them for not answering as there are a lot of factors and for sure i would not expect them to answer about a third party rack like Rhino. Toyota makes cars not roof racks, Rhino specializes in this so perhaps they could do the research and development to determine the load rating for the roof based on the mounting system and bolts that they provide. Essentially they are then determining the strength of the roof mounting area's. Toyota would not be interested in doing that, fair enough that other car manufacturers have done that but in general I would say adding any weight to the roof in any car adds complexity to the dynamic of the car.
Great comment mate, I agree for the most part, but honestly, asking Toyota what their car is structurally sound for isn't too much to ask is it? I agree the roof rack manufacturer needs to warrant their own capacity, but how do we know that the pardo can take the full 150kgs on the roof that Rhino (or wedgetail etc ) claim their rack is rated for? As I say in the vid, it's buck passing between companies to avoid liability, leaving consumers in the dark over what is, at its core, a safety issue 🤔
Regarding the 80 kg payload - Page 186 of the 2015 Toyota Prado Owner's Manual (pdf) that I downloaded from the 'web on purchasing my 2017 Prado, states the following (in summary): the roof luggage carrier is comprised of the roof rails plus two or more genuine cross rails (my two genuine cross rails look identical to my third which is a Rhino Rack Vortex SX). "Do not exceed 80 Kg (176 lbs) cargo weight on the roof luggage carrier". Note - the weight of the cross rails, whether two or three, is NOT required to be deducted from the 80 kg load capacity. There is no mention of off road use limiting the capacity - presumably that is calculated in the design factor of safety that resulted in the 80 kg capacity, but it does say if driving on rough roads to stop periodically to ensure the load remains secure in place. If you add a tray (I use the awesome Rola Titan) the weight of the tray is to be deducted from the 80 kg capacity. Where the roof luggage system does not include the Toyota's roof rails then it's an entirely different situation with soo many variables! And there in, is the central problem! So in my view, the manufacturer of that third party system should provide guidance on the use of their system when installed using the available fixing points on specific vehicles. No more than 'guidance for the wise', otherwise any limits will be lower than necessary in an attempt to prevent the foolish getting into problems. Finally, for any situation there are many variables - what 'real world' load is fully uniformly distributed? - So always apply common sense, consider the dynamics of the intended use, and try to act as the often quoted 'reasonable person' - a chap that always passes the pub-test when telling his mates 'you'll never guess what happened..' Hope this helps!👍
Thanks Steve, it's a bit of a conundrum... back on my old hilux, the manual stated (paraphrasing as I don't have a copy handy) do not exceed a maximum dynamic load of 100kgs on the roof, and no more than 300kgs static. Do not exceed the maximum rating of any roofrack, or the 100kgs including the weight of the roofrack. No mention of factory rails etc, just a clear maximum weight capacity (along with helpful instructions to follow manufacturer guides etc of any roof accessories fitted, and professional fitting is recommended). Litigation risks now appear to be removing these statements from owners manuals so as to limit instructions to genuine parts only and everything else is on the manufacturer of the accessory ... who tell you not to exceed the structural maximum of the vehicle.... e.g. the prado specific rack from wedgetail (almost identical to the Rhino with backbone struts I bought) rates the rack to 150kgs but to check the structural maximum in your owners manual... which isn't listed (one toyota mechanic did tell me 150kgs is fine, but not an official answer lol) last thing I looked at was the Lexus GX460 in the US, same car, just lexus badged... 300lb structural load maximum which is 136kgs... but no real answers anywhere lol I'm sticking to 80kgs rack and load combined to ensure safety, but it still bothers me that the risks of litigation mean no one gives you a clear answer anymore (not just cars... it's a societal shift).
@@10tenadventures I miss those days too, and I hear your frustrations! I too see it as litigation concerns. But it is the manufacturers that are concerned! If one applies common sense and careful consideration, and takes responsibility for one's own mistakes, then it becomes much less of an issue. An appreciation of a) the structure of the tray (last I saw a Rhino tray it was pop rivited, vs screws in a Rola Titan - sorry) and b) dynamic load impact is the key! There are some great videos on TH-cam comparing static verse dynamic load - some quite entertaining. I'd bet money a Prado roof (without rails) could easily accommodate at 2000kg static load, perhaps even the weight of another Prado. Try standing (carefully) on a baked bean tin to get an appreciation of static load, - perhaps get the wife to join in! Then, for comparison, ask the wife to drop a 2kg hammer on your toe from 600 mm (DON"T) to get an appreciation of dynamic load. It's quite a difference!! In practice, best anyways to keep the heavy stuff in the car, (tools, compressor, beer) and the lighter but bulky stuff (swags, tents, chairs, tables, sleeping bags, clothes etc) on the roof. And MOST importantly - be careful of your back loading and unloading the roof tray! That's perhaps the greater risk in roof loads! Trust me - I know! 😃
All good points Steve, I will say the Rhino I have doesn't seem to have a single rivet, I know rivets were an issue for Ronny Dahl and a few others, but that was the mount to the canopy, not the tray itself, the backbone rails on the prado kit bolt into the oem rail points and the tray bolts onto the rails (I did look at the rola, but wanted something that had backbone style rails which didn't appear to be an option for the rola?)... as for weights and loads, along with my role in compliance management, I'm also a licensed NMI (national measurements institute) technician (NMI techs calibrate and certify anything from weighbridges to supermarket scales through to pertol pumps, dependingon which license(s) you hold), weights and measures were my life for a while lol! It's the other reason the litigation prevention stuff really bothers me... every weighing device I've worked with has to display maximum weights and intervals or it can't be certified (very different to a car, but you get the point)... that said, so few people understand towing weights, gvm, gcm etc, or if they do, many treat it as a guideline and drive dangerously overloaded car and van combos, so yeah, Manufacturers have a lot to be worried about with litigation... sigh...
The short answer is don't put heavy things on the roof. I have decided against a roof rack for now for alot of the reasons you have stated. Plus I'm not interested in the dead weight of the rack. My 2nd hand Prado came with Toyota roof rails which look exactly the same as the Rhino Vortex rails. I have found a number of accessories that will fit the channels so I think I may just stick to that to be honest.
Thanks Shane, I think you make a good point. I definitely want to keep weight down, not looking at putting tents or swags or a celebrity wardrobe up there, literally want it for what's on there, maxtrax, jack, shovel, and maybe an awning for shade down the line, but that's it.
Up until recently I was looking at the Drifta Stockton 270 free standing, but not anymore... I won't go into it, but I won't be using or endorsing Drifta products on this channel... so now looking at the 23zero 270 or, if the budget can stretch it, the bush company 270 freestanding (although too heavy in my mind, so probably not). Any suggestions/recommendations?
Yeah, that's what we are looking at too, main thing for us is light weight, and speed of set-up. We tow the caravan mostly, so have the awning on that when camping, it's the odd day trip, or stopping for lunch on a drive where we wand something we can open and pack quickly.
You make mention of the Ronny Dahl & Tyler Thompson videos about Rihno racks failings. I have a family relative “in the industry” who attends all the trade shows / 4WD & Caravan Camping shows etc & all the company reps all get together during setup day and chat etc. Rhino really didn’t appreciate the way Ronny & Tyler went about publicly bagging their products after being “sponsored”, rather than getting together with the company and finding a solution. So the word spread really fast throughout the entire industry & that’s made it much much harder now for any TH-camrs to get sponsorship as a result. They figure there is less risk just paying for advertising through traditional channels rather than risking “blowback” by sponsoring “influencers” like Ronny & Tyler. The whole industry learned a lesson from their betrayal & that’s just made it way harder for everyone else now to get any sort of sponsorship unfortunately.
Thanks Ian, you make some very valid points. Personally, I don't like the sponsored video thing... I figure the general rule would be "I'm getting paid to promote this item, I want to keep getting paid, so I'll say it's great" the juggernaut that is TIAV have this down pat, and are now more of an advertising channel, rather than adventure and travel (at least that's how it feels when I'm watching their new vids vs old). Anyway, back to the Rhino rack and the aforementioned vids, you are bang on, Rhino copped a massive backlash on those vids (echoed in some of the comments on this video)... I ultimately went with Rhino after it was recommended by no less than 4 accessories companies, and I did a lot more research as I was sceptical after seeing Tyler and Ronny's vids. End of the day, regardless of what anyone tells you (especially if it's a social media influencer) step back, ask around, ask the professionals (I.e. a roofrack dealer as I did here), and make your own choice... the beauty of 4x4 modding is we are all different, our cars are how we want them, and reflect our ideas of the perfect setup for ourselves. What works for me may not work for you. Thanks for watching my vid, and the thoughtful comment, I really appreciate the interactions and opinions of everyone who comments (yep, even the occasional troll lol) Cheers, Chris
I learnt about the roof rack load capacity concept thanks to a vlog from Ronny Dahl and his experience which lead me to check the Owners Manual for the Fortuner. The Toyota Owners Manual states 75 kilos as the maximum weight capacity for the Fortuner. Rhino roof rack website clearly states that the load capacity mentioned in the owners manual minus the weight of the roof rack (pioneer plus back bone system) is 42 kilos (on and off road). The before mentioned weight does not include any roof rack accessories. I have checked Toyota Prado Owners Manual for 150 series online (June ‘21 and later models) at Toyota Owners Manual AU. Section 4-1 “Before Driving” Page 190, clearly states in the Caution section - “Do not exceed 80 kgs cargo weight on the roof luggage carrier”. If you go to the Rhino NZ (I am sure that it won’t be too different to that in AU) website and when you have mentioned your Vehicle Make and Model, one of the sub-sections for the pioneer roof rack system with the backbone system will ask you your manufacturers mentioned load capacity and will then state the actual load you can carry on your roof rack minus the weight of the pioneer system. I have checked this out for Prado 2022 model and Rhino Rack NZ mentioned the following. 80 kgs - 36 kgs = 44 kgs (on and off road capacity) for the Prado. The load capacity mentioned on Rhino Rack website for the Prado does not include any roof rack accessories. I could be wrong in my understanding and interpretation of what is mentioned in the Toyota owners manual and the Rhino rack website.
Yeah, the 80kgs on the luggage carrier (clarified with toyota and mentioned in the video) is their "genuine accessory" and what it is rated to carry, not the structural maximum the vehicle can carry. Their alloy luggage carrier weighs in at 20+ kgs, so you could deduce a capacity of 100 kgs including weight of rack, but annoyingly, Toyota won't tell you the rating of the vehicle, only the rating of their rack accessory... the buck passing comes in as "if your third party rack, built for the prado specifically has a rating of 150kgs, then that's what you can carry, toyota assumes the third party manufacturer builds the rack, and tests it with the vehicle to get an engineered specification and rating"... all manufacturers state in some variation or another (wedgetail is probably the easiest to get the specific wording) "our rack is rated upto 150kgs, including the weight of the rack, but check with your vehicle manufacturer for your vehicle load capacity"
All I can say is play it safe. Toyota will not comment as many many other factors exist which is out of their control. What we do, in terms of aftermarket modifications and accessories, is technically out of Toyota’s control. Rhino Rack is a third party and will always wash their hands off as and when they can to save their skin. This is the story with any aftermarket third party modification. They will give you standard Australian or NZ warranty and try to find every reason under the fine print to save their skin when things do not go their way. I am still trying to learn and understand 4WD’s, Off roading, Touring, and aftermarket modifications. I will also suggest viewing vlogs from Ronny Dahl, Auto Expert John Cadogan and Tyler Thompson. Unless and until you are sponsored or have lots of money to spare, I would strongly suggest caution and a safe approach. Of course, your ship your command.
I agree with you, my concern is with everyone passing responsibility to everyone else, as consumers we are stuck guessing or playing it over cautious, and still risk getting it wrong. I've watched all those you've mentioned, and am a big fan of @RonnyDahl, worth looking at #firetofork, Harry has a lot of weight on his prado VX roof (he's good mates with Ronny too).
@@10tenadventures When manufacturers discuss a roof capacity limit, it is a maximum weight on the roof to maintain dynamic stability. Exceed it at your peril. Suzuki advise a maximum roof load of 40 kg for the new Jimny. I have seen roofracks advertised for the Jimny that exceed that weight. The manufacturers of roof racks really couldn’t care less if their product is in effect a useless and expensive ornament for people seeking to operate within the design limits of their vehicle. At the end of the day it is caveat emptor. A good example of the cynicism of the 4wd aftermarket industry is the marketing of GVM upgrades. These are complete crap and just further encourage people to further overload their vehicles. If the simple mods of a GVM upgrade actually worked to safely increase a vehicles load capacity, the car manufacturers would already have done it. If I am travelling over rough roads I want my vehicle as lightly loaded as possible to ensure I dont break anything. Or I would hire a vehicle so I don’t wreck my own car over a crappy corrugated road like the Gibb, or the Great Central Roads as two examples.
Agree on the dynamic stability, that's the entire reason I want to know what it is, but toyota won't give a direct answer... a simple do not exceed xxkgs would be great, but they won't answer that (they wouldn't even tell me the static load maximum!!!) They only refer to genuine accessory limits, not what the car can be safely loaded with without damaging the roof, stability, or even something as simple as not setting off the curtain airbags... they had that info in my 2018 fortuner manual (100kgs load capacity) and in my 2012 hilux manual (same 100kg max weight), and also the static loads, not the 2021 Prado.... as for the 80kgs people suggest, one of the sales reps said "oh, we dont state it, its up to the roofrack manufacturer, but 150kgs should be fine"... either no internal communication on the matter, misinformed rep, or thats what they believe... out of curiosity I went iver to the US lexus website and looked at the 460 (Prado chassis with a beefier engine) their site stated in pounds, once converted its 138kgs dynamic load rated, so just confuses the issue more... as for GVM, we'll have to agree to disagree there mate, I have one on the Prado as with all the wagon range Toyota's (200s 150s, Fortuners etc.) Once you have a bullbar and winch on them, you're at or over front axle limit, and forget about towing anything if you have a family of 5 on board (especially if you have teenage kids) Cheers for the comment, hope you enjoy the vids
With the backbone system, one needs to access through the inner roof liner for inserting the bolts. Does the maintenance include checking the tightness of these bolts on regular intervals? If so then is it an issue to access the bolts through the inner roof liner during regular interval checks? I hope I am getting my question right.
I don't believe so, the bolts are inserted from the top into the existing bolt holes for the oem rails. GX may be different as no oem rails, but from the assembly instructions Roof Rack Superstore gave me, it's all external work, no need to access internal lining
Not when you sleep in it, static load is theoretically the weight of the vehicle (should be able to be upside-down without collapsing the roof) its the dynamic load that's the issue... and yeah, 35kg rack and 55kg tent, and you're at capacity... except they won't tell you what the actual maximum is except for "toyota genuine" accessories... it's a bloody pain
The 80kgs refers to the genuine roofrack, not the roof itself, they also do not provide a static weight limit. That is the whole point of this video, they will only tell you what the accessories are rated for. You can't get a safe limit for an aftermarket roofrack that might be rated to 150kgs with a disclaimer of not to exceed the vehicle manufacturer roof maximum. Toyota Australia themselves (not the dealer) told me they will only rate genuine accessories and their genuine accessory is rated to 80kgs... go over that and the rack itself will fail, not the roof
Thanks for the vid and information. On behalf of Toyota and Rhino, that’s pathetic. Typical of todays lack of information and protection of one’s arse. Cheers mate. 🍺
Wish it was that easy, toyota has the ability to state they only test and warrant on toyota genuine accessories. It is up to 3rd party manufacturers to provide their own specifications. Unfortunately that leaves all of us wondering what the rack can legally carry... e.g. wedgetail state their rack can carry 150kgs (including weight of the rack), but big asterisk on the 150kgs of do not exceed the roof capacity of the vehicle.... the figure Toyota won't provide except where their own genuine accessories are used...
@@10tenadventures that why we need more complaint to ACCC so manufactory need provide extra support for third party accessory or they must provide what we need. Second option is stop buying from toyota(this option more powerful and need big group of toyota owner stay in our side). Sick of 150kg load which still useless for rooftop tent. I hope more people like you create the video and ask for group of owner to push toyota stop make mesh and ruin our style.
People put rack systems on with a tent, and sleep a couple of people up there with bedding and accessories. Up around 200kgs. I’d not be keen to do that.
Static load, should be fine, technically while stationary the vehicle should be able to support its own weight on the roof. Now dynamic load, the weight of the tent, awning, and all the other accessories people put up there, will absolutely exceed the 80kgs that Toyota claim is maximum for the factory rails... I wouldn't want to drive around with that either
It should be the responsibility of the manufacturers of the aftermartket accessories to develop their add on products within manufacturer spesifications and understand the limits and tolerances through scientific R&D and be able to advise the owners accordingly. They or the owners of the vehicle cannot expect to laden a vehicle with overlanding accessories (tyres, rims, suspensions, bull bars, drawer systems, additional spare wheels, fridges, roof racks, rooftop tents, additional fuel tanks, etc, etc, etc,) and expect it still to be within manufacturer tolerances or expect the manufacturer to start disecting spesifications for roof carrying capacity when every other tolerance may have also been exceeded or altered. Come on guys you have been duped into spending small fortunes on vehicles that were never designed or marketed to be fully fledged overlanding vehicles. It is like adding all those weighty offroad accessories and still expecting it to have the same carrying capacity that it had when it was standard. Sure, it looks great but that is about it! It is unsafe and has zero legal carrying capacity left.
Rhino have changed their website to remove the notification that capacity is reduced by 1/3rd the moment you go off-road. Other brands (tracklander for eg), don’t carry that warning so essentially you don’t lose 1/3rd capacity the moment you turn off the bitumen onto a gravel road. I’d suggest you go back and re-watch Ronny Dahl & Tyler Thompson’s videos on their issues with Rhino rack. Word must have spread because every man & his dog is selling Rhino racks on Facebook market place as direct result of the bad publicity. You also don’t cover the difference between static (stationary / parked) roof load & dynamic roof load (ie while moving). The roof of the Prado is engineered to support the full weight of the vehicle in a roll over situation, without the support pillars collapsing, in order to protect the occupants. So “static” load the roof can support the approx 2+ tonnes of the vehicle GVM which is why you can put a roof top tent up there and sleep on top while stationary / parked. But you can’t exceed the manufacturers dynamic roof load limits in order to not interfere with stability and cause a engineering fail in the “moose test” engineered swerve situation. According to the pundits that’s 100kgs for the Prado. But alterations to suspension (ie suspension lift is larger roll moment due to raised centre of gravity) means that you can’t then go by the manufacturers max dynamic roof load because it can alter due to aftermarket alterations like suspension lifts. This CAN be compensated for somewhat with heavier (stiffer) sway bars front & rear to try and counter act the larger roll moment - however, you can’t change the laws of physics. Higher C.O.G - equals larger roll moment (decreased stability) in the dynamic loading swerve test situation. Most suspension lifts and GVM upgrades don’t seem to provide stiffer / heavier stabiliser bars - because these then reduce suspension flex. How do you expect Toyota to provide these dynamic stability figures for roof loading when they have no control over what you bolt on or put inside your vehicle or where you put it? The KAON rear shelf allows you to move a lot of potential weight up near roof height - again altering potential dynamic stability, twin battery systems, fridges, drawers, 270 awnings, the weight that gets stuck onto and into “factory standard” vehicles, (tow bars & bill bars for eg) often when delivered new with the vehicle by your Toyota dealer because you ordered it new that way equipped means that the figures would be different for basically every vehicle they sell. This is one of those “how long is a piece of string” type questions, that you can’t blame Toyota for trying to avoid answering. Just recently Ford ran into issues with their advertising for Ranger vehicles depicting a factory delivered vehicle with roof rack that was clearly overloaded, based on their dynamic roof load figures and they ended up being done for “false advertising” by the ACCC and had to pay $2k back to every Ranger buyer because they were misled by the company advertising. The more people like Dahl, Thompson & now yourself berate manufacturers about pedantic issues like this, it will end up that you can’t even put a sticker on your window because your warranty will be voided. 🙄 It’s got to the point of being bloody ridiculous. You could spend serious coin doing GVM upgrades to carry more payload and get all the numbers perfect only to find out that if weighed over the scales by the heavy haulage transport inspectors (mermaids) that your still exceeding one of the individual axel load limits. Suddenly every off roader with a TH-cam channel wants to be a backyard automotive engineer. 🙄
You have to download the “fitting instructions” pdf off their website. The 1/3 off road weight reduction is mentioned in there according to John Cadogans Auto expert “don’t buy a rhino rack” video.
Not on the prado kit, it doesn't lose anything offroad, other rhino kits do, depending on how they attach to the vehicle. It's one if the things I looked at carefully before choosing it
@@10tenadventures Only going by what’s shown on this video - he shows the reduction details document from the Installation Instructions PDF downloaded off the Rhino website. th-cam.com/video/V9w7xczHN6k/w-d-xo.html I’m in the situation of needing to buy a rack for my 2020 VX Prado so have also been researching this to death because I’m a little particular (OK pedantic is probably a fitting description 😜😂) about what I fit to my vehicle. All ARB products are off the list, not a fan these days. At this point Tracklander or Rola Titan are the two it’s come down to, trying to decide which one at the moment. This is my Prado build video thus far if it’s any interest. th-cam.com/video/Q-qq5C1H9HA/w-d-xo.html
I'll check out your build tonight mate, Always keen to see another prado fit out! Just went over the install instructions that roofrack superstore gave me after fitting the rack, no mention of offroad limits in it for the prado set up. Hit me up on the Facebook page, happy to share pics of the physical guide, it may be Rhino modified the rack, mine is literally 4 weeks old. The way RRSS and TJM explained it to me is it is the way the backbone system attaches to wagons vs Utes is where the issues start. We looked at rola and wedgetail as options, but, right or wrong, went with Rhino. I will say that Ronny and others had me looking at everything but Rhino to begin with, but have since had multiple installers, and the Rhino website itself put me at ease with the decision. So far very happy, the rack is quiet, and I'm not putting tents or any very heavy loads on there regardless. End of the day, Rhino took a beating over the offroad rating, and have seemingly modified both website and product to mitigate where possible. As for what we put on our cars, 4x4s would be very boring if we all did the same thing 😀 I'll let you know what I like with your build !
@@10tenadventures No worries. I will check out your Facebook page for sure. Always happy to learn from others experience before shelling out the hard earned on any product. Your also welcome to check out my Sandgroper Prados Facebook page if you feel like it, it’s only new & for us here in the west. 👍
It is ridiculous, I agree, the issue isn't so much they don't know, it's that they will only provide a weight their genuine accessories are rated for. They won't tell you what the rating is for aftermarket accessories. It's bloody frustrating, all in the name of blame dodging if something goes wrong.
The answer is the capacity when you are doing what ? Driving on an incline vs onroad would be very different , the real answer is 80kg but you dont want to hear that so i suggest you go buy a nissan , good luck .
Not according to Toyota it isnt, their words and I quote "our genuine rooftop luggage carrier accessory has been safely tested to 80kgs not including the weight of the carrier. Any aftermatket roof rack or platform, toyota assumes the rack has been designed to fit the vehicle, and any engineering specifications, load limits etc. are per the manufacturer of the accessory"
I know the feeling Bill, that's the problem Toyota's official answer is... get stuffed basically... if it helps, the lexus gx470 (prado chassis with a v6 petrol engine) in the us has a roof capacity of 300lbs or roughly 136kgs, that's the best answer I have unfortunately... but ring toyota Australia and pressure them for an answer, you'll get nowhere, but maybe if enough of us do it, something might happen
@@10tenadventures Good reply. Props. Maybe we could call that USA evidence if there was an insurance issue. FFS Toyota do need to come clean. Ranger, now that's carrying on a bit but I get ya.
Rangers and Everests ... gotta have a giggle right? Thanks for watching anyway, sorry I didn't have the full answers... I have to avoid giving misinformation obviously. Unofficially the word I hear is 150kgs should be OK if that's the racks rated limit (see wedgetail as an example, they still have the "manufacturer roof limit pending" clause) but that's from a Toyota service centre worker, and in no way official response, more of a "she'll be right mate" answer....
How so? They've been more helpful than toyota and provide a handy calculator to ensure you know the rack weight and payload... Toyota just say "nope, not telling you" we looked at multiple racks from rhino, wedgetail, Offroad Animal, frontier, they all have the same issue "our racks can carry X kgs, but check with the vehicle manufacturer to ensure you don't exceed the load capacity of your vehicles roof...
@@10tenadventures Rhino rack are basically not suitable for any offroad use. They are the only manufacture that de-rates their platform "offroad" On a prado, when offroad, you might be lucky to carry 20kgs. Look at all the other brands as you mentioned..
Not true, no loss of load capacity off road using the backbone rails. This is very clearly stated on their website using the load calculator. Load rating loss I based on the support struts to the vehicle, and how they are secured. Wedgetail, for example, uses the same backbone system as Rhino, and, just like Rhino, does not lose load capacity off road. The issue you are bagging out primarily affects rear canopy mounts and clip on style struts. I did a lot of research before putting a Rhino platform on my car, and have no concerns at all with it 😀 I can understand people being brand hesitant, especially if they've had the same issue as Ronni Dahl etc. But what you are stating is not accurate for the setup I used (recommended set up for the platform)
@@10tenadventures I don't think you understand the actual Rhino issue very well. You seem to have a totally different understanding to everyone else. Yes, Rhino may have recently updated their website and offroad ratings on their website, likely due to public outrage.
Ok, let's take Rhino out of the equation for a moment and look at the actual point of the video. Sure wedgetail warrant their rack for 150kgs, provided "this is inside the vehicle manufacturers specifications and load rating" a rating that TOYOTA AUSTRALIA will NOT provide. That is the whole point of this, spend $87k on a new Toyota and not be able to get a weight rating for your roof that ALL roof rack manufacturers state you must be within to ensure your warranty... not to mention safety concerns with inadvertently exceeding the structural integrity of the vehicle
People are also forgetting their responsibility in regard to the vehicle handling effects and potential enforcement action taken in regard to that.
Absolutely, and these responsibilities are not stressed enough to learner drivers (if at all) and aren't in any license testing questions
Great video mate!. It looks like the maximun roof load capacity on the prado 150 is 100kg from its naked form. Whatever system you add you need to reduce the weight from the system and if the system state an off road variable (not the case for the backbone) it will need to be factored in the capacity. I was looking into adding a simple titan tray a few days ago for the prado 150, and the vehicle manual says 80kg max. load on the genuine roof rack and using the cross bars, but then for the Rola tray you need to factor the offroad variable. When I did the mats at the end the load rating is very very low ( around 30-40 kg total). so it seems the worst option.
I think the 100kg capacity is more than enough regardless of what a roof rack manufacturer says, we need to remember that the roof load weight is hight up and the vehicle stability and braking capacity force will change considerably. I personally think having more than 100kg load on the roof it could even trigger the VSC while cornering just a bit fast, and have you ever had that kicking in automatically? I had, and was scary as shit. cheers
Thanks for the feedback! You raise some great points. I'm keeping my loads as low as possible (no tent or jerry cans etc, just as a good flat area to keep maxtrax, shovel, and high lift jack, and the awning on it now) I'm sitting on 70ish kgs including the weight of the rack, so that's as far as I'll push it I think. Haven't had VSC engage as yet... by the sounds of your experience, I don't want to either!
Hey mate good video. I just purchased a new 22 VX and got the same rack put on. It’s a shame this is even a problem. Keep us the great content 🙏
*keep up
Thanks Lucy! Congrats on the VX, you'll love it!! Side note, big GSD fan, before I married Karla, I was GSD all the way, my last pupper, Ziggy, was a 65kg gentle giant 13 yo when we had to send him over the rainbow bridge, miss him terribly, but love our Boxers, madness ensues daily... like a house full of drunk toddlers!!!
The Yakima LockNLoad Platform + Ruggedline set up is rated for 150kg for the Prado. There is no off road reduction.
Same as the Rhino, with the same disclaimer... "Product Load Rating:150 kg *Please refer to the vehicle manufacturer specifications for max load capacity of vehicle*. The lowest load rating applies. Reductions may apply off road."
The very number toyota would not give me, except that their genuine accessories are rated to 80kgs.
Now I’m really confused …
You and me both... according to Ronny Dahl, it's 100kgs, but again, no official word from toyota, so take it with a grain of salt
Interesting issue still. I just ordered a 2022 Prado, and on the accessories list a pair of aero roof bars ( BTW the GX doesn’t have rails) it says it can carry 80kg, with the addition of a third aero bar it says the rating increases to 100kg. I have opted for three but only to more securely mount a 21kg awning, maxtrax, shovel and a solar panel. No intention of getting anywhere near the 100kg, but an interesting observation from their own website.
Agree, I raised that with Toyota, the rating, they assured me, was for the racks, not the dynamic load capacity, they won't tell you that, just that you can pack whatever the rack states is its maximum assuming its been designed and engineered for the car and model... it's soooo frustrating
And congrats on the order of your new rig, you'll love it!!!!
Love your car by the way, looks awsomme 👍
Thanks Fred! By far the best car I've owned! Hopefully some good offroad filming to come
Yeah fair enough it could be a fairly complex question to answer as there are many variables, the chassis moves and flexes as you drive, even more so offroad. What happens if you are in an accident and have something on the roof?
I sort of don't blame them for not answering as there are a lot of factors and for sure i would not expect them to answer about a third party rack like Rhino.
Toyota makes cars not roof racks, Rhino specializes in this so perhaps they could do the research and development to determine the load rating for the roof based on the mounting system and bolts that they provide. Essentially they are then determining the strength of the roof mounting area's. Toyota would not be interested in doing that, fair enough that other car manufacturers have done that but in general I would say adding any weight to the roof in any car adds complexity to the dynamic of the car.
Great comment mate, I agree for the most part, but honestly, asking Toyota what their car is structurally sound for isn't too much to ask is it? I agree the roof rack manufacturer needs to warrant their own capacity, but how do we know that the pardo can take the full 150kgs on the roof that Rhino (or wedgetail etc ) claim their rack is rated for? As I say in the vid, it's buck passing between companies to avoid liability, leaving consumers in the dark over what is, at its core, a safety issue 🤔
Regarding the 80 kg payload - Page 186 of the 2015 Toyota Prado Owner's Manual (pdf) that I downloaded from the 'web on purchasing my 2017 Prado, states the following (in summary): the roof luggage carrier is comprised of the roof rails plus two or more genuine cross rails (my two genuine cross rails look identical to my third which is a Rhino Rack Vortex SX). "Do not exceed 80 Kg (176 lbs) cargo weight on the roof luggage carrier". Note - the weight of the cross rails, whether two or three, is NOT required to be deducted from the 80 kg load capacity. There is no mention of off road use limiting the capacity - presumably that is calculated in the design factor of safety that resulted in the 80 kg capacity, but it does say if driving on rough roads to stop periodically to ensure the load remains secure in place. If you add a tray (I use the awesome Rola Titan) the weight of the tray is to be deducted from the 80 kg capacity.
Where the roof luggage system does not include the Toyota's roof rails then it's an entirely different situation with soo many variables! And there in, is the central problem! So in my view, the manufacturer of that third party system should provide guidance on the use of their system when installed using the available fixing points on specific vehicles. No more than 'guidance for the wise', otherwise any limits will be lower than necessary in an attempt to prevent the foolish getting into problems.
Finally, for any situation there are many variables - what 'real world' load is fully uniformly distributed? - So always apply common sense, consider the dynamics of the intended use, and try to act as the often quoted 'reasonable person' - a chap that always passes the pub-test when telling his mates 'you'll never guess what happened..'
Hope this helps!👍
Thanks Steve, it's a bit of a conundrum... back on my old hilux, the manual stated (paraphrasing as I don't have a copy handy) do not exceed a maximum dynamic load of 100kgs on the roof, and no more than 300kgs static. Do not exceed the maximum rating of any roofrack, or the 100kgs including the weight of the roofrack. No mention of factory rails etc, just a clear maximum weight capacity (along with helpful instructions to follow manufacturer guides etc of any roof accessories fitted, and professional fitting is recommended). Litigation risks now appear to be removing these statements from owners manuals so as to limit instructions to genuine parts only and everything else is on the manufacturer of the accessory ... who tell you not to exceed the structural maximum of the vehicle.... e.g. the prado specific rack from wedgetail (almost identical to the Rhino with backbone struts I bought) rates the rack to 150kgs but to check the structural maximum in your owners manual... which isn't listed (one toyota mechanic did tell me 150kgs is fine, but not an official answer lol) last thing I looked at was the Lexus GX460 in the US, same car, just lexus badged... 300lb structural load maximum which is 136kgs... but no real answers anywhere lol I'm sticking to 80kgs rack and load combined to ensure safety, but it still bothers me that the risks of litigation mean no one gives you a clear answer anymore (not just cars... it's a societal shift).
@@10tenadventures I miss those days too, and I hear your frustrations! I too see it as litigation concerns. But it is the manufacturers that are concerned! If one applies common sense and careful consideration, and takes responsibility for one's own mistakes, then it becomes much less of an issue. An appreciation of a) the structure of the tray (last I saw a Rhino tray it was pop rivited, vs screws in a Rola Titan - sorry) and b) dynamic load impact is the key! There are some great videos on TH-cam comparing static verse dynamic load - some quite entertaining. I'd bet money a Prado roof (without rails) could easily accommodate at 2000kg static load, perhaps even the weight of another Prado. Try standing (carefully) on a baked bean tin to get an appreciation of static load, - perhaps get the wife to join in! Then, for comparison, ask the wife to drop a 2kg hammer on your toe from 600 mm (DON"T) to get an appreciation of dynamic load. It's quite a difference!!
In practice, best anyways to keep the heavy stuff in the car, (tools, compressor, beer) and the lighter but bulky stuff (swags, tents, chairs, tables, sleeping bags, clothes etc) on the roof. And MOST importantly - be careful of your back loading and unloading the roof tray! That's perhaps the greater risk in roof loads! Trust me - I know! 😃
All good points Steve, I will say the Rhino I have doesn't seem to have a single rivet, I know rivets were an issue for Ronny Dahl and a few others, but that was the mount to the canopy, not the tray itself, the backbone rails on the prado kit bolt into the oem rail points and the tray bolts onto the rails (I did look at the rola, but wanted something that had backbone style rails which didn't appear to be an option for the rola?)... as for weights and loads, along with my role in compliance management, I'm also a licensed NMI (national measurements institute) technician (NMI techs calibrate and certify anything from weighbridges to supermarket scales through to pertol pumps, dependingon which license(s) you hold), weights and measures were my life for a while lol! It's the other reason the litigation prevention stuff really bothers me... every weighing device I've worked with has to display maximum weights and intervals or it can't be certified (very different to a car, but you get the point)... that said, so few people understand towing weights, gvm, gcm etc, or if they do, many treat it as a guideline and drive dangerously overloaded car and van combos, so yeah, Manufacturers have a lot to be worried about with litigation... sigh...
The short answer is don't put heavy things on the roof. I have decided against a roof rack for now for alot of the reasons you have stated. Plus I'm not interested in the dead weight of the rack. My 2nd hand Prado came with Toyota roof rails which look exactly the same as the Rhino Vortex rails. I have found a number of accessories that will fit the channels so I think I may just stick to that to be honest.
Thanks Shane, I think you make a good point. I definitely want to keep weight down, not looking at putting tents or swags or a celebrity wardrobe up there, literally want it for what's on there, maxtrax, jack, shovel, and maybe an awning for shade down the line, but that's it.
@@10tenadventures what awning do you have in mind?
Up until recently I was looking at the Drifta Stockton 270 free standing, but not anymore... I won't go into it, but I won't be using or endorsing Drifta products on this channel... so now looking at the 23zero 270 or, if the budget can stretch it, the bush company 270 freestanding (although too heavy in my mind, so probably not). Any suggestions/recommendations?
@@10tenadventures I have been considering anew option from 23Zero. The Osprey 270. Only weighs 18kg and is 2250mm in length at $699
Yeah, that's what we are looking at too, main thing for us is light weight, and speed of set-up. We tow the caravan mostly, so have the awning on that when camping, it's the odd day trip, or stopping for lunch on a drive where we wand something we can open and pack quickly.
You make mention of the Ronny Dahl & Tyler Thompson videos about Rihno racks failings.
I have a family relative “in the industry” who attends all the trade shows / 4WD & Caravan Camping shows etc & all the company reps all get together during setup day and chat etc.
Rhino really didn’t appreciate the way Ronny & Tyler went about publicly bagging their products after being “sponsored”, rather than getting together with the company and finding a solution.
So the word spread really fast throughout the entire industry & that’s made it much much harder now for any TH-camrs to get sponsorship as a result.
They figure there is less risk just paying for advertising through traditional channels rather than risking “blowback” by sponsoring “influencers” like Ronny & Tyler.
The whole industry learned a lesson from their betrayal & that’s just made it way harder for everyone else now to get any sort of sponsorship unfortunately.
Thanks Ian, you make some very valid points. Personally, I don't like the sponsored video thing... I figure the general rule would be "I'm getting paid to promote this item, I want to keep getting paid, so I'll say it's great" the juggernaut that is TIAV have this down pat, and are now more of an advertising channel, rather than adventure and travel (at least that's how it feels when I'm watching their new vids vs old).
Anyway, back to the Rhino rack and the aforementioned vids, you are bang on, Rhino copped a massive backlash on those vids (echoed in some of the comments on this video)... I ultimately went with Rhino after it was recommended by no less than 4 accessories companies, and I did a lot more research as I was sceptical after seeing Tyler and Ronny's vids.
End of the day, regardless of what anyone tells you (especially if it's a social media influencer) step back, ask around, ask the professionals (I.e. a roofrack dealer as I did here), and make your own choice... the beauty of 4x4 modding is we are all different, our cars are how we want them, and reflect our ideas of the perfect setup for ourselves. What works for me may not work for you.
Thanks for watching my vid, and the thoughtful comment, I really appreciate the interactions and opinions of everyone who comments (yep, even the occasional troll lol)
Cheers,
Chris
I learnt about the roof rack load capacity concept thanks to a vlog from Ronny Dahl and his experience which lead me to check the Owners Manual for the Fortuner. The Toyota Owners Manual states 75 kilos as the maximum weight capacity for the Fortuner. Rhino roof rack website clearly states that the load capacity mentioned in the owners manual minus the weight of the roof rack (pioneer plus back bone system) is 42 kilos (on and off road). The before mentioned weight does not include any roof rack accessories. I have checked Toyota Prado Owners Manual for 150 series online (June ‘21 and later models) at Toyota Owners Manual AU. Section 4-1 “Before Driving” Page 190, clearly states in the Caution section - “Do not exceed 80 kgs cargo weight on the roof luggage carrier”.
If you go to the Rhino NZ (I am sure that it won’t be too different to that in AU) website and when you have mentioned your Vehicle Make and Model, one of the sub-sections for the pioneer roof rack system with the backbone system will ask you your manufacturers mentioned load capacity and will then state the actual load you can carry on your roof rack minus the weight of the pioneer system.
I have checked this out for Prado 2022 model and Rhino Rack NZ mentioned the following. 80 kgs - 36 kgs = 44 kgs (on and off road capacity) for the Prado. The load capacity mentioned on Rhino Rack website for the Prado does not include any roof rack accessories.
I could be wrong in my understanding and interpretation of what is mentioned in the Toyota owners manual and the Rhino rack website.
Yeah, the 80kgs on the luggage carrier (clarified with toyota and mentioned in the video) is their "genuine accessory" and what it is rated to carry, not the structural maximum the vehicle can carry. Their alloy luggage carrier weighs in at 20+ kgs, so you could deduce a capacity of 100 kgs including weight of rack, but annoyingly, Toyota won't tell you the rating of the vehicle, only the rating of their rack accessory... the buck passing comes in as "if your third party rack, built for the prado specifically has a rating of 150kgs, then that's what you can carry, toyota assumes the third party manufacturer builds the rack, and tests it with the vehicle to get an engineered specification and rating"... all manufacturers state in some variation or another (wedgetail is probably the easiest to get the specific wording) "our rack is rated upto 150kgs, including the weight of the rack, but check with your vehicle manufacturer for your vehicle load capacity"
All I can say is play it safe.
Toyota will not comment as many many other factors exist which is out of their control. What we do, in terms of aftermarket modifications and accessories, is technically out of Toyota’s control.
Rhino Rack is a third party and will always wash their hands off as and when they can to save their skin.
This is the story with any aftermarket third party modification. They will give you standard Australian or NZ warranty and try to find every reason under the fine print to save their skin when things do not go their way.
I am still trying to learn and understand 4WD’s, Off roading, Touring, and aftermarket modifications.
I will also suggest viewing vlogs from Ronny Dahl, Auto Expert John Cadogan and Tyler Thompson.
Unless and until you are sponsored or have lots of money to spare, I would strongly suggest caution and a safe approach. Of course, your ship your command.
I agree with you, my concern is with everyone passing responsibility to everyone else, as consumers we are stuck guessing or playing it over cautious, and still risk getting it wrong. I've watched all those you've mentioned, and am a big fan of @RonnyDahl, worth looking at #firetofork, Harry has a lot of weight on his prado VX roof (he's good mates with Ronny too).
@@10tenadventures When manufacturers discuss a roof capacity limit, it is a maximum weight on the roof to maintain dynamic stability. Exceed it at your peril. Suzuki advise a maximum roof load of 40 kg for the new Jimny. I have seen roofracks advertised for the Jimny that exceed that weight. The manufacturers of roof racks really couldn’t care less if their product is in effect a useless and expensive ornament for people seeking to operate within the design limits of their vehicle. At the end of the day it is caveat emptor. A good example of the cynicism of the 4wd aftermarket industry is the marketing of GVM upgrades. These are complete crap and just further encourage people to further overload their vehicles. If the simple mods of a GVM upgrade actually worked to safely increase a vehicles load capacity, the car manufacturers would already have done it. If I am travelling over rough roads I want my vehicle as lightly loaded as possible to ensure I dont break anything. Or I would hire a vehicle so I don’t wreck my own car over a crappy corrugated road like the Gibb, or the Great Central Roads as two examples.
Agree on the dynamic stability, that's the entire reason I want to know what it is, but toyota won't give a direct answer... a simple do not exceed xxkgs would be great, but they won't answer that (they wouldn't even tell me the static load maximum!!!) They only refer to genuine accessory limits, not what the car can be safely loaded with without damaging the roof, stability, or even something as simple as not setting off the curtain airbags... they had that info in my 2018 fortuner manual (100kgs load capacity) and in my 2012 hilux manual (same 100kg max weight), and also the static loads, not the 2021 Prado.... as for the 80kgs people suggest, one of the sales reps said "oh, we dont state it, its up to the roofrack manufacturer, but 150kgs should be fine"... either no internal communication on the matter, misinformed rep, or thats what they believe... out of curiosity I went iver to the US lexus website and looked at the 460 (Prado chassis with a beefier engine) their site stated in pounds, once converted its 138kgs dynamic load rated, so just confuses the issue more... as for GVM, we'll have to agree to disagree there mate, I have one on the Prado as with all the wagon range Toyota's (200s 150s, Fortuners etc.) Once you have a bullbar and winch on them, you're at or over front axle limit, and forget about towing anything if you have a family of 5 on board (especially if you have teenage kids) Cheers for the comment, hope you enjoy the vids
With the backbone system, one needs to access through the inner roof liner for inserting the bolts. Does the maintenance include checking the tightness of these bolts on regular intervals? If so then is it an issue to access the bolts through the inner roof liner during regular interval checks? I hope I am getting my question right.
I don't believe so, the bolts are inserted from the top into the existing bolt holes for the oem rails. GX may be different as no oem rails, but from the assembly instructions Roof Rack Superstore gave me, it's all external work, no need to access internal lining
@@10tenadventures thank you.
So basically EVERY root top tent is illegal when you mount it and sleep in it
Not when you sleep in it, static load is theoretically the weight of the vehicle (should be able to be upside-down without collapsing the roof) its the dynamic load that's the issue... and yeah, 35kg rack and 55kg tent, and you're at capacity... except they won't tell you what the actual maximum is except for "toyota genuine" accessories... it's a bloody pain
The owner's manual lists roof capacity of the current 150 as 80kg so I don't understand why Toyota will not quote their own book.
The 80kgs refers to the genuine roofrack, not the roof itself, they also do not provide a static weight limit. That is the whole point of this video, they will only tell you what the accessories are rated for. You can't get a safe limit for an aftermarket roofrack that might be rated to 150kgs with a disclaimer of not to exceed the vehicle manufacturer roof maximum. Toyota Australia themselves (not the dealer) told me they will only rate genuine accessories and their genuine accessory is rated to 80kgs... go over that and the rack itself will fail, not the roof
Thanks for the vid and information. On behalf of Toyota and Rhino, that’s pathetic. Typical of todays lack of information and protection of one’s arse.
Cheers mate. 🍺
To be fair to Rhino, they do do a lot right, the calculator is a great tool... IF you know your roof limit
Rise the complaint o accc and get it sorted easy?
Wish it was that easy, toyota has the ability to state they only test and warrant on toyota genuine accessories. It is up to 3rd party manufacturers to provide their own specifications. Unfortunately that leaves all of us wondering what the rack can legally carry... e.g. wedgetail state their rack can carry 150kgs (including weight of the rack), but big asterisk on the 150kgs of do not exceed the roof capacity of the vehicle.... the figure Toyota won't provide except where their own genuine accessories are used...
@@10tenadventures that why we need more complaint to ACCC so manufactory need provide extra support for third party accessory or they must provide what we need. Second option is stop buying from toyota(this option more powerful and need big group of toyota owner stay in our side). Sick of 150kg load which still useless for rooftop tent. I hope more people like you create the video and ask for group of owner to push toyota stop make mesh and ruin our style.
People put rack systems on with a tent, and sleep a couple of people up there with bedding and accessories. Up around 200kgs. I’d not be keen to do that.
Static load, should be fine, technically while stationary the vehicle should be able to support its own weight on the roof. Now dynamic load, the weight of the tent, awning, and all the other accessories people put up there, will absolutely exceed the 80kgs that Toyota claim is maximum for the factory rails... I wouldn't want to drive around with that either
It should be the responsibility of the manufacturers of the aftermartket accessories to develop their add on products within manufacturer spesifications and understand the limits and tolerances through scientific R&D and be able to advise the owners accordingly. They or the owners of the vehicle cannot expect to laden a vehicle with overlanding accessories (tyres, rims, suspensions, bull bars, drawer systems, additional spare wheels, fridges, roof racks, rooftop tents, additional fuel tanks, etc, etc, etc,) and expect it still to be within manufacturer tolerances or expect the manufacturer to start disecting spesifications for roof carrying capacity when every other tolerance may have also been exceeded or altered.
Come on guys you have been duped into spending small fortunes on vehicles that were never designed or marketed to be fully fledged overlanding vehicles. It is like adding all those weighty offroad accessories and still expecting it to have the same carrying capacity that it had when it was standard. Sure, it looks great but that is about it! It is unsafe and has zero legal carrying capacity left.
Rhino have changed their website to remove the notification that capacity is reduced by 1/3rd the moment you go off-road.
Other brands (tracklander for eg), don’t carry that warning so essentially you don’t lose 1/3rd capacity the moment you turn off the bitumen onto a gravel road.
I’d suggest you go back and re-watch Ronny Dahl & Tyler Thompson’s videos on their issues with Rhino rack.
Word must have spread because every man & his dog is selling Rhino racks on Facebook market place as direct result of the bad publicity.
You also don’t cover the difference between static (stationary / parked) roof load & dynamic roof load (ie while moving).
The roof of the Prado is engineered to support the full weight of the vehicle in a roll over situation, without the support pillars collapsing, in order to protect the occupants.
So “static” load the roof can support the approx 2+ tonnes of the vehicle GVM which is why you can put a roof top tent up there and sleep on top while stationary / parked.
But you can’t exceed the manufacturers dynamic roof load limits in order to not interfere with stability and cause a engineering fail in the “moose test” engineered swerve situation.
According to the pundits that’s 100kgs for the Prado.
But alterations to suspension (ie suspension lift is larger roll moment due to raised centre of gravity) means that you can’t then go by the manufacturers max dynamic roof load because it can alter due to aftermarket alterations like suspension lifts.
This CAN be compensated for somewhat with heavier (stiffer) sway bars front & rear to try and counter act the larger roll moment - however, you can’t change the laws of physics.
Higher C.O.G - equals larger roll moment (decreased stability) in the dynamic loading swerve test situation.
Most suspension lifts and GVM upgrades don’t seem to provide stiffer / heavier stabiliser bars - because these then reduce suspension flex.
How do you expect Toyota to provide these dynamic stability figures for roof loading when they have no control over what you bolt on or put inside your vehicle or where you put it?
The KAON rear shelf allows you to move a lot of potential weight up near roof height - again altering potential dynamic stability, twin battery systems, fridges, drawers, 270 awnings, the weight that gets stuck onto and into “factory standard” vehicles, (tow bars & bill bars for eg) often when delivered new with the vehicle by your Toyota dealer because you ordered it new that way equipped means that the figures would be different for basically every vehicle they sell.
This is one of those “how long is a piece of string” type questions, that you can’t blame Toyota for trying to avoid answering.
Just recently Ford ran into issues with their advertising for Ranger vehicles depicting a factory delivered vehicle with roof rack that was clearly overloaded, based on their dynamic roof load figures and they ended up being done for “false advertising” by the ACCC and had to pay $2k back to every Ranger buyer because they were misled by the company advertising.
The more people like Dahl, Thompson & now yourself berate manufacturers about pedantic issues like this, it will end up that you can’t even put a sticker on your window because your warranty will be voided. 🙄
It’s got to the point of being bloody ridiculous.
You could spend serious coin doing GVM upgrades to carry more payload and get all the numbers perfect only to find out that if weighed over the scales by the heavy haulage transport inspectors (mermaids) that your still exceeding one of the individual axel load limits.
Suddenly every off roader with a TH-cam channel wants to be a backyard automotive engineer. 🙄
You have to download the “fitting instructions” pdf off their website. The 1/3 off road weight reduction is mentioned in there according to John Cadogans Auto expert “don’t buy a rhino rack” video.
Not on the prado kit, it doesn't lose anything offroad, other rhino kits do, depending on how they attach to the vehicle. It's one if the things I looked at carefully before choosing it
@@10tenadventures
Only going by what’s shown on this video - he shows the reduction details document from the Installation Instructions PDF downloaded off the Rhino website.
th-cam.com/video/V9w7xczHN6k/w-d-xo.html
I’m in the situation of needing to buy a rack for my 2020 VX Prado so have also been researching this to death because I’m a little particular (OK pedantic is probably a fitting description 😜😂) about what I fit to my vehicle.
All ARB products are off the list, not a fan these days.
At this point Tracklander or Rola Titan are the two it’s come down to, trying to decide which one at the moment.
This is my Prado build video thus far if it’s any interest.
th-cam.com/video/Q-qq5C1H9HA/w-d-xo.html
I'll check out your build tonight mate, Always keen to see another prado fit out!
Just went over the install instructions that roofrack superstore gave me after fitting the rack, no mention of offroad limits in it for the prado set up. Hit me up on the Facebook page, happy to share pics of the physical guide, it may be Rhino modified the rack, mine is literally 4 weeks old. The way RRSS and TJM explained it to me is it is the way the backbone system attaches to wagons vs Utes is where the issues start. We looked at rola and wedgetail as options, but, right or wrong, went with Rhino. I will say that Ronny and others had me looking at everything but Rhino to begin with, but have since had multiple installers, and the Rhino website itself put me at ease with the decision. So far very happy, the rack is quiet, and I'm not putting tents or any very heavy loads on there regardless. End of the day, Rhino took a beating over the offroad rating, and have seemingly modified both website and product to mitigate where possible. As for what we put on our cars, 4x4s would be very boring if we all did the same thing 😀
I'll let you know what I like with your build !
@@10tenadventures No worries. I will check out your Facebook page for sure. Always happy to learn from others experience before shelling out the hard earned on any product.
Your also welcome to check out my Sandgroper Prados Facebook page if you feel like it, it’s only new & for us here in the west. 👍
selling off road cars and don't know the load capacity.... Ridicules
It is ridiculous, I agree, the issue isn't so much they don't know, it's that they will only provide a weight their genuine accessories are rated for. They won't tell you what the rating is for aftermarket accessories. It's bloody frustrating, all in the name of blame dodging if something goes wrong.
The answer is the capacity when you are doing what ? Driving on an incline vs onroad would be very different , the real answer is 80kg but you dont want to hear that so i suggest you go buy a nissan , good luck .
Not according to Toyota it isnt, their words and I quote "our genuine rooftop luggage carrier accessory has been safely tested to 80kgs not including the weight of the carrier. Any aftermatket roof rack or platform, toyota assumes the rack has been designed to fit the vehicle, and any engineering specifications, load limits etc. are per the manufacturer of the accessory"
@@10tenadventures that's the official line , how do I know ? Because I used to be the one writing them. I gave you the real answer.
I came here for answers, got none. TD.
I know the feeling Bill, that's the problem Toyota's official answer is... get stuffed basically... if it helps, the lexus gx470 (prado chassis with a v6 petrol engine) in the us has a roof capacity of 300lbs or roughly 136kgs, that's the best answer I have unfortunately... but ring toyota Australia and pressure them for an answer, you'll get nowhere, but maybe if enough of us do it, something might happen
@@10tenadventures Good reply. Props. Maybe we could call that USA evidence if there was an insurance issue. FFS Toyota do need to come clean. Ranger, now that's carrying on a bit but I get ya.
Rangers and Everests ... gotta have a giggle right? Thanks for watching anyway, sorry I didn't have the full answers... I have to avoid giving misinformation obviously. Unofficially the word I hear is 150kgs should be OK if that's the racks rated limit (see wedgetail as an example, they still have the "manufacturer roof limit pending" clause) but that's from a Toyota service centre worker, and in no way official response, more of a "she'll be right mate" answer....
Rhino Rack is the problem.. I hope they go bankrupt.
How so? They've been more helpful than toyota and provide a handy calculator to ensure you know the rack weight and payload... Toyota just say "nope, not telling you" we looked at multiple racks from rhino, wedgetail, Offroad Animal, frontier, they all have the same issue "our racks can carry X kgs, but check with the vehicle manufacturer to ensure you don't exceed the load capacity of your vehicles roof...
@@10tenadventures Rhino rack are basically not suitable for any offroad use. They are the only manufacture that de-rates their platform "offroad" On a prado, when offroad, you might be lucky to carry 20kgs. Look at all the other brands as you mentioned..
Not true, no loss of load capacity off road using the backbone rails. This is very clearly stated on their website using the load calculator. Load rating loss I based on the support struts to the vehicle, and how they are secured. Wedgetail, for example, uses the same backbone system as Rhino, and, just like Rhino, does not lose load capacity off road. The issue you are bagging out primarily affects rear canopy mounts and clip on style struts. I did a lot of research before putting a Rhino platform on my car, and have no concerns at all with it 😀 I can understand people being brand hesitant, especially if they've had the same issue as Ronni Dahl etc. But what you are stating is not accurate for the setup I used (recommended set up for the platform)
@@10tenadventures I don't think you understand the actual Rhino issue very well. You seem to have a totally different understanding to everyone else. Yes, Rhino may have recently updated their website and offroad ratings on their website, likely due to public outrage.
Ok, let's take Rhino out of the equation for a moment and look at the actual point of the video. Sure wedgetail warrant their rack for 150kgs, provided "this is inside the vehicle manufacturers specifications and load rating" a rating that TOYOTA AUSTRALIA will NOT provide. That is the whole point of this, spend $87k on a new Toyota and not be able to get a weight rating for your roof that ALL roof rack manufacturers state you must be within to ensure your warranty... not to mention safety concerns with inadvertently exceeding the structural integrity of the vehicle