One More Level - The Arbitrary Endpoint Trap - Extra Credits
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
- When we stay up later than we wanted just to hit a progress point in our games, we have fallen into the arbitrary endpoint trap. Some games deliberately manipulate us to do one more level, but many times we're doing it to ourselves and making playtime a chore.
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It's sort of amusing how I was about to head off to bed, then saw this in my feed and said: "Well, just one more video"
More of my nights than I care to admit have gone that way! - Steve
exactly me its 12:40 pm
@@AnimeErudite 2:20 pm
Do you guys mean am?
i fell asleep once doing that, just randomly
you can't stop yet, you're not doooooone...
the best moment in this vid :D
3:35
reminds me of charlie the unicorn.
I mean what the🐍
One more extra credits video... One more..
I was gonna comment that, and then I scrolled down to do so and saw this.
Don't we all?
I've almooost finished an extra credits season. Just 3 more videos.
Did that 'til 4 or 5AM on more than one occasion with the history videos.
United Federation of the Labor Party rama They are great, but they just cover a different subject
I personally love both, but we all have our preferences, don't we?
Wow square was smart when they made a quicksave function in their games.
That Devanescence poster is fantastic. I want one.
Poster? No no no, I need to be wearing that on a shirt.
Yes please! EC plz
SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!
Can confirn its a dank meme
I find some of the games I enjoy the most weave these in in a really cool way. They create this feedback loop where I tell myself "I just need to sort this thing out" and then in the course of doing that, something new shows up that spikes up the engagement again. Civilization is the classic example, but there are many others. Like Rimworld, where everything seems like it's going smoothly, and then just before you're comfortable, a raid shows up, severely damages your colony, and makes you have to put the pieces back together.
Sid Meier's Civilization is the worst case of just one more turn. That gaming franchise has robbed me of so much sleep but that's kinda why I love it bc ik I'll be able to sit down for hours on end and play this game.
Brickhill302 Bruh, I slept at five AM because of that game, it's freaking evil.
That's me in hoi4 as well
If you hate your life and just want time to go fast
It’s become their marketing slogan lmao
I learned this when I was about 4 years old, in nursery school.
I attended mornings as it was a half day thing. One morning I liked it so much that I asked if I could go back in the afternoon. The teacher was surprised but said it was fine.
I went that afternoon and found out that what I expected wasn't what I got as I had an expectation that the same children would be there to play with again along with the same toys etc.
It was the things in the morning that I went for. What I experienced was the same effect of "No, you can't stop yet, you're not done".
Lesson learned.
4:05
RIP random sniper 2017-2017
G'day mate! AHHH PISS IT'S A BLOODY SPY!
he did have a red dot on his head so mabe not
May he rest in peace
@@fritzkrieg7206 He also had a dead ringer, so I presume he got sniped then dead ringered behind the sniper
RIP
Whoever random sniper shot(he was making a "g'day mate!")
2017-2017
It's called dopamine hit traps. That extremely addictive hormone that we produce to reward the finishing of goals like getting to that apple tree we spotted in the distance, finding a source of water, and other previously important survival tasks that we have trivialized as a modern society. It is what causes the crossing off chores from a to do list feel good and by extension making said chores actually feel better in retrospect. Most of these f2p mobile games have come to realize that having a list of daily tasks/quests or have an arbitrary energy system that feels like it has too be used in full constantly to keep up will feed a dopamine addiction. Predatory developers that fully prey on the addictive qualities of it are the ones that spatter all those progress meters all over the place.
Eric Wolf -- that's true for reward systems.
This is just habitual behavior because of our natural tendency to "finish" things. Completion's sake is a long long instinctual result from having goals that aren't needed. And its much more of psychology, than biology.
It's less finish, and more so "get". Humans need to get items and get places and get people to survive so it's getting, there isn't anything logically to ,complete'. In the wild we would just want the thing if we see it and take it, it's the same for these games. They dangle the level up reward and you grab for it instinctually.
You described serotonin which is released when we COMPLETE a goal and results in a feeling of satisfaction and calm at having completed said goal. Dopamine on the other hand is released as we move TOWARDS a goal without necessarily completing it and the release of dopamine produces a pleasurable sense of joy, excitement and motivation to continue. Low levels of Dopamine and/or Dopamine desensitization is associated with a low mood, lack of motivation, depression and in the extreme cases is a sign of the onset of Parkinson's disease.
Both Dopamine and Serotonin play a pivotal role in the establishment and reinforcement of neural-pathways however they have different effects, Serotonin stops us and makes us feel calm and satisfied when we complete a goal. Dopamine motivates us and keeps us moving forward and in high doses makes us irritable and restless.
To use your examples, Dopamine motivates us to search for that apple tree or water source and to move toward it, serotonin simultaneously tells us to relax and stop AFTER we've drunk or eaten from said apple tree or water source and also reinforces the neural-pathways and behaviors that were recently active leading up to eating or drinking.
Except there is no serotonin release afterwards unless you get a shiny piece of loot that actually matters for at least a little while which is almost never the case with such arbitrary endpoints because there is rarely anything tangible to say we did something other than the level going up which is akin to checking off a thing from the to do list off but not the entire to do list, just one piece of it. Going back to the old examples, you generally won't get the big seratonin hit until after you finish all of those survival tasks you need to do keep on going another day nor are you completing a task for your group, as serotonin is a more socially orientated hormone. With these arbitrary endpoints being more self serving meaning that is purely driven by dopamine towards the finishing of it and results in all those negative feelings that typically come afterwards that EC noted in the video because we didn't do acquire anything of note to trip a serotonin hit. As we almost certainly didn't do anything of note from a communal perspective like finish that hard boss fight with your guild or group of friends. That said perhaps vanilla wow was actually onto something when they made the leveling experience so difficult and a party driven because that way we were forced into a communal environment to naturally trigger serotonin as we did things as apposed to the more empty calorie serotonin hits that come from acquiring that "shiny loot" that might not even matter for all that long.
Edit: P.S. If done incorrectly those endless tracking bars to multiple achievements would essentially be a never ending to do list that you will in theory will never be able to complete and therefor never really get a serotinin hit needed to put the game down because you felt like you did something.
I think if done right a game can be played for enjoyment and goals at the same time. I'm posting this from work coming in at 7 am while I went to sleep at 3 am. Stardew Valley had me up all night. While I wanted to level up my fishing, I was also having a blast doing so. I am a little tired today but don't regret it in the least. Worth it 🎃👍🏻
Very good analysis as usual. Thank you!
Btw, what you call "Arbitrary Endpoint" is what psychology calls _closing a "gestalt"_ (which is the German word for "form" or "figure") and yes, you do not have to be an OCD personality to fall victim to this, which is why it is important to design anything from games to lesson plans in a way that enables this much-needed closure in the end.
I would argue that this phenomena is not just used in games, but in multiple social media apps as well. Creating a post that gets a response from someone or responding to a notification on your phone ticks the same mental box.
It's also why the Song of Ice and Fire is such a good book series. Fairly short chapters make for "just one more chapter" leading to a binge that can last for hours.
This is why I appreciate features like Rest Mode on PS4, and Sleep Mode on 3DS. They make it easy to set down the game for the night and not unsatisfied about it.
I'll be honest, I realize this is a *really* petty reason, but part of the reason why I try to go for "one more level" is because otherwise I have to find a save point, turn the game off, boot it up the next day, load the save file, and then try to remember where I last left off. Being able to jump right back in with little to no hassle makes it easier to quit when I'm just sick of playing rather than feeling obligated to reach the next arbitrary checkpoint.
I tend to view it as that beginning proccess as being that time to help you recollect. Part of why playing an old NES game on emluator might not be that appealing if you use save states to save your progress.
I agree, this works great. Save states on emulators, I similarly love.
I've quit many MMOs because I found myself just getting distracted by these chores instead of the experience that made me interested in the game.
1:07 Stupid Silly Snek. *I see you* Get outta here! I'm trying to learn something!
Fate Epsylon Is that a recurring thing in these videos? This is the first time I've noticed something like that, and it's bugging me.
Ah hecc, a snecc
Hmmm maybe I should quit this video ...... nah Video is almost finished
I think it serves a mention that sometimes, things like this can serve to relax and to help one unwind. For example, I have terrible insomnia. Despite medication, some nights, I still just find it hard to get to sleep, so, knowing this, I will start a gaming session when I get home maybe like an hour before bed to help me relax and I will make it a point to do something super relaxing like pushing myself to do daily challenges or get another fishing level or something right before bed, which, by design, is super boring. I turn it into a sleep aid that helps me get a good nights sleep because it is something I can do without really engaging my brain all that much. Yes, most of these traps KEEP you awake, but some of these arbitrary goals you set can also help to relax your mind and get you away from the game too. Just a neat concept. :)
Dat brain voice is gold.
@3:35 That voice. I will never be able to unhear the voice.
I think I'm basically immune to this. I have trouble getting myself to do stuff even when I have a legitimate goal to accomplish that'd be better to do now than later. It's also why I don't really like games like Animal Crossing or Minecraft since my own arbitrary goals are no good and the few in-game goals aren't much better.
No, when I ended up playing a game for far longer than I should, it's always because I'm having way too much fun and don't want to stop.
Zelenal I thoughed the same about myself, but then I realized it's because I'm not 75 to 99% away from finishing, but just starting with a long way to go. That scares me off.
Zelenal
I think I've basically deadened myself to it somewhat because I've done so many attempted Nuzlockes of GSC/HgSS, which, if you've ever played, you know the level curve there, and the grind, is utterly merciless
I feel the exact same way. It's why I was never able to grind myself up to high level in Pokemon Go. I like some aspects of the game really well, and so I play that when I have time, mostly catching and raiding. But trying to coordinate events with lucky egg exp boosts to catch 1000 pidgeys, evolve them for exp over and over to reach some arbitrary level, just bores me.
Also the reason why I almost never finish any game at all - kinda sucks because I'll never see the end of a game but it prevents me from wasting too much time on 'useless' ingame tasks ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Zelenal I'm too arbitrary for arbitrary goals, I'll make goals I won't meet until another arbitrary goal makes me do it along the way. So I often have to shoot way ahead of what I actually need or want to actually get my actual original arbitrary goal. Like, I beat the minecraft dragon with half a mansion, 2/3rds of a storage system, and a farm that was WAY too big
I believe the French have a name for it; L'appel du vide, meaning the call of the void, it's thoughts or rather a feeling that encourages you to make self sabotaging actions, eg. You're standing on the edge of a building and you mind thinks "what would it feel like to jump off". It can have less extreme iterations like not wanting to get out of bed or just finishing one more level
I find it fittingly ironic that I'm watching this at the end of a youtube binge that went on for 30 minutes too long because 'gotta watch all of today's videos'
Great work as always, good night now.
2:08
RIP random Pharah 2017-2017
you forgot the most important one of all. I'll go to bed after i capture 1 more province!!!
I love this channel! It brings insightful thinking to gaming. This is not an easy task. However, they do this difficult task in a way that not only informative but also entertaining. (another almost impossible task)
Minecraft and Factorio......two games that do this AMAZINGLY. Its late, your tiered, you need to go to bed, but your building that one last section of your base, and you dont want to turn it off till its done....4 hours later...your still up!
Edit: Space Engineers does this too.....oh does it ever do this.
Sometimes I feel like getting to an end point is reeaaally satisfying, even more so than the mid-gameplay
I close my game when I start to do bad, not because I rage quit, but because it can kinda ruin the experience and tire you out.
You are doing a wonderful service to all of the gaming community. Keep it up :D
Yes, I use to be exactly like that guy who eat everything on his plate. I felt like I was being was wasteful or rude when I didn't eat everything. Now, I've learned that no one cares and that stuffing myself is not good for my health. It still happens sometimes, but I've become a lot better at noticing it.
I am scaroused by Dans brain voice
I would argue that the Overwatch loot box isn't quite a perfect example of a goal that you can return to the next day, at least during special events where the loot boxes have items that are only available for a limited time during that event. If you want that Witch Mercy skin, you're going to have to earn those boxes during the Halloween event, or you're waiting until next year.
This describes my browsing habit, just one more tab, just one more, and at the end of the day I have 100 new tabs in addition to my already hundrets of open tabs.
I've found that it's a lot more enjoyable to wait and save your next advancement point for the beginning of your next play session.
Since achieving a goal improves your mood why not wait until it's going to actually improve your mood at a time when it can improve an entire day rather than a few minutes before you fall asleep?
Seriously, ALWAYS save your level advancement for the next day if you are in a situation where you kinda want to stop anyway.
Ever heard of satisfaction? I'd rather be tired but satisfied then urging for more but getting my sleep. It always feels good to get a level, no matter what time of day it is.
Hey Dan, the psychological principle you were looking for is called The Zeigarnik Effect
I'm genuinely curious here, Why would someone dislike this video? Maybe a person thinks that if they dislike the arbitrary traps we fall in to that they should agree by disliking the video?
Question:
How evil will it be for one to make a fake checkpoint/save point in a game?
"Even FROM Software thinks that's a bit too mean" level. As I recall, they talked about it when a fan came up with a design for a Bonfire Mimic.
mrunderhill89,
So yes, do it.
I'm working on a "destiny" style offline open world game with sleep mechanics save system.
4 out of the 82 rest stops in the world will not save.
But dont worry, all the trolling will come at the end of the game when the player has invested a lot of time and passion into it.
I wouldn't consider that good design. The feedback for using a fake checkpoint should be obvious and immediate (like insta-killing the player), otherwise you'll get a lot of angry players mistaking it for a bug.
mrunderhill89,
Don't worry, I'll make sure that the fake checkpoint looks very intentional so it wouldn't be confused as a bug.
As for game design, this is going to be a very unconventional game. Many players will have difficulty adjusting to the abnormal conditions, so I'll grant the player with a safe space to retain their hard earn progression and left unmolested.
But outside of that space, all bets are off and the master director will not play fair.
If saying it is one: Top level evilMaking it look like one: Alright, I guess? Sort of.Both will hurt more depending on how many time is between the points.
Whenever reading a book, I always feel like I need to get to some kind of milestone in the story. Like I'll start reading and make not of when the next chapter or section starts and I'll read up to there. Very rarely while I stop reading a book in the middle of a chapter. I'm not why this is, maybe I'm afraid of loosing my place on the page, maybe I don't want to breakup my experiencing whatever even was happening in that chapter. I don't know. It's the same for movies and TV shows, if I watch a movie or an episode of a TV show, I need to watch it in one sitting. I almost never will pause a movie in the middle and start watching it again later or the next day. Worse still, I and fully aware of this, and even if It's midnight, and I'm tired, and need to work in the morning, I know that if I stop watching it now, I'm never going to finish it, and more often then not, if I do go back I'll just restart it from the beginning.
Edit: Come to think of it, this may be the reason why I've been reluctant to start up any games lately. I'm subconsciously worried that I won't have good endpoints for me to stop playing and do something else. I also worry that if I stop at a certain point, and come back after a long while that I won't be able to get back in and end up starting the game over (which I have done).
I've done this at work more often than not. I stay late because I don't want to leave a nearly completed task unfinished. Doesn't happen too often and I have the flexibility to go home early another day to make up for it, but it's a noticeable habit.
This was my Guild wars 2 experience, when at 6am i hit level 80 for the first time, i was tired and nearly crying about being so sleepy
That opening was truly terrifying.
-Rex
Tf2 omg yes! The hype is real for the jungle update it's so close! At 4:03
Pretty much why I grinded up to level 99 in Bravely Default in one giant 12-hour sitting. Always a 75% filled bar. Always always always
James and dev friends × Evanescence. Whoever drew that, I love you. I need that on a shirt ASAP lmao
Hey Joe Rogan, y'all got any more of them levels?
There's a new hot yoga level
That reminds me of the experiment they once had where they concluded that when there's a bowl with unlimited soup (automatic refills from the bottom), people eat less then if they're given limited bowl of soup with infinite refills.
Because people are more likely to finish their bowl, but if the bowl is unlimited, people don't feel the need to finish it.
My friend went through this with final fantasy 14 online the other week and left the game because of it. It wasn't fun anymore to him so now he's back on Warframe, which has the same arbituary end points.
I saw, "If those games have multiple progress bars so that you're always 75% of the way towards completing SOMETHING", I went, "Oh crap, that game sounds super fun!" xD I... Don't know what this means. I can't think of any games like that which I currently play, and FYI, I'm a PC gamer who has only ever really gotten into playing three of four mobile games in my life.
Ayy lmao
I don't know; it just feels satisfying to me to reach those arbitrary endponts.
Some games have features where characters get a 'well rested' boost to exp and etc. after having been offline for some time. I wonder if giving an extra bonus to players who level up while 'well rested' might be a good idea.
I think plain ol' procrastination is a factor, too, especially for late-night sessions. We may claim we need to "finish something," but really we don't want tomorrow to start, or we don't want to study, fix dinner, get dressed and go out. In these cases, arbitrary goals are the lies we tell ourselves to justify procrastination. "I'm not doing nothing. I'm doing something!"
I've thought about this a lot lately because I've gotten into a bad habit of staying up late browsing the internet for no damn reason. I'll look at the clock, see it's late, and think to myself "Certainly there's something else I can read or watch." I know, though, that I really don't want the day to end. I want that moment between work and waking up for another day of work to last forever.
I stay up all night because there's always oooonnnnneeee more ep of extra credits to watch :)
This was sort of glossed over by the video, but I wanted to state it explicitly: If you're playing just to finish that one last loot box, but you're still having fun, that's fine. More than once I've decided, "Eh, I'll get to the next level, then head off for the night", and enjoyed every minute. To use a specific, recent example, I was playing Planetside 2 last night, and I decided to stay fifteen minutes later than I normally would have, so I could finish out an alert and get a neat bonus. Of course, I was also continuing because I just like the game, and the battles towards the end of an alert are incredibly hectic and tons of fun.
The problem is when you start playing solely for the arbitrary endpoint.
3:36 That voice was AMAZING XD
Just... one.. more... video..!
You have just saved me from playing another (potentially) failed game of League, for that I thank you 🙏.
That lootbox...
*Cries in Halloween Terror sprays*
That was my indicator of when I should stop playing whatever MMORPG I was currently in; if all I was doing was trying to finish "task x", I would log off.
"Sometimes we just make the goal up" Minecraft is a perfect example. The game literally tells you nothing, and you spend hours reaching arbitrary checkpoints that you yourself create.
That's really interesting. This mechanism of needing closure or a point of pause seems to be very primitive. It's what drives the pomodoro method for procrastination, what keeps us inert from starting big projects, what keeps our Sisyphean existence rolling. I really wonder if there is proper psychological studies on this phenomenon. doing research brb.
I guess I will watch this latest Extra Credits video just before I go to bed.
Clash royal 2019: 50 cups till next reward
Me: hmmmm 30 cups if I win soo just 2 wins
Me also: wait this is true for every tear
I can't recall treating character levels as a self-imposed endpoint. At least in games I played, going up a level usually didn't result in anything too interesting happening. I suppose I'd try to finish a quest, or some other task, because if I waited until the next play session, I'd have to remember exactly what I was doing before.
Remember the time when Guild Wars reminded you to take a break after 5 hours or so and to stop after 9 or something?
After watching this, I'm really pumped for making a game that features this, even though I know it shouldn't...
Remember Civ Motto:
"Wait! Just another turn!"
And that ending but is exactly what happened to me with Animal Crossing: New Leaf. Just got to the point where playing felt like a chore...
My psych prof once said that "time distortion" can be a side effect of heavy tech use, which I think comes up here.
I was playing Grim Dawn last night and my cabalist was one level from the 3 skill points necessary to hit 50 on the necro sub and get the first point in Harbinger of Souls (which is an exclusive toggle skill that gives massive bonuses). So...not only did I extend it out so that I could get that one level...but I also had to try the new skill. Cut to an hour later, and I'd nearly gained another level. I had to quit when I realized it.
Mayora's Mask keep you playing just for not play the song of time even when you can save the game in the statues
Like so many others here, of COURSE I decide to turn on the video when I have "just one more" thing to do in a game. Though to be fair, mining crystal in Ark to build a greenhouse is an arbitrary endpoint of my own creation.
That's my issue with XCOM: there are no end points. There's always the next research, the next supply drop, the next mission just ahead in a few days that it never feels satisfying to quit. Now a lot of people speak about this in high praise. "It's so addicting, you always want to play for just one more turn/mission". But I think it's time to realize that calling a game addicting in most cases isn't a positive.
Then how come I can't do my school work?
Jp Curtis he actually explains this indirectly. His argument is that games stop being fun when you turn them into chores. Schoolwork is already a chore though, so that's why you procrastinate. The argument is playing a game can trick your mind into making arbitrary endpoints because of how much fun you're having up until the end, and potentially soils that last bit of the experience.
That's why I appreciate a challenging game with a clear goal, For example : Monster Hunter. I often got drained after finishing quests and forced to quit the game for a while. I never have a thought about going for that "extra mile" because I know the next time I accept a quest it's going to be well 20 mins or so of pure pain in the ass, the experience that the game have provided you up until the present just let you know from the get go and prevented you for playing more.
I was browsing youtube late at night, wondering if i should go to bed or not, and I thought "Just one more video now, then i'll go to bed. I'm almost through my Watch Later playlist". So i decided to watch this video. I guess i'll stop here then. Good night :)
2:33 Procrastinators: I'll finish my task whenever I want to
Psssh, that’s ridiculous! I’d never fall for such simple tricks. *casually boots up Civ 5*
I decided to finish that coding project because of this vid
And I laugh at myself for watching this at 2:30 am with the same mindset. Night guys
I don't really experience this. If i want to finish getting a level or finish a book when it's late at night, i only do it because I'm NOT half-asleep, the game/book is keeping me alert because I'm enjoying it.
When Final Fantasy 7 was reasonably new I was about to go to the end boss, but it was really late so I decided to get some sleep before getting to the end. So that I could enjoy the ending more. Then when I woke up my memory card had randomly deleted my save file. I have still never managed to get to the end of FFVII. Because I did as this video suggests, which is good advice. But if I hadn't done it I would have finished FFVII a long time ago.
That is all I could think of through this video ^^
I really relate to games being less fun because I make a pointless goal. Not playing them cause they're fun.
I think a better name for that trap would be the milestone effect
Me at 12am : One more video
*clicks on this video*
Would you guys be willing to examine Night in the Woods as an example to tell deeply relatable interpersonal stories, and about dealing with the unknown and life's hardships? Would really like to get your guys' take on it.
This reminds me I haven't logged in today to do my game chores....
i felt that way with breath of the wild, kept exploring and when i reach what caught my attention i started exploring to the next thing until the sun rose...
I dont quit playing when I get bored, I quit playing when I hate myself
This is why I have a rule to avoid a lot of strategy, simulation, and RPG games. RPGs have sidequests and a leveling system to keep me hooked. If you leave at the wrong moment in a turn-based strategy game (particularly the 4X ones) then you may very well forget what your strategy was the last-time you checked-in, not to mention that the whole concept of "eras" are just another layer of arbitrary endpoints (I'm looking at you, Civilization). Simulation games are a broad category, but I'm looking at building-simulation games, like city builders and tycoon-likes. Project Highrise I found particularly nefarious in that there's no real definite endpoint other than, say, when a simulated day ends. Coincidentally that's also when a new influx of cash comes in. So, you know, why stop now whenever you've got all this new cash to spend on new crap for your building?
I had to really ask myself if these games were enjoyable, and I came to the conclusion that they weren't. At least for me personally. It's fun getting started, but eventually I spiral out of control and next thing I know I've wasted an entire day.
Perhaps one way to fix Project Highrise for me would be to make the game transpire in real-time, i.e. each simulated day lasts an actual day, but then the temptation to include micropayments comes into play to jump ahead to the next day, and before you know it the game is making crazy amounts of money profiting off people with gambling addictions who have never gambled before in their entire lives. Yikes.
Building an actual real-life high-rise is much harder (then again, I've never tried) but I feel like it's less likely to ruin your life than attempting to build a simulated one.
I often feel that, if I'm not chaining enough reward triggers in my brain from something, I'll become disinterested and stop endearing myself to it.
In order to keep the chain going, I achieve such arbitrary goals.
There are stakes and consequences if it's not finished in that session.
I might loose the hook the game worked so hard to get me with, and I might not even ever play the game again.
Fragmented cutoffs decided only by time are a great way to burnout on a game, or, at least, fade connection with it.
...and that's not even to mention memory,
whether it be the matter of whether or not you will remember what you were doing next time the game is picked up or the matter of encoding memories together with some degree of cohesion in order to have a clearer idea over what took place the implications of the events overall--
Stopping for external reasons can screw up one's perception of a game or what-have-you and learnings gained from it to a pretty significant degree.
I'm rambling semi-baselessly again, aren't I?
Oh well!
Watching this at 3am after a Crypt of the Necrodancer session that went on a bit too long.....😓
One more round of Space Station 13 for now... Just one more...
Not the same as this, but it's still addictive.
One more level, turn, mission, block, video, page, roll.
I go through this all the time, particularly with Stardew Valley.
Stardew Valley, while an excellent game IMO, does have the 'mandatory save point' fallacy where the game only saves at the start of each in-game day (without mods). However, even with a mod that allows me to save and load at literally any point I wish, I still run into this.
With only so many hours in each game day to do things and lots of things you can do, it's possible, even easy, to set up an elaborate MESS of these kinds of traps for yourself. "I'll quit once I've planted this new crop", or "I wanna make friends with this bachelor/ette as soon as possible because it'll rain tomorrow and I WANT that Mermaid's Pendant!" or "It's 10 PM (3 AM in the real world), but I'm sure there'll be a new gem deposit in the NEXT level of the mines!"
Now, the game DOES have a hard-line 2 AM time limit on doing everything, so you can't waste TOO much real time on each individual game day, but they do add up. Especially if you're like me and you want to get the menial farm stuff (crop-watering, harvesting, collecting from your magic reward statues) out of the way early in the day. And the limit -- on in-game daytime, and how many days there are in a month or season -- gives everything a sense of urgency, even planting crops. "I just got done harvesting this 14-day crop! Now I have to plant more TODAY or else I won't have enough of them to last the rest of the year!" (Admittedly, unlocking the greenhouse helps solve that, but that takes a whole in-game year without cheating, minimum!)
None of this is meant to rag on the game, but rather to explain how easy it is for me to fall into this trap, both as a gamer and as a designer.
I have the opposite problem, I think of end points that end up only taking like 15 minutes cause I don't want to risk spending too long on a game
I hate it when people say this, but this time I'll say it myself: this should be taught in school!
The hardest decision I have made was when I said to myself when playing GTA (ok time to save and go to sleep) i was right next to a mission