I worked onboard these trains from 1978 onward, when I started CN had transitioned to Via Rail, and watching this video I was transported back to that time period. Working the bar dome car at the tailend was fun and exciting, especially challenging when going into banks, because the automatic banking system wasn't always working. Anyway I was young so I found it very exciting to serve Via pasenger drinks in the dome. I was lucky to had the opportunity to work both the dome bar car and snack cars, working from Toronto to Montreal return was a very long day, but very rewarding.
It's interesting to see that Canadian National had a different attitude towards passenger trains compared to American RRs in 1970. It took another five years before CN finally threw in the towel.
"young and exciting". "made more so by their fashionable clothes designed with a boutique flair". Holy hell I am sold, but wait the "Turbo ensemble" I have fainted!
I rode Turbo once in 1976 between Toronto and Kingston. It broke down just outside of Kinston and we were helped by a freight unit. I agree that high speed rail between Toronto and Montreal is needed. The congestion / security at the airports pre-covid was ridiculous. The LRC wasn't comfortable. My best ride between Toronto and Montreal was in a 1940's era parlor car on 3 axel trucks. The ride was smooth as silk. I've ridden all over Europe where trains are terrific. They are fast, comfortable and clean.
We absolutely need something like this on that same corridor, if it was just as cheap or more as driving, stopped very little, and is perhaps just a little more time than the plane, it would be great!
@@clarification007 you do realize how expensive it is to electrify a section of line, its really fucking expensive its like somewhere around 1 million or something per each mile
Yes , but so many expenses , underpasses or rail guards at every crossing , for safety .I dislike buses and air travel .Please I want to travel by train .
Not sure if I mentioned in my long rant: The top speed for Montreal-Toronto was 03:59 minutes, not 3 hours. Still cut 1 hour off the Rapido trains (and 1.5 hours off current schedules under VIA). Much of the speed restrictions are due to freight traffic along the way. Back in the day of Turbo, CN still put priority on passenger trains, so they ran faster and more reliable schedules.
It's a shame that all UAC Turbotrains have been scrapped with none preserved. At least we have mini models and video games to remind us of what once was the UAC Turbotrain the speed to the future.
I love this!!! I’m so glad I found this video!!! The high speed rail in California is being built one block from my house in California! I’m so glad we are FINALLY getting highspeed rail. I had no idea that it existed in Canada when I was a child. I have taken a ride on the Shinkansen. We also went to the Shinkansen museum. It’s fantastic. I think I’m gonna go ride a train in Canada soon.
lol, california's H.S.T. will probably fail. Leave it to Amtrak and Caltrain. H.S.T.'s are only good for long distances, not like California, but from state to state. For example, from were I live in Florida to lets say Wisconsin, and from Wisconsin to Washington state.
Don't know what it is with the Turbo over any other modern train that I think is so gorgeous and cool? Futuristic trains of the 50's and 60's are neat and attractive. But to me, it all culminated with the UAC Turbo. Everything after seemed just be an imitation of it's initial design.
Tilting Trains were tried again by MLW/Bombardier with the LRC cars still commonly used. But in the 2000s VIA Rail gave up trying to keep the tilting mechanism working and just locked them in the straight position.
15:28 The Turbo Club Lounges were located at each end of the train in the power cars, raised up several steps over the turbines. The driving cab was part of this section and apparently had windows right through so passengers get the same forward view as the engineer. Note there are window panels in the roof to give views equivalent to a true dome car, but many interior and overhead shots in this film show them covered over. Perhaps they were impractical to keep clean of black soot from turbine exhaust stacks, which went right up through the lounge. You can clearly see them here 12:35 but absent here 14:00.
Makes me sick that there was a Tilting, homebuilt High Speed Train developed, tested and built less than 10 years after the Shinkansen came out. If only... if only.
Way back in the day when I was just a young fella I rode the turbo from Montreal to Toronto. I remember boarding the train and heading up to the bar dome car - before the train even left the station. Can't really say that I remember much more of the trip. I do remember being very sombre on the trip home. It was on the old Rapido. It seemed to take forever to get back. 🤣
I was very little when the Turbo ran. We'd call it the Ladybug Train, because the nose looked like a giant ladybug. The VIA livery killed our ladybug. We once rode the CN Turbo to Montreal. Such a beautiful train!
This was Canada's first attempt at High Speed rail the next attempt was with the LRC Trains both of which suffered fatal malfunctions (of these 2 The LRC lasted longer and survived to see the millennium albeit the locomotives retired and one sent to a museum while their coaches were pulled by the F40 or Genesis Locomotives) UAC TurboTrain: 1968 to 1982 14 Years (All Scrapped) LRC: 1981 to 2001 20 Years (Coaches remain in service until 2023)
A train like this needs to run at its maximum speed the entire run in order to be a success. It needs to be faster than driving or flying. Also grade separate the entire line too.
United Aircraft became United Technologies Corporation five years after this film was made. In 2020 it merged with Raytheon Company to become Raytheon Technologies Corporation.
It's pointless to have a high-speed train that has to share tracks with freight trains and commuter trains, because they slow it down. That's been Canada's problem all along.
So true, that was part of the problem with this system. They r couldn’t run this anywhere near design speed. Only a little faster than a normal train. Current new engines on this route are capable of 200kph, but likely won’t be able to do that anytime soon either. The maintenance on the Turbo likely finished it off. Apparently they weren’t too bad later in service after the retrofits. Bombardier did propose the “jet train” which has a single PW100 (dash 8) engine for high speed use without Overhead wires. Seemed like a good idea, but no one took up that one.
Turbine engines have excellent power to weight ratio, needed for planes, but are built for maximum efficiency at only one flat-out speed. Great for constant speed applications like planes, ships, stationary generators. Lousy for variable loads/speeds like trains, and very poor for the stop-and-go traffic of automobiles. Burn nearly as much fuel at idle as is full speed.
Much longer. VIA ran the Canadian UAC turbos into the 1980s, long after Amtrak gave up on theirs. Amtrak did try a second time with an order of French Ruhr Turboliners - they lasted much longer than the UAC turbos.
Ben Mcpeek also wrote the music for the IMAX film,' 'Catch the Sun' that was shown at Ontario Place in 1973. He was known more as a jingle writer than anything else, writing music for commercials.
1970-the last time passenger rail tried to be ambitious and innovative in Canada. I'm with Quebec City;s mayor marchand in calling for the TGV to Toronto but it should carry on further to Detroit and Chicago. TO and Montreal should also carry to New York.
Oh yes ,back when Montreal , was Canada's sacred city , the place to be and Canada's largest city . Montreal was the city that people talked about , not anymore . In the last 8 years ,I have met over 20 people , that have left Quebec for Ontario and shall never return .
It wasn't long after this was filmed that the great exodus began. My school as a kid in the 70s/80s had more thsn a fair share of recent transplants from Quebec.
The main exodus happened when BMO (Bank of Montreal) moved its HQ to downtown Toronto in the mid 70s, based on fears of a Quebec referendum on separation, which eventually happened in 1980. But by then, Toronto had become cemented as Canada's financial "capital" due to the same separation fears.
Engine and locomotive technology advances rapidly. Every 10 years we have something much better than what came before it. The Turbotrain was great at first, but after only 10 years it was clear that there were conventional diesel-electric locomotives that could do the job of pulling a train at high speed better than the engine in the turbotrain. They should have just hooked up that high-speed diesel to the front of the turbotrain and let it do the job of pulling the entire train around. The turbotrain would have been used in that manner for another 20 years with no problems.
I wish that they didn't scrap the whole trainsets, instead of scrapping them, they should remove the jet turbine engine out of these trainset and make them all electric and have it run with overhead Catenary line like they did with the Early TGV, and maybe the UAC would go faster.
Actually 4 gas turbines for drive and 1 for aux power (lighting/heat). Wiki shows designed for 2 to 6 drive engines at 400hp each. As built seem to be 4 drive engines. Low rolling resistance is the big bonus with rail, the aluminum car don’t hurt. Large railway freight locomotives are about 3000hp for older ones and up to 6300HP ea. and they are hauling 2 km of freight. With only a handful of engines. Very efficient yet old tech.
Using a turbine wasn´t really the best option. Besides mechanical problems. Fuelconsumpsion was not optimal. There was quite a lot of turbine trains in the late 60-tys. Most of them was scrapped very quickly in the oil crisis. The turbotrain was really the only one that survived the oil crisis. But the fuel was still quite expensive even after the crisis.
Like others have said fuel costs after the 73 oil crisis rendered turbines an expensive oddity, especially on a corridor where they never 95 mph (turbine trains become somewhat more efficient once you pass the 125 mph barrier). Plus, this was a practically unique train. The only other buyer was Penn Central/the US DOT and they scraped their in the mid-70s so by the 80s I doubt there were many spare parts on hand to keep them in service.
It was never on a dedicated high speed rail line so it always had to deal with slower freight trains and level crossings so it never reached it's true potential.
15:13 Oh, delicious microwave hamburgers. 15:42 “….hostesses: young, and exciting, made more so by their fashionable clothes.” Jesus Christ, could you objectify your staff a little more? Just the women, obviously - for the benefit of the business-class fellas.
Interesting, but what a waste of film spending so much of it focused on weaving the fabrics and outfitting the train staff, rather than extensively profiling and touring the trains themselves outside and in. No aisle shots showing the overall arrangement of seats and cabins in either Turbo Coach or Turbo Club, the passenger-accessible passage to the inter-train gangways, or the driver’s cabs. Even though the film’s director and production crew were credentialled, I would have told them to do the project over again, focusing more on the finished trainsets, or fired and replaced them.
I think the video was a product of the times. Check out the other TurboTrains videos on our page, our visit our Turbotrain on our website, highspeedrailcanada.com
1976 was when I was born here in the states. I love CN, but CP is just total trash in my opinion. Edit, yep, cp has became a true dumpster fire, they ruined KCS, those bastards. Canadian National for the win!!!!!
At one point in my lifetime we excelled at being the best. Now, Ride your Bike to work and listen to DEI and LGBTQ Shit all day. Glad my run is over next year. The next generation can have this pile of shit. Man I miss the old days.
I worked onboard these trains from 1978 onward, when I started CN had transitioned to Via Rail, and watching this video I was transported back to that time period. Working the bar dome car at the tailend was fun and exciting, especially challenging when going into banks, because the automatic banking system wasn't always working. Anyway I was young so I found it very exciting to serve Via pasenger drinks in the dome. I was lucky to had the opportunity to work both the dome bar car and snack cars, working from Toronto to Montreal return was a very long day, but very rewarding.
thanks for sharing, must have a been good times! any photos from back then feel free to share through our website highspeedrailcanada.com
It's a pity that the Turbotrains ran for less than 15 years. Sounds like they'd be a fine match for the Acella.
It's interesting to see that Canadian National had a different attitude towards passenger trains compared to American RRs in 1970. It took another five years before CN finally threw in the towel.
so true
@Haweater, Canadian Pacific also operated passenger services until VIA Rail Canada was created in 1978.
@@johneddy908not really created, but expanded. VIA had been running CN's passenger trains for a couple years by that point
"young and exciting". "made more so by their fashionable clothes designed with a boutique flair". Holy hell I am sold, but wait the "Turbo ensemble" I have fainted!
We have in our collection some Turbo ensemble photos, great stuff
I rode Turbo once in 1976 between Toronto and Kingston. It broke down just outside of Kinston and we were helped by a freight unit. I agree that high speed rail between Toronto and Montreal is needed. The congestion / security at the airports pre-covid was ridiculous. The LRC wasn't comfortable. My best ride between Toronto and Montreal was in a 1940's era parlor car on 3 axel trucks. The ride was smooth as silk. I've ridden all over Europe where trains are terrific. They are fast, comfortable and clean.
A rapid train is needed and either overpasses or underpasses , along the route , it would solve any vehicle collisions and make the journey safer .
Thank you so much for uploading the entire video!
Our pleasure.
I watch this at least once a year. And not just for the train. The 70's cars and clothing and downtown culture are true time capsules
it is fun to watch
I never forget, when i got my Bachman turbo train set,
We absolutely need something like this on that same corridor, if it was just as cheap or more as driving, stopped very little, and is perhaps just a little more time than the plane, it would be great!
Electric would be faster and more economic and no pollution.
@@clarification007 you do realize how expensive it is to electrify a section of line, its really fucking expensive its like somewhere around 1 million or something per each mile
@@nikerailfanningttm9046 it’s well worth the investment
Yes , but so many expenses , underpasses or rail guards at every crossing , for safety .I dislike buses and air travel .Please I want to travel by train .
11:45 Note the floor height is a fair bit below standard for the high level platforms in Montreal.
I missed that, cheers
This has the most "Six Million Dollar Man" feeling for the opening.
I have seen the future and it is the past...the most gorgeous train to ever slip across (a small portion of) the North American continent).
Not sure if I mentioned in my long rant: The top speed for Montreal-Toronto was 03:59 minutes, not 3 hours. Still cut 1 hour off the Rapido trains (and 1.5 hours off current schedules under VIA). Much of the speed restrictions are due to freight traffic along the way. Back in the day of Turbo, CN still put priority on passenger trains, so they ran faster and more reliable schedules.
15:30 those "young, and exciting" hostesses would be more than 70 years old in 2020!!
They now work for Air Canada on the Moosejaw to Moncton flights
Ah, classic commercials- something positive in this crazy world we're living in 👍❤👍!!!
It's a shame that all UAC Turbotrains have been scrapped with none preserved. At least we have mini models and video games to remind us of what once was the UAC Turbotrain the speed to the future.
I love this!!! I’m so glad I found this video!!! The high speed rail in California is being built one block from my house in California! I’m so glad we are FINALLY getting highspeed rail. I had no idea that it existed in Canada when I was a child.
I have taken a ride on the Shinkansen. We also went to the Shinkansen museum. It’s fantastic. I think I’m gonna go ride a train in Canada soon.
lol, california's H.S.T. will probably fail. Leave it to Amtrak and Caltrain. H.S.T.'s are only good for long distances, not like California, but from state to state. For example, from were I live in Florida to lets say Wisconsin, and from Wisconsin to Washington state.
Don't know what it is with the Turbo over any other modern train that I think is so gorgeous and cool? Futuristic trains of the 50's and 60's are neat and attractive. But to me, it all culminated with the UAC Turbo. Everything after seemed just be an imitation of it's initial design.
Tilting Trains were tried again by MLW/Bombardier with the LRC cars still commonly used. But in the 2000s VIA Rail gave up trying to keep the tilting mechanism working and just locked them in the straight position.
true.
An amazing time capsule of Canadian railway passenger service. Thank you.
Glad you enjoyed it
15:28 The Turbo Club Lounges were located at each end of the train in the power cars, raised up several steps over the turbines. The driving cab was part of this section and apparently had windows right through so passengers get the same forward view as the engineer. Note there are window panels in the roof to give views equivalent to a true dome car, but many interior and overhead shots in this film show them covered over. Perhaps they were impractical to keep clean of black soot from turbine exhaust stacks, which went right up through the lounge. You can clearly see them here 12:35 but absent here 14:00.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
Makes me sick that there was a Tilting, homebuilt High Speed Train developed, tested and built less than 10 years after the Shinkansen came out. If only... if only.
Who built this tilting homemade high speed train? Sounds interesting.
Chance would be a fine thing, Lisa. A fine thing indeed.
IT deserved a better fate, better testing in the Winter before they introduced it and better track quality would have helped.
Way back in the day when I was just a young fella I rode the turbo from Montreal to Toronto.
I remember boarding the train and heading up to the bar dome car - before the train even left the station. Can't really say that I remember much more of the trip. I do remember being very sombre on the trip home. It was on the old Rapido. It seemed to take forever to get back.
🤣
Nice visual!
I was very little when the Turbo ran. We'd call it the Ladybug Train, because the nose looked like a giant ladybug. The VIA livery killed our ladybug.
We once rode the CN Turbo to Montreal. Such a beautiful train!
Thanks for sharing your story.
The music needs more flutes and muted trumpets
Don't forget the mellow xylophones
Good to know that all menu items were tested in experimental food labs
lol
People were a lot thinner back then
This was Canada's first attempt at High Speed rail the next attempt was with the LRC Trains both of which suffered fatal malfunctions (of these 2 The LRC lasted longer and survived to see the millennium albeit the locomotives retired and one sent to a museum while their coaches were pulled by the F40 or Genesis Locomotives)
UAC TurboTrain: 1968 to 1982
14 Years (All Scrapped)
LRC: 1981 to 2001
20 Years (Coaches remain in service until 2023)
A train like this needs to run at its maximum speed the entire run in order to be a success. It needs to be faster than driving or flying. Also grade separate the entire line too.
so true
United Aircraft became United Technologies Corporation five years after this film was made. In 2020 it merged with Raytheon Company to become Raytheon Technologies Corporation.
thanks for that information.
It's pointless to have a high-speed train that has to share tracks with freight trains and commuter trains, because they slow it down. That's been Canada's problem all along.
So true, that was part of the problem with this system. They r couldn’t run this anywhere near design speed. Only a little faster than a normal train. Current new engines on this route are capable of 200kph, but likely won’t be able to do that anytime soon either. The maintenance on the Turbo likely finished it off. Apparently they weren’t too bad later in service after the retrofits. Bombardier did propose the “jet train” which has a single PW100 (dash 8) engine for high speed use without Overhead wires. Seemed like a good idea, but no one took up that one.
Watching videos of the advanced HSR networks in Japan and Europe, makes me realize what we're missing out on in North America.
Turbine engines have excellent power to weight ratio, needed for planes, but are built for maximum efficiency at only one flat-out speed. Great for constant speed applications like planes, ships, stationary generators. Lousy for variable loads/speeds like trains, and very poor for the stop-and-go traffic of automobiles. Burn nearly as much fuel at idle as is full speed.
If memory serves, the Canadian turbos lasted a bit longer than Amtrak’s ill-fated turbos did.
Much longer. VIA ran the Canadian UAC turbos into the 1980s, long after Amtrak gave up on theirs.
Amtrak did try a second time with an order of French Ruhr Turboliners - they lasted much longer than the UAC turbos.
Probably the closest that Canadian rail has to a bullet train.
2:35 so that's where Rapido gets its intro sound from
6:59 what happened to the entire sentence?
Ben Mcpeek also wrote the music for the IMAX film,' 'Catch the Sun' that was shown at Ontario Place in 1973. He was known more as a jingle writer than anything else, writing music for commercials.
thanks for that info.
3:43 Jesus Christ lady, are you moving via trains? LMFAO
a few bags......
1970-the last time passenger rail tried to be ambitious and innovative in Canada. I'm with Quebec City;s mayor marchand in calling for the TGV to Toronto but it should carry on further to Detroit and Chicago. TO and Montreal should also carry to New York.
We could only hope.
Oh yes ,back when Montreal , was Canada's sacred city , the place to be and Canada's largest city . Montreal was the city that people talked about , not anymore . In the last 8 years ,I have met over 20 people , that have left Quebec for Ontario and shall never return .
It wasn't long after this was filmed that the great exodus began. My school as a kid in the 70s/80s had more thsn a fair share of recent transplants from Quebec.
The main exodus happened when BMO (Bank of Montreal) moved its HQ to downtown Toronto in the mid 70s, based on fears of a Quebec referendum on separation, which eventually happened in 1980. But by then, Toronto had become cemented as Canada's financial "capital" due to the same separation fears.
半世紀前にこんな斬新なかっこいい列車があったのは凄い‥モントリオール〜トロントを4時間は在来線として大変に韋駄天‥これは現在の東海道新幹線のN700系列を使用した、こだま号並みの表定速度であり凄いにつきる‥現在同区間を5時間〜5時間30分を要している事を鑑みれば極めて凄い列車だったと思います‥なお日本でもキハ391形というガスタービンの試作動車を作製し、ターボトレインを伯備線に導入する計画があったが結局実現する事はなく夢に終わった‥その区間には381系と云う振子電車が導入されたのは周知の事実である‥
Thank you for the comment.
I’m not sure I get this train. How is it possible for it to work using an aircraft engine? Where’s the air intake for the jet?
It doesn’t move using jet thrust like an aircraft. Instead, the high speed turbine turns a generator that powers motors attached to the wheels.
wow a supertrain.
so true
Engine and locomotive technology advances rapidly. Every 10 years we have something much better than what came before it. The Turbotrain was great at first, but after only 10 years it was clear that there were conventional diesel-electric locomotives that could do the job of pulling a train at high speed better than the engine in the turbotrain. They should have just hooked up that high-speed diesel to the front of the turbotrain and let it do the job of pulling the entire train around. The turbotrain would have been used in that manner for another 20 years with no problems.
22:51 what was the answer? downgrade with a train who's tilt doesn't even work and then completely give up.
I wish that they didn't scrap the whole trainsets, instead of scrapping them, they should remove the jet turbine engine out of these trainset and make them all electric and have it run with overhead Catenary line like they did with the Early TGV, and maybe the UAC would go faster.
interesting idea.
How could they power a 185 ton train with 4 gas turbine engines?
There were four per car, and also an auxiliary power unit. Not just four total
Actually 4 gas turbines for drive and 1 for aux power (lighting/heat). Wiki shows designed for 2 to 6 drive engines at 400hp each. As built seem to be 4 drive engines. Low rolling resistance is the big bonus with rail, the aluminum car don’t hurt. Large railway freight locomotives are about 3000hp for older ones and up to 6300HP ea. and they are hauling 2 km of freight. With only a handful of engines. Very efficient yet old tech.
back when cn had the coffers for a tower, turbos and...exciting women?
What was the reason to abandon those fast trains in Canada?
Mechanical problems
Using a turbine wasn´t really the best option. Besides mechanical problems. Fuelconsumpsion was not optimal. There was quite a lot of turbine trains in the late 60-tys. Most of them was scrapped very quickly in the oil crisis.
The turbotrain was really the only one that survived the oil crisis. But the fuel was still quite expensive even after the crisis.
Like others have said fuel costs after the 73 oil crisis rendered turbines an expensive oddity, especially on a corridor where they never 95 mph (turbine trains become somewhat more efficient once you pass the 125 mph barrier). Plus, this was a practically unique train. The only other buyer was Penn Central/the US DOT and they scraped their in the mid-70s so by the 80s I doubt there were many spare parts on hand to keep them in service.
It was never on a dedicated high speed rail line so it always had to deal with slower freight trains and level crossings so it never reached it's true potential.
They we’re dangerous
now canada has trains that can do 30o mph
100mph
canada is ace
ooohhhhyes
15:13 Oh, delicious microwave hamburgers.
15:42 “….hostesses: young, and exciting, made more so by their fashionable clothes.” Jesus Christ, could you objectify your staff a little more? Just the women, obviously - for the benefit of the business-class fellas.
Why not?
Interesting, but what a waste of film spending so much of it focused on weaving the fabrics and outfitting the train staff, rather than extensively profiling and touring the trains themselves outside and in. No aisle shots showing the overall arrangement of seats and cabins in either Turbo Coach or Turbo Club, the passenger-accessible passage to the inter-train gangways, or the driver’s cabs.
Even though the film’s director and production crew were credentialled, I would have told them to do the project over again, focusing more on the finished trainsets, or fired and replaced them.
I think the video was a product of the times. Check out the other TurboTrains videos on our page, our visit our Turbotrain on our website, highspeedrailcanada.com
1976 was when I was born here in the states.
I love CN, but CP is just total trash in my opinion.
Edit, yep, cp has became a true dumpster fire, they ruined KCS, those bastards.
Canadian National for the win!!!!!
At one point in my lifetime we excelled at being the best. Now, Ride your Bike to work and listen to DEI and LGBTQ Shit all day. Glad my run is over next year. The next generation can have this pile of shit. Man I miss the old days.
Bewiched daughter at 14:44!