Well...that's a novel use for the cannon (It's a shortened 20mm oerlikon like the one carried in the wings of an ME109 E model right?); I always thought it would come in handy during low level torpedo attacks on enemy shipping. The cannons pin down the deck gunners allowing for a somewhat less nerve wracking torpedo delivery.
The cannon is an Ikaria MG FF which is a derivative/copy of the 20mm Oerlikon cannon. Yes, sweeping the deck: thats probably why they fitted them forward facing only, for just such a reason!
Against two Il-2s the end result is one crashed with the pilot surviving and the other one continuing on, many holes but still flying. Not very impressive use of a 20mm cannon.
I have observed one thing with the damage model of this game and that is, in the scenario in this vid, if I hit the Il-2 with 3 shells in quci succession, Ie three direct hits, then it does big damage and she often tanks: but if I hot the Il-2 with any number of cannon shells, even say 10 or 12, but spaced apart, then the Il-2 doesnt accumulate the damage and just keeps on flying.
Just test in a quick mission to attack a ju88 or a HE111 with a soviet plane and after that, a second quick mission with the same settings, a PE-2 with a german attacker plane. U r going to be astonished, how good the soviet AI gunners and how bad the german AI gunners r. But for the devs that´s everything realistic....my ass
TL;DW (Too long, didn't watch): (and anyway, there was no comment nor analysis) - Hitting a Il-2 which keeps a steady position at 1 o'clock and close range without any wavering. Forget aiming at particular areas. - The recoil messes up anything but 2-3 shot bursts. - The Il-2's are supremely unimpressed by a large number of hits. Clearly the cannon is not up for that job. - The gondola cannon is nice for popping soft targets of opportunity (like a Stalinorgel carrier, trucks, locomotives). - The gondola cannon doesn't do tanks. - You need to take enough time to aim. You only get one shot (at that low altitude), even a burst will place shells before and behind, but not on the target. All in all, the cannons are fairly useless as defence against fighters, with too low a cadence to make any, never mind multiple hits likely and too slow a shell speed for a flat and accurate trajectory and too low powered to make a one- or two-hit sufficiently dangerous for an attacker. They'd be more useful as AA pointing aft, where lower relative speeds allow more time for aiming and multiple hits, but obviously the much higher cadence of MGs --- even though their shots are much smaller and less destructive per round --- have been chosen for that role. They can be used for some sort of suppression of ground-based AA (although you need to get fairly close to have a chance to hit with some accuracy) and are good for soft TOO (targets of opportunity) if you go low level. Recommendation: for the low level ground attack on soft targets the gondola cannon works, for more punch you'd need a larger calibre, which means less shells and a lower cadence. The latter is not terribly important since you are going to squeeze off just one shot per target anyway, the former may depend on the mission: if you hunt tanks etc., you need more punch. For medium and high altitude bombing missions swap the gondola cannon out for a strong machine gun, probably a twin-MG, maybe even a quad-MG mount. Replace the nose cannon. Either go multiple MGs with fast rounds and high cadence to make hits easier and more likely or switch to a calibre where it's one-shot-one-(mission)kill against most fighters most of the time.
So, was this He-111 H6 on a "gunship mission"? No bombs, just many 20mm magazines, with no Russian fighters to bother your "low and slow" bomber? Right. I'd suggest you get a shotgun and do some duck hunting. Your mediocre air-to-air and air-to-ground gunnery would get you reassigned to Luftwaffe infantry facing Russian infantry toot suite. (Here comes a pesky I-16. Gott im himmel! he's a better shot than that 20mm cannoneer! We're on fire and going down...)
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Evasive tactics...I know let's fly straight and level and ignore them shooting at us! Hmmm!!
I set them to fly that way in the mission editor so the effect of the MGFF can be observed. Normally they would immediately fly off.
Later models of heinkel like h6 had 20mm cannon in nose or ventral gondola, they were defensive armament against fighters or used in ground attack
Well...that's a novel use for the cannon (It's a shortened 20mm oerlikon like the one carried in the wings of an ME109 E model right?); I always thought it would come in handy during low level torpedo attacks on enemy shipping. The cannons pin down the deck gunners allowing for a somewhat less nerve wracking torpedo delivery.
The cannon is an Ikaria MG FF which is a derivative/copy of the 20mm Oerlikon cannon. Yes, sweeping the deck: thats probably why they fitted them forward facing only, for just such a reason!
Why don’t the crosshairs line up with the target? Why no evasive maneuvers?
Why all the questions?
Stalinium 2 stronk.
Too stronk. lol.
Against two Il-2s the end result is one crashed with the pilot surviving and the other one continuing on, many holes but still flying. Not very impressive use of a 20mm cannon.
It's the Stalinium. Very stronk metal.
I have observed one thing with the damage model of this game and that is, in the scenario in this vid, if I hit the Il-2 with 3 shells in quci succession, Ie three direct hits, then it does big damage and she often tanks: but if I hot the Il-2 with any number of cannon shells, even say 10 or 12, but spaced apart, then the Il-2 doesnt accumulate the damage and just keeps on flying.
Just test in a quick mission to attack a ju88 or a HE111 with a soviet plane and
after that, a second quick mission with the same settings, a PE-2 with a german attacker plane.
U r going to be astonished, how good the soviet AI gunners and how bad the german AI gunners r.
But for the devs that´s everything realistic....my ass
Ill have to try that soon..
TL;DW (Too long, didn't watch): (and anyway, there was no comment nor analysis)
- Hitting a Il-2 which keeps a steady position at 1 o'clock and close range without any wavering. Forget aiming at particular areas.
- The recoil messes up anything but 2-3 shot bursts.
- The Il-2's are supremely unimpressed by a large number of hits. Clearly the cannon is not up for that job.
- The gondola cannon is nice for popping soft targets of opportunity (like a Stalinorgel carrier, trucks, locomotives).
- The gondola cannon doesn't do tanks.
- You need to take enough time to aim. You only get one shot (at that low altitude), even a burst will place shells before and behind, but not on the target.
All in all, the cannons are fairly useless as defence against fighters, with too low a cadence to make any, never mind multiple hits likely and too slow a shell speed for a flat and accurate trajectory and too low powered to make a one- or two-hit sufficiently dangerous for an attacker. They'd be more useful as AA pointing aft, where lower relative speeds allow more time for aiming and multiple hits, but obviously the much higher cadence of MGs --- even though their shots are much smaller and less destructive per round --- have been chosen for that role.
They can be used for some sort of suppression of ground-based AA (although you need to get fairly close to have a chance to hit with some accuracy) and are good for soft TOO (targets of opportunity) if you go low level.
Recommendation: for the low level ground attack on soft targets the gondola cannon works, for more punch you'd need a larger calibre, which means less shells and a lower cadence. The latter is not terribly important since you are going to squeeze off just one shot per target anyway, the former may depend on the mission: if you hunt tanks etc., you need more punch.
For medium and high altitude bombing missions swap the gondola cannon out for a strong machine gun, probably a twin-MG, maybe even a quad-MG mount.
Replace the nose cannon. Either go multiple MGs with fast rounds and high cadence to make hits easier and more likely or switch to a calibre where it's one-shot-one-(mission)kill against most fighters most of the time.
TLDR....(KIDDING!) Yeh nah you make some great points there. I'll have to do some more comments and analysis in future vids. Cheers.
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any one else spot the Train at 1:03 ?
Yeah, but how did it get there without any tracks?
Pe2 pilots asleep?
You're gonna need a bigger gun.
Russian planes built strong like Russian bear.
Mk108 is the bigger gun, 1 shell is all it takes. lol.
So, was this He-111 H6 on a "gunship mission"? No bombs, just many 20mm magazines, with no Russian fighters to bother your "low and slow" bomber? Right. I'd suggest you get a shotgun and do some duck hunting. Your mediocre air-to-air and air-to-ground gunnery would get you reassigned to Luftwaffe infantry facing Russian infantry toot suite. (Here comes a pesky I-16. Gott im himmel! he's a better shot than that 20mm cannoneer! We're on fire and going down...)