I must agree with your comment about the short comings of the alcohol wash. For the past three years, I’ve been counting dead mites on sticky boards every 24 hours after treating with OA. Did random AWs and found zero mites. Treated again and found dead mites on sticky boards. Conclusion, zero mites from AW does not mean zero mites in hives.
Thanks Zac and James for this discussion farther into drone sampling. Great information, I really like the 'elimination' method for producing treated clean nucs in spring.
If drones are better to sample, what about drone brood as that would give you an even earlier warning of mites? I always do a cursory examination of drone brood for mites especially that which is pulled apart when pulling off the top brood box. I will also now do a more methodical alcohol wash examination of drones taken from central frames. Thank you for your exemplary work! I really like your strategy of breaking down colonies that don’t pass muster early in the season followed by treatment and requeening.
Try a pair of "reader magnifiers" to inspect hives if wearing non-bifocal contact lenses. Why would you not treat those higher mite count hives to reduce mite counts on drones instead of splitting them? Do you have that log sheet available that was mentioned in the video?
I think the point of pinching the queen and splitting, is to eliminate the queens genetics while retaining the work force. I think the goal is to focus more on the colonies that maintain lower mite loads on their own. My question is... would it be more worthwhile to put a queen excluder under the brood chamber to prevent drones from that hive from going out to mate. Thus greatly reducing that queens genetics from propagating further? Or if there may be a chance that those higher mite loads might help lead to a genetic mutation that may eventually result in more resistent genetics?
The fact that drones are highly unlikely to stay in their original colony once they are flying definitely shows why the evolution of the mite would prefer drones!
We are hearing reports from folks engaged in drone sampling last year that the mites themselves are impossibly hooked into the drones. Washes aren't freeing them and microscopic inspection is revealing the mites are remaining intact.
Can the bees be shaken back into the colony through a Queen excluder which would sift out the drones? Staple a plastic Queen excluder to the bottom of a medium and place on hive. Shake bees through excluder. This would quickly aggregate drones.
Great minds think alike. Or is it great minds think for themselves? Either way, I was thinking the same thing. Also... time is more precious than money. You can't buy beg borrow or steal another second, and you never know when you'll run out. 5mL or 10mL plastic vials/test tubes can be had for around $10-15 online. A littke rack or holder could be made from scrap wood with a drill. Would be an efficient way of getting that more narrow resolution of being able to find how many of the drones sampled had how many mites. Maybe superfluous. But for those that might want that smaller accuracy but has a more difficult time visually... might be worth it. And they're reusable for a lot or other things. As long as one isn't wanting to use them for a sample that will be tested for chemical or microbiological data.
That does seem to be a possible means of conducting an assay. But, the issue there is that, as he said in the beginning; that day 1, day 2, and day 3 drone mite count... not ALL of those mites were present in the cells, some of those mites were on workers or in worker cells, that then moved to their preferential host post emergence. So the mites are basically "meats back on the menu boys!" As soon as those fresh young drones emerge. So that's one issue with doing a drone comb, freeze and fork test. Another possible issue is the question that was presented by Michael Bush, which was "what influence are we having on the natural selection and selective pressure of the mites by drone freezing? If you do that long enough, the mites that favor drone cells are getting killed off and removed from the gene pool. And we're putting selective pressure on the mites which leads to the mites that favor worker cells to reproduce more... how many years will it be before the drone freezing doesn't work anymore?" However... on the flip side. I suppose one coukd use a drone frame, put it in, wait until it's about ready to hatch; I ulk it, freeze it, do the 100 or 200 cells lije a Harbo Assay; then place it back in the original colony for a couple hours to evaluate the colonies tendencies and effectiveness at the hygienic behavior, for unhappiness and removing unhealthy or dead brood. My thoughts were taking the frame from the middle of the hive,, setting a QE on top of the hive, and shaking that frame into the hive box. The workers should go down through while the drones should get stuck and be easier to sort out.
I must agree with your comment about the short comings of the alcohol wash. For the past three years, I’ve been counting dead mites on sticky boards every 24 hours after treating with OA. Did random AWs and found zero mites. Treated again and found dead mites on sticky boards. Conclusion, zero mites from AW does not mean zero mites in hives.
Thanks Zac and James for this discussion farther into drone sampling. Great information, I really like the 'elimination' method for producing treated clean nucs in spring.
If drones are better to sample, what about drone brood as that would give you an even earlier warning of mites? I always do a cursory examination of drone brood for mites especially that which is pulled apart when pulling off the top brood box. I will also now do a more methodical alcohol wash examination of drones taken from central frames. Thank you for your exemplary work! I really like your strategy of breaking down colonies that don’t pass muster early in the season followed by treatment and requeening.
Try a pair of "reader magnifiers" to inspect hives if wearing non-bifocal contact lenses. Why would you not treat those higher mite count hives to reduce mite counts on drones instead of splitting them? Do you have that log sheet available that was mentioned in the video?
I think the point of pinching the queen and splitting, is to eliminate the queens genetics while retaining the work force.
I think the goal is to focus more on the colonies that maintain lower mite loads on their own.
My question is... would it be more worthwhile to put a queen excluder under the brood chamber to prevent drones from that hive from going out to mate. Thus greatly reducing that queens genetics from propagating further? Or if there may be a chance that those higher mite loads might help lead to a genetic mutation that may eventually result in more resistent genetics?
The fact that drones are highly unlikely to stay in their original colony once they are flying definitely shows why the evolution of the mite would prefer drones!
We are hearing reports from folks engaged in drone sampling last year that the mites themselves are impossibly hooked into the drones. Washes aren't freeing them and microscopic inspection is revealing the mites are remaining intact.
Thank you~ how perfect drone- catch ya later~ =)
Thanks for watching and appreciate your support!
Can the bees be shaken back into the colony through a Queen excluder which would sift out the drones?
Staple a plastic Queen excluder to the bottom of a medium and place on hive. Shake bees through excluder.
This would quickly aggregate drones.
More than one way to sample a drone!
Great minds think alike. Or is it great minds think for themselves?
Either way, I was thinking the same thing. Also... time is more precious than money. You can't buy beg borrow or steal another second, and you never know when you'll run out.
5mL or 10mL plastic vials/test tubes can be had for around $10-15 online. A littke rack or holder could be made from scrap wood with a drill. Would be an efficient way of getting that more narrow resolution of being able to find how many of the drones sampled had how many mites. Maybe superfluous. But for those that might want that smaller accuracy but has a more difficult time visually... might be worth it. And they're reusable for a lot or other things. As long as one isn't wanting to use them for a sample that will be tested for chemical or microbiological data.
Why not get a green drone frame and take it out of the hive before they hatch freeze and then inspect the frame
This is an effective means of early mite mitigation for chemical free beekeeping. We like it!
That does seem to be a possible means of conducting an assay. But, the issue there is that, as he said in the beginning; that day 1, day 2, and day 3 drone mite count... not ALL of those mites were present in the cells, some of those mites were on workers or in worker cells, that then moved to their preferential host post emergence.
So the mites are basically "meats back on the menu boys!" As soon as those fresh young drones emerge.
So that's one issue with doing a drone comb, freeze and fork test. Another possible issue is the question that was presented by Michael Bush, which was "what influence are we having on the natural selection and selective pressure of the mites by drone freezing? If you do that long enough, the mites that favor drone cells are getting killed off and removed from the gene pool. And we're putting selective pressure on the mites which leads to the mites that favor worker cells to reproduce more... how many years will it be before the drone freezing doesn't work anymore?"
However... on the flip side. I suppose one coukd use a drone frame, put it in, wait until it's about ready to hatch; I ulk it, freeze it, do the 100 or 200 cells lije a Harbo Assay; then place it back in the original colony for a couple hours to evaluate the colonies tendencies and effectiveness at the hygienic behavior, for unhappiness and removing unhealthy or dead brood.
My thoughts were taking the frame from the middle of the hive,, setting a QE on top of the hive, and shaking that frame into the hive box. The workers should go down through while the drones should get stuck and be easier to sort out.
I had a partner complain about drone poop smell in the morning...
Gross!