People seem to forget that in the show, Toby's impassioned and understandable speech, taking place right during the fallout years of post 9/11, isn't the end of the story. Some commentary saying this hasn't aged well need to watch the episode. Your seeing an Act 2 scene without Act 3.
Toby was perhaps in many ways the best Character on the WW and one of.the best TV Characters ever. Not a particularly likeable person, a pessimist who did not like those not as smart as him. The relationship between him and Bartlett was superbly done, there is little doubt that Bartlett did not like him but knew he was the right person in the right place at the right time.
@@passiveagressive4983 More than Leo? Remember that CJ was junior to both Toby and Josh when Bartlett made her the new Chief of Staff. Maybe saying he did not like Toby is a bit Strong, there relationship was complicated and there was plenty of mutual respect but I don’t think they could ever be friends. Toby was not a particularly likeable character full stop, no one hated him but none of them were close to him either.
@@passiveagressive4983 Bartlet respected Toby. That doesn't mean he liked him, and that's OK. There's nothing wrong with looking at a co-worker and saying "I can't stand the guy, but he's great at what he does." That's just called being a professional.
this 'catchphrase' from Toby had been popping into my head a lot recently. I googled it and watched the clip and it was so long since I saw the episode I could've sworn it was referring to a Bartlett Presidential Campaign. Disappointed it's about foreign policy because I can't really quote or share it without seeming like someone interested in taking over the world. It's too bad because it's such an underrated strategy for so many things in life; especially with how people live their life today, willing to sell their souls for likes and followers....
Ask the vets that when they got back from WWII. If we lose, there is no America. Many people don't want to admit it but without America, there is not much Earth, either. Posit: Imagine the US fails during the Great Depression. Everything that the South wanted during the Civil War comes to pass and we become two nations instead of one. Hell..without a united America the West Coast might well be a third nation unto itself. Now imagine WWII happens (because most of what was happening in America was not 'world stage' material at that time). Germany and Russia declare war on Europe. Japan likely would not have attacked the US because we would not have expanded to Hawaii, would not have developed the steel and oil industries that we were trading with Japan and so would not have embargoed them when they invaded China. Germany takes France and begins bombing England. The Northern United States would not have been able to send as much aid as we did and England falls. Europe becomes Naziland, Russia, and Germany glare at each other for a while and eventually one of them builds the Atomic Bomb. Japan conquers China and begins a generation of oppression and exploitation. Do you really think Hitler wouldn't use the bomb on Russia if he had one? You really think Russia wouldn't use it? Japan couldn't use it because they didn't have one...just a huge number of troops willing to fight and die for their God-Emperor. Eventually, one of those three gets the upper hand and invades the Middle East in search of oil. None of them care about Muslims or the Holy Land or any of that...they simply want the resources. The attempted Russian takeover of Afganistan gives us an idea of how well that would go. Eventually, someone nukes the Middle East and then the game is over. Can any sane person really think that this wouldn't happen? Can anyone believe that a world where someone like Hitler is in charge would be better?
Funny thing about that, there both is and isn't one. If the loss is not to embarrassing it'll be overlooked and retribution will come from elsewhere. If it's something that can't be overlooked, well the USA has never "lost" a war, and thanks to Nuclear weapons, we never will. Or at least there won't be enough left to definitely say one way or the other.
@@Comicsluvr The Earth existed for billions of years before America. Hell, multiple thousand-year-long civilizations rose and fell before America was ever thought of as a nation in the sense that it is today. The world would be fine without us. Different. Maybe extremely different. But fine.
People saying It didn't age well miss the even more basic truth. This didn't make sense when he said it. And Tony is probably my favorite character ever on television.
"I don't remember having to explain to Italians that our problem wasn't with them but with Mussolini". Obviously. Because Italians come from broadly the same religio-cultural background as Americans. The underlying assumptions of good and bad are more or less the same to both sets of people. See where I'm going with this?
Of course you and the rest of the brainwashed dirtbags at that time in history. Didn't have to explain that the problem wasn't them. Because the young snot nose italians at that time. We're already beeing groomed by the US. To hate everything that smelled far right. Leader B. Mussolini was not a coward in front of the young snot nose italian communist sympathizers. Not by a long shot. But yes he was far right of course. Why .?..For the very purpose. To protect his country from the communist infiltration. In the form of these snot nose italian communist sympathizers. Calling treferring to him as a " fascist ". If Mussolini beeing far right leader made him a so called " fascist ". Then the young snot nose italians. We're brainwashed communist POS by guess who..?. The US. The US government ever since communist Castro in Cuba. We're and are still to this day. Financiers of communism all over south américa. Cuba was their first ( shall we say ). Their first bullsh ' t brainchild idea. Ever since then. All of south américa. Actually México was the US 's mock / up start up. With their plan to communize all of the western hemisphere. Cuba was / is still their first trial run. To have their ( US's ) private experiment. To just piss away the cuban's livelyhoods and their freedoms. In 1952 thru 1958. Of course. It's now been 63 long f ' cking years of communism. Dished out by the US Gov / State Department, the weasels inside the CIA. The US policies in the early 50's and thruout the late 50's. Seemed to all ban together. Against the former free republic of Cuba. To cast off throw away the cubans into communism. For exactly what logical reasoning..?. There isn't any logical reasoning !!. To actually forcé a former free society on the biggest island in the caribbean. Into a slavery of communism hell on earth. The US right now as i write this.. Is reaping what they sowed against the cubans. In December of 1958.
here's hoping that reasonable democrats and republicans appear in America sometime. People could really learn how to think for themselves instead of subscribing to premade political groups. Sorkin understands this.
Toby in Season 1: The phrase Judeo-Christian values is a cover for "evangelical" politicians that try to force their views on the rest of the country, and should not be a part of a government that has a separation of church and state. Toby in Season 3: We will shove our Judeo-Christian values down your throat and force you to thank us for it to cover for the fact that the people who attacked us actually came from one of our only allies in the Middle East.
@@op3129 the reference was to the show West Wing. when the character Toby says "they will listen when we win." I agree with you we don't buy maybe they will. the message . . . is unclear. . . Jen the message is America is the terrorists message received by them . . . America still thinks were Nobel. we're not we just need to keep the profits up with endless wars.best thing to do in la make sure were all afraid. so my message are you afraid of anything? cause u read a book ling ago that took my fear away and helped my love people different than me. I live black and brown people I love gay and lasbians and now even a transgender but shut she's a bit Cray Cray. but she's my friends daughter/son. he's just a but manic now. yeah but that's the bible I look for hope and peace and a God that lives all people no later what. I may be wrong but they will listen when we win. to that end it not about killing. it's about loving
@@TheBunnyodeath toby's rant is vile bc his ACTUAL words are: "they'll *_LIKE US_* when we win!!" - not "listen" (as you claim). your view mirrors that of an abuser. ("she'll listen when ... ") your "winning" necessitates "losers." they aren't - and won't - "listen" just bc they've been beaten/vanquished/brutalized/subjugated etc. (military has whole manuals how NOT to do what you're talking about - bc it literally CREATES opposition) no idea why you're mimicking how spousal/child abusers talk, but maybe re-think that.
It does make you think doesn't it? So far there have been two revolutions in Iran. One against the democratic government. One against a murderous dictator. Guess which one the US sponsored and which the US tried to put down?
Oh man, that post-9/11 writing. It's so cringe looking back at it now, almost two decades later. "They'll like us when we win." YEAH, NO, ACTUALLY, THAT'S NOT HOW THAT WORKS.
Syria Egypt Libya Iraq all country of 67 war now over trown not make peace with Israel Jordan is just fine and they made peace with Israel humm no link here
Well, Toby could have talked to Obama. He thought the Koran and Muslims were wonderful. And apologized for being mean old United States. “I will always put America first” never came out of his mouth, did it? I love Toby’s rant. And I usually didn’t like Toby’s rants.
@@barryschwarz Try this excuse on your wife. You'll find out pretty quick that it won't fly and that some of those "never needed to be said" things actually DO need to be said, and repeatedly!!!
@@crucisnh I don't think I need to tell my wife that I'm her husband. Telling her I'm devoted to her isn't necessary because I show it. Toby never said, "I'll always put America first," either. He did say in this scene, "Do I want to preach America? Judeo-Christianity? No." Toby elsewhere talks about America's foibles. (th-cam.com/video/GYHJiaZ8tGE/w-d-xo.html) These people are patriots. They're not blind patriots. And they don't puff up the nationalistic chest. They don't need to.
It was the mannerism Richard Schiff added to his character, Toby Ziegler, of moving his lips and really (yes, really) not saying anything. That got really annoying. But next to the endless rants about how the country was bringing something (democracy), that still doesn't exist (democracy), to a world we are supposedly saving it (democracy) for, I guess the endless, silent mouthing of words is a trifle. Watching this show was like reading people magazine. Something you did in private and didn't admit to in public. Ever.
People seem to forget that in the show, Toby's impassioned and understandable speech, taking place right during the fallout years of post 9/11, isn't the end of the story. Some commentary saying this hasn't aged well need to watch the episode. Your seeing an Act 2 scene without Act 3.
Toby was perhaps in many ways the best Character on the WW and one of.the best TV Characters ever. Not a particularly likeable person, a pessimist who did not like those not as smart as him. The relationship between him and Bartlett was superbly done, there is little doubt that Bartlett did not like him but knew he was the right person in the right place at the right time.
Bartlett DID like Toby, in fact he respected him the most of all his senior staff. They had a unique relationship.
@@passiveagressive4983 More than Leo? Remember that CJ was junior to both Toby and Josh when Bartlett made her the new Chief of Staff. Maybe saying he did not like Toby is a bit Strong, there relationship was complicated and there was plenty of mutual respect but I don’t think they could ever be friends. Toby was not a particularly likeable character full stop, no one hated him but none of them were close to him either.
@@passiveagressive4983 Bartlet respected Toby. That doesn't mean he liked him, and that's OK. There's nothing wrong with looking at a co-worker and saying "I can't stand the guy, but he's great at what he does." That's just called being a professional.
Ty, was really looking for this
+Sachin Patel Thanks. We need to spread it around.
looooooool sachin
this 'catchphrase' from Toby had been popping into my head a lot recently. I googled it and watched the clip and it was so long since I saw the episode I could've sworn it was referring to a Bartlett Presidential Campaign. Disappointed it's about foreign policy because I can't really quote or share it without seeming like someone interested in taking over the world. It's too bad because it's such an underrated strategy for so many things in life; especially with how people live their life today, willing to sell their souls for likes and followers....
"They'll like us when we win" What is the backup plan if he lose then?
Ask the vets that when they got back from WWII. If we lose, there is no America. Many people don't want to admit it but without America, there is not much Earth, either.
Posit: Imagine the US fails during the Great Depression. Everything that the South wanted during the Civil War comes to pass and we become two nations instead of one. Hell..without a united America the West Coast might well be a third nation unto itself. Now imagine WWII happens (because most of what was happening in America was not 'world stage' material at that time). Germany and Russia declare war on Europe. Japan likely would not have attacked the US because we would not have expanded to Hawaii, would not have developed the steel and oil industries that we were trading with Japan and so would not have embargoed them when they invaded China. Germany takes France and begins bombing England. The Northern United States would not have been able to send as much aid as we did and England falls. Europe becomes Naziland, Russia, and Germany glare at each other for a while and eventually one of them builds the Atomic Bomb. Japan conquers China and begins a generation of oppression and exploitation.
Do you really think Hitler wouldn't use the bomb on Russia if he had one? You really think Russia wouldn't use it? Japan couldn't use it because they didn't have one...just a huge number of troops willing to fight and die for their God-Emperor. Eventually, one of those three gets the upper hand and invades the Middle East in search of oil. None of them care about Muslims or the Holy Land or any of that...they simply want the resources. The attempted Russian takeover of Afganistan gives us an idea of how well that would go. Eventually, someone nukes the Middle East and then the game is over.
Can any sane person really think that this wouldn't happen? Can anyone believe that a world where someone like Hitler is in charge would be better?
Funny thing about that, there both is and isn't one. If the loss is not to embarrassing it'll be overlooked and retribution will come from elsewhere. If it's something that can't be overlooked, well the USA has never "lost" a war, and thanks to Nuclear weapons, we never will. Or at least there won't be enough left to definitely say one way or the other.
@@thomasschulz2167 we lost the vietnam war.
@@Comicsluvr The Earth existed for billions of years before America. Hell, multiple thousand-year-long civilizations rose and fell before America was ever thought of as a nation in the sense that it is today. The world would be fine without us. Different. Maybe extremely different. But fine.
@@JusticeFrogs Decisively.
People saying It didn't age well miss the even more basic truth. This didn't make sense when he said it.
And Tony is probably my favorite character ever on television.
"I don't remember having to explain to Italians that our problem wasn't with them but with Mussolini". Obviously. Because Italians come from broadly the same religio-cultural background as Americans. The underlying assumptions of good and bad are more or less the same to both sets of people. See where I'm going with this?
I see it. But Aaron Sorkin wouldn't see it.
Of course you and the rest of the brainwashed dirtbags at that time in history. Didn't have to explain that the problem wasn't them. Because the young snot nose italians at that time. We're already beeing groomed by the US. To hate everything that smelled far right. Leader B. Mussolini was not a coward in front of the young snot nose italian communist sympathizers. Not by a long shot. But yes he was far right of course. Why .?..For the very purpose. To protect his country from the communist infiltration. In the form of these snot nose italian communist sympathizers. Calling treferring to him as a " fascist ". If Mussolini beeing far right leader made him a so called " fascist ". Then the young snot nose italians. We're brainwashed communist POS by guess who..?. The US. The US government ever since communist Castro in Cuba. We're and are still to this day. Financiers of communism all over south américa. Cuba was their first ( shall we say ). Their first bullsh ' t brainchild idea. Ever since then. All of south américa. Actually México was the US 's mock / up start up. With their plan to communize all of the western hemisphere. Cuba was / is still their first trial run. To have their ( US's ) private experiment. To just piss away the cuban's livelyhoods and their freedoms. In 1952 thru 1958. Of course. It's now been 63 long f ' cking years of communism. Dished out by the US Gov / State Department, the weasels inside the CIA. The US policies in the early 50's and thruout the late 50's. Seemed to all ban together. Against the former free republic of Cuba. To cast off throw away the cubans into communism. For exactly what logical reasoning..?. There isn't any logical reasoning !!. To actually forcé a former free society on the biggest island in the caribbean. Into a slavery of communism hell on earth. The US right now as i write this.. Is reaping what they sowed against the cubans. In December of 1958.
"They'll love us when we win!"
Lmao
that's not the quote.
did you even watch the video?
here's hoping that reasonable democrats and republicans appear in America sometime. People could really learn how to think for themselves instead of subscribing to premade political groups. Sorkin understands this.
This comment did not age well
Whether you agree or disagree with Toby, this sure wasn't the view of the Obama admin.
West wing was a t.v. show. A very good one , a frustrating one from time to time. It was the push and pull of humanity
Toby in Season 1:
The phrase Judeo-Christian values is a cover for "evangelical" politicians that try to force their views on the rest of the country, and should not be a part of a government that has a separation of church and state.
Toby in Season 3:
We will shove our Judeo-Christian values down your throat and force you to thank us for it to cover for the fact that the people who attacked us actually came from one of our only allies in the Middle East.
Toby in this very clip: "Do I want to preach 'America Judeo-Christianity'? No."
they will listen when we win
they won't.
@@op3129 the reference was to the show West Wing. when the character Toby says "they will listen when we win." I agree with you we don't buy maybe they will. the message . . . is unclear. . . Jen the message is America is the terrorists message received by them . . . America still thinks were Nobel. we're not we just need to keep the profits up with endless wars.best thing to do in la make sure were all afraid. so my message are you afraid of anything? cause u read a book ling ago that took my fear away and helped my love people different than me. I live black and brown people I love gay and lasbians and now even a transgender but shut she's a bit Cray Cray. but she's my friends daughter/son. he's just a but manic now. yeah but that's the bible I look for hope and peace and a God that lives all people no later what. I may be wrong but they will listen when we win. to that end it not about killing. it's about loving
@@TheBunnyodeath toby's rant is vile
bc his ACTUAL words are: "they'll *_LIKE US_* when we win!!" - not "listen" (as you claim).
your view mirrors that of an abuser. ("she'll listen when ... ")
your "winning" necessitates "losers." they aren't - and won't - "listen" just bc they've been beaten/vanquished/brutalized/subjugated etc.
(military has whole manuals how NOT to do what you're talking about - bc it literally CREATES opposition)
no idea why you're mimicking how spousal/child abusers talk, but maybe re-think that.
17
A lot of The West Wing aged very well.
Some of it really did not.
This... did not age well.
@@christophermirabito9544
They loving America yet?
Has America won yet?
It does make you think doesn't it? So far there have been two revolutions in Iran. One against the democratic government. One against a murderous dictator.
Guess which one the US sponsored and which the US tried to put down?
Oh man, that post-9/11 writing. It's so cringe looking back at it now, almost two decades later.
"They'll like us when we win." YEAH, NO, ACTUALLY, THAT'S NOT HOW THAT WORKS.
Meh.
Syria Egypt Libya Iraq all country of 67 war now over trown not make peace with Israel
Jordan is just fine and they made peace with Israel humm no link here
Spot on.
"Reactionary" Toby the Communist.
Well, Toby could have talked to Obama. He thought the Koran and Muslims were wonderful. And apologized for being mean old United States.
“I will always put America first” never came out of his mouth, did it?
I love Toby’s rant. And I usually didn’t like Toby’s rants.
It never came out of his mouth because it never needed to be said. If you have to explain it, you aint it.
@@barryschwarz Try this excuse on your wife. You'll find out pretty quick that it won't fly and that some of those "never needed to be said" things actually DO need to be said, and repeatedly!!!
@@crucisnh I don't think I need to tell my wife that I'm her husband. Telling her I'm devoted to her isn't necessary because I show it. Toby never said, "I'll always put America first," either. He did say in this scene, "Do I want to preach America? Judeo-Christianity? No." Toby elsewhere talks about America's foibles. (th-cam.com/video/GYHJiaZ8tGE/w-d-xo.html) These people are patriots. They're not blind patriots. And they don't puff up the nationalistic chest. They don't need to.
Rant is garbage for idiots
It was the mannerism Richard Schiff added to his character, Toby Ziegler, of moving his lips and really (yes, really) not saying anything. That got really annoying. But next to the endless rants about how the country was bringing something (democracy), that still doesn't exist (democracy), to a world we are supposedly saving it (democracy) for, I guess the endless, silent mouthing of words is a trifle. Watching this show was like reading people magazine. Something you did in private and didn't admit to in public. Ever.