How Small Open-World Games Feel Big
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 มิ.ย. 2024
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I've been playing a lot of short open-world games, and despite them only taking a couple hours to beat, there is something about a lot of them that just feels massive. For me, they embody a sense of discovery and exploration more effectively than some titles that are 10 times longer, and I wanted to spend some looking into why that might be. So, this is how small open-world games feel big.
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#openworld #shortgames #smallworlds - เกม
good day gamers
edit: gotten a few comments asking the spelling of Alba: A Wildlife Adventure. that is how to spell it! go play it!
Hello
G’day mate
Hey raz
Good evening gamer
:D
Remember gamers: size doesn't matter, it's how you use it
Doesnt only count for games😏
Even more how you use it, is *if* you use it at all.
:flushed:
Yeah it does, I downloaded a single new game and it was so big I had no space left in my hard drive :(
That's not what she said
The Yakuza series is probably the best example, the map is always small, but it's super dense, full of different activities to do, unique side quests and memorable ppl to meet, Kamurocho is always a joy to go back to.
Yes, I was thinking the exact same!
Fr its not gigantic, but thanks to it having so much in that smaller space it feels more lively and fun than something like gta v imo
everytime i bought a yakuza game the first thing i do is search for the karaoke instead of doing the main story
I still have Yakuza 0 on my pile of shame, another title yet to be played...
...Instead I replay FTL, hoping that *this time* I'm definitely beating the Rebel Flagship.
Totally agree. Ive spent hours just wandering around the city even after iv been the main game and gotten most of the side quests. The city feels so real and filled with life that I sometimes just leave the game open and use the street sounds as a way to focus on homework and hobbies.
I paused this video to go buy A Short Hike, I played it all day, finished it, and came back to finish this video. I just wanna thank you for introducing me to this game, because due to some personal experience as of recently, it made me cry. I think it’s one of my favorite games now and I loved every second. I highly recommend it to anyone honestly. It’s that good.
It made me cry too
The emotional tone of the entire thing was so on point and it also was close to my heart for lived experiences
I hope you're doing well
Oh shit well I guess I'll have to play it
@@r2d2fromstartrack83 You don't _have_ to, you *need* to.
@@alex.g7317 I did :D
@@r2d2fromstartrack83 ko0L
Dark Souls 1 is definitely an attest to this. Exploring the world it feels huge your first time playing but the first time I saw a 3d model of the entire map I was mind blown by how small the world actually is.
It does it so amazingly well. true, it does and up being a lot of "corridors" and small to medium sized rooms, but you never need more than that. And most importantly: despite being such a small world it offers you plenty of shortcuts to unlock that besides enabling you to cut through a lot of your travel time it also adds so much coherency.
I never forget the feeling of riding the elevator down from the church all the way to firelink shrine.
"I want to leave wanting more" is such a fantastic line. This is how fandoms (and lifelong fans within) are born.
Brilliant marketing strategy as well.. Makes people talk about the game years after last patch (see Hollow Knight)
Couldn't agree more. Kenshi is a great example here. While it is a large world and has many shortcomings in graphics and optimization, everything it does well makes it so that fans will dump thousands of hours into it even with it being only single player and when it's been around since Steam Greenlight's launch.
Leave them wanting more is a famous line. Nothing new but it's true
So true
Its been the marking of a great piece of artwork for a reeeally long time. My example is Metallica's Ride The Lightning album. I dont like hearing the same songs over and over again, but I want more songs like those on the album, and Metallica's other albums just have a different tone to them.
Small open worlds conversation without mentioning Yakuza. The world is so compact it's basically just a block of a town with tons and tons to do, tons of entertaining and well written side quests about the residents of Kamurocho, all of the complete just there for fun games especially the Sega arcade games and the way the town just fleshes out the main narrative is a chefs kiss
Haven't played Yakuza, but it did come up when researching. Ultimately, I was a little more interested in focusing on small and SHORT games, which the Yakuza series is not, but it definitely does a lot of good stuff in how it utilizes its world from what I have heard!
@@razbuten either way I completely agree with the size is not equal to scale and/or quality, another great video Raz
Isn't the newest Deus Ex similar? A small compact open world.
@@razbuten Yeah, Yakuza is a great example of how to build a great open world game in the smallest space imaginable. I also think it’s brilliant they use the SAME space so much, you become so intimately familiar with Kamurocho that I learned the town like I know my own town. (Which is disorienting when you jump to the next game and some locations have closed/moved).
But yeah, that’s a different topic then the one you presented in this video, and shorter overall experiences need a LOT more love in today’s gaming world.
@@razbuten what about genshin impact, i stop playing once the main quest halted and came back recently, they added a single mountain and it made the world huge again, the way they reutilize the space with the quests,even utilizing the same dungeons but adding new traps and enemies depending on the quest you are making make the world fell like an mmo in size, while having only 3 regions
It’s basically like how life feels shorter the older you get; there are less new experiences the older you get, so a lot of it is forgettable
That's actually a really good analogy
no not really you are quite limited in what you can do as a kid or teen
That's quite a depressing take on it lmao
@@MGrey-qb5xz Being limited is exactly what makes everything so memorable and the experiences so amazing.
@@MGrey-qb5xz i feel like the average 30 year old has less variety in their life than a teenager
Outer Wilds is also pretty amazing in this regard. I don't think I remember so much about the world of any other game. Outer Wilds and its planets have been stuck in my head from the day I finished it.
I have to agree with every comment that praises Outer Wilds.
Totally agree, such a beautiful galaxy it is.
outer wilds is a masterpiece of a videogame. imo one of the best games of the last decade. it gives exploration true weight and meaning.
It's such a fucking masterpiece of a game. However, fuck dark bramble. I love it all the same for being memorable but fuck that planet
I've been wanting to try Outer Wilds out for so long now but my controller goes haywire with it so I've had to shelf it 😭
A short hike is incredible! Anyone should play it I think.
This comment sounds like the dialogue from short hike
Well, i just saw the video and so many comments recommending it and yours was the final straw. So i bought it, played it and finished it in 2 hours and it was amazing.
Such a fulfilling experience.
I loved it so muchhh. A very good game :)
Alright you got me, I'll play it!
I played this game last summer, during a bit of a rough patch in my life. It was the absolute perfect escape, and one of the happiest solo gaming memories I have. I'll definitely be revisiting it soon.
I sooo hope that small open worlds become the general consensus. I still remember every street, area and the whole school of Bully in the back of my head just because of how small it was. I think we're already past devs flaunting the fact that they made a city-sized map, and now we can go back to people actually being creative and putting as much as they can into smaller, more whole words.
There are definitely merits to larger maps though. I wouldn't have wanted a small map for spiderman or batman, it's so fun to just fly around in those games. And I'm not sure how a game like Horizon zero dawn would've done with a much smaller map
@@mentalpopcorn2304 Absolutely agreed. What kind of open worlds do you think we have more of though? The spidermans and horizon zero dawns or the bullys? That's what I initially meant. Games built around the premise where a small open world is what makes sense. Even Firewatch comes to mind, as I thoroughly enjoyed the exploration factor in it, especially with the minimap marker disabled. I enjoy RDR2's scale, but I also want smaller, focused worlds - if that makes sense.
Yea like the other guy said they totally both have their place
I think that the best big open world game is Minecraft, it's just done so right
I think the technology has really gotten to the point where we can have things like more dense environments (think explorable buildings in open world games) because of the advancements in consoles with faster drive speeds.
A Short Hike was an extremely short experience, and yet one of the most satisfying games I've ever played. The smaller the scope, and the more linear, the more you can refine the experience!
Hands down one of the best open world gaming experiences I've had has been heavily modded skyrim. So many random encounters, added locations and (actually fun) sidequests, enemy patrols that would run into each other and start fights that you would come across in the middle of, huge battlegrounds full of bodies to loot and little clues to piece together what happened, etc etc etc. It was so fun that I actually stopped fast traveling entirely
You really hit the nail on the head with A Short Hike. Bigger games will always be impressive, but I'll forever treasure the time I spent with A Short Hike. It also helps for me that smaller games are more accessible to me since I don't always have a lot of time, but that also means it's a good recommendation to nearly everyone.
Do you want to hug me? Then I have to shatter your dreams: I am in a relationship with TWO females! They are also huge fans of me, YT Megastar AxxL! Please don't be too disappointed, dear nate
@@AxxLAfriku lies, no man who uses the term "female" is in a relationship
Geez alright I’ll get it no need to beg
@@AxxLAfriku cringe
I thought it sounded interesting until I saw those graphics 🤮
With a lot of the recent Ubisoft games, I just feel like too much effort were spent on making them big rather than filling them up, making me feel exhausted very soon and just want to rush to the end
Now that they're focusing more on free-to-play games and releasing less triple-A games, I wonder if they try to make each new AAA entry's open world to feel more dense and unique, or be stupid and double-down on making it feel larger and monotone.
Still, I'm cautiously optimistic about Far Cry 6, let's see what they'll reveal on Friday's livestream
The Division much
Recent?
Try Valhalla
I’ve played the beginning of AC Valhalla and from what I’ve heard when you get to England there’s a lot of stuff to do but jeeeesus, so far the map is absolutely empty
A good example I've not seen brought up is Beyond Good and Evil. The map is small but slowly opening it up over the course of the game with the hovercraft upgrades really solidified the pacing of exploring the map. Getting 100% in an open world game is usually just a chore but the BGaE and the games you mentioned never get to that stage like most AAA Games.
Yeah... You're right. The open world map was the hub and the PACING of being able to go to more areas within it was perfect... If you get the whole map full of the same stuff giving you the same stuff. But in beyond good and evil you had so many mechanics... Platforming, puzzles, minigames, photography, racing, travelling in the hovercraft was a sheer joy in all forms anyway AND everything looked interesting and sometimes was suddenly dangerous. And doing the aforementioned races etc. got you super necessary upgrades to progress the story itself... I love that game lol
I’m so happy people like you can express themselves on platforms like TH-cam. How do you find all these interesting subjects on video games no one ever thought of? I love your videos, keep going!
I’m pretty sure people have thought of these topics, he’s probably just willing to take that idea and make it entertaining to watch.
bruhh this vid idea has been done over and over
Play other games than just cod Fortnite and nba, and you’ll appreciate gaming more.
@@H.E.M. dont forget to smd
A short hike is a masterpiece. It's so memorable, heartwarming and charming. Really need more games like it.
Agreed 100%!
the ending made me cry for no reason, just flying over that small island and going back home... so good
Less filler. Quality over quantity.
A lesson we definitely forgot and lost in the last decades.
Quality and quantity tho
@@shizukousapostle1stapostle710 but if you can't choose? You can't always have quality AND quantity without sacrificing _something_
@@mr9293 you can if you are a good writer and japanese 😂
@@aligmal5031 The results will probably be a 5+ years of development. And it did happen a few times with Final Fantasy games.
@@Deliveredmean42 yes, thats what makes it a triple a title. TBH, small or big games doesn't matter to me, I see a game, learn how it works, I play.
Horizon Zero Dawn is quite unique for me, it's stupidly surprisingly big even without Frozen wilds, but there's just something that makes me want to kill these machines lol. I don't think it's repetition, it's has to do more with, attention span
I believe that this feeling of "big open world" comes from the density of the world (most big open worlds being quite empty) and, as you mentionned, the variety of stuff you can find. A short hike has plenty of meticulously crafted unique interaction with the environment and the characters and it increase the credibility of the world, whereas doing the same action over and over again in different spot break this immersion (and thus the engagement) in big open worlds. Of course, a game like A short hike can't be scaled to an AAA level, but it might not be the right path to follow for video games...
One reason why LoZ: Breath of the Wild did well in feeling small and big at the same time is that the devs said they based the map of the game off of a Japanese city (I can't remember which one), and so all the important landmarks were evenly spaced, like in real life. That way you ended up feeling like you spent time but not too much time exploring, but you accomplished what you wanted to. I am not saying it is anywhere near perfect, but the devs seemed to do a decent job.
I once heard a simile about pies that described this. When you only have a set amount of ingredients, a smaller pie stuffed with flavor is better than a large pie that’s mostly crust.
It's a real shame you didn't talk about Subnautica or even it's recent sequel, Below Zero. Those games both have a small (4 km square) map but with the exploration and creatures and movement along the y axis as well as the x and z, these games feel so much bigger than they really are. The theme of always needing to go deeper added so much complexity to the playable area and I always knew that if I went off in any direction, I would find something new or get killed by some big fish.
Great video as always Raz!
They have been the first games that came into my mind as well. 🤝
I felt the same way. I think part of that is because the ocean's "fog" obscured so much of what was around you, you were never sure of what might be right in front of you or next to you, and because the biomes all kind of look the same, you're constantly asking yourself "have I been here before?" unless there are very specific landmarks. It's almost a shame in that regard, because you may miss all sorts of cool parts of the game that you are never incentivized to go looking for, like the meteor crater or just about anything out in the Dunes; even the Sea Treader's Path can be completely overlooked. Interestingly, I found that using a map mod incentivized me to go exploring these areas, because I wanted to see that I'd been everywhere and explored everything.
However, at the same time, I can see the value in actually making it easy for players to get lost; this was my experience with another great open world game I played, called Miasmata. It's set on an island where you have to explore and look for plants, but because the terrain obscures so much of what's around you, (and because there's a monster always chasing you off the trail), it's easy to get lost. It does have a map function, but it's the most interesting one I've ever seen, because you have to physically triangulate your position by sighting landmarks and filling it in as you go. That made it feel like I was really exploring, and ignoring some tedious moments, I had a blast playing and also had that feeling of wishing it wasn't over when I finished.
A game world size needs to be contextualised in terms of the speed of travel as well. And you forget the verticality that adds a lot to the area to explore. So the effective world size ain't that small
Breath of the Wild didn’t start to even slightly feel small until about 500 hours in because the main story is completely open and takes place in the far reaches of its giant map. I personally don’t believe that it falls under this very unfortunate umbrella that other AAA open-world games do fall under. Another weird beast is the game that was once easily classified as an indie, Minecraft, but it does however actually end up falling under the proverbial umbrella. This is because...well, it’s massive, seeing as the world literally never ends, but this means that players will probably never leave a small area that they eventually find, like, and end up calling home due to not having any incentive to explore much farther. If you have access to all of the necessary materials to your self-made projects in your minuscule cut-out of the world, than you will likely never leave unless you want to find a Woodland Mansion or something. But yeah. These are anomalies. It’s just like grammar: it can never stay within its own rules.
Edit: This comment has honestly instigated some really interesting replies! I didn’t realize how many people felt that Breath of the Wild didn’t include enough in its world to feel wholly satisfying, and how many didn’t enjoy the combat loop of finding and using powerful weapons in what I thought to be exciting and skillful battles. I mean, sometimes I’ll load up the game just to beat the crap out of a Lynel for no reason whatsoever besides...just kinda wanting to. I have no hard feelings whatsoever, people have different opinions and I can totally accept that. I just think that it’s kind of funny that we’re already entering the age of Breath of the Wild’s life where everyone remembers the bad more than the good. Zeldas go through this in cycles. For instance, go back 2 or 3 years and ask someone if they like Twilight Princess, and you will be met with, “Ugh, it’s fine, but I don’t know...it’s just not the best one...” Nowadays, the majority of fans have admitted that it is in their top 3. No joke. Windwaker experienced this, Ocarina had a spell of time with it, and Skyward Sword will likely be leaving it in the next 2 or 3 years. It’s weird. (I also think it’s funny that only one person was more worried about my Minecraft talk than my Breath of the Wild talk. I realized that I didn’t clarify: I love Minecraft and have most certainly put at least 1000 hours into it across all of the platforms that I’ve played on. Just wanted to get that out there real quick.)
The incentive in Minecraft is often to get new resources that you can’t get in the biome you’re in, but when you get past that then yeah. I see your point either way
I'm playing BotW again, but modded and I'm realizing how empty the world is. I'm collecting more korok seeds, but I'm more focused on the next destination, and I'm getting bored in between.
@@thekidfromcanada that's only true because you've probably seen the map a million times and know everything. anything gets boring with enough repetition
@@thekidfromcanada That may very well be the problem. The world is littered with shrines and monsters to fight, so if you’re just going for koroks and the occasional shrine then that might be the source of the problem. Another thing that helped me on subsequent playthroughs (believe me, I felt the same thing, this isn’t blind defense...or at least I hope it’s not) was trying to keep my fast traveling to a minimum. The world is really beautiful and detailed with structures and ruins both natural and man-made, and sometimes riding along the roads on a horse in the same place that you once tread for the first time again is just as magical now that you can just sightsee.
On the contrary, take Terraria for example.
This game has a world with well defined borders and a finite size which you can easily walk through in a couple of minutes.
But the sheer amount of content in it makes you go back to previous locations you already explored, thus "expanding" the uses of those spaces and giving more meaning to each one.
A Short Hike and Alba felt like breath of fresh air. A Short Hike specifically made me tear up. And even with pretty short average runtime, I spent a day just exploring the whole map and finishing all the side quests. Another game I played was Carto, and despite its tiling gameplay mechanics, I could honestly see how the whole map looks.
Maybe I'm a masochist, but I honestly love larger games. I realise that it's certainly not everyone's cup of tea, but the long journeys and extended travel time in games like RDR2 is part of the reason that I love it. There's something about that kind of friction towards being wherever you want, that I just love.
I realise that it's not for everyone, but I do want to see it done right more often.
Density of unique activities, great draw distance and distinct variety of biomes with lasting impact are the biggest contributors to that feeling imo
Yes.
Which is why the games he mentioned make no sense..... as those games are the best examples of how density is key. Witcher 3 was a CRQZY good example of that.
Rewards for exploration is big too. Not all games have to reward you for it, but when they do if I find a consumable at the end of some far off exploration, I'm left pretty disappointed. Give me weapons, armor, or even powerups. Just something that actually incentivizes exploration, and not some consumable I'll probably never end up using.
@@mentalpopcorn2304 Absolutely agree, it's a major aspect in maintaining a handcrafted experience and preventing both the world and the exploration of it feeling repetitive
Subnautica and Outer wilds showed to me that you don't need exploration to be extrinsically rewarded with gear or anything. Instead, sating your curiosity and wanting to learn things about the environment can be much more satisfying than any item. When the game is designed with focus on intrinsic rewards for exploration instead, the results can be incredible. Though I imagine much harder to pull off
“I feel thin, sort of stretched... like butter scraped over too much bread.”
To me the first two Gothic Games are perfect examples for great open worlds that are still, after years of playing, so vivid in my head...
I feel this so much. in recent years especially I’ve grown to feel tired by the largest open worlds. When I was younger I remember wanting these games to be endless, but at a certain point I just started to wish that all games in general were significantly smaller, because most modern open worlds are just empty space between repetitive shoot’em’ups
So this just made me realize why I as an "older" gamer don't feel engaged in the same way as I used to do when I was younger.
It comes down to bloat and repetitiveness that is laid out here.
This will help me pick games moving forward that might spark that desire to explore again instead of just chasing far away goals.
Try Yakuza series small map but immensely dense and amazing side characters
Try Deus Ex : Mankind Divided. Small size but plenty to find and plenty of quest to do.
My best experiences with games have always been in those first few hours, when I'm not sure where the game wants to take me, and everything is new and unique. The possibilities seem endless, and the mystery fuels my sense of exploration. Sadly, the AAA industry seems to have gotten it all backwards, with its focus on more content, more hours, more mechanics. This path inevitably ends in repetitiveness, blandness, and not to mention crunch. I always find it puzzling when I see small indie devs wanting to create their own massive open world games... A game being short and to the point is an advantage, just like you said. Great video as always Raz :)
for me it's the time just after the start as that when the more unique stuff is and the very end as it is exiting
i remember when starting genshin the map felt so huge, now it just feels empty, haven't played in like 5 months lmao
I think intimacy is a good indicator for how big a game feels. Most Yakuza games are just a couple of blocks big but they feel huge because everything you come across feels unique and varied, and a lot of it can be interacted with in different ways (like eating food, karaoke, playing games, claw machines etc). Not to mention how charming those games are.
This is a fantastic video. I’m so glad TH-camrs like you exist to help me learn as a game dev. I’d say my personal takeaway is that the more ways you can interact with a space, no matter how small, increases one’s understanding and relationship with that space, and therefore makes it *feel* big. It’s about the idea of it in your head. Size is only one small, *small* factor. What can you do in that world? What does each region of that world mean ecologically, story wise, visually? Wouldn’t it be cool if the same region could be used for a thousand different things?
I refer to games like RuneScape for this. The world map is small compared to other MMOs, but each town and continent has been so developed over the years that any tile could be important to a quest, the spot of a hidden clue scroll, the location of a minigame, somewhere where an interesting NPC with funny dialogue is, or just a general place where people hangout! It’s a world with so much personality and love put into it over decades, and it feels like genuine magic.
Thanks Razbuten for this realization I’ve come to. You’re awesome!
I’ve been playing the Shadow of the Colossus (for the first time!) on my PS2 recently and although the map is pretty big considering the time it was made, it’s tiny when compared to more modern games. Yet, it feels HUGE and expansive despite not being littered with enemies to kill and bases to capture. Everything about it feels like an adventure. Loving it.
DEFINITELY a unique game.
The open world is literally empty yet it feels full..
It also benefits a lot that it depends on the player to explore and find the Colossi rather than having a minimap and a waypoint to follow.
It's Mindblowing how much quality they achieved depsite being limited by the PS2's processing power.. I remember reading it was one of the games which used the systems potential to the fullest.
Super interesting! I haven't played many small titles but I have similar feelings about super big games. Skyrim and BOTW have been some of my favorite games, so I was super excited to play Assassin's Creed Odyssey when I got it (and I had never played an assassin's Creed game before). Within the first minutes of gameplay, I was overwhelmed and unhappy with how crowded and large the world was, and I didn't play more than an hour of the game. The reasons you talked about here make that make sense
If you've never played AC before, please please please start with the Ezio trilogy (II, Brotherhood, and Revelations). They have a bit of the pointless side quest thing ("collect 100 feathers for a 5-second cutscene and a cape that makes everyone hate you!") but by and large it's story driven and the side quests are worth it.
Except the Bonfire of the Vanities. Catarina, I love you, but that was boring as hell.
I felt the same way about Odessey. I probably spent the same amount of time in Zelda BoTW and ACO, and I didn't even scratch the surface of everything I could do in ACO, but BoTW was so much more fun to explore that it felt short, while ACO felt gruelling.
I think the difference with BoTW was that even 60 hours in, exploring still lead to things that felt unique. Korok seeds and stone Talus's were no longer exciting, but I could still find smugglers hideouts or golf courses that were like nothing I had seen before. In ACO I never finished exploring the map, but I felt like I had because anything "new" was so similar to what I had already seen.
All that's to say, size doesn't matter as much as density. I don't think small maps are better than big maps, but it's easier to fill a small map with unique experiences than it is for a big map. BoTW is just a rare example of a big map that still manages to make everywhere in the world unique
@@Fallowsthorn I’m in an identical position: never played AC games, tried Odyssey, quickly found it chorelike and overwhelmingly big. Aesthetic makes a big difference to me - would the Egyptian one not be a good choice if I were to try a different one?
@@EmperorsNewWardrobe I unfortunately have no idea - my CPU actually isn't good enough to run ACO. The latest one I've played is Black Flag, and even then I've never finished it because I hate the ship combat and they stopped really having a modern story parallel. 3 wasn't as good as Ezio (Connor you're sweet but you have the emotional range of a brick), but it finishes out Desmond's storyline so it's worth it. After that they just couldn't put the cash cow out to pasture like they should've.
@@Fallowsthorn I might try out one of those other AC games some day. I specifically got odyssey because I was interested in playing the biggest open world games possible (I thought that's what I wanted). But after playing games like The Last Of Us, I think a more linear story driven game might be better after all
this video echoes something i've been feeling for a while. ideally, we can see a shift in the industry, even the AAA side. i don't want an infinitely large but shallow game i could *live* in, i want something focused and meaningful i can be *alive* in.
I think part of it for me is in bigger worlds i tend to fast travel to get to my objectives faster but it also makes the world feel much smaller
Ahh, gimme that sweet Short Hike soundtrack!
Journey does all of these things. The game is too short to get bored by the movement and the addition of gliding makes traveling across the map incredibly enjoyable, and the world feels absolutely massive in some sections. I love Journey so much.
I'm always happy seeing someone talk about journey, that game is such a masterpiece I wish I lost my memories to experience it again
@Paulo Victor
I agree, it's such a perfect experience.
I loved a short hike but I really did not like Journey, the character movement is so awkward and sluggish. I think Journey is a bit more divisive that people realise. I liked Gris a lot though, so it's not the genre that I dislike.
I played it for the first time last year after countless PWL podcast shout outs and references. Coming with big expectations in some areas and still managed to exceed all of them. I cried at the end because i experienced such beatiful and inmersive experience. It had been a long time since i enjoyed a game all the time. My best gaming experience of that year and one of the best i ever had.
10:12 "Size doesn't matter, it's how you use it."
"Size doesn't matter, it's how you use it" - Razbuten
Well, I'm all set.
Poor Raz says 'lately I've been playing a lot of open world games' but really he's been subjecting himself to a slow wrenching pain playing ALL the bloated open world games for YEARS so we don't have to.
This is it devs, pack it up, give me more focused games that are content dense, minus the endless wastelands. Killer vid as always
Jeez blame the publishers and management not the devs.
I really like the Yakuza Franchise due to their decision to focus on a smaller but more packed map
Getting lost in side activities in Yakuza just feels so good. And turning the game on after a long a time and casually walking through it's streets feels a lot like coming home
5:48 I think that that, in the case of The Pathless, might be even more of an achievement than most people will probably realize.
Something I've recently become painfully aware of, working on a project of my own, is just how difficult it is to design a level for a game in which the player can move at such high speeds.
It is incredibly hard to find a balance between your level spaces becoming far too large in order to accomodate for the speed of the player or far too small for that instead in order to actually keep the level space reasonably sized and not a vast stretch of emptiness.
Maybe it would be easier to adjust the speed you move at instead of the size that the levels are.
a lot of it just comes from the feel of being fast. means animations, blur, soundtrack and more. curious tho, how far are you with your project?
@@ButlersTraining Well I was gonna restart on it but my pc died 4 months ago and i havent been able to work on it since.
So unfortunately, not very.
One of my favorite game worlds in recent years is the Oldest House in Control, and I think part of what makes that world work so well is you have no sense how big it could be. Most open-world games are cramming entire countries into a space the size of a city, but The Oldest House is ostensibly one building yet takes up that same amount of space. That and the unique setpieces keeps it from feeling tedious despite being a bigger game.
0:11 "The two obviously can coexist..."
*Shows Breath of the Wild*
Never change, Raz
Edit: Holy crap I did not expect this many replies
ah..i see
Yep Botw both feels gigantic and is in fact, fucking gigantic. But what I like the most about it is just as he said, it's not about just following a marker, you can actually explore and become familiar with it's landmarks. Rather than "generic forest, generic mountains" repeat.
@@jorgemtzb9359 botw feels like exploring a place you know a little bit. And you know home is just around the corner.
Big open world story games (rdr2 Tsushima etc) is like going on a business trip. You have a mission. You do the mission. And in the time in between you take a selfie in the tokio tower before getting tired and going back
@@jorgemtzb9359 Those exact words. I could probably recognize where a random forest was just by looking at its surroundings.
I really feel the big difference is that the gameplay itself is centered around exploring large areas.
The ability to climb about anything and glide anywhere, I feel most open world games end up having very limited movement mechanics and you just end up walking the entire time.
Another thing is that Breath of the Wild doesn't simply doesn't tell you where to go, you actually have to do some exploring, even when you can see the point where you need to get to you still need to think on how to actually get there.
I feel most open world just have a space with little events spread around in it where all the actual gameplay happens rather than the gameplay in the world itself. You end up with this massive world functioning as a very pretty but time consuming level select screen.
The paper bag looking excitedly between the camera and Prison Break made me laugh way harder then I should have. I'm lucky my room is on the other end of the house..
One of my newest jams - discussions and analyses on game design. Happy to be here, and glad you make what you make.
For me outer wilds is the best example of a small open world being huge. Each planet has so much to see and explore even if they are very small
This man really talked about small worlds feeling big, and the changing of the world without mentioning outer wilds. How does he do it.
Because it would be the umpteenth time he mentioned outer wilds in a video. We've already heard about Outer Wilds, no need to repeat himself
@@moshimeshowu747 idem for short hike
@@stevenwier1783 except he hasnt made an analysis video on a short hike, has he?
@@moshimeshowu747 aii didn't realize you can only talk about something once and then it's banned.
He probable wanted to diversify as he's talked about it a ton.
“When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure” - Goodharts law
what the
@@EnderOksam I think they mean that AAA games are not getting better, they are getting bigger. And although sometimes bigger is better, sometimes it's just bloated.
@@thekidfromcanada what?
absolutely
@@EnderOksam leon?
I actually didnt feel as worn out by ghost of tsushima as i took a break right at the half way point. It helped me come back with a fresh outlook and allowed me to take my time without the whole thing getting monotonous.
I suppose the briefest way to describe how an open-world game feels big is when it is dense: filled with meaningful activities.
I have also occasionally struggled staying immersed in/excited about giant open world games. I recently played Horizon: Zero Dawn for the first time, and while I thought it was a fantastic game start-to-finish, the core loop did start to grow tiresome. I started checking off bits of the map less because I was excited to and more to satisfy that completionist itch.
But this makes me think about why I never felt this way with Breath of the Wild. It did the big open world in a way that consistently felt epic in scope without ever feeling...tiresome. I think this is because it wasn't saturated with dozens of waypoints for dozens of different types of collectibles/sidequests. Initial exploration is Go to new region -> Find the tower to unlock the map -> self-select interesting waypoints and complete quests -> repeat.
Korok seeds and shrines litter the world, sure, but they remain an easily accessible way to break up the pace on the player's terms. Don't feel like doing a shrine? Don't have to. Not to mention that the world is dense enough to remain interesting almost anywhere you go. It's a thing you consistently interact with, unlike many open world games where environments are *just* setting/drapery.
I love BotW so much
Hmm. With both of my playthrought combined, I probably spent about 75 hours in BOTW, so I guess the game did hold my interest for a long time, but by the end of my playthroughts I felt exhausted and had enought of the game.
I think it's because botw doesn't encourage you to complete it despite being filled with (repeated) content. Korok seeds only help you up to a point, and the health upgrades become more and more negligible as you complete more shrines. They don't put every incomplete objective on the map and instead encourage you to only explore every area just as much as you want until you're done with it. There's also no grinding for materials; you can get good equipment after grinding, but you already get enough from the story and you get more weapons as you fight, making the break/get weapon/use weapon loop not as involved as the typical farm for materials or xp/get better equipment or upgrade/use your greater power to farm more. It doesn't make you ever feel too weak or too strong at any point (other than the very beginning), so you get to be stuck in the gameplay loop just as much as you want.
Thats fair. For me Horizon: Zero Dawn is my favourite game. Ive played it several times and each time i never get bored. Even after tha 50th hour i still find myself running of looking for machines to kill and loot to collect. It has an amazing story that helps too! For me guerrilla games has pretty much proven they are master Open world makers (again for me) and i cant wait for Horizon: Forbidden west and any other future open worlds they have New IP or still Horizon.
i completely agree! i played horizon zero dawn too and oh my gosh, it was my first game and the wonder and detail as well as biomes n all- it was so insane- in contrast something huge like assassins creed oddysey which is massive, it felt so big that it was.. empty? everything was copy pasted and repeated almost so i get ur pov
the conflict part you talk about is perfectly represented in ghost of tsushima with the mongols. revisiting the freed areas laster, which I constantly did for sidequests, is really rewarding because it is so peaceful
How have you never been in my recommended section? This content is exactly what I need.
ey! just subbed to you today. I enjoy your work!
@@razbuten Haha, I saw your comment today had gotten a few likes so I just clicked your profile on a whim! Really glad I did!
You should play subnautica. Feels like and endless world by taking advantage of all 3 dimensions. Ultimately the maps are small but you can explore for days worth of gamplay without finding everything.
Wooo! I just spent my morning marathoning some of your older videos for nostalgia and I get treated to a new upload! Love your stuff, Raz
For me, sometimes its exhausting when I get so many sidequests. Its hard for me to just ignore them and not have to do every single one when I just want to progress the story. Sometimes I just stop playing the game all together when that happens cause I get bored, even if its technically my fault that it happens. Its just that fear of missing out, you know
I can get behind this. I am not a huge gamer like you, but I loved the movement in Assassin's Creed more than Skyrim just because I could use the vertical dimension to explore and discover instead of just the horizontal one. I absolutely love climbing things/flying in games. It makes the experience so much more enjoyable.
So happy you spotlighted A Short Hike - more people need to play that game!!!! One of my absolute favorites.
On point, as always. I do absolutely love The Witcher 3, but I do understand your feelings towards open world games. Maybe I like because I decided to listen to the good man Mark Brown and played it without any waypoint on the screen, the only HUD element I left was my life bar; and because I love the characters and that world and how well written it is. Most other open world games though... I haven't been able to enjoy any Assassin's Creed after Black Flag, and even it felt off. Those games are usually just pretty; their graphics are very good, but they lack anything interesting to do for more than half an hour. It's always the same tasks repeated for 50 hours, with a generic story, generic dialog... you get the point. I really hope we can see more of those smaller open worlds in the future, games need to relearn to not overstay their welcome.
I did the same. Suddenly I start recognizing places and paths, also got lost a lot more. If only the signs worked, sigh. If I could read a sign and know which direction is what that would help.
Well Assassin’s Creed 4 does NOT have a “generic story” or “generic dialogue” far from it as it’s arguably the best assassins creed story in of itself.
It’s a fantastic game with a amazing emotional story!
Witcher 3 for me had the problem that in order to work without map and waypoints, the Quests would have to have included a broad description of where to go, which in 90% of the cases is not how they did it. If the NPC tells me to go to Village X and nothing more, that Quest is pretty much impossible to follow if neither the Quest giver nor any other NPC has any option to tell me where Village X is.
Gothic 1 and 2 do this so much better, because the whole game is designed around the fact that you have neither waypoints nor map (at least initially for the latter). Incidentally, both are great examples for small worlds that feel big.
@@Gadget-Walkmen Far from it, but each to their own, I guess. I played it back when I was 16 or 17, so it's been a while and I don't really remember much of it. I do remember it was then when the story began to take a backseat in the series, to instead serve as only a vague excuse for anything happening in the game, unlike the first ones. Other than sailing through the ocean, I don't really remember anything fun about the game at all.
@@RegularNobodyII not seeing how it’s “far from it”being it was brilliantly done in writing and historical context/aesthetics.
A Short Hike was spectacular. It was the most satisfying game I played that year. After I beat it, it was hard to believe I only played it for 4 hours, it felt much longer to me
I'm surprised you didn't mention The Witness. Sure, it isn't a vast open world like Skyrim, but there is a lot of thought about how to make it feel big, yet everything is close, and everything is close, but not cramped, and walking from place to place is always interesting, and lends to new discoveries.
I can 100% relate to this! Some of my all-time favorites have been small indie games I could complete in a few, meaningfully-spent hours.
I felt that while playing The Witness
oh hell yes! that game has one of the best open worlds ever imho
+
I'm so glad every time i see someone mentioning A Short Hike, it's such a lovely game!
exploration-based games are one of my favorite things to play, but it there has to be a reason to explore. whether that's learning more about the world, being rewarded with secrets, or discovering new things. so many of these bigger "open world" games are so empty, that it feels like walking thru an abandoned parking. big, empty, and not worth the effort.
This reminded me of how much I enjoyed Pikmin 3 back when it first came out. It wasn't open world, but it had such a variety of locals with so much interesting stuff to interact with in what felt like manageable sized chunks that I couldn't help myself from 100%ing the game in 8 hour of a straight playthrough. I'd never done that before then and it felt amazing to have a game basically designed around a bunch of small, engaging activities without having to trek for an hour to get to do just one thing. Maybe it just fits my desire for instant gratification, but, to me, that's what games should be... if they aren't epics. Epics can choose to be that constant action or not, but I still prefer when they're more dense during the average gameplay moment, outside of daunting scenes
this is a really well done video, but i've never related to one of your videos less. to me open world games are the bigger, the better. small open worlds make me feel cheated. like it's not truly open world because it feels more like a single open space than an actual world. for me it's oftentimes less about what there is to do and more of what there is to see. i love exploring the landscape, climbing cliffs to look down at the world from, finding a pretty clearing in the forest, etc.. a great example is the witcher 3, which has such a stunning amount of detail in it, and even now, having finished the game multiple times, i still find new quests i haven't done before even though i thought i finished the game 100%. or i find a gravestone with an inscription related to a character and a piece of dialogue i encountered earlier. this is what makes the game feel so alive to me, and it has me so eager to keep exploring. and damn do i leave that game wanting more, wanting it to be longer even though it's already so huge. that's why i replay it so much.
i know this is just my experience, and different people look for different things, but my favourite "genre" (if you can even call it that) is these massive open world games that take dozens upon dozens of hours to complete. they feel to me like a friend i can come back to for a long time, and that always have something new to show me if i'm just willing to look.
I think the fixed camera does a lot to make A Short Hike feel bigger than it is, because it obscures how close a lot of areas actually are to each other. At the same time this produces fun little moments where you have been wandering for a while getting lost, but then you walk over the next ledge and realise you're right back at somewhere you know.
Sable is another great game along these lines. It's not nearly as tiny as A Short Hike, but every interaction and quest you'll have is totally unique, and the world is full of little nuances and discoveries
Catching up on some of your older stuff, love the videos! A great "small-open world" game is the newer Deus Ex games. Each mission, city, etc. feels like little worlds - great for exploration because when you go off the beaten path, you are rewarded with story and upgrades.
Grow Home and Grow Up are really REALLY great examples for this as well!!
I was feeling this way about 2 games I played recently but didn't have the words to describe it - thank you!
A Short Hike's resolution looks like it belongs on the DS... Somehow that sells me on it.
I have months planning and researching to create a my own youtube channel because like others I love the videogames and yesterday luckily I ran into to your channel, you already approach to the same ideas that I'm working on and this motivate me so much to created my own channel, thanks and keep up!
I totally understand this and agree in part - but for me, I love playing story-driven, massive open-world games. I wanted more from Red Dead, I didn't want to leave CyberPunk and I'm still playing AC Valhalla (now on the DLC) after 150 hours. For me, I don't need to finish a game right away. I can play it on and off over the course of a few months. When I have time to play, I can fire up X, Y or Z and delve back into that world.
I can see that, but I often felt i. those larger games, they can become a drag and almost a “commitment” in themselves.
@@midshipman8654 exactly, the main issue for me is that you can't just play it every now and then. This is because when you take an extended break from the game and return - you're often thrown out of the loop of what you were doing, where the story is progressing, maybe what loot you were going for or need next (especially if it's not mentioned in the game again).
You can counter that by playing more frequently but then that is when you're met with burnout of the title and the feeling that the game is dragging.
Of course that's just me and my feelings. I do appreciate longer titles but I've only just recently returned to gaming after not playing for 3 months DUE to playing back-to-back vast open world games.
Raz: uses the common trope of a bag over a head to hide his identity
Also Raz: you would probably never guess I'm a private person
Thank goodness more people are talking about Alba, one of my favorite experiences from last year. My wife and I loved finding all the animals and healing the earf
Amazing video. Love video essays that are so visual and actually make use of the medium of TH-cam.
Having played all these titles, this feeling is so spot on! I get so stuck in the big open worlds!
Every video is a masterpiece and I always can't wait for the next love the vids Raz :)
The witness's island felt absolutely massive to me. The land had an unprecedented depth- every single inch of it was relevant, detail and puzzles were hidden in every corner and every crack. Every new victory in the game was small, only opening up one tiny new spot to be in the island, and VERY frequently, delving into some corner of the island i had thought was complete already. I was floored by the magic of this game's world, and it surprised me with its tiny secret rooms revealed just behind such familiar walls over, and over, and over again.
i saw this video and so i decided to play a short hike and oh my god this video is just so right i havent stopped playing for like 2 days just flying and talking to people and racing with Avery or playing beachstickball or ridding around on the boat honking at people on the island i love it so much
Another game that has a excellent small open-world is „Ghost of a Tale“. The entire game is set in single castle plus a tiny bit of the surrounding area and yet I spent about 20 hours with the game. It’s kinda a stealth RPG and you have to find ways to traverse the caste unnoticed, so after a while you start to get really familiar with the castle layout and all its secret passages. Parts of it is still ingrained into my memory to this day.
Outer Wilds is another great example; feels way bigger to me than an endless ocean of planets in something like Elite Dangerous.
the doodle champion island games (the little google homepage game that they put out for the olympics) was actually a pretty great example of a small world feeling big and being fun all the way through. That thing an actual video game that they just put out for free!
Love your videos! Escpecially how you're able to capture exactly what you're feeling while playing games
These videos are the best part of my day
Me: Feeling down
Raz: Uploads
Me: Best day of the week! :D
Just started playing the witness, and I think it captures the same experience. Island may be small in the grand scheme of things, but it's so dense and full of twisty winding paths that it feels so immersive.
Great video as always. Loved the ending.
This hit me when I took a break from Skyrim to play Symphony of the Night and Metroid Prime.
I think Breath of the Wild’s biggest innovation was definitely putting interesting movement and combat tech above realism, to stand out from the GTAs and Witchers. I think when most players say ‘wow I wish this game was bigger,’ they mean ‘more chances to use this engaging core movement and environmental interaction.’
I do wish BotW had more civilization to use your movement tech on. I understand saving Hyrule Castle for a final treat, but if the ruins of town were slightly less obliterated, that structure could’ve factored into more dynamic gameplay. I believe this is one of the few places where Genshin Impact successfully iterated on BotW. There’s a sense of loneliness in abandoned, mostly intact structures, and exhilaration as you smash someone off the roof and dash over to finish them with a plunging attack before they can get back up. There’s a lot of interesting shape you can’t get from mountains and fields. I’d be curious to see a BotW-like in the style of GTA or Yakuza, where the entire gamespace is densely-connected urban architecture, navigated with juicy, gamey action.
This video really made me understand why I kept wanting to explore all of bowser's fury but not a game like genshin impact
Been a while me inspecting your content (I use inspect cuz your content made me feel beyond watching something) and I feel so well about it. It's such a great thing to see someone expresses his feelings about new/various aspects of a concept. It's such a good use of platform like youtube IMO. I always try to see other aspects of games and experiences and that's such a nice thing for you to share your side of these aspects and open new windows for people. Keep creating content be sure there will be people who supports you during your adventure here
I really like your video essays! I have seen so many of your videos at this point and the more I watch the more I feel like I agree with you in a lot of your opinions. Thank you for the effort your put in on all your videos!
I personally enjoy giant open world games like mmos. or the Assassin's Creed games. There is just something about them that really makes me enjoy them. One of my favorite games is God of War 4. It's not a true open world but after you're done with the game you have so much to do it may be the same things but that's what I enjoy about them. But this is just my opinion, everyone can have their own.
Well one thing that helps MMOs is the good MMOs always have something to do no matter where you go, always a quest to complete, or a player to meet, befriend, dual & quest with, plus MMOs can have giant open worlds of all kinds of varied landscapes, like say what you want about the current state of World of Warcraft but I think it nailed the open world landscape design with its numerous varied zones to explore
Those are some wonderful points, but as someone who does get immersed in large open worlds, I was a bit surprised by this take!
To me, Ghost of Tsushima didn't feel all that massive, but it felt very tight and well connected, with some areas having some very defined and recognizable traits. I ended up exploring most of the map and had a blast with it. It was guided exploration, as there are indeed tons of activities to take your attention as you explore, but I did explore for the sake of exploring, not for the admittedly still enjoyable rewards. And yet, Ghost is not that large of a game. I was impressed with its world's beauty and I found its size to be rather good, but not massive. Last year I picked up on the newer assassins creed trilogy, and those games blew me away in scale. Origins has all of Egypt, Oddyssey is literally all of ancient Greece, and Valhalla has most of Englad and some of Norway. These games are massive, and they include huge open stretches of land in which traversal and exploration feels like tourism. It really feels like you are stumbling into history as you explore, I remember my mind being blown when I stumbled into Thermopylae in Oddyssey, the library of Alexandria in Origins or 9th century London in Valhalla. The activities for you to do in these vast spaces are not always anything special, there are always some flavorful sidequests or events to encounter, but the appeal to me has always been to just explore. Yes it is still a ubisoft open world games where you climb towers to get a vantage view and play the same four minigames in every settlement, but when you look past that you find that these games have been made to be explored for intrinsic reasons, for the pleasure of exploring. Most of the amazing places I have seen in these games have some minor reward at the end of them, but they are rarely something you care too much about, they could never give you something that would justify the time investment without making in mandatory, so they go for trinkets instead, prioritizing player freedom. This reminds me of an old MMO PWI, it is some p2w mess today but a bit longer than a decade ago it was a mind blowing experience, and I vividly remember exploring its world with my best friend completely ignoring the intended gameplay loop. I remember losing my mind when they addes an entire new region to the map which you would get to by crossing through the SEA. Me and my friend, being low level scrubs, walked through hellish areas evading monsters just to get to it, and we had to swim through an ocean while watching out for monsters under the water to get to the new area. It was bonkers and I have never experienced the same again. But games like BOTW, the new AC trilogy, and RD2 have given me something rather similar. When an open world game has a gameplay loop I enjoy, I get really excited over the size of its world.
Thats it, thought I'd share by perspective on why I love the big worlds. Obviously they need to be enjoyable to explore for it to feel worth it and for that exploration to run on intrinsic motivation, but when it works it becomes something difficult to match. I am certain this preference, in my case, was born from older MMOs, but damn I do enjoy a good open world, and I like it to be vast. I like it when travel actually matters and I have to commit to making the journey somewhere new. I like it when the world has details that are not very interactive but serve to make the world feel as if it lives on regardless of you, and I like to mentally map out the places I like to traverse as if I were walking them for real.
Yeah....though I also often feel like the video, i also get what you're saying. I really mostly had this in Odyssey because I love ancient Greece and it was SO ALIVE. Just AMAZING. And the movement is pretty good, feels good, which sometimes is all you need - the distances really aren't 'realistic' they're fun to travel and littered with possible threats/rewards. And the most important bit I'd say: the story strongly motivated you to do stuff, go to places. Plus the additional 'uncovering the members of the evil pro-war conspiracy' mechanic - having to figure out where they are I thought was clever. Plays into the main plot, exploration and completionism. But I played botw for a couple of hours and quit.... It felt aimless. I wonder why....
The more content there is, the less I feel like engaging in it. So glad to hear you repeat that. There is a real problem with some games just overwhelming a player and making me feel like just dropping it right then and there. There are some games that I don't want to even start, despite having an interest in the gameplay/setting because I know the world is so massive. It's like some part of your brain knows it's just an enormous timesink and the payoff is the same as with a much shorter game, so because of the inefficiency I just don't want to bother with it. Plus most huge worlds get so boring to explore as the method of travel is often not fun and engaging. Small worlds are better to explore because player movement and interaction in that exploration is more well thought out and engaging.
I haven't played in a long time, but I have 400+ hours in skyrim and have never beaten it. Not even close. I ended up installing the frostfall mod (a temperature damage mod that takes into account location in tbe map, elevation, time of day, clothing worn, ect.) and set a rule for myself that I was only allowed to run during combat. This changes the game exponentially.
Suddenly quests took weeks (in-game) to complete, but more than that, the journey became the adventure. Spending days upon days, out on the trail, making sure my hatchet was sharp for chopping firewood, keeping an eye on the skies for snowstorms (brutal) and making sure that my tent was pitched with a blazing fire with a hot bowl of stew boiling over it well before nightfall became the game.
Arriving at a town was monumental, as it offered a much needed reprieve from the weather. There's nothing like stepping into an inn for the first time in a month and ordering a drink and sitting by a fire you didn't have to craft yourself. Not to mention an opportunity to mend your clothing and sharpen your weapons.
Skyrim has always felt huge, but with those mods, I knew there was absolutely no hope I'd ever explore everything on the map, and that was incredibly freeing.
If I saw something interesting on the trail, then great, but the ever-present, ongoing battle with the weather was more than enough to keep getting from point A to point B enthralling.