Looks like a great modification to a great idea. A few months ago, I started on my making of this downfeed device. I must admit my efforts didn't go quite as smooth as yours. It took me several tries just to get the end caps made. I lacked the proper cutting tools to make the grooves for the O rings, but finally found them on Mc Masters, along with the Heim devices. In my case, I drilled a 1/8 in hole through the center of set screw that controls to hydraulic oil. I followed Jason's suggestion and filed an X across the end of the screw to prevent to ball from blocking the return oil. Thanks to your video and those great photos with information from the magazine you sent. I ordered a back issue of that article and it took 21 days for it to arrive. The end result is, that the band saw downfeed works great. I see now, why you were so excited when yours worked. I think I screamed a little louder when mine worked, which caused my wife to rush out to the garage to see what the problem was. I just had to demonstrate my success to her a few times over. Her response was "that's nice honey, now are you coming in out of that cold garage" : ) . While your new idea looks great, I don't think I am going to mess with success. I am no machinist by any stretch of the imagination, however I do try to play one on TH-cam ;) . PS, I ended up making three of the locking nuts for the quick change tool post holder. With the third one, I counter bored the nut for the handle to give it a more professional look. Thanks again....Ken
I finished this project on my saw today. Works great. When I saw the $28.00 price on the 1/4 turn valve I went with another needle valve instead and It works as it should. Thanks for the video. It helped a lot. B.P.
Them additions are well worth it. I really like to make one for my saw, i can really see the benefit in this. Great job Thanks for taking us on the ride with you.
Great improvement. I like your indexing technique with dial on the collet chuck and using the spring loaded tapping guide. Thanks for making this video. Thank you, Paul
Very nice improvement. I am hatching an idea that a small reservoir on a angle iron stand up by the pivot could hold a quart of cutting fluid and the needle valve could meter a slow drip onto the blade. I am very impressed with these saws and they only get better with a few improvements. I got one twenty five years ago and have never regretted it for a moment. Merry Xmas. Doug
single flare is good enough for this but a double flare is best when ever possible in my opinion, another great job, you're right about the quality of parts going south even from name brands
Some of the work you do is out of frame view of the camera, not a big deal but if you mark on the table you’re working on the frame view of the camera for your own reference and work within that frame the viewer experience will be enhanced as we follow along. Thanks for posting.
Nice! Those little valve are a pain in the ass with their rubber packing. If you can change that out with graphite packing(not the crap they "call" graphite at the box stores, I mean the real stuff), the valve won't bounce back when you let go of it. Not a big deal, but would make fine adjustments much easier. Really like that indexing method. though I wanted to see you turn down the inner portion to leave an indexed band around the perimeter. Yeah, I know. I'm nit picking. Super work on this mod! Keep up the great work!
Greg, The additions will really work out well. Thanks for sharing your work. ... It's a sad state of affairs when companies put their bottom line ahead of quality. I guess good old American know-how and quality are things of the past, never to return. The "over-seas" companies place quantity over quality. Sad! Have a good one. Have fun with your improved saw! Dave
+Swarf Rat Yup. I've noticed fittings of any type have been getting sucky lately. Real loose and those swivle nuts I showed have been having malformed flares.
the break off tab on your outlet is used for other ways too..most common is to use seperate circuits ( from Breaker panel ) to give you a better chance of not plugging two devices in at once.... your use is another ..to switch the outlet seperately from somewhere... i usually just use a plier to twist it off quickly...a few back and forthes to weaken it and twist it off...or twist off first try..lol
if you increase the angle and length of the needle chamfer, you will increase your flow control dramatically. right now the low angle of your needle chamfer is like opening a flood gate. just an idea for ya, great video
Notwithstanding your fine efforts in creating this video and not detracting from your description and showing your methods, the nett result of this hydraulic cylinder is limited. The best feature is the ability to "lock" the bandsaw blade in a position to allow cut length measurement. The needle valve will (in general) do one of two things slow the descent too much to make cutting less efficient or increase the descent to the point where the blade rests on the material and gravity takes over (the weight of the saw presses the blade on the material) effectively eliminating the hydraulic cylinder. IF the device "could" improve the cut rate, then the needle valve would require regular adjustments to suit the material being cut. The descent through a 1" bar is different to the descent through a 3" bar is different through a 2" square tube. Using gravity as the descent control automatically allows the most efficient cut rate through each of these materials. Manipulating two or more controls to "glide" the blade down to the work (as per another comment) may certainly look cool, it's not as efficient as placing the running blade on the material and letting it do its job. Please keep in mind, that this is NOT a criticism of your work or the intended result, it is only meant to outline the minimum benefits of many dollars and much time expended for negligible gain. Thank you for your efforts, I can see from the many comments it has been very helpful to others :-) Kind regards Peter
ZenMinus I get what you're saying. Only thing is that unlike say anpowered hacksaw where the swing arm is so light that there are actual weights you can move to put pressure on the blade and there is a mechanical lift at the end of stroke, these bandsaws have the opposite problem. The swing arm is so heavy that if it didn't have any mechanism to resist gravity then the blade would just dig in and bind either stopping the motor or slipping the belt. The beauty of the cylinder as compared to the spring that was originally equipped is that the cylinder allows for a constant rate of decent and.pressure on the blade. The spring was variable depending on where it was in it's travel so you could set it to cut fine at first but later in it's travel it would put too much pressure on the.blade causing.it to bind.
Mine ended up getting made from an old air ram i had and i made the valve block. It has the ball valve shut off , a pre set slow feed needle and a lever type needle to run the blade down to the work fast . I open the ball valve then turn the lever on the fast feed about a quarter tun and the blade glides down to the work piece when it gets close i shut the lever on the fast feed and it is now in cut mode . If i really want to cut something fast i just crack the fast feed lever a little and it cuts faster but i have noticed the squareness of the cut suffers if i cut too fast . Your ideas gave me more ideas and i now have a much improved saw -thanks!
+ian bertenshaw Yeah there is kind of a sweet spot in the feed rate to get the squarest cut in the fastest time. I have a really nice quality blade so it's rigidity in the saw itself.
That is a really nice improvement. I see potential for a turning video on making a needle valve insert and needle with fine control for the range you need. Hoke valves, and Hoke blocks are used some industries for this task.
+Jason Polensky Yup. I looked into getting a nice valve, but the cost of a purpose built hydraulic type flow control is just way too much for what the project is.
My trick for knowing which way to wrap teflon tape is that if the tape were stationary and the thread was turning to wrap it, the thread should be turning in the same direction as you turn it to screw it into the mating part.
interesting. I never seen a copper washer used on flare on flare fittings. Never seen them sold or needed either. I would think you only need it for positioning/aligning the fittings by giving you some crush room.
+ww_big_al Yup it allows you to adjust the position of things like sight glasses and such for my work. It also ensures that both mating surfaces have contact with something all the way around. As you can see by the fittings I got there is potential for the whole flared surface not to engage on the brass parts. Not too much of an issue on something like say a water line, but becomes an issue when we use them to carry refrigerant in excess of 250 PSI
+Halligan142 Thanks for the response. This will be something I will have to remember. Never did refrigeration, so I wasn't aware of them. This is why I watch so many TH-cam videos. There is alway a nugget to learn from them. Nothing but crap bring on TV also helps :-) LOL
You could restrict the flow through the tube by pinching it down, or some other restriction method. Restrict it for the max speed you want when the valve is full open. That should give you more useable range on your speed valve
to improve the adjustment on the needle vale Try using more viscous hydraulic fluid to provide you more travel on the needle vale. The thicker fluid is more restrictive to flowing through the needle valve and so needs to be open further for the same flow rate. instead of the transmission oil that you used if you use a 85-90w gear oil it will need to have teh needle valve opened further for the same rate of lowering.
I have been watching your videos on this, I'm a welder, not a machinist.... I had no idea you could do so much on a lathe. only thing I have ever done is make some weld on barrel hinges...
The flat bar are jaw extensions for the built in vice. They go right up to the blade. The threaded rod is there so you can cut short pieces in the vice. Adjusting the rod will allow the jaws to close parallel on a short piece of stock.
Halligan142, thanks but I can’t visualize how that works? Got pics, using it? I just bought and rebuilt an old Ramco RS90 bandsaw, so any tips would be most appreciated.
Is it possible to commission a video? I had an idea for a way you could use an imperial thread dial with metric threads, but you need a carriage stop and I don't have one. The basic idea is that you get the carriage up against the stop, and then always engage the half nut on the same notch on the dial. In my head it works, but everything always works in my head.
if you want finer control make a new, smaller seat you can press into the existing needle valve housing and trim the existing needle to match. smaller diameter with a more gradual needle profile will get what you want. also it looks like the saw is still creeping with the 1/4 turn shut. a lot of those valves are directional and won't seal if put in backwards.(might put a plug in the port to make sure the cylinder/check isn't bypassing)
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I'm always surprised when videos like this get dislikes. Myself, I am impressed with the author's abilities and his willingness to share.
Looks like a great modification to a great idea. A few months ago, I started on my making of this downfeed device. I must admit my efforts didn't go quite as smooth as yours. It took me several tries just to get the end caps made. I lacked the proper cutting tools to make the grooves for the O rings, but finally found them on Mc Masters, along with the Heim devices. In my case, I drilled a 1/8 in hole through the center of set screw that controls to hydraulic oil. I followed Jason's suggestion and filed an X across the end of the screw to prevent to ball from blocking the return oil. Thanks to your video and those great photos with information from the magazine you sent. I ordered a back issue of that article and it took 21 days for it to arrive. The end result is, that the band saw downfeed works great. I see now, why you were so excited when yours worked. I think I screamed a little louder when mine worked, which caused my wife to rush out to the garage to see what the problem was. I just had to demonstrate my success to her a few times over. Her response was "that's nice honey, now are you coming in out of that cold garage" : ) . While your new idea looks great, I don't think I am going to mess with success. I am no machinist by any stretch of the imagination, however I do try to play one on TH-cam ;) . PS, I ended up making three of the locking nuts for the quick change tool post holder. With the third one, I counter bored the nut for the handle to give it a more professional look. Thanks again....Ken
+Kenneth Bartlett
Excellent! Glad you got everything going. Screw ups is how we learn :-) I know it sucks when you do, but you learn why you did.
That is a very nice addition to the saw. I have a saw just like that but I am probably too lazy to build the cylinder. Thanks for sharing.
Great tip about flaring tool handle used as lever. It is the tricks of the trade, any trade really, that I like learning about.
I finished this project on my saw today. Works great. When I saw the $28.00 price on the 1/4 turn valve I went with another needle valve instead and It works as it should.
Thanks for the video. It helped a lot.
B.P.
+BPG
Yeah contractor discount :-) I didn't pay that much.
Them additions are well worth it. I really like to make one for my saw, i can really see the benefit in this. Great job Thanks for taking us on the ride with you.
Great improvement. I like your indexing technique with dial on the collet chuck and using the spring loaded tapping guide. Thanks for making this video. Thank you, Paul
The flare tool demo is great. I've heard of them, but never seen one being used before. Thanks Greg.
Very nice improvement. I am hatching an idea that a small reservoir on a angle iron stand up by the pivot could hold a quart of cutting fluid and the needle valve could meter a slow drip onto the blade. I am very impressed with these saws and they only get better with a few improvements. I got one twenty five years ago and have never regretted it for a moment. Merry Xmas. Doug
single flare is good enough for this but a double flare is best when ever possible in my opinion, another great job, you're right about the quality of parts going south even from name brands
Some of the work you do is out of frame view of the camera, not a big deal but if you mark on the table you’re working on the frame view of the camera for your own reference and work within that frame the viewer experience will be enhanced as we follow along. Thanks for posting.
Nice! Those little valve are a pain in the ass with their rubber packing. If you can change that out with graphite packing(not the crap they "call" graphite at the box stores, I mean the real stuff), the valve won't bounce back when you let go of it. Not a big deal, but would make fine adjustments much easier. Really like that indexing method. though I wanted to see you turn down the inner portion to leave an indexed band around the perimeter. Yeah, I know. I'm nit picking. Super work on this mod! Keep up the great work!
Greg,
The additions will really work out well. Thanks for sharing your work. ... It's a sad state of affairs when companies put their bottom line ahead of quality. I guess good old American know-how and quality are things of the past, never to return. The "over-seas" companies place quantity over quality. Sad!
Have a good one. Have fun with your improved saw!
Dave
+Swarf Rat
Yup. I've noticed fittings of any type have been getting sucky lately. Real loose and those swivle nuts I showed have been having malformed flares.
Thanks for sharing Greg. Great updates to the project via youtubers.
the break off tab on your outlet is used for other ways too..most common is to use seperate circuits ( from Breaker panel ) to give you a better chance of not plugging two devices in at once.... your use is another ..to switch the outlet seperately from somewhere... i usually just use a plier to twist it off quickly...a few back and forthes to weaken it and twist it off...or twist off first try..lol
if you increase the angle and length of the needle chamfer, you will increase your flow control dramatically. right now the low angle of your needle chamfer is like opening a flood gate. just an idea for ya, great video
Notwithstanding your fine efforts in creating this video and not detracting from your description and showing your methods, the nett result of this hydraulic cylinder is limited. The best feature is the ability to "lock" the bandsaw blade in a position to allow cut length measurement. The needle valve will (in general) do one of two things slow the descent too much to make cutting less efficient or increase the descent to the point where the blade rests on the material and gravity takes over (the weight of the saw presses the blade on the material) effectively eliminating the hydraulic cylinder.
IF the device "could" improve the cut rate, then the needle valve would require regular adjustments to suit the material being cut. The descent through a 1" bar is different to the descent through a 3" bar is different through a 2" square tube. Using gravity as the descent control automatically allows the most efficient cut rate through each of these materials.
Manipulating two or more controls to "glide" the blade down to the work (as per another comment) may certainly look cool, it's not as efficient as placing the running blade on the material and letting it do its job.
Please keep in mind, that this is NOT a criticism of your work or the intended result, it is only meant to outline the minimum benefits of many dollars and much time expended for negligible gain.
Thank you for your efforts, I can see from the many comments it has been very helpful to others :-)
Kind regards
Peter
ZenMinus
I get what you're saying. Only thing is that unlike say anpowered hacksaw where the swing arm is so light that there are actual weights you can move to put pressure on the blade and there is a mechanical lift at the end of stroke, these bandsaws have the opposite problem. The swing arm is so heavy that if it didn't have any mechanism to resist gravity then the blade would just dig in and bind either stopping the motor or slipping the belt. The beauty of the cylinder as compared to the spring that was originally equipped is that the cylinder allows for a constant rate of decent and.pressure on the blade. The spring was variable depending on where it was in it's travel so you could set it to cut fine at first but later in it's travel it would put too much pressure on the.blade causing.it to bind.
Mine ended up getting made from an old air ram i had and i made the valve block.
It has the ball valve shut off , a pre set slow feed needle and a lever type needle to run the blade down to the work fast .
I open the ball valve then turn the lever on the fast feed about a quarter tun and the blade glides down to the work piece when it gets close i shut the lever on the fast feed and it is now in cut mode .
If i really want to cut something fast i just crack the fast feed lever a little and it cuts faster but i have noticed the squareness of the cut suffers if i cut too fast .
Your ideas gave me more ideas and i now have a much improved saw -thanks!
+ian bertenshaw
Yeah there is kind of a sweet spot in the feed rate to get the squarest cut in the fastest time. I have a really nice quality blade so it's rigidity in the saw itself.
Very nice to see implementation of viewer feedback. Only wish it had been my idea!
+Robert Hawtin
Next one :-)
Nice improvement Greg, thanks for sharing!
Nice piece of work, You inspired me to build one myself now..
That is a really nice improvement. I see potential for a turning video on making a needle valve insert and needle with fine control for the range you need. Hoke valves, and Hoke blocks are used some industries for this task.
+Jason Polensky
Yup. I looked into getting a nice valve, but the cost of a purpose built hydraulic type flow control is just way too much for what the project is.
That mod is fantastic. Can I use an old car shock absorver as housing and make the bypass for the valves only???
great work,thanks. how about using a second needle valve with indexed wheel instead of 1/4 turn valve for finer control?
Nice project.....Thank you for sharing.
My trick for knowing which way to wrap teflon tape is that if the tape were stationary and the thread was turning to wrap it, the thread should be turning in the same direction as you turn it to screw it into the mating part.
+Rob Mckennie
Yup I do similar. Thread pointed away from me wrap counter clockwise. Thread towards you clockwise.
+Halligan142 my secret is to use Teflon paste:-)
Nice work also looks like another use for a noga holder at 30.46
Thumbs up for some good flaring tips.
interesting. I never seen a copper washer used on flare on flare fittings. Never seen them sold or needed either. I would think you only need it for positioning/aligning the fittings by giving you some crush room.
+ww_big_al
Yup it allows you to adjust the position of things like sight glasses and such for my work. It also ensures that both mating surfaces have contact with something all the way around. As you can see by the fittings I got there is potential for the whole flared surface not to engage on the brass parts. Not too much of an issue on something like say a water line, but becomes an issue when we use them to carry refrigerant in excess of 250 PSI
+Halligan142
Thanks for the response. This will be something I will have to remember. Never did refrigeration, so I wasn't aware of them. This is why I watch so many TH-cam videos. There is alway a nugget to learn from them. Nothing but crap bring on TV also helps :-) LOL
thank you for sharing.
real nice job. keep up the great videos.
Gj Halligan keep up the good work pal.
Should add detents you your adjustment knob that indexes the valve position to the location needed for each material you'll be cutting.
You could restrict the flow through the tube by pinching it down, or some other restriction method. Restrict it for the max speed you want when the valve is full open. That should give you more useable range on your speed valve
to improve the adjustment on the needle vale Try using more viscous hydraulic fluid to provide you more travel on the needle vale. The thicker fluid is more restrictive to flowing through the needle valve and so needs to be open further for the same flow rate.
instead of the transmission oil that you used if you use a 85-90w gear oil it will need to have teh needle valve opened further for the same rate of lowering.
I have been watching your videos on this, I'm a welder, not a machinist.... I had no idea you could do so much on a lathe. only thing I have ever done is make some weld on barrel hinges...
Very versatile machine. As everyone puts it, it's a machine that can make itself.
Great modifications!
Love that handle
Nice work, thanks for sharing. May I ask what is the extra flat steel with the all thread mounted on your bandsaw for?
The flat bar are jaw extensions for the built in vice. They go right up to the blade. The threaded rod is there so you can cut short pieces in the vice. Adjusting the rod will allow the jaws to close parallel on a short piece of stock.
Halligan142, thanks but I can’t visualize how that works? Got pics, using it? I just bought and rebuilt an old Ramco RS90 bandsaw, so any tips would be most appreciated.
Is it possible to commission a video? I had an idea for a way you could use an imperial thread dial with metric threads, but you need a carriage stop and I don't have one. The basic idea is that you get the carriage up against the stop, and then always engage the half nut on the same notch on the dial. In my head it works, but everything always works in my head.
great tool work.
Nice job!
nice work .thanks for the video
Great video, thanks.
well done
Hey Greg, what if you crimp your copper pipe ( a LITTLE ) would that widen your flow rate?
+Dennis Skerb
It's possible. It'd take some experimenting to see,
Nice mods to the downfeed. I'm wondering what inserts and turning tools you are using in your lathe?
AR warner holders with CCMT 32.51 Seco carbide
Thank you.
job well done
if you want finer control make a new, smaller seat you can press into the existing needle valve housing and trim the existing needle to match. smaller diameter with a more gradual needle profile will get what you want. also it looks like the saw is still creeping with the 1/4 turn shut. a lot of those valves are directional and won't seal if put in backwards.(might put a plug in the port to make sure the cylinder/check isn't bypassing)
hi can you make me one .and how mush
What needle valve is that?
At least 18 pieces of flare please 21:49
Man you talk to much
So, go somewhere else. We won't miss you.