"A Very Pagan Christmas" (SHAMELESS REBUTTAL)

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 ธ.ค. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 349

  • @JustDee7
    @JustDee7 15 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +27

    I can’t tell you how many times when I was a neo pagan that I would watch these kinds of videos and believed them , thank you Jesus for opening my eyes ❤

    • @shamelesspopery
      @shamelesspopery  14 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +9

      Welcome home!

  • @FonkyMonk3359
    @FonkyMonk3359 21 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +127

    It really bothers me when people say "hey! Did you know that every single one of your holidays, practices, and religious beliefs don't come from your religion, but other religions that your religion condemns".

    • @BalthasarCarduelis
      @BalthasarCarduelis 21 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +21

      it shouldn't bother you. Compare it to the adolescent who knows better than his parents about everything and anything. If junior thinking he knows better than pops is bothersome, then pops is insecure.

    • @justinbeale5672
      @justinbeale5672 20 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +43

      @@BalthasarCarduelisit bothers pops because junior thinking he knows everything could hurt junior and pops cares about junior, it’s not because pops is insecure.

    • @BalthasarCarduelis
      @BalthasarCarduelis 20 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      @@justinbeale5672 In that case, just wait until Junior is bothered by the same thing with the Third, and by then pops won't be so bothered, amused more probably.

    • @iohannesfactotum
      @iohannesfactotum 20 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +9

      Yuletide is a rip off of Festivus

    • @geraldhill7547
      @geraldhill7547 20 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      It shouldn't bother you. God commanded to spread the Gospels. What better way than take over other peoples Holidays. You couldn't use the Jewish ones like Jesus did.

  • @DrChaunceyBlevins
    @DrChaunceyBlevins 19 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +70

    Nu-pagans will always refer to “Paganism” as an unbroken whole to give it some sort of power or validity, the same way they do Native American tribes, as if there was peace and unity among them and their beliefs were all basically the same.

    • @josephantony603
      @josephantony603 18 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +7

      The problem is even some Christians fall into the trap of calling Christmas pagan

    • @isaacrobson4192
      @isaacrobson4192 15 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +1

      They are though when you look deep enough. The differences are only cosmetic, the metaphysics remain the same, the archetypes remain the same, the view on the cosmos is largely the same

    • @fnsdjkovnsdkvn
      @fnsdjkovnsdkvn 14 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      To be fair that was Chesterton's assessment of them. There are only like 5 meaningfully distinct "kinds" of pagan and its not especially hard to imagine how some devolve or develop into each other. No reason to imagine if Rome was left alone and Christianity went to China we wouldn't have populations of Pythagoreans, Stoics, and Roman pagans today and look at them the way we do look at buddhists, Confucians, and Taoists.

    • @John-ng8fx
      @John-ng8fx 13 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      @@isaacrobson4192Wow, you mean the abstractions we extrapolated out of the collective body of pagan myths are the same? That’s crazy! It’s almost like that’s what abstractions are! Their religions are not the same. Not only do they vary dramatically by region, the ancient pagans themselves certainly would have told you they were not the same, they fought innumerable wars to assert the fact they were not the same. You’re equivalating in a similar manner to suggesting all governments are basically the same because they’re comprised of people, some corrupt and some just, that exercise power and authority over their populace, and do everything to maintain and expand their control. Welcome to the human condition, most things are similar, nothing is identical.

    • @John-ng8fx
      @John-ng8fx 13 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      @@fnsdjkovnsdkvnGeneral categories of religious and societal expression don’t preclude extreme individual differences or circumstances that starkly distinguish the peoples. Most wars were fought by people against very similar people over smaller differences than whose gods were true. The point he is making isn’t that there is no abstract, universal cohesion, but that the differences which separated their civilizations far outweighed the similarities that could unite them.

  • @jamestay2377
    @jamestay2377 21 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +99

    We should expect Pagan Easter next year. Joe has gifted us a Pagan Halloween and a Pagan Christmas. All we need left is Easter.

    • @laurisjones
      @laurisjones 21 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +15

      He already hinted, pagan origins of inauguration day!

    • @supernerd8067
      @supernerd8067 20 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +13

      If he does, Joe will likely rebut the idea Easter is actually a celebration of Ishtar, a pagan deity or holiday because they sound similar.
      SPOILERS: That argument only works in English. Easter is called Pascha in other languages (for the Paschal Mystery of Christ).
      P.S.: Whenever I hear Ishtar, I think of Marik Ishtar from YGOtAS.😂

    • @ji8044
      @ji8044 20 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +1

      The idea of death and rebirth are much, much older than the Bible.

    • @michaelbeauchamp22
      @michaelbeauchamp22 20 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +9

      @@ji8044 And? How does that discredit Pascha?

    • @StringofPearls55
      @StringofPearls55 19 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +1

      ​@@ji8044 Christianity is older than the bible too.

  • @harrygarris6921
    @harrygarris6921 20 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +68

    None of these critics ever seem to be informed enough to realize that the Nativity was originally celebrated on January 6th, and was moved to December 25th not to supplant some pagan holiday but because the the council of Nicea set the date for the feast of the annunciation to March 25th. The date of the birth of Christ is celebrated when it is because it's exactly 9 months after the date of His conception.

    • @Quincy_Morris
      @Quincy_Morris 16 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +9

      The date of His perceived conception because there’s a tradition that prophets die on the day they were conceived.
      Not a Christian teaching but sort of a Jewish old wives tale that comes from the fact that prophets ages were listed as round number of years without months so people were like “must have died on the date he was conceived.”
      Point is: not pagan.

    • @romualdandrzejczak4093
      @romualdandrzejczak4093 16 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +3

      Btw, as the professor with whom I had classes on Tolkien last semester said, in Britain Good Friday was traditionally on 25th of March(hence why Frodo and Sam reach Mount of Doom on that date).

    • @felesamabilis
      @felesamabilis 12 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      ​@@Quincy_Morristhe date of Jesus' conception is calculated from Jewish calendar of priestly turns. 6 months after Zacharias turn is either end of September or end of December

  • @joelancon7231
    @joelancon7231 19 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +32

    How DARE you release a new video during my finals week.
    I'll listen to this on Spotify tomorrow nothing but love Joe!

    • @michaelbeauchamp22
      @michaelbeauchamp22 19 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +1

      It's worth the wait. Hope you do well on finals!

  • @FrJohnBrownSJ
    @FrJohnBrownSJ 21 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +53

    Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam

  • @IG88AAA
    @IG88AAA 19 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +28

    Making up facts seems to be a major foundation of the “Christmas is pagan” myth.
    Thank you Joe for putting in the time to find the facts.

  • @tomgrelinger5636
    @tomgrelinger5636 10 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +4

    I had to stop listening to the Apple Podcasts app for this episode and switch to TH-cam just to see the ChatGPT image of Odin-influenced Santa. It was well worth it and put me into a much better mood. Thanks Joe

  • @IG88AAA
    @IG88AAA 20 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +18

    I can’t get enough of Joe crushing the “Christmas is pagan” theory.

  • @douglasmader8010
    @douglasmader8010 19 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +28

    Not just Christmas to Epiphany, Joe. Traditionally the Christmas season goes from Christmas to the feast of the purification on Feb 2

    • @audreymarsh5090
      @audreymarsh5090 19 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +5

      Yeah, but at least in the US, the official Christmas season is 25Dec-the Baptism of the Lord (actually is 6Jan2025) as listed on the USCCB website. That being said, I’m still trying to convince my husband after 7 years that we should celebrate the full Christmas season and not take decor down until 3Feb.

    • @WinstonSmithGPT
      @WinstonSmithGPT 17 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +2

      @@audreymarsh5090Irish Americans used to do this. Got a bit raggedy tbh.

    • @romualdandrzejczak4093
      @romualdandrzejczak4093 16 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +2

      @@audreymarsh5090 In Poland it looks so that the Christmas season lasts to the feast of Baptism, but carols can be sung up until Feb 2.

    • @TheCatholicNerd
      @TheCatholicNerd 16 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      Kind of. I mean you had time after Epiphany which started the first Sunday after Epiphany so while it was very Christmassy it wasn't technically the Christmas season but Time after Epiphany, but you're correct. People still were festive until February 2nd. Kind of fills in the time between Epiphany and septuigesima.

  • @vinciblegaming6817
    @vinciblegaming6817 20 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +62

    I don't really blame atheists and neo-pagans for attempting to discredit Christianity by attacking our Christian celebrations.
    What shocks me and angers me is when modern Christians believe these neo-pagans claims and attack early Christianity for being pagan.

    • @shamelesspopery
      @shamelesspopery  19 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +48

      In fairness, a lot of the "Christian holidays are really paganism!" originated with badly informed Protestants (whose real objection was that they don't see the holidays and the Bible, and that these holidays were too Catholic). Atheists and neo-pagans are only too happy to keep the falsehoods going, though.

    • @carissstewart3211
      @carissstewart3211 19 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      Atheists got these ideas from Protestants.

    • @RedeemedMusicanOfGod
      @RedeemedMusicanOfGod 13 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +1

      @@shamelesspopery It probably came from us (what did you say, I can’t read).

    • @kshwi3215
      @kshwi3215 11 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +2

      Yes. Coincidentally just got a text from family member in family in law (all which are Catholic, but more like Keaster Catholics) group chat about how Christians got the date of Christmas from pagans wow how cool! Only for this video to be posted only a few hours ago! Now I get to watch then drop some truth and ruffle some feathers haha

  • @flannelmcmannel
    @flannelmcmannel 19 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +45

    I always figured that even if Christians co-opted pagan rituals and celebrations, it was a good thing. "Oh no, our traditions of vice and sin have been overtaken by holiness, piety, goodness, and thanksgiving. How terrible!"

    • @WinstonSmithGPT
      @WinstonSmithGPT 17 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +2

      That was literally the point.

    • @ji8044
      @ji8044 16 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      "overtaken by holiness, piety, goodness, and thanksgiving. "
      Never been to that kind of Christmas. Where do they celebrate it?

    • @holysmoke3201
      @holysmoke3201 16 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      I grew up JW so all I ever heard was "it's PAGAN" and even I knew it was a weak argument from a young age. Such a legalistic mindset that lacks critical thinking but I think its origins were motivated from a desire to alienate protestant "puritan" christians from Catholicism.

    • @shamelesspopery
      @shamelesspopery  15 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +5

      Mandatory JRR Jokien reference: x.com/joshcarlosjosh/status/1379079563586641924?lang=en

    • @michaelbeauchamp22
      @michaelbeauchamp22 15 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +2

      @@ji8044 in the Catholic Church silly!

  • @audreymarsh5090
    @audreymarsh5090 19 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +14

    Very happy to see an update to the “Christmas is Pagan” rebuttal you did a couple years ago! That episode, and Jimmy Akin’s interview on The Catholic Talk Show (about the what we know about the real, historical Nativity) have been my go-to listens every year about the truth of Christmas.

    • @ji8044
      @ji8044 19 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      There was no real historical nativity. It's a Gentile addition. That's why it's never even mentioned in two of the four gospels.

    • @michaelbeauchamp22
      @michaelbeauchamp22 19 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      @@ji8044 Lol, fake history

    • @audreymarsh5090
      @audreymarsh5090 19 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +7

      @@ji8044I meant the historical event when Jesus Christ was actually born…. And Jimmy Akin did a fantastic analysis of all the evidence we have about that event from the Gospels of Matthew and Luke.
      …also, given that Matthew is Jewish, how is Jesus’ Nativity a gentile addition?

    • @michaelbeauchamp22
      @michaelbeauchamp22 18 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +5

      @ When was it added then? What's the evidence this was a "Gentile addition?"

    • @ji8044
      @ji8044 16 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      @@audreymarsh5090 Because Jews were strict monotheists who had no demi-gods or divisions of god. That's why you never see the story in the rest of the NT.

  • @robertrenato
    @robertrenato 20 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +15

    That thumbnail is brilliant:D Well done. I hate these sensationalist videos with manipulative menacing music trying to undermine something so holy. It's just plain that it's done with malice. (Not to mention the AI slop)

  • @cordilajochim
    @cordilajochim 20 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +13

    Lived in Rome. Winter is mild and very sunny and a relief from the heat of summer. Notice the time Romans take off to escape the elements is the month of August.

  • @pixelarrowproductions
    @pixelarrowproductions 19 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +21

    This crossover between shameless popery and old norse specialist jackson crawford is not something I ever expected, but I am totally here for it. I have followed Dr Crawford for years, this is so cool!

    • @shamelesspopery
      @shamelesspopery  19 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +9

      Nice! I just discovered him while doing the research for this, but I really like how he explains things!

    • @pixelarrowproductions
      @pixelarrowproductions 19 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +4

      @shamelesspopery he's very clear. He's also got a cool series right now where he's going through lord of the rings with a very unique perspective because he's into all the norse history, mythology, and especially linguistics that professor tolkien was. Very cool. Not sure if it would have any crossover with your channel really but you might find it interesting personally. I know i do.

  • @John_Fisher
    @John_Fisher 17 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +10

    Though it's not the same as Lent, it is helpful to remember that Advent has a penitential character to it as well. It's helpful to remember this since every Advent comes with the annual penance of hearing "Christmas is Pagan" claims.

  • @blessingsandbonuses3681
    @blessingsandbonuses3681 19 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +13

    They always get that "Mount Mordor" woman's voice to seem more official 😅😅

    • @TheCatholicNerd
      @TheCatholicNerd 15 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +2

      I mean she has a British accent so she must be telling the truth

  • @jeroenvankooten
    @jeroenvankooten 20 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +10

    What I read is that it started as paradise trees on the feast day of Adam and Eve (24 December), mostly in Germany. The balls etc would represent "fruits". Later this kind of spread out and changed.

  • @scottgun00
    @scottgun00 20 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +11

    1:38 I was laughing out loud at the chimes that sound borrowed from the _Halloween_ soundtrack and the ominous, throaty female voice. I don't think that was the effect they were going for. 🤣

  • @billdavis5483
    @billdavis5483 20 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +9

    50 years ago my latin teacher told our class Christmas originated from Saturnalia. Nobody disputed it. I assumed Saturnalia was on December 25. I was a little let down about Christmas after that. The fact that refutes this the character of the holidays. Saturnalia allows gambling and other things like that. The character of Christmas is so different.

  • @alissarehmert2502
    @alissarehmert2502 18 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +4

    Your AI Santa almost made me spit out my coffee. Lol! I love how they also randomly added spiders.
    Also, "That doesn't even add Rudolph to the mix which will complicate it even more." 🤣🤣🤣

    • @felesamabilis
      @felesamabilis 12 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      I loved that too 😂 Lucky me I already swallowed my code prior to it 😂

  • @carissstewart3211
    @carissstewart3211 18 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +10

    For anyone who still thinks that December would be too cold for shepherds to be out:
    Today is December 12th, 2024.
    I wonder what the temperature in Bethlehem is like.
    *googles temp*
    60 degrees, feels like 59. Around midnight, it will be 55 degrees.

    • @michaelbeauchamp22
      @michaelbeauchamp22 18 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +2

      oh that's just global warming 😂

    • @scottgun00
      @scottgun00 18 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +5

      You mean Palestine's climate isn't like New England? 🤣

    • @carissstewart3211
      @carissstewart3211 18 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +5

      @michaelbeauchamp22 average global temp increase since 1880 has been about 1.9 degrees F. Are you saying 53 degrees would have been too cold for shepherds? 😂

    • @michaelbeauchamp22
      @michaelbeauchamp22 18 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +5

      @@carissstewart3211 Way too cold. Everyone knows that shepherds were wimps who couldn't stand against anything. Just look at David! Not manly or able to withstand a slightly chilly breeze at all 😂

    • @carissstewart3211
      @carissstewart3211 18 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +6

      @michaelbeauchamp22 true. ancient shepherds didn't even have access to modern conveniences like wool coats and fleece blankets.🤣

  • @hglundahl
    @hglundahl 16 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +3

    13:26 Pagan Yule in Scandinavia is not the winter solstice, but the middle of the winter season, it comes around the beginning of February.
    So, even 1000 miles away, the celebration was not for days getting longer, but for weather getting warmer again.

  • @decluesviews2740
    @decluesviews2740 19 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +5

    I didn’t expect a reference to Dr. Crawford on here. I watch some of his material, because of my love of languages. Also, good work as always, Joe!

  • @dasmysteryman12
    @dasmysteryman12 19 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +12

    Besides the mythbusting, I think the most important lesson here is if a popular “history” video uses AI, it’s most likely that the effort put into the research is as much as the effort put into its production. Which is to say none at all - incredibly lazy!

  • @michaelbeauchamp22
    @michaelbeauchamp22 21 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +19

    merry advent y'all

  • @vinciblegaming6817
    @vinciblegaming6817 21 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +11

    It's like Isaiah 9:2 doesn't predate Christmas at all...
    *The people who walked in darkness have seen a great light; those who dwelt in a land of deep darkness, on them has light shined. - Isaiah 9:2

  • @KathleenHughes-gm3jx
    @KathleenHughes-gm3jx 16 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +4

    I don't know if people realize that Romans only adopted the solar calendar in 45 BC (which is why it is called the Julian calendar, after Julius Caesar, who imposed it after learning about it from the Egyptians.) Prior to that, the Pontifex Maximum (pagan head priest) controlled the calendar, which had only 355 days: he decided when to insert the 10 missing days, or sometimes didn't insert them at all. This meant that the equinoxes and solstices were all sometimes off by weeks or even months, which implies pretty clearly that the date of the winter solstice was not important to Roman (pagan) religion.

  • @daisybrain9423
    @daisybrain9423 17 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +2

    What a joyful surprise to see Dr. Jackson Crawford feature on this channel!

  • @macmedic892
    @macmedic892 21 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +5

    5:02 Thanks for clarifying that! I was wondering if perhaps he’d stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

  • @F3z07
    @F3z07 3 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

    Awesome work. Your videos are exceptional, and we all appreciate you! Merry Christmas to you and your family.

  • @PatronSaintKolbe93
    @PatronSaintKolbe93 21 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +6

    The thumbnail is pretty slick, Joe.

    • @shamelesspopery
      @shamelesspopery  19 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +1

      Thanks! That's all Thomas, my video guy. He showed me yesterday and I loved it / had a midlife crisis.

    • @charlespagano9636
      @charlespagano9636 12 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      😂​@@shamelesspopery

  • @emilycarr2983
    @emilycarr2983 20 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +5

    I was in Rome when it snowed in 2018! One of the coolest experiences of my life.

    • @eisbehr
      @eisbehr 17 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      Winter up north is much cooler

  • @christianmaestas4435
    @christianmaestas4435 17 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +1

    No joke this time, just early interaction. Great vid! I’ll have this on repeat for sure

    • @christianmaestas4435
      @christianmaestas4435 14 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      Okay had I seen the 8legged abomination by the time I commented I would have made a joke

  • @PuzzlesC4M
    @PuzzlesC4M 16 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +4

    The most important thing I took away from this is that we get second breakfast on all twelve days of Christmas.

    • @shamelesspopery
      @shamelesspopery  15 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +1

      Elevensies on solemnities!

    • @felesamabilis
      @felesamabilis 12 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      Sounds quite hobbity 😂

  • @isaacrobson4192
    @isaacrobson4192 16 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +4

    I was literally a pagan priest before my hard conversion. They didn’t even get the pagan traditions correct, if you ignore the metaphysics you ignore why Catholicism saw them as true and baptized the beliefs

    • @shamelesspopery
      @shamelesspopery  14 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +3

      Welcome home! And yes, it's wild how little the "um actually pagan" crowd knows about historic pagan customs.

  • @jendoe9436
    @jendoe9436 19 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +6

    Just a quick comment, partially joking. I wish these types of “pagan historians” would stop trying to act like bonfires and feasting = pagan ceremonies!
    Bonfires are fun cause fire can be spectacular to watch and it keeps you toasty warm. And food is always a great crowd pleaser. Let me enjoy my bonfires and s’mores!

  • @cameronbyers5710
    @cameronbyers5710 14 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +1

    I greatly appreciate how Joe pulls sources from places that one wouldn't expect. I.E. pulling text from a pagan scholar's book that the Romans didn't have any celebrations around the winter solstice.

  • @sstrykert
    @sstrykert 4 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

    As a defender of Christmas, I appreciate this compilation of knowledge as I've learned some of these things over the years.(Martin Luther, St.Boniface,& St.Nicholas especially being my faves). Cheers!
    P.S. sharing!

  • @nickw9766
    @nickw9766 20 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +5

    Christmas means Christ Mass on Christmas Day? That’s how Xmas was first celebrated.

  • @john-paulgies4313
    @john-paulgies4313 20 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +8

    "The Feast of Mary’s Purification is, therefore, part of that of Jesus’ Birth; and the custom of keeping this holy and glorious period of 40 days as one continued Festival has every appearance of being a very ancient one, at least in the Roman Church. And firstly, with regard to Our Savior’s Birth on December 25, we have St. John Chrysostom telling us, in his Homily for this Feast, that the Western Churches had, from the very commencement of Christianity, kept it on this day. He is not satisfied with merely mentioning the tradition; he undertakes to show that it is well founded, inasmuch as the Church of Rome had every means of knowing the true day of Our Savior’s Birth; since the acts of the Enrollment, taken in Judea by command of Augustus, were kept in the public archives of Rome. The holy Doctor adduces a second argument, which he founds on the Gospel of St. Luke, and he reasons thus: we know from the sacred Scriptures that it must have been in the fast of the seventh month (Leviticus 23:24) that the Priest Zachary had the vision in the Temple; after which Elizabeth, his wife, conceived St. John the Baptist (the ‘seventh month’ corresponded to the end of our September and beginning of our October). Hence it follows that the Blessed Virgin Mary having, as the Evangelist St. Luke relates, received the Archangel Gabriel’s visit, and conceived the Savior of the world in the sixth month of Elizabeth’s pregnancy, that is to say, in March, the Birth of Jesus must have taken place in the month of December."
    - Dom. Guéranger, _The Liturgical Year_

    • @ji8044
      @ji8044 19 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      "as the Church of Rome had every means of knowing the true day of Our Savior’s Birth; since the acts of the Enrollment, taken in Judea by command of Augustus, were kept in the public archives of Rome."
      This is all completely wrong.

    • @john-paulgies4313
      @john-paulgies4313 19 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +1

      @ji8044 That's too little for you to say.

    • @ji8044
      @ji8044 12 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      @@john-paulgies4313 What can I tell you? Do you think that everybody knew it and then everybody forgot it?

    • @john-paulgies4313
      @john-paulgies4313 11 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      @@ji8044 That's not what Dom Guéranger said. Do you know the census records of your nearest metropolis?

  • @DrSheri.teaches
    @DrSheri.teaches 16 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +3

    It’s more troubling to me that the guy on the video at 9:53 appears to have 6 fingers and a thumb. Clearly that guy had questionable motives.
    On a serious note, well-done as usual, Joe.

  • @treeckoniusconstantinus
    @treeckoniusconstantinus 16 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +3

    Looking forward to the inevitable future crossover with InspiringPhilosophy this road leads down. 😆

    • @shamelesspopery
      @shamelesspopery  15 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +1

      I don't think he does crossovers, but I'm here for it!

    • @treeckoniusconstantinus
      @treeckoniusconstantinus 15 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +3

      @@shamelesspopery I can reliably say that he certainly does! His Exodus series, for example, was co-produced by Egyptologist and TH-camr David Falk (Ancient Egypt and the Bible), whom he's had on his channel several times, and he frequently streams with the likes of William Albrecht and David Wood when discussing patristics or Islam, and even streamed with Trent a while back. I'm sure IP would be open to allies on this topic.

  • @marianafaria6960
    @marianafaria6960 19 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +4

    I have a protestant friend who's never celebrated christmas 😢
    It might sound like nothing much to you. But we live in Brazil a historically very catholic country.

    • @violetd3487
      @violetd3487 11 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      Some protestant groups never celebrate Christmas because of the belief that it's pagan.

  • @smartismarti4049
    @smartismarti4049 18 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +1

    been waiting for this 🎉

  • @glendanikolakakos7431
    @glendanikolakakos7431 16 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

    Thank you for this, I’m tired of hearing this from non-Christians and from Protestants, I will definitely link this podcast to defend Christmas celebrations if some one claims that is a pagan feast , God bless ❤❤❤

  • @MathAdam
    @MathAdam 17 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +2

    Okay, but there must be a connection between the Northern European célébration of Yul and the Texan célébration of Y’all.

  • @IG88AAA
    @IG88AAA 19 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +4

    Can we get an episode about new years is Catholic, since we follow the Gregorian calendar? Leap day too.

    • @shamelesspopery
      @shamelesspopery  19 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +6

      Groundhog's Day is just a folk tradition derived from the feast of the Presentation on February 2nd, since that marked the end of winter. (True story).

    • @IG88AAA
      @IG88AAA 19 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +2

      @ That’s interesting. It always makes me smile seeing how many places Catholic doctrine, liturgy and culture influences many American holidays and customs. Especially considering our Protestant roots and founding. It would be interesting if you would make a video about some of the interesting and lesser known instances of this.

    • @ji8044
      @ji8044 19 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      Do you think the Julian calendar had no starting date each year?

    • @IG88AAA
      @IG88AAA 19 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      @@ji8044 It was partly tongue in cheek, since the pagans and seculars want to claim Catholic holidays as theirs. But at the same time the particular day the new year falls on is because of the Gregorian calendar. Also it would have an interesting back story of why we have the calendar we have.

    • @ji8044
      @ji8044 16 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      @@IG88AAA Ok gotcha.

  • @seangallagher9580
    @seangallagher9580 8 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

    Thanks again Joe for setting the record straight

  • @Joe-qs2bq
    @Joe-qs2bq 18 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +3

    Was hoping there would be a book disproving/explaining all the pagan/Christian myths/connections...

  • @DolceRamos
    @DolceRamos 18 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +1

    Love it, very well explained.

  • @dignusferox2570
    @dignusferox2570 19 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +7

    *Sees another stupid video calling Christmas pagan*
    "How many times do we have to teach you this lesson old man?"

  • @tarminas6805
    @tarminas6805 20 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +3

    God bless us, everyone 🙏🏻😁🎄🔥🪵🎅🏻✝️

  • @curiousmadcat480
    @curiousmadcat480 15 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +2

    I never understood my protestant family say that every year yet celebrate the easter bunny and the tooth fairy...anyone else's protestant family do that?

  • @WinstonSmithGPT
    @WinstonSmithGPT 17 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +2

    I don’t know what “C.E.” means. My dating system is A.D. I don’t allow people to force propaganda down my throat.

    • @michaelbeauchamp22
      @michaelbeauchamp22 17 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +4

      I say it means "Christ's Era."

    • @ji8044
      @ji8044 16 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      CE means in the Common Era. BCE Before the Common Era.
      The designation of AD and BC are medieval inventions.

    • @michaelbeauchamp22
      @michaelbeauchamp22 15 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +2

      @ And the designations of CE and BCE are... from time immemorial? Absolute designations? Modern, secular designations?

    • @WinstonSmithGPT
      @WinstonSmithGPT 14 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      @@ji8044 😂

    • @ji8044
      @ji8044 12 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      @@WinstonSmithGPT People who laugh at factual information are generally the type who spend money at the Creation Museum in Tennessee.

  • @juanspyro4658
    @juanspyro4658 18 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +1

    I clicked on this video for Saint Nicholas to explain why Christmas is not a pagan tradition and instead we have this shameless popery if you will

  • @davidhoyos1498
    @davidhoyos1498 21 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +2

    Absolute banger

  • @Olivier1
    @Olivier1 13 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

    Hi Joseph. Thanks for the really helpful material. Can you please share the links to the first two publications that you referenced in the video?

  • @1337fidoS10
    @1337fidoS10 18 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +2

    The sources for all these "erm, akshually, x is pagan" claims is always "dude, just trust me bro".

  • @von_nobody
    @von_nobody 16 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

    This remember me old Soviet joke about giveaway of cars on Moscow Red Place, "this is true, but not Moscow but Petersburg, not cars but bicycles, and not giveaway but stealing" :D

    • @felesamabilis
      @felesamabilis 12 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +1

      They are called the Radio Erewań jokes ❤

  • @BensWorkshop
    @BensWorkshop 17 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

    Many thanks Joe!

  • @ToddJambon
    @ToddJambon 21 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +4

    15:16 - The early Church referred to all non-Christians as pagans? Did this include the Jews? I wouldn't think they would lump in Jews with pagans.

    • @jmdionishow
      @jmdionishow 20 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +4

      No one thinks of that, I bet the early Church referred to Jews as "Jews" (high chance)

    • @ji8044
      @ji8044 20 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +1

      The early Christians were Jews, so that was a very confused segment. Of course early Christianity itself was quite diverse too but if you're defending Roman Catholicism as he does, you will never admit that.

    • @ToddJambon
      @ToddJambon 20 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +2

      @@ji8044 I think he would admit that, as would I. I'm not sure when it was decided that because Peter died as Bishop of Rome, that the Bishop of Rome should be the Pope. But whenever that was decided, it was certainly news to many in the early Church. So much so, that the Coptic Church still has its own Pope to this day. As a defender of the Roman Catholic Church, I want to be a part of the Rite that has Papal lineage because I believe Jesus directly gave that authority to Peter. And I admit that the early Church was diverse. Both are true.

    • @wojteks.5132
      @wojteks.5132 19 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      Oversimplification I guess

    • @boem3021
      @boem3021 14 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      ​@ji8044 what are you trying to say here? BTW, there's no such thing as "Roman Catholic Church". Roman refers to rites, it doesn't mean it's a different church than, let's say, Coptic Catholic Church.

  • @Un-Apologetix
    @Un-Apologetix 17 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +1

    The AI image of Santa ☠️😂

  • @charlespagano9636
    @charlespagano9636 18 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

    "The university, not the hotel." 😂😅😂

  • @Freeman_Gunner
    @Freeman_Gunner 13 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +1

    At 55:03 that is clearly the first Festivus Pole

    • @PLFREF
      @PLFREF 8 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      It’s a Festivus for the Restivas.

  • @WinstonSmithGPT
    @WinstonSmithGPT 5 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

    When I was a kid, you couldn’t bring mistletoe into a church. Holly, berries, pine, fine. Mistletoe, no. Too Druid or something. So much for the pagan theory.

  • @sueseelie
    @sueseelie 18 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +1

    You didn’t address elf on a shelf! Do the pagans get credit for this too? Seriously though, what a ridiculous idea. I didn’t know about it until 2010. 😂 Another great video, Joe

    • @shamelesspopery
      @shamelesspopery  15 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +1

      "He who is subjected to a field of visibility, and who knows it, assumes responsibility for the constraints of power; he makes them play spontaneously upon himself; he inscribes in himself the power relation in which he simultaneously plays both roles; he becomes the principle of his own subjection. By this very fact, the external power may throw off its physical weight; it tends to the non-corporal; and, the more it approaches this limit, the more constant, profound and permanent are its effects: it is a perpetual victory that avoids any physical confrontation and which is always decided in advance."
      - Michel Foucault on the panopticon prison / Elf on a Shelf.

  • @LauraBeeDannon
    @LauraBeeDannon 15 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +1

    Dude....they trying to erase Saint Nicholas???
    Saint Boniface left the chat...

  • @michaelrome3527
    @michaelrome3527 14 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +1

    Shameless Popery has its roots in pagan tradition, because Joe quotes from pagan sources

  • @retrocalypse
    @retrocalypse 17 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

    Hey Joel! I saw the new movie "Heretic" last night. I would love to see you take on the anti-religion speeches Hugh Grant's character gives in that film. It's mostly Reddit-tier atheism, but I think a lot will people will come away thinking he's saying profound things. In any case, keep up the great work!

  • @dariaschooler
    @dariaschooler 18 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +1

    The conquerors took over the pagan lands for Christianity because CHRIST IS THE ONE TRUE KING of ALL CREATION.

  • @martinhodnicak2333
    @martinhodnicak2333 21 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +2

    Im on 58 second and i love every word Joe said 🙂

  • @giovanibenjamin9655
    @giovanibenjamin9655 19 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +8

    Prots ignoring everything Joe said in coming, acting like he didn’t already address whatever unproven assumptions they have

  • @WinstonSmithGPT
    @WinstonSmithGPT 4 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

    The wild hunt was associated with elves in Celtic and English folklore and literature. Human beings are pursued and caught. Some find themselves at a feast in the otherworld, and if they are returned, they find time has not passed, either for them or for the rest of the world. None of this even sounds like Christmas in any way.

  • @jjpom9538
    @jjpom9538 54 นาทีที่ผ่านมา

    i’m curious to know what Joe things of the proposition that was recently promoted by Jimmy Akin about how we might know Christmas was celebrated in December, based on birth of Jesus being born six months after John the Baptist, who we think we know might have been conceived based on Zachariah and his service at the temple because he was a Levite priest.

  • @mbberry135
    @mbberry135 10 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

    1st Correct Joe You are a Small Santa Guy.
    Unlike me at 6'3" and 375 who am a Large Santa Guy.
    2nd Our Santa is less St. Nicholas and more Father Christmas from Dickens A Christmas Carol.
    Sincerely in Xto
    Mike B. B. From Philly, P.A. U.S.A.

  • @luisfilipedeandradesousa3805
    @luisfilipedeandradesousa3805 17 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

    Things Grinch would say: "Christmas is pAgAnnn".

  • @LennyBoy-px3og
    @LennyBoy-px3og 17 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +2

    41:43 heretics, Joe. Heretics

  • @lostlogic6911
    @lostlogic6911 9 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

    If the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath, it is simple to see that he is also Lord of these Pagan Holidays.

  • @TheCatholicNerd
    @TheCatholicNerd 15 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

    36:03 It's funny that you said ye Old, because that was never actually said by any English speaker back in the day. The th was originally represented by the Thorn character which doesn't exist in German. So in early English books were being printed by German printers they used the letter y because it wasn't that common to represent the th sound. Later as y became more used. They switched to th to represent that sound, so when you see ye Old, whatever, the Yi would actually be pronounced the. It's just a spelling convention.

  • @hglundahl
    @hglundahl 15 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

    38:14 I would actually be used to pronounce him "fon Südoff" but that's maybe because my granny served in the house of a noblewoman with Russian (remote) ancestry.
    In Swedish, W is an alternative spelling for V.

  • @jonf4287
    @jonf4287 19 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +3

    The idea that christmas might have pagan origins, and that if it does its a bad thing, is Puritan in origin.
    Whether or not a celebration has pagan motifs is irrelevant. The church, on many occasions, has sanctified a pagan tradition. Such as the Christmas tree. Or household saints. Or Sol Invictus. Or the Trident.
    There's nothing wrong with the Church Fathers siezing or coopting pagan religious malpractice and redirecting their worship, temples, holidays, symbols, etc towards the true God.

    • @shamelesspopery
      @shamelesspopery  19 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +4

      I specifically debunk the Christmas tree and the Sol Invictus myths in this video...

    • @jonf4287
      @jonf4287 18 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      ​@@shamelesspoperyI'm not claiming that Sol Invictus is the origin of Christmas. Most of the things you debunk in this video are blatant pop history nonsense made up in the last few decades.
      But I do believe that the Early Church did use many allegories for Christ such as the Sun of Righteousness, referenced in Malachi, to effectively "baptise" Sol Invictus and integrate its worshippers into Christianity more easily.
      And the story of St Boniface is directly correlated with the Christmas tree. This is a direct sanctification/baptism of the German's Oak. St Boniface replaced it with the fir tree. This is Church history.
      Once again, these aren't even bad things.
      Even if the Original video was correct, and pagans were decorating fir trees before Christianity, it still wouldn't matter. The entire argument is built off of a false premise that if a practice was derived elsewhere, then it is bad. And I think it's a poor decision to even buy into that premise.

    • @jonf4287
      @jonf4287 18 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +1

      @@shamelesspopery I'm not claiming that Sol Invictus is the origin of Christmas, as in the video, but I do believe that the Early Church did use many allegories for Christ such as the Sun of Righteousness, in Malachi, to effectively "baptise" Sol Invictus and integrate its worshippers into Christianity more easily.
      And the fir tree is extracted directly from the story of St Boniface, who cut down Thors Oak and replaced it with the fir tree. This is the sanctification of their idol.
      And these are good things.
      Even if the original video were correct and pagans decorated trees and the Church repurposed it for the celebration of Christ's birth, it wouldn't matter.
      The entire unspoken premise is that Christmas, or other holidays, are somehow bad, invalid, made up, or pagan because they may or may not contain elements from Christian peoples who were at some time pagan and integrated into Christianity. Or that because the Church developed holidays and practices as time has passed, it's somehow invalid.
      I don't believe that anyone should buy into that premise.
      For example, the Serbians were given the practice of household saints. When they were pagan, they had household gods. The practice was simply sanctified for their benefit.

    • @jonf4287
      @jonf4287 17 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +1

      @shamelesspopery I'm not referencing Sol Invictus the same way. There was the use of the Sun of Righteousness, an allegory for Christ in Malachi, by early Christians proselytizing. It was also used to sanctify Sunday. Not quite the same as baptizing to sanctifying a holiday, ritual or idol, but similar intent
      And for the Christmas tree, the origins are quite plainly laid out in the story of St Boniface. The pagan idol of Thors Oak was replaced with the Fir tree.
      This was also done with Serbians who had household gods, then replaced with household saints.
      The pagan trident was sanctified as a symbol of the trinity.
      Egg painting for Easter is another sanctified pagan practice.
      The point is that the Church often sanctifies culture if at all possible. And that's a good thing.
      And I think it's a mistake to buy into the pagan, atheist, and protestant proposition that it's somehow bad.
      Even if, for example, the original video was right, and pagans were dressing up trees, why does it really matter? That's my point.

  • @channelmoved9096
    @channelmoved9096 17 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +2

    The documentary is narrated with a sophisticated Englishish sounding accent and you sound like you are from New Jersey. I'm a devoted Catholic but the preponderance of credible sounding accents weighs on the side of the documentary.

    • @shamelesspopery
      @shamelesspopery  15 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +1

      NEW JERSEY????? 😲

    • @daneberryman
      @daneberryman 12 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      @@shamelesspopery forget about it I’m walking here

  • @TheBurningWarrior
    @TheBurningWarrior 17 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +1

    Bruh, the "Santa = Odin" thing is, afaik, from the Dresden Files novels (which Is not suitable for your christian minecraft server. Definitely rated R at family friendliest).

    • @suburbanbanshee
      @suburbanbanshee 9 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +1

      No, there'd been some of that crud beforehand. Which is why it also shows up in Terry Pratchett's Hogfather. Magically none of this stuff showed up from actual students of Norse history, Norse religion, etc. It's always the people who know nothing who pull this stuff out of their butts.

  • @vonitaesse4307
    @vonitaesse4307 15 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +1

    And what about the documentary from Lee Strobel, the Star of Bethlehem, showing clear evidence for Dec. 25 is the birth of Christ. Yes, Christmas is Christian and always has been!!! ♥️🎄🕊️☦️🕊️🎄♥️

  • @jaynesager3049
    @jaynesager3049 16 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

    Odin doesn’t hold a candle to St. Nicolas.

  • @WinstonSmithGPT
    @WinstonSmithGPT 5 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

    I have your shirt. 😂😂😂

  • @kyzendelaguia1063
    @kyzendelaguia1063 14 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +1

    Did you know that the 4th of July is pagan? Yep, it actually celebrates the birth of Julius Caesar because July was named after Julius Caesar.
    *See the leap in logic?

  • @letisiabriseno9965
    @letisiabriseno9965 16 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

    Thanks!

    • @shamelesspopery
      @shamelesspopery  15 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      Thank you! That was very kind of you. Glad you liked it!

    • @letisiabriseno9965
      @letisiabriseno9965 15 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      You are very welcome. I trust you and the information you share. I do wish you would promote your channel more as the information is vital to all people of Good will. Kenny Brusshard another catholic youtubber, just asks people to help him reach a goal of so many subscribers and people love to help others succeed. He went from a like 1200 subscribers to 12,000 in weeks by just asking people to help him reach his weekly goal. More gift money coming your way so you can keep up the great work. May God Bless you and your family! I do remember to pray for you now and then. I'm glad the giving button worked!

  • @HeathenPride7942
    @HeathenPride7942 10 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

    As a pagan, I really don't get this "but your traditions are pagan!!" Personally, I really don't care. I celebrate the Germanic Yule, which doesn't even cross over the Christ Mass. Germanic Yule happens on January 13th 2025. Aside from that, I know human culture tends to be syncretic, so it wouldn't be surprising. More importantly, though, is that I follow a live and let live philosophy, so if anything has any kind of pagan feel to it, I don't bother to point it out. If someone enjoys it and finds the Christian God within it, then who am I to mess with that? So, Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays and Blessed Yule to all those who celebrate.

  • @ModernLady
    @ModernLady 14 นาทีที่ผ่านมา

    Impressive how they can make a comparison between Odin harvesting souls and Santa, but not see the clear correlation between St Nicholas and Santa. 😅

  • @mil-ns3rc
    @mil-ns3rc 7 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +1

    The creation story is pagan,is a methogology story,every civilization has a creation story, psalms 103 and 104 are for the god Ra , and Pharoah brought back from Egypt, yet they are in the Bible

  • @RooK61
    @RooK61 8 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +1

    A Vist from St. Nicholas was first published in the Troy Sentinel, in Troy, New York.
    About a 10 minute walk from my home.
    The building is still there, with a plaque on the front of the building commemorating it publishing. 😊

  • @MichaelAnthony9
    @MichaelAnthony9 12 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

    It’s always the folks that think they’re the smartest in the room (while inevitably being the least intelligent) that like to make these claims that Christmas has pagan traditions.

  • @LL-bl8hd
    @LL-bl8hd 19 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

    Rome sounds like Southern California... The citrus is ripe and delicious around Christmas. 🍊😊

  • @DashiellAnthony
    @DashiellAnthony 11 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +1

    >"C.E."
    This "documentary" is obviously bunk.

  • @Garry_Combine
    @Garry_Combine 13 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

    The Santa Stuff does bother me. I love the fictional character, but the real Bishop Saint Nicholas, is my confirmation Saint. I credit his life, in part, to my conversion

  • @melissawilcox1
    @melissawilcox1 5 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

    Could you do a piece on the view that some people have that Paul ‘invented’ Christianity? Like the story goes that Jesus existed and was a teacher and was executed but the resurrection and all the ‘God stuff’ is a later story made up and laid over top and all the formal church founding and moral components were invented and promulgated by Paul, a man who never met Jesus? I have a family member who holds this view. I know they have read a variety of books, but the only title I can recall is Reza Aslan’s book Zealot. I think the idea might be from there?