The Eurotest Skiing Kitzsteinhorn Kaprun Austria April 2021

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 พ.ย. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 20

  • @SnowCampsEurope
    @SnowCampsEurope  3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    What are your thoughts on the Eurotest?

  • @AgniBroumen
    @AgniBroumen 3 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    There is also the issue of older ski instructors wanting to pass this test it would be impossible as they could not compete with the young fis racers that set the times. So it s definitely not fair.

  • @davidlongfield5090
    @davidlongfield5090 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    The vast majority of instructors in a ski school do not need to have achieved the lofty heights of level 4 with the eurotest or equivalent. Most will teach beginners or people looking to improve their parallel skiing to a high-ish level in order to be able to ski most groomed runs. Likewise a ski school does not need everyone to be top level either. it is not only counter productive and elitist but more expensive to pay a level 4 that a competent level 2/3. There are three reasons why this level is seen as a must have. 1. You need it for high positions in the school. 2. The school has high end clients. and 3. it is used by some countries as a barrier to foreign instructors. There is also the issue of personal liability insurance ( not a factor when I taught in the 80s and 90s). Some of the best teachers that I have come across are young, keen level 1/2/3s who love their jobs and love to see low end clients with a smile on their faces after snowploughing down the beginner piste.

  • @AlfoNso-ms4of
    @AlfoNso-ms4of 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    It must be mentioned that for Italian skiing instructor the Eurotest is essential for teaching at any level and we cannot work without having passed it, not even with beginners

  • @fede_wenzel
    @fede_wenzel 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Usain Bolt's Coach is not even half as fast as his student... Coaching is one thing, extreme high-level performance is another....no more questions your honor...

  • @bernhardbleierer3924
    @bernhardbleierer3924 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    do you have the number 12 on video? Can you send it to me?

    • @SnowCampsEurope
      @SnowCampsEurope  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @Bernhard Bleierer sorry we don't we only filmed what was needed to show the difference between a couple of racers. We hope you passed.

    • @bernhardbleierer3924
      @bernhardbleierer3924 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Ok, thanks btw,
      Yes I passt, on the first run

    • @SnowCampsEurope
      @SnowCampsEurope  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@bernhardbleierer3924 great news

  • @TAH1712
    @TAH1712 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    WELL, if think that if a requirement is needed to ski fast once, then it should be required to regularly pass the speed test perhaps at a greater speed differential which is age related and this should be applied to older students. Ski techniques and equipment do constantly change. A level 4 Instructor that once passed on unshaped skis 30 years ago, whilst familiar and competent to ski and teach ordinarily with shaped skis may not have the necessary ability to teach current ski race techniques on new equipment and also may be very unfit and overweight etc. The race coaches I know have race coach qualifications. The level 4 instructors I see tend to teach levels 1, 2 and 3... All associations look and listen favourably upon their kind however unfair.

  • @Benzknees
    @Benzknees 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Wow, the course made that skier who lost his pole look v.amateurish. Even tho’ he must have been a pretty good skier to get to L4.

    • @elcucuy6576
      @elcucuy6576 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      You didn’t have to wait until L4 to take the test, that’s only a new rule

  • @goskiing1410
    @goskiing1410 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    OK. The Eurotest itself, as in the day of the race; is pointless. Apart from maybe learning a little about nerves and the psychology and anxiety beginners feel all the time. Even then, it's largely the 'good' skiers like the 1st guy who often need to learn this empathy, and there's nothing a flat glacier piste with soft snow, blue sky and an early start number can scare him with... So as I say, race day it pretty pointless.
    But....... It's the training required to get to that level where the real Level 4 value lies.
    Technique, pushing yourself too and beyond you're limits, feeling a few crashes, dealing with the psychology of 'getting back on the horse', and trying to go faster still! Tactics, snow conditions, visability, ski tuning, boot canting, wedges, flex, plates, bindings, etc. Organisation of training, punctuality, remembering all your sh*t, transport, hotels, putting on a ridiculous body-stocking and feeling the burn of competition. Only a quick, 1 minute feel of it, but if any of these Ski Teachers had serious FIS experience they'd likely have exemption level FIS points (although the bar for this is constantly raised), it's good to put people through the ringer a little.
    Talking of burn, not many people pass without some squats. Gym training, fitness, understanding how high level skiing is very anaerobic and that takes some leg prep.
    Does it sound like a pointless test now?
    And I know many level 2 and 3 Ski Teachers have been through all I've listed, and MORE, but failed multiple times at the final race day hurdle. That is unfair, but how else to 'prove' for want of a better word that you have been through it all?
    I guess that's why those who pass turn a blind eye and say the clock never lies. That's a very harsh way of saying it, but how else to test Alpine Nations who have thousands of people wanting to be ski instructors, the test has to weed them down to an industry acceptable number.
    I liken the Eurotest to boxing. Fight Night is not everyone's cup of tea, a bit elitist and a bit too much testosterone. But without that cauldron of the brutal reality facing you, people would simply not train, push and achieve half as much as they do.
    That's a long ol' way of saying. The test itself is pointless, the training is industry leading and defining. There's no way to show you've done sufficient training - without the test. And round we go arguing about it.
    For those still reading and wondering, yes, I have passed the Eurotest, and went on to get 71 FIS Points after that.
    The Ski Teaching Industry and lifestyle is [was] great. It will always suffer from the danger of becoming a 'boys club', this test if nothing else, ensures a meritocracy is always present. Maybe not quite in the right way, but close enough.
    If you want an easy life, study astrophysics at Oxford or something... for Brits especially who want a real challenge, go down the Eurotest route, haha

    • @SnowCampsEurope
      @SnowCampsEurope  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Thanks for your comments and main valid points. "but how else to test Alpine Nations who have thousands of people wanting to be ski instructors" One of the points is most of the people at that race will have not been from Alpine Nations. And to that end have a much harder time passing. Also what if "feeling a few crashes" results in an injury that ends your teaching carrier? What then?

    • @goskiing1410
      @goskiing1410 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@SnowCampsEurope I have never seen a Eurotest where a majority of candidates are from non-alpine nations.
      My test had 84 on it, about 8 Brits and 2 Dutch, everyone else from the Alps. 4 passed, 1 was ex-World Cup and she didn't even bother with the speed suit...
      So as we know, most people who embark on the test will need to improve quite a bit. My point about crashing is the simple reality that; I don't know of a method of improving (to a Eurotest level) without taking a few falls. Now, if that leads to injury it sucks. But, the Mountain Safety Test will put you in steep, potentially life-threatening, avalanche terrain with likely very variable snow conditions. This could easily lead to an injury or worse. But no-one is suggesting we not do it.
      Likewise Eurotests make all allowances possible for safety, but accidents do happen.
      Now, do people from rural Leicestershire (me) have to push harder and have a greater risk of injury to get to Eurotest level, than say a Club -des-Sports 18 year old from Chamonix? Yes! No doubt, the test is going to be harder for me to get through. But I'm the one saying I want to teach skiing, and if that's the test the Alpine Nations recognise - So be it.
      If they made the test easier for me because I'm from the flatlands, or just want to teach lower level clients, or my age, or my physical shape I'd say nah, I'm doing whatever test the locals are doing! But that approach is not for everyone.
      Many French used to get annoyed in the days when Brits taught without the speed Test - Rightfully so, I saw many of those 'original' guys ski, and it was painful! Now Brit skiers are brilliant and every bit as good and respected as their Euro counterparts.
      As you probably want to say in reply, not everyone is like me. Why should a 51 year old with a dodgy knee be denied the opportunity of teaching green run lessons just because they can't carve around gates at 45kph? They may be awesome, likeable, great teachers. It's a good question, and I believe the answer lies in simple supply and demand economics. If the Alpine Nations allowed that, it would be a race to the bottom in regard to lesson prices and instructor wages.
      I know this to be true because when I worked in Switzerland it was an absolute bum-fight to get enough work, especially outside holiday periods!
      So to be clear, I, a level 4 Instructor am saying to you that industry protectionism definitely plays a role in the use of the Eurotest.
      But still, we return to why should a 51 year old in poor physical shape be denied the chance to teach? Especially if he's a good teacher?
      I guess I shall answer (brutally) with a counter question. Why should a half qualified 51 year old be allowed to lower my wages by 35%? Because if we 'allow' him to teach, then 5000 others will come too.
      Neither option is 'right' but the ESF is a BIG union, and it usually sides with whatever benefits it's members livelihoods the most.
      Lastly, a note on Switzerland. Those who have worked in resort for many years have a client book get enough hours. Those new to resort struggle a bit to start with - Regardless of qualification. Is that not a fairer system that rewards long standing instructors who provide the best service? I've heard this arguement made. But Switzerland has always been outside the EU and therefore outside the freedom of movement. A lot of pressure is on Swiss Ski School Directors to hire the correct amount of staff. Enough to profit, but not so many to cause a staff mutiny in quiet periods. Switzerland has to provide permits and can easily manage the supply and demand of labour. EU countries must rely on a qualification barrier to manage that supply and demand instead.

    • @SnowCampsEurope
      @SnowCampsEurope  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@goskiing1410 Who are you referring to as a 51-year-old in poor physical shape / 51-year-old with a dodgy knee? With regards to the Euro Mountain Safty test, this is in our opinion is no way near as risky as a speed event and is more relevant to teaching at the top level unless you're looking to be a race coach of which most have never entered a speed test. You seem to think only L4 ski teachers get the better clients may be in France that's the way but not everywhere and most of those L3 teachers get paid just as well if not some better than the L4 who may have passed the test but has fewer life skills, limited teaching experience. You seem to think anyone who has not taken the speed test is only half qualified. Are you saying a PSI a level 3 or Canadian L4 is a lesser qualified ski teacher than an L4 from the UK or France? Is a L3 Austrian who has to complete a speed test at L3 and then qualify via a speed test to even enter the Austrian L4 prosses who then passes all but the final speed test a lesser ski teacher than a BASI or one from France who does pass the test?

    • @goskiing1410
      @goskiing1410 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@SnowCampsEurope The 51 year old is just a generic example of a potentially great ski teacher, but someone unable to obtain the speed test - Not a literal example, just stereotypical.
      And a Level 4 Canadian is just as good as a top Austrian, or a Carte Pro French, etc. Although a few Canadian L4's I know would not get pass the eurotest, I might not huck the same size cliffs that they do... Reflects the ski culture of different places. All top qualified though.
      I call L2 and L3 half-qualified in my answer again generically. L1, L2, L3, generically half-qualified, not literally. But in a TH-cam answer I'm not going to be pedantic and say a L3 who has completed 2 modules of their L4 is 33/36ths qualified.
      Plus loads of people race through levels 1, 2 and 3. Then it's the speedtest that halts them, gets them working, teaching and training for 3-5 years (gaining life experience all the time...) before finally gaining their top qualification.
      Again, I know there are L2's and L3's with more teaching and life experience than L4's. But again, speaking generically, when we look at Instructors still working through the various systems, on average, the 'half-qualified' tend to be younger than the 'fully qualified'. Obviously.
      I am speaking about the averages, and you are speaking about the exceptions. I personally know 2 people who have passed everything except the speed test, and they prob never will. I know they are not 'half' qualified, they are every bit the ski teacher I am, they are particularly good off-piste skiers and teachers. And yes, their piste performance is a level below. But that's OK.
      Driving Tests would be an example. The UK driving test is comprehensive and safety focussed. The Finnish driving test involves power sliding on tree-lined roads, blind rollers, night driving in snow and takes 2 years to fully complete. Is this all necessary? Well, certainly driving in Finland you will encounter those conditions, but a lot of it is that motorsport and rallying are in Finnish culture. So the test reflects that and they are proud of it. Ski Racing is king in Alpine culture, and the tests reflect this. For many 'locals' the speed test is not that difficult, like how many Finns don't struggle to slide a car round their country lanes!
      I accept your point that the mountain safety is not as dangerous as the speed test. But is the Finnish driving test 'dangerous' for Finns? not really.
      It bloody would be for me though! I'd have to do some training. And even if all I want to do is pootle around Helsinki, for the test; I have to be a 'slow' rally driver. Therefore Ski Instructors have to be 'slow' ski racers. You work in Austria, so you know full well how much ski racing rules the Austrian world, it's the National Sport! Hardly surprising you have to race for a ski qualification.
      You can't make the arguement that my UK licence allows me to drive in Finland, because we are talking teaching and working here. A UK Driving Instructor is likely not qualified to work in Finland.
      Don't think the Eurotest is slow?
      My test was a hard one, with not even the alpine locals passing. The pass time was 8.5secs behind the 0 points time. In a FIS race it's 8 points per second for GS calculations. And you would do 2 runs. 8.5 × 8 × 2 = 136 FIS Points equivalent to pass. It's hardly blazing.
      That links to the arguement people make, that Roger Federer is better at Tennis than his coach. And then in the next breath say they aren't looking to be race coaches. You rightly point out that most race coaches don't have the speedtest. Why would they? It's not them doing it. So why do 'Instructors' need it? See my 2 previous answers.
      Lastly - Switzerland, NZ, Australia, Japan, USA + Canada I've worked in. Fully qualified Instructors get the better level lessons (on average...) Only in France has this been different. Because everyone is fully qualified.

    • @SnowCampsEurope
      @SnowCampsEurope  3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@goskiing1410 That's interesting as I am a 51-year-old ski teacher with a knackered knee. How did I knacker my knee up? Training for the speed test at the age of 47 when at the fittest I had been for many years after 2 years of training in and out of the gym. And even though I raced when I was younger at 47 my head would get in the way. After a relatively soft fall, my knee was smashed to pieces. I missed 2 winters and it took me 18 months to walk unaided again and after that, I ended up needing to have the knee re-broken and repinned. Only after a 3rd operation was I able to walk and after 17 weeks got back on skis. Now the chances of my head ever allowing me to ski at the speed needed are never going to happen. However, as a half qualified ski teacher as you refer to as a L3 Austrian Snow Sports Teacher I have and continue to ski with high-level clients, get paid in line with and at times above a L4 pay grade. Part of my winter is spent training ski teachers for all levels of qualification some of who will go on to their L4 as their age and ability will allow them to pass all aspects of the exam. So it just shows a half qualified ski teacher in Austria won't reduce your pay as you think it will. But if anything pushes it up at times to over four figures a week. Your Finnish driving test analogy is all well and good but flawed. They may well need to perform these tasks although in a car with safety systems including breaks, ABS, airbags, Traction control, safe cell, seat belts, power steering, that are there to reduce the risk of injury to the driver and passenger and not to forget that a lot of there training is on a simulator to reduce the risk even further. And I am guessing the examiner is sitting in the car with the driver at the time of the test. Hardly like a ski race where you have no safety features and your training runs are the real deal and to that end increase the risk of injury. Congratulations on passing the speed test but other than France and maybe Switzerland it is not really needed to enable people to work within the industry, not having it will not limit your pay or the level of people you can ski with.