There’s a difference between being the best ARTIST and being the best RAPPER. Artistry in music demands you do everything you possibly can to make a quality song so if a ghostwriter is needed then by all means it’s fine, however if you wanna call yourself the nicest or the best lyricist or the best rapper and you have someone writing your bars then that’s just laughable imo
On top of that, Drake not even the best ARTIST. I would not put him as one of the top five of his era from an MC standpoint (Kendrick, Cole, Los, Sean, Pusha, K.R.I.T., Gibbs, Conway are better pure MCs) and he's not pushing the creative/musical aspect like Kendrick, K.R.I.T., Gambino, Tyler, Kanye either. People going to say I'm hating but bro is the biggest hitmaker jumping from style to style. I can commend it on its own terms but once the ARTISTIC part of the conversation comes up he's hardly in it if you ask me.....
the thing is drake dont have gostwriters. he took a few unfished songs from a few artist even adding his own verse which be the best verse on the damn song for example 10 bands. go listen to the reference and then listen to drakes finished version. there wasn't a second verse on the reference you know why he added his rap verse and killed that shit. he basically would take concepts and improve upon them. but 90% of his work he's penning them bars show me a reference to the time stamp joints you know, songs where he's actually rapping his ass off. If its the melodic/r&b joints he shouldn't be held to rap rules anyway. but lets watch you find another reason to hate on the nigga.
One thing, i mostly agree but its one thing to write it, its another to deliver it right and with emotion. Then again some ghost written verses it doesn’t matter but u still gotta worry about making it sound good. A ghost writer does make it much easier though lol
If u got a ghostwriter or had one and relied on it to garner substantial success, i feel like its a HELL NO to be considered the best rapper, unless you were beyond great, like a pioneer or something and they only did it once or so
It's in their BEST INTEREST to say yes and agree because of music industry politics. They need those high profile connections so they'll never say the truth just in case certain opportunities come around.
@@eurelrichardson3642 your 100% correct. It's just sad to me that it's gone this far. Speaking bad about Drake is like "Lord Voldemort".. too much power lol. As person who loves true music it hurts man
@@PLAYDIMITRI I totally agree with you. They do the same thing with Jay Z as well. Won't go against him for fear of being blackballed, shutdown or not getting the connections needed to become successful. They playing by the industry politics and rules.
Jay-Z had Sauce Money, Young Chris, Sparks, and Kanye West ghostwrite for him. Kanye West had Rhymefest, Andre 3000, Consequence, Q-Tip, Jay-Z, Lupe etc. ghost write for him.
My thing is does having some of your shit written for you take away from the greet shit you wrote for yourself? Jay being written for by these people you listed( if that's even true) doesn't mean he isn't a phenomenal lyricist. He wrote Still Dre in 20 minutes for instance.
@@Steez224 it is said to be easier to write a hit for someone else because u writing for them in their voice and using their background. Alot of the greatest hits in hip hop has been ghost written going back to suga hill.
Drake is a great musical PERFORMER. He's knows how to convey the message of his tracks effectively and knows how to make a good hook and melody. He's definitely not a lyricist. He's, in my opinion, disqualified from the "greatest rapper" discussion due to having a ghostwriter. He's entertainment.
I feel like Drake has probably wrote alot of his own lyrics but at times he does reference tracks. When he still acting before he got signed he did a a interview on mtv cribs and had books of rhymes!
Exactly. And his aim is to be mainstream. It changes his reasons for actions. Things he does are for money. Business moves. That's fine. But he's not in it for the art. He's not creating his own stuff like you said.
ghostwriter no m.c. now entertainers...yes!!! We' SHOULD have a contest where they have to write...on Da`Spot/ppl give them concept...ppl dont want that smoke...lolol ✨
I used to work with kids and we would all sit at a table and everybody would write a topic or there would be items brought to the table and we would randomly pick each topic or item and have 5 minutes to write a poem. Those kids surprised me with how much they were willing to share through art. It was dope but I said all that to say; I would love to do what you said. I been doing that for years by myself…. It’s dope. #SLIMM
drake n kanye...🤔💭...both you gotta Salute...REAL/fake...writeRz\gh👻§ twriteRz...they make maG°ic happen 3v3R°yt¡m3...[i was just lied to...that their wasnt no wizard of oz/somebody Be'hind Da`CuR°t¡nz...while ppl where EyE`AM from n otheRz...die/Be'mislead\go their hardest~blood/sweat\teaRz~🌌👻🌌...Be'cause of Da`Lie/fantasy LIFE..."so entertaininG°"...hmmmmmmm! what aRe We' entertain¡&G°...again...hiphop n33dz some soap n Water°...{Water° for your Be'hind n soap for your mouth)...lolol {laughoutloudorlearn}...
C’mon man do you really believe Drake and Kanye have never wrote a song for themselves? Yes people have wrote for them but Ye and Drake are absolutely some of the greatest writers ever
GE33Agreed !! I thought this was kinda funny how they interviewing the ghost writer he keeps mention how he writes for people every time he speaks 🤣🤣🤣. We get it , we get it u a ghost writer. I honesty feel like most of or if not all Gohst writers are jealous deep down. Especially that guy lmmfao. Just my opinnion though.
Max Fit you don’t think producer don’t be in the studio throwing out phrases for verses, coming up with hooks with artists. Telling artist how they should flow on the beat etc. All artist get help eventually
@@jwright2939 originality is paramount? Since when? Since day two everyone been copying each other’s flows on a beat. Don’t let a word or phrase get hot everyone’s going to use it. You listen to earlier rap everybody tried to rap with the same rhythm scheme. 2010’s everyone either wanted to sound like migos or rap and sing like drake. All Rappers use samples from artist of all genres for god sake what’s original about that.
@@RASHEED-nt4iz If you were actually watching the video one of dude's said Kanye hasnt wrote his own stuff since 04, the rest of them tried to hush him up.
Some people have different skills. Some Ghost writers can't rap they're own lyrics better than someone who has crazy delivery. A ghost writer who thinks he's the best just because he can write is just as delusional as a rapper who gets help writing, if either says they're the best. *Sidebar: Conway wearing a 👗?..why all these podcasts dodging the topic.
NO... You CANNOT be the best at something when you've been assisted where someone else in your field did it alone and arguably better. For along time I didn't even know rappers were using ghostwriters, that makes you an actor following a script. Don't get me wrong it doesn't mean the music isn't great or good, but it's not your words or your experience. This is how the industry controls OUR music, by giving the hottest songs to the best puppets. This is why the REAL are silenced because they CANNOT be controlled. If i get a dope producer, a popular puppet, and a dope writer I have the ingredients of a "perceived" talent. Our music has been broken down to a science and reversed engineered against our community. These actors don't scare REAL MCs that's why the threats are being eleminated before they can get a real buzz. Some of the rappers at the top of the game proactively seek out the up and coming threats to feed off them and ride their wave until they find another. Attention is a hell of a drug so much so that it causes the old to feed on the young. None of you could ever be the greatest because your silence is complicity but the chickens are on the way home to roost... believe me😇.
@@iamthechosenone10 I'm a MC. In its conception Rap/Hip-hop was exclusively the voice of the Black community, a place that tolerated nothing less than authenticity. I feel I don't necessarily have the right to speak on other genres. That being said, from the viewpoint of a song writer/artist myself I understand the hard work and dedication that goes into the creation process.I would never say that an artist doesn't deserve the awards and merits for the performance of a song, but if that artist didn't create that song they don't deserve to be considered better than the colleagues that actually did. It's like making the bully who stole his/her classmates homework the valectdictorian or class president. Some artist accept awards and the "clout" that comes with them never paying homage to the real genius who created the masterpiece. I understand that some "Ghostwriters" agree to this and sign confidentiality clauses and I respect that too. At the same time any self respecting person would give honor where it is due instead of creating the illusion of being the creator. All of this is public knowledge btw, no disrespect to any of the artist this may refer to though...it is what it is.😐
@@cray6525 I definitely 100000% agree with you 💯 I get disappointed when I hear a singer doesn't write there own music that's why I got mad respect for PRINCE!!! He did everything in his music and called other artists out on there bullshit lol but everyone has ghostwriters Even nas got called out ! So I'm not surprised. There's only a few jay z, eminem , jadakiss that never had ghostwriters that I know of
I’m just waiting to see who’s at the top of the list of the greatest ever without help. If they career don’t match they pen your not the greatest. You gotta have the best career and pen to be the greatest ever.
Whether most simple or complicated etc lyrics, what matters most is impact. How many people can you connect to with your music on a human, spiritual and cultural level.
You got to be more specific, Drake has only had ghost writers when it comes to pop songs, and radio hits, when it comes to his lyrical songs and his songs with bars he had zero help, or so from what I know, I’m not in the game I’m just a fan of Hip Hop, and people said Drake never had help with his songs that’s him just rapping, he only had help with pop hits and certain radio songs and I feel like that shouldn’t be a strike against him. Now with Kanye, Kanye writes his own raps and he had ghost writers, he should not be mentioned when it comes to rapping, but when it comes to artistry? He’s the best
@@wildhearts242 he’s probably talking about that “ 10 bands “ song, but that’s a chant song or a trap song, that’s not him rapping. And he had help on a verse with the meek mill “ R.I.C.O. “ and the rest was all pop songs. You can literally find all his demos on TH-cam.
Drake has ghostwriters. Kanye has writers. That's the difference. Kanye puts the names in the credits, so he never tried to hide it. Biz Markie put Big Daddy Kane's name in the liner notes as his writer. A rapper who uses ghostwriters do so because they don't want people to know they don't write.
@@GH-vz3wd What's even crazier is people that the artists write 100% of their songs. Go look up every Nas album cover, Eminem album cover, they credit other people as writers as well on songs.
@@sthao1733 Producers are listed as writers too. And if you sample a song (or multiple) the writers and producers of that song are credited as well so that's why you usually see other people credited as writers on an Eminem or Nas song.
@@jojan715 agreed 2004-07 def my fav kanye (CD & LR his two dopest albums for me) 808 & Heartbreaks mostly trash to me. MBDTF had some dope songs on it also but not what Kanye stans and critics make it.
Ghostwriters are just there to do the rappers work, so they don't have ta come up wit anything clever or witty. I love lyrical rap such as Nas, Royce, Kxng Crooked, Eminem ect.. they are proper hip hop. Most rappers nowadays never sit down and come up wit shit themselves. Because they ain't got the cleverness in there disposal. But a lot of rappers now such as weezy and J cole , the have the wittiness to there lyrics and also they add there won style to create a fresh and unique sound.
Incase you didnt know, Wayne also had a ghostwriter very early on in his career.. When he first started rappin he was terrible. Then a little while before The Carter 1, Gillie got signed to cash money n started writin for him.. Little while after that Wayne didnt need him no more. He took Gillies flow n style and he ran with it. In fact he became even better than his old writer. But yeah my point is, he had a ghost writer at 1 point in his life
Definitely a huge no. We listen to famous people because we want to hear from them not some nobody. Drake done made mad cash off people who are actually talented
Yo who left there wig in the background behind homie with the blue sleeves lol. That's the true question some chick out there walking around without her wig haha
It’s different because Rap had a sport vibe to it. Competitive. Nobody cares if Michael Jackson wrote Thriller - he brought it to Life. But, if We found out Nas didn’t write his verses for, “If I Ruled the World” then it would hit DIFFERENT. Feelings would be HURT! Lol
Because people don't understand that rap since the beginning has always been about your story, your truth, your experiences. So for rappers to not write their own material that would hurt lol because as a fan you attach yourself to a particular artist because you feel like you connect with them. Where they came from, what they talk about, but if you find out that that's not even their own story you're like who is this stranger 😂
@@purplemindstate4303 but Picasso’s hand moved that brush, regardless of the inspiration.. and Picasso was just a random example lol it wasn’t meant to be that deep. Point is, a rappers brush in the art of hip hop is his pen. If the rapper isn’t writing his shit, he just lip syncing someone else’s song out loud. Drake has whole reference tracks which is essentially instructions on how to get on that beat.. lol that’s trash imo
@@purplemindstate4303 simple minds default to the money I see.. no pride in the creative passion. That’s the difference between pop fans and hip hop fans.
@@R2TheM At the end of the day who wrote what does not matter as long as money is being made.. Fans don't care as long as they're enjoying the music. None of Drakes biggest critics have been able to take his spot.
Why do you think Swizz said that if you wrote a verse for another artist that's on your song, you can spit that joint in a Verzuz battle! Ghostwriting needs its own category at this point.
The brother in the AirMax is right people accept ghostwriting once we know from the start. You be the one of the greats if it doesn’t come from your mind so drake could have the title of chat topper most number ones greatest selling whatever but never in top 10s or goat conversation
@@seanmurdock2279 agreed if it doesn't come from your mind you shouldn't be a top ten artist tho! Rapper maybe???...because it's become a symbiotic relationship cause many ghost writers can't break big because of their flow or image. May of the cause of their flow tho. Cause some can have a barely existent underground following, but do great with hits as a ghostwriter...
You know what’s crazy.....Some surprising rappers I heard DONT write they own shit all the time....lil Wayne, French Montana, Rick Ross !!! I heard 50 cent also be having ghost writers too !!!
yes, you can be the best rapper with a ghostwriter. if presidents can have amazing speeches with ghostwriters. it’s a boss move. having a ghostwriter and still being considered top 10. you got to say that it’s working for them.
yes...n...no...they gh👻st write OUR° wh🌍le history...you tink' that was a boss...move...[i say/talk Respectfully' when i ever comment just so anyONE knewz]...✨
@@ge3362 thanks for the comment. i respect your viewpoint. from some of the guess on the show. it’s seems that ghostwriting is a known part of the game. i mean jay-z and others have written classics for Dre and others. when i say boss move. it’s more of on both sides of the coin finding their lane. the game is about finding out how to get to the top.
i wish i knew that back than...lolol with all myArtist i had...some on sound cloud...type in G entertainment33 Da`Otherz was so hot...i didnt want to let them go/show to Da`Bag was in Da`Air per say! (i learned i SHOULD of gave it to Da`People for free...since We' make/produce at ease/same day type fl🌊w...n went from there)...now everybody everywhere all over...Da`🌍...✨
@@jameshamilton5947 much respect. true hip was a beautiful thing. true hip hop ain’t popular anymore. the best driver ain’t the best mechanic. the best mechanic ain’t the best driver. them working together though the can win the race. true hip hop is fading away and being replaced by industry exec getting return on their investment. if it takes ghostwriters so be it as long as it’s a hit.
YES ofcrouse you can, BUT not based on the songs that was written by others, that wouldn't even make sense, if Drake didn't write 'back to back'' it matters, but if Drake didn't write Hotline Bling, WHO CARES lol its all about context
I feel like being the best rapper and the best mc is different. I would consider an mc as someone who writes and kills versus but rapping is more than just verses it's style, flow, cadence, performance and other variables other than just jotting a bar down. So I feel like Drake could possibly be the best rapper as far as a full package but the ghost writing could possibly mess up his mc legacy RS. However I believe he nice rather he has a ghost writer or not imo, you can't be in the game crazy long and not be one of the best.
I am personally a major Drake Stan. I followed his career for a very long time and from the very early mixtapes. I was always the first to put Drakes name up there as one of the best MC’s... UNTIL, I heard the reference tracks. Once I heard the reference tracks, it was over for me. I still appreciate and love Drakes music but he simply can’t be put in the same category as the great MC’s before him because of this hiccup. Who knows what else he doesn’t write.
The only help you can get is when you are in a room with your homies, and they offer advice, like you should say this... well, that’s ok. Ghostwriting for rappers is like shooting shots for pro ball players.
The obvious answer is no. They can't be considered the best rappers/MC with ghostwriters writing their shit. They can be the best artist or entertainer but not best rapper/MC.
We have to make a distinction between best rapper and best hip-hop artist. Kanye is one of the greatest hip-hop artists of all time, maybe the very best in many people's eyes. However, he's not in the top 100 in terms of lyricism. Especially given that most of his stuff is written by someone else. King Los is a top tier rapper. But he isn't a great hip-hop artist. He doesn't have hit records, he doesn't have iconic anthems, he doesn't have classic albums and those albums/mixtapes don't sell well either. For me the greatest rapper of all time is Black Thought. I felt that way for a long time and I still think that now. However, the greatest artist for me is without a doubt 2Pac. He has everything I want from an artist. He has the albums, the iconic moments, the iconic songs, the sheer variety of songs, hit record after hit record. The crazy thing is, he did it all over a very short period of time. No one can compare to him in hip-hop, as far as artistry is concerned. Don't shoot me down in the comments. I'll take every commenter that wants it, but I'd rather have a fruitful discussion. ✌🏾
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There’s a difference between being the best ARTIST and being the best RAPPER. Artistry in music demands you do everything you possibly can to make a quality song so if a ghostwriter is needed then by all means it’s fine, however if you wanna call yourself the nicest or the best lyricist or the best rapper and you have someone writing your bars then that’s just laughable imo
On top of that, Drake not even the best ARTIST. I would not put him as one of the top five of his era from an MC standpoint (Kendrick, Cole, Los, Sean, Pusha, K.R.I.T., Gibbs, Conway are better pure MCs) and he's not pushing the creative/musical aspect like Kendrick, K.R.I.T., Gambino, Tyler, Kanye either. People going to say I'm hating but bro is the biggest hitmaker jumping from style to style. I can commend it on its own terms but once the ARTISTIC part of the conversation comes up he's hardly in it if you ask me.....
Is that the Skyzoo that got smoked by Jin on 106th and park?
@@dawb86 Thank you Sir. Goddam
Artist comes form Art and if the art is not created by the artist, he's just a performer period!
@@dawb86 Correct.
Drake is a great artist but you don’t get to be in the best rapper convo with a ghostwriter
He dont have one thats the thing. Everbody so lost on this, it cant be overturned now cause yall stupid
Artist?! What art is he creating if he's performing art another man has been creating?!
Neither does Kanye lmao you biased....
Facts
Correction he is a good actor.😂🎬
No you can’t be the Best Rapper if you use a Ghostwriter!!!! That credit would be and should be to the person who wrote it!
the thing is drake dont have gostwriters. he took a few unfished songs from a few artist even adding his own verse which be the best verse on the damn song for example 10 bands. go listen to the reference and then listen to drakes finished version. there wasn't a second verse on the reference you know why he added his rap verse and killed that shit. he basically would take concepts and improve upon them. but 90% of his work he's penning them bars show me a reference to the time stamp joints you know, songs where he's actually rapping his ass off. If its the melodic/r&b joints he shouldn't be held to rap rules anyway. but lets watch you find another reason to hate on the nigga.
not to mention drake wrote for other niggas
@@shawnnj4914 stop it
One thing, i mostly agree but its one thing to write it, its another to deliver it right and with emotion. Then again some ghost written verses it doesn’t matter but u still gotta worry about making it sound good. A ghost writer does make it much easier though lol
False...not every ghost writer can rap well or better than some of the people they write for.
You can be the best performer, but I don't think you can be the best rapper if you have ghostwriters.
If u got a ghostwriter or had one and relied on it to garner substantial success, i feel like its a HELL NO to be considered the best rapper, unless you were beyond great, like a pioneer or something and they only did it once or so
People that have ghost writers should NEVER call themselves the goat EVER
You can NEVER be the best if you don't write your own shit. That goes without saying
I can't believe everyone in this video didn't say "NO" immediately after math asked the question. Smh...y'all really love Drake and Kanye to death huh
It's in their BEST INTEREST to say yes and agree because of music industry politics. They need those high profile connections so they'll never say the truth just in case certain opportunities come around.
@@eurelrichardson3642 your 100% correct. It's just sad to me that it's gone this far. Speaking bad about Drake is like "Lord Voldemort".. too much power lol. As person who loves true music it hurts man
@@PLAYDIMITRI I totally agree with you. They do the same thing with Jay Z as well. Won't go against him for fear of being blackballed, shutdown or not getting the connections needed to become successful. They playing by the industry politics and rules.
@@eurelrichardson3642 OR maybe they just honestly feel that way. Maybe they know something you don’t know.
They 🍆🚴♀️ to get in a better position in this satanic industry.
I had Kanye in such high regards until I found out he had his shit written...smh
You can be the best "hitmaker" but never the best emcee if you dont write your own shit. That's hip hop 101
Jay-Z had Sauce Money, Young Chris, Sparks, and Kanye West ghostwrite for him. Kanye West had Rhymefest, Andre 3000, Consequence, Q-Tip, Jay-Z, Lupe etc. ghost write for him.
None of them the best
My thing is does having some of your shit written for you take away from the greet shit you wrote for yourself? Jay being written for by these people you listed( if that's even true) doesn't mean he isn't a phenomenal lyricist. He wrote Still Dre in 20 minutes for instance.
@@Steez224 it is said to be easier to write a hit for someone else because u writing for them in their voice and using their background. Alot of the greatest hits in hip hop has been ghost written going back to suga hill.
Hell NO! But it’s life! It’s a whole bunch of people that take credit for something that they didn’t actually do! Smh 🤦🏾♂️
Drake is a great musical PERFORMER. He's knows how to convey the message of his tracks effectively and knows how to make a good hook and melody. He's definitely not a lyricist. He's, in my opinion, disqualified from the "greatest rapper" discussion due to having a ghostwriter. He's entertainment.
💯% he's a alternative artist and nothin wrong with that
I feel like Drake has probably wrote alot of his own lyrics but at times he does reference tracks. When he still acting before he got signed he did a a interview on mtv cribs and had books of rhymes!
Exactly. And his aim is to be mainstream. It changes his reasons for actions. Things he does are for money. Business moves. That's fine. But he's not in it for the art. He's not creating his own stuff like you said.
@@IceKoldKilla exactly 💯%
Drake ghost writes for a lot of artists
No you cannot! Shouldn’t even be in question when we have living hip hop legends who write for themselves and others.
Can’t be the best with a writer you should only be in the entertaining category
ghostwriter no m.c. now entertainers...yes!!! We' SHOULD have a contest where they have to write...on Da`Spot/ppl give them concept...ppl dont want that smoke...lolol ✨
I used to work with kids and we would all sit at a table and everybody would write a topic or there would be items brought to the table and we would randomly pick each topic or item and have 5 minutes to write a poem. Those kids surprised me with how much they were willing to share through art. It was dope but I said all that to say; I would love to do what you said. I been doing that for years by myself…. It’s dope. #SLIMM
If that’s the case I’d argue Ye is more entertaining then drake and that’s outside of the music.
drake n kanye...🤔💭...both you gotta Salute...REAL/fake...writeRz\gh👻§ twriteRz...they make maG°ic happen 3v3R°yt¡m3...[i was just lied to...that their wasnt no wizard of oz/somebody Be'hind Da`CuR°t¡nz...while ppl where EyE`AM from n otheRz...die/Be'mislead\go their hardest~blood/sweat\teaRz~🌌👻🌌...Be'cause of Da`Lie/fantasy LIFE..."so entertaininG°"...hmmmmmmm! what aRe We' entertain¡&G°...again...hiphop n33dz some soap n Water°...{Water° for your Be'hind n soap for your mouth)...lolol
{laughoutloudorlearn}...
C’mon man do you really believe Drake and Kanye have never wrote a song for themselves? Yes people have wrote for them but Ye and Drake are absolutely some of the greatest writers ever
GE33Agreed !! I thought this was kinda funny how they interviewing the ghost writer he keeps mention how he writes for people every time he speaks 🤣🤣🤣. We get it , we get it u a ghost writer. I honesty feel like most of or if not all Gohst writers are jealous deep down. Especially that guy lmmfao. Just my opinnion though.
Denzel Washington has a acting coach. Your favorite author has and editor. Everybody gets help
Not the same bro
Max Fit you don’t think producer don’t be in the studio throwing out phrases for verses, coming up with hooks with artists. Telling artist how they should flow on the beat etc. All artist get help eventually
@@disizshard
There's a difference between suggesting how to deliver a verse and actually writing the verse
Rap is way different. Foolish analogies. Originality and skills are the paramount. Who wrote for u?
@@jwright2939 originality is paramount? Since when? Since day two everyone been copying each other’s flows on a beat. Don’t let a word or phrase get hot everyone’s going to use it. You listen to earlier rap everybody tried to rap with the same rhythm scheme. 2010’s everyone either wanted to sound like migos or rap and sing like drake. All Rappers use samples from artist of all genres for god sake what’s original about that.
why do folk leave out playful personalities like Luda and Busta? These are two of the best to spit lyrically and they both have bangers as well
I think they're underrated, but I don't think they're elite lyricists (Crooked I, Daylite, Royce, King Los, etc).
Luda gets snubbed a ton
I Ghost wrote a college dissertation for Graduation requirements! Cha Ching!$$$
So they're trying to cover up the fact that Kanye hasn't wrote a rhyme since 2004, nice try but I heard that fellas.
That’s so not true! Y’all just be saying anything lol
Lmao what type of BS lie is this? Some of you just need to stop commenting.
I think people already knew he didn’t wrote everything
Lupe already said everybody was helping Kanye on his first album, not the one that came out.
@@RASHEED-nt4iz If you were actually watching the video one of dude's said Kanye hasnt wrote his own stuff since 04, the rest of them tried to hush him up.
Some people have different skills. Some Ghost writers can't rap they're own lyrics better than someone who has crazy delivery. A ghost writer who thinks he's the best just because he can write is just as delusional as a rapper who gets help writing, if either says they're the best.
*Sidebar: Conway wearing a 👗?..why all these podcasts dodging the topic.
Somebody said he took the oath already, hence the dress.
I don't see a dress
@@afropick93 look it up
NO... You CANNOT be the best at something when you've been assisted where someone else in your field did it alone and arguably better. For along time I didn't even know rappers were using ghostwriters, that makes you an actor following a script. Don't get me wrong it doesn't mean the music isn't great or good, but it's not your words or your experience. This is how the industry controls OUR music, by giving the hottest songs to the best puppets. This is why the REAL are silenced because they CANNOT be controlled. If i get a dope producer, a popular puppet, and a dope writer I have the ingredients of a "perceived" talent. Our music has been broken down to a science and reversed engineered against our community. These actors don't scare REAL MCs that's why the threats are being eleminated before they can get a real buzz. Some of the rappers at the top of the game proactively seek out the up and coming threats to feed off them and ride their wave until they find another. Attention is a hell of a drug so much so that it causes the old to feed on the young. None of you could ever be the greatest because your silence is complicity but the chickens are on the way home to roost... believe me😇.
So rihanna beyonce elton john and ALOT of famous singers etc. Are jus actors??
@@iamthechosenone10 I'm a MC. In its conception Rap/Hip-hop was exclusively the voice of the Black community, a place that tolerated nothing less than authenticity. I feel I don't necessarily have the right to speak on other genres. That being said, from the viewpoint of a song writer/artist myself I understand the hard work and dedication that goes into the creation process.I would never say that an artist doesn't deserve the awards and merits for the performance of a song, but if that artist didn't create that song they don't deserve to be considered better than the colleagues that actually did. It's like making the bully who stole his/her classmates homework the valectdictorian or class president. Some artist accept awards and the "clout" that comes with them never paying homage to the real genius who created the masterpiece. I understand that some "Ghostwriters" agree to this and sign confidentiality clauses and I respect that too. At the same time any self respecting person would give honor where it is due instead of creating the illusion of being the creator. All of this is public knowledge btw, no disrespect to any of the artist this may refer to though...it is what it is.😐
@@cray6525 I definitely 100000% agree with you 💯 I get disappointed when I hear a singer doesn't write there own music that's why I got mad respect for PRINCE!!! He did everything in his music and called other artists out on there bullshit lol but everyone has ghostwriters Even nas got called out ! So I'm not surprised. There's only a few jay z, eminem , jadakiss that never had ghostwriters that I know of
@@iamthechosenone10 It would B interesting 2 C how many imposters reaching for a crown they don't deserve and never did...
Cray WELL SAID!!! YOU HIT IT RIGHT WHERE IT NEEDED IT. I agree 100 plus🐔
I’m just waiting to see who’s at the top of the list of the greatest ever without help. If they career don’t match they pen your not the greatest. You gotta have the best career and pen to be the greatest ever.
It's not even a discussion. If you have ghost writers, you are disqualified from any respectable goat list immediately.
What??? Dude naw you can’t be the best rapper with a ghost writer ain’t even a conversation dude
10:38 he's lying about ghost writing for people to try and make his self seem important 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Correct body language also
Whether most simple or complicated etc lyrics, what matters most is impact.
How many people can you connect to with your music on a human, spiritual and cultural level.
Anyone claiming they the best and has had ghostwriters? To me you can't claim that then..period.
Now I know what cat's mean when they say they don't write Lol 😂
You got to be more specific, Drake has only had ghost writers when it comes to pop songs, and radio hits, when it comes to his lyrical songs and his songs with bars he had zero help, or so from what I know, I’m not in the game I’m just a fan of Hip Hop, and people said Drake never had help with his songs that’s him just rapping, he only had help with pop hits and certain radio songs and I feel like that shouldn’t be a strike against him. Now with Kanye, Kanye writes his own raps and he had ghost writers, he should not be mentioned when it comes to rapping, but when it comes to artistry? He’s the best
thats completely untrue. he literally had ghost writers for his raps as well lol
@@wildhearts242 he’s probably talking about that “ 10 bands “ song, but that’s a chant song or a trap song, that’s not him rapping. And he had help on a verse with the meek mill “ R.I.C.O. “ and the rest was all pop songs. You can literally find all his demos on TH-cam.
100% simple: Ghostwriter? You're no writer. No rapper. Period. Write all your own joints. Period.
if you dont write it, you get no credit ..... period....justify all you want...
Could Michael Jordan have been considered the best basketball player if someone else was scoring points for him?
Dante Dante put that blunt down!!!
‘I don’t believe in you writers because I don’t believe in ghosts ‘
He never lied about being a Capricorn we definitely keep s*** tucked away
This How Party Next Door Feel lol. He Make Something And Drake Come In Like Okay Make Your Verse 😮💨
Drake has ghostwriters. Kanye has writers. That's the difference. Kanye puts the names in the credits, so he never tried to hide it.
Biz Markie put Big Daddy Kane's name in the liner notes as his writer. A rapper who uses ghostwriters do so because they don't want people to know they don't write.
Quentin Miller was credited on the album. Always been there lol
Yall niggas be acting like every single song somebody handed him a paper like hear say this i bet like 95% of the shit he writes
@@GH-vz3wd What's even crazier is people that the artists write 100% of their songs. Go look up every Nas album cover, Eminem album cover, they credit other people as writers as well on songs.
@@sthao1733 Producers are listed as writers too. And if you sample a song (or multiple) the writers and producers of that song are credited as well so that's why you usually see other people credited as writers on an Eminem or Nas song.
Math shoes be clean 👌
I just said this Jim is the most underrated nyc rapper he improved so much with each project
This must have been before Dip vz Lox and before Nas Kings Disease 2
Well said
This shouldn't even be a debate. You can't be the best artist if you don't create. You can be a great entertainer but that's it.
No... is the answer.
No chance in hell can you ever be in the conversation if you have a ghostwriter. Unless your ghostwriter is just writing choruses for hits.
Yo it’s CRAZY how we have certain limitations for a certain genre bc R&B artist have “ghostwriters” but STILL GET IN THE 🐐conversation 🤷🏾
Why can’t Mickey repeat that line about Kanye having ghostwriters post 2004. You guys scared of his power? 😂
I think he was sicing it 😂 2004 is a stretch , maybe right before 808s & Heartbreak
@@jojan715 agreed 2004-07 def my fav kanye (CD & LR his two dopest albums for me) 808 & Heartbreaks mostly trash to me. MBDTF had some dope songs on it also but not what Kanye stans and critics make it.
They don't want him to fuck up any future ghost writing opportunities for himself or them.
Short answer: No. You can't be a real Emcee or Rapper & you can't claim you're the best, if you have a ghostwriter. This ain't Hee Haw!
Ghostwriters are just there to do the rappers work, so they don't have ta come up wit anything clever or witty. I love lyrical rap such as Nas, Royce, Kxng Crooked, Eminem ect.. they are proper hip hop. Most rappers nowadays never sit down and come up wit shit themselves. Because they ain't got the cleverness in there disposal.
But a lot of rappers now such as weezy and J cole , the have the wittiness to there lyrics and also they add there won style to create a fresh and unique sound.
Incase you didnt know, Wayne also had a ghostwriter very early on in his career.. When he first started rappin he was terrible. Then a little while before The Carter 1, Gillie got signed to cash money n started writin for him.. Little while after that Wayne didnt need him no more. He took Gillies flow n style and he ran with it. In fact he became even better than his old writer. But yeah my point is, he had a ghost writer at 1 point in his life
I free all my ish. Truth
if u got a ghostwriter, u can't claim to be the best emcee ... if Casper iz behind you, u ain't that nigga ...
full stop ... 🛑
Definitely a huge no. We listen to famous people because we want to hear from them not some nobody. Drake done made mad cash off people who are actually talented
It don’t bother zoo cause he know he an alien lol
Jim second and third album were classics
If I stumbled on a beat and it doesn't come out smooth the first time I just move on immediately
“Mayonnaise color Benz I push miracle whips” 🔥🔥🔥🔥 Kanye been nice
Yo who left there wig in the background behind homie with the blue sleeves lol. That's the true question some chick out there walking around without her wig haha
The disrespect for Wayne is crazy
It’s different because Rap had a sport vibe to it. Competitive. Nobody cares if Michael Jackson wrote Thriller - he brought it to Life. But, if We found out Nas didn’t write his verses for, “If I Ruled the World” then it would hit DIFFERENT. Feelings would be HURT! Lol
Because people don't understand that rap since the beginning has always been about your story, your truth, your experiences. So for rappers to not write their own material that would hurt lol because as a fan you attach yourself to a particular artist because you feel like you connect with them. Where they came from, what they talk about, but if you find out that that's not even their own story you're like who is this stranger 😂
Imagine Picasso using someone else to paint his shit lol
It's well documented that Picasso copied African art..but what's new🤦
@@purplemindstate4303 but Picasso’s hand moved that brush, regardless of the inspiration.. and Picasso was just a random example lol it wasn’t meant to be that deep. Point is, a rappers brush in the art of hip hop is his pen. If the rapper isn’t writing his shit, he just lip syncing someone else’s song out loud. Drake has whole reference tracks which is essentially instructions on how to get on that beat.. lol that’s trash imo
@@R2TheM yeh..trash to you, money in the bank to the writer and the artist
@@purplemindstate4303 simple minds default to the money I see.. no pride in the creative passion. That’s the difference between pop fans and hip hop fans.
@@R2TheM At the end of the day who wrote what does not matter as long as money is being made.. Fans don't care as long as they're enjoying the music. None of Drakes biggest critics have been able to take his spot.
i respect dude with the OnePlus
Can ya plz do a segment on How to become a ghost writer. I'm trying to become that
I loved this discussion!!!
Short answer; No. I don’t trust anyone’s opinion if you say otherwise.
Legendary shit math
Kanye and drake have been carrying the rap game ,its the reason alot of people in the rap game are able to make alot of money of it
Wtf
I know what he meant.
How can rap be at the top, and compete with other genres if people in rap don't work together like people in other genres do
@alexander harvey everything drake does gets credited to the rap game not pop
Why do you think Swizz said that if you wrote a verse for another artist that's on your song, you can spit that joint in a Verzuz battle! Ghostwriting needs its own category at this point.
The brother in the AirMax is right people accept ghostwriting once we know from the start. You be the one of the greats if it doesn’t come from your mind so drake could have the title of chat topper most number ones greatest selling whatever but never in top 10s or goat conversation
Skyzoo?
@@namehere3155 ?
@@seanmurdock2279 his name is Skyzoo
@@namehere3155 thanks 👊🏾
@@seanmurdock2279 agreed if it doesn't come from your mind you shouldn't be a top ten artist tho!
Rapper maybe???...because it's become a symbiotic relationship cause many ghost writers can't break big because of their flow or image. May of the cause of their flow tho. Cause some can have a barely existent underground following, but do great with hits as a ghostwriter...
The part about kanye got me trippin.. never in a million years did I think Kanye didn’t write his own shit … Crazy
You know what’s crazy.....Some surprising rappers I heard DONT write they own shit all the time....lil Wayne, French Montana, Rick Ross !!! I heard 50 cent also be having ghost writers too !!!
Like Jay z said when he wrote for dre and snoop it had to fit them perfectly
No. True rappers write their own rap song.
Both of them having ghost writers is the hilarious part
Jim Definitely Came Up.
at the end of the day i’d rather be a better ARTIST over a RAPPER cuz ARTISTS make more money and have more reach
yes, you can be the best rapper with a ghostwriter.
if presidents can have amazing speeches with ghostwriters.
it’s a boss move.
having a ghostwriter and still being considered top 10. you got to say that it’s working for them.
yes...n...no...they gh👻st write OUR° wh🌍le history...you tink' that was a boss...move...[i say/talk Respectfully' when i ever comment just so anyONE knewz]...✨
@@ge3362 thanks for the comment. i respect your viewpoint. from some of the guess on the show. it’s seems that ghostwriting is a known part of the game. i mean jay-z and others have written classics for Dre and others. when i say boss move. it’s more of on both sides of the coin finding their lane. the game is about finding out how to get to the top.
i wish i knew that back than...lolol with all myArtist i had...some on sound cloud...type in G entertainment33 Da`Otherz was so hot...i didnt want to let them go/show to Da`Bag was in Da`Air per say! (i learned i SHOULD of gave it to Da`People for free...since We' make/produce at ease/same day type fl🌊w...n went from there)...now everybody everywhere all over...Da`🌍...✨
U ARE A DISGRACE TO THE TRUE ART OF HIP HOP/RAP
@@jameshamilton5947 much respect. true hip was a beautiful thing. true hip hop ain’t popular anymore.
the best driver ain’t the best mechanic.
the best mechanic ain’t the best driver.
them working together though the can win the race. true hip hop is fading away and being replaced by industry exec getting return on their investment. if it takes ghostwriters so be it as long as it’s a hit.
YES ofcrouse you can, BUT not based on the songs that was written by others, that wouldn't even make sense, if Drake didn't write 'back to back'' it matters, but if Drake didn't write Hotline Bling, WHO CARES lol its all about context
True
Son got them lime green maxy on
Check your favorite artists writing credits on any albums.
Including Jay Z who’s in Math top 3 but people move the goal post for certain people
@@dloftan5539 what song post it?
@@shady6152 you clearly don’t read the credits or buy albums
You know that Songwriting credits doesn’t mean just writing the actual lyrics right!?
@@dloftan5539 you clearly don’t understand the credits of album
Mase taught and wrote for Jim.
math be Instigating 😂 “ this nigga sounds like he has a list of niggas that be getting written for” 😂
Math is a man of culture. I see that OnePlus 7 Pro in ya hand 👀👀👀✊🏾✊🏾
oh you know I ghost write right ??? oh im synonymous lol
If U do not write ur own shit U cannot be in the G.O.A.T. conversation
Damn got a nigga wanting to get this ghost writing bag. Especially for these mumble rappers.
I feel like being the best rapper and the best mc is different. I would consider an mc as someone who writes and kills versus but rapping is more than just verses it's style, flow, cadence, performance and other variables other than just jotting a bar down. So I feel like Drake could possibly be the best rapper as far as a full package but the ghost writing could possibly mess up his mc legacy RS. However I believe he nice rather he has a ghost writer or not imo, you can't be in the game crazy long and not be one of the best.
I am personally a major Drake Stan. I followed his career for a very long time and from the very early mixtapes. I was always the first to put Drakes name up there as one of the best MC’s... UNTIL, I heard the reference tracks. Once I heard the reference tracks, it was over for me. I still appreciate and love Drakes music but he simply can’t be put in the same category as the great MC’s before him because of this hiccup. Who knows what else he doesn’t write.
Drake & Kanye can not be on any top lyricist list . They have teams of writers.
Where is the rest of this video? Love the content interviewing elite emcees like Ransom, Royce, Skyzoo, Mickey Factz, etc.
diddy damn stole craig mack’s bars all the time!
No. You have to write your bars. This is why hip hop is the best form of music.
Short answer: NO
The only help you can get is when you are in a room with your homies, and they offer advice, like you should say this... well, that’s ok.
Ghostwriting for rappers is like shooting shots for pro ball players.
Hip Hop and how it started was originality at starting minus buisness. "enough said".
If we talking about hip hop then you could never be nice if you spit someone else’s rhymes period.
Jay stole half of Biggie's lyrics so that disqualifies him
The obvious answer is no. They can't be considered the best rappers/MC with ghostwriters writing their shit. They can be the best artist or entertainer but not best rapper/MC.
We have to make a distinction between best rapper and best hip-hop artist.
Kanye is one of the greatest hip-hop artists of all time, maybe the very best in many people's eyes. However, he's not in the top 100 in terms of lyricism. Especially given that most of his stuff is written by someone else.
King Los is a top tier rapper. But he isn't a great hip-hop artist. He doesn't have hit records, he doesn't have iconic anthems, he doesn't have classic albums and those albums/mixtapes don't sell well either.
For me the greatest rapper of all time is Black Thought. I felt that way for a long time and I still think that now. However, the greatest artist for me is without a doubt 2Pac. He has everything I want from an artist. He has the albums, the iconic moments, the iconic songs, the sheer variety of songs, hit record after hit record. The crazy thing is, he did it all over a very short period of time.
No one can compare to him in hip-hop, as far as artistry is concerned. Don't shoot me down in the comments. I'll take every commenter that wants it, but I'd rather have a fruitful discussion. ✌🏾
Brooo! I say the same shit for my barbering! TaylorMade!!
Nahhhhh Hell No You Can't Be The Best Rapper Wit Ghost Writer's Now You Can Be The Best "Singer" Wit A Ghost Writer Cause Its About The Vocals 🙌🏾