I was a H-D Master Tech and did all the service schools for Buell in Milwaukee. I can say that H-D used the Buell as a test bed for many engineering and emissions requirements that were coming down the pipeline. Erik Buell was a great asset to them. It was sad to see him go.
I have a 2003 Buell XB9S. Great bike with about 92HP, also, it's a much much lighter bike. Dry weight of a sportster is around 553lbs, dry weight of an XB9S is around 385lbs. Instant power to weight ratio increase. The handling too is exceptional.
Both, I've built several Sportsters for performance (myself, I own my own shop) including my current 03R that exceeds 65 MPH in first gear, and anyone who thinks that's a lie come on by Uniontown Pa and I'll show you otherwise, and bring money, you won't be the first person who lost money to me thinking it's impossible for a stock stroke/bore 1200 to hit 65 MPH in first gear. I've also owned an XB9 Buell that on the winding mountain roads where I live will absolutely tear up my CBR929RR Honda Erion Racing Edition, unless that Honda gets some long straightaways to stretch it's legs out it doesn't stand a chance against the XB9, that Buell is the single most maneuverable motorcycle I've ever ridden in my life. First off concerning Buell's and the Harley engines they run the first real production street machine that Buell produced had the mighty XR1000 engine on it, these were leftover engines from after Harley canceled production of the XR1000 Sportster. After that Buell started using stock crate 1200 Evo engines for a time until he designed the Thunderstorm heads and pistons for the 1200 engines going on his bikes, these were basically an attempt to copy the Branch #4 head*, but of course Harley manufactured them in a way he didn't want them made, at the end of the day they didn't really work any better than the stock 1200 heads except the ports flowed a little better, where Harley screwed them up was to try casting the angled squish band into the heads, this won't work, they must be machined in to get the proper effect, the heads actually had a step at the outer edge of it's squish band, unfortunately this sloppy fit not only cancelled the effect of the squish band but it also turned it into a giant detonation trap that required the timing to be pulled back reducing potential power. The series of heads manufactured like that also had two different squish band angles, 10° and 15°, unfortunately Weisco only offered their pistons for both series of heads for the 10° heads further complicating matters and making potential power losses even worse. Next came the XB series engine, this is where the squish problem got straightened out by running a flat squish with the area on the head being machined in the style of a TC bathtub type chamber, which is a Branch #3 head*, the cases were redesigned to be for a dedicated use on Buells and the rotation of the cams were reversed (don't worry if you have an XB engine though, aftermarket cams will still work because the cam lobe profile is identical on both sides, however the cam driven by the pinion must have the gear pressed off and reinstalled so it's timing mark is oriented in the proper location but doing that is no big deal), the most advanced form of this engine being for the XB RR engines, they eliminated the traditional Sportster engine design oil pump and moved the gerator style pump gears directly onto the end of the pinion shaft eliminating the troublesome oil pump drive gear on the pinion shaft (if you have a Sportster built for performance or the regular XBR engine then get an aftermarket bronze drive gear that goes on the pinion shaft, problem solved). The XB9 engine is basically the same as an XB12 engine except that the stroke was shortened by ½" to make for a higher revving engine, Eric Buell had originally intended for the XB9 to be a turbo charged engine that would have produced around 120 HP, with the XB being as light and maneuverable as it is if the XB9 had been introduced in '03 with it's intended turbo and low cost (obviously it would have cost a little more with the turbo but still would have cost much less than any foreign motorcycle with less performance), but once again Harley had to step in and they screwed it up, Buell had cut a deal with the turbo manufacturer Aerodyne to produce their variable vane turbos for the XB9 and he had a working prototype bike and had everything ready to go, even the ECU's were already produced, then the IDIOT'S at Harley had to step in and and demand that they design the turbo system inhouse, they screwed it up so bad that when it came time to produce the bike the turbo had to be dropped and the XB9 wound up being manufactured with a normally aspirated engine, even though it was normally aspirated it's still a machine that will tear up any other motorcycle on a winding road, had Harley not stuck their noses in it the turbo XB9 would have been a motorcycle that'd be legendary, however if you have an XB9 putting a turbo on one is a fairly simple endeavor since the ECU's were already made to drive a turbo system they will still work when a turbo is bolted on, the XB12 is a different story since ECU work is required. After the XB series of bikes came the Rotax powered Buell's which was basically an XB with Buell's engine design manufactured by Rotax, an interesting part of the XB story is the the V-rod engine was originally supposed to be the powerplant for the XB, but when Porsche got done with it Buell didn't want it saying it was too big and heavy for his needs, so after paying Porsche all that money to develop it Harley was stuck with it and in an attempt to recover the money they designed that half assed chassis it wound up in. * Branch Flowmetrics is a company that was started by Jerry Branch an ex service manager at Memphis HD, he moved to Signal Hill California and started Branch Flowmetrics, they worked directly with the University of California Los Angeles and wrote engineering books concerning air flow through engines that are used in their engineering classes, students studying engineering are taken on tours through Branchs' facilities, Jerry Branch did research work for Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki, Kawasaki, NASA, Ford, General Motors, Chrysler and too many other companies to list, once he did research for Sears and Roebuck to redesign the ductwork in one of their vacuum cleaners, when they assembled their vaccum cleaner with his redesigned ductwork and turned it on it pulled down to the carpeting so hard it couldn't be moved, as a result they installed a less powerful motor in it and used that as a selling feature. It was Kawasaki that funded a research program by Branch in the 70's to develop a better combustion chamber for their racing team, it was this research that led to the development of angled squish bands and the different combustion chambers known as Branch #1, #2, #3 and #4 heads, when Harley developed the Evo engine from the ashes of the canceled Nova Project of the late 70's (which was contracted to Porsche) they fly Jerry Branch to Milwaukee every weekend to work on finalizing the head design for the Evo engine, he designed the ports and Harley selected the Branch #2 head combustion chamber for it which is the D shape that they use, he wanted them to go with the #4 head which that had the 30° squish band but Harley didn't want the expense of having to machine the angled squish band into the head, Harley selected the #3 Branch head "bathtub" style chamber for the TC engine. Jerry Branch finalized the ports and combustion chambers for every Harley engine, including the V-rod, since and including the Evo engine, even before the Evo he'd tried to tell Harley that the ports in their engines were too big and that velocity suffered as a result, they finally started to listen to him starting with the Evo, most likely this is because he did the heads for every XR750 factory racing engine and every single set of XR1000 engines made by Harley, they shipped every head for the XR1000's to his shop in California to be worked over by him. The only services ever offered to the public by Branch Flowmetrics are the performance modifications of Harley Davidson heads, despite having done heads and research for NASCAR and Indy racing teams along with many others the only service available to the public remains Harley Davidson head modifications, the research work he did for so many countless racing teams and others was just for the sake of collecting the data that resulted from them funding the research, he was THE master of flowing air/fuel mixtures through a port and combustion chamber and was an ace that us Harley riders have always had in our pocket, before he passed away several years back Jerry Branch had forgotten more about airflow than any one else will ever know, there's not a single engine manufacturer in the world that hasn't benefited from the exhaustive research that he did over the years, and it all started out with him being the service manager at Memphis HD pumping up engines for customers there including Elvis Presley, before he became famous and was just a poor high school kid with a constantly broken 2 stroke Harley Branch would fix Elvis' bike for him for free and Elvis never forgot that, after he became a famous star he demanded that every new Harley he bought for himself or the members of his Memphis Mafia were to be delivered to Graceland by Branch himself and that he give them riding lessons at his estate, legend has it that he paid him so well to do it that that's where Branch got the money to move to California and start his business, so the next time some poor high school kid needs help with his motorcycle help him out, because you never know.
Does anyone else feel like that when Erik passes we will be losing an icon that most of the motorcycle world doesn't even know about. What a dude. Much respect.
Absolutely, his bikes for sure could compete on the world stage if he just got the backing and the support to develop them. I am very happy he's back in business even if it's only in exclusive limited numbers, hopefully this is just a starting point.
Hes built some of the best handling unique bikes ever made. The EBR1190 was an extremely underrated bike watching what it did in AMA superbike while limited by the ama rules and a small team in Wisconsin on a hair thin budget.
I think that when Harley-Davidson separated from the Buell program they made one of the most detrimental mistakes they could have ever made. Having your name attached to a partnership that makes the only American made Supersport Cafe styled bike is a winner of a deal. Eric Buell gave younger more aggressive riders one of the best canyon carving platforms ever built and used an engine that gave them such torque that transitioning chicanes was as simple as letting off and grabbing a wristfull of throttle. I have ridden just about ever brand of sport bike produced from 1986 to present day and nothing that I have ridden in an off the showroom floor format has ever handled in the twisties the way an XB 9R or XB 12R has. Those bikes were like riding on a 2 wheeled V-Twin monorail. I cannot count the number of times I scraped the pegs on the ground when my knee was touching tarmac in a turn because that bike went deeper than any other bike on the market and could leave a turn with the bike 45 degrees two different ways the front wheel reaching for the heavens while riding the outside of the rear tire. When Eric Buell leaves this realm for the next there will be no American made GP styled machines produced and the twisties of America will once again require a European or Asian bike to enjoy high speed knee dragging rips. He will forever live in infamy as the lone American Supersport motorcycle visionary.
They had a terrible CEO that knew nothing about motorcycles what so ever when he killed Buell off. He called them kid's toys that no one wants, he couldn't of been farther off the mark. That market was really gaining strength when he killed Buell.
They were hurting financially while Buell was turning a profit at the time they sold them out. But I think the Rotax powered Buell 1125R sportbike championship win was too much humiliation for HD to not screw Buell over. Egos were decimated on that win.
03 Buell owner since new and is still pissed it happened to the greatest thing that Harley had going. The bikes were phenomenal. Harley bought Ducati with no money coming in then very quickly had to liquidate everything.
I have an 06 Lightning XB12SS Long parked in my garage. Erick Buell certainly created an amazing motorcycle. This is a bike, I plan on owning for as long as I can.
The xb12ss is the best model made. The long is the most comfortable for some one from 5-10+ i wish i never sold mine. I had a red xb12ss with 9k miles and sold it for 3500 in 2019 😓
Those tube frame Buells were (still are) cult bikes in Europe and the UK. Wonderful motorcycles where roads are short and not in a straight line for a hundred miles. 'Mercans never really got it, bar a few.
The down draft setup did make it into a sportster. The XR1200. This also was the only sportster that had the updated 2008+ Buell crankshaft that was 3 lbs lighter than the stock sporty crank.
I own a 2010 XR1200. I love it. It is a great South Florida bike. Owning a Supersport is silly due to our flat roads at sea level and they are north to south and east to west. It is not a easy bike to ride. I have been riding for over 40++ years. Sportbikes and sopermotos. In my opinion it is not a good streetbike. It is a 5 speed and with a 70mph speed limit on freeways everybody does well over 80. The XR is revving at 5000 RPM. Other Harleys are at around 2500 according to my friends and it depends on the model. That is why most XRs went to the track.
@@KevXRDuke I own an XR1200X and one of the mod’s that I did was the ‘Scotty Mod’ or change to a higher gearing. Now I’m not searching for an extra gear down the highway. It’s a fun bike. :)
@@raybanbunny ...I know exactly what you mean. Every bike that I have owned since the early 1980s had 6 gears. Even the Kawi 250 supermoto I had before the XR had 6 gears. Unlike the DRZ. Here in Florida I mostly ride around town and take short trips around Lake Okeechobee to open it up. I go out where there are no cars, people, cops or houses. I like the way it is geared. If I did go far distances I would definitely change the gearing. I have a friend who races one and obviously he converted to chain and changed the gearing to get more top end. I think he runs around 145. I did bump up my redline with my Power Commander to 7300 RPM. So it faster. 125 is easy. 130 in a full tuck on a straight road. It depends if I get on it. A 58 I still like to ride fast but I haven't gotten a ticket in well over 20 years. Lots and lots of warnings but I am trying to keep it that way. I will never sell my bike and it will go to my 12 year old son. He races supermoto and BMX.
Road raced a Buell for years. Love them. Still ride my 08 Lightning every week. The race bike was making over 100hp at the tire with pretty minimal work.
Harley Davidson made a huge strategic mistake in severing their relationship with motorcycle engineer Erik Buell - a cost-cutting measure to preserve cash, maintain their dividend payout and make it appear to shareholders that all was well. Nothing could have been further from the truth. The motorcycle market today is flourishing, and Harley just announced their 22nd quarter of falling sales. Why? Quite simply, they failed to design the motorcycles back then, that people want to buy today. Erik Buell could have been tasked to design products for the now lucrative racing, sport-touring, and adventure segment of the marketplace. He had the skills and credibility to make HD a player in these markets. Instead, he was dropped and cut loose. A glaring example of zero vision and short-term thinking. There will be no pulling Harley-Davidson out of its nose-dive this time. I predict that in 18-24 months HD (HOG) will delist, be taken private, and emerge a much smaller company no longer beholden to shareholders and the quarterly reporting requirements of publically traded companies. I see no other path for their survival.
Buell was way ahead of his time and he was a visionary that saw what the MoCo could be in 20 years. Now the MoCo is trying to pull it together and start doing what should of been done 20 years ago. As soon as I saw the first Pan America design my mind went right back to the Buell Ulysses.
Agree 100%, Harley will go private for the reasons you stated. They drug their feet on the new Sportster water cooled engine, it looks like a winner but it is to little to late to remain a major player. They also overpriced it above the competition, and the market it is selling to Brand Name is not the King as in the big twin cruisers. It is destined to, yep survive but being a basically a cottage brand name selling a handful of product annually.
Buell and the V-rod are two opportunities that HD just blew completley. However the turn around plan you offer isnt novel and has been the standard take for a decade. We'll see if it ever actually happens.
@@willstikken5619 perhaps hostile take over and scrap it or sell it.sad but HD has earned this. Declare bankruptcy.to get the investers out. Maybe reorganize. Perhaps a fire sale. Or hostile take over. As long as I can get parts I couldn't care less. Tons of aftermarket. ID love to see fresh oversight over the brand. Maybe the government would bail them out. Need another Iaccoca to save em.
Omg buell the american sportbike what outstanding bikes they were,and still are! After 20 + years wrenching and owning lots of different bikes,I purchased a 02 thunderbolt, last year of the thunderbolt and tube frame buells. It was just so good! 101 bhp 90 ft lb of glorious torque out of the box, fully adj showa usd forks and showa underslung shock,6 piston front brake,fuel injection and rubber mounted motor, years before available on a hd! It was a masterpiece of engineering and had fantastic styling! The later bikes were even more awesome, with fuel in frame,liquid cooled motors and in excess of 140 bhp in a super lightweight package Erik buell was a motorcycle enginering mastermind! God I have to get another buell
I worked at a dealership and we had a multi-dealer ride of around 350 miles. It was huge fun. Out of the sea of Harley's my Buell M2 Cycle stood out. A couple of upper management types were walking by and I was standing within ear shot but not by my bike. Once says to the other "hey, look, a Buell!" To which the other replied "i sure wish we had that brand back." My Buell was a very comfortable bike on that trip.
I used to have an 04 XB12r and it will always be my favorite motorcycle. The frame design of those bikes truly made them one of the best handling sports bikes. And the low end torque of that Thunderbolt engine made for a truly one of a kind riding experience. I'll always regret selling mine but I'll own another again no doubt.
Ever rode an 1125R/CR? For most part same bike except fairing and motor. Well that motor cost Buell the whole deal in my opinion. Constantly improving everything about the sporty motor and then throwing not HD motor at it that made HD motor into a statue?Pft! sadly Eric has resolved to get out of that world and was doing amazing things in the Electric MC/bike feild. Maybe he does so great the Livewire gets canceled.
@Scott Bridges I never have sadly. Always wanted a CR or one of the newer 1190s. I did end buying an 06 XB12Ss since I posted this comment. However I don't enjoy the Lightning like I did the Firebolt. Naked bikes just aren't for me I guess.
I remember when the V-rod was new, there was a "traveling test ride fleet" that came to the HD dealership in Belton, TX. I rode the original version of the V-rod-loved the powertrain, but hated the rider position and general layout. Then rode the Buell 1200 Lightening. That was a thoroughly wonderful ride on some TX twisty back roads. I loved everything about that bike.
Great video, I don't understand why you don't have more likes ! I have a 2010 XB12x and it's easily the best handling motorcycle I've ever ridden. My Ulysses is also the motorcycle that I've modified the absolute least in order to make it comfortable and what I would consider, rideable. It didn't need to be "uncorked" or suspension changed, saddle changed, etc, etc, etc. My only issue with the bike as delivered was the stock flycatcher and windscreen was a whiplash inducing travesty but that got replaced immediately with a Madstad setup that has been superb. I did buy a set of Twisted Throttle hard bags and frame which have been awesome and a remapped ECU that quite frankly was a waste of money. The bike already ran great but I had to see for myself... The stock bike has more than enough power to get one into trouble, obviously not the quickest or most powerful by a long shot but I consider the power delivery to be perfect for the way I ride the bike here in the San Juan mountains of southwest Colorado. There are more gravel forest service roads than I'll probably ever have the time to get to and the bike is very comfortable at speed on the highways and is an absolute blast here in the mountains ! I never plan on selling it which is something I can't say about all the other bikes I've ever owned !
The Ulysses was ahead of it's time, Harley had a ADV bike just before that market took off and they canned it. The XB bikes were really onto something, you had a hot rod power to the ground Harley motor in a chassis that really handled. You could run with anything in the twisties, those motors were already at peak power turn to turn. A 4 cylinder sport bike you were shutting down just as the power came on.
Hi, is the 12X easier to handle than a BMW 1200/1250GS? I rode those in Europe many times on moto tours up in the Alps, and was marginal for me to handle at low speeds due mostly to weight/seat height and general layout. Frankly I think the GS is way overrated. I would love to get me an XB12x. I'm 5'7", 31" inseam. All my bikes were always Ducati's, starting back 35 years ago, but at this stage, I'm done with sport bikes. Looking for something unique (like Ducati was 30 years ago) and admire what Erik Buell have done to the sport.
@@jdesmo1 I think the Uly is probably easier to handle as long as it's one of the later one's or if an earlier model, has the upgraded steering head with the reduced radius fork locks. The Uly is quite a bit lighter and somewhat smaller than a GS and though tall, they're a little shorter than a GS. You may be better off with an XT for it's shorter seat height than the X bikes and I think the XT's all came equipped with the improved steering heads. Also, I think it may have been the '08 Uly's that experienced some crankshaft issues but not sure... Badweatherbikers.com would be a great resource for research and keep an eye on the classifieds section. These bikes have gotten to be very inexpensive ! Good luck with whatever you decide to do !
@@aabikrman agree with you totally. I think the crank issue was on the '07. Also in '08 they made improvements to the oiling system from knowledge gained through racing. I'd love to ride with you in that area of Colorado..what a great experience. I also have a 2010 12X. The thing about the 2008+ was most little bugs were worked, and the 2010 has the 3 bearing rear wheels. Still see the old Buell staff quite often as I live a couple of miles from East Troy.
@@jdesmo1 hello mate, i can tell you something about it. I often drive the 1200gs professionally and have an xb12x privately. the gs is much easier to drive than the buell. the chassis tuning is like on rails and very safe with bmw. this is a clear difference in contrast to the buell. you first have to get used to the buell, but after that it's no longer an issue and it can be beaten through the curves just like the safe GS1200. in my opinion, the xb12 engine is significantly livelier, more powerful and has more torque than the bmw engine from comparable years. So if you want a bike with character and a unique engine, the buell is for you. When buying, just pay attention to the year of construction, as some years of construction had problems with the oil pump sprocket. regards
I've owned a couple of hot rod Sportsters in my younger years. I looked at Buells once, back around 2000, but decided that they were too short for me and not real comfortable. I was mid 40's at the time so maybe I was just too old for a sport bike by then. I always liked them though - impressive technology. I have loved all of my Sportsters. Nothing like a Harley that you can throw around like a dirt bike!
Buells were not the most comfortable bikes, they had a hellacious riding position. The Ulysses adventure bike was probably their most comfortable bike, it was way ahead of its time though. The ADV market has exploded today, that bike was in on the ground floor back in its day when Harley axed it.
Eric Buell actually upgraded the Sportster engine quite a bit. Eric wasn't satisfied with the rather frail Sportster engine. You seem to forget to mention that the Cases, crankshaft, cylinders and heads along with the clutch and even the transmission gears were much more robust and not just slightly improved upgrades. It was more akin to comparing a 2 bolt main, cast crank, small port Chevy Small Block to a Z28 302 engine. Yep they are in the same family but that is about it. If you notice the Buell Blast was based off of the Buell V-twin and they were practically bullet proof, yep they strangled them down with a small carb and a intake track that would best be described as a air tilt a whirl for the air/fuel mixture and a muffler that looked like a surfboard and weighed a ton. Wife has a Blast and with a few minor modifications it is rather impressive.
Buell did a lot for the Sportster motor, I kinda feel like Harley piggy backed off his advancements and put them into production on the Sportster without giving Buell the credit he deserved.
@@GixxerFoo have been involved in motorcycles for the past 50 years and by far the upgrades Eric did to the crappy, at best, Sportster engine was epic. Basically he rebuilt the engine so it would not self destruct in a short period of time when ran hard.
@@bigsea1306didn't know who the author of the changes was, but he did a good job in upgrading the frailty of the Sportster engine significantly. Listen to HD guys and they downplay the massive improvements to the Sportster engine, All Praise Harley, types that said it was simply a slight production change to make it simply different than a Sportster engine. But for some strange reason these were the same guys that cross decked Buell parts to personal Sportsters if the parts were available. Most Buells are being ran like hell and are still running, now how many Sportsters run hard from the same era have performed show and tell of their internals on the highway?
Buell was a true engineer. There is a XB that has been sitting in my local HD dealership with a 25k hanging price tag. Thanks for your effort on this video it was quite informative
Buell is an amazing engineer, he always thought out of the box. Lol the guy is even a musician with his own band. If I had money to burn I would pay 25K for a new Buell XB today, as long as they threw in a new set of tires cause I'd still be a cheapskate with 25K to burn lol.
Erik Buell created a remarkable bike considering what he had to work with. Unfortunately it was just not my type of bike. I wouldn't mind having a Buell Ulysses, but you can't get parts for them anymore. Still, ALL Buells with the Sportster based engine were light years ahead of the EBR 1190RX, which he designed and built under the EBR name. While I am not a sport bike guy (I got my first cruiser at age 18, and am still riding them, with a couple of Goldwings thrown in) At least they had some soul and character. The 1190RX was just like it's Japanese counterparts, devoid of anything but spec sheet performance. IF I wanted to do sport riding, I'd get a single cylinder supermoto.
@@carlbruhn1772 I believe you and I've been past that dealership. On the old north/south US 17. They're insane. I own a brand-new-in-crate XB12 lightning never even dealer prepped and it's not worth half that much.
I’ve owned 2 Buell motorcycles an S3 and an X1 also worked at a H-D dealership when the XB models all of then are amazing bikes so much fun to ride and surprised many a sport bike guy in the twisties I wish I still had my S3 I had that motor right but life happens Don’t forget the brakes on the XB models front brakes were great
The XB's brakes are insane! I had a GSX-R 1000 back in 2005 when I was introduced to a XB, the guy who owned it could fly in the twisties with us. I swapped bikes with him one day and I swear that thing handled better than my Gixxer.
We ran Buells for many years, XB12Scg and XB12X. Very well thought out designs from the braking to the frame fuel tank to the engine oil tank in the swing arm low C of G with the exhaust slung very low. Nimble and light with decent HP and great torque. We found they were very reliable and provided good service . Just can’t get parts in Canada so we changed them out to Ducati’s .
I just rebuilt my engine (I mean a shop did, not me) and had some other goodies installed after I almost died last year. The bike rides 100% now and I am loving it this summer. 2009 XB12Ss. Bought a 'shitty' example and took 2 years of sourcing parts here and there and a bunch of money. I'm on the east coast (PEI). Best mod on the bike is the FatBob LED horizontal headlight unit. Night driving is now a breeze.
Bought a new xb9r firebolt in 03 and still love It. Has 75000 miles and still hauls ass,revs like no v45 should, corners like it's on rails. Amazingly reliable, Always gets attention,it is a work of art. The sportster benefits from the Buell tec that was developed for this bike. Harley wanted to keep displacement traditional 883 and 1200 so no screaming 984cc for them. They also have the oil filter up front to keep the look of the old generator location ,again for tradition. Things reversed, it became a Buell motor on a sportster. Originally was a sportster motor on a Buell. Still upsetting Buell was killed off. Just a killer machine. Even thinking about a parts bike to keep it alive if anything terrible happens. I'll keep it till I'm dead!
I've had an X1 for 20 years and it's always a blast to ride especially on the twisties. Strangely the equivalent year Sportster would bring a higher price resale than the Buell despite the latter being a much better bike all round. Niche market i guess
I look for the Buell Lightning (both the old and new) everyone in a while. Here in Kansas they must be well loved or very scarce. Rarely see one on the road. (last sighting was over a year ago).
"A Hot-Rod Sportster"...Well, yes...I own a 1972 Sporty with a SPUTHE top end, 80 cubic inches with dual carbs, XR type cams, intakes and exhaust...it's sort of a BIG XR 750 and only 390 pounds....Built in 1980, just like the August Cover of Cycle World....here, 41 years later, still scary fast...!! I like that knucklehead poster behind you...I've got a '46 with S&S 93" sidewinder...keeps up with the new Big Twins.....
That's some serious RAW power right there, these newer bikes are a lot smoother. The new ones don't feel like they want to tear you off the back like the older bikes did.
Got to call a Bravo Serra on this one 390 pounds, is that without the engine? Worked on a early Sporty, the Iron Heads didn't flow worth a shit and this issue was compounded by the compression crown of the piston to get compression. The Iron Heads retained heat badly so pre-ignition was a constant issue. The 4 speed gearbox wasn't all that reliable and NEEDED another gear or a much wider ratio. Had a old 67 Triumph 650 for years and till I sold her EVERY Sportster encountered came out second best. And yes it weighed in at a true 390 lbs.
I remember receiving the edition of "Cycle" (or "Cycle World"...I still enjoy reading it and looking at the pictures) with that beautiful Sportster on the cover (I believe it was entitled "The Aluminum Steam Roller"...if memory serves me correctly) and how the owner raced it on the track against KZ's (and winning). If I recalled correctly, it posted a mid 10 second quarter mile at around 130 mph. That black bike with the XLCR tank (with gold Harley-Davidson classic badge), massively finned Sputh Cylinder heads and cylinders, dual Del-Ortos, flat track tail section with cafe bars and front fender in one of the most beautifully bad-ass motorcycles to ever grace a magazine cover. Congratulations on your prize XL.
@@thomasheer825 Well, I weighed my SPUTHE Sporty on a Scale, came in at about 390....that was a scale used to weigh materials at a welding store, a scale with weights, not a 'spring' type scale...it was certified to be 1% accurate. It has a very light Honda 400 front fork/wheel/disc brake...aluminum oil tank that I made, a 3# battery, a 2# Steve Fredricks alternator...stock 72 Sporty gas tank...minimal rear 'fender', just enough to hold a license plate...kick-start only. S&S flywheels, rods and 3-5/8" pistons. Stock Sporty frame (so it's registered and insurance as a 'stock' 72) and swingarm. I have a couple pics if you would like to see.
@@stillbill6408 thanks! I contacted Alan Sputhe as soon as I read that article. I was living in Los Angeles and met with him just days later, and he built me an engine...it was 3rd or 4th one...his Shop assistant Joel Yamazaki was building a bike with the same type engine, serial# of heads preceding mine...Joel was planning on a 'turbo' on that one.
I really like how you take a good look at Harleys going back up to 30+ years. A lot of us are still riding bikes from these years & your channel fills in some of the gaps. Are you contactable outside of this chsnnel? You're a good guy.....Dave from NZ.
No problem, the Rubber mounts have excellent heads! A Hammer 1275, 10.5:1 compression pistons, Hammer 560 cam, good exhaust and a dyno tune will make it happen.
I've loved sportsters since the 60's. I've had two ironheads and several evos. There is a dirt track near here that still races old sporties which is always fun to watch. I had much respect for Buells, too bad what Harley did to Eric Buell.
I still remember the Sportster Performance Series in pro flat track when they ran 883's. Now they've got the Hooligan racing but you've got to run the stock frame.
I have a Dyna and two sportsters, one an XR1200, and the other a Buell Millenium. The XR has immediate throttle response, and if you haven`t ridden anything fast lately it feels like it runs pretty good. All that being said, the Buell with way more power and a bunch less weight, will absolutely leave it for dead. Both have the same amount of miles, between five and six thousand miles. The Buell is a much smoother engine and the transmission is a lot smoother shifting. They both handle pretty good with the XR being top heavy at slower speeds, and downright clumsy to move around, with the footpegs in a very poor position for a standard bike. The Buell has none of those problems and given a good curvy road to hold my attention, I can ride it all day. If you just have to have a sporty Harley, the older tube frame Buell`s like mine are a much better choice overall than a Sportster.
Its is of note that the Xb Crank can be retrofitted into a earlyer buell and sportster case with a bit of machining of the cases Also the xb cranks where later used in the XR1200
GixxerFoo yeah mine has the thunderstorm engine just before the last 2009 I believe mine has silver coating yet the 2009 I think has black cylinders ..
I wish I would of bought one back when they were everywhere, now they are getting hard to find. Either tore up or in such great shape you don't want to put the miles on it lol.
@@GixxerFoo I actually bought mine in December 2004. It was awesome!! I put a k&n filter, race ecm, technelusion box, and a Drummer pipe on it!! Everytime I went to the track or on our secluded road!! Lol Everyone loved hearing it at high rpm and top speed!! It handled so great on the track!! I myself couldn't or wouldn't push it to it's limits!! Lol The best upgrade were the Pilot Power tires!! The stock Dunlops were awful!! Trail braking in a corner one time!! The bike just stood up!! I went off track in 3rd gear!! I had to seat bump a ditch at Putnam Park road course!! Lol
I ran pilot powers too, awesome tires! That Buell so little rake is was dangerous lol. Reminded of the old CBR 900 with the 16 inch front tire it turned so fast.
Yes it was! Lol with that short wheel base I would be afraid to put a passenger on there. Your passenger better know how to ride to cause the front end going up.
i had three buells. 2005 firebolt, a blast i bought for my second wife to ride, and the last was a 2007 lightning scg....and that last one was my favorite. only bike i had i liked as much was my 96 springer. anyhow.....the great thing about the buells was that they would pull in any gear and were absolute razorblades in the corners. i am not a guy that pushing into corners hard, but those things made even sharp corners almost boringly easy. i LOVED those bikes...and damn harley for doing what they did. they were not top end monsters....but they sure were a fun, practical bike.
Concur, re the trapdoor. On a Sporty it does not weaken the design having it there, and from a mechanic's pov, it is sooo easy to pull a transmission. Definetely accountants winning over engineers on that one. Prolly saved a Dollar per motor.....
I rode my 2002 Buell M2 Cyclone to work every day for 2 years. I'm working on restoring and upgrading it now. I also have a 1971 ironhead Sportster, definitely two completely different bikes and riding styles. I could push my Sportster until I felt the frame flexing and actually broke the frame twice. You definitely can't out ride the performance of the Buell.
In 2004 I picked up a 2001 M2 Cyclone with 1402 miles on it. Parked it in 2005 with 8466 miles on it. Do to ignition going bad. This year I did and aftermarket dyna ignition in the nose cone. And I'm 63 and ride it regularly.
They are getting hard to find these days. Aftermarket support is really strong on those bikes too. Lol to get one l may just have to load up the truck and road trip it.
I was under the impression that Buell also increased the crank pin diameter from 1 1/4" to 1 1/2" starting around 2008 as there were rod bearing/pin problems at high RPM with the smaller diameter pins/bearings. Is that so?
The replies 17 replies in the first question you asked... just great reading I've read them two or three times over just amazing!!! Thank you guys for your excellent information.
Sadly that's basically what happened, Harley bought about 49% originally of Buell's company and owned almost 100% by the end. I can only imagine how Buell felt having a company and idea he created that was selling a lot of bikes crushed.
@@GixxerFoo He should think about hiring a real Shark to run the business side and really just stick to the creative side. There's definatly a market for what he does. Breaking into corners is my strength so i'd love to try his later models!
I had one of the first m2 models that the dealer received. I put s1 cams and a s&s carb on it. Fun bike, but when taken to the track the single brake faded in no time. The exhaust would come lose. That was the only two issues I had with it.
Great vid my friend! The XB series are future collectibles in book. Fuel in frame and oil in swingarm, and as you said, pretty much the hottest factory Harley engine of the day! Way Cool!
I love my 03 XB9R. It has a factory buell race kit. A rare swing arm modification for chain drive conversion. Ohlins rear shock, race tech tuned forks. It's a great street/track bike. May not be a rocket like todays 600cc sport bikes. But it surely makes up for it in It's tight curvy road handling and the torque grunt out of the curves.
Buell was way ahead of it's time, and thanks to Willie G and his stupidity along with Harley, ruined the buell legacy. Funny how they crawled back to buell engineers to make the revolution max
Harley wouldn't of been hit so hard if they would of let Buell draw in new riders years ago. Buell was what got me interested in Harley, l thought they were dumb till l rode one. Once you learn that power on the Buell is all down low usable power that come on quick you forget about the top speed figures.
@@GixxerFoo for sure. Now that willie g is out of the picture, harley can finally catch up. It's because of willie g and his obsession with tRaDiTiOn, that harley never had liquid cooled motors along with other modern technology we should have already incorporated into Harleys bikes. I'm a harley mechanic and I don't own a harley, for good reason, and I love harley. But I'm going to wait to see what they replace the m8 with now that they have the revolution max. It would be awesome to see a big twin version of the revolution max motor on a road king.
Since Buell Motorcycles had been doing business (separate from Harley Davidson) for several years with the Austrian company Rotax for their really fast modern water cooled engines that were built into Buell's motorcycles later on, Harley Davidson was introduced to the Rotax engine factory at the time. This relationship has proven to be valuable because the latest generation Sportster S engines and the Sportster Pan Am engines both come from Austria (Europe) from Rotax engine block company. And so the circle is complete again
I would honestly rather see Harley reach out for assistance and build a solid product rather than a disastrous in house design. Just like when Internationa built diesels for Ford. Rock solid and unkillable, then Ford brought it in house and well that was bad lol.
@@dutchyjhome I thought HD claimed Revolution Max to be THEIR engine, although I have been suspicious of that claim all along. What is the evidence of a Rotax connection?
every sporter person riding my buell, said OMG this thing has more of every thing...(1999) ..one crotch rocket guy, as he rev'd up, lost grip on the handle bars...came back and said, never experienced that much torque on a motorcycle before...harley screwed up getting rid of the buell...even the ducati riders loved the buell.
05 sporty, 1275 hammer performance kit, massaged heads new springs 11.5 to 1 comp, 550 cams, tbr 2 into 1 exhaust with a little custom work, mukuni carb with work, digitech ign with 7400 rpm red line. 107 hp and 97 ft lbs to the rear tire. On pump gas, a little more on 110 leaded with timing added.
Aaron and Dan are awesome, l have never seen a company so truly interested in the success of your build. They aren't there to just take your money and not answer the phone.
Building a 83 XL frame with a 99 X-1 Lightening motor. Changed ignition to Ultima, CV carb and high flow air cleaner with stock Sportster crossover exhaust. TBH I wish I’d just bought a 1200S.
@@GixxerFoo I've seen a lot of videos of reviews and people talking about how great the XR is but nobody really gets into the nuts and bolts of the differences between the XR and the xl. As an XR owner I personally would love to watch that video.
Interesting information. This discussion is a big thing. Is Buell XB a HD? It's like there are two sides of that question when it comes to a discussion. You have some great facts about this forever going expertise discussion.
Yes and no, it does share some things that are compatible with a sportster but the crank and cases are not one of them. The cams will fit a Sportster they are just installed in reverse order for the XB, heads, cylinders and pistons will work but the front mount on the heads the bolt size is different. But for all intents and purposes the XB was about as far from Harley as they got.
@GixxerFoo Thanks for the Info .. I never had any desire to own a Harley definitely not one with Forward controls. So in 2010 HD spent $115 Million to shut down the new Buell Factory in Rice Lake WI and Eliminate 400 American Jobs. I really don't know a Road Hog, from a Road Couch from a Road King. Eric Buell was such a Genius that I bought a 2008 Buell Ulysses. The bike handles great, but that air Cooled V-Twin roasts your legs and crotch non stop. You forgot to mention that the Thunderstorm engine also has air scoops to cool the rear cylinder , plus an oil cooler , plus and electric fan to pull hear off from the motor even when you shut it off. On a hot day in City Traffic the gasoline in your frame gets so hot it causes vapor lock spits sputters and bogs ect. Everything works better if you can keep it up at Highway speeds. I purchased a 2006 Buell Owners manual that calls for you to use 91 Octane gas. Maybe I will have to watch your video again to recall what year they raised the compression to 10 to 1 which is quite a lot for a large air cooled cylinder. Water Injection would be a great addition to an air cooled engine.. but I can only find versions for cars like snow Performance and the size of the pumps ect are so bulky to add to a motorcycle .
I have a set of the thunderstorm heads I might put on my 1250 sporty. It has ported 883 heads on it now, runs good, I'm unsure what cams are in it cause I've yet to open the chest up.
XR 1200 Whole new animal , had any experience with them ? Factory redline 7,000 , heads oil cooled , big downdraft throttle body , I've got mine "warmed up" a little bit & it rips......
I missed one! The parts manager at my local dealer had a orange and black 09. It wasn't for sale but he rode it one day and a guy from Europe saw it and offered him stupid money. It went back to Europe with the new owner.
@@GixxerFoo They actually originally only sold the XR in Europe (2008) so many guys like me that had been building their own hot rod Sportsters (me since 1967) went nuts & raised so much hell they started selling them in USA in 2009 , did you know that Harley & Vance & Hines sponsored a spec racing class for the Bike in AMA Pro Road Racing ?
@@GixxerFoo It was the idiot new "CEO" they hired him from Johnson Controls , all he wanted was a "golden parachute" Suck a huge amount of money out of the Company & retire/get let go , he just wanted $$$$ had no real interest in the future of the Company , only his own .
I owned a XB9s and that was a great bike in many ways. But what I miss after i bought the xb12s 2005 is the driving experience. It was a very quick and easy to handle in the streets of city or on the roads with nice corners. It was totally complete with a perfect balance. What is possible to do with the xb12s to get closer to the xb9s? I heard that changing the drive line from the xb9 would get the wider acceleration range. I am located in Sweden which the xb9 both s and r only is available of the year 2003. Anyone that have been doing any modifications to the xb12s to make it more quicker and more efficient?
That XB12 is a tough act to follow, you can put a Hammer big bore kit on them but they already make a lot of power right out of the box. Those bikes are some canyon carving machines right there!
@@GixxerFoo Thanks for sharing your thoughts. The big bore from Hammer is about 1200$ if im not totally wrong. Is it worth spending that money? At the moment i have the OEM race exhaust and race ecm. Mapped by a experience company. But a friend told me to change the front sprocket from a xb9 to get better acceleration. Is it something you heard of.
There are a lot of differences: XR has different heads, not so much in terms of flow but oil passages XR has different cams, they are not .551 cams but a different grind XR has a different crank borrowed from the 2009? XB12's which allow it to rev to 7K rpm safetly XR has a different oil pump borrowed from the 2009? XB12's Gearing is also different between an XL1200 and XR. Downdraft FI for the XR
I still have my 2007 XB12Scg... I've let it sit too long and it needs to be overhauled.. Gotta find someone to do the work.. I just wish you could find reliable mechanics for these things.. Even when Harley serviced them it was always hit/miss
2016 onwards sporty engine casings are they heavy duty to take major motor up grades like the after market heavy duty evo engine casings ? Keep up the good work Yep ! Bikes are my glue!
You can put a 1275 on that with some Hammer cams and it will really wake it up! Those bikes power output is about what a late model EFI Sportster puts down. You would be up about 80 to 90 horse depending on what compression and exhaust you choose to run.
Is it possible to put the late model xb crank with the 1 1/2 in crank pin into a 98 S1 motor,or could I modify my stock crank to take a larger crank pin ?.
I had heard that Eric Buell wanted the Vrod motor for his RX1100. Harley refused because they wanted to allocate them to Vrod production. His decision to use the Rotax motor pretty much doomed his relationship wth H-D. Is there any truth to this?
I can't attest to the validity of that but it makes sense. The Vrod motor was originally Harley's road racing engine and then it was tweaked and re-engineered for the street. Buell had one year of racing with the XBRR before he went to Rotax, that all lines up with the time Harley offed the Buell line. I can only imagine what Buell could of done with that motor in his chassis. Harley shutting down Buell is on the list of the biggest corporate blunders ever.
You are correct. Eric wanted the VRod motor but HD wanted to put the engine in the bloated VRod frame to compete in Cruiser drag racing. Later HD hated they were buying Rotax engines for Buell bikes. Dealers did not want to work on them.
@@exexpat11 IMHO you are correct about the Vrod being a detuned bloated monstrosity. But l guess that is what you get when you put some one who went to art school instead of engineering school to head up the design department simply because his last name was Davidson. 😏 BTW l've heard the performance of the factory Vrod dragster has been rather lackluster.
@@geraldscott4302 Nostalgia certainly can be a consideration. I have been riding H-D and other bikes for upwards of fifty years. To me the whole nostalgia thing started wearing thin about twenty years ago. I'm so happy that H-D is finally going with more up to date technology. I'm seriously looking at the new Sportster S.. However l have learned better than to buy fist year production.🙂
One thing you forgot to mention was the lighter weight of the Buell. Power to weight was definitely better on the Buell. I still have 5 Buell's, 09 xb12xt, 04xb12s,00 Lighting x1, 00 Cyclone, 99s3t, and a ebr sx. They are good bikes that can be bought now very reasonable.
The sportster that intrigues me the most is the XR 1000.. It was a serious looking machine. I have read that it also performed very well. I also liked the XR twelve hundred . from what I understand it was purely cosmetic . what do you know about these two models ?
The XR1200 is not cosmetic, it has inverted Showa forks and taller adjustable shocks, dual disc's rotors with dual 4 piston Nissin calipers, dual disc master cylinder and a better rear master cylinder. It has a down draft throttle body/fuel injection like the buells, larger cams, a different cam chest with an oil cooler, higher compression and higher flowing exhaust, and the same crankshaft used in the 2008+ Buell XB. It also had a higher redline and different gearing than the XL1200 to name a few things. I hope this answers your question!
@@hhplymouth9473 the XR1200X had a few more options too, mostly suspension related I believe. The XR1200 made roughly 90hp compared to the 60hp the XL made. I have a beefed up XL making 100+hp but I dream of buying an XR1200 and a Buell XB12SCG in the next year or two!
@@hhplymouth9473 I was looking at prices south of the border a while back and they seemed a bit high! Here in Canada there are a few of them for sale on Kijiji for anywhere from $6000-10000 Canadian, so like $4000-8000 USD but I expect those prices to rise a lot in the near future. I am trying to find a good one relatively close to me and when I do I 100% will buy it and never sell it!
The XR's had the .551 cams, down draft fuel injection, 10.0:1 compression, basically the XB heads which were the same heads from the XL 07 on. Timing was a bit hotter, it revved higher than the XL Sportster. I believe they also had a bit lighter crank similar to the XB at the time. The also had the 2 into 1 to 2 exhaust, they had a lot more freedom with the style of the bike to use down draft injection and a large air box.
I have a 97 Buell S1 lighting engine on a rigged bobber frame, 1st is there a way I can find out if that's what engine i have, thsts what the title says buy I wanna make sure, 2nd I'm having issues with power it idles like a mean cat but when I give it the throttle she dies, I have tried using carburetor cleaner in it, but I'm nervous out taking the carb apart, and if I wanted to charge the carb, where can I find one that will fit along with a better air cleaner than I have
You could look up the Vin on the engine, that would tell you exactly what it is or maybe even a Harley dealer could still run the Vin. Sounds like you're going to have to get a full rebuild on the carb, that's where I would start and check for air leaks as well on the seal to the cylinders.
Buell thunderstorm head was all the rage. Could get new set from the dealership. Then they were gone like a fart in a hurricane. My first Harley build I found a used set on eBay. Better than winning the lottery. Ported 883 heads might have worked better. Buells had 6800 rpm red line. The big vavles work have worked there. And the muffler trick.
Thunderstorm heads were the ultimate Sportster upgrade! Now you can the heads off a 2007 or newer model which are even better. You can even put the FI heads on a carb bike, Hammer makes a wider manifold to adapt a carb to them.
You are the man thank you for sharing the knowledge! Any interest in building me a turboed xb9? After reading the comments on how they were originally designed for one it seems like a dream bike
XR1200 is everything a Buell XB or 1125 never was. Fast...comfortable...aesthetically pleasing...reliable...proven technology....conventionally mounted exhaust....well-sorted prior to production. And to answer your question....H-D did in fact install an Buell XB based 1203cc motor into one of their models. It's called the XR1200.
That was such a neat bike, but they used the standard sportster cases and it was heavier. It's a shame it didn't catch on in the US, it was very popular in Europe though.
@@GixxerFoo XR's are wonderful bikes and out of the 500 or so bikes that i've owned in my 55 years of riding...arguably the most pleasant and enjoyable bike for those evening short hops and day trippin'. Odd thing was that here in the US...people for decades were asking for a street version of the XR750 GN flat tracker. So when H-D finally builds what they think the people want, it sells like wildfire in Europe it's first year of production in 2008, where they all were shipped to. US result for 2009-2012 models? Dealers couldn't give them away. Go figure
Right? They even had the XR1200 series in road racing. That was pretty cool to watch. Like with anything Harley they quit making it and it becomes popular.
Sportsters and Buells...excellent bikes ! In your story you've talked about XL's and Buells, but how about the love baby between The Sportster XL 1200 and a Buell XB12: The Sportster XR1200 ! When I got one, mine had 90HP and 100 Newtonmeter Torque standard... and after a 2 in 1 exhaust swap by Twin-motorcycles in Ysselstein in The Netherlands, and of course with the mandatory switch of Mapping which comes with the exhaust to be installed, my XR1200 had 105HP and 120Newtonmeter torque and gaining power was not even the set target. I wanted to get rid of the power dip my XR1200 (every XR1200) comes with standard. Well the power dip was gone and I had a little power gain as well. Man this XR1200 would rip... and cornering was like a true sportbike: knee down and full trottle. Man I misbehaved myself with this XR1200... And then of course...there is the XR1000.... How about these bikes ? Where do they fit in your story?
The XR1000 actually is what started Buell, when the 1000 Buell didn't sell Buell got the left over engines. That's how he got started basically, not he XR1200 that was all Harley. Although the XR1200 actually had quite a bit of Buell tech, down draft injection and hotter cams. Harley had more freedom with the style of the bike and the two into two factory system. Shame that XR1200 didn't take off in the States, it was one of the best Sportsters ever built.
@@GixxerFoo I really can not agree with you more ! In my modest opinion the XR1200 is the bike which carries the name SPORTSTER as justly as it gets. After all it really is a sportbike, a naked sport bike as we would call it here in Europe, since the bike comes without any fairing...
Sorry the Sportster engine was FAR INFERIOR, dealt with both and yes parts would interchange for the most part, but and a big BUT. Take a Sportster down and take a Buell down and you can easily see that the Buell engine was much stronger built. Harley would have done well to simply dump their engine and go 100% Buell engine from the get go. Simply Eric fixed the major FLAWS in Piss Poor Design from the HD engineering department.
@@thomasheer825 No one here was going to question the quality of Buell motorcycles… this subject is undisputed. Eric Buell's skills to make something out of nothing and his quest for perfection will not be a question for anyone. The approach of Gixxerfoo was actually to address the familial role between the different engines and their developments that they have endured. I am therefore convinced that the final Buell versions of the Harley Davidson Sportster engines have been improved on more than 1 point. It is in line with expectations that the Harley Davidson XR1200 engine is built on the basis of the Buell engines available at the time, much more than that an XR1200 engine descends from the standard Sportster XL1200. It worked out very well in terms of timing: Harley Davidson had disbanded Buell not long before the development of the XR1200, so all of Buell's technology was available to Harley Davidson and so not long after Buell was discontinued, the Harley Davidson XR1200 appeared on the scene... all very coincidental, or not! Since Buell Motorcycles had been doing business (separate from Harley Davidson) for several years with the Austrian company Rotax for their really fast modern water cooled engines that were built into Buell's motorcycles later on, Harley Davidson was introduced to the Rotax engine factory at the time. This relationship has proven to be valuable because the latest generation Sportster S engines and the Sportster Pan Am engines both come from Austria (Europe) from Rotax engine block company. And so the circle is complete again
Enjoy the bike and forget about the torque and HP #. Use how it feels riding it to figure out how you feel about the power and speed. You'll enjoy it way more than you will hearing somebody with a turbo charged Hayabusa break down those numbers.
Those are pretty trick 100 inch motors, I don't think they sell it anymore. It was taller than a stock Sportster motor but it will fit in a rigid mount frame. Rusty Butcher has a Sportster with one of the S&S's in it.
I just love my tube framed Buell’s. They are and were ahead of their time. I wish Harley still had them in their portfolio as well. At my local dealership, they have a Buell mechanic in the shop, but they will not take a Buell in for any kind of service. Frustrating. Love Buell!
did you see that they are making Buells again? not Harley but a group of people i think on a per order basis. i seen a vid on it a while back . they was at a bike show , Daytona i think, they had a booth setup. i always liked the innovation of Buells myself. good vid
Thank you! They are making Buells again, he got some investors backing him and they are building them in limited numbers. Hopefully it takes off and he can start mass producing again.
@@GixxerFoo Eric is not involved with Buell any more. He moved on a long time ago to electric cycles. He has publicly announced this in the hope of preventing the false information that is prevalent in this comment section. He even says it himself specifically. The new Buell is the old Buell purchased from the liquidators. Plenty of information out there about it.
Not Buell, Buells. The latest iteration of the company has zero Eric Buell involvement. He was not invited to the party after the last investment group sod him out. EBR is not Eric Buell's and has not been since 2014ish. Same company bought the assets from HD relaunched without him. Don't want to omit that their improvements to the 2014 ebr were of his his yet to be executed changes from that 2014 end of Buell. So many coat tailed this guy, I hope he makes E motorcycle so great they try again to get him in their design and engineering and he just says NO! Maybe his newest adventures put and end to the Livewire.
With Erik Buell Harley Davidson could have had some very competitive sport bikes. Instead, they put all there eggs in the nostalgia basket... and the rest, as they say, is history.
Still infusing his engineering ideas into the Milwaukee 8 platform. They should have turned over all engineering, research and development to him. That would cut that budget by 80% due to his efficient and hire right people instead of labeled people for the job then tell these people what you need form them and et them do it. Harley is ran by ego and megalomania.
I have a recipe in mind for a Sportie. Hammer Performance, clip-ons, solo seat, mids., 2 into 1, upgraded shocks, & larger rear sprocket. Or how about something ludicrous? Trask Performance Turbo, hardtailed, 10" Mini Apes on 6 up/4back risers, springer forks, with a springer seat. Add a split Softail tank.😁 Can ya tell I like to build? May not be able to Ride the beast across country but around town it would be a hoot. 🤔 Second thought, swap engine set-up.
Do you have any experience with a Buell or a hot rod Sportster?
I have a Thunderbolt S3T, i love it! 2002 so the last year they had the hopped up Evo engine.
01 blast and 01 Cyclone owner right here
Hopefully picking up a 01 X1 Lightning in a few days
I was a H-D Master Tech and did all the service schools for Buell in Milwaukee. I can say that H-D used the Buell as a test bed for many engineering and emissions requirements that were coming down the pipeline. Erik Buell was a great asset to them. It was sad to see him go.
I have a 2003 Buell XB9S. Great bike with about 92HP, also, it's a much much lighter bike. Dry weight of a sportster is around 553lbs, dry weight of an XB9S is around 385lbs. Instant power to weight ratio increase. The handling too is exceptional.
Both, I've built several Sportsters for performance (myself, I own my own shop) including my current 03R that exceeds 65 MPH in first gear, and anyone who thinks that's a lie come on by Uniontown Pa and I'll show you otherwise, and bring money, you won't be the first person who lost money to me thinking it's impossible for a stock stroke/bore 1200 to hit 65 MPH in first gear.
I've also owned an XB9 Buell that on the winding mountain roads where I live will absolutely tear up my CBR929RR Honda Erion Racing Edition, unless that Honda gets some long straightaways to stretch it's legs out it doesn't stand a chance against the XB9, that Buell is the single most maneuverable motorcycle I've ever ridden in my life.
First off concerning Buell's and the Harley engines they run the first real production street machine that Buell produced had the mighty XR1000 engine on it, these were leftover engines from after Harley canceled production of the XR1000 Sportster.
After that Buell started using stock crate 1200 Evo engines for a time until he designed the Thunderstorm heads and pistons for the 1200 engines going on his bikes, these were basically an attempt to copy the Branch #4 head*, but of course Harley manufactured them in a way he didn't want them made, at the end of the day they didn't really work any better than the stock 1200 heads except the ports flowed a little better, where Harley screwed them up was to try casting the angled squish band into the heads, this won't work, they must be machined in to get the proper effect, the heads actually had a step at the outer edge of it's squish band, unfortunately this sloppy fit not only cancelled the effect of the squish band but it also turned it into a giant detonation trap that required the timing to be pulled back reducing potential power.
The series of heads manufactured like that also had two different squish band angles, 10° and 15°, unfortunately Weisco only offered their pistons for both series of heads for the 10° heads further complicating matters and making potential power losses even worse.
Next came the XB series engine, this is where the squish problem got straightened out by running a flat squish with the area on the head being machined in the style of a TC bathtub type chamber, which is a Branch #3 head*, the cases were redesigned to be for a dedicated use on Buells and the rotation of the cams were reversed (don't worry if you have an XB engine though, aftermarket cams will still work because the cam lobe profile is identical on both sides, however the cam driven by the pinion must have the gear pressed off and reinstalled so it's timing mark is oriented in the proper location but doing that is no big deal), the most advanced form of this engine being for the XB RR engines, they eliminated the traditional Sportster engine design oil pump and moved the gerator style pump gears directly onto the end of the pinion shaft eliminating the troublesome oil pump drive gear on the pinion shaft (if you have a Sportster built for performance or the regular XBR engine then get an aftermarket bronze drive gear that goes on the pinion shaft, problem solved).
The XB9 engine is basically the same as an XB12 engine except that the stroke was shortened by ½" to make for a higher revving engine, Eric Buell had originally intended for the XB9 to be a turbo charged engine that would have produced around 120 HP, with the XB being as light and maneuverable as it is if the XB9 had been introduced in '03 with it's intended turbo and low cost (obviously it would have cost a little more with the turbo but still would have cost much less than any foreign motorcycle with less performance), but once again Harley had to step in and they screwed it up, Buell had cut a deal with the turbo manufacturer Aerodyne to produce their variable vane turbos for the XB9 and he had a working prototype bike and had everything ready to go, even the ECU's were already produced, then the IDIOT'S at Harley had to step in and and demand that they design the turbo system inhouse, they screwed it up so bad that when it came time to produce the bike the turbo had to be dropped and the XB9 wound up being manufactured with a normally aspirated engine, even though it was normally aspirated it's still a machine that will tear up any other motorcycle on a winding road, had Harley not stuck their noses in it the turbo XB9 would have been a motorcycle that'd be legendary, however if you have an XB9 putting a turbo on one is a fairly simple endeavor since the ECU's were already made to drive a turbo system they will still work when a turbo is bolted on, the XB12 is a different story since ECU work is required.
After the XB series of bikes came the Rotax powered Buell's which was basically an XB with Buell's engine design manufactured by Rotax, an interesting part of the XB story is the the V-rod engine was originally supposed to be the powerplant for the XB, but when Porsche got done with it Buell didn't want it saying it was too big and heavy for his needs, so after paying Porsche all that money to develop it Harley was stuck with it and in an attempt to recover the money they designed that half assed chassis it wound up in.
* Branch Flowmetrics is a company that was started by Jerry Branch an ex service manager at Memphis HD, he moved to Signal Hill California and started Branch Flowmetrics, they worked directly with the University of California Los Angeles and wrote engineering books concerning air flow through engines that are used in their engineering classes, students studying engineering are taken on tours through Branchs' facilities, Jerry Branch did research work for Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki, Kawasaki, NASA, Ford, General Motors, Chrysler and too many other companies to list, once he did research for Sears and Roebuck to redesign the ductwork in one of their vacuum cleaners, when they assembled their vaccum cleaner with his redesigned ductwork and turned it on it pulled down to the carpeting so hard it couldn't be moved, as a result they installed a less powerful motor in it and used that as a selling feature.
It was Kawasaki that funded a research program by Branch in the 70's to develop a better combustion chamber for their racing team, it was this research that led to the development of angled squish bands and the different combustion chambers known as Branch #1, #2, #3 and #4 heads, when Harley developed the Evo engine from the ashes of the canceled Nova Project of the late 70's (which was contracted to Porsche) they fly Jerry Branch to Milwaukee every weekend to work on finalizing the head design for the Evo engine, he designed the ports and Harley selected the Branch #2 head combustion chamber for it which is the D shape that they use, he wanted them to go with the #4 head which that had the 30° squish band but Harley didn't want the expense of having to machine the angled squish band into the head, Harley selected the #3 Branch head "bathtub" style chamber for the TC engine.
Jerry Branch finalized the ports and combustion chambers for every Harley engine, including the V-rod, since and including the Evo engine, even before the Evo he'd tried to tell Harley that the ports in their engines were too big and that velocity suffered as a result, they finally started to listen to him starting with the Evo, most likely this is because he did the heads for every XR750 factory racing engine and every single set of XR1000 engines made by Harley, they shipped every head for the XR1000's to his shop in California to be worked over by him.
The only services ever offered to the public by Branch Flowmetrics are the performance modifications of Harley Davidson heads, despite having done heads and research for NASCAR and Indy racing teams along with many others the only service available to the public remains Harley Davidson head modifications, the research work he did for so many countless racing teams and others was just for the sake of collecting the data that resulted from them funding the research, he was THE master of flowing air/fuel mixtures through a port and combustion chamber and was an ace that us Harley riders have always had in our pocket, before he passed away several years back Jerry Branch had forgotten more about airflow than any one else will ever know, there's not a single engine manufacturer in the world that hasn't benefited from the exhaustive research that he did over the years, and it all started out with him being the service manager at Memphis HD pumping up engines for customers there including Elvis Presley, before he became famous and was just a poor high school kid with a constantly broken 2 stroke Harley Branch would fix Elvis' bike for him for free and Elvis never forgot that, after he became a famous star he demanded that every new Harley he bought for himself or the members of his Memphis Mafia were to be delivered to Graceland by Branch himself and that he give them riding lessons at his estate, legend has it that he paid him so well to do it that that's where Branch got the money to move to California and start his business, so the next time some poor high school kid needs help with his motorcycle help him out, because you never know.
Does anyone else feel like that when Erik passes we will be losing an icon that most of the motorcycle world doesn't even know about. What a dude. Much respect.
Absolutely, his bikes for sure could compete on the world stage if he just got the backing and the support to develop them. I am very happy he's back in business even if it's only in exclusive limited numbers, hopefully this is just a starting point.
Hes built some of the best handling unique bikes ever made. The EBR1190 was an extremely underrated bike watching what it did in AMA superbike while limited by the ama rules and a small team in Wisconsin on a hair thin budget.
Have you ever met him ? Like most Motorcycle People , one of the nicest guys you could ever meet , has a kickass Rock Band too !
I think that when Harley-Davidson separated from the Buell program they made one of the most detrimental mistakes they could have ever made. Having your name attached to a partnership that makes the only American made Supersport Cafe styled bike is a winner of a deal. Eric Buell gave younger more aggressive riders one of the best canyon carving platforms ever built and used an engine that gave them such torque that transitioning chicanes was as simple as letting off and grabbing a wristfull of throttle.
I have ridden just about ever brand of sport bike produced from 1986 to present day and nothing that I have ridden in an off the showroom floor format has ever handled in the twisties the way an XB 9R or XB 12R has. Those bikes were like riding on a 2 wheeled V-Twin monorail. I cannot count the number of times I scraped the pegs on the ground when my knee was touching tarmac in a turn because that bike went deeper than any other bike on the market and could leave a turn with the bike 45 degrees two different ways the front wheel reaching for the heavens while riding the outside of the rear tire.
When Eric Buell leaves this realm for the next there will be no American made GP styled machines produced and the twisties of America will once again require a European or Asian bike to enjoy high speed knee dragging rips. He will forever live in infamy as the lone American Supersport motorcycle visionary.
He up there with the Britten guy.
It’s hard to choose the dumbest move Harley made…..I mean, there’s been so many of them. Getting rid of Buells is definitely up there though.
They had a terrible CEO that knew nothing about motorcycles what so ever when he killed Buell off. He called them kid's toys that no one wants, he couldn't of been farther off the mark. That market was really gaining strength when he killed Buell.
They were hurting financially while Buell was turning a profit at the time they sold them out. But I think the Rotax powered Buell 1125R sportbike championship win was too much humiliation for HD to not screw Buell over. Egos were decimated on that win.
😂 but their new sportster release video is stunning, brave, non binary and rainbow flavored 😂
03 Buell owner since new and is still pissed it happened to the greatest thing that Harley had going. The bikes were phenomenal. Harley bought Ducati with no money coming in then very quickly had to liquidate everything.
Now harley wishes it could sell buell-like bikes. They are clueless and their customers are dying off.
I have an 06 Lightning XB12SS Long parked in my garage. Erick Buell certainly created an amazing motorcycle. This is a bike, I plan on owning for as long as I can.
Just sold my S1 not too long ago. That’s the one I’ll be looking for next.
I have an 03 XB9s in my garage. The bikes are a real rarity here in Germany and the fan community is sworn in. I will take the bike to my grave!
The xb12ss is the best model made. The long is the most comfortable for some one from 5-10+ i wish i never sold mine. I had a red xb12ss with 9k miles and sold it for 3500 in 2019 😓
What color is yours?
Mine will be sepulture whith me. Xb12
Those tube frame Buells were (still are) cult bikes in Europe and the UK.
Wonderful motorcycles where roads are short and not in a straight line for a hundred miles.
'Mercans never really got it, bar a few.
The down draft setup did make it into a sportster. The XR1200. This also was the only sportster that had the updated 2008+ Buell crankshaft that was 3 lbs lighter than the stock sporty crank.
I own a 2010 XR1200. I love it. It is a great South Florida bike. Owning a Supersport is silly due to our flat roads at sea level and they are north to south and east to west. It is not a easy bike to ride. I have been riding for over 40++ years. Sportbikes and sopermotos. In my opinion it is not a good streetbike. It is a 5 speed and with a 70mph speed limit on freeways everybody does well over 80. The XR is revving at 5000 RPM. Other Harleys are at around 2500 according to my friends and it depends on the model. That is why most XRs went to the track.
@@KevXRDuke I own an XR1200X and one of the mod’s that I did was the ‘Scotty Mod’ or change to a higher gearing. Now I’m not searching for an extra gear down the highway. It’s a fun bike. :)
@@raybanbunny ...I know exactly what you mean. Every bike that I have owned since the early 1980s had 6 gears. Even the Kawi 250 supermoto I had before the XR had 6 gears. Unlike the DRZ. Here in Florida I mostly ride around town and take short trips around Lake Okeechobee to open it up. I go out where there are no cars, people, cops or houses. I like the way it is geared. If I did go far distances I would definitely change the gearing. I have a friend who races one and obviously he converted to chain and changed the gearing to get more top end. I think he runs around 145. I did bump up my redline with my Power Commander to 7300 RPM. So it faster. 125 is easy. 130 in a full tuck on a straight road. It depends if I get on it. A 58 I still like to ride fast but I haven't gotten a ticket in well over 20 years. Lots and lots of warnings but I am trying to keep it that way. I will never sell my bike and it will go to my 12 year old son. He races supermoto and BMX.
Road raced a Buell for years. Love them. Still ride my 08 Lightning every week.
The race bike was making over 100hp at the tire with pretty minimal work.
It's really pretty basic stuff to get 100 horse out of the motors, they are a lot of fun to ride!
As a person who loves Everything Evo Sportster I found this very informative
Thank you, a lot of people still think it was literally a XL motor in a sporty frame.
Harley Davidson made a huge strategic mistake in severing their relationship with motorcycle engineer Erik Buell - a cost-cutting measure to preserve cash, maintain their dividend payout and make it appear to shareholders that all was well. Nothing could have been further from the truth.
The motorcycle market today is flourishing, and Harley just announced their 22nd quarter of falling sales. Why? Quite simply, they failed to design the motorcycles back then, that people want to buy today. Erik Buell could have been tasked to design products for the now lucrative racing, sport-touring, and adventure segment of the marketplace. He had the skills and credibility to make HD a player in these markets. Instead, he was dropped and cut loose. A glaring example of zero vision and short-term thinking.
There will be no pulling Harley-Davidson out of its nose-dive this time. I predict that in 18-24 months HD (HOG) will delist, be taken private, and emerge a much smaller company no longer beholden to shareholders and the quarterly reporting requirements of publically traded companies. I see no other path for their survival.
Well said!
Buell was way ahead of his time and he was a visionary that saw what the MoCo could be in 20 years. Now the MoCo is trying to pull it together and start doing what should of been done 20 years ago. As soon as I saw the first Pan America design my mind went right back to the Buell Ulysses.
Agree 100%, Harley will go private for the reasons you stated. They drug their feet on the new Sportster water cooled engine, it looks like a winner but it is to little to late to remain a major player. They also overpriced it above the competition, and the market it is selling to Brand Name is not the King as in the big twin cruisers. It is destined to, yep survive but being a basically a cottage brand name selling a handful of product annually.
Buell and the V-rod are two opportunities that HD just blew completley. However the turn around plan you offer isnt novel and has been the standard take for a decade. We'll see if it ever actually happens.
@@willstikken5619 perhaps hostile take over and scrap it or sell it.sad but HD has earned this. Declare bankruptcy.to get the investers out. Maybe reorganize. Perhaps a fire sale. Or hostile take over. As long as I can get parts I couldn't care less. Tons of aftermarket. ID love to see fresh oversight over the brand.
Maybe the government would bail them out. Need another Iaccoca to save em.
Omg buell the american sportbike
what outstanding bikes they were,and still are!
After 20 + years wrenching and owning lots of different bikes,I purchased a 02 thunderbolt, last year of the thunderbolt and tube frame buells.
It was just so good!
101 bhp 90 ft lb of glorious torque out of the box, fully adj showa usd forks and showa underslung shock,6 piston front brake,fuel injection and rubber mounted motor, years before available on a hd!
It was a masterpiece of engineering and had fantastic styling!
The later bikes were even more awesome, with fuel in frame,liquid cooled motors and in excess of 140 bhp in a super lightweight package
Erik buell was a motorcycle enginering mastermind!
God I have to get another buell
They were just way ahead of their time, right now I'd imagine Harley would love to have some of what Buell was doing for them.
I worked at a dealership and we had a multi-dealer ride of around 350 miles. It was huge fun. Out of the sea of Harley's my Buell M2 Cycle stood out. A couple of upper management types were walking by and I was standing within ear shot but not by my bike. Once says to the other "hey, look, a Buell!" To which the other replied "i sure wish we had that brand back." My Buell was a very comfortable bike on that trip.
I used to have an 04 XB12r and it will always be my favorite motorcycle. The frame design of those bikes truly made them one of the best handling sports bikes. And the low end torque of that Thunderbolt engine made for a truly one of a kind riding experience. I'll always regret selling mine but I'll own another again no doubt.
Ever rode an 1125R/CR? For most part same bike except fairing and motor. Well that motor cost Buell the whole deal in my opinion. Constantly improving everything about the sporty motor and then throwing not HD motor at it that made HD motor into a statue?Pft! sadly Eric has resolved to get out of that world and was doing amazing things in the Electric MC/bike feild. Maybe he does so great the Livewire gets canceled.
@Scott Bridges I never have sadly. Always wanted a CR or one of the newer 1190s. I did end buying an 06 XB12Ss since I posted this comment. However I don't enjoy the Lightning like I did the Firebolt. Naked bikes just aren't for me I guess.
Same 😁
Personally the buells were my favorite HD. Right there with the vrod.
I loved the power they made down low and having that motor in a frame that handled was the icing on the cake.
I remember when the V-rod was new, there was a "traveling test ride fleet" that came to the HD dealership in Belton, TX.
I rode the original version of the V-rod-loved the powertrain, but hated the rider position and general layout.
Then rode the Buell 1200 Lightening. That was a thoroughly wonderful ride on some TX twisty back roads. I loved everything about that bike.
Great video, I don't understand why you don't have more likes ! I have a 2010 XB12x and it's easily the best handling motorcycle I've ever ridden. My Ulysses is also the motorcycle that I've modified the absolute least in order to make it comfortable and what I would consider, rideable. It didn't need to be "uncorked" or suspension changed, saddle changed, etc, etc, etc. My only issue with the bike as delivered was the stock flycatcher and windscreen was a whiplash inducing travesty but that got replaced immediately with a Madstad setup that has been superb. I did buy a set of Twisted Throttle hard bags and frame which have been awesome and a remapped ECU that quite frankly was a waste of money. The bike already ran great but I had to see for myself...
The stock bike has more than enough power to get one into trouble, obviously not the quickest or most powerful by a long shot but I consider the power delivery to be perfect for the way I ride the bike here in the San Juan mountains of southwest Colorado. There are more gravel forest service roads than I'll probably ever have the time to get to and the bike is very comfortable at speed on the highways and is an absolute blast here in the mountains ! I never plan on selling it which is something I can't say about all the other bikes I've ever owned !
The Ulysses was ahead of it's time, Harley had a ADV bike just before that market took off and they canned it. The XB bikes were really onto something, you had a hot rod power to the ground Harley motor in a chassis that really handled. You could run with anything in the twisties, those motors were already at peak power turn to turn. A 4 cylinder sport bike you were shutting down just as the power came on.
Hi, is the 12X easier to handle than a BMW 1200/1250GS? I rode those in Europe many times on moto tours up in the Alps, and was marginal for me to handle at low speeds due mostly to weight/seat height and general layout. Frankly I think the GS is way overrated. I would love to get me an XB12x. I'm 5'7", 31" inseam. All my bikes were always Ducati's, starting back 35 years ago, but at this stage, I'm done with sport bikes. Looking for something unique (like Ducati was 30 years ago) and admire what Erik Buell have done to the sport.
@@jdesmo1 I think the Uly is probably easier to handle as long as it's one of the later one's or if an earlier model, has the upgraded steering head with the reduced radius fork locks. The Uly is quite a bit lighter and somewhat smaller than a GS and though tall, they're a little shorter than a GS. You may be better off with an XT for it's shorter seat height than the X bikes and I think the XT's all came equipped with the improved steering heads.
Also, I think it may have been the '08 Uly's that experienced some crankshaft issues but not sure... Badweatherbikers.com would be a great resource for research and keep an eye on the classifieds section. These bikes have gotten to be very inexpensive ! Good luck with whatever you decide to do !
@@aabikrman agree with you totally. I think the crank issue was on the '07. Also in '08 they made improvements to the oiling system from knowledge gained through racing. I'd love to ride with you in that area of Colorado..what a great experience. I also have a 2010 12X. The thing about the 2008+ was most little bugs were worked, and the 2010 has the 3 bearing rear wheels. Still see the old Buell staff quite often as I live a couple of miles from East Troy.
@@jdesmo1 hello mate, i can tell you something about it. I often drive the 1200gs professionally and have an xb12x privately.
the gs is much easier to drive than the buell. the chassis tuning is like on rails and very safe with bmw. this is a clear difference in contrast to the buell.
you first have to get used to the buell, but after that it's no longer an issue and it can be beaten through the curves just like the safe GS1200.
in my opinion, the xb12 engine is significantly livelier, more powerful and has more torque than the bmw engine from comparable years. So if you want a bike with character and a unique engine, the buell is for you. When buying, just pay attention to the year of construction, as some years of construction had problems with the oil pump sprocket. regards
great video! after owning a xb9 and xb12r, i did not know about the brioze oil pump gear. interesting. thank you!
Thanks for watching! Yeah they found out that steel one liked to blow up, it's a must have swap on the XL if you're building one of those motors up.
I've owned a couple of hot rod Sportsters in my younger years. I looked at Buells once, back around 2000, but decided that they were too short for me and not real comfortable. I was mid 40's at the time so maybe I was just too old for a sport bike by then. I always liked them though - impressive technology. I have loved all of my Sportsters. Nothing like a Harley that you can throw around like a dirt bike!
Buells were not the most comfortable bikes, they had a hellacious riding position. The Ulysses adventure bike was probably their most comfortable bike, it was way ahead of its time though. The ADV market has exploded today, that bike was in on the ground floor back in its day when Harley axed it.
Eric Buell actually upgraded the Sportster engine quite a bit. Eric wasn't satisfied with the rather frail Sportster engine. You seem to forget to mention that the Cases, crankshaft, cylinders and heads along with the clutch and even the transmission gears were much more robust and not just slightly improved upgrades. It was more akin to comparing a 2 bolt main, cast crank, small port Chevy Small Block to a Z28 302 engine. Yep they are in the same family but that is about it. If you notice the Buell Blast was based off of the Buell V-twin and they were practically bullet proof, yep they strangled them down with a small carb and a intake track that would best be described as a air tilt a whirl for the air/fuel mixture and a muffler that looked like a surfboard and weighed a ton. Wife has a Blast and with a few minor modifications it is rather impressive.
Buell did a lot for the Sportster motor, I kinda feel like Harley piggy backed off his advancements and put them into production on the Sportster without giving Buell the credit he deserved.
@@GixxerFoo have been involved in motorcycles for the past 50 years and by far the upgrades Eric did to the crappy, at best, Sportster engine was epic. Basically he rebuilt the engine so it would not self destruct in a short period of time when ran hard.
Don Tilley did most of the upgrades on the motor for Eric and very few people know that
@@bigsea1306didn't know who the author of the changes was, but he did a good job in upgrading the frailty of the Sportster engine significantly. Listen to HD guys and they downplay the massive improvements to the Sportster engine, All Praise Harley, types that said it was simply a slight production change to make it simply different than a Sportster engine. But for some strange reason these were the same guys that cross decked Buell parts to personal Sportsters if the parts were available. Most Buells are being ran like hell and are still running, now how many Sportsters run hard from the same era have performed show and tell of their internals on the highway?
New buell addict here. Just acquired a 99' X1 and 02' S3 this year. Thanks for the video, very informative!
Buell was a true engineer. There is a XB that has been sitting in my local HD dealership with a 25k hanging price tag. Thanks for your effort on this video it was quite informative
Buell is an amazing engineer, he always thought out of the box. Lol the guy is even a musician with his own band. If I had money to burn I would pay 25K for a new Buell XB today, as long as they threw in a new set of tires cause I'd still be a cheapskate with 25K to burn lol.
Erik Buell created a remarkable bike considering what he had to work with. Unfortunately it was just not my type of bike. I wouldn't mind having a Buell Ulysses, but you can't get parts for them anymore. Still, ALL Buells with the Sportster based engine were light years ahead of the EBR 1190RX, which he designed and built under the EBR name. While I am not a sport bike guy (I got my first cruiser at age 18, and am still riding them, with a couple of Goldwings thrown in) At least they had some soul and character. The 1190RX was just like it's Japanese counterparts, devoid of anything but spec sheet performance. IF I wanted to do sport riding, I'd get a single cylinder supermoto.
$25,000 asking price for a Buell? GTFO.
@@frankcastle5294 It's been sitting there for years. Carolina Coast Harley Wilmington NC.
@@carlbruhn1772 I believe you and I've been past that dealership. On the old north/south US 17. They're insane. I own a brand-new-in-crate XB12 lightning never even dealer prepped and it's not worth half that much.
I’ve owned 2 Buell motorcycles an S3 and an X1 also worked at a H-D dealership when the XB models all of then are amazing bikes so much fun to ride and surprised many a sport bike guy in the twisties I wish I still had my S3 I had that motor right but life happens
Don’t forget the brakes on the XB models front brakes were great
The XB's brakes are insane! I had a GSX-R 1000 back in 2005 when I was introduced to a XB, the guy who owned it could fly in the twisties with us. I swapped bikes with him one day and I swear that thing handled better than my Gixxer.
We ran Buells for many years, XB12Scg and XB12X. Very well thought out designs from the braking to the frame fuel tank to the engine oil tank in the swing arm low C of G with the exhaust slung very low. Nimble and light with decent HP and great torque. We found they were very reliable and provided good service . Just can’t get parts in Canada so we changed them out to Ducati’s .
There's a pretty strong aftermarket now on those bikes, but some of bike specific parts are hard to come by these days.
I just rebuilt my engine (I mean a shop did, not me) and had some other goodies installed after I almost died last year. The bike rides 100% now and I am loving it this summer. 2009 XB12Ss. Bought a 'shitty' example and took 2 years of sourcing parts here and there and a bunch of money. I'm on the east coast (PEI). Best mod on the bike is the FatBob LED horizontal headlight unit. Night driving is now a breeze.
St. Paul HD has just about everything u need.
Bought a new xb9r firebolt in 03 and still love It. Has 75000 miles and still hauls ass,revs like no v45 should, corners like it's on rails. Amazingly reliable, Always gets attention,it is a work of art. The sportster benefits from the Buell tec that was developed for this bike. Harley wanted to keep displacement traditional 883 and 1200 so no screaming 984cc for them. They also have the oil filter up front to keep the look of the old generator location ,again for tradition. Things reversed, it became a Buell motor on a sportster. Originally was a sportster motor on a Buell. Still upsetting Buell was killed off. Just a killer machine. Even thinking about a parts bike to keep it alive if anything terrible happens. I'll keep it till I'm dead!
They are some awesome bikes, they should of kept on developing them and they wouldn't be struggling to get new riders today!
I've had an X1 for 20 years and it's always a blast to ride especially on the twisties. Strangely the equivalent year Sportster would bring a higher price resale than the Buell despite the latter being a much better bike all round. Niche market i guess
That blows my mind how a regular Sportster would cost more, I imagine if he Buell was sold under the bar and shield name it would command more money.
I look for the Buell Lightning (both the old and new) everyone in a while. Here in Kansas they must be well loved or very scarce. Rarely see one on the road. (last sighting was over a year ago).
"A Hot-Rod Sportster"...Well, yes...I own a 1972 Sporty with a SPUTHE top end, 80 cubic inches with dual carbs, XR type cams, intakes and exhaust...it's sort of a BIG XR 750 and only 390 pounds....Built in 1980, just like the August Cover of Cycle World....here, 41 years later, still scary fast...!!
I like that knucklehead poster behind you...I've got a '46 with S&S 93" sidewinder...keeps up with the new Big Twins.....
That's some serious RAW power right there, these newer bikes are a lot smoother. The new ones don't feel like they want to tear you off the back like the older bikes did.
Got to call a Bravo Serra on this one 390 pounds, is that without the engine? Worked on a early Sporty, the Iron Heads didn't flow worth a shit and this issue was compounded by the compression crown of the piston to get compression. The Iron Heads retained heat badly so pre-ignition was a constant issue. The 4 speed gearbox wasn't all that reliable and NEEDED another gear or a much wider ratio. Had a old 67 Triumph 650 for years and till I sold her EVERY Sportster encountered came out second best. And yes it weighed in at a true 390 lbs.
I remember receiving the edition of "Cycle" (or "Cycle World"...I still enjoy reading it and looking at the pictures) with that beautiful Sportster on the cover (I believe it was entitled "The Aluminum Steam Roller"...if memory serves me correctly) and how the owner raced it on the track against KZ's (and winning). If I recalled correctly, it posted a mid 10 second quarter mile at around 130 mph. That black bike with the XLCR tank (with gold Harley-Davidson classic badge), massively finned Sputh Cylinder heads and cylinders, dual Del-Ortos, flat track tail section with cafe bars and front fender in one of the most beautifully bad-ass motorcycles to ever grace a magazine cover. Congratulations on your prize XL.
@@thomasheer825 Well, I weighed my SPUTHE Sporty on a Scale, came in at about 390....that was a scale used to weigh materials at a welding store, a scale with weights, not a 'spring' type scale...it was certified to be 1% accurate.
It has a very light Honda 400 front fork/wheel/disc brake...aluminum oil tank that I made, a 3# battery, a 2# Steve Fredricks alternator...stock 72 Sporty gas tank...minimal rear 'fender', just enough to hold a license plate...kick-start only.
S&S flywheels, rods and 3-5/8" pistons. Stock Sporty frame (so it's registered and insurance as a 'stock' 72) and swingarm.
I have a couple pics if you would like to see.
@@stillbill6408 thanks! I contacted Alan Sputhe as soon as I read that article. I was living in Los Angeles and met with him just days later, and he built me an engine...it was 3rd or 4th one...his Shop assistant Joel Yamazaki was building a bike with the same type engine, serial# of heads preceding mine...Joel was planning on a 'turbo' on that one.
Had a XB Uly, loved it. With a Twin motorcycles[Dutch Buell specialist] ECM flash. Ran great with that and not so hot anymore.
The Uly was really ahead of it's time! Funny Harley realized they needed an ADV and they essentially had one before.
I really like how you take a good look at Harleys going back up to 30+ years. A lot of us are still riding bikes from these years & your channel fills in some of the gaps. Are you contactable outside of this chsnnel? You're a good guy.....Dave from NZ.
This is my go to channel for interesting HD related topics.
Thank you, I appreciate the support!
Thanks! Loved the Beulls but if I can get a rubber mount to 100hp, I'm good. Nothing cooler than a 2004-2007 Roadster.
No problem, the Rubber mounts have excellent heads! A Hammer 1275, 10.5:1 compression pistons, Hammer 560 cam, good exhaust and a dyno tune will make it happen.
I've loved sportsters since the 60's. I've had two ironheads and several evos. There is a dirt track near here that still races old sporties which is always fun to watch. I had much respect for Buells, too bad what Harley did to Eric Buell.
I still remember the Sportster Performance Series in pro flat track when they ran 883's. Now they've got the Hooligan racing but you've got to run the stock frame.
Have my Buell XB12Ss; rode it to work this morning (~40 minutes); great way to start the day.
I must admit I am a bit jealous, that makes that long commute just that much better. Better than my 40 minute drive this morning in the truck.
@@GixxerFoo I only get 2 or 3 months where the mornings are warmish enough so I gotta make do while I can. The other months can be quite miserable
I have a Dyna and two sportsters, one an XR1200, and the other a Buell Millenium. The XR has immediate throttle response, and if you haven`t ridden anything fast lately it feels like it runs pretty good. All that being said, the Buell with way more power and a bunch less weight, will absolutely leave it for dead. Both have the same amount of miles, between five and six thousand miles. The Buell is a much smoother engine and the transmission is a lot smoother shifting. They both handle pretty good with the XR being top heavy at slower speeds, and downright clumsy to move around, with the footpegs in a very poor position for a standard bike. The Buell has none of those problems and given a good curvy road to hold my attention, I can ride it all day. If you just have to have a sporty Harley, the older tube frame Buell`s like mine are a much better choice overall than a Sportster.
The Buell is way lighter and a much more rigid chassis than the XR, I'd take the Buell over the XR for handling and performance.
Its is of note that the Xb Crank can be retrofitted into a earlyer buell and sportster case with a bit of machining of the cases
Also the xb cranks where later used in the XR1200
That's true they could be fit to the cases, but they for sure weren't going to just swap over.
@@GixxerFoo nope
If your doing a all out engine build on a Xl or early buell
I would recomend the stronger crank
I have a 2008 Buell XB12X. Love it, Even ceramic coated the down pipes too, but still they got really hot...
For sure, with that ceramic coating it dissipated the heat! I am huge fan of ceramic coating. Xb12x was the pinnacle of Buell with the 1200 motor.
GixxerFoo yeah mine has the thunderstorm engine just before the last 2009 I believe mine has silver coating yet the 2009 I think has black cylinders ..
My last bike was a 2004 Buell XB12R Firebolt!! Loved it!!
I wish I would of bought one back when they were everywhere, now they are getting hard to find. Either tore up or in such great shape you don't want to put the miles on it lol.
@@GixxerFoo I actually bought mine in December 2004. It was awesome!! I put a k&n filter, race ecm, technelusion box, and a Drummer pipe on it!! Everytime I went to the track or on our secluded road!! Lol Everyone loved hearing it at high rpm and top speed!! It handled so great on the track!! I myself couldn't or wouldn't push it to it's limits!! Lol The best upgrade were the Pilot Power tires!! The stock Dunlops were awful!! Trail braking in a corner one time!! The bike just stood up!! I went off track in 3rd gear!! I had to seat bump a ditch at Putnam Park road course!! Lol
I ran pilot powers too, awesome tires! That Buell so little rake is was dangerous lol. Reminded of the old CBR 900 with the 16 inch front tire it turned so fast.
Had an 06 xb12r that was a blast to ride. Wheelie machine!
Yes it was! Lol with that short wheel base I would be afraid to put a passenger on there. Your passenger better know how to ride to cause the front end going up.
Damn man! Lots of information! Well done!
i had three buells. 2005 firebolt, a blast i bought for my second wife to ride, and the last was a 2007 lightning scg....and that last one was my favorite. only bike i had i liked as much was my 96 springer.
anyhow.....the great thing about the buells was that they would pull in any gear and were absolute razorblades in the corners. i am not a guy that pushing into corners hard, but those things made even sharp corners almost boringly easy. i LOVED those bikes...and damn harley for doing what they did.
they were not top end monsters....but they sure were a fun, practical bike.
Concur, re the trapdoor.
On a Sporty it does not weaken the design having it there, and from a mechanic's pov, it is sooo easy to pull a transmission.
Definetely accountants winning over engineers on that one.
Prolly saved a Dollar per motor.....
I would almost guarantee it boiled down to cost savings.
I rode my 2002 Buell M2 Cyclone to work every day for 2 years. I'm working on restoring and upgrading it now. I also have a 1971 ironhead Sportster, definitely two completely different bikes and riding styles. I could push my Sportster until I felt the frame flexing and actually broke the frame twice. You definitely can't out ride the performance of the Buell.
In 2004 I picked up a 2001 M2 Cyclone with 1402 miles on it. Parked it in 2005 with 8466 miles on it. Do to ignition going bad. This year I did and aftermarket dyna ignition in the nose cone. And I'm 63 and ride it regularly.
They are getting hard to find these days. Aftermarket support is really strong on those bikes too. Lol to get one l may just have to load up the truck and road trip it.
I was under the impression that Buell also increased the crank pin diameter from 1 1/4" to 1 1/2" starting around 2008 as there were rod bearing/pin problems at high RPM with the smaller diameter pins/bearings. Is that so?
That is true, they did increase the pin diameter.
The replies 17 replies in the first question you asked... just great reading I've read them two or three times over just amazing!!! Thank you guys for your excellent information.
Comments are some the best places to find some answers, just down right interesting sometimes.
So basically, HD stole Buell's ideas and then shut them down. Shameful.
Sadly that's basically what happened, Harley bought about 49% originally of Buell's company and owned almost 100% by the end. I can only imagine how Buell felt having a company and idea he created that was selling a lot of bikes crushed.
@@GixxerFoo He should think about hiring a real Shark to run the business side and really just stick to the creative side. There's definatly a market for what he does. Breaking into corners is my strength so i'd love to try his later models!
@@Jimmy_Jim_Jim_1234 Or go to work for Indian to really stick it to HD.
@@exexpat11 That would be funny.
@@exexpat11 He did go to work for Polaris and was let go after about a year or two. He was not there very long.
I had a xb lightning long and have done some riding on a 98 thunderbolt loved both.
Buells are a very unique experience, there's honestly nothing else to really compare it to. I got to ride a few and I kick myself for not buying one.
I have a '98 thunderbolt st3. Very quick. Do you know what heads they put in them?
@@ericforsberg6542 I think that would be the thunderstorm heads.
@@GixxerFoo Even though thunderbolt was more of a touring model the xb was match more civilised 😂🤣🤪
I had one of the first m2 models that the dealer received. I put s1 cams and a s&s carb on it. Fun bike, but when taken to the track the single brake faded in no time. The exhaust would come lose. That was the only two issues I had with it.
My primary looks exactly like you one you have displayed at 7:01 in the video, which I believe to be an 03 however it came off and 02 tubed frame
Great vid my friend! The XB series are future collectibles in book. Fuel in frame and oil in swingarm, and as you said, pretty much the hottest factory Harley engine of the day! Way Cool!
Thank you! Those bikes were just way ahead of their time!
I enjoy the way you explain things. Can you do a video on the sumping and related issues with the M8s?
I've got one that explains what happens with sumping and the oil pump here th-cam.com/video/ISB0V0OfuDw/w-d-xo.html
I have the 2004 xb12s. Buell is special. Soooooo much fun
I have a 98 Cyclone M2, i love riding it in any weather. One bike i won't be selling that's a fact.
I love my 03 XB9R. It has a factory buell race kit. A rare swing arm modification for chain drive conversion. Ohlins rear shock, race tech tuned forks. It's a great street/track bike. May not be a rocket like todays 600cc sport bikes. But it surely makes up for it in It's tight curvy road handling and the torque grunt out of the curves.
Buell was way ahead of it's time, and thanks to Willie G and his stupidity along with Harley, ruined the buell legacy. Funny how they crawled back to buell engineers to make the revolution max
Harley wouldn't of been hit so hard if they would of let Buell draw in new riders years ago. Buell was what got me interested in Harley, l thought they were dumb till l rode one. Once you learn that power on the Buell is all down low usable power that come on quick you forget about the top speed figures.
@@GixxerFoo for sure. Now that willie g is out of the picture, harley can finally catch up. It's because of willie g and his obsession with tRaDiTiOn, that harley never had liquid cooled motors along with other modern technology we should have already incorporated into Harleys bikes. I'm a harley mechanic and I don't own a harley, for good reason, and I love harley. But I'm going to wait to see what they replace the m8 with now that they have the revolution max. It would be awesome to see a big twin version of the revolution max motor on a road king.
Since Buell Motorcycles had been doing business (separate from Harley Davidson) for several years with the Austrian company Rotax for their really fast modern water cooled engines that were built into Buell's motorcycles later on, Harley Davidson was introduced to the Rotax engine factory at the time. This relationship has proven to be valuable because the latest generation Sportster S engines and the Sportster Pan Am engines both come from Austria (Europe) from Rotax engine block company. And so the circle is complete again
I would honestly rather see Harley reach out for assistance and build a solid product rather than a disastrous in house design. Just like when Internationa built diesels for Ford. Rock solid and unkillable, then Ford brought it in house and well that was bad lol.
@@dutchyjhome
I thought HD claimed Revolution Max to be THEIR engine, although I have been suspicious of that claim all along. What is the evidence of a Rotax connection?
I've got an 09 Ulysses and an 01 dyna with gear driven cams along with a 96 Sportster S. They're the last 3 bikes I'll ever own
That's an awesome spread on bikes! I wish I had a stable like that in my garage!
Didn't know that buell wasn't a sportster engine now I do. Good info.
It was in the beginning and there towards the end it was just a concept of it.
every sporter person riding my buell, said OMG this thing has more of every thing...(1999) ..one crotch rocket guy, as he rev'd up, lost grip on the handle bars...came back and said, never experienced that much torque on a motorcycle before...harley screwed up getting rid of the buell...even the ducati riders loved the buell.
The worst part about my Buell XB9 is that it has ANY association with HD. It’s akin to Lada owning Porsche!
05 sporty, 1275 hammer performance kit, massaged heads new springs 11.5 to 1 comp, 550 cams, tbr 2 into 1 exhaust with a little custom work, mukuni carb with work, digitech ign with 7400 rpm red line. 107 hp and 97 ft lbs to the rear tire. On pump gas, a little more on 110 leaded with timing added.
That's what I'm talking about, I love Hammer products!
@@GixxerFoo the product, the customer service, the tech info. A hard 26k miles NO problems NONE!!!!!!!!!
Aaron and Dan are awesome, l have never seen a company so truly interested in the success of your build. They aren't there to just take your money and not answer the phone.
I got a Buell blast a couple of weeks ago and its a pretty fun starter bike.
Building a 83 XL frame with a 99 X-1 Lightening motor. Changed ignition to Ultima, CV carb and high flow air cleaner with stock Sportster crossover exhaust. TBH I wish I’d just bought a 1200S.
That's gonna be a fun bike to ride, for sure unique!
@@GixxerFoo I just bought a 1200s 👊😜
I got a xb9sx and a ulysses xb12x for longer travels. Awesome bikes, must say.
Those bikes are a lot of fun! Getting hard to find these days.
Great video, very informative. Can you make a video like this about the XR1200?
That's not a bad idea, there's been a lot of questions about the XR and how it compared to the Buell.
@@GixxerFoo I've seen a lot of videos of reviews and people talking about how great the XR is but nobody really gets into the nuts and bolts of the differences between the XR and the xl. As an XR owner I personally would love to watch that video.
I've got a set of Buell Lightning heads I've been waiting to put on my Sportster, I've just got to get a good set of pistons...lol
Those heads are hard to find these days!
Thank you for putting this video together
Glad you enjoyed it!
Interesting information. This discussion is a big thing. Is Buell XB a HD? It's like there are two sides of that question when it comes to a discussion. You have some great facts about this forever going expertise discussion.
Yes and no, it does share some things that are compatible with a sportster but the crank and cases are not one of them. The cams will fit a Sportster they are just installed in reverse order for the XB, heads, cylinders and pistons will work but the front mount on the heads the bolt size is different. But for all intents and purposes the XB was about as far from Harley as they got.
@GixxerFoo Thanks for the Info .. I never had any desire to own a Harley definitely not one with Forward controls.
So in 2010 HD spent $115 Million to shut down the new Buell Factory in Rice Lake WI and Eliminate 400 American Jobs.
I really don't know a Road Hog, from a Road Couch from a Road King.
Eric Buell was such a Genius that I bought a 2008 Buell Ulysses. The bike handles great, but that air Cooled V-Twin roasts your legs and crotch non stop.
You forgot to mention that the Thunderstorm engine also has air scoops to cool the rear cylinder , plus an oil cooler , plus and electric fan to pull hear off from the motor even when you shut it off.
On a hot day in City Traffic the gasoline in your frame gets so hot it causes vapor lock spits sputters and bogs ect. Everything works better if you can keep it up at Highway speeds.
I purchased a 2006 Buell Owners manual that calls for you to use 91 Octane gas. Maybe I will have to watch your video again to recall what year they raised the compression to 10 to 1 which is quite a lot for a large air cooled cylinder.
Water Injection would be a great addition to an air cooled engine.. but I can only find versions for cars like snow Performance and the size of the pumps ect are so bulky to add to a motorcycle .
I have a set of the thunderstorm heads I might put on my 1250 sporty. It has ported 883 heads on it now, runs good, I'm unsure what cams are in it cause I've yet to open the chest up.
XR 1200 Whole new animal , had any experience with them ? Factory redline 7,000 , heads oil cooled , big downdraft throttle body , I've got mine "warmed up" a little bit & it rips......
I missed one! The parts manager at my local dealer had a orange and black 09. It wasn't for sale but he rode it one day and a guy from Europe saw it and offered him stupid money. It went back to Europe with the new owner.
@@GixxerFoo They actually originally only sold the XR in Europe (2008) so many guys like me that had been building their own hot rod Sportsters (me since 1967) went nuts & raised so much hell they started selling them in USA in 2009 , did you know that Harley & Vance & Hines sponsored a spec racing class for the Bike in AMA Pro Road Racing ?
I really LIKED BUELL…was totally BUMMED when the News of BUELL/HD terminated production!
It's one of the biggest corporate blunders ever, they wouldn't be in the position they are now if they would of started expanding their line in 2009.
@@GixxerFoo It was the idiot new "CEO" they hired him from Johnson Controls , all he wanted was a "golden parachute" Suck a huge amount of money out of the Company & retire/get let go , he just wanted $$$$ had no real interest in the future of the Company , only his own .
I owned a XB9s and that was a great bike in many ways. But what I miss after i bought the xb12s 2005 is the driving experience. It was a very quick and easy to handle in the streets of city or on the roads with nice corners. It was totally complete with a perfect balance. What is possible to do with the xb12s to get closer to the xb9s? I heard that changing the drive line from the xb9 would get the wider acceleration range. I am located in Sweden which the xb9 both s and r only is available of the year 2003. Anyone that have been doing any modifications to the xb12s to make it more quicker and more efficient?
That XB12 is a tough act to follow, you can put a Hammer big bore kit on them but they already make a lot of power right out of the box. Those bikes are some canyon carving machines right there!
@@GixxerFoo Thanks for sharing your thoughts. The big bore from Hammer is about 1200$ if im not totally wrong. Is it worth spending that money? At the moment i have the OEM race exhaust and race ecm. Mapped by a experience company. But a friend told me to change the front sprocket from a xb9 to get better acceleration. Is it something you heard of.
There are a lot of differences:
XR has different heads, not so much in terms of flow but oil passages
XR has different cams, they are not .551 cams but a different grind
XR has a different crank borrowed from the 2009? XB12's which allow it to rev to 7K rpm safetly
XR has a different oil pump borrowed from the 2009? XB12's
Gearing is also different between an XL1200 and XR.
Downdraft FI for the XR
They were similar but for sure not the same bike.
I still have my 2007 XB12Scg... I've let it sit too long and it needs to be overhauled.. Gotta find someone to do the work..
I just wish you could find reliable mechanics for these things.. Even when Harley serviced them it was always hit/miss
Thanks for doing this video. Keep up the good work.
Thanks, will do!
Looks great. Where did you get the license plate clean up piece? I've looked all.over. any help would be appreciated
You talking about the lay down license plate? I've found them for earlier Sportsters, but not one that fits the 2014 and newer.
Had 4 Buells,101 horsepower of pure ecstasy.
Plus it handled!
I own a 2001 Buell X1 lightning and I absolutely I love the bike.
i have a s1 for 20 years love it
That's awesome, they are some fun bikes!
2016 onwards sporty engine casings are they heavy duty to take major motor up grades like the after market heavy duty evo engine casings ?
Keep up the good work
Yep !
Bikes are my glue!
2004 to present are the same bottom ends, just in 2007 they all went fuel injected but the lower end remained the same.
I also noticed less commentary, but I guess you like the rest of us have a inherent need to be in the wind.....ride on bro!
742wezzi
Nice presentation, very informative.
Thank you, I appreciate it!
Question im looking at getting a 1997 s2t thunderbolt, and knowing what i know now can i bolt a 1250 or a 1275 kit to it or would i be wasting money?
You can put a 1275 on that with some Hammer cams and it will really wake it up! Those bikes power output is about what a late model EFI Sportster puts down. You would be up about 80 to 90 horse depending on what compression and exhaust you choose to run.
Is it possible to put the late model xb crank with the 1 1/2 in crank pin into a 98 S1 motor,or could I modify my stock crank to take a larger crank pin ?.
It could be done but it would require some machining work, it won't be drop in but it can for sure be done!
I had heard that Eric Buell wanted the Vrod motor for his RX1100. Harley refused because they wanted to allocate them to Vrod production. His decision to use the Rotax motor pretty much doomed his relationship wth H-D. Is there any truth to this?
I can't attest to the validity of that but it makes sense. The Vrod motor was originally Harley's road racing engine and then it was tweaked and re-engineered for the street. Buell had one year of racing with the XBRR before he went to Rotax, that all lines up with the time Harley offed the Buell line. I can only imagine what Buell could of done with that motor in his chassis. Harley shutting down Buell is on the list of the biggest corporate blunders ever.
You are correct. Eric wanted the VRod motor but HD wanted to put the engine in the bloated VRod frame to compete in Cruiser drag racing. Later HD hated they were buying Rotax engines for Buell bikes. Dealers did not want to work on them.
@@exexpat11 IMHO you are correct about the Vrod being a detuned bloated monstrosity. But l guess that is what you get when you put some one who went to art school instead of engineering school to head up the design department simply because his last name was Davidson. 😏 BTW l've heard the performance of the factory Vrod dragster has been rather lackluster.
The Rotax was a good motor, but it had no character or soul, things I consider absolutely essential in any motorcycle.
@@geraldscott4302 Nostalgia certainly can be a consideration. I have been riding H-D and other bikes for upwards of fifty years. To me the whole nostalgia thing started wearing thin about twenty years ago. I'm so happy that H-D is finally going with more up to date technology. I'm seriously looking at the new Sportster S.. However l have learned better than to buy fist year production.🙂
One thing you forgot to mention was the lighter weight of the Buell. Power to weight was definitely better on the Buell. I still have 5 Buell's, 09 xb12xt, 04xb12s,00 Lighting x1, 00 Cyclone, 99s3t, and a ebr sx. They are good bikes that can be bought now very reasonable.
The sportster that intrigues me the most is the XR 1000.. It was a serious looking machine. I have read that it also performed very well. I also liked the XR twelve hundred . from what I understand it was purely cosmetic . what do you know about these two models ?
The XR1200 is not cosmetic, it has inverted Showa forks and taller adjustable shocks, dual disc's rotors with dual 4 piston Nissin calipers, dual disc master cylinder and a better rear master cylinder. It has a down draft throttle body/fuel injection like the buells, larger cams, a different cam chest with an oil cooler, higher compression and higher flowing exhaust, and the same crankshaft used in the 2008+ Buell XB. It also had a higher redline and different gearing than the XL1200 to name a few things. I hope this answers your question!
Thank you for the information. I did not know that.
@@hhplymouth9473 the XR1200X had a few more options too, mostly suspension related I believe. The XR1200 made roughly 90hp compared to the 60hp the XL made. I have a beefed up XL making 100+hp but I dream of buying an XR1200 and a Buell XB12SCG in the next year or two!
The XR1200 is a rare bike to find. They are not cheap if you do find one.
@@hhplymouth9473 I was looking at prices south of the border a while back and they seemed a bit high! Here in Canada there are a few of them for sale on Kijiji for anywhere from $6000-10000 Canadian, so like $4000-8000 USD but I expect those prices to rise a lot in the near future. I am trying to find a good one relatively close to me and when I do I 100% will buy it and never sell it!
What was in the 08-12 XR1200's? They show to have made 90 HP.
The XR's had the .551 cams, down draft fuel injection, 10.0:1 compression, basically the XB heads which were the same heads from the XL 07 on. Timing was a bit hotter, it revved higher than the XL Sportster. I believe they also had a bit lighter crank similar to the XB at the time. The also had the 2 into 1 to 2 exhaust, they had a lot more freedom with the style of the bike to use down draft injection and a large air box.
I have a 1998 xl1200s. Dual spark plugs. Pretty bike. Has k&n, pipes, carb work. Crappy motorcycle but real good looking parked.
They are some good looking bikes, still the rigid too! They had some Buell tech in those which made them hotter than the standard XL at the time.
I have a 97 Buell S1 lighting engine on a rigged bobber frame, 1st is there a way I can find out if that's what engine i have, thsts what the title says buy I wanna make sure, 2nd I'm having issues with power it idles like a mean cat but when I give it the throttle she dies, I have tried using carburetor cleaner in it, but I'm nervous out taking the carb apart, and if I wanted to charge the carb, where can I find one that will fit along with a better air cleaner than I have
You could look up the Vin on the engine, that would tell you exactly what it is or maybe even a Harley dealer could still run the Vin. Sounds like you're going to have to get a full rebuild on the carb, that's where I would start and check for air leaks as well on the seal to the cylinders.
Good vid. With performance numbers would have been a GREAT vid.
Thank you, I appreciate it!
Buell thunderstorm head was all the rage. Could get new set from the dealership. Then they were gone like a fart in a hurricane. My first Harley build I found a used set on eBay. Better than winning the lottery. Ported 883 heads might have worked better. Buells had 6800 rpm red line. The big vavles work have worked there. And the muffler trick.
Thunderstorm heads were the ultimate Sportster upgrade! Now you can the heads off a 2007 or newer model which are even better. You can even put the FI heads on a carb bike, Hammer makes a wider manifold to adapt a carb to them.
You are the man thank you for sharing the knowledge! Any interest in building me a turboed xb9? After reading the comments on how they were originally designed for one it seems like a dream bike
You are welcome, anytime! I don't think I have ever seen a Buell with a turbo on one, they'd be a good candidate for one though.
I thought Buell updated the 984 thunderstorm in 2005? You stated the bronze gear wasn’t utilized until 2006?
XR1200 is everything a Buell XB or 1125 never was. Fast...comfortable...aesthetically pleasing...reliable...proven technology....conventionally mounted exhaust....well-sorted prior to production. And to answer your question....H-D did in fact install an Buell XB based 1203cc motor into one of their models. It's called the XR1200.
Way heavier too
@@calincampbell5637 not by much when you diet it.
That was such a neat bike, but they used the standard sportster cases and it was heavier. It's a shame it didn't catch on in the US, it was very popular in Europe though.
@@GixxerFoo XR's are wonderful bikes and out of the 500 or so bikes that i've owned in my 55 years of riding...arguably the most pleasant and enjoyable bike for those evening short hops and day trippin'. Odd thing was that here in the US...people for decades were asking for a street version of the XR750 GN flat tracker. So when H-D finally builds what they think the people want, it sells like wildfire in Europe it's first year of production in 2008, where they all were shipped to. US result for 2009-2012 models? Dealers couldn't give them away. Go figure
Right? They even had the XR1200 series in road racing. That was pretty cool to watch. Like with anything Harley they quit making it and it becomes popular.
Sportsters and Buells...excellent bikes ! In your story you've talked about XL's and Buells, but how about the love baby between The Sportster XL 1200 and a Buell XB12: The Sportster XR1200 !
When I got one, mine had 90HP and 100 Newtonmeter Torque standard... and after a 2 in 1 exhaust swap by Twin-motorcycles in Ysselstein in The Netherlands, and of course with the mandatory switch of Mapping which comes with the exhaust to be installed, my XR1200 had 105HP and 120Newtonmeter torque and gaining power was not even the set target. I wanted to get rid of the power dip my XR1200 (every XR1200) comes with standard. Well the power dip was gone and I had a little power gain as well. Man this XR1200 would rip... and cornering was like a true sportbike: knee down and full trottle. Man I misbehaved myself with this XR1200...
And then of course...there is the XR1000....
How about these bikes ? Where do they fit in your story?
The XR1000 actually is what started Buell, when the 1000 Buell didn't sell Buell got the left over engines. That's how he got started basically, not he XR1200 that was all Harley. Although the XR1200 actually had quite a bit of Buell tech, down draft injection and hotter cams. Harley had more freedom with the style of the bike and the two into two factory system. Shame that XR1200 didn't take off in the States, it was one of the best Sportsters ever built.
@@GixxerFoo I really can not agree with you more ! In my modest opinion the XR1200 is the bike which carries the name SPORTSTER as justly as it gets.
After all it really is a sportbike, a naked sport bike as we would call it here in Europe, since the bike comes without any fairing...
Sorry the Sportster engine was FAR INFERIOR, dealt with both and yes parts would interchange for the most part, but and a big BUT. Take a Sportster down and take a Buell down and you can easily see that the Buell engine was much stronger built. Harley would have done well to simply dump their engine and go 100% Buell engine from the get go. Simply Eric fixed the major FLAWS in Piss Poor Design from the HD engineering department.
@@thomasheer825 No one here was going to question the quality of Buell motorcycles… this subject is undisputed.
Eric Buell's skills to make something out of nothing and his quest for perfection will not be a question for anyone. The approach of Gixxerfoo was actually to address the familial role between the different engines and their developments that they have endured. I am therefore convinced that the final Buell versions of the Harley Davidson Sportster engines have been improved on more than 1 point. It is in line with expectations that the Harley Davidson XR1200 engine is built on the basis of the Buell engines available at the time, much more than that an XR1200 engine descends from the standard Sportster XL1200. It worked out very well in terms of timing: Harley Davidson had disbanded Buell not long before the development of the XR1200, so all of Buell's technology was available to Harley Davidson and so not long after Buell was discontinued, the Harley Davidson XR1200 appeared on the scene... all very coincidental, or not!
Since Buell Motorcycles had been doing business (separate from Harley Davidson) for several years with the Austrian company Rotax for their really fast modern water cooled engines that were built into Buell's motorcycles later on, Harley Davidson was introduced to the Rotax engine factory at the time. This relationship has proven to be valuable because the latest generation Sportster S engines and the Sportster Pan Am engines both come from Austria (Europe) from Rotax engine block company. And so the circle is complete again
Enjoy the bike and forget about the torque and HP #. Use how it feels riding it to figure out how you feel about the power and speed. You'll enjoy it way more than you will hearing somebody with a turbo charged Hayabusa break down those numbers.
Have you ever seen one of those S&S Sportster crate motors?
Those are pretty trick 100 inch motors, I don't think they sell it anymore. It was taller than a stock Sportster motor but it will fit in a rigid mount frame. Rusty Butcher has a Sportster with one of the S&S's in it.
I just love my tube framed Buell’s. They are and were ahead of their time. I wish Harley still had them in their portfolio as well. At my local dealership, they have a Buell mechanic in the shop, but they will not take a Buell in for any kind of service. Frustrating. Love Buell!
did you see that they are making Buells again? not Harley but a group of people i think on a per order basis. i seen a vid on it a while back . they was at a bike show , Daytona i think, they had a booth setup. i always liked the innovation of Buells myself. good vid
Thank you! They are making Buells again, he got some investors backing him and they are building them in limited numbers. Hopefully it takes off and he can start mass producing again.
@@GixxerFoo Eric is not involved with Buell any more. He moved on a long time ago to electric cycles. He has publicly announced this in the hope of preventing the false information that is prevalent in this comment section. He even says it himself specifically. The new Buell is the old Buell purchased from the liquidators. Plenty of information out there about it.
Not Buell, Buells. The latest iteration of the company has zero Eric Buell involvement. He was not invited to the party after the last investment group sod him out. EBR is not Eric Buell's and has not been since 2014ish. Same company bought the assets from HD relaunched without him. Don't want to omit that their improvements to the 2014 ebr were of his his yet to be executed changes from that 2014 end of Buell. So many coat tailed this guy, I hope he makes E motorcycle so great they try again to get him in their design and engineering and he just says NO! Maybe his newest adventures put and end to the Livewire.
With Erik Buell Harley Davidson could have had some very competitive sport bikes. Instead, they put all there eggs in the nostalgia basket... and the rest, as they say, is history.
Now they are trying to walk that very same mistake back today.
Still infusing his engineering ideas into the Milwaukee 8 platform. They should have turned over all engineering, research and development to him. That would cut that budget by 80% due to his efficient and hire right people instead of labeled people for the job then tell these people what you need form them and et them do it. Harley is ran by ego and megalomania.
Later ally beam frame Buells with the single ally pushrod tube per cylinder - very very BSA B31/B33/Gold Star.
I have a recipe in mind for a Sportie. Hammer Performance, clip-ons, solo seat, mids., 2 into 1, upgraded shocks, & larger rear sprocket.
Or how about something ludicrous?
Trask Performance Turbo, hardtailed, 10" Mini Apes on 6 up/4back risers, springer forks, with a springer seat. Add a split Softail tank.😁
Can ya tell I like to build? May not be able to Ride the beast across country but around town it would be a hoot. 🤔 Second thought, swap engine set-up.