I think I would actually bump Lances up a rank. Of the 3 people with Swift Strikes, two also have a Crest which has a chance to negate counter attacks on EACH hit. There are also 4 people who get Frozen Lance, which can be reliably devastating in the right hands. Vengeance is abusably good as well. Throw in the fact that Lance skill is required for virtually every mounted class and it's not like it's an investment people are having to go out of their way for.
Ok but negating a counter doesnt matter when you just kill and most lance classes have an awful movement type, being grounded mount, so effectivly either loose 10 damage or have to deal with being alergic to any type of terrain
@@sadagusfate Leaving aside the fact that Pegasus and Falcon Knight are both Lance classes, I have to say that thinking a ground mounted class has horrible movement is a hot take to say the least. Just dismount in bad terrain and you have the same movement as everyone else on foot. You do you though.
@@jamesoakes4842 pegasus don't get a lancefair so it's just falcos, which is a master class which in general are just way more effort then they're worth and is genderlocked so isn't a particularly amazing class in the context of a run, but is why i said most, and no dismounting doesn't help much as now your still just left with a bad movement type of regular grounded
@@sadagusfate But mounted classes are still better than normal foot soldiers for movement. If you're that hung up on being affected by terrain... I think you've just discovered why the Fire Emblem community is so in love with Warp.
@@jamesoakes4842 yeah and warp isn't by itself enough in 3h, you typically want flying movement or the free grounded movement of grapplers or assassins, or having stupid high range CA to just skip a bunch of movement, 3h gives you a ton of movement boosts to where horses having a natural +3 is fairly negligible and is often overkill, but has a tendency to be so terrain heavy that the extra penalties can be debilitating, it's still better then normal grounded, but it's not good in the context of 3h where you're just wanting to clear basically all maps in a single turn of action
Great Video Adam! One thing you forgot to mention about Dark Magic is Luna which is primarily associated with Lysithea but it gives her an edge over the rest of mages bc it lets her kill other mages. Another thing is that although Dark Magic 2x until gremory, they tend to have more uses in general. By level 5, Hubert will have 8 Mires while Dorothea will have 4 Thorons until Warlock
Good list. Only real edit is I would switch Swords and White Magic. Swords unlock the best enemy phase sweeper units in the game. Even Nostanking would benefit a tremendous amount from Vantage support. Additionally, you get a number of pretty neat swords through your run (with the bests being the Killer variants and Thunderbrand) that make crit builds a lot easier to put together.
I mean you never have to use a sword to get vantage given its such a low rank requirment, the best enemy phase sweepers are dimitri and fortress knights taking 0 anyway, as well as just generally ep units having less uses given its a very player phase game of boss killing
@@sadagusfate Sure, but none of those points are a reason why White magic is a better offensive weapon than swords. I will push back and say that while Dimitri is an excellent EP sweeper, any unit with Vantage can make it work. Swords are the most natural line for EP sweeping , avoid builds and some crit builds. You can do them on other weapon types but with more opportunity cost. White magic doesn't really offer anything unique except for nosferatu which benefits from the unit dipping into swords for vantage anyway.
@@atlas9162 no i agree white magic is worse but i think your argument is silly, swords have a brave variant, have effective damage options, and have crit options with good hit for if you need to divine pulse rig a kill, white magic has uh, the potential to maybe 2hko an enemy sometimes? And has like 1 good class that can use it, being the female only dlc locked dark flier Tho i do want to note if your going for dodge builds you use gauntlets and if your going for kill in 1 hit you use axes with vantage wrath, swords are just the budget options of both
I remember when the game was newer people talking about gauntlets being “broken” but then that going away as the “meta”(?) moved towards swift strikes/HV/PBV. No real point to make, just something kinda interesting (to me) that I remember. 🤷🏻♀️
I agree that swords are generally bad because of the bad classes they have, as well as having no ranged weapons besides Levin Sword. But I have been giving my assassin Byleth a rapier since the very beginning and it’s such a broken weapon, being effective towards heavy armor and riding classes. And since she’s an assassin, bows will cover the flying classes. If you buy the DLC, I believe you get 3 more Rapiers, which I give to all other sword users on my team (i always have 2 assassins generally because i love them). My conclusion is that swords in general suck, but the best ones are really damn good.
I love hard mode because my White Magic Avoid Nosferatu Dodge Tank Dorothea was the MVP of Crimson Flower’s final map, it’s so fun! Now I’m using that build on Byleth too, though with Quick Riposte I think Byleth might be better. I didn’t think Dorothea would be worth it since she only has Nosferatu, but Gremory and Bishop giving 24 uses of Nosferatu is so fun lol
@@CAPAE ooos lol you’re right, it was really fun! I give Gremory Dorothea and Byleth the shoes of the wind item for +1 movement so they can get into position easier It was such a fun build, though it’s more of a late game thing / a new game plus thing if you wanna start utilizing the build early My abilities are Faith Prowess Lvl 5, White Magic Avoid +20, White Tomefaire, Alert Stance+, and… i don’t remember the 5th one all of a sudden… well Quick Riposte for Byleth will be good, and for Dorothea I might have just slapped Magic +2 on her?
I really wished that there were more 1-2 ranged swords, besides the Levin and Viskam, there are no ranged swords. There should of been daggers in this game
I think magic in general is better than bow because of 2 main reasons… 1) weapons breaking is annoying.. 2) there are too many armored enemy units making bow useless compared to magic. Maybe I am doing somethin wrong? Lol
I think swords are fine as weapons. Early game maddening they are light enough to not get some units doubled but accurate enough to not miss. They just lack end game options outside of crit builds.
I think the biggest points towards white magic are seraphim and white magic avoid but definitely still not enough to bump it higher. Lances should beat out axes Imo but otherwise yeah.
Axes: kill things Lances: doesnt kill things I mean theyre good early game but by time you get to level 20 which is like 2/5 of the way through, axes just become oppressivly busted cause brave axe wyvern go brrr
@@sadagusfate Alternatively lances have a lot more good combat arts, and effective lances are usually more valuable than effective axes since the latter can be replaced by magic weapons or spells with total ease.
@@wolftamerwolfcorp7465 brave axes ohko in 0% growths all the way through endgame, they simply don't need combat arts in 99% of scenarios, lances do have an amazing early game, but their early combat arts stop really mattering much after chapter 6 cause by then your ohkoing without them anyway, and late game it's only 5 units with consistent ohko lance combat arts (3 swift strikes and dedue/cyril vengance) meanwhile brave axes are just universal As for effectiveness, maces exist and serve for easy one rounds on armoured enemies becuse they get doubled, and are the only unit type that would take more then 2 brave axe hits from a 0% growths wyvern
@@sadagusfate Just gotta check what difficulty we’re talking, because maces absolutely do not one round armors on any difficulty where weapon differences matter, axe of urkansova from some units, sure; but then we get into the discussion of if it’s worth your mythril over something like the spear of assal. That aside, brave axes are definitely really good but that alone isn’t enough to call axes better weapons than lances. Your vengeance user list lacks Bernadetta who might not necessarily be as optimal of a vengeance user as the other two but can still ohko with it.
@@wolftamerwolfcorp7465 I purposely excluded bernadetta cause come late game her vengance kill rate is kinda shaky and enemy dependant or simply requires a ton of recources, and difficulty wise I'm talking maddening cause normal and easy you can just easily solo with training weapons And yeah maces do easily one round armours, like brave axes do with characters with decent strengh growth, maces are just that but with more power to compensate worse growths
The problem with axes is that they are risky early game maddening. Before you can get stuff like hit +20 or axefaire you'll be having sub 80% (if not worse) hit rates and that's too unreliable. Combat arts help mitigate this player phase, but not enemy phase. Axes become really good in the mid game though. I think to accurately judge a weapon type, you have to consider the whole journey and not just the end product.
At C rank in bows every unit gets close counter. C can realistically be achieved in just a couple of chapters. For most of the game, bows do in fact have 1 range on enemy phase.
Gauntlets are incredible, with Death blow and stacked Fistfaires, that’s +32 damage guaranteed on player phase, +64 if you quad. And because they’re so light you have a better chance of quadding than any other weapon.
You lose MT due to the lowered base damage. Deathblow + Faire and quad is not exclusive to gauntlets. Falcon Knights with Spears/Swords can quad with brave sword/spear fairly consistently. I think gauntlets are overhyped TBH.
@@IcedCoffeeGaming that is true that Brave weapons are good too but remember that Guantlets are very easily replaced when they run out of durability and are pretty easy to forge. brave weapons are uncommon and pretty expensive to repair with a rare black smith material but if you have Brave weapons they are amazing
@@SleepyBrady True on the repairing, I find that I can usually double with silver lance + on falcon knights to one round kill or use the brave as needed kind of situation.
If anyone else was confused like me here are the spells for Black & Dark Magic Black: Fire, Bolganone, Thunder, Thoron, Wind, Cutting Gale, Excalibur, etc. Dark: Mire, Miasma, Banshee, Death, Dark Spikes, etc. (basically any spell that is followed by a Greek Letter)
Cyril doesn't need hunter's volley as he already gets point blank volley, which means he can go a high move class like bow knight or wyvern lord while keeping the insane kill potential of point hunters volley
Swords have a few special variations that other weapons don't. Two major ones being Rapier+ and the Thunderbrand. These swords are so powerful that the lack of really good combat arts doesn't affect them too much. Imo there's no way they deserve the last place by the sheer force of these kinds of special swords. Lances are surprisingly low but I admit that if you don't have either Swift Strikes, Frozen Lance or Vengeance they fall off very hard. There's a good amount of relics and the Spear of Assal that helps a bit but I wouldn't bother unless you have a combat art or you're Dimitri. I'm not the biggest fan of axes in 3H but I'll 100% concede that Smash ages a lot better than every basic combat art minus Curved Shot. A thing Black Magic has over Dark Magic is also the siege tomes but I agree with the placement. Bows being 1st is well deserved.
Indeed. Last place should rightfully belong to axes or white magic (if we are excluding their utility magic, and only focusing on their attack magic.) I always have uses for swords, as they are among the lightest weapons, specially for mounted units which can't use gauntlets.
@@DiogoJ1 Yeah Faith is by far the worst if we stick the offensive ones. Personally my pick for weakest weapon nowadays would go to gauntlets because as nice as a Brave effect is I find them too limited in usage and they essentially lock you out of Canto unless you use the fetters. If I can see a specific benchmark that requires their low weight I won't be shy about using them but they've been very situational in my runs lately. I rarely have dedicated brawler.
I don't care if I get hate because of this opinion, but here is my list: 1) Gauntlets. They're the most fun and rewarding to use imo. The classes dedicated to them are very good. Their lightweight combined with Prowess lvl 5 giving Avoid +20, combined with Brawl Avo +20 makes them among the best at Avoid builds, so there are still multiple good reasons to use them on Enemy Phase. They also have good hit and high durability. Training ones have a whopping 90 hits. Fading Blow and Rushing Blow have their usefulness, especially early game where you won't be dealing that much damage, even with 2-4 hits per round of combat. Fierce Iron Fist rocks, and Pneuma Gale, a magical strike with 1-2 range you can give to anyone also has its moments. Nimble Combo and Bombard are decent, One-Two Punch is all right, and I really wish Raphael wasn't the only unit with Monster Crusher, which still has a big damage boost on regular enemies. Mighty Blow however sucks, don't bother with it. The Aura Knuckles like you said have the power to be the best Player Phase Magic Attacks, Killer Knuckles can be extremely strong, and in a game without Wyrmslayers and Combat Arts only available on Weapons that have low durability and can't be repaired easily, Dragon Claws are especially valuable for fighting Dragons. 2) Swords. Nearly every argument against it boils down to: "Low Mt, therefore bad." They're still light, have high durability, hit, and Prowess lvl 5 gives 20 Avoid. Swordmaster, a class that gets more hate than it deserves, is still good, especially with Sword Crit+10. There are several good weapons, like the Wo Dao, Rapier, Sublime Creator Sword, Thunderbrand, and more. Windsweep and Soulblade are pretty good Combat Arts. They're not complete garbage and I will die on this hill. NO ONE will tell me otherwise. Astra and Assassinate however are useless, and they're not worth mastering their respective classes though, I'll give people that. 3) Bows. Big range, Classes have high Dexterity, Hunter's Volley can one-shot most non-durable enemies up to 4 spaces away, and has several other good Combat Arts like Curved/Waning/Break Shot, Encloser, and I've gotten some decent mileage out of Deadeye. I do wish there was one that scaled off of one of your other stats for a big damage strike like the other weapons have though. 4. Axes. I can sometimes swap this with Bows. They're Powerful, have high durability, and all of their dedicated classes are pretty good, and even have some of the best class masteries in the game. They are held back by having lower hit, high Wt, and Prowess lvl 5 only gives +10 Avoid, meaning they aren't as reliable at dodgetanking. Though in a way it makes them more creative and interesting to use than other weapons. Smash can make up for their low hit, most units with Armored Strike have high defense, so that will deal a lot of damage, and Monster Piercer still gives +9 Mt on its own. I barely use Wild Abandon and Diamond Axe for obvious reasons, but they have amazing potential. Exhaustive Strike is just funny, even if it's really gimmicky, but it's still not the worst one in the game imo. I don't think the Armored Classes are bad either. Low movement? Big deal, that's what Stride and A+ riding are for, especially since the latter is required for Great Knight, as well as several other things. I'm sick of people acting like low Movement makes a class unplayable. 5) Reason Magic. I can also swap it out with Bows and Axes sometimes, because of its usefulness in certain areas. It does have its fair share of problems though. The biggest one? Aside from Reason Prowess, why does the game treat Black and Dark Magic as 2 different spell types? Warlock and Dark Flier only have Black Tomefaire and Black Magic uses×2, meaning it's near useless on Hubert, Lysithea and Hapi, Gremory and Valkyrie need both spell types to take up ability slots, and because of the 3 aforementioned units spell lists, they can't participate in Black Magic Battle Tournaments at the Monastery unless you reclass them into Mages which has the Fire spell. Edelgard has both Black and Dark Magic spells, but her budding talent only applies to the former and S/S+ abilities to the latter. Who honestly thought this was a good idea? To keep this shorter, I'll just say that I pretty much agree with all the other positives and negatives people have with this class. Thyrsus isn't the only range increasing staff in the game though, and even if the other one only gives +1 instead of +2, that does not make it bad or useless in any way, and it comes from the easiest Paralogue in the game. I also like Uncanny Blow. 6) Lances. I just don't enjoy using this weapon that much compared to the others and to an extent Reason magic. Average Mt, Average Hit, Average Wt, and low durability. They don't excel in anything. Sure, there are a few really good ones like Areadbar, Luin, the Lance of Ruin, Gradivus and the Spear of Assal, and it has some excellent Combat Arts like Tempest Lance, Glowing Ember, Lance Jab, Swift Strikes, and Vengeance, which is one of the best in the whole game, but they've just always felt really unsatisfying to me. One reason is that there aren't any good Crit builds that emphasize using them. There's no equivalent of Swordmaster, Warrior, War Master, or even Grappler and Sniper which their exclusive Combat Arts have boosted Crit. Pegasus Knights, which for some reason only have 6 movement while enemies have 7 and Lancefaire, may have Triangle Attack, but that's Female only aside from NG+ Byleth, and can be used with any weapon. There are a few good moments with them, like Falcon Knight Avoid Tanks, especially with Swordbreaker since enemies can have really high hit with those weapons, and Paladin and Great Knight having Lancefaire too will give a nice boost to those Combat Arts, but I just can't bring myself to appreciate it nearly as much as other classes most of the time. 7) White magic. Even on certain units with good magic like Flayn, Dorothea and Hubert, they don't get good offensive spells. White Magic Avo+ 20 is semi-useful, but given how heavy your attacks are, I more often consider it a self-imposed Challenge rather than a useful build. There's nothing they can do that weapons and Reason already do better. Seraphim is okay, and sometimes Aura and Abraxis, but definitely not what you should be using to primarily attack most enemies with, Player or their Phase. And now I wait for harassment.
bruh lances at 6th, no mention of vengeance? And axes at 5th? whut? "Magic is busted, big range" Yeah you will never kill, but hey nice range Honestly the previous weapon type tier list was way better, at least imo.
In terms of each weapon type, I would say: Swords are good as weapons but only average to awful as classes. Assassin is very good but you really need a good sword combat art to deal damage if you have low assassin strength. Swordmaster is fine but it's low movement so people favor assassin. Hero is even more shafted, unfortunately. If you don't have wind sweep (Byleth, Yuri, Dimitri, Jeritza) or another good combat art, this weapon sadly isn't worth it for the average class options available. Lances are excellent but again, the class options are lacking. Male units have no flying class that favors lance faire; they are stuck as paladin only. Female units have the broken Falcon knight, but ironically, male units prefer lances more often. Seteth, Sylvain and Ferdinand have the broken swift strikes. Vengeance is very good too. Glowing ember is great. Frozen lance is also great. But again, the classes are a bit lacking for male units who cannot access Falcon knight. Axes are the most meh weapons but have the most broken classes. Wyvern rider and wyvern Lord are so good that you forget about axes having shitty hit rates. Smash and spike are pretty good combat arts to add better accuracy and extra might on your hits. But axes would be kinda awful if it wasn't for the wyvern classes. Of course, Amyr, Freikugel and Crusher are good, but most of the axes feel lacking as a whole. Bolt axe is ok but it's also significantly worse than Levin sword. Bows are the best physical weapons in the game. Curved shot is the best early game combat art. Hunter's volley is probably the best late game combat art. Others like encloser, dead eye, heavy draw etc also make for great utility. And Leonie and Cyril get the amazing point blank volley, which is basically Hunter's volley without needing sniper class. Bow knight lacks Hunter's volley but it has great range and movement. Gauntlets are probably the second best physical weapons in terms of classes available. Brawler might be meh but grappler and war master are amazing. Gauntlets give brave weapon effects on player phase. Their only weakness is low might. But the low weight makes up for this, since you almost never get doubled on enemy phase if you have good speed. Quick riposte is broken. And fierce iron fist is great. Reason magic is obviously the best option for offensive magic. Faith magic is terrible for offense but amazing for utility. The best combination would be to have good reason spell list and a good faith utility spell list. This is why units like Hapi, Lysithea and Constance are heavily valued: a great reason spell list combined with great faith utility. Other units tend to be one or the other. Hubert has great reason offense but not faith utility. Mercedes, Linhardt and Flayn are primarily utility faith units only.
I feel like War Monk/Cleric access is doing a lot of heavy lifting for Gauntlets, and without DLC access they probably slip a couple of tiers at least.
I love this list. You actually changed my mind about lances. I would have switched lances and axes because lances have reliable hit, and have better weapons, but that is only in a vacuum that doesn't involve classes and units around it, so kudos.
I feel swords are better than white magic as weapons. Any unit built to wield the Thubderbrand will do wonders, while very few units make good use of white mag's traits.
I just wish weapons weren't so handicapped by classes and the gender locking associated with them, as an RPG guy and not a long time FE fan the classes just feel so janky and poorly thought out. - Dark Magic is amazing... but the 2 major users are female and thus can't use the Dark Mage class line which has always bothered me just in terms of it being bad game design. - Axes are... Weird... Great class choices with lots of options, but at the same time with Warmaster being gender locked and the underwhelming Combat Arts compared to other weapons I find them hard to judge. - Lances are good... if you're a female who likes flying or Dimitri post time skip, considering how many Master classes need Lance levels it's kind of bizarre that none of them are actually set up to make good use of them. - Swords are fine I guess... It bugs me that Mortal Savant is the only Master choice, but at least Assassin, Hero or Swordmaster are decent enough and give you some choice without worrying about gender. - Fists are quite fun... only if you're a male who can preferably spec into Aves - Black/White magic are also very good... if you're a female, male mages just don't feel worth using most of the time since they're locked out of all the truly powerful mage classes, the guys even got screwed by the DLC classes, just harsh. - About the only weapon type I don't have some negative (mostly class related) feelings towards is Bows, sure Sniper being generally considered superior is kind of off-putting, but it's also a genuine trade off, Bow Knight gives more range and better mobility in exchange for losing Hunters Volley giving the player freedom to choose what's more important to them.
To be fair Dark Mage is a bad class anyway so it doesn't matter too much that it is gender locked. Also I would never use Axes as a War Master since Fist weapons are so good on them, Killer Knuckles + War Master is an almost Guaranteed crit so leave the axes to Wyvern Lord.
@@pepeelghetto1231 Oh I agree, my GK Hilda was a monster for Blue Lions, but dear Lord training up two movement ranks that high is way too steep for what it’s worth. Like WL is C Lances, A Axes, and A Flying, and most master classes follow that C/A/A framework, with some of them lowering one of the A Ranks to B+. GK, however, is B+ Axes, A Armor, and B+ Riding. So not only are you made to train two movement stats, which is already way harder than weapons, but you’ve also got to train them to a higher cumulative level than you would for other master classes.
The funniest thing about the defensive tanking Great Knight class is that the two students units that can get into easiest (Ferdinand and Sylvain), are both geared toward dodge tanking (both personal battalions give avoid +20 and Ferdinand's personal gives another avoid +15).
I hate that swords have been bad in Fire Emblem for so long now. Is it more realistic that lances and axes make for better weapons? Maybe, but they're so cool and they keep making the main lord sword locked until promotion (I mean, that's not really the issue in this one particularly, Byleth can do whatever you want, but still their personal weapon is also a sword)
I’m guessing swords are just placed in the 8th position for shock effect, and to make a statement about them being underwhelmed? There can’t seriously be an argument that white attack magic is overall a better weapon type in the game than swords, right? Yes, white magic avoid is incredible, and especially amazing on Byleth. But that’s one unit, and one configuration. You’re essentially taking the best possible configuration for white attack magic and comparing it against the flaws of swords. I think that’s a bit unfair, but I get why you are doing that, to make a point. I really think swords aren’t THAT BAD, mainly because the Rapier is an awesome weapon, and anyone can use it. Killing Edge obviously great, as in most FEs. Levin sword is very useful. Sword of the Creator and Thunderbrand are very solid. And Assassin and Swordmaster are two strong Advanced sword classes, that you’re selling short. Although, yes, I’m aware you don’t like Assassin as much as most ppl haha. And yes, swords don’t have a good master class, but so what? I find that swords are really good early game part 1, especially with iron sword being able to double units. Windsweep is also pretty sick, and there are a lot of units that you can buff up sword crits on. Just because swords fall off at the end of the game doesn’t make them worse than white attack magic. I would think that a “swords only” run would be MUCH easier than “white attack magic only” run. If you’re only using the white magic attack spells. If you are also allowed to use all other healing and utility of white magic, then that would definitely be better than swords, I think.
About white magic I would add a caracteristic that is very, VERY important in maddening: a lot of spell generate a LOT of xp for free, so your spellcasters can build by themself, spamming their spells to get levels... That is somthing important to keep in mind when you have to choose what to invest in.
@@pepeelghetto1231 He said New Game +. I always start out giving all units Move +1 and Quick Riposte at the beginning of the run with mages also getting Range +1.
Ok my rank would be like: 7. White magic: Pretty trash, faith avo pretty meh in standard play. 6. Swords: Some good weapons but shitty classes and combat arts. 5. Black / Dark magic: Mostly won't kill. 4. Gauntlets: Will mostly kill. 3. Bows: Range is good, PBV great but low distribution, and hunters volley is broken but class locked. Retribution existing puts them below axes and lances imo. 2. Axes: smash is good, high stats overall, best classes, best for standard combat mostly on darting blow females but lacks OP combat arts, best for EP. Could be first even. 1. Lances: Best PP in the game thanks to Swift strikes and vengeance. Early game tempest lance is your strongest combat art, and stuff like frozen lance are pretty good and have higher distribution than lightning axe for example (9+ units will make use of either Swift strikes, vengeance or Frozen lance). On top of that however, you will also be using them on EP due to dimitri, dedue and bernadetta having potent EP/ dual phase builds with bat. Wrath and lances.
Mostly I agree but I see no reason to split up Black and Dark Magic up instead of just saying reason, in most instances the game doesn't differentiate. I also think that not factoring in Faiths utility kind of makes this list not very useful.
I think Gauntlets being higher than Lances/Axes doesn't really make sense. Lances/Axes lead to Falcon/Wyvern, which have Canto, Flying, 8 move, can run secondary weapons to weapon triangle, or bows. Curved Shot on 8 move with canto Flyer is pretty absurd, considering you listed Bows as #1, a flyer being able to be in the right place when needed and chip/kill/finish is way better than a dude running on the ground punching things. Stride + 5 flyers or more is hilariously broken for attacking enemy positions. Mostly because they can all canto to safety and you can do it again. Flyers can fly out kill something and be rescued easily, making rescue+flyer insanely broken. For LTC, I'd imagine flyers are more optimal/faster, I could be wrong I don't do LTC. Sword is dumped on a lot in this game but I disagree it is bad. Thunderbrand is insane, WoDao+ is insane, sword of the creator is very good, brave sword. Swords are innately accurate, they have some of the highest accuracy. This is overlooked because damage is cool, but you can build a falconknight with sword avoid and it's pretty broken. 10-30% hitrate from enemies at full HP on Petra is pretty OP, I've used this in a few playthroughs to great effect. Magic without Thrysus is good but not super hard carry. Arguably without the broken artifacts and DLC Valkyrie magic is just decent, not even top. As for bows being #1, it depends on playstyle. If I stride in 5 flyers and they kill 5 enemies then catch a fortify, the result is similar to just killing them out of their effective range. Arguably flyers and melee weapons will out damage and out maneuver 5 snipers, so this is more of a preference thing. I look at bows as a utility tool for chip/cleanup/armor break. In a lot of cases Wyvernlords/Falconknights can just 1 shot with a combat art, which is the same effect as killing a foe without it being able to counterattack. I think maddening overall is too easy and there are too many OP strategies. Similar to Triangle Strategy, endgame things get nutty thanks to min/maxing and loadouts.
@Sylvain Jose Gautier 1. I didn't say they should just use bows. I am saying they CAN use bows and have effectively 11 reach with their move + curved shot. 2. Axes and Lances aren't used in a vacuum. They are used on units that are specific classes. 3. Brave weapons are readily available after timeskip from the store. Brave weapons negate biggest upside of gauntlets. Also speed, Falconknights with darting blow will more reliably double at base. 4. Even with Thyrsus magic often won't 1 round unless its a specific unit and specific spell like Lysithea. 5. I disagree, when I run falconknights, they quad enemies reliably, very rarely not 4xing them, this is more damage than hunters volley. Brave Sword/Lance on Falconknight is pretty absurd. Counterattack doesn't matter unless its lethal or crit chance, blessing, healers, fortify, etc. Sniper has poor mobility and can't attack as effectively as a flier.
The one thing I would change is Swords and White Magic. Since you are not counting utility spells, any one unit gets heavy Nosferatu and _maybe_ one other attacking spell. Lysithea is the only exception having three spells, one being Nosferatu.
Idk if white magic is almost last if it wasn't for bylass using nosforatu and dodge tanking maddening would be lost impossible for me also the spell that's strong vs monsters is more useful then dark spikes imo way more monsters in most routes then scary calvary
@@AdamWithFED Once again like your canon class no joke. What is your allegiance The Adrestian Empire The Holy Kingdom Of Faerghus Leicester Alliance As a man of the Alliance I will not judge your choice unlike Ghast who betrayed the Kingdom in cold blood for the Empire. I thought that man was a Kingdom loyalist but it seems not.
3 snipers got me through Silver Snow endgame on my first run with my poorly built army lol, definitely incredibly good Hunter’s Volley honestly makes me sad about how they handled Astra since it’s such a bad combat art. They made HV and Fierce Iron Fist as op as they are and then made Astra just plain awful. And then swords don’t really have standout endgame options, people will say to just send your sword user to Wyvern Lord and they’re probably right. Mortal Savant seems meant for Constance/Dorothea/Marianne to use their magic sword arts rather than for say Felix or Catherine to naturally advance their sword fighting ability.
![[TH] FS vs BME - VCT Ascension Pacific - Lower Bracket Final](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/wnygqsR2Fig/mqdefault.jpg)
i cant click to the end of the video to see your rankings and disagree without hearing your reasonings and supportive evidence. i feel powerless.
I think I would actually bump Lances up a rank. Of the 3 people with Swift Strikes, two also have a Crest which has a chance to negate counter attacks on EACH hit. There are also 4 people who get Frozen Lance, which can be reliably devastating in the right hands. Vengeance is abusably good as well. Throw in the fact that Lance skill is required for virtually every mounted class and it's not like it's an investment people are having to go out of their way for.
Ok but negating a counter doesnt matter when you just kill and most lance classes have an awful movement type, being grounded mount, so effectivly either loose 10 damage or have to deal with being alergic to any type of terrain
@@sadagusfate Leaving aside the fact that Pegasus and Falcon Knight are both Lance classes, I have to say that thinking a ground mounted class has horrible movement is a hot take to say the least. Just dismount in bad terrain and you have the same movement as everyone else on foot. You do you though.
@@jamesoakes4842 pegasus don't get a lancefair so it's just falcos, which is a master class which in general are just way more effort then they're worth and is genderlocked so isn't a particularly amazing class in the context of a run, but is why i said most, and no dismounting doesn't help much as now your still just left with a bad movement type of regular grounded
@@sadagusfate But mounted classes are still better than normal foot soldiers for movement. If you're that hung up on being affected by terrain... I think you've just discovered why the Fire Emblem community is so in love with Warp.
@@jamesoakes4842 yeah and warp isn't by itself enough in 3h, you typically want flying movement or the free grounded movement of grapplers or assassins, or having stupid high range CA to just skip a bunch of movement, 3h gives you a ton of movement boosts to where horses having a natural +3 is fairly negligible and is often overkill, but has a tendency to be so terrain heavy that the extra penalties can be debilitating, it's still better then normal grounded, but it's not good in the context of 3h where you're just wanting to clear basically all maps in a single turn of action
Mortal savant in 3 Hopes feels like KT saying we’re sorry for 3 Houses mortal savant.
Great Video Adam! One thing you forgot to mention about Dark Magic is Luna which is primarily associated with Lysithea but it gives her an edge over the rest of mages bc it lets her kill other mages. Another thing is that although Dark Magic 2x until gremory, they tend to have more uses in general. By level 5, Hubert will have 8 Mires while Dorothea will have 4 Thorons until Warlock
Video idea: hardest map in every fire emblem game
Good list. Only real edit is I would switch Swords and White Magic. Swords unlock the best enemy phase sweeper units in the game. Even Nostanking would benefit a tremendous amount from Vantage support. Additionally, you get a number of pretty neat swords through your run (with the bests being the Killer variants and Thunderbrand) that make crit builds a lot easier to put together.
I mean you never have to use a sword to get vantage given its such a low rank requirment, the best enemy phase sweepers are dimitri and fortress knights taking 0 anyway, as well as just generally ep units having less uses given its a very player phase game of boss killing
@@sadagusfate Sure, but none of those points are a reason why White magic is a better offensive weapon than swords. I will push back and say that while Dimitri is an excellent EP sweeper, any unit with Vantage can make it work.
Swords are the most natural line for EP sweeping , avoid builds and some crit builds. You can do them on other weapon types but with more opportunity cost. White magic doesn't really offer anything unique except for nosferatu which benefits from the unit dipping into swords for vantage anyway.
@@atlas9162 no i agree white magic is worse but i think your argument is silly, swords have a brave variant, have effective damage options, and have crit options with good hit for if you need to divine pulse rig a kill, white magic has uh, the potential to maybe 2hko an enemy sometimes? And has like 1 good class that can use it, being the female only dlc locked dark flier
Tho i do want to note if your going for dodge builds you use gauntlets and if your going for kill in 1 hit you use axes with vantage wrath, swords are just the budget options of both
I remember when the game was newer people talking about gauntlets being “broken” but then that going away as the “meta”(?) moved towards swift strikes/HV/PBV. No real point to make, just something kinda interesting (to me) that I remember. 🤷🏻♀️
Just brave attacks in general probably
I agree that swords are generally bad because of the bad classes they have, as well as having no ranged weapons besides Levin Sword. But I have been giving my assassin Byleth a rapier since the very beginning and it’s such a broken weapon, being effective towards heavy armor and riding classes. And since she’s an assassin, bows will cover the flying classes. If you buy the DLC, I believe you get 3 more Rapiers, which I give to all other sword users on my team (i always have 2 assassins generally because i love them). My conclusion is that swords in general suck, but the best ones are really damn good.
I love hard mode because my White Magic Avoid Nosferatu Dodge Tank Dorothea was the MVP of Crimson Flower’s final map, it’s so fun! Now I’m using that build on Byleth too, though with Quick Riposte I think Byleth might be better. I didn’t think Dorothea would be worth it since she only has Nosferatu, but Gremory and Bishop giving 24 uses of Nosferatu is so fun lol
*Gremory and Bishop
Wow, I would not have thought Dorothea with only 24 use Nos would be MVP. I may have to try that now 🤔
@@CAPAE ooos lol you’re right, it was really fun! I give Gremory Dorothea and Byleth the shoes of the wind item for +1 movement so they can get into position easier
It was such a fun build, though it’s more of a late game thing / a new game plus thing if you wanna start utilizing the build early
My abilities are Faith Prowess Lvl 5, White Magic Avoid +20, White Tomefaire, Alert Stance+, and… i don’t remember the 5th one all of a sudden… well Quick Riposte for Byleth will be good, and for Dorothea I might have just slapped Magic +2 on her?
@@joeyjose727 Yeah, that sounds like the exact same list I would make on new game + lol
This game came out years ago and these stupid tier lists are still addicting! Can't get enough. Keep it up.
I really wished that there were more 1-2 ranged swords, besides the Levin and Viskam, there are no ranged swords. There should of been daggers in this game
Or even just a Throwing Knife/Short Sword/Wakizashi series of weapons to mirror Javelins and Hand Axes. And bring back the Shockstick.
Should HAVE
@@nategwright But make it 1-2 range
I think magic in general is better than bow because of 2 main reasons… 1) weapons breaking is annoying.. 2) there are too many armored enemy units making bow useless compared to magic.
Maybe I am doing somethin wrong? Lol
Who's idea was it that bows are able to 1 range counter in this game ???
You should do bows only playthrough next
Easy mode, but still fun to see 👌 I agree
Gremory with Bolt Axe is the most fun build for me.
I think swords are fine as weapons. Early game maddening they are light enough to not get some units doubled but accurate enough to not miss. They just lack end game options outside of crit builds.
Dodgetank builds?
I think the biggest points towards white magic are seraphim and white magic avoid but definitely still not enough to bump it higher.
Lances should beat out axes Imo but otherwise yeah.
Axes: kill things
Lances: doesnt kill things
I mean theyre good early game but by time you get to level 20 which is like 2/5 of the way through, axes just become oppressivly busted cause brave axe wyvern go brrr
@@sadagusfate Alternatively lances have a lot more good combat arts, and effective lances are usually more valuable than effective axes since the latter can be replaced by magic weapons or spells with total ease.
@@wolftamerwolfcorp7465 brave axes ohko in 0% growths all the way through endgame, they simply don't need combat arts in 99% of scenarios, lances do have an amazing early game, but their early combat arts stop really mattering much after chapter 6 cause by then your ohkoing without them anyway, and late game it's only 5 units with consistent ohko lance combat arts (3 swift strikes and dedue/cyril vengance) meanwhile brave axes are just universal
As for effectiveness, maces exist and serve for easy one rounds on armoured enemies becuse they get doubled, and are the only unit type that would take more then 2 brave axe hits from a 0% growths wyvern
@@sadagusfate Just gotta check what difficulty we’re talking, because maces absolutely do not one round armors on any difficulty where weapon differences matter, axe of urkansova from some units, sure; but then we get into the discussion of if it’s worth your mythril over something like the spear of assal.
That aside, brave axes are definitely really good but that alone isn’t enough to call axes better weapons than lances.
Your vengeance user list lacks Bernadetta who might not necessarily be as optimal of a vengeance user as the other two but can still ohko with it.
@@wolftamerwolfcorp7465 I purposely excluded bernadetta cause come late game her vengance kill rate is kinda shaky and enemy dependant or simply requires a ton of recources, and difficulty wise I'm talking maddening cause normal and easy you can just easily solo with training weapons
And yeah maces do easily one round armours, like brave axes do with characters with decent strengh growth, maces are just that but with more power to compensate worse growths
I love your content, but every single time you make a list, I don't agree with most of what you say. This list is no exception.
Same lol
Before i watch i want to guess fists is s tier
NOPE
I feel like axes should be in first. They are a great utlilitary weapon. They deal alot of damage
The problem with axes is that they are risky early game maddening. Before you can get stuff like hit +20 or axefaire you'll be having sub 80% (if not worse) hit rates and that's too unreliable. Combat arts help mitigate this player phase, but not enemy phase. Axes become really good in the mid game though. I think to accurately judge a weapon type, you have to consider the whole journey and not just the end product.
@@phoenixgemini42 i mainly play hard have no intent on madening yet
@@lunialation666 in that case, axes probably are the best.
Ranking a weapon with no enemy phase at number one is absolutely psychotic
@Sylvain Jose Gautier literally what are you talking about lol. That's a bold attempt to gaslight me
At C rank in bows every unit gets close counter. C can realistically be achieved in just a couple of chapters. For most of the game, bows do in fact have 1 range on enemy phase.
@@yungthunder2681 *Ok, I'm waiting for the punchline*
Gambit: Hold my beer
Bow only VW run when?
Why do you play as a girl?
Gauntlets are incredible, with Death blow and stacked Fistfaires, that’s +32 damage guaranteed on player phase, +64 if you quad. And because they’re so light you have a better chance of quadding than any other weapon.
You lose MT due to the lowered base damage. Deathblow + Faire and quad is not exclusive to gauntlets. Falcon Knights with Spears/Swords can quad with brave sword/spear fairly consistently. I think gauntlets are overhyped TBH.
@@IcedCoffeeGaming that is true that Brave weapons are good too but remember that Guantlets are very easily replaced when they run out of durability and are pretty easy to forge. brave weapons are uncommon and pretty expensive to repair with a rare black smith material but if you have Brave weapons they are amazing
@@SleepyBrady True on the repairing, I find that I can usually double with silver lance + on falcon knights to one round kill or use the brave as needed kind of situation.
@@IcedCoffeeGaming Then you have killer knuckles on War Masters that are basically a guaranteed crit which makes up for less might.
If anyone else was confused like me here are the spells for Black & Dark Magic
Black: Fire, Bolganone, Thunder, Thoron, Wind, Cutting Gale, Excalibur, etc.
Dark: Mire, Miasma, Banshee, Death, Dark Spikes, etc. (basically any spell that is followed by a Greek Letter)
Dark magic: hades, swarm
Black magic: blizzard, ragnarok, fimbulvetr and freaking bolting and meteor (how could you forget those)
@@dennisleonardo2992 It's easy to forget Bolting because the only unit that has good magic and can access it easily is DLC only
@@dennisleonardo2992 lol that’s what etc. is for
Loved using Hunters Volley
My Cyril was unstoppable with it especially when used with killer bows.
Cyril doesn't need hunter's volley as he already gets point blank volley, which means he can go a high move class like bow knight or wyvern lord while keeping the insane kill potential of point hunters volley
Swords have a few special variations that other weapons don't. Two major ones being Rapier+ and the Thunderbrand. These swords are so powerful that the lack of really good combat arts doesn't affect them too much. Imo there's no way they deserve the last place by the sheer force of these kinds of special swords.
Lances are surprisingly low but I admit that if you don't have either Swift Strikes, Frozen Lance or Vengeance they fall off very hard. There's a good amount of relics and the Spear of Assal that helps a bit but I wouldn't bother unless you have a combat art or you're Dimitri.
I'm not the biggest fan of axes in 3H but I'll 100% concede that Smash ages a lot better than every basic combat art minus Curved Shot.
A thing Black Magic has over Dark Magic is also the siege tomes but I agree with the placement.
Bows being 1st is well deserved.
Early on Tempest lance is amazing so that is another option.
Yeah, I don't like lances all that much either
Indeed. Last place should rightfully belong to axes or white magic (if we are excluding their utility magic, and only focusing on their attack magic.)
I always have uses for swords, as they are among the lightest weapons, specially for mounted units which can't use gauntlets.
@@DiogoJ1 Yeah Faith is by far the worst if we stick the offensive ones. Personally my pick for weakest weapon nowadays would go to gauntlets because as nice as a Brave effect is I find them too limited in usage and they essentially lock you out of Canto unless you use the fetters.
If I can see a specific benchmark that requires their low weight I won't be shy about using them but they've been very situational in my runs lately. I rarely have dedicated brawler.
I don't care if I get hate because of this opinion, but here is my list:
1) Gauntlets. They're the most fun and rewarding to use imo. The classes dedicated to them are very good. Their lightweight combined with Prowess lvl 5 giving Avoid +20, combined with Brawl Avo +20 makes them among the best at Avoid builds, so there are still multiple good reasons to use them on Enemy Phase. They also have good hit and high durability. Training ones have a whopping 90 hits. Fading Blow and Rushing Blow have their usefulness, especially early game where you won't be dealing that much damage, even with 2-4 hits per round of combat. Fierce Iron Fist rocks, and Pneuma Gale, a magical strike with 1-2 range you can give to anyone also has its moments. Nimble Combo and Bombard are decent, One-Two Punch is all right, and I really wish Raphael wasn't the only unit with Monster Crusher, which still has a big damage boost on regular enemies. Mighty Blow however sucks, don't bother with it. The Aura Knuckles like you said have the power to be the best Player Phase Magic Attacks, Killer Knuckles can be extremely strong, and in a game without Wyrmslayers and Combat Arts only available on Weapons that have low durability and can't be repaired easily, Dragon Claws are especially valuable for fighting Dragons.
2) Swords. Nearly every argument against it boils down to: "Low Mt, therefore bad." They're still light, have high durability, hit, and Prowess lvl 5 gives 20 Avoid. Swordmaster, a class that gets more hate than it deserves, is still good, especially with Sword Crit+10. There are several good weapons, like the Wo Dao, Rapier, Sublime Creator Sword, Thunderbrand, and more. Windsweep and Soulblade are pretty good Combat Arts. They're not complete garbage and I will die on this hill. NO ONE will tell me otherwise. Astra and Assassinate however are useless, and they're not worth mastering their respective classes though, I'll give people that.
3) Bows. Big range, Classes have high Dexterity, Hunter's Volley can one-shot most non-durable enemies up to 4 spaces away, and has several other good Combat Arts like Curved/Waning/Break Shot, Encloser, and I've gotten some decent mileage out of Deadeye. I do wish there was one that scaled off of one of your other stats for a big damage strike like the other weapons have though.
4. Axes. I can sometimes swap this with Bows. They're Powerful, have high durability, and all of their dedicated classes are pretty good, and even have some of the best class masteries in the game. They are held back by having lower hit, high Wt, and Prowess lvl 5 only gives +10 Avoid, meaning they aren't as reliable at dodgetanking. Though in a way it makes them more creative and interesting to use than other weapons. Smash can make up for their low hit, most units with Armored Strike have high defense, so that will deal a lot of damage, and Monster Piercer still gives +9 Mt on its own. I barely use Wild Abandon and Diamond Axe for obvious reasons, but they have amazing potential. Exhaustive Strike is just funny, even if it's really gimmicky, but it's still not the worst one in the game imo. I don't think the Armored Classes are bad either. Low movement? Big deal, that's what Stride and A+ riding are for, especially since the latter is required for Great Knight, as well as several other things. I'm sick of people acting like low Movement makes a class unplayable.
5) Reason Magic. I can also swap it out with Bows and Axes sometimes, because of its usefulness in certain areas. It does have its fair share of problems though. The biggest one? Aside from Reason Prowess, why does the game treat Black and Dark Magic as 2 different spell types? Warlock and Dark Flier only have Black Tomefaire and Black Magic uses×2, meaning it's near useless on Hubert, Lysithea and Hapi, Gremory and Valkyrie need both spell types to take up ability slots, and because of the 3 aforementioned units spell lists, they can't participate in Black Magic Battle Tournaments at the Monastery unless you reclass them into Mages which has the Fire spell. Edelgard has both Black and Dark Magic spells, but her budding talent only applies to the former and S/S+ abilities to the latter. Who honestly thought this was a good idea? To keep this shorter, I'll just say that I pretty much agree with all the other positives and negatives people have with this class. Thyrsus isn't the only range increasing staff in the game though, and even if the other one only gives +1 instead of +2, that does not make it bad or useless in any way, and it comes from the easiest Paralogue in the game. I also like Uncanny Blow.
6) Lances. I just don't enjoy using this weapon that much compared to the others and to an extent Reason magic. Average Mt, Average Hit, Average Wt, and low durability. They don't excel in anything. Sure, there are a few really good ones like Areadbar, Luin, the Lance of Ruin, Gradivus and the Spear of Assal, and it has some excellent Combat Arts like Tempest Lance, Glowing Ember, Lance Jab, Swift Strikes, and Vengeance, which is one of the best in the whole game, but they've just always felt really unsatisfying to me. One reason is that there aren't any good Crit builds that emphasize using them. There's no equivalent of Swordmaster, Warrior, War Master, or even Grappler and Sniper which their exclusive Combat Arts have boosted Crit. Pegasus Knights, which for some reason only have 6 movement while enemies have 7 and Lancefaire, may have Triangle Attack, but that's Female only aside from NG+ Byleth, and can be used with any weapon. There are a few good moments with them, like Falcon Knight Avoid Tanks, especially with Swordbreaker since enemies can have really high hit with those weapons, and Paladin and Great Knight having Lancefaire too will give a nice boost to those Combat Arts, but I just can't bring myself to appreciate it nearly as much as other classes most of the time.
7) White magic. Even on certain units with good magic like Flayn, Dorothea and Hubert, they don't get good offensive spells. White Magic Avo+ 20 is semi-useful, but given how heavy your attacks are, I more often consider it a self-imposed Challenge rather than a useful build. There's nothing they can do that weapons and Reason already do better. Seraphim is okay, and sometimes Aura and Abraxis, but definitely not what you should be using to primarily attack most enemies with, Player or their Phase.
And now I wait for harassment.
Good list
Even Astra is pretty good in some builds, Astra + Blutgang can pretty much one shot everything including maddening Nemesis.
@@TheRealIronMan That's what Aura Gauntlets are for.
Better list than the video. Very good one!
bruh lances at 6th, no mention of vengeance? And axes at 5th? whut?
"Magic is busted, big range" Yeah you will never kill, but hey nice range
Honestly the previous weapon type tier list was way better, at least imo.
D:
@@AdamWithFED I like your vids tho:c
:D
Hard agree on both opinions here. ❤
Stop parroting this "hurr magic doesn't kill" shit, you'd have to have the worst growth luck on the planet for your mages not to one-shot.
In terms of each weapon type, I would say:
Swords are good as weapons but only average to awful as classes. Assassin is very good but you really need a good sword combat art to deal damage if you have low assassin strength. Swordmaster is fine but it's low movement so people favor assassin. Hero is even more shafted, unfortunately. If you don't have wind sweep (Byleth, Yuri, Dimitri, Jeritza) or another good combat art, this weapon sadly isn't worth it for the average class options available.
Lances are excellent but again, the class options are lacking. Male units have no flying class that favors lance faire; they are stuck as paladin only. Female units have the broken Falcon knight, but ironically, male units prefer lances more often. Seteth, Sylvain and Ferdinand have the broken swift strikes. Vengeance is very good too. Glowing ember is great. Frozen lance is also great. But again, the classes are a bit lacking for male units who cannot access Falcon knight.
Axes are the most meh weapons but have the most broken classes. Wyvern rider and wyvern Lord are so good that you forget about axes having shitty hit rates. Smash and spike are pretty good combat arts to add better accuracy and extra might on your hits. But axes would be kinda awful if it wasn't for the wyvern classes. Of course, Amyr, Freikugel and Crusher are good, but most of the axes feel lacking as a whole. Bolt axe is ok but it's also significantly worse than Levin sword.
Bows are the best physical weapons in the game. Curved shot is the best early game combat art. Hunter's volley is probably the best late game combat art. Others like encloser, dead eye, heavy draw etc also make for great utility. And Leonie and Cyril get the amazing point blank volley, which is basically Hunter's volley without needing sniper class. Bow knight lacks Hunter's volley but it has great range and movement.
Gauntlets are probably the second best physical weapons in terms of classes available. Brawler might be meh but grappler and war master are amazing. Gauntlets give brave weapon effects on player phase. Their only weakness is low might. But the low weight makes up for this, since you almost never get doubled on enemy phase if you have good speed. Quick riposte is broken. And fierce iron fist is great.
Reason magic is obviously the best option for offensive magic. Faith magic is terrible for offense but amazing for utility. The best combination would be to have good reason spell list and a good faith utility spell list. This is why units like Hapi, Lysithea and Constance are heavily valued: a great reason spell list combined with great faith utility. Other units tend to be one or the other. Hubert has great reason offense but not faith utility. Mercedes, Linhardt and Flayn are primarily utility faith units only.
A point about Axes: Axe Prowess gives you Hit +20, whereas Sword Prowess only grants Hit +10, which closes the accuracy gap by quite a bit.
Wo Dao, Rapier and Thunderbrand: allow us to introduce ourselves
I feel like War Monk/Cleric access is doing a lot of heavy lifting for Gauntlets, and without DLC access they probably slip a couple of tiers at least.
Pre-watch prediction: Bows are top tier and white magic is bottom tier.
Almost, although that would have been the one change I would have made: swords _just_ ahead of white magic by hairs.
I love this list. You actually changed my mind about lances. I would have switched lances and axes because lances have reliable hit, and have better weapons, but that is only in a vacuum that doesn't involve classes and units around it, so kudos.
Also to note theres just a ton of accuracy boosting options so having iffy hit isnt much of a detriment, espescilly given divine pulse
I feel swords are better than white magic as weapons. Any unit built to wield the Thubderbrand will do wonders, while very few units make good use of white mag's traits.
And not every unit with good magic will have a good White spell list.
I just wish weapons weren't so handicapped by classes and the gender locking associated with them, as an RPG guy and not a long time FE fan the classes just feel so janky and poorly thought out.
- Dark Magic is amazing... but the 2 major users are female and thus can't use the Dark Mage class line which has always bothered me just in terms of it being bad game design.
- Axes are... Weird... Great class choices with lots of options, but at the same time with Warmaster being gender locked and the underwhelming Combat Arts compared to other weapons I find them hard to judge.
- Lances are good... if you're a female who likes flying or Dimitri post time skip, considering how many Master classes need Lance levels it's kind of bizarre that none of them are actually set up to make good use of them.
- Swords are fine I guess... It bugs me that Mortal Savant is the only Master choice, but at least Assassin, Hero or Swordmaster are decent enough and give you some choice without worrying about gender.
- Fists are quite fun... only if you're a male who can preferably spec into Aves
- Black/White magic are also very good... if you're a female, male mages just don't feel worth using most of the time since they're locked out of all the truly powerful mage classes, the guys even got screwed by the DLC classes, just harsh.
- About the only weapon type I don't have some negative (mostly class related) feelings towards is Bows, sure Sniper being generally considered superior is kind of off-putting, but it's also a genuine trade off, Bow Knight gives more range and better mobility in exchange for losing Hunters Volley giving the player freedom to choose what's more important to them.
To be fair Dark Mage is a bad class anyway so it doesn't matter too much that it is gender locked. Also I would never use Axes as a War Master since Fist weapons are so good on them, Killer Knuckles + War Master is an almost Guaranteed crit so leave the axes to Wyvern Lord.
Also vengeance for lances.
Kinda wish bow knight also had lancefaire
Kinda wish more than two (and a half) classes had Lancefaire, and that we actually got a decent Sword master class.
@@nategwright Great Knight is actually really good outside of requirements
@@pepeelghetto1231 Oh I agree, my GK Hilda was a monster for Blue Lions, but dear Lord training up two movement ranks that high is way too steep for what it’s worth. Like WL is C Lances, A Axes, and A Flying, and most master classes follow that C/A/A framework, with some of them lowering one of the A Ranks to B+. GK, however, is B+ Axes, A Armor, and B+ Riding. So not only are you made to train two movement stats, which is already way harder than weapons, but you’ve also got to train them to a higher cumulative level than you would for other master classes.
The funniest thing about the defensive tanking Great Knight class is that the two students units that can get into easiest (Ferdinand and Sylvain), are both geared toward dodge tanking (both personal battalions give avoid +20 and Ferdinand's personal gives another avoid +15).
@@nategwright assassin is the post modern evolution of the swordmaster
I hate that swords have been bad in Fire Emblem for so long now. Is it more realistic that lances and axes make for better weapons? Maybe, but they're so cool and they keep making the main lord sword locked until promotion (I mean, that's not really the issue in this one particularly, Byleth can do whatever you want, but still their personal weapon is also a sword)
I love how far bows have come since the GBA days
np they adressed that in engage and it's the worst weapon there :P
I’m guessing swords are just placed in the 8th position for shock effect, and to make a statement about them being underwhelmed? There can’t seriously be an argument that white attack magic is overall a better weapon type in the game than swords, right? Yes, white magic avoid is incredible, and especially amazing on Byleth. But that’s one unit, and one configuration. You’re essentially taking the best possible configuration for white attack magic and comparing it against the flaws of swords. I think that’s a bit unfair, but I get why you are doing that, to make a point.
I really think swords aren’t THAT BAD, mainly because the Rapier is an awesome weapon, and anyone can use it. Killing Edge obviously great, as in most FEs. Levin sword is very useful. Sword of the Creator and Thunderbrand are very solid. And Assassin and Swordmaster are two strong Advanced sword classes, that you’re selling short. Although, yes, I’m aware you don’t like Assassin as much as most ppl haha. And yes, swords don’t have a good master class, but so what? I find that swords are really good early game part 1, especially with iron sword being able to double units. Windsweep is also pretty sick, and there are a lot of units that you can buff up sword crits on. Just because swords fall off at the end of the game doesn’t make them worse than white attack magic.
I would think that a “swords only” run would be MUCH easier than “white attack magic only” run. If you’re only using the white magic attack spells. If you are also allowed to use all other healing and utility of white magic, then that would definitely be better than swords, I think.
loved the Agniratha night theme playing. Xenoblade hype!
There is no way swords are the worst with that high hit rate and so many superb weapons like Rapier and Thunderbird
Magic is always the way to go especially to get that Hogwarts vibe
In what universe is Hero the best sword class?
About white magic I would add a caracteristic that is very, VERY important in maddening: a lot of spell generate a LOT of xp for free, so your spellcasters can build by themself, spamming their spells to get levels... That is somthing important to keep in mind when you have to choose what to invest in.
This will be useful in my 30 so playthroughs for freaking Dancer classes
_On playthrough 21:_
Snipers and Magicians are all you need 👌
@@CAPAE No. You lack movement, and mages have low kill power.
@@pepeelghetto1231 He said New Game +. I always start out giving all units Move +1 and Quick Riposte at the beginning of the run with mages also getting Range +1.
@@pepeelghetto1231 and early game archers getting you down? By longbows for early game at Pagan Altar.
@@CAPAE uh who said NG+?
One simultaneously disappointing and hilarious fact about Three Hopes is that female units can only use gauntlets as a Fighter.
No War Cleric class?
Ok my rank would be like:
7. White magic: Pretty trash, faith avo pretty meh in standard play.
6. Swords: Some good weapons but shitty classes and combat arts.
5. Black / Dark magic: Mostly won't kill.
4. Gauntlets: Will mostly kill.
3. Bows: Range is good, PBV great but low distribution, and hunters volley is broken but class locked. Retribution existing puts them below axes and lances imo.
2. Axes: smash is good, high stats overall, best classes, best for standard combat mostly on darting blow females but lacks OP combat arts, best for EP. Could be first even.
1. Lances: Best PP in the game thanks to Swift strikes and vengeance. Early game tempest lance is your strongest combat art, and stuff like frozen lance are pretty good and have higher distribution than lightning axe for example (9+ units will make use of either Swift strikes, vengeance or Frozen lance). On top of that however, you will also be using them on EP due to dimitri, dedue and bernadetta having potent EP/ dual phase builds with bat. Wrath and lances.
Mostly I agree but I see no reason to split up Black and Dark Magic up instead of just saying reason, in most instances the game doesn't differentiate. I also think that not factoring in Faiths utility kind of makes this list not very useful.
I think Gauntlets being higher than Lances/Axes doesn't really make sense. Lances/Axes lead to Falcon/Wyvern, which have Canto, Flying, 8 move, can run secondary weapons to weapon triangle, or bows. Curved Shot on 8 move with canto Flyer is pretty absurd, considering you listed Bows as #1, a flyer being able to be in the right place when needed and chip/kill/finish is way better
than a dude running on the ground punching things.
Stride + 5 flyers or more is hilariously broken for attacking enemy positions. Mostly because they can all canto to safety and you can do it again. Flyers can fly out kill something and be rescued easily, making rescue+flyer insanely broken. For LTC, I'd imagine flyers are more optimal/faster, I could be wrong I don't do LTC.
Sword is dumped on a lot in this game but I disagree it is bad. Thunderbrand is insane, WoDao+ is insane, sword of the creator is very good, brave sword. Swords are innately accurate, they have some of the highest accuracy. This is overlooked because damage is cool, but you can build a falconknight with sword avoid and it's pretty broken. 10-30% hitrate from enemies at full HP on Petra is pretty OP, I've used this in a few playthroughs to great effect.
Magic without Thrysus is good but not super hard carry. Arguably without the broken artifacts and DLC Valkyrie magic is just decent, not even top.
As for bows being #1, it depends on playstyle. If I stride in 5 flyers and they kill 5 enemies then catch a fortify, the result is similar to just killing them out of their effective range.
Arguably flyers and melee weapons will out damage and out maneuver 5 snipers, so this is more of a preference thing. I look at bows as a utility tool for chip/cleanup/armor break.
In a lot of cases Wyvernlords/Falconknights can just 1 shot with a combat art, which is the same effect as killing a foe without it being able to counterattack.
I think maddening overall is too easy and there are too many OP strategies. Similar to Triangle Strategy, endgame things get nutty thanks to min/maxing and loadouts.
@Sylvain Jose Gautier
1. I didn't say they should just use bows. I am saying they CAN use bows and have effectively 11 reach with their move + curved shot.
2. Axes and Lances aren't used in a vacuum. They are used on units that are specific classes.
3. Brave weapons are readily available after timeskip from the store. Brave weapons negate biggest upside of gauntlets. Also speed, Falconknights with darting blow will more reliably double at base.
4. Even with Thyrsus magic often won't 1 round unless its a specific unit and specific spell like Lysithea.
5. I disagree, when I run falconknights, they quad enemies reliably, very rarely not 4xing them, this is more damage than hunters volley. Brave Sword/Lance on Falconknight is pretty absurd. Counterattack doesn't matter unless its lethal or crit chance, blessing, healers, fortify, etc. Sniper has poor mobility and can't attack as effectively as a flier.
The only problem with HV, is it's locked to the Sniper class.
Bernie with a killer bow, ~70%, best unit I have
Wooow that's that's what I'm talking about .. you're the best !
The one thing I would change is Swords and White Magic. Since you are not counting utility spells, any one unit gets heavy Nosferatu and _maybe_ one other attacking spell. Lysithea is the only exception having three spells, one being Nosferatu.
All of those better attacking spells have very few uses. Nosferatu would have the most, and even that has less uses than a Wo Dao+.
@@CAPAE Which you can make multiples of and give them to any unit
Idk if white magic is almost last if it wasn't for bylass using nosforatu and dodge tanking maddening would be lost impossible for me also the spell that's strong vs monsters is more useful then dark spikes imo way more monsters in most routes then scary calvary
*SQUIRM FOR ME!*
highly agree, some monster encounters are just nuts, I sometimes rather face 20 riders than a single strong monster
FED what allegiance are you
The Adrestian Empire
The Holy Kingdom Of Faerghus
The Leicester Alliance
I choose...
TO SMASH
@@AdamWithFED Once again like your canon class no joke.
What is your allegiance
The Adrestian Empire
The Holy Kingdom Of Faerghus
Leicester Alliance
As a man of the Alliance I will not judge your choice unlike Ghast who betrayed the Kingdom in cold blood for the Empire.
I thought that man was a Kingdom loyalist but it seems not.
Blue lions are my favorite group!
Swords have viskam tho
3 snipers got me through Silver Snow endgame on my first run with my poorly built army lol, definitely incredibly good
Hunter’s Volley honestly makes me sad about how they handled Astra since it’s such a bad combat art. They made HV and Fierce Iron Fist as op as they are and then made Astra just plain awful. And then swords don’t really have standout endgame options, people will say to just send your sword user to Wyvern Lord and they’re probably right.
Mortal Savant seems meant for Constance/Dorothea/Marianne to use their magic sword arts rather than for say Felix or Catherine to naturally advance their sword fighting ability.