I love what's starting to happen on YT with all of these serious discussions about dev. Love seeing different perspectives, because we all learn from it. Fucking banger content, thank you.
Sounds like a real backend developer busted some myths. However I think for us that use NextJS heavily we’re not full fledged backend devs. We’re mostly front end, need reliance on server side rendering of react components while needing a few backend API calls.
This, is FANTASTIC. That model of web project structure is spot on and so versatile, and you seem so sincere/authentic/honest with all your statements. So satisfying to watch
Not sure why you would need to constraint yourself to nextjs in this case for backend if it's limiting your project. Just create the Frontend in nextjs and use what ever you want as backend (rails, nest, python, java, c#) it doens't matter for example: there are a lot of AI tools in python why would you need to force it in JS (nextjs), use flask or any other BE available and consume that service from the FE.
To learn one thing best not few things worse than best. Why can't we have one thing good at everything or two things perfectly aligning with each other with a similar way of coding & thinking about code?
@@ebrelus7687Because it's impossible. Each language and ecosystem has it's strengths and weaknesses. If the project has a usecase that some language/ecosystem would fit very well, it doesn't make sense to reinvent the wheel, because 1. you and your team will probably not solve the problem as well as the libraries that inspired you 2. you can't afford the time investment 3. Even if you aim to use some 3rd party library, very often that library is not as well maintained and documented as the one from the language you refused to use and 4. it's very common that through the development you or you team realizes the project demands a lot more stuff than anticipated that the other language/ecosystem solves much more easily, now you are stuck with points 1-3.
If you are not 10 years into this, I wish you good luck. I think it would be better to synchronize with javascript/php then with such complex "easy to use" environment as next.js where you don't know where to find ends not to say connect them.
Makes sense. I just finished working on a organisations finance and management project. Even though Next has a clean and robust workflow for the front end but alot of the backend implementations required a dedicated backend framework. For example run cron schedule jobs (generate automated reports on daily, weekly, fortnightly mornth quarterly and yearly bases). Mailing service so send out alerts, reminders and warnings, server health checks, file system related tasks , db service layering (caching, index metering and optimisation) etc. These things could have some how been managed with next but would have absolutely been inefficient and not very flexible.
There is something to add about fullstack developers They either write a monolith app backend + frontend or they write 2 apps, 1 backend api and client app( that can also be a mobile app)
@@professor_ozzy Depends on my clients. Somethimes I use PHP Backend API and VueJS for FrontEnd. Sometimes NodeJS Backend API and VueJS FrontEnd. Sometimes my frontend is an mobile app.
@@RaldinCasidarWhat factors usually push you towards PHP instead of Node JS? And what factors send you the other way? Asking because I'm actually in a situation where I need to pick between PHP and Node JS for a project.
@@ychinamale the factors that tells me which language to pick is the hosting, traffic and complexity of the project. I prefer NodeJS when I want to ship a serverless backend application that is not very complex and have and a project that I expect to have a large traffic. I use PHP if the project is big and complex, for example, a company's internal operation system. I use Laravel for organizing complex projects.
friendly reminder to all ppl who say "i dont have good equipment, no good lighting, etc. so i cant make it" this absolute unit just proved you wrong. with chopsticks and a 420p cam.
I just got carried away, watched the entire video and this is the first time I'm commenting on TH-cam. Pure perfection, throughout the video! hats off senor 🧢
Next JS 13.4 introduces streamable API responses, much like how the OpenAI API streams data. So, in my very amateur perspective, Next JS's statelessness is no longer a plain and simple wait-till-the-end
I like where this was going but it ended abruptly :). I’d love to hear more about the frameworks that are allowing you to do the side effect work ergonomically. In the past, I’ve done one of 3 things: 1. Early on or when it’s likely there will only ever be a few events, use a simple background job / delayed job system (resque, beanstalk, etc) 2. When there is a rich set of transformations or systems concerned with events: a fancy message bus / durable queue (kafka, MySQL magic, etc) 3. My favorite: when you don’t care about delivery guarantees - UDP! (StatsD ;))
For most web apps next js backend is fine. For the application im building it doesnt really work. Its simply easier to do with a custom express server, which is easily integrated with next js. The app im building has a lot of complexity on the backend.
Awesome lessons with great visual example that really helps with following the content. You put what I have been thinking about in such great wording and figures. Nextjs is good if you have a simple backend to support the main thing that is your frontend, but if complexity is in the equation, you are better off using more dedicated tools. Nextjs is full-stack yes/maybe, but an unbalanced full-stack, like how Django focuses more on the backend, and only gives limited frontend options through templating
I love next js in the toolkit, it’s super fast to spin up and intuitive and the ergonomics are amazing. But schedule something, you shall not!!!! Mahahahha.
We are using nextjs with web sockets that communicate from a service to the nextjs backend and from there to the client. It's terrible but porting now would be difficult. Gotta look more at full stack frameworks.
Good point. What I do is that i don’t deploy on vercel (since lambda stop after responding) but I deploy on google appengine instead. I wrote many “fire and forget” functions. That’s not ideal but that’s the price I’m willing to pay for using the amazing t3-stack lol
Two years later, this really helped me understand that SSR doesn’t mean that nextjs is a backend technology :( ORMs like prisma really got me confused lol
Hey mate, that was a great video, but could you please clarify on the mental model for the stateful early return with other side effects being processed after
Can we use Django + React + Nextjs for building a KMS with bi-directional linking + advanced searches at the front end while saving data at the backend?
I think not really. there are few that allow you to work with backend. like remix js or fresh for denojs. those frameworks sell themselves as full stack frameworks, and when you write the code, they know what is front end and what is backend. but I would always use a dedicated backend framework for the backend and keep things separated
You could write a global /init API that automatically does user initialisation processes when they are using the app for the first time. With your example, it might take a small portion of time to resolve all those stuff. Additionally, things you mentioned may be some examples, you might have some complex initialisation processes, which will not work out with the /init API concept.
This is a great video to break from the myopia that often mires developers; the one great thing they use being the holy grail for all things. I find Theo interesting as a new viewer, I just disagree with his toolbox. For small teams with a natural limit of complexity, it makes sense. As you said, these would typically be environments in which side effects are minimal or predictable. But, quite imaginably, the ability for his preferred stack to scale considerably has obvious flaws.
I just use React with Vite and Express on the backend and tRPC as the glue. I serve my frontend through Firebase hosting (no real reason) and it works alright. I used Nest before, especially because I thought its' abstractions over job queues and that sort of thing would help, but it felt very limiting. I spent a weekend porting my platform to Next, just for the heck of it, and it unfortunately made things a lot worse on the backend side of things.
I saw the Theo vid on Next and tried it out, the idea of being able to just await fetch inside my components sounded nice since I was new to React and was working to convert my node js CLI project to have a proper UI. Then I learned what stateless actually means when I spent a few hours debugging why a bunch of Classes that get instantiated in Request 1 are undefined when running Request 2.... I just feel like if your requests are anything beyond basic crud operations with a high need for static generation then next will be more trouble than its worth
This was good. I hadn’t put that much thought into backend from NextJS vs other platforms. My apps have been more simplistic applications that do more front end work so NextJS has worked pretty well for me. But if I was doing something that didn’t have front end in there I wouldn’t be using NextJS but doing something else that handles just back end and handles it very well. This was good, thanks for sharing this. :D
Nest has its purpose in things like, running scheduled tasks, web scraping, among other things that don't need thousands of users hung up consuming resources. And yes, it will be very useful in these cases, you are not always interested in building the next facebook/instragram, if that was your intention, surely a javascript framework for the backend would not be the best choice. If this answer is incomprehensible, please forgive me, it's a translator tool
for me, the server your right for a web application is part of frontend. I would say next is a fullstack WEB framework. backend is something else that goes beyond web
You absolutely can perform side effects without the end user having to wait. Just leave the await keyword out of the statement that initiates the side effects and synchronously call res.end().
This is a great video, what would you recommend for building a backend that can manage users who register on the front end as well as setting user levels on the backend. Currently I'm trying to focus on react only for this, but there doesn't seem to be much information on user levels for front vs back end logins. Thanks so much!
Doesn't sound like a complex backend, Nextjs should be enough Also for users stuff I would recommend checking out clerk.dev, you don't need to build registration and user levels on your own
But how do you solve this problems with other frameworks like Django? You still call async tasks on request if you need something done in background. You use 3rd party lib like Celery.
Nice video, cool implicit explanation of stateful vs stateless APIs. But I think Theo addresses this Next.js problem with the tRPC part of his stack, doesn't he?
I would argue that the registration example you gave was a little shaky. If a user attempts to register and sending the email fails, I think you should bail on the whole operation and tell them that it failed. Otherwise they're going to get a UI that tells them: hey look out for that email you're totally going to receive... but they'll never get it. And because of that, I don't really consider them side effects of the registration process at all. I consider them to be core elements of that flow. And I think the other thing Next solves for you (if you deploy to Vercel or Netlify) is a scalable backend model. Yes, it has the limitations you described, but those limitations are to support it's scalability. But otherwise, I found this to be a thoughtful take.
Most people talk about scale while not even getting high traffic, and Vercel/Netlify aren't doing extraordinary things backend wise that you couldn't do yourself to "scale", their marketing is good tho. Any "old school" backend framework deployed on a vps can handle a massive amount of concurrent requests, and one could also deploy as a docker image to a similar "PaaS" with the same DX as Vercel/Netlify. And if one really wanted to "scale" and just swear by numbers he would just choose something else than React/Next and wouldn't even use Node.
@@heroe1486 I do agree with you over all. But Vercel/Netlify make it moreso just something that you don't really have to worry about. But yeah, for any startup, servers are fine and you can get the same deployment experience with something like Digital Ocean App Platform. But making the kind of scalability and performance offered by Vercel/Netlify is actually a major pain. I've worked for companies that deploy frontend SPAs to S3 and backends to Lambda's hooked up to API Gateway and frankly the environments are rough and there's so much custom code that is incredibly fragile and the code itself and the way it gets deployed is constrained and manual. It's all just really rough in comparison to modern "out of the box" stuff.
This is actually useful information. This should be talked about way more instead of blindly promoting false solutions. Frontend frameworks are not backend nor fullstack.
I think if you want a piece of mind, then you should always go for batteries included framework. One of my favourite framework has been Laravel from last 8 years.
Nest has its purpose in things like, running scheduled tasks, web scraping, among other things that don't need thousands of users hung up consuming resources. And yes, it will be very useful in these cases, you are not always interested in building the next facebook/instragram, if that was your intention, surely a javascript stack for the backend would not be the best choice. If this answer is incomprehensible, please forgive me, it's a translator tool
Can you use NextAuth in NextJS to sign in with Google then pass the session to JestJS to also authorise the user there to be able to use NestJS guards? I can't find any tutorials about this at all
I am only going to use nextjs for frontend and use their server side rendering for simple marketing home page. The core API surely would be written in expresjs on Nodejs runtime. I am not interested in nextjs backend.
Currently using Django+DRF and Next but planing to go full NextJS for productivity and type safety ... couldn't one just reproduce what is doable with a regular express server but with NextJS API routes ? What's the limiting factor here ? API routes being deployed as serverless lambda functions ? Couldn't one just not deploy on Vercel and thus have a stateful backend ?
The main point was not just about Serverless functions, but also about how much the framework helps you when dealing with complex logic. Even a regular express server is not enough on its own when you are have a lot of stuff because express ONLY gives you http capabilities. If you just use express or next when writing complex backends you will basically end up recreating a lot of the patterns that frameworks like Nest provide out of the box.
@@devagr that's my exact concern even custom express server with nextjs won't be enough , if backend grows in complexity. What could be the limiting of using express even though you can work around many things with a wrapper ?
Thanks for this. I built only 2 small projects in my short dev career and both need heavy backend which is constantly doing something. Express or pure node js was ok solution to this I learned that next js is completely useless for this use case although i tried so hard to make it work. From all that features i only used router lol
I approve this message I think
Haha yes! quick question would t3 suck for backend heavy applications too?
Why the fuck is this comment 12 hrs before the main video
@@tapank415 definitely
@@iuc7254 probably private release
I don’t agree with this message 😂
I love what's starting to happen on YT with all of these serious discussions about dev. Love seeing different perspectives, because we all learn from it. Fucking banger content, thank you.
Ryan Carniatos channel
"ISR whatever that is, I am too dumb to figure that out"
Thats too relatable
Sounds like a real backend developer busted some myths. However I think for us that use NextJS heavily we’re not full fledged backend devs. We’re mostly front end, need reliance on server side rendering of react components while needing a few backend API calls.
This, is FANTASTIC. That model of web project structure is spot on and so versatile, and you seem so sincere/authentic/honest with all your statements. So satisfying to watch
The chopsticks were so out of left field from what I expected 😂 instant subscribe
Not sure why you would need to constraint yourself to nextjs in this case for backend if it's limiting your project. Just create the Frontend in nextjs and
use what ever you want as backend (rails, nest, python, java, c#) it doens't matter
for example: there are a lot of AI tools in python why would you need to force it in JS (nextjs), use flask or any other BE available and consume that service from the FE.
To learn one thing best not few things worse than best. Why can't we have one thing good at everything or two things perfectly aligning with each other with a similar way of coding & thinking about code?
@@ebrelus7687 This is a recipie for planned obsolecense, yours.
@@ebrelus7687Because it's impossible. Each language and ecosystem has it's strengths and weaknesses. If the project has a usecase that some language/ecosystem would fit very well, it doesn't make sense to reinvent the wheel, because 1. you and your team will probably not solve the problem as well as the libraries that inspired you 2. you can't afford the time investment 3. Even if you aim to use some 3rd party library, very often that library is not as well maintained and documented as the one from the language you refused to use and 4. it's very common that through the development you or you team realizes the project demands a lot more stuff than anticipated that the other language/ecosystem solves much more easily, now you are stuck with points 1-3.
If you are not 10 years into this, I wish you good luck. I think it would be better to synchronize with javascript/php then with such complex "easy to use" environment as next.js where you don't know where to find ends not to say connect them.
Makes sense. I just finished working on a organisations finance and management project. Even though Next has a clean and robust workflow for the front end but alot of the backend implementations required a dedicated backend framework. For example run cron schedule jobs (generate automated reports on daily, weekly, fortnightly mornth quarterly and yearly bases). Mailing service so send out alerts, reminders and warnings, server health checks, file system related tasks , db service layering (caching, index metering and optimisation) etc. These things could have some how been managed with next but would have absolutely been inefficient and not very flexible.
There is something to add about fullstack developers
They either write a monolith app backend + frontend or they write 2 apps, 1 backend api and client app( that can also be a mobile app)
I am the second one lol
@@RaldinCasidar Platform?
@@professor_ozzy Depends on my clients. Somethimes I use PHP Backend API and VueJS for FrontEnd. Sometimes NodeJS Backend API and VueJS FrontEnd. Sometimes my frontend is an mobile app.
@@RaldinCasidarWhat factors usually push you towards PHP instead of Node JS? And what factors send you the other way? Asking because I'm actually in a situation where I need to pick between PHP and Node JS for a project.
@@ychinamale the factors that tells me which language to pick is the hosting, traffic and complexity of the project. I prefer NodeJS when I want to ship a serverless backend application that is not very complex and have and a project that I expect to have a large traffic. I use PHP if the project is big and complex, for example, a company's internal operation system. I use Laravel for organizing complex projects.
friendly reminder to all ppl who say "i dont have good equipment, no good lighting, etc. so i cant make it" this absolute unit just proved you wrong. with chopsticks and a 420p cam.
My friend this is an amazing video.
Nextjs is growing up so much! Thanks to Theo also.
I just got carried away, watched the entire video and this is the first time I'm commenting on TH-cam. Pure perfection, throughout the video! hats off senor 🧢
Next JS 13.4 introduces streamable API responses, much like how the OpenAI API streams data. So, in my very amateur perspective, Next JS's statelessness is no longer a plain and simple wait-till-the-end
I like where this was going but it ended abruptly :). I’d love to hear more about the frameworks that are allowing you to do the side effect work ergonomically. In the past, I’ve done one of 3 things:
1. Early on or when it’s likely there will only ever be a few events, use a simple background job / delayed job system (resque, beanstalk, etc)
2. When there is a rich set of transformations or systems concerned with events: a fancy message bus / durable queue (kafka, MySQL magic, etc)
3. My favorite: when you don’t care about delivery guarantees - UDP! (StatsD ;))
Any framework that doesn't run on "the edge" is perfectly fine.
I agree! It's like using chopsticks instead of a fork and a knife for holding a mic!
Boy you're gonna love my video on microservices
😂
For most web apps next js backend is fine. For the application im building it doesnt really work.
Its simply easier to do with a custom express server, which is easily integrated with next js. The app im building has a lot of complexity on the backend.
Awesome lessons with great visual example that really helps with following the content. You put what I have been thinking about in such great wording and figures.
Nextjs is good if you have a simple backend to support the main thing that is your frontend, but if complexity is in the equation, you are better off using more dedicated tools. Nextjs is full-stack yes/maybe, but an unbalanced full-stack, like how Django focuses more on the backend, and only gives limited frontend options through templating
Ya, But there's DRF & Fastapi also, which you utilize if you want to work with js frontend.
What would be a good example of a backend/business logic heavy application? Like the one at 5:03
If you keep watching a little more, I recommend Nestjs for backend heavy applications.
@@devagr Think you misread his question
nextjs is pretty teriible for any backend system that requires real-time communication (especially websockets)
Yeah but for that you just use a 3rd party service
I love next js in the toolkit, it’s super fast to spin up and intuitive and the ergonomics are amazing. But schedule something, you shall not!!!! Mahahahha.
We are using nextjs with web sockets that communicate from a service to the nextjs backend and from there to the client. It's terrible but porting now would be difficult. Gotta look more at full stack frameworks.
@@devagr Is there any alternative to nest.js & next.js?
Next.js is pretty terrible for anything
One of my favorite videos already
Good point. What I do is that i don’t deploy on vercel (since lambda stop after responding) but I deploy on google appengine instead. I wrote many “fire and forget” functions. That’s not ideal but that’s the price I’m willing to pay for using the amazing t3-stack lol
Great content . Goes to show how thoroughly we need to think before developing software .
the best use of chopsticks ever 🔥🤣
Two years later, this really helped me understand that SSR doesn’t mean that nextjs is a backend technology :(
ORMs like prisma really got me confused lol
numbers on socials don't define one's capabilities, loved the explanation.
Absolutely brilliant content, keep up the good work! 🙌🏻
fair point, theo is a more frontend dev though, so he might not address these kinds of more server apps
Got wrecked when I tried to implement background jobs in Nextjs.
I moved back to .Net core.
I am new to this concept, would you please elaborate a little on this?
This is great, I really learned something from this video.
Thanks for clearing a bit of confusion
Good points! And I watched till the end to see if you eat that sushi or not 😂
Hey mate, that was a great video, but could you please clarify on the mental model for the stateful early return with other side effects being processed after
please don't eat the mic
Can we use Django + React + Nextjs for building a KMS with bi-directional linking + advanced searches at the front end while saving data at the backend?
you can use Django, Nextjs, Prisma with Mongodb or Postgres but if performance critical i will go with Fastify than Django.
@@Nobody-eg4bi Thanks
I assume that applies to svelte kit, nuxt and other metaframeworks
I think not really. there are few that allow you to work with backend. like remix js or fresh for denojs. those frameworks sell themselves as full stack frameworks, and when you write the code, they know what is front end and what is backend. but I would always use a dedicated backend framework for the backend and keep things separated
Wow those chopstick skills 😂
Good vid happy my algorithm recommended you!
You could write a global /init API that automatically does user initialisation processes when they are using the app for the first time. With your example, it might take a small portion of time to resolve all those stuff.
Additionally, things you mentioned may be some examples, you might have some complex initialisation processes, which will not work out with the /init API concept.
Dude I saw the chopsticks... I know you the guy who knows everything. 😂😂😂
Just found your channel. Excellent Content - Another sub for you!
Wow, what a great explanation of all the components of an app. Please more of these :)
Your explaination was great man helped me clear all doubts
0:35 little up and coming content creator 💀
Makes sense! Good visuals and insightful content
This is a great video to break from the myopia that often mires developers; the one great thing they use being the holy grail for all things. I find Theo interesting as a new viewer, I just disagree with his toolbox. For small teams with a natural limit of complexity, it makes sense. As you said, these would typically be environments in which side effects are minimal or predictable. But, quite imaginably, the ability for his preferred stack to scale considerably has obvious flaws.
Honestly if I were starting out on a new small sass project, I wouldn't worry about having a separate backend. I'd just get started.
Immediately subscribed, very clear concepts 💯
As we would say here in Brazil: o maluco é brabo!
Excellent content
I think node js with express is really good for writing the backend for the application where a lot of backend code gonna use.
Yes exactly thank you!
I just use React with Vite and Express on the backend and tRPC as the glue. I serve my frontend through Firebase hosting (no real reason) and it works alright. I used Nest before, especially because I thought its' abstractions over job queues and that sort of thing would help, but it felt very limiting. I spent a weekend porting my platform to Next, just for the heck of it, and it unfortunately made things a lot worse on the backend side of things.
What limitations did you encounter with nest?
I'd suggest having a look at Deepkit RPC
What use cases of RPC? and when do you need it?
I saw the Theo vid on Next and tried it out, the idea of being able to just await fetch inside my components sounded nice since I was new to React and was working to convert my node js CLI project to have a proper UI. Then I learned what stateless actually means when I spent a few hours debugging why a bunch of Classes that get instantiated in Request 1 are undefined when running Request 2.... I just feel like if your requests are anything beyond basic crud operations with a high need for static generation then next will be more trouble than its worth
This was good. I hadn’t put that much thought into backend from NextJS vs other platforms. My apps have been more simplistic applications that do more front end work so NextJS has worked pretty well for me. But if I was doing something that didn’t have front end in there I wouldn’t be using NextJS but doing something else that handles just back end and handles it very well.
This was good, thanks for sharing this. :D
Finally. Thank you for this video.
thank you for recommending Nest -- I'll have to check it out!
I don't want to call it horrible, but in my opinion It's horrible.
Nest has its purpose in things like, running scheduled tasks, web scraping, among other things that don't need thousands of users hung up consuming resources.
And yes, it will be very useful in these cases, you are not always interested in building the next facebook/instragram, if that was your intention, surely a javascript framework for the backend would not be the best choice.
If this answer is incomprehensible, please forgive me, it's a translator tool
i really do aggree with this guy. he knows what he is saying and it really make sense. most of theme don't talk like this guy. really helpful video.
good video please finish the question . what is the best solution then , i know you said Nest but i want more answer to solve the problem .
Nice breakdown
I Can totally trust a guy who holds his mic in chopsticks.
that chopstick caught me off guard. lol
I like the video, was waiting for him to put that mic in his mouth the whole time though 😂
I don't use next.js at work, but i do use a stateless backend and to solve the user registration problem i use a message queue, is it a bad idea?
i'm not sure about stateful comment u made tho what do u do - a task broker ?
How would one define the differences between business logic and data logic? What are some examples?
Thank you for this explanation … what would you recommend for a beginner working on an e-commerce website + mobile app ?
for me, the server your right for a web application is part of frontend. I would say next is a fullstack WEB framework. backend is something else that goes beyond web
Looooool your going places my dev friend
Thanks for the video mate
Yes you can. You can also hammer a nail with a drinking glass.
Greate video, thank you 🙏
Bro kept his hand up for almost 10 minutes to make a joke with the mic lol 💀
Nice to know... Thanks mate
You absolutely can perform side effects without the end user having to wait. Just leave the await keyword out of the statement that initiates the side effects and synchronously call res.end().
Great, watch.
i like the background music..!! Can you share the link?
I don't see the problem on running async tasks without awaiting them on getServerSideProps and such 🤔
This is a great video, what would you recommend for building a backend that can manage users who register on the front end as well as setting user levels on the backend. Currently I'm trying to focus on react only for this, but there doesn't seem to be much information on user levels for front vs back end logins. Thanks so much!
Doesn't sound like a complex backend, Nextjs should be enough
Also for users stuff I would recommend checking out clerk.dev, you don't need to build registration and user levels on your own
@@devagr thats amazing! Thanks for the fast reply my friend!
I like this... Makes sense to me!
But how do you solve this problems with other frameworks like Django? You still call async tasks on request if you need something done in background. You use 3rd party lib like Celery.
Nice video, cool implicit explanation of stateful vs stateless APIs. But I think Theo addresses this Next.js problem with the tRPC part of his stack, doesn't he?
Hard to follow with the background 'music'...
I would argue that the registration example you gave was a little shaky. If a user attempts to register and sending the email fails, I think you should bail on the whole operation and tell them that it failed. Otherwise they're going to get a UI that tells them: hey look out for that email you're totally going to receive... but they'll never get it. And because of that, I don't really consider them side effects of the registration process at all. I consider them to be core elements of that flow.
And I think the other thing Next solves for you (if you deploy to Vercel or Netlify) is a scalable backend model. Yes, it has the limitations you described, but those limitations are to support it's scalability.
But otherwise, I found this to be a thoughtful take.
Most people talk about scale while not even getting high traffic, and Vercel/Netlify aren't doing extraordinary things backend wise that you couldn't do yourself to "scale", their marketing is good tho.
Any "old school" backend framework deployed on a vps can handle a massive amount of concurrent requests, and one could also deploy as a docker image to a similar "PaaS" with the same DX as Vercel/Netlify.
And if one really wanted to "scale" and just swear by numbers he would just choose something else than React/Next and wouldn't even use Node.
@@heroe1486 I do agree with you over all. But Vercel/Netlify make it moreso just something that you don't really have to worry about. But yeah, for any startup, servers are fine and you can get the same deployment experience with something like Digital Ocean App Platform.
But making the kind of scalability and performance offered by Vercel/Netlify is actually a major pain. I've worked for companies that deploy frontend SPAs to S3 and backends to Lambda's hooked up to API Gateway and frankly the environments are rough and there's so much custom code that is incredibly fragile and the code itself and the way it gets deployed is constrained and manual. It's all just really rough in comparison to modern "out of the box" stuff.
@@heroe1486 what would you suggest to use instead of React/Node in this case?
So? Any alternatives
omg chopstick mic!! Approved!
This is actually useful information. This should be talked about way more instead of blindly promoting false solutions. Frontend frameworks are not backend nor fullstack.
Chopsticks to hold your mic.... okay
I think if you want a piece of mind, then you should always go for batteries included framework. One of my favourite framework has been Laravel from last 8 years.
What if we combine Nest and Next? Do they sufficient?
More than sufficient i would say
Nest has its purpose in things like, running scheduled tasks, web scraping, among other things that don't need thousands of users hung up consuming resources.
And yes, it will be very useful in these cases, you are not always interested in building the next facebook/instragram, if that was your intention, surely a javascript stack for the backend would not be the best choice.
If this answer is incomprehensible, please forgive me, it's a translator tool
Can you use NextAuth in NextJS to sign in with Google then pass the session to JestJS to also authorise the user there to be able to use NestJS guards? I can't find any tutorials about this at all
I am only going to use nextjs for frontend and use their server side rendering for simple marketing home page. The core API surely would be written in expresjs on Nodejs runtime. I am not interested in nextjs backend.
Theo talked about you in Next Conf
You mean in his session?
Yes in his session. Next js is backed famework
Oh I know about that
nextjs and spring boot have saimilar syntax..........any idea which is better?
Great visuals
Bro can I work with you, I can do frontend part and I am currently learning backend part
dm me on twitter @devagrawal09
That was a good explanation 👏
thanks sensei
Which technology should I choose for the back end with React? MERN stack is good?
I feel like next video you'll be putting the mic in a test tube...
Thanks for the idea lol
Can you tell me how to upload nextJS App to our own node server? not vercel or any other third-party. because I added but I got issues...
Currently using Django+DRF and Next but planing to go full NextJS for productivity and type safety ... couldn't one just reproduce what is doable with a regular express server but with NextJS API routes ? What's the limiting factor here ? API routes being deployed as serverless lambda functions ? Couldn't one just not deploy on Vercel and thus have a stateful backend ?
The main point was not just about Serverless functions, but also about how much the framework helps you when dealing with complex logic. Even a regular express server is not enough on its own when you are have a lot of stuff because express ONLY gives you http capabilities. If you just use express or next when writing complex backends you will basically end up recreating a lot of the patterns that frameworks like Nest provide out of the box.
@@devagr that's my exact concern even custom express server with nextjs won't be enough , if backend grows in complexity. What could be the limiting of using express even though you can work around many things with a wrapper ?
chopsticks se mic pakarta hu, Kool laguga
T ki jagah pe TH bolta hu, Accent jhad ke Extra Cool laguga
Thanks for this. I built only 2 small projects in my short dev career and both need heavy backend which is constantly doing something. Express or pure node js was ok solution to this
I learned that next js is completely useless for this use case although i tried so hard to make it work. From all that features i only used router lol