You're literally the only person I've watched to give plot-driven stories merit and even offer up some advice. Please do more on plot-driven. Learning how to write good and entertaining plots is not as easy as most writing teachers I've come across seem to pretend.
I must say, this video took me by surprise. During the past year or so I have read a sh*tload of writing blogs and watched ridiculously many videos about writing. Everyone else (and I mean EVERYONE(!)) that I have seen/read so far classify character-driven as the "right thing to do" and plot-driven as the "wrong/lazy way to do it". No questions asked, no thorough explanation - just completely black and white. (Which kinda bothered me, seeing as I believe the story I've been working on for the past year is leaning towards plot-driven, and it has been driving me crazy to try and "fix it"). So it was a relief to see someone approach the topic differently and explain how neither one is "good/right" or "bad/wrong", and how the different types of "drive" can work in a story. Thank you, Shaelin. I really needed that.
As a reader, I've come to realize over time that character driven books are what engage me the most. Even if its an interesting plot I still struggle to care about the story if the characters have no depth.
I usually write character-driven, I believe, though I had not thought about it. I have a mystery I wrote that I am editing that probably is more plot-driven, but very strong on character. I guess my question is, what difference does it make? Does an editor/lit agent or publisher care, or is it more informational for the writer? Thanks!
@@satoshinakamoto7253 this is... so incorrect lmao edit: going through the comments - very confused as to why you felt the need to reply to every comment with this
The story will lean towards one or the other. Let's say a train derails in a city where the main character is. Does the story focus more on the logistics of what happened, how it happened and why or does it focus more on what the character is feeling, their thoughts and actions
@@upg5147 the story I am writing is told from the point-of-view of a 38 year old legally blind man who's going completely blind and he grew up a victim of physical, emotional, sexual and narcissistic abuse and it really messed him up so he moved across the country to Las Vegas to try to start over and enjoy his life while he could still see. Right before the Story begins he returned home from an Ayahuasca retreat that brought all these old emotions out in the open for him to deal with and let go of. At the right time he meets a female vampire that can read his mind and see right through him and knows what he needs to heal and she falls in love with him. Meanwhile, she takes him to New York where her adoptive father owns a nightclub but there's also a rogue vampire that's killing people in the city while the vampires that associate with my characters don't kill for food. One of the victims father turns out to be a Navy SEAL and once he comes into the pictures all the vampires scatter. My two main characters go to Virginia where my main character grew up after my female vampires adoptive father gave them money to start over. After he goes home he's faced with his family and all the things they did to him. Later, the story really picks back up and the overall point is, there's just as much put into the story as there is the main character and his mindset. The overall theme of my book is to help people who have been victimized in their own lives, be able to find the strength to move on. It's partially my life story but it's also set to a vampire romance that is going to open up a whole world moving forward. I know that's not much to go on but the point is I am trading both parts of the story equally.
@@darrenfreyauthor I think a big problem with trying to balance the two is that it can lead to both sides feeling shallow. I agree that stories should be told with both being equally captivating and engaging but as a writer, you do tend to lean to one. To me, this clearly leans more towards the characters than the plot. The characters themselves are what are center stage with things happening around them vs them necessarily causing each plot point to happen. To put this in perspective, something like the Fast and Furious movies are more plot focused while something like Joker is more character driven.
@@upg5147 I understand what you are saying, but what if The Joker were in Fast and the Furious? Like, what if two stories were being told? One of them could be his story from his point of view while all this action and twists and turns and everything else was going on around him?
@@upg5147 look at Game of Thrones for example. We had this amazing, epic story going on but we are also getting deep into some of the characters heads as it unfolds around them.
I prefer character-driven, but not for the reasons you would think. I really I'm not a huge fan of the concept of " A MAIN Character"..... I usually find most pieces of literature, (with the exception of comic books) whether it's a novel, a TV show or movie, that follows one Central character and focuses on that character and their specific Journey, to be very uninteresting most of the time. I prefer ensemble cast, with deep character-driven narrative and explores their interpersonal relationships with one another and gets the reader emotionally invested and multiple characters. Some of my favorite fictional stories are Lost, Game of Thrones, Cobra Kai, Stranger Things, the Star Wars saga, The Avengers, Fast and the Furious, the Eslking Dead, the Stand, Needful Rhings, Vampirates, The Chronicles of The Necromancer, just story lines with several characters that are all-important to the overall story. But also have deep relationships with one another, and their own steaks outside of the main plot. When you have an ensemble cast, there's always room for a Redemption Arc which I'm also a big fan of
What do you think, in the context of this conversation of course, about Avatar: The Last Airbender? It is mos def plot-driven, the creators even knew how it ends from the get go, yet this series is famously loved because of the depth and realness of its characters! I mean, isn't this a perfect example of Character AND Plot woven perfectly? It sure explains the series' massive success to this day..
Guess mine is a plot driven one. Logline below A wounded cop with lost memory declared rogue on the run must uncover the truth behind a botched arms smuggling undercover operation when a retired ex black ops officer skilled at combat and tactics is forced to swear bloodfest against him for killing his innocent brother at point blank range...
I now realize all my short stories are haracter driven....Like Studio Ghibli...Studio Ghibli movies are character driven...most of the movies are, right?
I prefer character driven stories. Plot driven books can be interesting, but readers will forget about it after a week or so. Character driven books makes the book memorable, the reader will not forget about it.
Character driven stories can be more seriously moral than you are allowing. Anything that makes a moral statement worth a reader's time, will have to correspond to how human beings really are, and the real challenges of life. The fact is that these are seldom neat. In fact, a too-neat scene looks like a trap, to anyone who's had to wrestle long with life, piling on its ambiguities, cruelties, and crushing dilemmas. Anything less, looks like a set-up, the point of the common phrase, "too good to be true". This is definitely true of human character, too. Anyone who presents as 100% good, is going to eventually be shown to have been dishonest, and not good at all. It does not inspire trust. So morally disinterested people may find a morally-oversimplified story, satisfying, but not for a good reason. People who care, know that the black hats and white hats don't mean a thing. They look for characters who embody the moral predicaments we live in, and grow towards truth, in spite of them.
The film "Paterson" with Adam Driver has little to no plot, but is still great because of the theme which is conveyed by the character. "Arrival" has a brilliant plot that is directly tied to the main character, Dr. Luise Banks (played by the astonishing Amy Adams). "Go Tell It on the Mountain" by James Baldwin barely has a plot, but explores the characters so deeply that the novel becomes a spiritual experience. And Baldwin is a master of character driven stories. I feel like character-driven stories are richer and more in depth when it comes to exploring human experiences. However, I really enjoy when a plot like in "The Martian" by Andy Weir catches me and drags me into a world with fundamental questions of existence, while it also maintains to show an interesting character.
Could you do a viceo about how to handle a very passive protagonist? A lot of writing advice says "let your protagonist be very active" but mine isn't, at least in the beginning. It changes during the story of course but especially in the first act he's very quiet and subdued and feels kind of helpless. How can I make it work without having to change his entire character arc (which is about making his own decisions and learning to stand up for himself).
This information is awesome, but you're speaking too fast for many of us to take any kind of notes, or even just remember what's most important to us. Personally, I'm ok with a slightly longer video I can get more from than one that saves me 5 minutes.
You're literally the only person I've watched to give plot-driven stories merit and even offer up some advice. Please do more on plot-driven. Learning how to write good and entertaining plots is not as easy as most writing teachers I've come across seem to pretend.
I must say, this video took me by surprise. During the past year or so I have read a sh*tload of writing blogs and watched ridiculously many videos about writing. Everyone else (and I mean EVERYONE(!)) that I have seen/read so far classify character-driven as the "right thing to do" and plot-driven as the "wrong/lazy way to do it". No questions asked, no thorough explanation - just completely black and white. (Which kinda bothered me, seeing as I believe the story I've been working on for the past year is leaning towards plot-driven, and it has been driving me crazy to try and "fix it"). So it was a relief to see someone approach the topic differently and explain how neither one is "good/right" or "bad/wrong", and how the different types of "drive" can work in a story. Thank you, Shaelin. I really needed that.
I strongly believe there really is no right or wrong way to tell a story in pretty much all aspects, in this case and in pretty much all others!
DEFINITELY CHARACTER DRIVEN! I LOVE YOUR TIPS. SO HELPFUL.
As a reader, I've come to realize over time that character driven books are what engage me the most. Even if its an interesting plot I still struggle to care about the story if the characters have no depth.
I usually write character-driven, I believe, though I had not thought about it. I have a mystery I wrote that I am editing that probably is more plot-driven, but very strong on character. I guess my question is, what difference does it make? Does an editor/lit agent or publisher care, or is it more informational for the writer? Thanks!
women care more about character development (emotional carousel) , whereas men care about plot development more
@@satoshinakamoto7253 this is... so incorrect lmao
edit: going through the comments - very confused as to why you felt the need to reply to every comment with this
What about a story with a very engaging plot but also told from the point-of-view of a very complex character?
The story will lean towards one or the other. Let's say a train derails in a city where the main character is. Does the story focus more on the logistics of what happened, how it happened and why or does it focus more on what the character is feeling, their thoughts and actions
@@upg5147 the story I am writing is told from the point-of-view of a 38 year old legally blind man who's going completely blind and he grew up a victim of physical, emotional, sexual and narcissistic abuse and it really messed him up so he moved across the country to Las Vegas to try to start over and enjoy his life while he could still see. Right before the Story begins he returned home from an Ayahuasca retreat that brought all these old emotions out in the open for him to deal with and let go of. At the right time he meets a female vampire that can read his mind and see right through him and knows what he needs to heal and she falls in love with him.
Meanwhile, she takes him to New York where her adoptive father owns a nightclub but there's also a rogue vampire that's killing people in the city while the vampires that associate with my characters don't kill for food. One of the victims father turns out to be a Navy SEAL and once he comes into the pictures all the vampires scatter. My two main characters go to Virginia where my main character grew up after my female vampires adoptive father gave them money to start over. After he goes home he's faced with his family and all the things they did to him. Later, the story really picks back up and the overall point is, there's just as much put into the story as there is the main character and his mindset. The overall theme of my book is to help people who have been victimized in their own lives, be able to find the strength to move on. It's partially my life story but it's also set to a vampire romance that is going to open up a whole world moving forward.
I know that's not much to go on but the point is I am trading both parts of the story equally.
@@darrenfreyauthor I think a big problem with trying to balance the two is that it can lead to both sides feeling shallow. I agree that stories should be told with both being equally captivating and engaging but as a writer, you do tend to lean to one.
To me, this clearly leans more towards the characters than the plot. The characters themselves are what are center stage with things happening around them vs them necessarily causing each plot point to happen.
To put this in perspective, something like the Fast and Furious movies are more plot focused while something like Joker is more character driven.
@@upg5147 I understand what you are saying, but what if The Joker were in Fast and the Furious? Like, what if two stories were being told? One of them could be his story from his point of view while all this action and twists and turns and everything else was going on around him?
@@upg5147 look at Game of Thrones for example. We had this amazing, epic story going on but we are also getting deep into some of the characters heads as it unfolds around them.
I write plot driven most of the time.
I prefer character-driven, but not for the reasons you would think. I really I'm not a huge fan of the concept of " A MAIN Character"..... I usually find most pieces of literature, (with the exception of comic books) whether it's a novel, a TV show or movie, that follows one Central character and focuses on that character and their specific Journey, to be very uninteresting most of the time. I prefer ensemble cast, with deep character-driven narrative and explores their interpersonal relationships with one another and gets the reader emotionally invested and multiple characters. Some of my favorite fictional stories are Lost, Game of Thrones, Cobra Kai, Stranger Things, the Star Wars saga, The Avengers, Fast and the Furious, the Eslking Dead, the Stand, Needful Rhings, Vampirates, The Chronicles of The Necromancer, just story lines with several characters that are all-important to the overall story. But also have deep relationships with one another, and their own steaks outside of the main plot. When you have an ensemble cast, there's always room for a Redemption Arc which I'm also a big fan of
Really Awesome , Very Helpful 👍😊
What do you think, in the context of this conversation of course, about Avatar: The Last Airbender? It is mos def plot-driven, the creators even knew how it ends from the get go, yet this series is famously loved because of the depth and realness of its characters! I mean, isn't this a perfect example of Character AND Plot woven perfectly? It sure explains the series' massive success to this day..
great video
Great advice thanks.
Thanks!
Guess mine is a plot driven one. Logline below
A wounded cop with lost memory declared rogue on the run must uncover the truth behind a botched arms smuggling undercover operation when a retired ex black ops officer skilled at combat and tactics is forced to swear bloodfest against him for killing his innocent brother at point blank range...
I now realize all my short stories are haracter driven....Like Studio Ghibli...Studio Ghibli movies are character driven...most of the movies are, right?
women care more about character development (emotional carousel) , whereas men care about plot development more
I prefer character driven stories.
Plot driven books can be interesting, but readers will forget about it after a week or so.
Character driven books makes the book memorable, the reader will not forget about it.
Charcater *
:/
Character driven stories can be more seriously moral than you are allowing. Anything that makes a moral statement worth a reader's time, will have to correspond to how human beings really are, and the real challenges of life. The fact is that these are seldom neat. In fact, a too-neat scene looks like a trap, to anyone who's had to wrestle long with life, piling on its ambiguities, cruelties, and crushing dilemmas. Anything less, looks like a set-up, the point of the common phrase, "too good to be true".
This is definitely true of human character, too. Anyone who presents as 100% good, is going to eventually be shown to have been dishonest, and not good at all. It does not inspire trust. So morally disinterested people may find a morally-oversimplified story, satisfying, but not for a good reason. People who care, know that the black hats and white hats don't mean a thing. They look for characters who embody the moral predicaments we live in, and grow towards truth, in spite of them.
women care more about character development (emotional carousel) , whereas men care about plot development more
I hate good vs evil.
I'm a songwriter who gets a lot of mileage from your channel. Another great upload.
I prefer character driven stories, because they are much more interesting to read about.
Totally agree, but don't you have some... blocks at some point of your story?
@@corrdress1815 Yes, but i try to work through those to the best of my ability.
@@ClefairyFairySnowflake Ow, thanks cool. How do you do that? I need some help with that hahaha
Plot driven : no arc
Character driven : character arc
Some plot driven strories that are very strong in character development are the best stories to me. Like Inception, or game of thrones.
The film "Paterson" with Adam Driver has little to no plot, but is still great because of the theme which is conveyed by the character.
"Arrival" has a brilliant plot that is directly tied to the main character, Dr. Luise Banks (played by the astonishing Amy Adams).
"Go Tell It on the Mountain" by James Baldwin barely has a plot, but explores the characters so deeply that the novel becomes a spiritual experience. And Baldwin is a master of character driven stories.
I feel like character-driven stories are richer and more in depth when it comes to exploring human experiences. However, I really enjoy when a plot like in "The Martian" by Andy Weir catches me and drags me into a world with fundamental questions of existence, while it also maintains to show an interesting character.
Actions (plot) make character develop
How would you go about a plot driven novel when there's more then one characters that are the cause of the chain of events?
Could you do a viceo about how to handle a very passive protagonist? A lot of writing advice says "let your protagonist be very active" but mine isn't, at least in the beginning. It changes during the story of course but especially in the first act he's very quiet and subdued and feels kind of helpless. How can I make it work without having to change his entire character arc (which is about making his own decisions and learning to stand up for himself).
Thisss!!!
Among other things yes.
@DJHart Since you didn't seem to have read or understand my question, please refrain from answering.
women care more about character development (emotional carousel) , whereas men care about plot development more
What about Marvel movies, are they character driven or plot driven? I think both.....?????
women care more about character development (emotional carousel) , whereas men care about plot development more
Thanks
I love plot-driven stories.
women care more about character development (emotional carousel) , whereas men care about plot development more
True, but we all have our own tastes we like to stick to.
My last two short stories were strongly character driven. I usually do character driven stories.
Thanks for info Miss Sunrise Bishop your the best and you Rock Sunrise
Character is misspelled
women care more about character development (emotional carousel) , whereas men care about plot development more
This information is awesome, but you're speaking too fast for many of us to take any kind of notes, or even just remember what's most important to us. Personally, I'm ok with a slightly longer video I can get more from than one that saves me 5 minutes.
You can slow down (or speed up) the playback speed of TH-cam videos
Why don't you pause on the parts? That could help!
women care more about character development (emotional carousel) , whereas men care about plot development more
Plot driven : no arc
Character driven : character arc
That is not true.
women care more about character development (emotional carousel) , whereas men care about plot development more