"Consequences" & "Doppelgangland" (3x15-3x16) | *Buffy the Vampire Slayer* Reaction
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ส.ค. 2024
- I hope you enjoy my reactions to Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Season Three, Episodes 15 & 16: "Consequences" & "Doppelgangland"!
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I like that the show actually shows you exactly how the spell went wrong. She was supposed to pour the sand on the picture of the necklace to pull it from the past of that universe right before it was destroyed. When she gets those visions, she spills the sand on herself, not the picture, so it pulls her from that universe right before her destruction.
But some reactors still miss that 👀
VBane's comment was a doh! moment for me. I've missed it all along, and I saw it when it aired, a couple times since then and in a bunch of reactions. @@godmagnus
Percy being forever scared of Willow is my favorite thing in the world
One of the best things about Doppelgangland, besides it being fun and Alyson Hannigan getting to show off her acting chops, is that is reveals (belatedly) how much of an impact The Wish has story-wise. At first it seems like a one-off episode, especially since none of the characters remember what happened. But there are numerous call backs. Buffy saying about Faith "that could've been me, if circumstances were different" and we KNOW that is true, because we saw that version of Buffy. In Gingerbread Joyce saying "how much of an impact do you really have?" and we KNOW Buffy does, because we've seen the alternative Sunnydale. And finally here in Doppelgangland, we see the moment you pointed out - where Buffy stops herself from staking at the last second, where Faith couldn't. It brings home all the earlier subtle points because Buffy IS the better Slayer (ie. in control) partly because she has what Faith doesn't - people she cares about and who care about her. I love The Wish, but I love it even more for its delayed impact - truly such brilliant storytelling.
Doppelgangland is definitely worth a rewatch later in the series. Multiple aspects to it become even funnier with that perspective.
Oh, yeah, right. She kinda missed out on something here.
Hush you.
@@pascal-Z
No, that's season 4. 🤫😝
Fatih was never just a funny girl, she's a deeply damaged person and has been since her introduction though the shows been a pretty light touch on it. The heavy implication from her first episode is that the demon she was running from at the start did a lot more than just murder the woman that was her watcher and did it in front of her as a threat of what was going to happen to her next. She's someone that's been walking a mental health knifes edge laden with self hatred and survivors guilt with no real support due to her isolation. It was just a matter of time until something came along and sent her spiraling.
Exactly. And even before her Watcher died that way, her homelife was no picnic. ("My dead mother hits harder than that." ~ Faith, 'Faith, Hope, and Trick')
Cass was calling Faith a "funny girl" in a sarcastic way. Throughout the season Cass has been noticing all the dark stuff about Faith. Cass feels that deep down Faith does care about killing the guy and because of that she is supressing her true feelings for what she did to him.
I think it's important that Faith might have had a bad home life *before* getting her slayer powers. That's a shit ton of responsibility on someone who's essentially a homeless teen. I think she's at her breaking point. She's hit the limit of how much bad stuff her brain can fit.
There is a comic series that delves into Faith’s early years. When she is first put into foster care as a girl, she gets put with a super loving caring couple and is really happy. But it’s eventually revealed that they had a young son who was turned by a vampire. They keep him chained in the basement and occasionally feed him a foster kid, claiming they’ve run away. Faith gets away but is scarred for life by the level of betrayal.
The watcher's council should've put her up in an apartment. They live lavishly but could careless about the slayers.
Dopplegangland is tremendous fun - it's got one of my favourite bits of physical comedy from the show in it - Xander shaking the cross at Willow like it's a flakey remote control with worn out batteries. Up there with him pushing that cabinet in front of the library doors in Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered,
😂 I did not have enough appreciation for that scene, but now that you've pointed it out, holy heck you're right that's fantastic!! 🤣
It was very sweet that Giles also hugged Willow. Watching Evil Willow having to listen to Cordelia's admonishment was funny. Although she was already technically dead, Willows eyes looked deader than usual.
For what it's worth, Wesley is supposed to be just out of the academy - think 21/22ish - which makes the age difference between him and Cordy smaller than Buffy and Angel's human age.
They aren't sending their best, though. Maybe because they see it as too dangerous and they expect the watchers working with Buffy at the hellmouth to get killed.
IDK I kinda feel like he's more meant to be late twenties--he probably had some sort of graduate education and maybe did a year or two doing whatever Watchers who don't have a Slayer do to work their way up, but then Charisma Carpenter IRL was late twenties (if not yet thirty while filming this episode, I'm not sure) too, and as far as mistaking her for a teacher she was actually older--though only by something like a couple months--than the actress who played Jenny Calendar.
@@lolrirs7754And obviously in real life the actor is married to Alyson
@@lolrirs7754 Aside from the actor's age - Wesley and Cordelia aren't supposed to be that far apart in age anyway. Late 30s? I doubt it. If anything Cordelia is probably 18 here and Wesley probably 25 or so. Nobody batted an eye with Angel (200+) and Buffy (16)
The unusual thing about is that she’s in high school but it’s not that weird like pedophilia or something because she’s an adult technically and he’s not ancient. It’s more of an age gap then I would have been comfortable with at 25 but not by a lot. I think a 25 year old guy and like a 20 year old woman is pretty normal. I think 25/18 is just more weird because she’s a student and I think a lot happens maturity wise in that gap. But it doesn’t make him a predator.
Doppelgangland is definitely in my top 10 Buffy episodes. One of the funniest and "funnest" episodes.
*ABSOLUTELY!* 🤩 And the fact alone it has a double Willow makes it authomatically 1 of the best episodes of the whole show!❤❤❤❤❤
It's my #1. Easily. Cool plot, good action scenes, and probably the funniest episode in the series (which is saying a lot). The scene in the library might be my favourite scene ever.
19:20 The way I see the Faith situation is, here's this young girl who's had an abusive upbringing, doesn't let people in as a result, probably doesn't think much of herself, then she becomes a Slayer, she gets a Watcher, who tells her that she's chosen to be a hero. That means that she's not whatever negative things she's believed about herself. She lives with her Watcher, probably starts forming a bond with her like Buffy has with Giles, a substitute parent, and then has to watch her die. So now she's got survivor's guilt, probably blames herself for for her Watcher's death, maybe hates herself for running away instead of trying to avenge her Watcher. She comes to Sunnydale and there's Buffy, with a good Mom, a Watcher who cares for her, and friends. Died going up against a master vampire, came back, and took him out. Always trying to do the right thing. Which probably makes Faith feel worse about herself and and feel a little envy/resentment towards Buffy. After she killed the assistant mayor, I think she did give up on the idea that she was one of the good guys. In her mind, she's just proved that she's no good, and if she goes full villain, then she can't fool herself into believing otherwise again. As far as Xander goes, I want to believe that she would've stopped, that she thought she could do it, and at the last minute, pulls back, but...if she was really trying to cement in her mind that she's bad...not just killing a rando in a fight...killing someone she knows, someone close to Buffy, with no heat of battle to excuse it? That would've been a hell of a way to do it.
Remember how you've thought "The Wish" won't have any, well, consequences?
Faith is such a fascinating character.
Both of these episodes are something to come back to later in the series, they have so many critical character and relationship moments for almost every character that the writers build on in later episodes of both shows.
On the Faith / Xander scene in "Consequences"... looking at her face, I think there's a point where Faith is actually hurting over what she's doing, but I don't know if that means she would have stopped if Angel hadn't come through the door. I don't know.
Beyond even the guilt of it, the vulnerability of having made the mistake is an open wound for Faith. And she tries to cover her tracks by dumping the body. She tries minimizing the life she took. She tries rationalizing it in the big picture. She tries putting it on Buffy. And I think Buffy, Xander, Angel (maybe less so Wesley) had the best of intentions confronting her about it, but I really think they were just inadvertently poking Faith where she was already hurting. We know she has big trust issues, and what she probably needed in that moment was unconditional support and the space to deal with this on her own terms, rather than people rubbing her nose in what she'd done. But ultimately, all of this boils over and the only way left for her to "undo the mistake" and regain her personal strength is to become the person who would do something like that on purpose. I think that's what's driving her in the Xander scene - and why she eventually goes to the Mayor.
Dopplegangland... really fun episode. Alyson Hannigan plays Willow, vampire Willow, Willow playing vampire Willow and vampire Willow playing Willow - and she makes all four of those roles specifically different, down to her body language and the way she carries herself. This just in: She's a really good actress.
In Dopplegangland, the fact that the Mayor provides Faith with a NICE place to stay, compared to the Watchers and the Scoobies not seeming to care that she was living in a fleabag motel...I mean, Faith rightfully felt she was treated poorly.
That's a good point to bring up. The Mayor's already showing he cares more about her (regardless of his motives) than the Scoobies have.
YES!! It's always bothered me that none of them offered her a place to stay. Not Giles, not Joyce. It's so sad. Not to mention we don't even know how she was getting the money to pay for the motel.
@@docsavage8640 counter-question - why doesn't the Watchers Council owe "the Slayers" SOMETHING to compensate them for putting their lives on the line and spending their time and energy fighting evil?
@@docsavage8640It's not a matter of owing her anything. It's a matter of being hospitable. She's also a Slayer, after all.
@@docsavage8640
She’s there to save the world from evil. Cops get a salary just for saving the world from muggers.
The Watcher’s Council is a whole multi-millenial institution supposedly there to support and guide the slayer. They claim she’s their weapon against evil, yet GIs get better accommodations, room, board, healthcare, training, etc., and they’re not treated all that well. So they seem to be using her-for free.
It’s at least enough to question their values and agenda. Especially after Buffy’s birthday. At least Kendra’s watcher provided a home of sorts. It’s not explicitly stated that Faith breaks the law to support herself but it could be inferred from Bad Girls that she probably doesn’t have a problem with that.
It just seems decent that someone who the fate of the world may rest, has a decent amount of support. Now perhaps there’s a stipend of some kind where she’s able to afford the motel room and food. It’s never been stated so far. Maybe that’s enough, usually. But you also pay people for loyalty to make sure they don’t find better offers. I wonder how often they lose slayers to situations like this? She just got a promotion working for evil. That must seem nice.
Sure you could say no one “owes” her anything. By the same token you could say she doesn’t owe anyone else anything either. The hope is that people will at least respect each other’s humanity and show basic respect. That didn’t happen for Faith so she makes her decisions based on that.
Faith is spiraling. Mentally, she's already past what she perceives as the point of no return. So she just embraces the her new reality because she can see no way back.
So the actor Alexis Denisof who plays the new watcher Wesley got married in 2003 to Allison Hannigan who plays Willow. As far as I know they are still married today with 2 kids, 2 kids probably in their teens to late teens by now!
I believe this show is where they met!
Faith's arc is fantastic and the hints at this happening have been there all season. It's a fantastic exploration of how a decent person can be overcome by their trauma, make the wrong choices and truly destroy everything.
You don't need to imagine the genders reversed with Faith assaulting Xander. She's much much stronger than him and even at the time I think it was clearly depicted as an assault. I also do think Faith's armor was cracking with Angel, he was starting to get through, but it would have taken some more time. Wesley completely bulldozed that chance.
Faith is a really interesting character who clearly has trauma and grief and abandonment in her history. I believe she has experienced terrible powerlessness in her past before she was handed a bunch of power, and it becomes an addiction. Combined with her sense of shame and feeling like she's "bad" (also indicates trauma), her spiral makes sense. No spoilers, but getting some more of Faith's journey is one great reason to include Angel in your plans to continue watching the Buffyverse.
Watching Faith attempt to SA and murder Xander was horrifying but your right this isn't really a turn in her character it's an unravelling of who she is.
2 great episodes, imo! Season 3 is so strong ❤
Season 3 is *the strongest!* 😍
It's my favorite season with 5 being a close second.
Should note that Wesley is very young as far as watchers go, nothing like Giles. Wesley still talks about being "Headboy" later in the series, because he's not so far out of school that he still references school. Not saying it's okay, but while the actors playing HS kids are actually adults, Wesley is a young guy playing a fresh out of school aged guy. So I see it as "less creepy". I mean, it's still not awesome, but it's not like 30 yr old and 15yr old. It's more 18-early 20's...where there is a much smaller gap physically than there is mentally.
In 'Consequences,' I believe she is excited by the violence, and that excitement leads to sex. In the military, I have seen this in men and women. The adrenaline created in dangerous situations is a high that most people do not understand. Faith seems to thrive on this, and sex is a common outlet for these feelings.
"I hope evil takes Mastercard." I love Faith.
Cordelia is either 18, or close to it. Wesley is in his 20s. That was far from uncommon when I was young, in the 90s. When I was in high school, there were very few girls, over 16, that were still dating high school guys. Most girls Cordelia's age were dating guys in their early 20s. Even if Wesley is in his later 20s, it would have been less socially acceptable, but not totally uncommon.
It's still very common. And why wouldn't it be?
@@TheRealGSmith A lot of reaction channels seem to make a big deal about these types of age differences. Since most of them are young, I was assuming that it has become less common.
@@keithvincenttucker9923 It's still a thing, sadly. I don't know why. Confusing age with power or confusing having power with using power are just dangerous misconceptions. I guess everyone simply has things that make them uncomfortable though.
Technically she already dated a 22 year old last season, ala Reptile Boy lol
“Why does she look like Chucky?” 😂 😆
Dopplegangland is one of the funniest episodes of the entire series. Alyson just kills it.
Faith is a deeply damaged human being due to everything she's been through, but she's still my favorite character and Wesley really is responsible for what happens next! Angel could have helped Faith I think, and got her on the right track. It's also very telling she didn't let Buffy die, even though she is so clearly jealous of her and the position she has a slayer. At the end of the day Faith honestly is just a child.
"Amy is still a rat?! How long has it been?" 👀
poor amy lol
I've heard that the show writers actually weren't aware of just how short a rat's lifespan is. LOL Better do something soon, Willow!
@@gungho1284 I don't think that matters, they can just say "it's magic, she still has a human lifespan."
People forget that the first episode she was in Faith tried to fight Buffy just because Buffy wasn't having as much fun as her in Slaying. She's never been all-together psychologically.
Fatih can’t drop out of school: she never enrolled in the first place - she just hangs out there … lol
CONSEQUENCES
This is an episode that really adds layers to how The Watcher's Counsel and how messed up they are as an organization. Willow will never fully be over her feelings for Xander, he's literally her first love.
Yeah if Xander or Angel were the ones holding a girl down there'd be some issues, it is a double standard that women rarely acknowledge but here even as a guy it was uncomfortable because you can tell this wasn't kinky stuff she was starting to spiral out of control. But yeah it wasn't something that people complained about. And as it shows you're trying to understand what Faith must've went through, but if it were a guy you wouldn't even give it a thought, you'd just see him as a rapist, not someone who might've been victimized. Faith wasn't raised by the Counsel like Kendra and she didn't have a stable home life like Buffy (even with divorced parents), so she doesn't know how to handle her emotions. Her conscious and her upbringing are at odds and we can see some of it here.
I like the dynamic between Faith and Angel and how they have a connection. Faith was actually listening to Angel, Wesley screwed it up.
DOPPLEGANGLAND
So much greatness here, we get a bit of foreshadowing with Willow. I love the genuine relationship between the Mayor and Faith. He's evil but we see what's left of his humanity when he's speaking with Faith. It's obvious from the "sugar daddy" comment that Faith has been sexually abused and used and the Mayor is the first guy who rejects that and isn't using her like that. It's important to note that because that's the hold he has on her, she's finally found love from someone who wants nothing in return (in her mind). The idea of sending Vamp Willow back to her world I don't agree with, essentially they sent her back to just keep killing people in her world. I understand from a Willow standpoint but Buffy should've killed her, thankfully she dies anyway.
Earshot is a hell of an episode, Enemies is good too and does set up future stuff
Remember how Giles reacted to the events leading to Angel losing his soul last season? Of course he's going to be understanding of Buffy, rather than judging her critically.
"Giles can tell me to do anything" You realise how this sounds, right?
Allyson Hannigan is such an amazing actress.
Tbh I think Mayor Wilkins and Alan were actually friends.
i’m not so sure, I thought it was implied that Alan was going to find the slayers to tell them about the mayors plans? Though I do think the mayor thought of them was friendly
@@Ibeabutterfly oh he 100% was going to tell them.
There is a novel called "Go ask Malice". I think it was released around 2005. It shows the backstory of Faith. After I finished reading it was easier for me to understand Faiths character. Her whole life through she had bad experiences with family, men etc.
Drawnonwardfilms makes a number of great points in their post below. I'll add one other item that has always struck me, the contrast in control between Buffy and Faith. In "Bad Girls", Buffy tries to save the mayor's assistant by yelling "Faith, No!" yet Faith is unable to stop the stake. In "Doppelgangland", as Buffy is about to end vampire-Williow, "our" Willow yells "Buffy, No!" and Buffy immediately halts the attack. It didn't help vampire-Willow in the end, but that was simply a humorous bow to tie around bringing the alternate world back into alignment.
Thanks, Cass, I always enjoy your reactions.
Unfortunately, the worst thing that you can do in a situation like "Consequences" is to "come clean" with the police and Joyce even allowing the detective to question Buffy without a lawyer present is bad form. And to question Faith without a lawyer and an advocate onhand would get whatever case he COULD build thrown out by the DA before it could ever go to trial.
I just now came up with a theory as to why Faith was choking Xander. Could it be that she was willing to kill until she no longer felt remorse, something that Angel alluded to?
At worst, Faith committed a degree of involuntary manslaughter. As a juvenile/youthful offender, she would be very unlikely to be charged at the highest degree. Even if convicted, she would not go to prison but be placed on probation and most likely be remanded to a psychological exam, counseling and placed in a foster care/halfway house.
Had Giles or Wesley acted like adults, instead of pissing in each other's Cheerios, or the Council not left her on the street in a fleabag motel without support(how did she pay rent/eat?), or Angel not played junkie interventionist(not everyone a vicious monster, or a worthless layabout, Liam) or Buffy not acted like a spoiled only child/jealous Slayer...
Instead a priceless asset has been forfeited and now she's an incredibly dangerous loose cannon.
I really enjoy how you take the time to understand the characters’ thought processes. This is a deep show where people make decisions that make sense for their characters (…99% of the time), so it’s great to see you taking the time to understand that.
Faith would’ve killed Xander, walked away like nothing happened, and said her life was five by five.
Now that I've watched both, a couple comments.
Re. Cordelia and Wesley, the obsession with power dynamics didn't exist back then, but even if you take that approach, there are multiple avenues of comparison. If you're talking age, sure, Wes has it. But if you're talking EQ, Wesley is pretty naive. He clearly is out of his depth as a watcher and knows it, and he doesn't give off "romantically experienced" vibes. Cordy is experienced, knows herself, has confidence and strength, and is aggressive going after what she wants. And she is clearly interested in cute, young, English guy. I'm not saying either has anything much more than a "wow, pretty" hormonal attraction going on, but the naif English guy doesn't stand a chance if queen bee Cordy decides do go after him.
I was really amused at when you stopped the scene to say "imagine if the genders were reversed right now. It's sad..." because Joss makes "this isn't sexy it's assault" explicit when she starts strangling Xander three seconds later. I think it's really a subversion of the "when a girl does it to a guy it's sexy" trope. You get that as well once you restart the video, but where you stopped it was like the worst point in that shot to stop to do an analysis since it shift right after. Hence, amusing point to stop.
As to why, I suspect Faith was living on the streets, with all that can imply, when Dru killed Kendra, and given how quickly her watcher got killed she hasn't been in a safe place for a long time. I suspect some of her response to killing the deputy mayor is emotional numbness given her background, and some is the Gen X "never show you give a shit" attitude. I don't think she would have killed Xander, but I also think she was having an out of body experience and realized she both really could kill him and wondering why she was doing it. I think that's what her expression right before Angel knocks her out means.
Or I could be completely off the mark and am reading too much into what I see in Eliza's performance.
I also think Angel was getting through to her. Again, reading into Eliza's nonverbal performance.
Dopplegangland, and Vamp Willow, is just a joy. And it really cemented "bored now" in my vocabulary. :D
I think Faith is so ashamed and feels so worthless deep down that killing someone was the boiling point for her and now she feels not worthy of saving so the only thing she can do is dive off the deep end in the opposite direction - so yes I think she would've liked Xander. When she says "we were just playing" it couldn't look anything more than a bold face lie.
Charisma (who is 28 or 29 at this point) is 4 years younger than Alexis, btw & I think that's supposed to be roughly the gap between Wesley & Cordelia. Although I could be mistaken, it's never made entirely clear how long he's been out of the academy & whether one graduates that academy at high school age (18) or university age (22). Regardless, Angel was 27 when he got vamped so...
So, I completely forgot about it until now, but during the second season of Veronica Mars, Alyson Hannigan and Charisma Carpenter are both part of the cast and their interactions with each other are so weird and fun considering their history on Buffy. Also...I just found out that Alyson Hannigan and Alexis Denisof (Wesley) are married IRL. which is sorta blowing my mind right now.
Yeah, this is how they met, and they've said they were mutually interested at first, but there were hurdles - she was seeing someone at the time, and then when she wasn't, he or she or both were reluctant at that point to get involved with someone they were working with.
Aly and Alexis just celebrated their 20th anniversary last year.
Yes! I almost feel like the things that Alyson's character in VM was saying to Charisma's was all the things Willow wanted to say to Cordelia but couldn't. 😅
I love them on Veronica Mars.
Dopplegangland was always popular with people. One of my favorites when I was a teenager watching in the beginning. I would even reimaginge myself in that character but make it my own, literally roleplaying in the mirror. I had a vivid imagination as a teen and in my 20s too. Fun fun.
doppelgangland is a one episode that I love so much.
"Bored now" so iconic
Doppelganger is also a slang term for people that look alike. Zooey Deschanel and Katy Perry, for example.
Well, not just slang. Doppelgänger is literally the German word for someone who looks just like someone else.
Of course Angel "stalks." He is a vampire which is to say that he's an obligate predator, even when ensouled.
(Cordy would be 18, Wes would be around 24 going off uk ages to finish a university degree (21-22), plus some extra study and work experience)
Yes, Faith would definitely kill Xander.
I don't have much to say other than I'm obsessed with your Buffy videos and the way you analyze the episodes/characters/writing. Thanks for the great video! :)
Yeah, I miss Trick, too. They could have done a lot more with him.
Faith had a pretty good idea of Xander's experience.
He literally told her.
First word: accessory, rest of it: after the fact🙃
Good catch on the Buffy/Faith "No Stop" contrast.
I think Dopplegangland was another great episode from S3 and always a fan favourite with 'Vampire Willow' back again great foreshadowing here too , and great comedy moments too when Willow puts on the leather outfit and looks so awkward trying to act tough and evil. The fight scenes from S3 onwards improve so much you can see the show getting slicker and more polished. Great reactions again to the last two 'Double Bangers!' I can see how you guys are now really appreciating the quality of writing and storylines as the series progresses. BTW regarding Wesley and Cordelia we have to remember Cordelia is now 18, and Wesley is not a teacher at the school, so all very legal and OK. However it was never explained how Wesley as an unauthorised person was able to just float around the school at will. That being said, even though he was not liked by fans at first, he proves to be a much loved and brilliant character.
There is some heavy stuff in Consequences. And a lot of questions that are difficult to answer. I do think if Angel had had more time with Faith, he might have been able to get through to her, though even then, he was projecting some of himself on her. The "She has a taste for it now," comment. That was Angel talking about himself.
Faith choking Xander, it is hard to say for sure if she would have killed him all the way if they hadn't gotten interrupted. I do not believe she did that because "she had a taste for [murder]" though. I think she was choking him, in part to see if she really could do it. When she killed the Deputy Mayor, that was an accident. It is entirely possible that she may have let go of Xander as soon as, or just before, he passed out.
I have mentioned before how Xander self-sabotage because of his abusive family background, he doesn't think he deserves good things. Faith also had an abusive background. "My dead mother hits harder than you," wasn't just an expression. There was a kind of passion in that where it was true. Her mother hit her as a child. I personally think the abuse is even worse than that. Faith doesn't self-sabotage, like Xander though, because she doesn't think that she doesn't deserve good things, rather she thinks she is bad. So, she does bad things to prove that she deserves the punishment she anticipates getting. Then she gets that punishment which validates the low self-image of herself that she has. She is trapped in a cycle, she is told she's bad, gets punished, then she feels like she is bad and deserves to be punished so she does something bad, gets told she is bad and is punished for it. So, Choking Xander was not about fulfilling the taste Angel thought she had, but rather about getting punished like she feels she should be.
We can also see signs of Faith's abuse in her choice of inappropriate sexual partners where emotion and pleasure are not part of the equation of why she chose them. There are many who think that Faith is bisexual, that she has an attraction to Buffy. And there are definitely signs that she is attracted to Buffy. The affectionate nickname, asking Buffy to the Homecoming dance, blowing her a heart in the classroom window... But I wonder if instead of being bi, if she is actually just gay. One would counter this with the fact that she sleeps with so many men, but I would say that she sleeps with inappropriate men, never because she is attracted to them, and never to get pleasure. Which ties back into her abuse as a child which I think was not just physical, but also sexual. As a gay woman what could be more inappropriate of sexual partners for her then men.
31:18 ...I love the fact that in Season 1, Angel address the fact that he has no breath, and yet, in this scene, he's out of breath...
Consistency? Who is consistency? My name is Guy Incognito
That was an integral plot point that gave Xander a purpose, but it's mostly forgotten now. I don't dwell on it though.
@@jmwild1 I watched this show too many times for me to ignore it😅
@@paulieluppino1856 Me too, I just go with the flow. There are more lore mishaps to come.
Rewatch the season one episode, he's out of breath running in the scene right before the commercial break before he says this line.
Awesome reaction. You pick up on so much so quickly! One comment really had me excited for future episodes.
Eliza was actually 17 when she filmed this season, so she was underage
How cool is it that a fantasy based work of fiction can make us feel the things that this program does?
A little BTVS trivia, but remember that the actors portrayed are older in real life before I share. Willow and Wesley are married with children in the real world.
Yeah, contextually the age stuff with the high school students is weird; and yet, Charisma Carpenter would have been around 28, almost 29 when they did this episode. She's literally the same age Robia LaMorte who played Jenny Calendar; and arguably by this point in the series, Cordelia/Charisma looked least like a high school student and more genuinely like she was one of the teachers.
Also of note there's a four year gap between Charisma and Alexis, she's playing 18 and he's playing early to mid 20s, given his absolute lack of experience as a watcher. She was almost 29 and he was 33.
Also, I feel like it was a lot more "accepted" back then as compared to now because it was a heavily used trope across sitcoms, dramas, and YA to push student/teacher, college/high schooler, older/younger relationships, but "Buffy" never shied away from constantly highlighting ages, so it stands out more and more on rewatches.
But if you really go back and look at some of those old shows, it was a really common happening... too common.
@@cajah88 I wouldn't say that the majority of the media of the time considered it "accepted" behavior. There were certainly cases where it was romanticized in real world settings, but it was just as wrong then as today (in some cases, illegal too). One thing that was definitely hyped back then was the male student fantasizing about the female teacher, something that's a lot more frowned upon today (and taken a lot more seriously).
@@jmwild1 My usage of "accepted" is more to highlight how common the trope was used across the media for a long time, not necessarily the portrayal of it or people's feelings towards it. Even if we look at teen media that came after or near the end of "Buffy," you have shows like "Degrassi" that played into it several times, "Riverdale," "Glee," "Pretty Little Liars," "The OC," and even "South Park" lampooned the trope. It just seems to always pop up, especially in shows with a teenage demo. Even "Saved by the Bell" was messing with that trope around the college years.
@@jmwild1AND he has no role of authority over Cordelia, as being a watcher doesn't make him automatically a Sunnydale High Librarian. He's just some geeky guy that hangs out in the library, perfectly normally.
I think Consequences was a brilliant, but disturbing episode. Even though Xander had lost his virginity in The Zeppo, we still see his Innocence here where Faith sexually assaults him, and tries to choke him to death. The juxtaposition here is brilliant writing where Faith is the one with power, and Xander is the helpless innocent, showing that sexual assault and murder are crimes of power over the vulnerable. Brilliant writing again. She has the power 'I see, I want, I take' Xander proves here his is still somewhat innocent, even though in The Zeppo he became more grown up and adult. An interesting line is drawn here with later episodes, as Faith has a soul and is deliberately acting like this in a fully conscious way. It shows here that sexual assault and murder are crimes of power over the innocent and vulnerable irrespective. Faith is now 'drunk' on power, and just thinks she can do what she wants to anyone, and there will be no Consequences! Teaming up with the Mayor catapults the show into the stratosphere, the build up from now until the two part Finale is totally brilliant.
There is no mandate to report what you witnessed, so for that Buffy wouldn't have to face any charges what so ever. What makes it a bit more complex though is that both her and Faith where out slaying vamps in that alley and that could be seen as them doing something illegal (a prosecutor might see it as they where out assaulting people, ignoring vamps that don't exist) and if so then under California law she could be charged with felony murder (which is a law that they have there that makes any murder your responsibility if you are doing a felony [which includes if the police shoots your accomplice, for which "murder" you could be charged with]).
Consequences:
You hit the nail on the head with Wesley and Cordelia; I'm so glad they didn't use appropriate age actors... But why have it in at all? Make Wesley really creepy?
After everything that happens, Buffy didn't immediately go to Giles?
Willow, shut up. Buffy can't have other friends? Want to go out with other people?
Apparently, in the last episode, when Buffy went to Faith's to talk about what happened, the original plan was that Faith had hanged herself, but the audience responded so well to her that they kept her in.
You have such a gentle, hopeful heart, Cass! I believe Faith would've choked him out, then freaked and run away. But she sounds like she's had a rough life, traumatic in places, at a young age and her mind has fought back by using her strength to make her feel powerful. Triumphing over her enemies, over men, her reflection in Buffy... So she went to someone who wouldn't make her feel like a monster and would fulfil that dark temptation. I reckon it was 50/50 that she'd return to Angel though.
Doppelgangland:
Last episode, Giles knew immediately when Faith was lying, now she's undercover extraordinaire?
It's interesting how some people only feel sad if a character actually dies, and others feel sad even if they know the character isn't dead by seeing the grief of their loved ones. Either way, the scene of the gang grieving for Willow didn't ring true for me. Remember their reactions to Jenny's death? Willow was way closer to them.
Oz looking extra hot this episode, says my teenage self.
It threw me a bit to have her not end up doing a two-parter in her two episode a video format.
Faith Lehane's former Watcher did not "pass," They were brutally murdered by Kakistos. That does make a difference and from what we have seen of Kendra's background the Watcher was most likely a parental figure who trained her for this post and inculcated a sociopathic presentation in their charge.
Anya is really funny.
As far as Cordelia and Wesley's ages, Cordy would be 17 here while Wes just graduated Watcher college. If we assume its 4 year academy, he'd be around 22.
Buffy turned 18 four episodes ago, so it's entirely possible Cordelia is also 18 (and as such, an adult) by now.
@@stormwreath I was basing her age off of her literally being referred to as she underage jail bait in this episode. 🤷♀️ Maybe faith just doesn't know how old cordy is.
IMHO Faith would have killed Xander there, look at how bruised his neck is in the later scene, that is "I was this close to die" bruises, not "we happened to have violent sex" bruises.
You skipped over it here, but I love the line when Willow says, "And I think I'm kind of gay. (in reference to VampWillow)." Angel is about to say something and Buffy cuts him off.
Willows reaction to Xander I feel like is layered. I do think she truly loves Oz, but Xander is her first love, her best friend, and she was kind of being left behind. Buffy's had sex, now Xander has had sex. I cried when my best friend lost her virginity, it was weird. It was like wait no we're growing up, I'm not ready to grow up and it got weird between us because she experianced something without me. I was much younger and naive and sensative about all that stuff but then she sort of became "too cool" for me afterward. So I get theres like jealousy, feeling of betrayal cause Xander chose the school bully over her (Cordeilia) and then chooses Faith and she can never be like them or have what they have, we had her getting picked over by Buffy too. Idk. I totally get why Willow cried.
36:11 great pickup. Many miss that
I'm disappointed that some of the comments about Faith are getting spoilery. I love seeing Cass's raw unspoiled reaction to the show.
Same.
Fantastic reaction. You're incredibly perceptive as to Faith's character. She's one of the most fascinating characters in the whole series.
It cracks me up how many people are uncomfortable wit 18 Cordy and mid 20s weskey yet were totally cool with 16 Buffy and 240+ Angel.
i am not a fan of buffy and angel😭 i stopped talking about it bc it would cause people to yell at me in the comments lol
@@officialcassreacts i got you. I just see a lot of it and never understand. Dont really see the issue there as the age difference isnt hig and despite what some people mistakenly believe he doesnt work at the school.
Dopplegangland is also one of my favorite episodes. Anya is one of my favorite characters and this episode really showcases her a bit more and gets into her motivations and personality more than her introduction episode did.
But right along with her is Evil Alternate Willow as far as favorite characters go. I love the whole “Who do you work for?” scene. In fact, I had an ex who used to play act that scene out complete with finger bending when she wanted to ask a favor. Lol
90s teen girls seeing vampire Willow in that getup: I think I'm kinda gay
Willow definitely has some rememberable outfits in Dopplegangland. So cute, and wicked.
*Not "another universe," but more like a "wibbly-wobbly point in time that only exists in an infinitesimal moment between seconds, that span it's simultaneous creation and cessation of existence". Because the crux of "The Wish" is that Anya literally altered reality - change time, so that the alternate reality exists in place of it. That Cordelia died there or Giles destroyed the necklace wouldn't matter if it existed as a separate universe that continued concurrently with the conventional reality; because then that wasn't _really_ Cordelia and never was; she'd just always continue existing in the normal reality, with her wish never being granted. Wishverse-Giles would have no gain destroying Anya's power center, as that reality would continue to be bad. And Anya wouldn't need to get her necklace back, because thathappened to an alternate reality Anyanka.
Can't think of much to add to what's already been posted (my fault for going off line early yesterday 😁), but I wanted to make a point of saying how much I appreciate the way you take time to mull over the characters, in these episodes Faith and Willow. I especially admire your thinking through Faith. She needs a lot of consideration and I can't think of another reactor (I've watched a bunch of them) who's been as thoughtful as you have. No spoilers, of course, but you'll be able to come back to this reaction and feel proud of some of your insights on her.
Always happy to see this in my feed
Willow looks more like Mario at the beginning of Consequences
As always, awesome reaction Cass! ❤
Faith, no question, is assaulting Xander.
she didnt question that...
@@RoseJackson1607 I know, I typed that before she said it, right after she said "imagine if the genders were reversed." But I figured I would leave the comment there for anyone who might have thought otherwise.
murder is wrong
There's another reactor I watch who seems to consistently be unable to see men as victims (at least when a woman is involved), and who's takeaway from that scene was "I felt like they were going for this 'sexy seductress' type of thing, but it didn't land" and had to later be told it was sexual assault
@@Zso-VIII which reactor is that
I am certain that you are going to come to love Anyanka, as we all have.
Anya 🫶🏻
Cass, I'm loving your breakdown of Faith's character. I like your insights into the person she is and what she's been through 👍. Peel those layers lol.
I love your critique of Faith's character, especially how you acknowledge how Faith's past damaged her, but it doesn't excuse her.
I also really liked your observation that Faith uses sex as a distraction. Ultimately, Faith has been through so much that she can't bear analyzing her own place in life or her sins.
I think that's why she turns to the Mayor. He doesn't ask her to examine things that she can't bear to. He simply appreciates her in the now, and rewards her for being a person who avoids introspection.
One of the things Willow had in common with Xander was that they were both virgins. I think she was mourning that in the stall as much as anything else.
prepare clinex
In reality, Alexis is four years older than Charisma and 8 years older than his wife, Alyson Hannigan. Alexis turned 33 two days before Dopplegangland aired. I have no idea how old his character is supposed to be. 18 is the age of consent in CA, but I think it is 17 in England, where Wesley is from. Alexis was born and raised in the US but attended college and worked for a few years in London.
Based on my memories, my theory was that Faith is a reactionary/contrarian. Her instincts/defense mechanism is to do the opposite of what you want her to do if you put pressure on her. And Buffy's way of dealing with Faith is consistently exactly what sets Faith off going the opposite way. And then Wesley just totally screwed the pooch with her. She may have actually killed Xander if not for Angel. Faith turned to the Mayor, the other person in Sunnydale happy to be above the law.
I wish you didn't get previously on clips. Dopplegangland had some needed humor after the previous episode.
This episode led to one of the funniest things I ever read on the old Buffy Bronze. There was something called WITT (Whedon Interactive Theater Troup) where someone would start a story and other peole could join in, as long as they don't end it without talking to the people who started it first.
This WITT began with a post from the county coroner's office from where one Bronzer lived announcing his death. The time was known as his massive heart attack caused him to crush his remote stopping the tape at the moment Evil Willow licked Willow. (He had a massive crush on Alyyson.) They were unable to do an autopsy because one of his petsonas was Superman. Then his wife posted giving more of the ridiculous abd hysterical details. The next day was the "Revivication of RTBS" WITT. I can't begin to explain that. At one point there was a good robot version and an evil robot version of him who faught each other. He was briefly turned into a cow. Eventually he was revived abd given Britney Spears as compensation for his brief death. Somehow that wasn't actually creepy. I'm actually laughing just remembering the bits of it I could keep up with as at least 20 people were telling the story simultaneously with little off-screen contact. I wish I knew where a copy of that coukd be found.
Age of consent in the UK is actually 16 which, now that I'm older, seems too young.
@leniloubettyboopbossyboots247 I remember a few years ago people being freaked out about The Beatles singing I Saw Her Standing There which said she was 17. I had to explain that 17 was legal, and at thst point, John and Paul were only around 21. Young enough to have been in s cool with her previously. I think people firgit hiw young they were at thst point. Paul writing that now would be a different story.
@@johncampbell756 It would indeed!
You've been delusional about Faith from the beginning 😆
It would be disappointing if willow & Wesley got together