How Most of the World Teaches Regulator Recovery is Dangerous
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 พ.ย. 2024
- There are really three schools of thought on teaching regulator recovery:
1. Taught while kneeling
2. Taught Neutrally Buoyant
3. Neutrally Buoyant while switching to your alternate air source
We at Prana Dive, as well as those who developed the training materials for Dive RAID International, believe the safest way is to teach it the way we dive, neutrally buoyant, while switching to the AAS instead of blowing bubbles and searching for the lost reg.
Our student Luke does the skills each of the three ways and Turk breaks it down.
Camera: Olympus PEN E-PL7
Editing and Color Correction: Davinci Resolve 18
#amedbali #davinciresolve #olympus #scubadiving #scubaskills #regulatorrecovery @scuba #underwatervideography
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That makes so much more sense. You know where your Alt is, pop it in, start breathing, then go look for your primary. Much thx!
My pleasure. Glad you enjoyed it.
Nice. I learned to dive in the early 70's. We didn't use alternate air then. Just a primary. Learned multiple ways of recovery from different positions. The more you know how, the better accomplished you become. Nowadays, using an alternate air is another good way to recover. But, don't neglect the other methods, your alternate air may be dangling behind you cause it wasn't secured or maybe it also got caught up in something.
This is how the army still teaches at least up until 2005 when I got out. My understanding is that recovery is meant if your 2nd stage yanked out. The immediate response should be to blow bubbles continuously. The alternate Air Force is only for emergencies.
Or if you have an alternate air / power inflator you can switch to it. Which is what is taught during an out-of-air buddy air sharing exercise. A lot of people have gone to alternate air / inflator setup to streamline their rigs.
This is where a second stage on a necklace around your neck shines, like how you would find in a Hogarthian/long hose configuration. You have your secondary second stage right next to your neck, ready at all times.
The problem with the more "recreational" short hose configuration is that there isnt a standard location for your secondary regulator. People have it in a BCD pocket like your student does, but sometimes its on some form of occy holder (with different degrees of difficulty to unwind), and its location varied from BCD to BCD and person to person. Of course this can be mitigated with practice and knowing your gear, but can be problematic if you are renting gear, or make a modification.
What I do like about this method is that it keeps people more aware of their secondary regulator. Which is also very useful for when they have to share air, they wont me mucking around trying to remember where it is, or how to deploy it.
Great to see instructors making students practise all skills neutrally buoyant and in trim!
We agree about the longhose, primary donate setup. As for the location of the alternate air source, as long as it is in the "golden triangle" it is supposed to be ok but this does lead to people not knowing how to quickly access the AAS.
Interesting topic this and worthy of a good group discussion. Perhaps a little online colab is what we need? I guess the question is why we do this skill in the first place. When neutrally buoyant, you can see poor Luke has to throw the reg behind him to get it from hanging right in front of his face - How in real life would that every happen? BSAC teach it kneeling and I've challenged that. The answer I got, it's not really about retrieving a reg, it's about teaching the student that they are not going to die instantly if their reg comes out. By giving them the "task" of retrieving their reg, you're taking their mind off the fact they no longer have an air source for a few seconds and building that confidence in a Mr Miagi kind of way. Personally, and probably the primary reason I'm doing my cross over instructor to RAID, I think this setup is wholly outdated - The octo should die - Single cylinder long hose primary and necklaced backup should be the way the industry is taking recreational setups. It's a better designed system for real life actual OOA situations, none of this silly chucking your reg behind your back and as you say, why not use the spare reg you have - and why shouldn't it be located in a place more easy to locate? Hit me up if a colab sounds good! Subbed 👍
I agree 100%. We will be reaching out soon for that collab as well.
I stopped Teaching Octo 5 years ago, after confirming with NAUI that I could teach Longh hose in OW. Then I switched to TDI/SDI and teach long hose exclusively. I get a lot of Refresher courses from Parents now, when they see the wisdom of the long hose and how their kids perform.
i agree with you your regulator is you primary air source not the octo. Making thing easy while practicing will not make you a safer diver. You rather know the hard way to face futur problems that might occur.
Thats interesting. I recently question the BSAC pre-requisite of twinset for long hose workshop. Initially I was told it wasn't a pre-requisite, and then I was told "this is BSAC policy" and its only offerred as an option for twinset courses...... I didn't get an answer as to why its only an option with a twinset course; just a "this is our policy response".
@@nickhavard1522thats because a hog loop will result in immediate death, don't ya know! /Sarcasam/
Absolutely, couldn`t agree more. Padi & SSI are outdated there.
Why do skills in a kneeing position, when you`re never diving in that position?
And why you recover a lost reg, as if that wouldn`t be out for a reason.
Maybe it go kicked out, maybe the mouthpiece came loose, maybe it got stuck somewhere, what so ever.
Switch to your alternate, then fix the problem.
Way easier, way faster, way safer.
PADI changed and does not want students kneeling during skills. So things have changed, just not everyone knows.
Can’t agree more, to be honest I think PADI is not that professional as I thought, especially when I study the e-learning, there are so many typing error / translation problems
First off - for him only learning to dive - that buoyancy is pretty on point which tells me that the instructor knows how to teach the right way. However there is one thing that could improve this skill even further and the way I got taught it - having a DIR configuration with an alternate regulator on a necklace and the primary on a long hose or even as simple change as having the student breathe from the octo normally and having the alternate on his neck and not hanging about which gives you a lot more confidence about placement of the regulator even when panic starts to set in. Such configuration also has a lot more benefits like being 100% sure where your alternate is after having your primary kicked out or snatched by an air starved diver.
As the instructor, thank you for the compliment. It is much appreciated. As for the DIR configuration, I agree that it is a better config but most of the world is still diving the standard recreational reg setup. I prefer primary donate with a longhose and bungeed backup. Having said that, when teaching vacation divers who only ever rent gear,, they will likely never see that type of setup.
As with all skills there is many ways to do things the more options you have the better for different situations. I like your use of a student for the demonstrations as they more closely simulate the emotional reaction of a diver in a real situation. Many of the training videos are shot in tropical waters with minimal equipment this makes all skills easier. When wearing a drysuit or diving in cold waters with heavy hood/gloves it makes things much more difficult, so grabbing the ALT air source to breathe from makes more sense as it takes more mental acuity to feel the reg hose or grab the primary regulator with a gloved hand, also it can get caught behind your back or tangled on something which makes recovery more difficult.
This is how I learned as well. I was also taught an alternative to the sweep by the leg, to sweeping by your ear. top hose should be primary. I have longer arms, so that is my preferred method in my VERY short diving career :). Both my son and I like training - whether it is in cycling, with firearms, etc. - we plan to treat scuba exactly the same. We have plenty of places to dive here in FL - fresh and saltwater. But we do enjoy just training and practicing as well, it is fun but also helps to avoid the accident train when it comes rolling through.
The swipe by the ear is what we call the "reach method" and it works for some and not so well for others.
Turk used to work in Florida, in Lauderdale by the Sea. Keep doing what you are doing. Practicing on every dive is a great thing.
PADI all the way to Advanced - then RAID for Deep 40 - methodologies an absolute game-changer
So I am a raid instructor; have taught this as well. Draw backs I’ve found is that this reg recovery couldn’t be performed if your buddy were using the alternate air source which is most often when it would be deployed, the second is that adding an extra step can (NOT ALWAYS) induce more anxiety in a diver that is panicking. I’ve found best practice is to teach them BOTH ways to ensure they are as confident in all situations
We have not noticed either of those but we appreciate the observations based on your experience.
As for the extra step, we have actually found throughout our teaching that switching to AAS reduces the anxiety a new diver gets. They can easily find it, take a couple sanity breaths and then solve the problem.
@@pranadive oh absolutely, more often than not the sanity breaths help; but every once in a while I find a student who is happier to move straight into the recovery of the primary
I like the video, and that is how I teach it, too. I never understood why it was done another way. In case of a real emergency, the diver who learned it this way will always have air. The person who does make bubbles and can’t recover will panic, make an emergency ascent, and not remember at this moment that he has an octopus. I asked this question to all advanced students who did their basic training elsewhere, and they even told me this.
Totally agree. When you lost a reg shown in your video it some times doesn’t work . What happens panic sets in . We all know where we placed the alternate reg is . As your student showed a few breaths once he found his second stage he change over . Simple. Nice video 👍
I (Turk) agree with 100%. The possibility of panic when a reg gets ripped out is real. The "I will just calmly blow bubbles and find it" is not very realistic for new divers or those who do not dive regularly. We are glad you enjoyed the video.
Doing my IE in a couple of days. Just found your video... It makes totally sense... Great idea!
I wish you the best of success on your IE
excellent totally logical. if you lost your primary reg you might be in a panic situation. if your first instinct is to grab your octo and calm down before looking for your primary in a panicked situation you're better off.
This makes way more freaking sense when I was doing my open water course and we went down to the platform. We had to get on our knees, and when I asked that doesn’t make any sense to me because when will I ever be on my knees looking for my regulatorand in the military you train as you would fight so going neutral buoyant makes way more sense
I really like this method. Makes a lot of sense for safety reasons. There is another variation where you use your right arm and reach for your first stage and then find the hose, run your hand along it till you get to your 2nd stage and then can place that back in your mouth. However, the issue with that is not everyone is not everyone has the flexibility to reach their first stage. So this method definitely is the quickest to get them back under control and reduces the risks.
Great job sharing this advice and also, bravo Luke for the demo - was nice to see a student demo instead of an instructor one for a change.
P.S. my monkey brain had a shooting game flashback where it tells you “switching to your secondary is faster than reloading your primary”, I suppose the same goes with scuba now too 😅
I am glad you enjoy this method. I also teach the variation you describe which is the "reach" method and I agree that it is not for everyone, just like diving twinsets is not for everyone due to some having mobility issues.
Glad you liked the student doing the demo. I believe the industry needs more of this. When instructors do it, it looks simple. When an actual student does it, it shows it can be done but, as I did in this video, we can see and comment on small errors that can be improved upon with more practice.
P.S. I remember that game!!!
I agree it's like having a snorkel underwater. I haven't got that thing to work yet at depth 🤨
Mine only works on the exhales for some reason
Agree...and the "blowing bubbles" method assumes divers only loose their regs on the inbreath (with a full breath) and not when exhaling! And once breathing off the octopus, it doesn't really mattet how the second stage is recovered.
Never thought about it but is so logical, have two, why not use both? Wouldn't even need to bother switching back to the primary.
From a former Instructor. Excellent point, switch to alternate air source then recover.
My instructor told us to switch to backplate and recommended a long hose setup primary and necklace for secondary. All this after he taught the PADI way of doing things. I believe backplate and long hose setup should be the standard. Yes that method of swinging arm while blowing bubbles is outdated, but it also teaches students never to hold breathe under water.
The never hold your breath on Scuba is pure rear end covering by the dive industry. The risk of lung expansion injury is grossly exaggerated
Fantastic idea and a slick no nonsense video. Great job.
I was originally certified in 1982, and we didn't have alternate air regulators (second stage). So you had to learn how to recover the single unit quickly and efficiently. In 1990 when I became an instructor we taught the use of an alternate air (Octopus) as a safety measure. I would tell students if they couldn't get the primary easily to switch over to their alternate air. Around that time alternate air / inflator systems came into play, and we taught to switch over to alt air inflator when in a buddy share air situation. The donor uses the alternate air and gives the primary to the person in need.
This is all leftover from the double hose and early single hose days with only a primary air source. Nowadays we have multiple options to utilize.
Finally, why do we have students kneel on the bottom. Stability and ease of access to things (gravity) for both the student and instructor. Once they get used to being in the water with the equipment you teach them proper buoyancy skills/control. I agree you don't want to overweight a student, but they need to learn to relax and control themselves first. Easiest to do in a kneeling or laying down (on the bottom) position.
This is what I experienced teaching in SoCal for 10 years. This is true for both pool and the beach. But I see your point, and cannot dismiss it out of hand while not totally agreeing with it. As long as your students are safe, that's what counts to me.
I always train my students to "solve probolems underwater." What I trypically have them do is search for their reg while lightly blowing bubbles (per my agency's standards) and if they cannot find it, remember the alternate and switch to it. I make a point to remind them of this before dipping under. It would be nice to teach it this way at least once in OW training to get the muscle memory.
I enforce the trim and neutral buyancy training specifically with this skill because, as is obvious in the video, the reg typically is right in front of you if you loose it while trimmed out. At that point you see the reg right in front of you, no need to sweep or switch, in and ideal scenario.
On blowing bubbles, the tec in me say "why are you getting rid of that perfectly good gas!" The reason blowing bubbles are taught at all is to try and prevent that lung over expansion by always breathing. However, holding your breath is not inherently dangerous, but with that uncontrolled ascent, as you pointed out, it can lead to lung over expansion. I think most students are capable of understanding that, especially with praticing skills like emergency swimming ascents, but I understand why it is tought that way in the recreational setting. Keeping it simple keeps people alive.
Great video and conversation on this topic!
Thank you for the comment. As a tec instructor, I always say that the true rule is to never hold your breath while ascending. However for new divers, I tell them to never hold their breath.
I find that as they gain more experience they will see that they can indeed hold their breath when needed but that "never hold your breath" will be engrained in them as it relates to ascents.
Love this method. Going to see about including this as a second method of reg recovery.
Always good to watch where your hand/arm is going on an arm sweep, coral, spikes, etc. Night or zero vis of course, well.. 😜
I think part of the reason to not swap to your secondary is you don’t know it’s working.
In long hose, for example, you donate the primary partially because you know it works.
The bubbles part to me makes sense, but only for the same reasons we say you have to always breathe and never hold your breath. Holding breath in ascent absolutely is an issue but otherwise it’s not really a problem. The issue comes in that a reg being knocked out of your mouth can cause panic, so training muscle memory of tiny bubbles to keep the airway open is good in case they bolt to the surface.
I would hope my secondary would work because I checked it before the dive? I guess it could fail though.
YOU SHOULD check to see if your secondary reg works. If you don't, you're wrong.
I used to wonder why this skill was taught. On holiday I rented kit for a boat dive. Got to the site and rolled in with my buddy. Started the decent then my reg got violently pulled out of my mouth. I couldn't find it as per my training and switched to my octo. My buddy signalled to abort and go back to the boat. Crew were flustered but explained that after I went in the next pair jumped in and one of their weight belts fell off and hit my hose snapping the reg out which then sprang back behind me getting caught. I was never going to get that recovered without removing the bcd or my buddy untangling it. A few inches over it would've been my head.
As a PADI water diver I have often wondered why regulator recovery is taught. My wife who is PADI rescue Diver feels the same. She uses her alternate.
Wild how simple a point this is. Also odd that it’s absolutely what an experienced or technical diver would do, yet we teach OWD students something less obvious hahaha
It certainly feels like my progression towards tech diving is a lot of unlearning owd stuff…
I believe both are good methods. If the student has the mindset to grab the alternative 2nd that's great. I believe the skill is taught with blowing bubbles is to emphasize not holding ones breath underwater
Try going to a longhose+neclace regulator. What is the point of adapting a method to a "rec" style method ehen the "tec" method is way way safer and cleaner.
I know that config well but I think you missed the entire point of the video. It is about teaching divers in gear they will see when they travel and rent gear. Not every center has longhose reg sets.
@@pranadiveI always travel with my longhose reg and my wing
Oh wow. Excellent. Thank you.
I always have my second regulator attached with a necklace around my neck, but it’s easy to pull it out of the necklace if ever needed, my second regulator is not an octopus, but a complete regulator with first stage..
One more thing, it’s easy to do thing in warm clear tropical waters, but try the same thing’s in Cold 🥶 murky and dark water with a thick dry suit, and 7 mm three finger gloves 🧤 😄
that makes 100% sense - great video - Thanks
Thanks. I ASKED when I took my class about doing such.
this is 100% the correct methodology. also, i wish more agencies taught long hose (or minimally necklace secondary + primary donate) as their method. if anything ever occurs with my primary im grabbing my necklaced secondary reg and using that until i can find my primary.
a few months ago i actually saw a father son (older father that honestly had no business scuba diving without a refresher). the son was messing with his camera, which he also shouldnt have had given his inexperience, and lost his primary... while he was trying to get it back his dad turned around and whacked him in the head with his fin knocking off his mask. dude freaked out pretty hard while trying to make sense of things. everything is easier when you can breathe. always, always, always make sure you can breathe-- it buys you time. time buys you the ability to calm down, not panic, and solve the problem... or let your buddy solve your problem. why put yourself on a breath clock when you dont have to?
i LOVE this. Occam;s razor at it's finest!!
That is a very good thought out idea.
Thank you!
@@pranadive good day sir we’re do you instruct. I’m fixing to start my instructor training. I’m going to ask that. Just wondering we’re you teach and have you took this to your agency for a look at that
@@paulmince2421 Hello Paul, we are located in Amed, Bali, Indonesia. Yes, the agency we teach under has seen this video.
@@pranadive have they looked at your video and taken it under advisement that is a very good reason to bring it to there attention. You are one of a kind to post that I’m going to bring that to my instructor I’m doing my instructor now.
I was not taught it this way. This makes a lot more sense, maybe some instructors do it to put fear into the student so they get used to the fear. When I was beating taught I had my regulator pulled from my mouth and my mask taken off at the same time as I was in a Quarry with very poor viz too. I panicked a little at first but then calmed and put the reg back in and mask back on. It actually taught me there was no need to panic and I became a better diver for it. Some instructors are oldschool and think they are teaching students Navy seal skills haha.
Should cover multiple ways and scenarios including your ideas. What if the octo is detached? Or shared? Those are the reasons why it’s taught the way it is. Muscle memory is crucial for all those situations
I am curious as to why the octo would be detached? Never in all of my diving have I had an octo that was unattached so i would love to read a more clear example of this.
Oh and thank you for watching and commenting.
@@pranadive sorry, but I'm with Jonathan here. Far too many times have I seen people in rental (or their own) gear where the Alternate Demand Valve falls out of the clip that should be holding it in place, leaving it dangling down the side. In an ideal World, it stays put. But we don't live in an ideal World. In this instance the panic would truly set in as they've gone for their Alternate DV first over their Primary DV, only to find it's not there... Then they have to switch back to PDV retrieval. I'm not saying I don't agree that it makes more sense to go for the ADV first, as hopefully it is where you put it at the start of the dive, but it isn't always. I think there is room for the teaching of both methods, but PDV retrieval being the most ingrained.
All that being said, I'm LHPD and necklace, so I'd always go for the one bungeed under my chin, and I think this is the way the industry should go. And from reading some off your other comments I'm sure you do to. And your point re rental gear across the World not being configured that way. If the Agencies move their standards to teaching that way, all centres would very quickly follow suit.
Good video, I agree with you, much better way to teach. Why leave a student with no reg in their mouth when they have a perfectly good reg within touching distance. The student in the video looks pretty relaxed and switched on.
I personally switched to my secondary source many times. First time i did the sweep and couldn't find my reg so i used my secondary. PADI doesn't teach this for some reason.
If you're not teaching primary donate with a short backup on a necklace, you are just stuck in the past and wrong. It has nothing but benefits versus traditional setup.
While I agree that primary donate with a long hose and short bungeed backup is the ideal config for safer out of gas issues, I don't believe that teaching a traditional setup is wrong. The majority of dive centers around the world have the traditional reg setup for teaching and rental gear. If you are teaching a vacation diver in a longhose, they will be unfamiliar with the traditional setup. Therefore you are doing them a disservice. When I was at another dive center, I taught all my courses with the primary donate and longhose setup but would include one dive on the traditional setup so they were aware of how it works and how to properly donate when they are traveling. I even added in a way to convert a standard setup to a "longhose, primary donate" type of setup with just one piece of bungee. Having said that, I fully believe the industry needs to move away from jacket BCDs and traditional reg setups and switch to backplate and wing and primary donate. The big issue though is that this would be a huge cost to change over for dive centers around the world who are already working on very small profit margins.
I thought the presumption was that you are more likely to lose your reg while sharing air, so your alternate is not necessarily available to you.
That is never the presumption. The most likely scenario for losing your reg is another diver kicking it out with their fins. Generally it is a diver who has not yet developed proper situational awareness.
The reason why is when a reg goes out it purges air which makes your octo useless because all the pressure is going out the reg. You need to find the reg, sip air from the purging reg.
This is actually not correct. When one reg is freeflowing, you can still breathe off the second reg, in this case, your octo. Try and experiment: take your octo and hit the purge button while breathing off of your primary air source. You will see there is no difference in how the reg breathes.
brilliant video
Makes sense. Thanks!
Question: is diving with partner better than diving with 3? I've found divers tends to dive side by side, looking forward, leaving almost blind spot in rear posit ion. But dive with 3, all facing inwards towards each other, each can cover 120° for complete 360° vision of safety for other 2. Everything has wanted too blindside from rear diving, diving in group of 3 can help visually an safety.
When doing technical dives, three is always the preferred number. However I think you have the team positioning a little off. When ascending, the position you describe, known as the star fish formation, is ideal. But when on the bottom at your planned depth, diving in that formation would mean one person would be finning forward, one sideways and one backwards. Obviously this is not ideal.
If diving in buddy pairs (2 people), as long a you can see your buddy out of your peripheral vision, then there is no need to worry about what is directly behind you.
Very valid point
TURK!! How are you, Bud?
Doing great! Love Bali and especially love the little area I live in.
I really want to see a raid dsd....
Blowing bubbles makes sense only when ascending…
“Sanity Breaths”
Ha ha hey I’m stealing that.
I agree with your method. 💯
And when the newbs get comfy and buy a plate setup later they can try the log hose , neck reg setup.
I was taught years ago by a GUE instructor that had a PADI shop.
He was great and inspired me to become an instructor myself.
Cheers from Adelaide SA
Also I was literally just thinking about another trip to Tulamben. I’ll look for your shop next time I’m in Bali mate. 👍
I like it. No reason why we can’t analyze a skill and improve upon it using common sense.
It only works if you have both regulators on the same side.
If yellow is on the left, you have to rotate it to use it proprely.
Am I wrong ?, 👌
While that may be true, I have never seen anyone who dives the regs on the left side. Nor have I met anyone who teaches it that way. I have also never seen any agency speak about regs on the left side.
@@pranadive
All the divers I have seen in France or during a Egypt cruise have the principal reg on the right hand, and the assistant yellow reg on the left hand.
@@pranadive Go look into BSAC... They have the PDV out of the usual (right) side, but ADV out of the left side. There are reasons, that I won't go into here. But just because you've not seen it doesn't mean it doesn't happen, or that it doesn't work.
I found, I just don't want to look for my primary, if it comes out of my mouth. I put my primary stage 2 on a necklace. I never have to look for it. My Octo is for a buddy if I am diving with one. I also sling a 30cu pony, for me, if needed, and my hand knows exactly where to reach for the stage 2 on that.
When else in training to you verify that students always consistently blow bubbles when their reg it out? While I agree this is good to teach, I don't see the harm in teaching the way PADI and SSI instruct with proper supervision. It also builds confidence that there is plenty of time to recover from a regulator that's accidentally kicked out of your mouth if you don't panic.
My opinion here. Consult with your instructor and/or divemaster
I love that idea❤❤❤
This doesn't seem like a bad idea, but I feel like it would just confuse DSDs as they don't necessarily even know where the alt is without looking. The main thing this student did wrong is not look - the reg was always over his arm when he does the sweep, and if he can't find it it's because he was looking up the whole time.
On second thought your way might be better for DSDs. Even though I've never seen a regulator come out on accident I can just imagine half of them would panic and forget the training anyway.
Unless a buddy out of air is on your octo. Teach both ways for both situations.
That would mean we are planning for two major failures. In recreational diving, that is just not done. One failure and we end the dive. That scenario is also not very realistic. I have never seen it happen and I don't think I ever will.
@@pranadive I agree, very rare...but so is just "losing" your reg at depth. The only time I've seen a reg drop is when a buddy needs/grabs at it etc. If you're going to teach to use the octo, you have to teach the scenario if it's not available in that rare case.
He’s almost upsidedown LOL
No, no he wasn't.
@@pranadive 2:12 😂 Don't know if his brains are in his feet or something
I been saying this for years, why not use the octo
It is better to grab the start of LP frm the 1st stage. Found easily everytime.
There is another way; just put your primary on a necklace. You’ll never lose it again.
We are well aware of using bungees on regs but this is a the basic open water course done using a standard recreational reg set you will find at any dive center around the world.
I would never recommend using a bungee on your primary reg. If you are using a rental set like this one, you put a bungee on the "primary" which now acts as your backup reg and you use the longer alternate air source or "octo" and switch to primary donate.
@@pranadive Quite right. Although I’ve long wondered why the standard rec set-up allows you to lose your primary. Is a tec-inspired ref configuration harder to teach?
@@timgosling6189 great question. No, a tec configured reg set, such as long hose, primary donate with a bungeed backup is not harder. The reason it isn't taught at most places in open water is that many divers travel and rent reg sets. Those rental regs are the standard recreational setup. But again, I would NEVER bungee my primary in a tec setup as it is now the reg I am going to be donating.
also why we teach knee down ? cause before you you walk you need to crawl. It stop easier for a beginner to knee down instead of trying to control buoyancy for the first few dive. Buyoncy must be one of the most difficult thing to control when you begin scuba diving. Being on knees give you a sence of balance and control at least a little bit more then if you where in mid water.
We could not disagree more with this. We teach neutrally buoyancy from the very start. There are multiple ways of doing this. You can teach from the top down, so starting at the surface and letting a little bit of gas out at a time until mid-water. You can also teach bottom up where we start laying on the bottom and add enough gas to be neutral.
The entire time we, as the instructors are also neutral which is "role model behavior". It also lends to the monkey see, monkey do principle of learning. Every skill we teach in confined and open water is done neutral.
Not to mention the leaning right to recover the reg works best when neutrally buoyant and in trim.
Completely agree with you. As an SSI instructor, we teach both methods, but I recommend to my students to use the Octo recovery method after the class in their practice.
Good to see people teaching better techniques, why I quit PADI and NAUI, and went TDI/SDI. I stopped Teaching Octo's 3 years ago. These days I teach all students Long Hose and as you, buoyant. Reg pops out, tilt head, pop in spare on necklace, then recover long hose, spit out spare and pop in main. Though I understand the gear limitations of Resort diving. If you never teach them the bad habits, they do not do it. When I take my students to the lake for first checkout dives, they come up dumbfounded on how bad other schools are.
@@shuntao3475 why did you quit NAUI? With the academic freedom you could have done it this way and also Padi allows you to do it the way shown on the video.
I think students should first observe instructors.You as an instructor can teach any way you please. I do know that instructors follow procedure according to their certifing agency such as padi,naui or sdi. Demonstration quality skills are an instructor prerequisite. So why not learn the skill from the person who does it best. Experience and practice will results in effective ,safe diving skills. I've worked under several instructors as a divemaster for years in cold northeast quarries and the north Atlantic ocean wearing drysuits . Safe diving.
Disagree. You teach the normal ways because you dealing with ppl with no experience and teach them not to panic and bubbles is to TRY to burn in their head that they can't go up holding air.
The head down buyancy doesn't make sense most new divers buyancy is let's down not head down . The October there sure we all know but the function of the skill is not use the Primary Ref is teaching that is not such a bit problem to get your ref back that u can do it with patience and in case you go up because u are new and can't maintain your buyancy u MUST blow bubbles to avoid lung over expansion.
The recovery isn't dangerous you had your student use the recovery thats taught.... There is no guarantee that the octo will always be available. So training with it as the first option is a potential hazard. IF you can't easily recover your reg, switch octo, if you cant, time to emergencies surface. This should be a mindset or procedural training and not a click bait video calling the recovery dangerous.
Amazing video! It's so great that you share your love for the ocean. Scuba diving is such an amazing water activity and it's lovely to see you enjoy it, keep going with these great videos. If it doesn't bother you, I'd like to give you a suggestion, a tip for the next videos: Basically, you could try inserting some comic and funny stuff... to give everyone a pinch of humor that, in the world of diving, can never be missing. Now, I don't think much of it, but the first thing I could think of in your sport might be peeing in the water. Once, my uncle, who is a scuba diver, peed in his wetsuit during a long diving session and that moment was absolutely funny, he even wrote "I’m peeing" on a waterproof notebook during the session. He has always been telling me that there are 2 types of divers and swimmers: those who pee in the water and those who lie. I know it may sound strange as a request but, in my opinion, these are moments of happiness and carefree that always make everyone smile. I hope you like the idea and I hope you have a wonderful day!
That’s one way of doing it. To me, the whole thing is wrong. Why teach a student not to turn their head? Like right there in front of your face, there’s the reg. Just put it back in your mouth. Why waste time blowing bubbles and flapping your arms around like a wounded seagull? 😂
If a reg gets knocked out of your mouth and flee flows and ends up behind / above you I'm doubtful you can turn your head that far. The point of it is to build confidence that you can perform actions without having to visually see something. No different than when I teach trimix students to remove/replace all 4 deco tanks with no mask on. It teaches you to be able to do tasks by touch alone reducing reliance on something you may not have. Just a thought.
OCD people who can’t change
make a lot of sens to me !
Et bien Luke il a le cul qui flote et toi visiblement, ça ne te pose aucun probleme...
Sorry, I disagree.
It makes much more sense for me to get that one regulator back from which you know that it worked before you lost it.
there could always be an failure at your alternate air supply which you don't know.
As we see in the video it is no problem to get your primary regulator back.
I appreciate your comment but your argument is a bit flawed. A second stage regulator, being an on-demand valve, will fail open, which means it will free flow. They will not fail closed meaning they do not give gas.
Given those facts, how could you have a failure of the secondary or AAS which you did not know about? Also, we breathe from both regs on land and also no deeper than 6m when doing the S-drill to make sure they breathe dry.
Lastly, you are talking about your diving while this video is specifically talking about teaching this in the Open Water course. Two different situations.
So let me get this right. You have a student there. Where is his snorkel? I don't suppose you know that is a requirement of his course? Makes me wonder what kind of standards are YOU violating. IMHO if you are blowing standards with a student on a video, what kind of standards are you violating when you are not being observed. And before you call me a snorkel nazi, let me ask. Do you wear a seat belt because it's the law, or do so because it's a safety device.
Thanks for the comment Bruce. Now let me dig into this a little.
First of all, your seatbelt analogy is very flawed. Wearing a seatbelt (in the United States) is a law. Having a snorkel on a dive is a standard but there is no law. Second, a seatbelt is a lifesaving device. A snorkel....well, the number of times I have needed a snorkel on a dive is zero. It is not a lifesaving piece of gear.
Are you a dive professional? If so you would know that disparaging another dive center or instructor breaks the standards of every agency. So well done on breaking standards while trying to point out , falsely I might add, that I am breaking standards.
The standards state that a diver needs to have a snorkel. This is a standard that I do not agree with and is a holdover from the early days of scuba diving. But it is still a standard. It does not say that snorkel needs to be attached to the mask.
So yes, I know the standards very well but thank you for alluding to some false narrative that I do not know them. The student in question had a snorkel on this dive but you failed to think before you commented and tried to imply that Prana Dive and our instructors are dangerous and break standards. A snorkel in the pocket is perfectly acceptable.
As for the "standards I break when not being observed" well, I break none. I actually teach above the standards and the RSTC minimums.
Thanks for playing along and I hope you have a wonderful day.
Sorry, but I don't agree. Why have all those hoses dangling? I have an extra long hose under my arm which is clipped to a d ring on my right BC strap. So when the breast stroking a-hole in Bermuda knocked my reg out, I just reached down the strap and found it again. I also us an Air-2, which is easy to find. I realize not everybody agrees, but that has worked for me for decades.
What hoses are dangling other than the one that is "lost" ? I applaud you on coming up with a solution that works for you. However, this is clearly about the open water course and divers just learning do not know about these gear "solutions" As for the Air2, I have used one and do not feel it is a very good alternative air source but you are the one diving it and if it works for you, that is all that matters.
I do not think you learned Long hose correctly and the Air-2 is garbage.
@@pranadive Octo started in technical diving, then after years of debate made it into OW. Then Tech Divers switched to Long Hose and Necklace. Presently I believe this is the absolute best way to dive. As you mention, we should be diving neutral. Out of Air Divers general come to you from above. They cannot see your octo or the color of the yellow hose. They go straight to the mouth and latch on to you. Now I can look down, pop necklace in the mouth and kick off of the Panic'd diver, giving me 6 feet of distance and space to assess and control the situation.
@@shuntao3475garbage? Really? Any alternative air source is not garbage when it is needed.
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