The EF team seems like a great group to work with. Would love to see some interviews with the other people taking the camp at the end. See how they did. Loving the series so far.
Just a reminder to drop a THUMBS UP on this video, and show your support for this series!!!!!!!!! (I've putted more than 100 hours of editing so far 🥲) Sorry, a small error slipped at the graph when Colby explains the power output for a 5 min test. The none-moving line should be a regular X and Y axis graph, and the moving line the explanation.
Zac totally crushed a massive number of egos when he said FTP is a meaningless number… the bike Gods didn’t like that and ushered in their vengeance with that dropped chain/knee slam retribution… 😬… hope he’s alright…
Hi Charles. Great video!!! I know Tadej Pogacâr is a very punchy rider. His ability to put out huge 5 minute max efforts accounts for a big part of his success. So I understand the value of the DTP metric. But, an additional big reason why Tadej won his last Tour de France was due to a great time trial effort where he make up a huge amount of time on the leader. That time trial effort was all about his FTP. So saying FTP is irrelevant sounds pretty sketchy. Just one man's opinion. Keep up the great work!! 💪👊👍🙌👏👏👏‼️
That was prior to knowing everyone DTP as everyone sorta know their FTP , the rest of the camp is all based off the new DTP number establish in the testing :)
The coach who thinks there's "no such thing in racing as turning up with a fresh Jersey to do your best 20 minute effort"..... ever heard of time trialling ???????
@@johnduddy2359 yea I'd honestly day British amateurs is different cause most of yall do hill climbs and tts which are somewhat similar in you need to cross a line somewhere as fast as possible. But here are WT specific coaches telling you that in grandfondos and local group rides similar to wt riding, an explosive and repeatable 5 minutes is where the money is really won. And I'm experience it is too.
@@Se0what Well if you think about it, british amateur racing has produced some of the world's most successful WT racers over the last 15 years, so .....
I have a 280 FTP. What’s my threshold? What’s my 5-minute max effort? My riding buddy has a 365 FTP. What’s his threshold and 5-minute max effort? Even if I can equal his max effort for five minutes, he always drops me before we get there. FTP may not matter as much when the differences are not significant. For the record we both weigh the same and are about the same age.
Hi what was the warm up time and time gaps between efforts? Would like to try this effort out. Instead of a 20miniute Ftp test. Great video by the way 👍
Thans Michael! roll to the climb for 40-ish km 5min all-out 10 min rest/ride back down the hill 15 minute @ 70% of the 5 min PR number 10 min rest /ride back down the hill 5 min all-out check the difference between the two 5s
I believe the context of FTP being meaningless is created around what he said next, which was FTP tests are generally conducted when legs are fresh and glycogen levels are high. This scenario does not relate well to real world circumstances at the end of one day or multi-day events where the rider is plagued by fatigue and decreased glycogen levels. So in this sense the #'s for FTP will be vastly different and pointless for gaging effort. He also said the repeated 5 min max efforts then periods of recovery is how races usually play out for creating a break or being able to win at the end. What's important is this; It's all about energy system development and that coincides with short, up to 30 seconds, intermediate, 2-3 min, and long, beyond 5 min time frames. This is why Dr. Ferrari says the most beneficial training method for bike racing is Fartlek. It's exactly the type of efforts you encounter in a bike race.
Thanks for sharing this content! I'm going to give this DTP test a go. Based on what you learned would you have any advice on how this can inform future training? Is it just another benchmark that you can check every so often, to see if you've made progress? Or can you for example use the size of the discrepancy between each max effort to inform what sort of training you should focus on? Thanks :)
The DTP is basically the Wahoo/sufferfest 4DP. Imo FTP doesn’t show the profile of the rider, other than knowing how they could TT for 20 mins. 4DP gives a clearer idea of your all round ability
ftp is pretty key to anyone looking to get kom's on long climbs. dont care about racing or sprinting. w/kg is really what it about, having a high ftp while being as light as reasonable.
Easily converted by a rule of thumb, yes. But in real world a best 5 min do not gives an accurate best 60 minutes and a best 60 min do not gives you an accurate 5 minutes just by doing a % of one of the other!
@@CharlesOuimet may it be so, BUT I´m not aware of any bike race (or group ride or whatever) only being 5 minutes long ;-) More in the region of 4 hours (which is 4 x 60 minutes and i know 48 x 5 minutes) - which extrapolation me be more acurate ?
@@czeckson74 the hypothesis for that DTP is that bike races are not continuous 60min power (except for time trials, and they are normally shorter than 60' these days) Instead, they can be better modelled as sequences of 5 min(ish) efforts (chasing group, holding wheel on a climb...) so the most accurate way to predict your performance is by looking at how good you are at putting power during 5 minutes (and specially looking at how good you are at repeating that 5 min effort after your previous 5 min stints, thats where world level class athletes excel :) )
Road races are decided in the surges that are typically in the 90s-4 min range. High ftp get a you a ticket to the front of the pack but that dtp and repeatability ( fatigue resiatance) is what get a you a shot at the podium. Ftp is a great metric for setting training levels and tracking aerobic fitness but racing requires targeting more specific levels.
This is all quite strange. I don't understand why during the conversation about how irrelevant ftps is, the coach in his explanation refers to threshold multiple times. This argument about ftp vs dtp vs whatever is all a load of word salad. All they are, is benchmarks. You measure improvement against them. Even if dtp is superior to ftp, surely a lactate test tops them all. Load of bollocks to sell training programs which are no better or worse than those that everyone else is selling. Marco Pantanis idea of training was riding hundreds of hours a month at a very low intensity and starving himself, he went up the alpes quite well. Talent not the minuscia of detail in a training plan made that happen. Train to DTP or FTP, the difference will be not worth talking about. I think the video was great BTW, it's the Bobo fad training discussed and in the comment section that I object to
It is NOT irrelevant, cause the stronger riders end up contesting among themselves.. The ones with lower FTP do not even get to the point they can contest.
Well it was early december when filmed, so it's cool to hit good numbers right before the base/off season :) Time to build back up to peak fitness for spring!
Yes they are, but it’s way better like that trust me 😅 all raw audio was from my GoPro, in a echo-y room, far from the coach, with background noises. The AI voice repair literally SAVED THE DAY, but sometime included some weird artefacts. Maybe next time I’ll have a dedicated cameraman and a sound guy with me 😅😅😅
This is all quite strange. I don't understand why during the conversation about how irrelevant ftps is, the coach in his explanation refers to threshold multiple times. This argument about ftp vs dtp vs whatever is all a load of word salad. All they are, is benchmarks. You measure improvement against them. Even if dtp is superior to ftp, surely a lactate test tops them all. Load of bollocks to sell training programs which are no better or worse than those that everyone else is selling. Marco Pantanis idea of training was riding hundreds of hours a month at a very low intensity and starving himself, he went up the alpes quite well. Talent not the minuscia of detail in a training plan made that happen. Train to DTP or FTP, the difference will be not worth talking about. I think the video was great BTW, it's the Bobo fad training discussed and in the comment section that I object to 🤪
Bunch of guru's running that camp. Cycling is not that profound, just look at all the cyclists the past 100 years. Diet is super important, resting, indurance, recovery, and mastering the bike.
This series so far has been awesome! Can't wait for the next episode.
Thanks Benjamin!!!
The EF team seems like a great group to work with. Would love to see some interviews with the other people taking the camp at the end. See how they did. Loving the series so far.
Thanks Tyler!
Just a reminder to drop a THUMBS UP on this video, and show your support for this series!!!!!!!!!
(I've putted more than 100 hours of editing so far 🥲)
Sorry, a small error slipped at the graph when Colby explains the power output for a 5 min test. The none-moving line should be a regular X and Y axis graph, and the moving line the explanation.
really appreciate the work you´ve put into this series: left LIKE and ABO here :-)
enjoying so far - would be good to see some detail of the mobility workouts - can see mostly what was done from your clips.. was there anything else?
FTP has no application to sports... goes on to explain the entire training structure is based on FTP
Zac totally crushed a massive number of egos when he said FTP is a meaningless number… the bike Gods didn’t like that and ushered in their vengeance with that dropped chain/knee slam retribution… 😬… hope he’s alright…
AHAHAH LOVE THIS.
FTP - Fully Trashed Patella
Well done Charles! Awesome job 👏
Your best series so far!! Absolutly love it!
Such a cool series so far! Really looking forward to the next episodes! 🔥
Hi Charles. Great video!!! I know Tadej Pogacâr is a very punchy rider. His ability to put out huge 5 minute max efforts accounts for a big part of his success. So I understand the value of the DTP metric. But, an additional big reason why Tadej won his last Tour de France was due to a great time trial effort where he make up a huge amount of time on the leader. That time trial effort was all about his FTP. So saying FTP is irrelevant sounds pretty sketchy. Just one man's opinion. Keep up the great work!! 💪👊👍🙌👏👏👏‼️
Saying FTP is irrelevant is pure clickbait.
Lol ftp doesn’t matter and then they line up the climb based on who has the highest w/k ftp
That was prior to knowing everyone DTP as everyone sorta know their FTP , the rest of the camp is all based off the new DTP number establish in the testing :)
Awesome series so far!!
THANKS BRO
Encore une fois, super vidéo !!
Merci xoxo
LOve Sant Gau climb, costa brava is wonderful
thank you for posting this series, its amazing. QUestion: so what became of your -18W drop? what was the analysis of that?
The coach who thinks there's "no such thing in racing as turning up with a fresh Jersey to do your best 20 minute effort"..... ever heard of time trialling ???????
Context mate. How often do pros or you time trial vs road race? Personally it's like 1:10 even then it's never exactly 20 minutes or exactly 60.
@@Se0what Hi, for me and quite a lot of British cyclists, it is majority time trials
exactly. And often its literally where Grand Tours are won.
@@johnduddy2359 yea I'd honestly day British amateurs is different cause most of yall do hill climbs and tts which are somewhat similar in you need to cross a line somewhere as fast as possible. But here are WT specific coaches telling you that in grandfondos and local group rides similar to wt riding, an explosive and repeatable 5 minutes is where the money is really won. And I'm experience it is too.
@@Se0what Well if you think about it, british amateur racing has produced some of the world's most successful WT racers over the last 15 years, so .....
I have a 280 FTP. What’s my threshold? What’s my 5-minute max effort? My riding buddy has a 365 FTP. What’s his threshold and 5-minute max effort? Even if I can equal his max effort for five minutes, he always drops me before we get there. FTP may not matter as much when the differences are not significant. For the record we both weigh the same and are about the same age.
Great series so far, really enthralling. Is this training camp something anyone can do!?
Yes open for everyone
@@CharlesOuimet do you have a link for booking?
Hi what was the warm up time and time gaps between efforts? Would like to try this effort out. Instead of a 20miniute Ftp test. Great video by the way 👍
Thans Michael!
roll to the climb for 40-ish km
5min all-out
10 min rest/ride back down the hill
15 minute @ 70% of the 5 min PR number
10 min rest /ride back down the hill
5 min all-out
check the difference between the two 5s
@@CharlesOuimet Thanks for your reply 👍👍👍
😮😮 NICE WORK 🎉
BOOM!!
Great content and series. What was the actual rest time before each effort you did on the tests?
thanks!! 40 min warm-up, 5 all out, 10 rest, 15 tempo, 10 rest, 5 all out!
I believe the context of FTP being meaningless is created around what he said next, which was FTP tests are generally conducted when legs are fresh and glycogen levels are high. This scenario does not relate well to real world circumstances at the end of one day or multi-day events where the rider is plagued by fatigue and decreased glycogen levels. So in this sense the #'s for FTP will be vastly different and pointless for gaging effort. He also said the repeated 5 min max efforts then periods of recovery is how races usually play out for creating a break or being able to win at the end. What's important is this; It's all about energy system development and that coincides with short, up to 30 seconds, intermediate, 2-3 min, and long, beyond 5 min time frames. This is why Dr. Ferrari says the most beneficial training method for bike racing is Fartlek. It's exactly the type of efforts you encounter in a bike race.
Thanks for sharing this content! I'm going to give this DTP test a go. Based on what you learned would you have any advice on how this can inform future training? Is it just another benchmark that you can check every so often, to see if you've made progress? Or can you for example use the size of the discrepancy between each max effort to inform what sort of training you should focus on? Thanks :)
The DTP is basically the Wahoo/sufferfest 4DP. Imo FTP doesn’t show the profile of the rider, other than knowing how they could TT for 20 mins. 4DP gives a clearer idea of your all round ability
What kind of rider are you according to the DTP test?
what kind of groupset are you running? Looks electronic but not like any of the big 3 manufacturers'.
ftp is pretty key to anyone looking to get kom's on long climbs. dont care about racing or sprinting. w/kg is really what it about, having a high ftp while being as light as reasonable.
sure!
@@CharlesOuimet you betcha
How much did they pay each for this camp?
FTP is a 60 minutes data - NOT 20 minutes, as the coaches are telling.
And that 5 minute DTP can easily be converted to FTP.
Easily converted by a rule of thumb, yes. But in real world a best 5 min do not gives an accurate best 60 minutes and a best 60 min do not gives you an accurate 5 minutes just by doing a % of one of the other!
@@CharlesOuimet may it be so, BUT
I´m not aware of any bike race (or group ride or whatever)
only being 5 minutes long ;-)
More in the region of 4 hours (which is 4 x 60 minutes and i know 48 x 5 minutes) -
which extrapolation me be more acurate ?
@@czeckson74 the hypothesis for that DTP is that bike races are not continuous 60min power (except for time trials, and they are normally shorter than 60' these days) Instead, they can be better modelled as sequences of 5 min(ish) efforts (chasing group, holding wheel on a climb...) so the most accurate way to predict your performance is by looking at how good you are at putting power during 5 minutes (and specially looking at how good you are at repeating that 5 min effort after your previous 5 min stints, thats where world level class athletes excel :) )
Road races are decided in the surges that are typically in the 90s-4 min range. High ftp get a you a ticket to the front of the pack but that dtp and repeatability ( fatigue resiatance) is what get a you a shot at the podium. Ftp is a great metric for setting training levels and tracking aerobic fitness but racing requires targeting more specific levels.
This is all quite strange. I don't understand why during the conversation about how irrelevant ftps is, the coach in his explanation refers to threshold multiple times.
This argument about ftp vs dtp vs whatever is all a load of word salad. All they are, is benchmarks. You measure improvement against them. Even if dtp is superior to ftp, surely a lactate test tops them all.
Load of bollocks to sell training programs which are no better or worse than those that everyone else is selling.
Marco Pantanis idea of training was riding hundreds of hours a month at a very low intensity and starving himself, he went up the alpes quite well. Talent not the minuscia of detail in a training plan made that happen.
Train to DTP or FTP, the difference will be not worth talking about.
I think the video was great BTW, it's the Bobo fad training discussed and in the comment section that I object to
It is NOT irrelevant, cause the stronger riders end up contesting among themselves.. The ones with lower FTP do not even get to the point they can contest.
Awesome
Thanks man!!
Showing an image of Ganna in EF train camp 😂
ahahahah
Really cool! DTP seems like a really interesting metric to calculate as well as the rider type (VO2 Max vs Glycemic?).
Trop cool!
Merci!! :)
Dropped chain…SCRAM or Shimano…can’t tell. I do not like SCRAM
They should just be using critical power
Ha,whats with the shifters?!?!😀
hehe FSA groupeset!
Yearly PR means little in January lol
Well it was early december when filmed, so it's cool to hit good numbers right before the base/off season :) Time to build back up to peak fitness for spring!
Anyone else finding the voices sounding very robotic/artificial?
Yes they are, but it’s way better like that trust me 😅 all raw audio was from my GoPro, in a echo-y room, far from the coach, with background noises. The AI voice repair literally SAVED THE DAY, but sometime included some weird artefacts. Maybe next time I’ll have a dedicated cameraman and a sound guy with me 😅😅😅
Some weird postprocessing going on.
Ouais le son est ' cacanne ' mais c'pas grave !
FTP is irrelevant? This is the most ridiculous piece of training advice I have ever heard.
This is all quite strange. I don't understand why during the conversation about how irrelevant ftps is, the coach in his explanation refers to threshold multiple times.
This argument about ftp vs dtp vs whatever is all a load of word salad. All they are, is benchmarks. You measure improvement against them. Even if dtp is superior to ftp, surely a lactate test tops them all.
Load of bollocks to sell training programs which are no better or worse than those that everyone else is selling.
Marco Pantanis idea of training was riding hundreds of hours a month at a very low intensity and starving himself, he went up the alpes quite well. Talent not the minuscia of detail in a training plan made that happen.
Train to DTP or FTP, the difference will be not worth talking about.
I think the video was great BTW, it's the Bobo fad training discussed and in the comment section that I object to 🤪
Bunch of guru's running that camp. Cycling is not that profound, just look at all the cyclists the past 100 years. Diet is super important, resting, indurance, recovery, and mastering the bike.