The Perceived Threat from Watch Crime and how it Changes the Way We Enjoy Luxury Watches
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 ก.ค. 2023
- Watch crime is increasingly a ‘thing’ these days with a watch reportedly being stolen every 30 minutes. In London this criminal trend has received more than its fair share of attention and sadly, this is with good reason : I’m not going to throw lots of stats at you here, just Google it, you really don’t have to look very far online to see the various reports.
And now with the summer upon us, there are going to be more instances where T-shirts and rolled up sleeves mean that watches being worn are on display for all to see…
So what does this mean for watch enthusiasts, like us, who enjoy wearing watches ? How do we navigate the fine line between style and security ?
That’s what this video explores… it’s my take on how I feel about it, the impact it has on me and how that changes my behaviour and the watches that I choose to wear…
Please join the conversation and share this video with your friends, family, and fellow watch enthusiasts.
Thank you.
p.s. I have used my own photographs and footage alongside video that I have copied from others. Thank you to the following (and sorry !) for my unauthorised use of your excellent content:
ITV
Nico Leonard
Rolex
Patek Philippe
Audemars Piguet
Swatch: MoonSwatch
Evening Standard
Guardian
Ticking Way
Stolen Ride
Hodinkee
Christopher Ward
Brendan Cunningham
Watchfinder
Phillips
Junghans in the streets, Lange in the sheets.
Funny you should say that. I’d quite like a luxury travel clock that could sit by my bed 😅
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Comment of the century.
This is the best and most niche insider comment ever made on TH-cam.
London is experiencing a mud wave the likes of which its never seen. Here are the results.
Invicta on the wrist, robber is pissed
Street robbery and or street violence, in any form, is one of the most upsetting crimes and a very good indicator of a society in decline.
The threat is real and perceived in London. Myself got my IWC robbed from my writst in London in 2018. What an awful experience it was, even though it was a "smooth" operation by the thiefs and there was no physical violence involved. The emotional scar is real however.
Sorry to hear. Pleased you weren’t physically harmed.
Presumably, this has affected which / how / whether you wear watches now ?
Poor baby. Need a hug?
@@justmeeagainn Need a beating?
@@justmeeagainn Only a piss-baby would talk that way. Tough guy aren’t you?? Tell me how tough you are.
What model was it? I had a Big Pilot, loved it. Now I have a Mark 19 and an Ocean 2000
There needs to be an industry wide database of all stolen watches' serial numbers readily available (and used as standard) by ALL watch repairers and vendors. Before any work is done, that serial number is checked as a matter of course, and the watch forfeit whenever a stolen serial number flashes up.
Make it extremely hard for any stolen watch to go under the radar, and the market for stolen watches will soon become untenable.
You would have to go at the root of the cause. There isn’t “Industry Wide Database” in Japan, Taiwan, Singapore, Korea, UAE, Qatar, Iceland, etc neither. Watch wearers are not fearing robbery in these places.
Put the watch theives in prison for seven years minimum & ten years if ANY violence is involved, ultimately it is the fault of the police & criminal justice system who fail to hand out the needed sentences for these crimes..
Yawn….😂
Watch thieves need to serve time!! 🥁😉
Luv a great pun.
I understand the impulse, and i would certainly wish that watch thieves and thieves in general get the punishment they deserve, but i do feel like the most important metric of success here is to lower the overall rate of crime.
Unfortunately for your hypothesis, there is a strong base of evidence that longer sentences are not even close to effective in terms of lowering criminal recidivism, read reoffending. That’s not me trying to say that we should be more gentle with criminals because they deserve it, but it’s a cold and hard fact that prisons aren’t just a place of punishment and rehabilitation, they are a breeding ground for networking, they put inmates in a situation where they become institutionalized, lowering the chance of them getting their life together even more and efforts of actually doing things that keep these people from reoffending are scare or nonexistent. It’s easy to misrepresent this argument as being lenient towards criminals, but that is just not what I’m trying to say, but what i think is important is that we put actual improvements to our society (lower crime) in front of easy populism that achieves nothing but creating agreeable soundbites for useless politicians. Facts over feelings so to say.
Whether the effectiveness of longer incarceration and decrease of recidivism is up for debate; the fact of the matter is, that for at least the duration of the sentence, one criminal will not be able to partake in any criminal activity on the streets. Very few criminals reform and become productive members of society. What goes on now is that criminals have little to no repercussions for their actions, and are seemingly allowed to run unfettered on the streets. Meanwhile, the true victims of the crimes are made to feel like the instigators of the crimes; and nothing is crazier than blaming victims for crimes.
And that has to be done IN CONJUCTION with means of reducing crimes. In this case, making it much harder to resell such stolen goods. Auction houses and shops must trace serial numbers to past owners, and documents or receipts provided for the higher end watches prior to sale. Online auctions should include pictures of the movement as well as serial numbers as well as any signings or markings in the case back.
But it all starts when these criminals are children. They are taught today that parents cannot reprimand them, or the parents face scrutiny. They are then exposed to media and video games that glamorize criminality. And they are exposed to the realities of law, which seem to punish victims and show leniency to perpetrators.
I left London in 1989. Then never encountered any threats, even whilst living in Brixton back then.
I’m now in North Northumberland and never worry about which Watch I wear when out & about.
Rolex included
Quelle surprise! Only the local sheep up there present any threat.
@@AntPDCIndeed so. The imported problem that everyone is too polite to address.
How sad. Same happens when you flash large diamond wedding rings. When thieves aren't prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, this is what results. And for those who say it isn't getting worse, I wonder what planet they are on.
If you think that a greater punishment is going to make them not rob you, you are in for a ride. Not even the death penalty stops them. They don't rob thinking they are going to get caught.
Yet they cannot rob if they are in prison, or dead, can they?
@@saxifragerussell5387 Exactly! No deterrent = more crime. If you want proof, check out what is happening in most large cities in America. Entire blocks of retail stores are closing in some places. San Francisco is becoming a ghost town for shoppers.
@@jacobitosuperstar if the punishment is made servere they won't do it again, i can wear my rolex watch in Dubai and nobody will mug me, ask yourself the question why, the answer is because their punishments are severe, and that's the deterrent, period.
@@williamlane9844 Dude, you are talking about one of the richest countries on earth. Come to colombia, you can shoot death the guy that will try to rob you, and tell me what that brings you, if they leave you alone, or they just come with more guns than you.
When I was a kid (about 30 years ago) my father wouldn’t wear his Rolex
DJ (about 2G back then) in city he grew up in - Calcutta India… he said someone would chop his arm off for it and in the UK it’s ok because we are safe…30 years on I wouldn’t wear this watch I’ve inherited in pretty much any major city in the UK… Make that of what you will!
N E W C O M E R S
It has been like this for years in Brazil and makes it impossible wearing anything outdoors. Hope the situation gets better for you, cheers!
When buying we should not accept "without box and papers". That should lower the rate of watch robers in time.
Definitly! It‘s so easy! I couldn‘t understand how somebody would buy a watch without box & papers! The risk that the watch is stolen or a fake is very high! Who on earth is throwing away his box and papers of a watch whitch costs THOUSENDS of Euros/Dollars???? Nobody could be so stupid! I mean, if I buy a car, I also don‘t throw away the papers of it! @all: STOP BUYING WATCHES WITHOUT BOX AND PAPERS!!! If no one would buy watches without box papers, then the number of watch thefts would decrease drastically!
Bravo! Wise comment from a brilliant gentleman. Exactly! Without original box and papers you have no provenance of a timepiece, it's history, etc. When a watch is provided with papers, you can be reasonably assured the watch has not been stolen.
Fakers can manufacture a fake watch but faking a plastic card and box are nigh impossible. Makes sense.
I disagree here. Buying without box and papers is fine if you know the details of the watch you want and buy from a trusted source. It's pretty easy to find blank cards if you look for them
For years I wore a particularly under-the-radar IWC as my everyday watch, and it never really gave me a moment's pause for concern - other than in London where I'd never choose to take anything expensive, especially on the tube where a robber or pickpocket could disappear into the crowd in seconds.
Fortunately, interesting or just plain cool watches aren't necessarily all expensive, and they're something we can all enjoy. My current favourite is my Seagull 1963 which I'd happily wear anywhere.
After a while kind of a system developed itself: Business meeting at a hotel or restaurant, with my car parked at the entrance or garage nearby = any watch fitting my outfit. Shopping in the city on a saturday / going to Berlin or Munich = below 3000. Dinner in the city / Pub with chance of getting sh*tfaced = below 1000. Physical work = any Seiko 😎
The way your watch makes others feel for me resonates. Waiting in line for a coffee the barista’s look of hurt at my Rolex made me rethink. For many, these things are unobtainable. Hence, I have paired down but not out of fear. Life is short and uncertain. Getting robbed for my Daytona isn’t a worry.
I understand your point. I really do. However, how can you be sure the next barista won’t give a look of hurt at your loafers? Or your iPhone? Because a service man in my building clearly was envy I took my morning swim wearing my Apple Watch series 8 which I received as a gift (he was like - oh wow they really made it waterproof?!).
Life is much too short to care about what other people think, especially those that don't matter to you. Wear what makes you happy.
@@IDKline The watch I wear has zero impact on anyone in any underdeveloped country.
@@NEONNOONE loafers are not easily identified; Rolexes are. My cleaning lady wears an apple watch; she does not have a Daytona.
I live in South Africa and it has certainly affected how I collect and wear watch. Having been in a few violent encounters I don't fancy being stabbed again. I therefore dont wear anything bold or steel strapped in public anymore. Casio's standard models in black are now the only thing I can wear in public as someone was even killed for a Seiko the other day. Sad times indeed.
🤯
Ah Bro that’s sad
I couldn’t live like that. ☹️😭
Its not all bad but I would rather be safe. I still enjoy my timepieces at home or at places where I know security won't be an issue. Have a fantastic day!
Wtf is wrong with South Africa
South Africa used to be a good country when the boers ran it.
I work in london on local authority contracts, I wear a G-SHOCK or my Apple Watch while at work, then in evenings and weekends I put on my more appealing to me watches , I’m always aware of my surroundings which is sad but just a fact in life that you must not drop your guard. The only place I seem to relax is when on holiday in an all inclusive resort that isn’t open to anyone just walking in to the hotel/resort , also they always have security guards on the beaches and main entrance. Isn’t that a terrible way to think but unfortunately that’s how I perceive it anyhow. 😢
Thank you. Having just been on a break at a resort hotel, I too was able to relax as you describe…
This is something I think about. A lot. I live and work in London and now my overt 'sexy' watch - my Rolex - I rarely wear in London at all. It sits in a safety deposit box and I get it out when I go overseas on holiday and for biz; definitely in places less fancy or 'rich' than London...but ultimately safer than London.
For me, even as I'm ex-mil law enforcement and somewhat capable of defending myself, it would be the risk of me being with my family, or friends and the risk of potential collateral damage to them.
It’s also weighing on London. I live in Monaco, and after the obvious tax aspect the second most prominent reason we have a queue of new residents is security. This type of crime is virtually non-existent (heard tell of some guy being relieved of his RM in a nightclub once but that’s about it) thanks to plenty of visible (and plainclothes) police, CCTV and a very firm hand. They also regularly stop and search anyone who looks “out of place” - make of that what you will.
They also don’t let in every poor scum who wants to come grift off the government. Countries like the us and uk who adopt immigration policy that just lets anyone in also have much more crime than places like Monaco who use common sense
Well, profiling works well which is why police around the world do it.
A thoughtful, considered and articulate video, thank you. I travel frequently in the developing world so consider this question often, and maintain two collections, one for safer venues, the other for travel. Key for me, though, is the fact that my travel is my most special watch wearing opportunity so I struggle to find a lower cost alternative that will be worthy of my memories. Thank you for your recommendation of Christopher Ward. I focus on less than $2K USD as a loss in that range won’t be crushing. In any event, something particularly bad seems to be happening in the U.K., and I do hope it gets sorted. All the best.
You touched on it early on. You've actually made me more conscious now than I ever was. I've just visited London this week and was wandering around wearing a new Seamaster. Not mega expensive but I never gave it a moments thought.
Got me thinking 😮
I’m sorry to have brought this into your consciousness; hopefully, in a good way.
On a further positive, I have found that there is a semblance of balance to some of the comments made about this video; there are contrasting views being expressed but it all boils back to our individual perceptions and how we then behave.
And yet, on a WhatsApp group I’m on, someone was robbed of his watch in Soho last week… so it does happen and crime of this nature is of course a reality, but to what extent it affects us and the magnitude of the impression it makes, is ultimately down to each of us and our own perception.
What an awesome video. I love to hear the thoughts of other watch enthusiasts.
I must say that Christopher Ward "The Twelve" looks absolutely gorgeous - refined, very well-made, and (the titanium version) COSC certified. I want one now.
Which is why I am grateful to be living in Hong Kong - it is absolutely watch mecca here. We have one of the lowest crime rates in the world, and I see GMTs, Daytonas, Royal Oaks on a daily basis, on the streets, in the MTR (subway train), at the park. People are just so used to seeing luxury watches here.
Yes not my cup of tea but certainly safe and a Rolex dealer on every corner (with nothing to sell :yet) Its not that they are 'bored' with them it's the crime rate is much lower.
HK: "Police handled 77 robbery reports last year, down 37 per cent from the 123 incidents logged in 2021.
The 2022 clear-up rate was 74 per cent."
6000+ watch thefts in the London Metropolitan area in 2022.
HK is the fake watch capital of the world....why steal something that is probably a 1:1 replica from the clean factory???
Welcome to the uk all are welcome
@@binyard1972 I'm actually Scottish born but left the UK about 8 years ago. Hong Kong is not as bad as they say it is.
Reps
I couldn‘t understand how somebody would buy a watch without box & papers! The risk that the watch is stolen or a fake is very high! Who on earth is throwing away his box and papers of a watch whitch costs THOUSENDS of Euros/Dollars???? Nobody could be so stupid! I mean, if I buy a car, I also don‘t throw away the papers of it! @all: STOP BUYING WATCHES WITHOUT BOX AND PAPERS!!! If no one would buy watches without box papers, then the number of watch thefts would decrease drastically!
I live in NYC and travel by subway to Wall Street everyday. I wear Rolex, Breguet, Breitling, Cartier and everything in my rotation. Never had an issue or a concern, knock on wood.
I am retired. Never had a problem in NYC. Didn't even think about it.
Thank voters mostly outside NYC for the fact that thugs feel uncomfortable doing this in America. It's obvious why
@@_e5598 Why? it’s not an issue in NYC. I wear high end watches all the time…in NYC
@DWilliam1 because in America we have mutually assured danger with guns. Even in places they've been restricted
@@_e5598 I’m not sure about that. Very few legal gun permits in NYC. They have guns all over Somalia and South Africa but I wouldn’t feel safe wearing my Rolex in those countries. In fact, there is more gun crime I states that have lax gun control laws than in those that are restrictive. NY, is one of the more safer states(and cities) compared to South Carolina(I also own a house down there), Louisiana, Mississippi and even Florida and Texas.
Well since I live in Key West, FL in the USA I have the right to bear arms for self defense. I always carry a Colt .45 caliber model 1911 pistol concealed in my waistband that I am well trained on and that makes me the equal or better of any person that would wish to do me harm. So I get to wear whatever I want without fear. I have worn a Rolex on my wrist everywhere in the US for over 25 years without any incident whatsoever. Admittedly I do not purposely go into high crime areas much or go 'clubbing' in big liberal cities. If I ever decide to travel out of the country, and therefore can not be adequately armed, I would probably wear my Glycine Airman Vintage Noon Purist gmt $800 on a dark brown leather strap. I really like this 40mm GMT 2 time zone watch that measure 24 hours at a time and wear it now often just for fun anyway but it would be a perfect travel watch.
I still wear my nice watches in London but I choose carefully the tops I wear. Sleeves must cover my watch
Classic example for me is I take a few watches on holiday, I was in Milan last week and I took my Explorer and my MoonSwatch for those moments when you are worried about some of the people that concerns you and when I did have my Explorer on I felt very worried at times as it’s known for pick pockets , I’ve now moved on the Varenna on Lake Como and I feel very happy here as it’s very safe here so it’s case of making sure these days that you go to nice places if your wearing nice watches
I learned a long time ago You can’t have anything nice in the UK
We all know the true cause of it, don 't we? Hint. Hint.
Of course you can, stop talking out your arsenal. Yes there is some crime but thousands of people wear or own expensive goods without issue.
@@carlingblacklabel2864try living in Market Harborough
Interesting discussion...
I live close to San Francisco and when I visit I'm much more concerned about my car getting broken into. My luxury watch is with me at all times. Helps that I'm 6'2" tall to scare off thieves.
This is why I also carry a firearm...I have been in a few situations, one that actually involved my watch and they have much more to worry about than I do.....If you flash wealth, you better be a man who can defend your wealth....If they wind up getting my watch, they will also be getting some lead to go with that gold.
As a watch enthusiast who owns over 40 watches, this was a subject that troubled me for some time.
I am not a wealthy person so any watch worth more than £1000 is a considerable purchase for me and the most expensive watch I have bought was a Tudor Black Bay M79230N.
Ultimately I decided to sell the Tudor because I felt I was not able to wear it and feel comfortable. I was concerned it was too recognisable from a distance.
I think to spot an expensive watch there has to be something distinctive about it, be it the snow flake hand of a Tudor, the unmistakable crown on the dial of a Rolex or the distinctive shape of a Royal Oak or Nautilus and of course anything with the hue of red or yellow gold.
All of my valuable watches are stainless steel and I tend to pair them with straps as opposed to bracelets. I personally feel wearing them this way helps them fly more under the radar as they don’t tend to catch and play with the light as much.
I have recently come into some money and I have been considering buying something to crown my collection, but I must admit I am finding it very difficult deciding on what to get.
I do know one thing though, if I had much more disposable income I would wear much more expensive watches with a lot less care.
Saying I own over 40 watches, and at least one is a Tudor, means you are much wealthier than most of the world. Not saying that gives anyone the right to take one, but I do think you need to reconsider just how wealthy you are. The Tudor alone would feed a family in some countries for a decade probably.
@@Ray.J I am 53 years old and I have collected my watches over many years. You make it sound like I went and purchased them all in one year. Plus you have no idea of the value of my collection. I have 11 Casios and a number of cheap quartz watches and only one watch, if I was to sell it would fetch over £1000.
The point I was trying to make and you obviously failed to understand is that the more wealthy you are the more relaxed you can be about wearing valuable watches and as I consider my self as not wealthy I could never feel comfortable wearing the tudor because I could not afford to loose it. I was punching (as we say in England) well above my weight and I realised I should not own a watch like that because I could not afford to loose it.
I think you should consider what your saying before you post.
@@Ray.J feed a family one place but it might not even be enough to make rent in another place. You can save and buy stuff over time without considering yourself (or being) particularly wealthy. Doesn’t mean he said he was broke either 🤷🏼♂️
I agree about the straps. I frequently wear my watches on leather or nato straps because I find it aesthetically pleasing. But i do also like how it makes my Rolex Explorer 1 and 2 fly under the radar too. Both not so overtly identifiable Rolex models, once you remove the Oyster bracelet. That is why when travelling I usually wear my Explorer 2 on a Nato strap. That being said, I have not been to London or any major french cities since watch crime has gotten so big and might just wear my Seiko when I go there next time🙁 well, I do like my Seiko too😃
@@Bisley1 Well sure, everything is relative, I know that. And being wealthy looks different depending on where you live. And sometimes the most contented people are those with the least. Rich people are seldom satisfied it seems. Because they are focusing their time, talent and treasure on the wrong things. Again, I generalize, but I think it is mostly true.
My approach is: what’s to be is to be. If my destiny is to meet such event of having a watch being stolen, so be it. I’m never going to be prisoner to my watch and fearful of wearing it. If I feel this fear - I am out of the watch hobby.
The sweep on that Grand Seiko is beautiful!
Funny timing. I was wearing my Zeitwerk to the capital today, for the first time ever. And I specifically chose a long sleeve because of it. And Oslo is about 1000x safer than London. I would never travel with it, simply because of theft/robbery.
That being said, if you want to ease your mind, I'll take the Odysseus off your hands. I'll even give you back every penny you paid for it! :D
Very good! So, it isn’t just Alfredo and I… thanks for sharing. Presumably you haven’t ever had the misfortune…
So you opted for long sleeves. Have you ever decided against wearing your “first choice” watch? And if so, what did you wear instead ?
@@watchenthusiastlondon Oh, very often. I won't wear any of my (two) most expensive watches on days I'm going to the gym, as insurance won't cover theft from a watch left in the car. I have opted not to wear the Zeitwerk - my clear favorite - tens of times due to increased risk of theft. I have never brought it out of the country. Never worn it while drinking. But I am completely fine with that. I get all the enjoyment I could ask for, even with these precautions.
I have a Breguet Marine 5817st, a 36mm Explorer and a JLC Reverso that cover most bases when I want slightly less risk exposure, but still wear a good watch. All of which go "under the radar" and still bring me tons of joy.
I have indeed not had the misfortune. Though it is rare in Norway. Earlier this year a guy with an AP RO was held at gunpoint and forced to turn over his watch. That made the news. Other than that, I solely hear of cases happening on vacation.
I'll take that as a "no thank you" on the Odysseus offer then....🤷♂
My feeling is that one has to distinguish between London and everywhere else in the UK. Why? Because there are numerous highly organised robbery gangs operating in London. To this extent it is probably unwise to wear visibly _any_ moderately high value item on the streets in London. No doubt the stories about the gangs educating themselves about watches are true. That being said, though, I'm 100% sure their main target is always going to be Rolex - just because these are relatively easy to sell quickly and for a good amount without box&papers. But Lange? Journe? Patek - aside from Nautilus/Aquanaut? I dunno man...are they really going to see a Lange _Richard Lange,_ let's say, or a Patek _ref 5296 sector dial_ from 20 paces away and identify it in the same way they would spot almost any Rolex Professional Range model? And even if they did, would such a watch be remotely so easy to sell hot without box&papers as a Rolex? I know someone who lost an F.P.Journe in a bag-theft. When they reported it as stolen to Journe, they were informed that it would become from henceforth virtually un-sellable other than in a back alley, so to speak; and that it would in any case sooner or later have to find its way back to FPJ for servicing - at which point it would be flagged up as stolen... At the very least, when outside of London, wearing something like a Lange would be genuinely extremely under-the-radar, I think.
I live in North Canada, we have very little ,,watch crime,, here. We do struggle with polar bears, though. The good thing is, that they leave your watch
intact, they only eat the edible parts of your body, but the watch stays there.
Anthony Farrar has robbed loads of watches😮
I'm very intrigued by the comments you recieved from the former police detective regarding watch criminals educating themselves to identify Langes. I watch the Lange grey market in the UK like a hawk, so few come up for sale it seems practically impossible for a thief to steal a Lange in London and then shift it in the UK without the victim/community finding it. Food for thought though, I, like you, have naively felt safe from targeted crime as Langes (I assumed) fly under the radars of most criminals, clearly this isn't the case anymore.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news… but you make a good point about the rarity / unavailability and hence the greater risk to try and sell on…
Just my take... It is always best to purchase fine watches from an AD or better yet a factory owned boutique. There, they have records, and should the watch come in for service, you may have a better chance of identification and recovery, that is if the manufacturer is notified to keep a look out for it.
My other half wears my old Invicta Pro Diver. She wears it because she can read it and she does a lot of yard work and just needs a tough cheap watch. But so many people think it's a Rolex and she has had funny looks from people. I have told her she can have something else but doesnt want to change it. Also I have advised if anyone wants to take it...just let them.
I wear my Apple Ultra watch when in NYC. I told my wife I don’t wear my other watches (Speedmaster, Tudor Pepsi) in NYC for fear of theft. She informed me that thieves weren’t interested in my watches.
If only…
Wear my Series 8 for entirely same reason. I guess most robbers know that “find my” app from Apple exists and it can be tracked down even when turned off. I also remember people were stealing iPhones prior to this feature. Not so much these days.
I agree with your wife. Just don’t put yourself in bad situations like being the only one on a train car or waiting at the isolated area of a train platform.
You do great content . Decide if your hobby is worth the mental strain of living where you do or is professional security worth yhe cost .
I'd wear any watch in Norway or Dubai, totally safe. Rolex Omega Panerai in my own town. Horage Supersede everywhere else - even enthusiasts don't give it a 2nd look and it's the perfect everyday luxury watch.
Interesting… that’s the first time I have heard of Horage… just having a look👍
Do you resent having to remove a watch in order to wear another (‘downshifting’ if you like) because of the sense that your initial choice is somehow inappropriate for where you’re planning to be ?
@@watchenthusiastlondon It would be nice to wear the DJ41 or Panerai anywhere - those two cover my lifestyle pretty well. But no, no resentment (yet).
I think there is an important conversation to be had within the watch community about what it means to be walking around wearing a watch that might have the value of someone's yearly salary. We talk about certain cities being hotspots for "watch crime" - I also live in London - and it can't be a coincidence that this seems to occur in places where there is extreme wealth disparity, with people living in extreme poverty and people living with relative wealth both taking the underground. I love watches, but there's a growing tension within me around this and I can't shake the feeling that there's an obscenity to the hobby in some respects - at least the luxury side of things.
I am not defending people getting robbed and beaten up in any way - it's awful - but the conversation never seems to get to the core of why these things happen. By acknowledging that certain areas seem to have a higher prevalence of these thefts than others, we have to admit that there is a socioeconomic root to it. Anything else is magical thinking - people living in London do not have a spiritual propensity towards nicking Submariners.
We are on the same page, I think.
Let’s face it, if it were just about the mere functionality of a watch, and given the advent of mobile technology you might argue that all wrist watches are unnecessary and a waste of money. However, the point you make is well made. There’s an excessive spend involved when it comes to luxury watches and frankly many other luxury items too. Arguably, it is all relative - you can draw parallels with property, cars, boats etc. but yes, it’s both a privilege and an obscenity.
Unfortunately, the wealth disparity you refer to is everywhere, however I suspect the wealthier districts within cities represent good business opportunities for watch criminals because they are more likely to yield rich pickings, and more often.
Regardless of what each of us might do individually, and the extent to which we might help others, we all have our limits. Personally, I choose to set boundaries - because otherwise, where does one stop ?
Even so, there are times I feel guilty for being as fortunate as I am. I try not to take this for granted and chalk it up as a guilty pleasure. I believe we all need to acknowledge that each of us is different, and that we have different circumstances, accept this reality and then be compassionate - not forgetting compassion for ourselves.
I touched on a similar point in an Instagram post on 3.10.21 reference my Lange 1:
instagram.com/p/CUkibiCMU72/
It's not poor people grabbing from rich people, it's criminal gangs stealing what they perceive to be easy targets. Plenty of places with wealth disparity in the world, London has a problem because we're far to lenient in the UK on this type of crime. People get a slap on the wrist instead of 20 years, and therefore the risk is worth the reward to them.
The vast majority of people from a lower socioeconomic group don't engage in violence or crime, so why would that be used as a explanation for the behaviour of the small percentage among them who do?
@@Pilkie101 That's flawed logic and I think gm89 was spot on in a lot of respects. It's hardly surprising resent grows in areas where kids grow up in single parent homes, with a mother or father who's never around because they have to work two jobs just to heat the house and put food on the table and they see people walking around with watches on that equal the saleries of those 2 jobs combined. Again, explaining is not defending, but the greater the wealth disparity gets in this country the worse issues like this will become.
@@donmongoose You can't just say it's flawed logic and not say why. You just repeated the same point. If the majority of poor people don't commit crime then being poor isn't an adequate explanation for the behaviour of the small group among them who do.
9:30 the awkward moment when your enemies are more into your hobbies than your friends are
Was in London this weekend. No watches, at least not on wrist out in the open. Only put it back on in secure location - past security desk / police checkin at motorsport event, and inside hotel. Have an ugly black cheap plastic Swatch System51 also if/when needed. Most capital city centers should be considered as cut throat locations, to be avoided like the plague.
Well .. since I just sold my only Rolex and I have a few Bremont watches to keep me company .. I guess I’m happy about that choice. The Rolex was nice … but Bremont is the better choice.
Interesting that you have chosen a CW 12 as your "under the radar" watch to wear out and about in London. I'd suggest that from a distance of about 5m, this watch could easily be mistaken by a potential thief as being an AP RO, or a Czapek if the thieves really know their stuff ;-) Point is, this homage type of design is still a red flag to the potential thief.
Where i live, there are so many wannabes wearing Rolex super clones, that is why people dont care anymore about the watch you wear. So many super clones for sale and so many people buy them to impress people they dont know. Started wearimg my Tudors and Seikos and i feel good about it knowing its the real piece.
This is another reason the rich love Dubai , Singapore , Kuala Lumpur , Zurich , Monaco and most republican cities in the Usa where it will be be fine , the Uk particularly London , seems to be in a death spiral
Most cities in Asia, Tokyo even Bangkok are much safer. I don't think that's true about republican cities in the US, there are lots of robberies too.
@@tiagofilipe6592 Please tell us the "Republican" cities where it's not safe...
I thought it was because some of these places are tax havens!
@@tiagofilipe6592 literally EVERY city ran by a democrat is a shithole. Name one doing better since 2019.
My watches are usually firmly under my sleeve, unless of course I'm wearing short sleeves in which case my gshock is on my wrist. It's scary knowing what a keen eye these thugs have.
to put that into perspective, I am from NY, but now live in Rio where they will easily rob you for your G-Shock all day. so Brits, stop being so cvnty
They research on social media
This video feels like a flex...
Been traveling to London from DC since Oct 2023. I usually stay for a week, maybe more. I actually commute out to Croydon when I'm there. I wear everything from Rolex, to AP, to Lange. Never felt unsafe. Same is here state-side in DC, NYC, or LA. I don't want to diminish the actual thefts, but I think a few cases have turned into a bigger issue than it is. I just got back from vacation in Portugal, not one concern. I love London, amazing city.
Thank you … as others have pointed out, in reality the threat might simply exist between my ears ! 🙏
@@watchenthusiastlondon I think it's a worthy discussion. For me it's about being smart (know where I'm going and not going -- all cities have bad parts of town) and being aware.
PS - every time you do a video with your zeitwerk it makes me want one! lol cheers!
Few? "A total of 6,109 watches were reported as stolen to Metropolitan Police in 2022,"
@@peterharding5184 thank you and sorry ! 🤣
Sorry, London has changed dramatically as has Paris over the years. French police told me 20 years ago what would happen if the French government didn't stop certain people from migrating into the country. They were prophetic! The fact remains that the days of London being British is a distant memory, as 60% of those residing there are not native Britons!
Back in the 1980's, my best friend and I would routinely visit London for business and pleasure and we are from So. California. Back then, we never had any worries riding The Tube at midnight with her wearing diamonds. Not anymore. Being an entrepreneur, I have been a loyal patron of Piaget since college. Like me, all my watches are old. I prefer manual movements, ultrathin, with leather straps. Most don't attract attention as they are plain and understated. With increasing crime in London and Paris, I prefer to remain closer to home. Who needs the hassle? We all know the cause... My solution: Wear a tennis "sweat band" surrounding a prized watch as not to gain attention, or a long sleeve shirt or sweater. If that doesn't work, get a travel pouch you can carry under your shirt, with a neck cord. Put papers, cash, cards and your watch in there. Carry a fake wallet, and put some cash in your shoe. Put on your watch at your destination, hotel or home.
Immigration.
I think this part of the watch bubble evolved the latest admits the rising hype and this will be last branch to die out when the hype really came down. Rising prices justified everything, even buying a Watch that is most likely stolen. If the trend remains how it is, buyers will have more choices and will go to safe variants rather than the best price for a shady product.
Hence why I chose to buy an Omega Speedmaster instead of a Rolex Sub, the chances of being mugged in London are diminished dramatically and still looks good.
PS: plus I am on the list 😂
Don’t kid yourself they love speedmasters
I live 8 miles due west of Chicago
Im new to the world of watches but no problem wearing a rolex dj or a grand seiko sbga465.
Wishing everyone a good day and may catastrophe never strike you.
Then, please don't visit The Loop, the Southside or take the train into the city. Far too dangerous now.
So how do I insure my watches? Is there any service you recommend in London or UK in general?
I put mine on my household insurance and submit invoices to the insurance company. They may stipulate that you require a safe… I have a 12 watch winder safe with toughened glass so you can see in (makes it far more accessible)…
@@watchenthusiastlondon thank you! Any specific companies you recommend? I have a safe, I meant for insurance.
find this guys voice so relaxing
I travelled into London yesterday after watching this video and decided to leave my new Explorer at home. Instead I wore my 20 year old Omega AT which I didn't think many people would notice. Opposite me on the train was a guy wearing a lovely gold IWC Portugieser worth at least £20k. He had short sleeves and it really was an eye catching piece.
As we disembarked at Paddington I complimented him on it and mentioned I'd been reluctant to wear my latest purchase into London after watching a TH-cam video.
His comment was a shrug and "maybe you shouldn't watch TH-cam videos"
Thanks for sharing. Good to hear… if you know what I mean. It’s tricky. I may have been overly influenced by others on TH-cam too, but I don’t want to be the first to find out the hard way !
Casio FW91: the only realistic option on the streets of London or Birmingham.
There are other cheap, better watches
@@carlingblacklabel2864Casio AQ230
Bottom line is, you wouldn't walk through a city waving a wallet with 10 grands worth of 50's sticking out of it. Chances are you'd be fine, but at all points in our day we do subconcious risk analysis and mitigation.
I love watches, they're a beautifully useless item to enjoy and come in so many varieties, complications and designs, but I've always felt there's a degree of vulgarity towards the higher end, or at least in the way they're openly worn in public.
You can wear an omega speedmaster and be at risk. Some models are worth more than 10k dollars. Well when I was a kid my sport teacher had one and was not a rich man and he did not have any issues wearing it. Many people who love nice watches are not very rich but they enjoy a nice watch. Same thing for people who have a nice Moyer cycle or car….. I know that I’m NYC I would not wear any expensive watch. Too easy to get robbed. In Paris it is much better, but in summer I wear a cheaper watch. It is a sad state of our society
You are absolutely right. In this world of immense inequality, i find it just ridiculous to wear a watch so valuable that wearing it puts you in danger. Help make the world a better place with all your money, then these problems will go away.
It is irritating. Im also based in london and am looking to buy my first luxury watch, and have more or less decided on an Explorer as my GADA for the reasons youre talking about. I generally think, if based in london, dont walk around with anything you couldn't buy a replacement of comfortably. If i get the rolex stolen it wont be a particularly big deal for me personally, wouldnt currently be the same with an RM etc
i've made a small adaption to live in london. i just wear a sleeve. shirt or coat. for the summer i've been wearing a pelagos. i hope this is under the radar or cheap enough to be safe to wear
I'm from the UK, but I emigrated to the US in 2009. The UK seems to have taken a pretty sharp nosedive in the last few years, and it is very sad to watch.
This sort of behavior would be unthinkable where I live now.
It really has taken a huge nosedive, it’s tragic that such a great city is going in this direction, but there is no denying it.
@@rob_m I'm from Birmingham, and I hear that's pretty awful now too
@@thepenultimateninja5797 haven’t been there in a while but it has probably deteriorated like London, hopefully not as aggressively.
@@rob_m Most of the people I know don't go into the city center unless they absolutely have to. Lots of crime, and also lots of 'zombies' on that spice drug.
I'm happy to wear any of my watches anywhere I go, and I live in a dreaded "flyover state", blessed with so much that people in big cities seem to go without, including safety. Glock is good insurance as well 😆
Yes sir, my watch comes with free bullets. Not the cartridges, nope, the bullets themselves.
@@IDKline haha! What I meant was the cartridge gets separated and ejected when a robber takes my watch… in any case, always a fan of mixed loads. Still laughing as I tile this!!!
@@IDKline No worries mate! All in good spirit.
Luxury watch = much prettier than the Richard Mille, hahaha. Another interesting essay!
my favourite watches are my Bremont (3K), Omega (6K) and Breitling Navitimer (8K). I am happy wearing my Bremont all the time and on holiday, although it's a beautiful watch. My Omega I would tend only wear in better parts of London and my Navitimer is really for premium going out with my wife to a nice place. My collection is far cheaper than watch enthusiasts and probably most of those reading here, but I don't feel comfortable in some of the parts of London my wife likes to go to markets when wearing a t-shirt and the Omega or Breilting. I am less worried about the professional thieves (which tend to target tourists around expensive shops or rich looking people in expensive areas when there is no one else around) and more for casual thieves with a knife or in a young gang. That's just me.
Lucky never to think about this in Switzerland
It would be very helpful if you could let us know the company with whom you insure your watches above retail. Thanks.
They’re on my household insurance… but Maunders provided me with a valuation certificate (they charge for the valuation), which was accepted by my household insurers.
@@watchenthusiastlondon Thank you so much for taking the time to reply. Most helpful. Thank you.
I say always have a beater watch you can wear. Intercity. Stop the crime and prevent your safety from a theif😊
It is indeed all in your mind. The likelihood of it happening is very very slim. I live in London and I wear expensive watches, and I have never felt concerned. Not once. The 'problem' really has been blown out of all proportion by the likes of Paul Thorpe. Rampant paranoia. Like any big city, there will be crime; but it is a bit like the 'more likely to be eaten by a shark' analogy. Enjoy your watches, otherwise don't buy them. To add, if you see a modern watch on sale without box/papers there is a 95% chance it has been stolen. Very few box/papers have been 'lost in a house move'. I refuse to buy modern watches without box/papers because I do not want to encourage criminality and it would feel wrong to walk around with another person's stolen watch on my wrist.
You’re describing yourself as how I used to feel ! Great to be reminded of that perspective. Thank you.
@@watchenthusiastlondon Welcome!
I don't recognise the London Paul Thorpe describes. What next? Never wear a suit, never stay at a nice hotel, never dine at a nice restaurant, for fear of these eagle-eyed, x-ray visioned criminals that can zoom-in on the brand & model of a watch from 20m on a speeding moped according to Paul. Be safe and stick to a casio, tracksuit, Wetherspoons and Travelodge? Nah, I'm not living like that and don't. I enjoy Paul's vids but he's full of it.
@@adamdavidson6489 Thank you Adam. Paul does not live in London and has never lived in London (I have known him for over twenty years). I don't actually know what problem he has with London. The number of violent watch muggings in London is extremely extremely small, and easily avoided with half a brain. 'Watch thefts' includes a multitude of different scenarios, including the huge number of watch insurance scams. 'Oh, I had my Rolex nicked/burgled' etc etc.... The number of 'watch thefts' that were violent is very very few. More likely to be eaten by a shark etc. I have lived in London for most of my life and it is a very safe city. I just hate people like Thorpe making it sound like the Wild West. It isn't. 98% of violent crimes in London are between people who know each other. Fact. Random strangers are EXTREMELY unlikely to be attacked. Thorpe shows his violent videos, but these are extremely isolated and rare cases. I neither love nor hate London, it is just where I live, but I do want the city to be portrayed fairly. This is not the Bronx etc.
I wear a nasty looking beat up old and the cheapest Casio when I’m out of the house these days. It isn’t only London that has a watch theft problem. I’ve seen a guy robbed of an ordinary gshock here in Sydney on the train system. My other watches that I value are only worn in the house for now. I’m ok with that. But .. I was targeted by a burglar earlier this year .. long story short they got nothing but the shock of their life, with a crowbar across their bow. Secure your watches and your home too folks! Trust me it’s not fun to be robbed at home or on the street.
This is a media driven thing. Who buys stollen watches? Drug dealers and other criminals. There are so many watches that look exactly like the most popular model the Submariner that being targeted for a genuine one is unlikely. Your mobile phone is more likely to be stolen. The no1 thing that is going to get someone mugged is their own attitude walking around. If you are nervous about your safety you are far more likely to be a target...
Used phones for the most part aren't worth much of anything. They're obsolete by the time they hit High Street. Watches are timeless, and properly maintain can last for hundreds of years. No compassion. For me, I really don't care if a robber wants to steal my mobile phone. I'm retired and really don't want to be bothered with ANY phone calls, period!
People are getting popped on the head with hammers in the chelsea area. I was waking in that area and saw two guys on mopeds that looked like they were cruising for a soft target very recently. I really enjoyed 4 years of hulk ownership but as someone who walks through London I could no longer wear it without 360 degree awareness at all times, so what’s the point. Sold it. My girly had a gold JLC reverso and I do worry about her sometimes.
Pretty strong correlation between strong 2nd Amendment areas and lack of watch theft.
👏👏👏 Well said!
Since in the UK, citizens cannot carry guns, so I recommend carrying a small handled aluminum frying pan. Since it has a loop in the handle, you can hook it on your belt, ready for action if the need arises. I know this sounds ridiculous, but I have one under the seat of my car, and I'm a former American cop. If the Metropolitan Police stop and question you about the frying pan, tell them you keep it handy when you cook you lunch! Believe me, a frying pan is better weapon than a police night stick or truncheon, and it is legal! After all, you have to eat.
I was thinking that as well with the barber shop robbery scene. You can't pull out a knife and expect to be taken seriously where I live in the US. But then again, most criminals have as much access to firearms as I do. Sadly, I choose carefully when traveling to larger US cities.
Pretty strong correlation between gun control areas and lack of school shootings
People SHOULD be able to wear whatever they want (watches in this case). However in the real world if you are walking around affluent areas like Mayfair of Kensington with a watch over £5000.00, you are potentially gonna be a target. Sad but true.
I always think about the possibility of getting robbed of my watch, i live in sweden. I atleast hide my Rollies in alot of situations, i choose not to wear it alot also. I work in a area with alot of criminals, if id work in a safe area id wear it alot more.
Respectfully, why not get a travel pouch/case for your watch and carry it in your briefcase? I often work with my hands, and I put my watch away as to prevent accidents and damage.
This has worked for me for over 40 years.
The 31k of watches stolen since 2018, it would be interesting to see a table of the makes & models that make up that sum for reference. I should imagine the gangs in hot spot areas are only looking for those few top brands for the most financial return. Question would a 5k Omega still be of interest in these areas, and if not, how about outside of these areas to the ramdom theif/opertunest.??
Here in the States…..I carry ALL the time. Try to take my watch and i will perforate you.
Wonderful video about an unfortunate topic. Frankly, I'm surprised it has taken so long for thieves to focus on premium watches considering the trends toward conspicuous consumption. Be safe.
This makes me think. How do people recognise luxury watches. I can understand that some watches shout expensive. Like Rolex but are there some expensive watches that would be understated. Or do they listen to conversations about how expensive they are, or do they hang around expensive restaurants or venues and assume watches worn are probably expensive. I'm looking at watches that I think only watch geeks might know about.
It’s interesting, because I am drawn to understated timepieces…
@@watchenthusiastlondon I have been too in the past, but since I feel part of the watch community, I'd thought it would be nice to get a few watches I also like, that would say to the others, HI YA, I'M ONE OF YOU GUYS. I'd thought of a Black Bay or a Murph. But we need to be careful. Murph is probably more under the radar.
I think this is also part of the reason why i like to go for the more unusual watches/watch brands
Me too , plus I hate having the same watch as someone else in the room and the attention from none watch enthusiasts.
@@PabloTBrave If having the same watch as someone else in the room is your biggest concern, you must have a great life.
@@justmeeagainn I didn't say it was my biggest concern , I didn't even imply it, keep your sarky comment to yourself.
Just because a Rolex falls under RRP doesn't mean its not a good payday for the thieves. Its still a win for them.
I'm luckily enough to live in Tenerife which is extremely low crime and I've only heard (anecdotally) heard of 2 watches being stolen in 7 years.. Both in the same 'rough' area of late night drugs and drunken brits abroad area
However when travelling as we did a world cruise this year and will be doing another next January I'm unlikely to bother with my Rolex unless I'm in somewhere safe(Japan, Dubai or Singapore etc)
I'm in Uk a few times later on in the year (Newbury & Oxford) so feel reasonably safe: but into London? Hmm no I'll wear a unknown microbrand instead. It's not just watches of course, everything of value is a target. Crime is rampant and isn't under control or ever likely to be. The creep to become a mini America is very disheartening.. Its the frog in a saucepan situation..
But overall yes anything that makes you circumspect has a detrimental mental affect even subconsciously . I left the UK in 2015 one of the main reasons was the rapidly increasing decay in society standards.
My Partner is from the Baltic states, travelling around there you realise how badly the West has failed in its keeping people safe. Its quite sickening . I fear for my daughters and their kids futures and constantly urge them to leave the UK far behind if at all possible.
Thanks for sharing 🙏
Agreed. Good point.
Someone tried to steal my watch. About 10 minutes later they came back with my watch and a bundle of cash and he told me to “go out and get something decent!”
i wonder now wich watch you had
The justice system is to blame, we way to soft on criminals, I bet if we went back a few centuries and cut of one’s thieving hand they wouldn’t do it again or couldn’t.
How do you do that its over and here ?
Like you said use your discretion, be street wise, be conscious of your surroundings.
If you are weary of your surroundings .
If you have a man bag put your hand under your man bag ,which would be putting your hand in your pocket.
Some people are pretty naive and get to comfortable on the street like there in there house.
Quite surprised insurance fraud isn’t even mentioned in these campfire stories.
Indeed
It just shows that England, and very much all of western Europe has degressed into developed countries. I have never heard about those things coming from Europe in the previous decades. Pickpocketing, yes, but never serious physical threat with knives and machetes. But here we are today with Moped gangs and being mugged broad daylight. That's just beyond sadness.
Where I live you can wear a million dollar watch and no theft. In fact many people wear PP, AP,Rolex, etc. In London I would NOT do this and would wear my most low key Seiko.
Where do you live ?
@@watchenthusiastlondon Must be Singapore or Saudi Arabia. They don't tolerate crime in those places.
@@alexp3752 Shanghai 🤙🏻
Man, I'll stay in Tokyo. Eff this. But I hope I can live in London or elsewhere sometime.
Osaka is nicer. 🙂
@@richardbartlett6932 agreed!
There needs to be a much harsher punishment for robbery. minimum 5 years and minimum 10 if violence is used. then it may be that the idiots think about it an extra time
These days "criminals" don't really care about going to jail, and stricter laws (in this case) aren't much of a deterrent, as desperate (or ruthless) people do as they please....
The risk of getting caught is tiny in London, there's no cops, so even with harsher punishment, there still would be masses of youngsters trying for something. The % of solved robberies must go up quite a lot before it has any effect.
Then you have increase all sentences proportionally, and build new prisons for the overflow of prisoners.
With respect, the sentencing for robbery (as opposed to simple/shop theft) is pretty fair. Produce or actually use a knife and you’re looking at 4-12 years in the sentencing guidelines (not including any ABH, GBH, GBH w/ intent charges), so your ideal isn’t that far off reality. The real issue (especially with these moped gangs in London) is the small likelihood of actually getting caught.
I would say it becomes a common sense knowledge you should not wear a recognisable expensive watch or any luxury item when travelling into I'll famed areas, in this case many parts of London, in my case some parts of Dublin.
I would consider either switching to a microbrand or (relatively) cheap brand such Hamilton or so when planning to be in the heart of big cities or at least be careful not to expose myself about what watch I was wearing.
However this does not impede me in wearing my Rolexes or Cartier when I go in safe areas or while at work where I feel I'm in a safer environment.
That being said I am still very careful if posting on personal social media details about my whereabouts if I were wearing a very recognisable timepiece.
I always apreciate your videos as insightful and providing food for thought.
Regards!
Thank you 🙏it seems that we loudly agree…
"where your treasure is, there your heart is also" - life is too short to live with this kind of constant fear for just a little box of metal scraps. This kind of vigilance should be reserved for worthwhile things like keeping your kids out of traffic or scanning the windows for things falling into your wife. It's pointlessly harmful to your emotional health to own them if you feel this way. Collect seikos instead.
I used to travel with my 1975 Rolex date just. No more. Now either a Movado or Phillip watch. Both quartz
That GS is a beauty. It’s enraging that thieves can’t be dealt with appropriately. I believe that Victorian gentleman could carry a sword-cane or firearm. This option is no longer available. If you can’t be a porcupine then best be a chameleon.
Thieves don't study your watch before they steal it, so, sadly, even blingy, $50 Chinese Rolex/Omega clones can put you at risk.
I don't travel any more, but when I did, I had a "collection" of $20 plastic quartz watches for walking around in dodgy areas. I actually had a guy offer to buy one of them in a resort town in Mexico; apparently they weren't available there. (This was pre-internet.). He was a food vendor in the village, and a great guy, so I gave it to him.
This video is mostly talking about 5-10-20 thousand dollar watches, but consider that even a $500 watch represents a "free" $100 for a low-level thief, easily turned over in a pawn shop and largely untraceable.
In general, watches, along with cellphones, are the only items of concentrated value that we carry around. In London, at least, no one is going to steal your shoes.
Errr, well I have sometimes wondered about my Church's shoes?
I’m bothered that I might be putting my family in harms way in due to my some sort of avarice on my part but want to be able to have and enjoy some nice things that I’ve strived for
Crazy that in London you have all of this crime and around the corner you have the royal family and the home of Government, some how it seems crime is tolerated and brushed under the carpet.