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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ก.พ. 2025
- Were my previous Ryzen 3000 and Navi leaks really "too good to be true", as reported at certain outlets?
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Nobody makes big picture market analysis videos more palatable than you do. My understanding has quadrupled in the past year, from your channel alone.
By tying the thousands of, seemingly intentional loose threads, you have earned credence, time and time again.
I appreciate your efforts. Thank you.
Dan Willhite I agree on so many levels
@@ronaldmcshitpipe lol :')
@@ronaldmcshitpipe no wonder with that shape AMD GPU has atm. Nobody wants a power hog or even medium range GPU with relatively high consumption. Hopefully Navi will be way better, then Radeon is actually considerable again
Another extremely well done video, Jim! Your first video about the 3000 series leak sure put the cat among the pigeons. You created a buzz and EVERYONE in the tech press has your name on their lips. And then you come back with a well done defense of your original work. Bravo!
Let's see how they scatter now!
As always, don't go running around harassing other press guys who disagree with me...disagreements are fine and I do actually hold Joel @Extremetech in high regard.
Also I messed up my maths a bit in this one a couple of times regarding the 1800X and 2700X. The point doesn't really change, however, my numbers should be a bit lower though.
@Politically WOKE Hindus bun
I was watching Hardware Unboxed's take on the leaks (and they think the specs are unlikely) but the important thing is they were respectful and professional about it. Nobody was being attacked personally. It's okay to disagree, having everyone check each other's work is a really good thing.
I guess we will know for sure when the products finally come out.
I think a big problem is tech outlets are only looking at clockspeeds and not the IPC improvements as well. They're like "why would AMD sell an 'equal' part etc..." but they're only taking into accounts clockspeed.
@@robertwave612 I watched that too and while I like that they didn't atack and just speculate about the leaks, I think it was not professional at all :) Thinking about 50% more cores + higher frequency is nothing unusual knowing, how was targeted 14nm process and what frequencies are expected at 7nm. 2 years ago I already knew, that Ryzen frequencies are low and the only reason for that is "slow" 14nm process. 28nm AMD CPUs could easily reach 5GHz on all cores if they had good enough cooling system :) Meanwhile Samsung's 14nm process (Global Foundries bought it) target was low power at max 3GHz clock. And if you take a look at current Ryzen procesors, at 3GHz they are way more efficient than Intel. Just selling them at this frequency would be not possible. It was better to "overclock" them, rising a bit frequency and paying in dramatic power draw increasement.
7nm process targets 5GHz, so up to this frequency it can be pretty efficient. Maybe not as much as low power, low frequency process would be, but smaller gates mean next efficiency improvement anyway.
@@robertwave612 Tim made comments that were less than respectful. I'd have to go back and watch the video which I don't plan on doing, but I recall the sentiment that he could have doubted Jim's claims or reasoning without his choice of words or description. It wasn't often during the video but it was less than subtle.
Considering the RTX 2080 Ti costs $1200 and there are people defending that, it's no wonder that people aren't believing the leak.
Sounds like they have buyers remorse for buying something so blatantly over priced.
*No.*
*People have just gotten so used, to Intel's tiny incremental upgrades (and/or ridiculously overpriced products), that something as good as this, almost frighteningly seems in the realm of fantasy.* 😁
well said my friend!
Yup. We been screwed so hard for so long by these companies that it does seem like fantasy.
But look at what we were offered when 1st gen ryzen came compared to what Intel were offering at the time.. They were world's apart in price, Intel were forced to change their pricing plan.
Same will happen here too, and Amd will claw back an even greater chunk or the market. Hopefully this will wake up the remaining fan boys of Intel and they'll finally see how much they got fucked the last 5 years or so.
Yea.. true. both CPU market and GPU market been stagnet for almost 5 years now... and when it for once moved like it use to do 15 years ago, people just can´t belive it..
Also worth noting, this is really winning back preformance that was losed in the Sandy bridge day and as far back as the Pentium III days
>Intel's tiny incremental upgrades
So, Zen to Zen+ upgrade doesn't count as "tiny incremental upgrade"? Or RX480 to RX580?
@@TheCrystalPRO same chips, same architecture..... It was ONE year, clearly AMD is releasing new chips for both CPU and GPU on new architecture with massive improvements. Intel on the other hand has changed architectures and had over 10 CPU refresh cycles and die shrinks with what? Think before you leave a comment thinking you are witty
You've become quite a sensation Jim, and I've seen first hand in investor forums how much bias people can display against you for your efforts. I just wanted to voice my support. I haven't gamed in decades, but I appreciate everything you do to analyze directions in CPU/GPU tech. As an investor in AMD, I find it very informative, it adds additional perspective to other sources and aspects of the business. I appreciate all your efforts, I can tell it is a labor of love. You're a man of great character in so many ways. Great job, keep it up. I'll know where to turn for some ideas if I ever build a computer again for my sons as they grow up. Cheers!
Cheers bud.
r/AMD_Stock is a critical lot for sure. (If that’s where you’re referring to when you say forums).
@@romevang Yeah, there are really strong opinions on AMD vs. Intel vs. Nvidia in comments on articles related to investing in these companies.
Yes lets go im going to build a pc in 2019 at age 13 with these leaks these are pc builders dream
i guess there still are pc enthusiasts on the younger side. the line has not yet ended
People are so used to get ripped off for performance that they started to think that it's all a hoax. They are not realising that this level of performance at that price is possible.
@bad4ever2010 yep.
Yeah, it's almost as if technology...... Advances
Heresy! My grandfather used horses and carts, my father used horses and carts, and we will use horses and carts, my children will use horses and carts.
In all seriousness, I don't get why people think there won't be a significant increase just from a die shrink? I see alot of people touting very incremental frequency upgrades and less than 5% increase to IPC.
It's not just possible, it used to be less than the norm. Literal doubling of performance at the same price, maybe add $5-$20 in some cases, take away $5-20 if the competition was very close (most notably in the GPU space when we had 5 companies vying for our money).
Once, _if_ , AMD gets to market parity (or there-aboutd), then we will absolutely see a larger price increase and a smaller performance uplift. This is how you fight and claw back into the game.
One thing that could stagnate prices while still seeing decent improvements would be, of all companies, Intel, taking a similar strategy as AMD forcing Nvidia to lower prices, as the company that controls the midrange will control the home consumer market, and frankly, $350-$600 for 2060-2070 prices is not going to hold that market. Another competitor will just expediate the process.
New to the channel, but after watching a ton of your videos, and listening to what you have to say about it all, I’m very impressed and the way you present your information make it at the very least seem accurate, you provide information that make it seem more than just a guess or shot in the dark, and at the very least and educated guess. Keep up the good work!
They key is he does not repeat other channels stuff and does his own!
Completely agree. He always presents his logic as to WHY he argues/believes as he does. It makes it easy to argue for and against. To me, the logic seems reasonable. :-)
Welcome to the "Alright guys how's it going" channel :)
@@octapc And, "I'll catch you later guys!"
'seem accurate', dude, the information is laid out so that the viewer can conduct their own investigation- as should be done with ALL supposed facts, even in politics!!
At least it looks like you're being properly credited this time :)
The Adored empire grows. One day everyone will greet each other with "Oldite howzeet gawin?".
awright guys howzit gowin'
Now we have sex core processor for just a hand rest dollar.
Some day in the future, the Adored empire will merge the Isaac Arthur empire for the glory of Scottish accents. :D
@@p_serdiuk I have never had any issue with Jim's accent (he's totally understandable - unless you're an Amurrican) but I stopped watching Isaac Arthur. It wasn't English... it was some other language?!
Or this channel could become the biggest liar among tech channel...
Ryzen 3 1200 - 4 cores 65 W
Ryzen 7 1700 - 8 cores 65 W
Ryzen 7 even has higher clockspeed.
Conclusion: first gen ryzen is clearly fake and never happened. Its all a conspiracy.
First generation Ryzen were worst case scenario according to AMD themselves.
it's a TDP, it's the max designed heat capacity
@@Acky0078 tell intel that...
You missed one large elephant in the room.
IGPU.
That is why they are the same in TDP.
From the rumors those that have the same tdp do not have igpu's.
AMD fanboys are dumber than a box of rocks.
@@phillip_iv_planetking6354 What are you talking about, neither have IGPU man. Only the 2200G and 2400G only have IGPU, not the 1200 or 1700. It is you who missed something, try reading the specs lol.
Wait, so you're saying AMD intentionally leaked this information to gauge how we felt about the prices... And because we didn't believe them and felt it 'was too good to be true' they are going to use that to increase prices because it seem more realistic?
That hurts.
Yep, that and how the tech press reacts; i.e. they can price higher and still get good press.
@@lucidnonsense942 or they can sell the cpu's at this price and sell a lot of CPU's, even to people who bought a recent intel cpu. I think, it is more important for them to increase the number of installed AM4 Systems then make an extra 20$ on the chips.
A tech company leaking information is normal.
Yes marketing at it's best. That's why for these kind of things regarding pricing most people either need to STFU, say it's a fair market value, or wish if there were any chance of it being lower. Marketing will go back and only be able to say those prices seem set and the top heads will further decide to add more or stick with the leaks. Of course as the videos have mentioned +$50 is a high probability.
@@jaredgarbo3679 I get that leaks are normal, but to do a leak and then use the potential customers to justify a price hike because they don't believe a lower one... Never heard of that before.
If it's true we basicly told AMD to charge us more.
People are so beaten down by intel and nvidia monopoly that they consider that kind of thing to good to be true. To the point that amd will likely see this sentiment and raise prices.
Very sad.
But good for AMD OTOH. Let them have their cake. They deserve every dollar they claw back from intel, since all that "too good to be true" money people see as justiuified on top of the leaked prices is what money one would expect were there no competition.
either way, if there's one thing we do know for sure is that AMD chips will always be less expensive than what intel has to offer. which is of course a good thing
thats a great point. AMD is a company after all while they are always for the little guy. Even they aren't immune to lure of greed when they can get away with it.
It really hurts knowing that those "To good to be true" Intel buyers are literally making us AMD buyers pay more because of their incompetence and lack of forward thinking. Truly is a shame that Intel wins even when AMD has done all the work. Gotta love the broken nature of recovering from a monopolized market huh?.....
This pessimistic behaviour is result of years of stagnation by intel and horrific overpricing by Nvidia. People cant believe that they can get anything at fair price.
Anything you have shown in the videos doesn’t seem far fetched at all. Node shrink, move to TSMC, Extra money for R&D, and Chiplet design. How is it “too good to be true”.
I know Vega hype train crashed but people, for some stupid reason, had some impossible expectations. I don’t know about navi, but I am confident Zen 2 wont disappoint.
"people, for some stupid reason, had some impossible expectations"
Because we looked at what AMD did with the CPU market, and assumed they could do the same with GPUs.
Nathan Gamble that is the problem. What AMD managed in CPU market was because Intel did almost nothing for a decade and AMD failed with Bulldozer. But Nvidia never stopped innovating. They just jacked up the prices to cash in the lack of competition. Also AMD had decent GPUs. The gap between AMD and Nvidia was not as huge as AMD and Intel.
@@nathangamble125 not at the same time tho. Not with very finite budgets.
I'm so excited for the actual reveal. Can you imagine an APU with Vega 20? GTX 1050 Ti performance in an APU?
Everyone just wait till it's released, until then we can see whether its gonna be better than nvidia or not
Plot twist: the leaker is actually Dr. Lisa Su. She reads all the "too good to be true" comments and articles and goes "well ok then, let's just add 50 bucks here and 100 bucks there" :P
Congratulations, we played ourselves ;)
lol 😂I can certainly imagine this being the case.
I like this comment.
Then at those prices it doesn't quite make sense to replace those parts of my system reading a couple comments on youtube is not a correct way to do a pricing study. I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt and say they have a consumer research group who knows that
You.... I like you
@Manny Santiago I could not agree more. AMD has had a tough road, it is time for them to get the market share they deserve. Keeping prices down will make this happen.
14:40 you did the math wrong its a slash of about 33% not 66%. Prices were cut TO 66% of original.
And in the article should be TO 54% (slashing BY 46%).
explain the 33% please
@@accelerator5524 Yeah, it's 34% actually. Probably put 33 because it looks nicer next to 66 or something :D
@@accelerator5524 329/499=0.6593... so 329 is ~66% of the 499
@@aleksandarudovicic4232 thats what i thought too;D
AMD if you read this. Try to get your brand logo on the next Playstation and XBOX. So people who havent heard of you ever in their life will notice you. No need to thanks me ;D
Or powered by AMD when the PS logo shows up when starting up.
I wonder what that would cost ? I would love to see that !
If nvidia couldn't do it on the ps3 or the switch then AMD isn't getting it on ps5
@@BenjerminGaye Getting AMD branding on the PS5 is not as far-fetched a possibility as you may think. Look on the side of any normal Wii, which would be facing up if the Wii were placed on it's side feet. You will notice a certain logo on the top left: ATi. Just think about it. If little old ATi could get their logo emblazoned on the side of one of the best-selling home consoles in history, then it's absolutely possible for AMD to do something similar for the PS5.
@Lucas Silva You mean buy or influence others to buy AMD CPU's? :P
TLDR: Someone from AMD used Jim to run a market research on the new Ryzen prices. So shut up with the "its too good to be true". Otherwise, AMD will turn into Intel and jack the prices.
To late
God damn those prices are too damn high! Better?
@@johngray3449 Yes better and I agree with you, the prices are TOO DAMN HIGH :))
That's exactly what I'm thinking, and I think they will increase prices a bit.
What's going on with them Ryzen 3000 prices?
Why they so high?
35:12 plot twist: leaker are amd themselves testing the water on pricing.
I'm wondering if these leaks were AMD testing their prices. If so we have failed the test and pretty much demanded higher prices^^
I think that this leak will be pretty close, but with small increase in prices. People are used to getting robbed by intel and don't seem to think they deserve any better.
@@Tomas-qn5im it's quite sad but I fully agree
If that happens I'd just go spend an extra 50 bucks on an nvidia card I had my eyes on anyways just out of principle
But that also means that we have the most trustworthy source possible.
In the light of this, I find it very interesting that nobody really talks about the Navi parts. I actually find the Navi parts the most interesting. If correct, they would absolutely obliterate anything Nvidia has to offer in their market segments. In my opinion those Navi chips make a greater leap than what Zen did to Excavator (4th gen Bulldozer). And yet many of the few people commenting on that say more or less that it's not good enough.
Just look at this guy Matt K above me. He's decided that if AMD "only" offers 40% more performance per dollar compared to Nvidia instead of 50-60% as this leak suggest - not mentioning the significant cut in power draw - he will buy something from Nvidia "just out of principle".
I don't blame AMD if they exit the gaming graphics card market and only stick to integrated, workstation and datacentre. One cannot do business in such an environment.
When you're conditioned to Intel's and NVIDIA's price gouging Zen2 does indeed seem too good to be true. You guys really think that a 9900K is genuinely worth 600EUR or that a 2080ti is genuinely worth 1,200EUR? So yeah, we've all been brainwashed to look at the market with the blue and green tinted glasses.
Fuk!
That's why I'm staying on the old 1080ti until a superior GPU launches under $500.
I paid $700 on 1080ti brand new right before crypto price increase, and sold an r9 380 for $300 a few weeks later so I really only spent $400 on the 1080ti as that was my replacement card in 2017, lol.
27:10 You really missed the chance of throwing the 9900k in there with a 95W TDP.
9900k is a 125W tdp for me
fabio tiburzi Yeah it doesn't run at stock clocks unless you tell it too in the BIOS. A few tech sites reported on why Linus got lower results than everyone else. It's because he tested as per the specs and no one else did.
@@uglyduckling81 i saw that too from GN
especially if you run it with MSI Godlike mobo
@@fabiotiburzi 9900k is more like 135W, its the 8700k thats closer to 115W
Congratulations, you've played yourself.
- Everyone saying the prices where too good to be true.
Fuk
I've seen what the jump to such a small architecture can do. The doubling of cores is no problem. The only issue I have is the clocks at those core counts. Since even with a 4x decrease in architecture size back in the day we never saw core clocks increase this much. I hope to god I'm wrong, because if AMD's this shit off. The industry will F-ing break at that point.
And who doesn't love seeing Nvidia, and Intel shit themselves at the event...
@@TheReal_ist the problem in comparing Ryzen 1k and 2k to 3k lies in the 14nm processes used
1k and 2k were both using a low power optimized 14nm, which is great for mobile parts, but terrible for desktop, so it makes sense that the first Gen stuff couldn't clock high. This new 7nm is not only better in efficiency, but it's frequency and high performance optimized.
I for one, am hoping these rumours hold much waters. I can't wait to see the reveal at CES
14:43 Although I see the point you a trying to make and it is indeed a valid one, I think your math is a bit off. The launch price of the 1800x ($499) minus the price of the 2700x at launch ($329) gives you $170 in decline, which when removed from the $499 total of the 1800x is 35%, not 65% (explanation: 170 / 499 = 0.34 or 34%)
It was already acknowledged on a comment above yours.
Was thinking of the same... :P
@@bobouistic except that this comment is older.
@@hurrdurrimaburr you would think so, until you read comments and realised, there are older posts with the question answered, not just the one post you saw somewhere that you used as a reference to my comment.
@@bobouistic You're the one who reference the marked comment at the top jackass. Obviously I'd reference that one since it's what you mentioned.
You can sum up most of the disagreement with the leak with "What? Actual product improvement year-over-year? Nah, can't be true"
I think a lot of the TDP weirdness is just binning... The 16C chips are TR level binning while the 12C and 8C chips are Ryzen level binning... And the chiplets are so small with the IO removed, they will probably get 70%+ binning at the highest level (EPYC)...
THERMAL Design power
Not max watage input
Draw power depend mainly on vcore voltage. 3GHz 1.2 V cpu draw less than 3GHz 1.45V. More important 4GHz 1.0V woud draw the least power Ofc. all sets on the same cpu
So funny to see tech press being so faithful in Intel's 4 core 10 year stagnation
I'm really disappointed in people and especially tech press.... again. Is the 3700X at slightly higher clocks with 50% more cores at the same price to compete with Intel's monopoly really 'too good to be true'? On a brand new process mind you! Something that only happens every few years! What was AMD supposed to do? Release another 8-core CPU at the same price? Wouldn't people be furious we didn't get any extra cores on a brand new process? Intel brainwashed people to the point they only want extra 5% each generation and anything better is 'too good to be true'. It's insane.
I was incredibly disappointed with Joel@ET's 'critique' of these leaks. When I suggested he should research the reasoning behind the conclusions made, he replied quite dismissively with "why should I waste my time?". The internet's tech millennials not taking their jobs seriously while expecting to have their opinions treated as divine revelation is the reason AdoredTV is adored TV.
Keep it up Jim, you're doing real work.
"ExtremeTech": This is impossible!!
"AdoredTV": Hold my beer.
My thought haha!
LMAO !
Or, perhaps, "my Scotch", if he *is* really that kind of Scot.
It's fun to watch with hindsight and see how leakers have partial info, without more pieces of the puzzle wrong implications can be drawn.
Chiplets without an i/o die would need massive design changes and become mini-monolithic, that thing has a job to do. I guess a small GloFo i/o chiplet for Ryzen simply didn't inspire loose talk, there must be a lot of small dull glue chip custom designs knocking around at a foundry.
Right now we're expecting the Navi31/32 MCM designs and the GPU architecture simply isn't obvious though a decoupling of i/o from the compute/cache makes sense.
I don't see why other outlets decided to jump on this, if there are 2 coroborating leaks and one of them (Jim) happens to have a reputation and contacts with insider, I wouldn't be so quick to critisize, i'd just wait till release.
Another awesome video! Wheres that hardware unboxed comment this time we know they will try to get paid for another reaction video >.> frigging leaches...
While the leaks do sound very good, they aren't in any way ridiculously good, but rather well within the realm of possible, as Jim so excellently points out in the video. But I do understand a healthy dose of scepticism regarding the leaks as, especially price wise, they do sound very good. It is also an inevitability that there is content for and against, both generate clicks/views, so it is hardly surprising. Some may even run both stories to get more views.
It also bears mentioning that comparing Epyc performance metrics (from slides) to Ryzen performance metrics may not be totally accurate. For example, you can see in the power-frequency chart (MI25-MI60 slide) that 14nm not only starts at a higher power consumption, but also turns higher much faster. So that 1.25x, at Epyc-speeds, for same power, may be 1.35x performance for same power for 1-2 GHz higher frequencies.
@Defeqel I think a lot of people just can't accept that AMD will likely be taking the crown from Intel in every part of the CPU market for performance and price, if only until Intel releases 10nm.
@@Angel_Zodiac Intel Has already shown that changing die size doesn't do any real meaningful performance gain for them look how many refresh chips we've gone through in such a short time just for them to be where they are now. Sure it helps power consumption thermals and clock speed but even Haswell could do 5ghz. 10nm that 5% at best gain will still look the same on gaming benchmarks im sure. Intel brought this on them self when Amd comes out swinging with the 7nm chips the cpu market may be changed forever.
@josh pashia I'm hoping so. Intel needs a kick in the ass so they actually are forced to be competitive again.
You made a small mistake with the price comparison from 1800X vs 2700X - it's 34% less not 66%. Other than that great video. Looking forward to new AMD hardware... times never been so interesting @ CPUs!
"absolute horse shettt" ahahaha, love it mate! :D
Where?
The Navi prices seem more believable today than they were a week ago. Why? Because AMD cards have gotten cheap since then.
1) RX580 for 250EUR? That's 50EUR cheaper than the cheapest 1060 GB (and WAY cheaper than the 580 was EVER priced).
2) 350EUR for a Vega56? That's cheaper than the 1070 has EVER been, which was 450EUR.
3) And a Vega64 for 450EUR? Downright amazing. Remember when the Vega64 used to be 900EUR when it released? Then with the mining craze it jumped up to a ludicrous 1200EUR? Vega64 now only costs 37.5% of its original price 12 months ago.
AMD really seems to be trying to get rid of all their stock. This price drop is even better considering the 1080's are running out of stock. Lowest GTX1080 right now is 650EUR. That's so not worth the price.
EDIT: So to all the people claiming that a 250USD GTX1080 + 15% equivalent card is overhyping it: Let's even give you the benefit of the doubt say it'll be 50 bucks more at 300USD. So right now you can buy a GTX1080 equivalent card for 450EUR (it always costs more in the EU). So this Navi RX3080 will probably cost sth like 350EUR here. So we end up with a card that's 15% more powerful and costs only 100EUR less. Doesn't look unbelievable to me at all. I'm not getting too hyped, but I do think this isn't "out of touch" either.
I can picture Dr. Lisa Su typing away messages from a nondescript email address to Jim from AdoredTV. 😂
Love your videos Jim, i'll take your analysis over anyone else on the Internet, YOU JUST KNOW YOUR STUFF THROUGH. But i will suggest you something and i hope you don't get it the wrong way, but you don't have to make your statements valid by debating/debunking anyone. Just let time give you the right. Keep it up Jim!
TBH I think it makes for an amusing video when Jim goes to town on them, could watch these vids all day long.
He should debunk more often
The feeling when your brain expects an intro or ad 30 seconds into the video, but instead you just get the content. I realized that I was subconsciously waiting for one, during which I could pick up my coffee cup. Weird how you get used to these TH-cam things.
Great video, as always!
I love the Die per wafer calculator! it has become my favorite part of the videos. May the Die per Wafer Calculator be in every AdoredTV episode!
But Seriously keep up the good work man, love the channel
All hail the diaper wafer calculator!
Subtitles are amazing in these videos.
Jim, great video as always. You got me almost persuaded, but for my own sanity, I will reserve my judgement till the launch. Even if it is true, in my eyes it is too good, and will be great. Just don't want to be overexcited to be disappointed :D
Hi Jim. Congratulations on becoming the most talked about topic in the tech press since your last AMD leaked video. Must of watched more then a dozen videos and news articles referencing your video. You are really making a name for yourself, which is much deserved. Keep up the great work! :)
Any argument that revolves around "AMD *won't* do because...." is already weak. AMD has been insanely aggressive with Ryzen so far. They could have been far more profitable in 2017/2018 if they just sold Ryzen at a higher price; people would have accepted the R3 1300 as a "high-end" CPU for ~$200-250 in 2017. It isn't about immediate profit. AMD is trying to change its reputation as the "good enough" budget option.
In the business world, reputation is just as important as the product itself. AMD is doing everything it can to take mindshare, so the question isn't *will* AMD try to undercut Intel by an entire tier. It is *can* they.
So, how long has Lisa Su been sending you emails?
Lol
Jim found himself a sugar mamma 😍
@@baronvonlimbourgh1716 lol
I'm startinf to think Jim is some relative of her
Hahaha 😂 🤣 Now the "prices are too good to be true" guys will be paying more for these products. Ingenious plan, Dr. Su!
Articulate and straight to the point with empiric data to back it up,... Jim, you're the Eminem of the tech press 😂
PS: No one should spam the guys that Jim disagrees with. Everyone makes mistakes and this so good to be true is quite understandable since the CPU market has stagnated for so long due to there being no competition!
Adored: Afforable CPUs!
Tech Press: We demand Intel strategy from AMD!
AMD: **shrugs** Let´s raise price by 30%.
Awesome vid Jim!!! I actually saw when you uploaded this but youre hours ahead of me and i was half asleep and fell asleep watching it T_T.
Lol but now that I've finally watched all of this, I have to say it all makes sense when you look at both the technology and the economics. Thanks for taking the time out to go over this. I feel as if, as you said, leaks like this are done to gauge public opinion and thoughts while still not committing to anything. And I think your leakers see how good you are at analysis. putting things together, and explaining all of this to your niche crowd which then eventually boils over into the mainstream.
I think youre slowly but surely making a bigger name for yourself in the tech press Jim. I see someone here talking about being here since 50k subs, personally been here since like what? 20k? think it was a little less than that (around the time you transitioned from less gaming and more tech stuff), but the growth is there. I hope you are able to spread out into a full fledged tech press agency haha.
Honestly? I do not see TSMC and Global Foundries producing the chiplets and io in seperate places as needing to have any kind of significant additional cost in tact. Shipping is insanely cheap. You could fit 10 billion worth of io dies in a single shipping container. You cannot tell me that the dollar store can justify selling me a 2$ spatula in canada that was manufactured in china, but the most briliant minds in the world can't figure out how to justify the same shipping expense for a $100 part. If someone is going to make the argument that it's not cost effective, i'd like to see an explanation as to why. Take GPU's for example. That $150 gpu has its processor, ram, pcb, etc all manufactured and assembled in different places and that seems to work fine. I'd like to know what you mean by "everybody wanting to get paid along the way", aside from the shipping company, who else is everybody wanting to get paid along the way? BTW love your work, have a great day!
^this. And it also doesn't matter if a part was made in a different part of the same city or on the other end of the world. If it needs to be shipped and stored one is only marginally more expensive than the other. As soon as you assemble at any place that is not right next to the fab, all the dies need to be shipped anyway.
Ahem.
/Loud, obviously awkward
These prices all suck and AMD won't be able to compete at this level.
/Reverse psychology, don't tell AMD
Glen Waldrop AMD is worse than Intel. Intel is solid company, amd has low efficiency heaters. If these prices were 20% lower i would consider switching.
Ahem.
@@bartiz12
Lol
We're gonna get flamed by people that can't read sarcasm
@@glenwaldrop8166 haha I think you made it clear enough in the first comment. I hope!
Yeah man AMD sucks. My pentium g4560 could Zen 2's ass.
*Don't kill me plz*
@@bartiz12 i was about to say wtf are u stupid... took me a while im retarded lul
What people seem to be forgetting is also that zen 2 was supposed to compete with 10nm from Intel. If they didn't have this, they would be outclassed by Intel. Intel simply failed, which is why this looks that much better. As for the prices, remember that AMD NEEDS to get as many Ryzen processors out there as they can, which is also why they are willing to sell at lower prices than they could. They need quantity out there that maximizes profits instead of prices that maximize profits.
Another reason why the prices leaked were that low, is that AMD may well be bringing the chiplet's to Ryzen. I'm looking forward to the Ryzen 7 3700X myself to replace my 1700 in storage abd my current 8700K.
@AdoredTV You just earned yourself a sub with this video! I watch a lot of Tech-tubers and I rarely subscribe. Keep up the fantastic work. The way you break everything down makes it very easy for others to understand. All too often uninformed consumers will see/read other Tech-tubers articles or videos and then cast it aside when they simply do not have enough information. Thanks again and I'll definitely be watching your videos from here on out! Cheers!
Your knowledge is vastly superior to other youtubers. Everyone looked at those leaks from Intel logic point of view.
That's what I got from it. Tim on Hardware Unboxed literally ignored the 1st Ryzen launch while making his claim. Like...tf?
The AMD CES presser is over. Well this is awkward...
Your critics are just using TDP - a marketing tool - to argue with you? While you go into stuff like yield, frequency-power curves, how processes mature, binning, packaging and how all of this, along with TDP rating can be used to create a good marketing strategy based on what is technically possible.
And they just use past intel monopoly marketing strategy as guidance to guess what might makes sense ? ....
To me, THIS is unbelievable ... Not what Jim says.
Click,
Like,
Watch,
Read Comments,
Watch Again, Read comments, see other comments on other tech sites about this vid... It's like reflex ;)
Thats my day today now 😁
@@baronvonlimbourgh1716 lol 😂
Exactly, I hit like before I watch to make sure I don't forget while reading the comment's. Lol. I am confident that his work will always be worth the like
@@tajwatkins5606 even if the stuff in his videos turns out to be false or not completely as he envisioned them, simply the amount of work and care he puts into his videos alone is at least worth a like.
I struggle to name any other online outlet that presents such detailed and well researched content nowdays. And just for that i feel he deserves much more credit then he currently recieves.
Add to that that he up to now always has been right on the money with his leaks and always has been willing to be treated as the outcast within this industry even after being proven right so many times.
Everyone in this community really needs to support him as much as they personally are able to. We where in the position that we have been for years up to a couple of years ago exactly because journalism as an industry has been purged over the last decades from anyone willing to take on the big corperations like jim is doing now.
And believe me, jim is sacrificing huge piles of money in order to do this. With his talent he could easilly follow the pack and be very succesfull there. That would give him a multiple of the amount of subscribers he currently has and would flood his inbox with multiple 4 figure sponsor deals every week.
Jim could easilly be making 300k or more from youtube alone if he changed course and simply became another "influencer", and yet he is willing to be the controversial one and give all that up in order to follow his principals.
No matter if he turns out to be right or wrong, that commitment alone should be rewarded by everyone who also wants this industry to become healthy again and has had enough of all the exploitation and manipulation.
@@baronvonlimbourgh1716preach brother. good research and a good accent!
People criticising the "dropping the price of X cores" aspect... Did they miss how Intel dropped the entry price of 2c4t from $117 to $64 just before Ryzen launched? Or how Intel dropped 4c4t from $187 to $117 later that same year?
People criticising the "they won't get rid of SMT as a differentiator"... Did they miss how Intel eliminated HT as a differentiator from their three mid-market segments in 2017 and 2018 - you don't get HTed quad or hexa-core desktop CPUs from Intel anymore. i3 and i7 used to be HT brands, but don't have it at all anymore...
The Horse Shit part killed me :D It was an absolute Scottish moment :D
I'm still using an i5-3470 and the Ryzen 3600 for under $200 is the bare minimum performance-per-buck I'd consider upgrading to. Anything less is too incremental for my taste. 20 years ago, we used to get double the performance for half the price (~4X performance per buck) every 2-3 years. AMD offering ~50% more performance for about the same prices would be a very welcome change of pace from the 5-7%/year from Intel's past decade.
2:28 Why would it be impractical for them to ship IO dies for the cheaper parts? They would have to ship them for Epyc anyway so they can just throw a bunch more IO dies on the same shipment for the lower cost parts.
If the "too good to be true" becomes true, you won't need marketing. The news will pick up on this as 2019's David vs Goliath. How one company 1/10th the size beat down the incumbent monster.
Common folk will flock to Best Buy asking about this Ryzen thing they heard on the news and won't leave the store without one in their hands.
AMD is not in a position to sit back and not go for the jugular in marketing. They will absolutely fail and repeat history if they don't ghet aggressive in marketing, that goes for the Radeon division as well.
If this whole thing pans out, AMD should slip in the "Too good to be true?" line somewhere at the Ryzen 3000 reveal event. 😂
Nvidia Pascal delta colour compression is at near 75 percent more effective bandwidth. Polaris is at 36, Fiji at 20 and vega is between 36 and 40 percent. Turing is at 90. If Amd can match Pascal DCC the APUs will work.
Pascal was and still is a marvel. That performance at the power usage was almost unthinkable. Navi needs to have had a breakthrough just to catch up to Pascal. It sounds like Navi got close but didn't catch up and 7nm has pushed it over Pascal and moving slightly towards Turing.
Vega ROPS has L2 cache linkage with Vega DCC which are improvements over Tonga IGP on A12.
Is there any side effects from those heavy DCC?
Like some weird thingy on CAD software? Etc?
My brother is working on a construction and civil service company. According to him. Previous Radeon product kinda didnt go so well on CAD software.
The problem is that GCN is a jack of all trades master of none. Pascal/maxwell was a specialist.
This is why when it came to mining and data the geforce cards are so far behind with the equivalent AMD offering. This is why Nvidia started adding tenosr cores and RT to add to their compute. While I assume Navi is gonna do the opposite. Shed all the vega compute stuff and focus only on gaming. Navi might be the Maxwell. power efficiency and high performance. Arcturus might be the Pascal but not saying in perf but in the impact it had in the gpu landscape.
@@Thesinistereyes1
Vega 64 has GP104 level rasterization. Any TFLOPS argument doesn't include ROPS read/write factors.
GTX 1080 Ti has 88 ROPS and six rasterization units.
Vega 56 at 1710 Mhz with 12.2 TFLOPS can beat Strix Vega 64 at 1590Mhz with 13.02 TFLOPS i.e. Vega 56 at 1710 Mhz has faster rasterization power.
Just subscribed on your last video. Very pleased with this followup. Thank you very much for clearly presenting important (and interesting) information.
Well, you really stirred things up this time Jim. Good job !
The "too good to be true" is coming from Intel Shills I guarantee. There is this thing about when people buy something, they want their investment to mean something. That x3850 at 16 core 5.1ghz at $500, is a 100% buy for me. I'll buy 2 at that price, maybe more. I do have 4 computers in my office I can upgrade. AMD if you are reading, stick with your plan and blow Intel out of the water, make them feel the pain of being stagnant. If that x3850 goes to $700 and the whole stack increases. I might buy one and wait for ryzen 4000 and buy used x3850's to upgrade the rest of my machines.
Well, if AMD ever want to catch up to Intel in gaming performance, the leaks need to be true, I don't see why there was so much doubt, it's the logical move from AMD.
Wait these Ryzen leaks are controled by AMD PR?
TDP is Thermal design power TERMAL its suposed to be related to coolers
Why wole media read is as power draw?
Why they think clock= higher watage?
Power draw depend on 2 factors - cpu usage and Voltagte, same clocks, higher voltage = higher draw power.
3.2GHz 1.4V = higher draw power than 4GHz 1.1V Why tech median dont know basics?
BINGO!
One of the few channels where I have press the bell icon... This deserves much more subscribers
I remember paying €500.- for the high-end graphics cards... I remember paying €280.- for the 3770K CPU. This is why I bought my Ryzen 7 1700X. I wanted a new CPU, but Intel could only offer me like, +/- 20%-30% extra performance at €380.- for the 7700K at the time (Inflation has been low in the euro zone if people were wondering :P). Sure Ryzen was slower in games, but at least it gave me double the core count at that price point, and its IPC is still a lot higher than Ivybridge (or haswell) . If people think the price points of these leaks are ridiculous, than maybe they forgot what prices were like in a time where competition was still a thing -_- We HAVE seen AMD do the same thing, in keeping prices high, just undercutting Intel, and lowering prices only when Intel responded with 6 cores, and lower prices. Ofcourse they did! And I can't blame them. The question is now: Will AMD do the same thing now (offer more cores at the same price point) while they have their own product line out this time. I sincerely hope they do, because if they want to grow their market share, and be a true competitor to Intel.. they will have to.
True journalist here, not bending his opinion for views and jumping on a "bandwagon", but instead actually putting the effort in to analyse and interpret. Great work scottish man!
Just the same thought, when the company gets wind and sees the masses feel it's too good to be true, they'll jack up the prices to fulfill that thought. Marketing at it's best. I've been on a few product review sessions and they always ask at the end or near the end, so how much do you think this product should cost. Once they get an idea of what the avg high price people will pay for they'll adjust to it.
So you people out there saying, it's too good to be true, keep it to yourself till it's out. We don't care if you feel the need to say, "see I told you so, I was right.". TIA.
It does seem far-fetched to be honest, coming from an average consumer point of view, given the track records of CPU makers and the general mindshare but everyone in their right minds would love it if it turns out the Ryzen 2 is actually that good. It wouldn't be the first time AMD has better tech than Intel.
Ninoslav Stankovic because used to intels dirty tactics.
I’m less sceptical for one reason. It will be the first time I can recall that AMD has beaten Intel in a performance race on new tech. They are jumping on the success of threads ripper and can use this to start regaining some market share.
A shift in market share will be far more valuable to them in the long run then the short term gain of charging like intel.
I’m no fan boy, my current systems all invid and intel. Just want to see some competition. As Intel and team green have been overcharging for to long.
@@ablet85 I have never owned an Intel CPU, not because I'm an AMD fanboy, I just look at it from a price-performance standpoint and what suits my needs. In the long run, I think that consistency is what AMD needs more than pure performance advantage because mindshare is a huge thing in this market. Being faster or on par for a smaller price for a short period of time isn't going to cut it, just look at the time Radeon GPU's were right there with GTX or even better, people still bought Nvidia more.
ryzen 2(000) is zen+ tho, i think you are referring to ryzen 3
@@alrecks619 Yes, Zen 2 in fact not Ryzen 2. Zen 2 being Ryzen 3000 series, right? :)
Pricing has to be incredible to get consumers to switch to AMD from Intel and Nvidia. Both of these companies have tried to crush AMD; sometime illegally. This is AMD's chance to take the lead in desktop and laptop cpus\gpus, while gaining data center market share with lower power consumption with fewer sockets. AMD is financially in a position to put the screws to both, unlike last time. Intel fan boys will have a very hard time justifying their purchasing decisions if AMD chooses to be very aggressive with pricing. I hope they do. The things Intel did to AMD in the early years are about to be answered for.
P.S. I think people forget about the incredible yields AMD will be getting on the 7nm process\strategy, making all of this possible.
Being a user of Intel and nVidia, I'm actually freakin happy to see AMD kicking ass. In the past, I used to have a Sapphire 6000 series with an Intel Dual Core. Since I wasn't well informed in the CPU/GPU branding, I ended up with an i5-4670 and a GTX 1060. Seeing how AMD is getting stronger with better pricing, I know whose side to go when I'll upgrade.
3700 X at 5Ghz = the new AMD gaming CPU :)
Jogeir Hvide
If it does not have latency issues... 2 chiplets for two RAM channels...
@@Austin1990 The latency issues are barely an actual issue with Zen+, so even if Zen 2 still has the same latency issues, which is unlikely due to the improvements in infinity fabric, the +15% IPC and +25% clock speed will absolutely slaughter anything Intel has to offer.
Game Spirit
But, Zen 2 will be more like Threadripper 2000. Doesn’t the 2950X still have latency issues when compared to the Ryzen 7 2700X?
Yes but with the improved IF and the node shrink I think they'll still be better than 2700X' latencys
Gaming... And running some VMs in the background. My dream PC!!
New thought, why would the I/O die cost that much extra to ship? The epyc ones need to shipped anyway, so just send the quarter sized Ryzen I/O dies along with epyc. The extra shipping cost for this should be fairly minimal I imagine.
BEEN WAITING FOR YOUR RESPONSE SO LONG JIM (sorry I am just so happy you uploaded ❤❤❤)
As far as I know the packaging was already done elsewere, in the old back end, testing and packaging that AMD spun off three years ago, and given that a trip from NY to China ain't that different than a trip fron NY to China + a trip from Taiyuan to China the logistic cost would be negligible.
I actually think that doing so makes a lot of sense, given that due to the last amendament to the GloFo/AMD supply contract they get tose 14nm iodies vasically for free.
They get to keep the production cost on TSMC down while keeping GloFo product lines alive, and on top of that they have a finger in both pies (meaning that they can, for the next node, make a choice between the two, risklessly).
Merry Christmas JIM
Same bud!
Everyone is still thinking based on their experience of Intel over the last 10 years where every year we got a small clockspeed increase and that was it. I suspect your prices are a bit off (they'll be higher at least from top 8C/16T up) but I think these CPU specs are totally possible.
I saw those articles and I was waiting for this video. Good to know you had a well composed response, just as I expected.
Can't wait to see the prices increased and everyone flood you with comments saying that you were wrong. All while AMD laughs on the way to the bank, as they were just literally told by their customers that they should give them less for their money.
There's only one thing that was conclusively wrong with the leaks: The TBA part. Specs, pricing and specifics about the desktop product stack were not announced at CES... and I wasn't expecting such. All I was really expecting was "proof of life", information on the existence and development of desktop Ryzen parts. The announcement of Ryzen 3000 series mobile chips was... interesting...
Too good to be true? nah it's exactly what I expect. nvidia and intel prices are the ones out of line so much so I personally as a consumer refuse to pay those ludicrous prices. To me the leaked specs and prices are normal for what is competition and progress, just like it always was in the past. Stagnation and monopoly is not what I base my exceptions on.
My guess is these articles just looked at the graph you put together showing the CPU's instead of actually watching the video and listening to what was said.
AMD just showed the Ryzen 3 at CES 2019 with a separate I/O.
What do you think now?
I love the logic and analysis you use to answer the "too good to be true" media articles. Some journalist have described AMD CEO, Lisa Su, as being "more bullish than ever", in regards to Epyc/Rome having twice the core counts. Why is it so hard to believe that AMD can do the same for consumer desktop CPUs?
I'll resist the urge to harass Tim from Techspot/Hardware Unboxed when these products are launched. Although I'll be waiting to see what some of these critics will have to say once these products are out. Keep up the top notch content Jim :)
The guy Tim from hardware unboxed is a kid with what appears to be no knowledge of history when there are many instances of companies pricing goods 50% less than their competition, with many people listing instances in the comments of wait for it..... AMD doing that in the past.... And the condescending attitude was completely uncalled for and immature. I wouldn't want him to run any company i had invested in that is for sure, half the stuff he said didn't make any sense and was short term thinking rather than long term strategy which is what AMD needs. The memes will flow if this leak proves to be close to the mark.
I don't get how stupid someone can be and be in a position like that. I look at that and the second I see it I am like are you stupid, A GPU is not only the GPU core, there is the VRAM, VRM, PSB etc etc etc on a lowend card like that the actual GPU proper is less an a majority of the cost.
On an APU wouldn't the motherboard take over all of that though?
@@valgarlienheart Yes I was talking about the author Jim was talking about. So I am saying that the author Jim was talking about was being incredibly stupid, and you can hear it in his voice at one point where he gets to that bit and he is almost like, "Oh my fucking god how stupid are you."
@@valgarlienheart Honestly you could tell he wasn't thinking or is stupid from the start as he says that it's 50% of the power so you could only increase the core count by 50%... Like that is some grade 1 stupidity. As 50% of the power consumption is half, so that means you could have double the cores for the same power, or 50% more cores and a more mild clockrate increase.
I think it would be more accurate to say 1800x to 2700x was a 34% reduction in price (0.66 * 499), which is 34%? I don't think this changes your point, it is indeed a huge price slash, but 499 at 66% off would be like 170.
Yep was about to comment this myself. The point stand at the 34% reduction showing AMD isn't afraid to slash prices though this is a huge slash again.
Great content. Only 2 videos in and decided to sub. Keep up the good work :-D
Absolutely spot on about people buying on the basis of being able to afford something, I was looking at building a system with a 2600 but now due to the ryzen leak I'm thinking of waiting and buying the new 3600 and not the 3300 even though it's also a 6/12 part like the 2600
Shoutout to @techyescity who quoted you
That dude is so weird. He did some workout video that was creepy and I had to bail on his channel.
He's an Australian icon mate - just because he's big in Japan doesn't mean anything - we're all trying to live our life
@@ADR69 I like his channel ADR. Although I respect your opinion and understand where you are coming from, I find a lot of his videos pretty informative and enjoy his focus of budget systems using older hardware.
I think he disagreed with Jim on some of the specifics but did mentioned him and that is good for Adored TV, who deserve 20x the subs on his very informative and interesting channel.
@@ADR69 haha you got creeped out by a tech tuber promoting health in the gamer/tech community? How come?
@@JacksonianT if you've seen the video and aren't creeped out I don't know what to tell you. Best of luck
So basically, this was a purposeful leak to see if AMD could up-sell/raise prices even more on next gen Ryzen. With that context in mind, it all actually makes perfect sense. Those prices are probably some what low profit margins and wanted to see if they could squeeze us because of how Intel has been treating the consumer market. Not gonna be surprised if the Ryzen 9 3850x is $600.
Hey Jim, is there any chance you will open a alternate financial support account like SubscribeStar? I had to cancel my Patreon account because of their increasingly unethical business practices. I (and probably several others) would really like to continue supporting your work monthly without using Patreon. Cheers!
Linus tech will have their support platform up soon, floatplane maybe that would be an option
I just love seeing idiots doubt such an increase in cores and clocks just out based on the fact that it hasn't been done before. No one thought we would get Ryzen at all but yet here we are.
There is a big difference between being a Pessimist and an Optimist. Agreeing with such large improvements isn't either its rather that you are a realist if u believe such a large improvement could happen. Thats because as a realist u look at the meat of the topic at hand rather then the skin which is what both Opti and Pessi do. I'm glad Adored looked at the actual improvements that jumping to 7nm will bring and then elaborated on it show how it connects to the improvements we are are getting shown. If u do this the improvements really don't seem that out of the ordinary.
Again no one believes something so out of the ordinary, especially not when they are stuck using present components. We'll just have to wait and see if that many cores can reach such clocks. I can easily see the core increases with 7nm. My only worry is the clocks at those core counts, as in the past with each major architecture shrink the core to clock ratio has moved a pathetic amount. Forcing high core count chips to yes increase clocks a little compared to previous models but by todays standards said increase is nothing.
That is my real worry even when looking at the meat of what the 7nm shrink can do. I would be incredibly happy to be proven wrong. Come on AMD knock Intel down another 10 pegs we need REAL competition again. Your so close, lets see u follow through on it this time...
They all forget that AMD is in a market where they can win. Intel is having 10nm trouble, cpu shortage, lost of market share and more. If AMD can take more of the market share, AMD will have more money to discount their products to whatever price they want because now they can kill the competition. They are trying to change the mind of a consumer. Let's say a consumer wants to buy a cpu. He has to choose if it's Intel or AMD. He will look at the pricing and the majority of people will prefer price/performance in which AMD is the sure winner. I mean a 6 core for $150 and Intel i5 8400 is way above $200. If they can change this kind of mind set they will win. But it is also noted that if they win they might turn into a monopoly and the status quo will change again.
I love your videos bro. Please don't stop for anything or anyone ❤️
Spoken like a boss ;-) Merry Xmas Jim.
he is a boss! :)
Skepticism ruined our chance of getting marvelous chips at marvelous prices.
Well, 250 vs 500 has happened before and also, it's because that 500 dollar card wastes tons of Die space on Ray-tracing bullshit and the performance is the same as the 500 dollar card two years ago...
AMD have proved they can compete with nvidea at the high range with vega64(after they fixed there drivers), price to performance they could not though but that was because of hbm2, now imagine that AMD making new gfx cards with the 7nm process and instead of hbm using gddr which is much cheaper, putting it that way it doesnt sound ludicrous that amd can make a rtx 2080 competitor at a reasonable price especially when you consider the 2080 is just a slightly better gtx 1080 ti, now do you think that after 2 years AMD is not going to be able to create a card that can rival or slighty supercede the gtx 1080 ti in performance after a significant die shrink, considering this new gen of nvidea cards are gimped and way over priced, i think they're handing AMD a comeback, like intel has.
@@frizzlybear1 yip, amd must jump on this opportunity.
@@scarletspidernz and its not like AMD doesn't have Ray Tracing Tech. Just google Radion Rays.
@The Reaper95 dude, I said 1080 TI, TI not the 1080 regular.
@The Reaper95 read his comment again bro, he clearly says "1080 ti"
What if they did something like a 3700X Black Edition (3750X?) at 5.1GHZ, I would still be all over that at $400
Hey AdoredTV, You mentioned that AMD's 14nm node wasn't a True 14nm node like Intel's. I'd be interested to hear about that in a video sometime.
none of them are true 14nm nodes, but intel's is closer to 14nm when you calculate the package size from the transistor count.
basically intel's 14nm is is a bit closer to 16nm, and TSMC/glofo/samsung were closer to 18-20
still doesn't tell the whole story of silicon quality though
for example:
there were certain models iphones that were virtually identical, except for their CPUs, 1 being 14nm samsung, the other being 16nm TSMC,
the 16nm tsmc clocked higher and was more power efficient (no surprise why nvidia stuck so long to 16nm TSMC)
with the clock speeds intel chips are getting, there is little doubt on silicon quality on their 14nm++(+) process, it's good,
intel has the better chip, they're just more expensive to make,
and AMD pulled intel into a core count war they can't keep up with using monolithic cpu design, the chance on defects just gets too big at some point.
the bigger the core count, the more AMD wins right now,
and they kind of slowly seem to get their way in polishing intel's clear single threading advantages into irrelevant territories.
Also why AMD's "12nm" dies are exactly the same size as their 14nm ones.
@@blondbassist hmm no clue, i haven't really looked into ryzen gen2 that much really, when i saw the specs i wasn't too impressed, but it seemed to make huge gains in games thanks to the latency reworks, so i guess that's where most of the gains come from.
wouldn't surprise me if it's just a 14nm+ so to say (one that wasn't 14 to begin with, yeah, i know, i didn't come up with this bullshit).
what i do know, is that many of the small processes are already too small for the litho machines, so they have to do 2 passes of a bigger process, with the 2nd being offset by half the unit size so they kind of intertwine, which comes with a whole set of its own complications concerning precision.
i mean, if it had the precision, it could've done it in 1 pass, so there's always going to be an additional margin of error there.
AMD don't have a 14nm node - AMD use Global foundries 14nm node which they licenced from Samsung. It's a 20nm node with FinFets. TSMC's 7nm isn't actually the size it claims either
@@blondbassist GloFo "12nm" is the same as GloFo "14nm" but with some optimisations so that the process allows for higher clock speeds while being decently more efficient at the old clock speeds.
They changed the design of the fins and the design of the pFET cavity to reduce leakage and transistor resistance.
fuse.wikichip.org/news/1497/vlsi-2018-globalfoundries-12nm-leading-performance-12lp/
Really appreciate how you took the articles apart and addressed all the individual parts. When I read the Techspot article I was hoping you would do exactly that. Thanks for another great video!
The only people complaining are the ones who feel left out of the leaks, and don't have intellectual capital to understand the objective analysis. The same people who would watch call 'Phantom of the Opera' a flop, because it never came on IMAX.
Its still too expensive for me.
Please make it cheaper. XD
Get a job. AMD has always given more performance per dollar than Intel even when they held the absolute performance lead. The fundamental goal of a business is to generate revenue. If you're expecting AMD to stay in debt and go into bankruptcy so that morr cheap lazy people can buy their products, I have no words.
AMD be like: "Too late! 😂💲📈"
ctsd623 playing a bit of devils advocate: I mean if you live in a shithole country where food is cheap but everything else costs 10x the amount, it's understandable that one would be reluctant to spend a months worth of income on a cpu instead of food.
Zen 2 athalon baby!
@@godiamcrazydude They aren't playing devil's advocate, they're just an elitist brought out of the woodwork because they failed to catch the actual meaning of the OP's comment (specifically the XD).