As a consumer who appreciates the art in tarot, I think having something on the box deck saying AI generated or AG artist generated or AIM (ai manipulated) is the honest thing to do. Let the consumer decide if they want AI in the deck, keep them informed. Personally, I want decks with no AI used. It’s like AI in books. If ChatGPT wrote the story and you changed some of the names, adjectives and sentences, is that truly an authors’ work? In my opinion, no. It’s AI written work with editor modifications. I don’t want to buy that book.
I agree! I want to be informed so that I can make up my mind. I think it’s becoming more and more the rule, about disclosing the involvement of AI in the creation of a product. It certainly gives the power of choice back to the collectors!
Firstly, I really like the Artist Decoded deck. It gives me Somnia meet Klimt vibes. The guidebook is also awesome. But, I've said it once and I'll say it again...if the use of AI is properly put somewhere on the deck or books then they aren't hiding anything. I take aim at people just taking famous paintings and putting them on tarot cards. There's no real work and they're essentially just stealing someone's art and making a profit. And I'm not talking about artist specific decks. I'm talking about the mixed, curated art decks.
Same goes for collage decks - photos and art somebody else created is cut up and reassembled. Is that art? If it touches my heart and stirrs my mind I say Yes!
When it comes to kickstarter they have to disclose any amount of AI being used now, so I will be interested to see if they means there’s going to be less or more AI generated decks!
Completely agree! I didn’t want to be lied to about the use of AI even if it’s minimal. It doesn’t mean that I won’t buy the deck, but at least I will know!
I have a lot of thoughts about this. First, your ethical question - actually, if you use the AI by Adobe, it was trained entirely on stock images that they own. I'm sure their concern was more legal than ethical, but no artist's works were used without permission. I think that will be the wave of the future - as various AI systems are created by big corporations with big pockets, they don't need to scrape the web for free images. That being said, to me the real ethical issue is whether thoughtless commercial AI is going to put artists out of work, and I'm pretty sure the answer is yes. However, that doesn't make me against AI on principle; I just think it means that we need to look into the how and why AI is being used. Now as to whether it's art and we can feel the "soul" of the creator...well, do we have to? I don't really feel the soul of the creator in the pips of a Marseille deck, but sometimes I like that level of objectivity. Sometimes I like a really abstract deck like the Orbifold, which is basically just a system of colored spheres. To me, it's more important that a deck contains magic than art, and some AI decks are very magical. For example, the Tarot of the Everlasting Day by Marcus Katz and Tali Goodwin, who have spent most of their lives studying the history and practice of esoteric tarot. Or one of the earliest AI decks (maybe the first), the Alvdansen, where the creators were doing rituals to invoke Swedish elf-spirits into the AI to communicate with them as the deck was being made. I do want to support these creators, and these decks are wonderful. On the other hand, there are way too many decks being created by people who know nothing about tarot or publishers who want to make some easy money. Like everything you buy, you need to ask yourself if that's where you want your money to go. Finally, as to the issue of whether the AI could write a tarot guidebook, well, AIs great at producing vague and sweeping summaries in a very literate style. They aren't good at all (read incapable) of producing anything with depth, originality or insight. In short, AI can churn out little white books that are the equal of any out there, but never a great guidebook. If you're asking "Could this be AI?" - at your level of experience, if there's anything new that you've learned from the book, anything that seems unique and not the same old thing you've read in a dozen other guidebooks - in other words, if it's actually good, it won't be AI.
@Shimere277 thank you for clarifying the Adobe software, I was trained in graphic design with the old copy & paste, PC's were just starting to come into the profession. I never really paid attention to the art stocks catalogues to compare to today's AI creation. So that was a nice light bulb moment 🌞
I wasn’t aware that Adobe AI uses only their stock images, thank you for mentioning that! I think this is probably how the future will look like. It’s certainly better to stay! And I agree that ultimately the choice is ours whether we want an AI deck in our collection or not!
Thanks for the thoughtful discussion. I am conflicted regarding AI technology. Up until now there has only been one deck, the Haptic Tarot, that appealed to me. Due to my conflicted feelings I didn't back it. I now regret that decision.
I went back and forth about the Haptic Tarot as well! And I didn’t back it either. And I’m probably regretting that too 🤣 I’m sure it’ll become available again sooner or later. But it’s great that at least we’re informed about the creative process and we can make decisions for ourselves!
IMHO as an artist - all art is a process, the investment of the creator in said process equals art - so if it’s quick and thoughtless, it shows - the tools used are irrelevant really, they always change. It’s the investment of skill, time, talent and to be conscious of theft vs collage, borrowing ideas, repurposing etc. There is no avoiding AI but in every area of life it comes down to how the tool is used, the degree to which one invests oneself, in time and process.
I completely agree! Sloppy work is sloppy work even when it’s done with the latest technology! On the other hand there are AI generated decks that really require a lot of work by the creator!
Hi Silvia. IMO, "Is AI real art?" is kinda the same question we asked when photography came along ~ arguments on both sides. Everything evolves, including art, so ~ I think it's for each individual to decide, same as whether they consider photography to be "real" art. I'm less concerned how an image is produced, than whether or not I like it. It still takes skill to manipulate the medium used. But. Everyone will answer the question according to their definition of art and their own values.
Absolutely! I like to think that I’m still open minded enough to hear everyone’s opinions and then formulate one myself. I feel that I don’t know enough about art to be able to judge the execution but I know what I like. If and when AI will replace writers then I’ll definitely be more vocal 😉 I agree with the necessity of disclosing the use of AI though, for as little or as much as it was used. We need to be free to decide for ourselves!
The thing with photography is a person is holding the camera, selects what they decide to capture and usually that's man made or nature of some sort. Ai for me is typing a couple of words in a program and having ai do all of the work. There's just something missing and I dont think ai belongs in certain situations. Tarot and divination are so profound and impactful, full of so much emotion and to me it's almost a bit disrespectful to use AI as divination decks. Also, the fact that etsy is now overrun with ai decks with baffling price tags is really disheartening. Generating multiple decks a month and charging ridiculously expensive prices is not right. Just my two cents lol 🙂
No I dont think ai has a place anywhere near tarot and divination as a whole. There is something missing and it's a big something in fact. Seeing etsy flooded with astronomically expensive ai decks is really disheartening to me as I cant help but feel it's almost cheapening, watering down and disrespecting the entire premise of these very profound tools we read and work with. Ai feels stagnant, surface level, lacking depth, impersonal and robotic. However, these are just my opinions and I absolutely do not stick my nose up to anyone who does connect with ai decks, work with them and enjoy them. They're just not for me and therefore I dont have to purchase them. There's a place for ai i just dont think it should be in tarot.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts 🙏🥰 I like to be able to understand something as much as I can before deciding if I want it or not and they goes for tarot decks as well. Certainly the fact that I don’t completely understand AI (at least not yet) stops me from fully enjoying the experience of using a deck. How much of that is due to my lack of knowledge or to the fact that it’s a machine-generated product…. I unfortunately have no idea 😉 I’m very grateful though, for the opportunity of discussing this in a safe space such as this one 🥰
I like both of the Stage 3 AI decks and maybe they should be described as AI assisted since the artist reworked the images significantly. I will not support Stage 1 editions for the reasons you give. When AI assists the process then it is a tool. I have not studied the history of art so I’m assuming that graphic design once did not use computers so when computer designed graphic art became a ‘thing’ then it could have been rejected as ‘non-art’. I have been quick to call AI art ‘non-art’ but I’m prepared to accept it as a design tool alongside others that presently exist. I just don’t want to cut the artist out of the design process and make them redundant. We will always need artists to create art whether they use AI to assist them or not. It just needs to be declared so I can make an informed decision to support it or not. I hope that AI will never grow to replace the artist. I share that worry with a lot of people.
I’m worried about that too unfortunately! Someone in my family works in IT and his job is practically on the way of extinction. Many other jobs are on the line. On the other hand there are many new jobs that are created thanks to automation. I just don’t know if what we’re seeing is a reprogramming or a replacement. When it comes to Art there has to be the human touch, for sure!
Hi Silvia, I was hoping you might be able to help me. I live in Australia also. I am a Tarot and Oracle collector and Tarot reader for your 30 years. I was wondering if you would be able to suggest a few Trade and Swap groups that you may have come across in Australia that you trust. I only have Original Deck: mass market, indies and kickstarter. Of course I also have Oop decks as well in all 3 categories. I have used market place, but would love to trade or swap decks with others who treasure there decks like I do. I keep my decks in perfect condition. Hope you can guide me. As for all the AI talk....Just buy decks you love. You do you always and make choices your happy with. Take Care Terri From Australia 🙌 🦘 🇦🇺 💜
Hi Terri! There are a few “buy, sell, trade” facebook groups for Australia and New Zealand. I’m part of 2 groups, one is called “Rare, OOP and Indie Tarot Talk, Promotions & Sales” and one is “Tarot and Oracle Buy Swap Sell Australia NZ”. I’ve been in those groups for a few years and I can recommend them. In my experience they’re all private groups and you need to apply in order to be accepted but if you have a facebook account older than 12 months I think the approval is pretty much guaranteed.
Thank you for delving into this subject. Now I'm wondering if I have any AI generated decks! And I am so glad that I own a number of decks that were hand drawn and or painted. Artists need to continue to be valued for their genuine insight and skill. You highlighted the "soul" of the artist communicating to you through the artwork in the deck, and I think that is everything. 💜
I agree! I need to be able to be in touch with the soul of the creator through their work. It doesn’t mean that I will always buy their decks but I’ll be able to understand why they do what they do 🥰
I don't have problem with so-called AI. But I don't understand why the deck is called The Artist Decoded Tarot. Shouldn't it be called The AI decoded tarot? 😂
![ทุกครั้งที่หลับตา (Lucid Dream) - AYLA's [ Official MV ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/4i1OBAQyv58/mqdefault.jpg)
As a consumer who appreciates the art in tarot, I think having something on the box deck saying AI generated or AG artist generated or AIM (ai manipulated) is the honest thing to do. Let the consumer decide if they want AI in the deck, keep them informed. Personally, I want decks with no AI used. It’s like AI in books. If ChatGPT wrote the story and you changed some of the names, adjectives and sentences, is that truly an authors’ work? In my opinion, no. It’s AI written work with editor modifications. I don’t want to buy that book.
I agree! I want to be informed so that I can make up my mind. I think it’s becoming more and more the rule, about disclosing the involvement of AI in the creation of a product. It certainly gives the power of choice back to the collectors!
Firstly, I really like the Artist Decoded deck. It gives me Somnia meet Klimt vibes. The guidebook is also awesome. But, I've said it once and I'll say it again...if the use of AI is properly put somewhere on the deck or books then they aren't hiding anything. I take aim at people just taking famous paintings and putting them on tarot cards. There's no real work and they're essentially just stealing someone's art and making a profit. And I'm not talking about artist specific decks. I'm talking about the mixed, curated art decks.
Same goes for collage decks - photos and art somebody else created is cut up and reassembled. Is that art? If it touches my heart and stirrs my mind I say Yes!
If the art is in public domain they are not stealing it.
When it comes to kickstarter they have to disclose any amount of AI being used now, so I will be interested to see if they means there’s going to be less or more AI generated decks!
I agree! It needs to touch my heart for me to be considered artistic!
True. And I think collage decks have proven the point a hundred times over since there’s so many of them around. I actually quite like some of them!
As soon as I saw this deck, I had to have it. I think it's beautiful 😍
It’s got really powerful vibes 🥰
Perhaps AI assisted deck. I’d love to know if AI was used and then I can make my own choice.
Completely agree! I didn’t want to be lied to about the use of AI even if it’s minimal. It doesn’t mean that I won’t buy the deck, but at least I will know!
I have a lot of thoughts about this. First, your ethical question - actually, if you use the AI by Adobe, it was trained entirely on stock images that they own. I'm sure their concern was more legal than ethical, but no artist's works were used without permission. I think that will be the wave of the future - as various AI systems are created by big corporations with big pockets, they don't need to scrape the web for free images. That being said, to me the real ethical issue is whether thoughtless commercial AI is going to put artists out of work, and I'm pretty sure the answer is yes. However, that doesn't make me against AI on principle; I just think it means that we need to look into the how and why AI is being used. Now as to whether it's art and we can feel the "soul" of the creator...well, do we have to? I don't really feel the soul of the creator in the pips of a Marseille deck, but sometimes I like that level of objectivity. Sometimes I like a really abstract deck like the Orbifold, which is basically just a system of colored spheres. To me, it's more important that a deck contains magic than art, and some AI decks are very magical. For example, the Tarot of the Everlasting Day by Marcus Katz and Tali Goodwin, who have spent most of their lives studying the history and practice of esoteric tarot. Or one of the earliest AI decks (maybe the first), the Alvdansen, where the creators were doing rituals to invoke Swedish elf-spirits into the AI to communicate with them as the deck was being made. I do want to support these creators, and these decks are wonderful. On the other hand, there are way too many decks being created by people who know nothing about tarot or publishers who want to make some easy money. Like everything you buy, you need to ask yourself if that's where you want your money to go. Finally, as to the issue of whether the AI could write a tarot guidebook, well, AIs great at producing vague and sweeping summaries in a very literate style. They aren't good at all (read incapable) of producing anything with depth, originality or insight. In short, AI can churn out little white books that are the equal of any out there, but never a great guidebook. If you're asking "Could this be AI?" - at your level of experience, if there's anything new that you've learned from the book, anything that seems unique and not the same old thing you've read in a dozen other guidebooks - in other words, if it's actually good, it won't be AI.
@Shimere277 thank you for clarifying the Adobe software, I was trained in graphic design with the old copy & paste, PC's were just starting to come into the profession. I never really paid attention to the art stocks catalogues to compare to today's AI creation. So that was a nice light bulb moment 🌞
I wasn’t aware that Adobe AI uses only their stock images, thank you for mentioning that! I think this is probably how the future will look like. It’s certainly better to stay! And I agree that ultimately the choice is ours whether we want an AI deck in our collection or not!
❤❤❤
🙏🥰
Thanks for the thoughtful discussion. I am conflicted regarding AI technology. Up until now there has only been one deck, the Haptic Tarot, that appealed to me. Due to my conflicted feelings I didn't back it. I now regret that decision.
I went back and forth about the Haptic Tarot as well! And I didn’t back it either. And I’m probably regretting that too 🤣 I’m sure it’ll become available again sooner or later. But it’s great that at least we’re informed about the creative process and we can make decisions for ourselves!
IMHO as an artist - all art is a process, the investment of the creator in said process equals art - so if it’s quick and thoughtless, it shows - the tools used are irrelevant really, they always change. It’s the investment of skill, time, talent and to be conscious of theft vs collage, borrowing ideas, repurposing etc. There is no avoiding AI but in every area of life it comes down to how the tool is used, the degree to which one invests oneself, in time and process.
I completely agree! Sloppy work is sloppy work even when it’s done with the latest technology! On the other hand there are AI generated decks that really require a lot of work by the creator!
Hi Silvia. IMO, "Is AI real art?" is kinda the same question we asked when photography came along ~ arguments on both sides. Everything evolves, including art, so ~ I think it's for each individual to decide, same as whether they consider photography to be "real" art. I'm less concerned how an image is produced, than whether or not I like it. It still takes skill to manipulate the medium used. But. Everyone will answer the question according to their definition of art and their own values.
Absolutely! I like to think that I’m still open minded enough to hear everyone’s opinions and then formulate one myself. I feel that I don’t know enough about art to be able to judge the execution but I know what I like. If and when AI will replace writers then I’ll definitely be more vocal 😉 I agree with the necessity of disclosing the use of AI though, for as little or as much as it was used. We need to be free to decide for ourselves!
The thing with photography is a person is holding the camera, selects what they decide to capture and usually that's man made or nature of some sort. Ai for me is typing a couple of words in a program and having ai do all of the work. There's just something missing and I dont think ai belongs in certain situations. Tarot and divination are so profound and impactful, full of so much emotion and to me it's almost a bit disrespectful to use AI as divination decks. Also, the fact that etsy is now overrun with ai decks with baffling price tags is really disheartening. Generating multiple decks a month and charging ridiculously expensive prices is not right. Just my two cents lol 🙂
No I dont think ai has a place anywhere near tarot and divination as a whole. There is something missing and it's a big something in fact. Seeing etsy flooded with astronomically expensive ai decks is really disheartening to me as I cant help but feel it's almost cheapening, watering down and disrespecting the entire premise of these very profound tools we read and work with. Ai feels stagnant, surface level, lacking depth, impersonal and robotic. However, these are just my opinions and I absolutely do not stick my nose up to anyone who does connect with ai decks, work with them and enjoy them. They're just not for me and therefore I dont have to purchase them. There's a place for ai i just dont think it should be in tarot.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts 🙏🥰 I like to be able to understand something as much as I can before deciding if I want it or not and they goes for tarot decks as well. Certainly the fact that I don’t completely understand AI (at least not yet) stops me from fully enjoying the experience of using a deck. How much of that is due to my lack of knowledge or to the fact that it’s a machine-generated product…. I unfortunately have no idea 😉 I’m very grateful though, for the opportunity of discussing this in a safe space such as this one 🥰
I like both of the Stage 3 AI decks and maybe they should be described as AI assisted since the artist reworked the images significantly. I will not support Stage 1 editions for the reasons you give. When AI assists the process then it is a tool. I have not studied the history of art so I’m assuming that graphic design once did not use computers so when computer designed graphic art became a ‘thing’ then it could have been rejected as ‘non-art’. I have been quick to call AI art ‘non-art’ but I’m prepared to accept it as a design tool alongside others that presently exist. I just don’t want to cut the artist out of the design process and make them redundant. We will always need artists to create art whether they use AI to assist them or not. It just needs to be declared so I can make an informed decision to support it or not. I hope that AI will never grow to replace the artist. I share that worry with a lot of people.
I’m worried about that too unfortunately! Someone in my family works in IT and his job is practically on the way of extinction. Many other jobs are on the line. On the other hand there are many new jobs that are created thanks to automation. I just don’t know if what we’re seeing is a reprogramming or a replacement. When it comes to Art there has to be the human touch, for sure!
Hi Silvia, I was hoping you might be able to help me. I live in Australia also. I am a Tarot and Oracle collector and Tarot reader for your 30 years. I was wondering if you would be able to suggest a few Trade and Swap groups that you may have come across in Australia that you trust. I only have Original Deck: mass market, indies and kickstarter. Of course I also have Oop decks as well in all 3 categories. I have used market place, but would love to trade or swap decks with others who treasure there decks like I do. I keep my decks in perfect condition. Hope you can guide me. As for all the AI talk....Just buy decks you love. You do you always and make choices your happy with. Take Care Terri From Australia 🙌 🦘 🇦🇺 💜
I hope Sylvia answers your ? about local swap/trade tarot groups. As I live in NZ I have exactly the same dilemma. Thanks for posting this.🙂
Hi Terri! There are a few “buy, sell, trade” facebook groups for Australia and New Zealand. I’m part of 2 groups, one is called “Rare, OOP and Indie Tarot Talk, Promotions & Sales” and one is “Tarot and Oracle Buy Swap Sell Australia NZ”. I’ve been in those groups for a few years and I can recommend them. In my experience they’re all private groups and you need to apply in order to be accepted but if you have a facebook account older than 12 months I think the approval is pretty much guaranteed.
Hi Anna, the two I’ve mentioned to Terri accept accounts from NZ as well!
@@fairlighttarot Thank You So Much Silvia, I do appreciate your help. You are awesome. Terri from Australia 🙌 🦘 🇦🇺 💜
That’s terrific news. Will chase them up. 🎉❤ Thank you!
Pouch with skull has really nice fabric, but that cheap closing with ribbon and button spoils all the pouch!
I’ve actually chosen the ribbon, I really like it! They can do any type of custom design too!
Thank you for delving into this subject. Now I'm wondering if I have any AI generated decks! And I am so glad that I own a number of decks that were hand drawn and or painted. Artists need to continue to be valued for their genuine insight and skill. You highlighted the "soul" of the artist communicating to you through the artwork in the deck, and I think that is everything. 💜
I agree! I need to be able to be in touch with the soul of the creator through their work. It doesn’t mean that I will always buy their decks but I’ll be able to understand why they do what they do 🥰
I don't have problem with so-called AI. But I don't understand why the deck is called The Artist Decoded Tarot. Shouldn't it be called The AI decoded tarot? 😂
🤣🤣 It’s the name of Yoshino’s podcast, but AI Decoded would’ve been cool 😉