Been hunting in kaimanawas last 18 years and concur with your findings too. Animals numbers just start to bounce back and they 1080 again. its a brutal death too seen many deer dig big pits with their legs as they are lying on their sides slowly dying. In my experience it seems 1080 is affecting hind cycling and birthing rates too. shot some very depressed deer after 1080 drop - and opened them up and I suspect they had partial poisoning. Would love to know your biggest sika stag douglas score you have pulled from kaimanawas (I recognize some of the areas you hunt too). Mine was last year 182DS. great video. thanks for sharing
I won the sika show in 2000 with a 195DS, plus put an arrow into a 208DS, its a long story of a arrow that didn't quite hit were i wanted, Andrew shot it 3.5 months later to win the sika show. That stag is on this video,
Nice video Steve! You raise some great points. There’s no doubt 1080 and IR night vision used in the farm edges are major contributors to the decline of the sika herd! Keep it up Steve!👍👍👍
Thanks for the vid. Good as always and very thought provoking. I believe i shot one of the stags you captured on your game camera at 6:48 minute mark. is there some way you could send me the whole clip of that stag? Cheers
I named him "old Harley handle bars" Best i can do is get it up on you tube, it don't cost any thing & we stuck at home COVID so ill get it up today, maybe you can up load it or the likes, ill leave it up for 2-3 weeks then remove.
Great video Steve. Some of the narrative from various organizations needs to be questioned. Boots on the ground experience counts for alot. Keep the awesome vids coming
Really value this Video. Thank you for taking the time sharing from your wealthy knowledge and experience. One question I have because so many talk about it... Pressure on available feed? In your experience, is the availability of good feed in decline? Cheers
During the 50s 60s 70s sika took the browse line on trees up to 2 & 3 meters & it has stayed that way, Sika get over 95% of there food intake of the ground, constant falling leaves, fallen trees etc, sika will find food where there a pairs to be none, things like crown ferns etc are nibbled but they produce fresh growth ever spring, old growth dies off, deer browse on/off all day. Where i hunt since 1983 the availability of food is the same now as it was then, if any thing more food is available now as 1080 has cut the population right back, some places ive gone to for years is now thick with growth because of the big snow in 2016, it took out massive amounts of the bush canopy allowing light in, you should see the growth there, these areas will be thicker that ever in 5 more years, bush lawyer is also taking over, open dead ground is blamed on deer browse when in many cases its been like that for years, soil to acidic or alkaline wont allow growth, the lack of top soil, no sun light getting in etc
Awesome video, I completely agree with you about 1080 and deer selection. As a ‘younger generation’ hunter, born early 90s, I’m just interested to know your opinion on hunting pressure. Was hunting as popular as it is now, compared to 80s-90s?? I just know Clemets Rd, obviously a popular area to hunt Sika, seems to be very busy. Almost every corner there is a vehicle parked during the peak of the roar. Do you think high numbers of hunters are contributing to deer decline too?? I’m hoping the sika will bounce back as I have plenty of hunting years to be had! Thanks a lot for your videos, best sika content available!
Normal hunting pressure for the most part keeps animal numbers steady, deer are born to replace those that are shot, numbers fluctuate up/down.. The chance of a high population returning like 60s 70s etc is nil, 1080 wont allow it.. Hunting became bigger say 80s on wards, & more so today, just cause you see lots of cars don't mean much, most of our hunts we go home empty, that's why we return, "this time you buggers ill show you" hunting is so enjoyable & rewarding.. until its rains then its crap
I get your points, specific to the area you hunt. I agree with WildNZ comment - the message as I've understood it from such organisations is site specific. E.g. remote areas only accessible by helicopter, not to mention the remote zone where it has been evidently shown animals are in poor condition, barren hinds etc. The effect of 1080 is also so variable depending on the site and conditions at the time of dropping. E.g. both Ahimanawa drops seemed to have had no impact on deer numbers. I certainly don't agree with 1080, just pointing out we should take each site individually. I do feel the stags get a hard time, with electronic callers etc. nowadays it seems the Sika roar is very busy! Just got back from a trip and it just seemed there was such a high number of hinds to stags. Very little roaring, although end of April..? Hope more and more hunters think about the type of stag they are shooting as you point out, cheers
Interesting perspective. Tend to agree. Cam Speedy had started to influence me. But wasn't totally sold on his sales pitch. In Haast waiting for the whitebait. Miss the Kaimanawas
Interesting perspective, I respect your opinion and experience for the area you have hunted and enjoy your videos. I can’t help but feel however that your narrative here is somewhat misleading. You refer to the sika herd as a whole which covers a huge area over multiple ecosystems.What about the areas that are in fact over populated and don’t get 1080? There’s a lot of them. Your patch isn’t the only place sika live and the current narrative from these organisations reflects that they understand each area has different circumstances and different management needs. The most common issue in a lot of areas is that hind numbers need to be reduced. Again, respectfully, I don’t disagree with what you might be seeing in your area, I do think however it is wrong to pitch a counter argument that lacks full disclosure to the wider picture. Like everyone else, I want to see healthy deer, big stags, native bird life and the flora and fauna thriving.
I agree with you guys both. in some areas that are well hunted deer numbers are where they should be, and also some areas not so well hunted deer numbers are too high. what i dont understand is why the organisations promoting hunters to shoot more deer dont specify that. Hunters asking "where to go to shoot a sika" will always get the same answer; clements road, kiko road, when there should be encouragement to hunt areas less frequented with higher deer numbers.
"the current narrative from these organisations reflects that they understand each area has different circumstances and different management needs" . Respectively bullshit, show us proof then of the sf, nzda, gac where they have proved what you have said to be true in what they have said and promoted? They all have said to reduce hinds in general ie everywhere and have not said only in high density or "over populated" areas let alone name where those areas are. We even had a group from the thames valley nzda turn up to our camp down Clements in the roar and say " we hope to nail a few hinds because Speedy says so". I have never shot a skinny "because of over population" deer in that area ever in 18 years. "The current narrative from these organisations" is actually what is misleading. No offence intended and I respect your opinion.
35 years gathering information over a 20km square area on sika deer in the bush is not "a narrative perspective" its a educated hunters perspective, a scientist of deer i guess one could say. I have not based my findings on the river flats of Oamaru Mohaka or Poronui area!! You speak of area's high population with no 1080, are you talking private blocks that hunters have restricted or nil access 90% of the year? then that's why they may have higher numbers than public land, because those blocks are locked up from hunters who keep animal numbers in check. Based on my findings after a 1080 drop culling out hinds is not the best, hinds on "public land" need to be there to breed in hope of countering the devastation of 1080.. The drop this year was put off for 12 months, if its dropped in good weather & the baits lay on the ground for 2 weeks & more, the kill rate on sika deer could be as high as 60%,, a sobering thought for any hunter..
Like I said, I don’t necessarily disagree with what you may have experienced in your area. I respect what you have experienced in that regard. To be fair though like I said, 20km square is a very small percentage of the entire sika range. If the numbers in your area are in fact low and at a sustainable level then yes good, not shooting hinds is the right thing. This doesn’t apply to everywhere though and you have pitched it like it does which is incorrect and misleading, my key point i’m getting at. I do agree, the SF and others could do a better job of relaying the areas that do and don’t need specific targeting of hinds, that piece is lacking. The same thing your pitch is lacking. In those organisations defence, they are under resourced and over criticised, playing a bloody tricky role in a very complicated political environment with many parties to please. I and other hunters have experienced sika outside of your area that are over populated and in poor health, public land and private. I also see this regularly in red deer herds that don’t have 1080, they are at tipping point of doing concerning damage to the bush and the animals are in poor health/condition because we don’t shoot enough and also can’t shoot enough to control them. I have learnt in my time already to take peoples experience with a grain of salt. From your videos and the way you do things, I do see you are an excellent bush sika hunter with a passion for what we do, I admire that and bloody enjoy your stuff. I do hope this can remain constructive and you can see my point as I can see yours. Thanks.
Some very interesting views posted in the comments. I think there could be an element of truth in all the comments, however the one thing that seems to be overlooked is that the aim for using 1080 coupled with shooting breeding hinds is not to control herd numbers, it's to eradicate them (as per your narrative), doc have proved their regard for hunters interests is only a facade. On 1080, interestingly, one area I hunt rains green, (4yrly ?) No possums, no Tomtits, no bush Robbins, bugga all fan tails, no rats, plenty of Tui and Bell birds, the odd More pork. Early this year we saw our 1st possum, and the odd Tom Tit, we just started to think things were coming right (regards bird life) and guess what, Green rain is about to fall again. Frustratingly disappointing!!!!! p s, sorry, this was way to long.
You kill a stag you've removed one deer, kill a hind and you've killed her and every fawn she'll ever produced. Here in Australia hunting is in a bad way with government culling and promotion of hunters killing everything they see. Love your videos and respect for nature, can't wait to get back over to hunt sika again. Incredible deer and a real challenge.
Interesting views. Don't get me wrong I can't stand DOC but when we think of deer herd management overseas, We never shoot spikers ( these can be your future trophies) we shoot cull stags for meat (to get them out of the gene pool) and hinds. Now i have hunted Sika deer for many years in NZ and there is a general lack of numbers for the most part. Perhaps not removing hinds in this sense is logical. that just leaves cull stags. In terms of the bird life in the bush. I too have also noticed a huge decline in bird life since the 90s I used to hunt the Te Iringa area in the days when the hut was still there. I remember seeing Kakas and Pigeons and all sorts. These days the bush is quiet. The question is have the birds been killed off by 1080 or have the been killed off by rats, stoats and weasels? I live in Australia now and my mate that has hunted 30 odd years in NZ recons there are more deer around everywhere in NZ now than there was in the 90s. Is that true or not the case?
Yes we never no what a spiker will grow to, shooting a few hinds as normal hunting keeps numbers going along nicely, but asked to target them along side 1080 in the long term will have a big effect, ive seen it happen. The per posed 1080 drop in good weather next year could take out 40 to 60%, a sobering thought for any hunter..
Perspective is misleading ....and I see Mr.West is at it again #sigh... You forget that in areas these hinds AREN'T BREEDING IN THE FIRST PLACE because of their poor condition and quality of feed
Misleading is ones perspective! hehe see what i did there, im joking as its such a lovely day out side, Now if hinds are not breeding then deer numbers will be on the decline in those areas you speak off? so hinds in those areas are probably more valuable on the hill than in a freezer? Lets face it hinds are like a dairy cow they are having the life sucked out of them 24/7,, feeding young or pregnant its a losing battle for them, they will never be in top condition, have you seen a fat dairy cow? & they get fed the best of the best...
Hi Kylie. Yes I have voiced my disagreement in the blanket narrative that your organisation preaches. It is based on my own and others experience in the areas we hunt over many years and nothing personal towards anyone. What you have said above in your comment , in the areas we hunt is simply not true (actually never has been) and that is a fact regardless of what you are told. All the best in the scrub and have a great week. Just because someone dosnt agree with the narrative does not mean they are wrong.
Big respect to this guy, spoken buy someone with true time on tools.
Been hunting in kaimanawas last 18 years and concur with your findings too. Animals numbers just start to bounce back and they 1080 again. its a brutal death too seen many deer dig big pits with their legs as they are lying on their sides slowly dying. In my experience it seems 1080 is affecting hind cycling and birthing rates too. shot some very depressed deer after 1080 drop - and opened them up and I suspect they had partial poisoning. Would love to know your biggest sika stag douglas score you have pulled from kaimanawas (I recognize some of the areas you hunt too). Mine was last year 182DS. great video. thanks for sharing
I won the sika show in 2000 with a 195DS, plus put an arrow into a 208DS, its a long story of a arrow that didn't quite hit were i wanted, Andrew shot it 3.5 months later to win the sika show. That stag is on this video,
Nice video Steve! You raise some great points. There’s no doubt 1080 and IR night vision used in the farm edges are major contributors to the decline of the sika herd! Keep it up Steve!👍👍👍
Thanks for the vid. Good as always and very thought provoking. I believe i shot one of the stags you captured on your game camera at 6:48 minute mark. is there some way you could send me the whole clip of that stag? Cheers
I named him "old Harley handle bars" Best i can do is get it up on you tube, it don't cost any thing & we stuck at home COVID so ill get it up today, maybe you can up load it or the likes, ill leave it up for 2-3 weeks then remove.
Vids great thankyou
Great video Steve. Some of the narrative from various organizations needs to be questioned. Boots on the ground experience counts for alot. Keep the awesome vids coming
Well said! & thank you
Great insight to the dilemma facing us.
Great review on Sika mate...
I have to agree with your prospective on the 1080 damage....it's a dam shame its wiping them out.
Really value this Video. Thank you for taking the time sharing from your wealthy knowledge and experience. One question I have because so many talk about it... Pressure on available feed? In your experience, is the availability of good feed in decline? Cheers
During the 50s 60s 70s sika took the browse line on trees up to 2 & 3 meters & it has stayed that way, Sika get over 95% of there food intake of the ground, constant falling leaves, fallen trees etc, sika will find food where there a pairs to be none, things like crown ferns etc are nibbled but they produce fresh growth ever spring, old growth dies off, deer browse on/off all day. Where i hunt since 1983 the availability of food is the same now as it was then, if any thing more food is available now as 1080 has cut the population right back, some places ive gone to for years is now thick with growth because of the big snow in 2016, it took out massive amounts of the bush canopy allowing light in, you should see the growth there, these areas will be thicker that ever in 5 more years, bush lawyer is also taking over, open dead ground is blamed on deer browse when in many cases its been like that for years, soil to acidic or alkaline wont allow growth, the lack of top soil, no sun light getting in etc
@@Woodsmanhuntingfishing Thanks for taking time to walk me through that. Love you video s.
Thanks for posting,and I agree with what you are saying.👍
Awesome video, I completely agree with you about 1080 and deer selection. As a ‘younger generation’ hunter, born early 90s, I’m just interested to know your opinion on hunting pressure. Was hunting as popular as it is now, compared to 80s-90s?? I just know Clemets Rd, obviously a popular area to hunt Sika, seems to be very busy. Almost every corner there is a vehicle parked during the peak of the roar. Do you think high numbers of hunters are contributing to deer decline too?? I’m hoping the sika will bounce back as I have plenty of hunting years to be had! Thanks a lot for your videos, best sika content available!
Normal hunting pressure for the most part keeps animal numbers steady, deer are born to replace those that are shot, numbers fluctuate up/down.. The chance of a high population returning like 60s 70s etc is nil, 1080 wont allow it.. Hunting became bigger say 80s on wards, & more so today, just cause you see lots of cars don't mean much, most of our hunts we go home empty, that's why we return, "this time you buggers ill show you" hunting is so enjoyable & rewarding.. until its rains then its crap
Haha thanks for the Nick Jones Special video. Goes to show they’re still out there.
I get your points, specific to the area you hunt. I agree with WildNZ comment - the message as I've understood it from such organisations is site specific. E.g. remote areas only accessible by helicopter, not to mention the remote zone where it has been evidently shown animals are in poor condition, barren hinds etc. The effect of 1080 is also so variable depending on the site and conditions at the time of dropping. E.g. both Ahimanawa drops seemed to have had no impact on deer numbers. I certainly don't agree with 1080, just pointing out we should take each site individually.
I do feel the stags get a hard time, with electronic callers etc. nowadays it seems the Sika roar is very busy! Just got back from a trip and it just seemed there was such a high number of hinds to stags. Very little roaring, although end of April..? Hope more and more hunters think about the type of stag they are shooting as you point out, cheers
Interesting and thought provoking, cheers for the vid 👍
Interesting perspective. Tend to agree. Cam Speedy had started to influence me. But wasn't totally sold on his sales pitch. In Haast waiting for the whitebait. Miss the Kaimanawas
Scales can be drawn up to suit your own agenda, other words yes they can be misleading.
ironic that DOC now targeting Tahr nannies. They want them gone not reduced
great vid,
Interesting perspective, I respect your opinion and experience for the area you have hunted and enjoy your videos. I can’t help but feel however that your narrative here is somewhat misleading. You refer to the sika herd as a whole which covers a huge area over multiple ecosystems.What about the areas that are in fact over populated and don’t get 1080? There’s a lot of them. Your patch isn’t the only place sika live and the current narrative from these organisations reflects that they understand each area has different circumstances and different management needs. The most common issue in a lot of areas is that hind numbers need to be reduced. Again, respectfully, I don’t disagree with what you might be seeing in your area, I do think however it is wrong to pitch a counter argument that lacks full disclosure to the wider picture. Like everyone else, I want to see healthy deer, big stags, native bird life and the flora and fauna thriving.
I agree with you guys both. in some areas that are well hunted deer numbers are where they should be, and also some areas not so well hunted deer numbers are too high. what i dont understand is why the organisations promoting hunters to shoot more deer dont specify that.
Hunters asking "where to go to shoot a sika" will always get the same answer; clements road, kiko road, when there should be encouragement to hunt areas less frequented with higher deer numbers.
"the current narrative from these organisations reflects that they understand each area has different circumstances and different management needs" . Respectively bullshit, show us proof then of the sf, nzda, gac where they have proved what you have said to be true in what they have said and promoted? They all have said to reduce hinds in general ie everywhere and have not said only in high density or "over populated" areas let alone name where those areas are. We even had a group from the thames valley nzda turn up to our camp down Clements in the roar and say " we hope to nail a few hinds because Speedy says so". I have never shot a skinny "because of over population" deer in that area ever in 18 years. "The current narrative from these organisations" is actually what is misleading. No offence intended and I respect your opinion.
35 years gathering information over a 20km square area on sika deer in the bush is not "a narrative perspective" its a educated hunters perspective, a scientist of deer i guess one could say. I have not based my findings on the river flats of Oamaru Mohaka or Poronui area!! You speak of area's high population with no 1080, are you talking private blocks that hunters have restricted or nil access 90% of the year? then that's why they may have higher numbers than public land, because those blocks are locked up from hunters who keep animal numbers in check. Based on my findings after a 1080 drop culling out hinds is not the best, hinds on "public land" need to be there to breed in hope of countering the devastation of 1080.. The drop this year was put off for 12 months, if its dropped in good weather & the baits lay on the ground for 2 weeks & more, the kill rate on sika deer could be as high as 60%,, a sobering thought for any hunter..
Like I said, I don’t necessarily disagree with what you may have experienced in your area. I respect what you have experienced in that regard. To be fair though like I said, 20km square is a very small percentage of the entire sika range. If the numbers in your area are in fact low and at a sustainable level then yes good, not shooting hinds is the right thing. This doesn’t apply to everywhere though and you have pitched it like it does which is incorrect and misleading, my key point i’m getting at. I do agree, the SF and others could do a better job of relaying the areas that do and don’t need specific targeting of hinds, that piece is lacking. The same thing your pitch is lacking. In those organisations defence, they are under resourced and over criticised, playing a bloody tricky role in a very complicated political environment with many parties to please. I and other hunters have experienced sika outside of your area that are over populated and in poor health, public land and private. I also see this regularly in red deer herds that don’t have 1080, they are at tipping point of doing concerning damage to the bush and the animals are in poor health/condition because we don’t shoot enough and also can’t shoot enough to control them. I have learnt in my time already to take peoples experience with a grain of salt. From your videos and the way you do things, I do see you are an excellent bush sika hunter with a passion for what we do, I admire that and bloody enjoy your stuff. I do hope this can remain constructive and you can see my point as I can see yours. Thanks.
Some very interesting views posted in the comments. I think there could be an element of truth in all the comments, however the one thing that seems to be overlooked is that the aim for using 1080 coupled with shooting breeding hinds is not to control herd numbers, it's to eradicate them (as per your narrative), doc have proved their regard for hunters interests is only a facade. On 1080, interestingly, one area I hunt rains green, (4yrly ?) No possums, no Tomtits, no bush Robbins, bugga all fan tails, no rats, plenty of Tui and Bell birds, the odd More pork. Early this year we saw our 1st possum, and the odd Tom Tit, we just started to think things were coming right (regards bird life) and guess what, Green rain is about to fall again. Frustratingly disappointing!!!!!
p s, sorry, this was way to long.
You kill a stag you've removed one deer, kill a hind and you've killed her and every fawn she'll ever produced.
Here in Australia hunting is in a bad way with government culling and promotion of hunters killing everything they see.
Love your videos and respect for nature, can't wait to get back over to hunt sika again. Incredible deer and a real challenge.
Interesting views. Don't get me wrong I can't stand DOC but when we think of deer herd management overseas, We never shoot spikers ( these can be your future trophies) we shoot cull stags for meat (to get them out of the gene pool) and hinds. Now i have hunted Sika deer for many years in NZ and there is a general lack of numbers for the most part. Perhaps not removing hinds in this sense is logical. that just leaves cull stags.
In terms of the bird life in the bush. I too have also noticed a huge decline in bird life since the 90s
I used to hunt the Te Iringa area in the days when the hut was still there. I remember seeing Kakas and Pigeons and all sorts. These days the bush is quiet. The question is have the birds been killed off by 1080 or have the been killed off by rats, stoats and weasels?
I live in Australia now and my mate that has hunted 30 odd years in NZ recons there are more deer around everywhere in NZ now than there was in the 90s. Is that true or not the case?
Yes we never no what a spiker will grow to, shooting a few hinds as normal hunting keeps numbers going along nicely, but asked to target them along side 1080 in the long term will have a big effect, ive seen it happen. The per posed 1080 drop in good weather next year could take out 40 to 60%, a sobering thought for any hunter..
Perspective is misleading ....and I see Mr.West is at it again #sigh... You forget that in areas these hinds AREN'T BREEDING IN THE FIRST PLACE because of their poor condition and quality of feed
Misleading is ones perspective! hehe see what i did there, im joking as its such a lovely day out side, Now if hinds are not breeding then deer numbers will be on the decline in those areas you speak off? so hinds in those areas are probably more valuable on the hill than in a freezer? Lets face it hinds are like a dairy cow they are having the life sucked out of them 24/7,, feeding young or pregnant its a losing battle for them, they will never be in top condition, have you seen a fat dairy cow? & they get fed the best of the best...
Hi Kylie. Yes I have voiced my disagreement in the blanket narrative that your organisation preaches. It is based on my own and others experience in the areas we hunt over many years and nothing personal towards anyone. What you have said above in your comment , in the areas we hunt is simply not true (actually never has been) and that is a fact regardless of what you are told. All the best in the scrub and have a great week. Just because someone dosnt agree with the narrative does not mean they are wrong.