Under the 18th Edition BS 7671 will this Gas Pipe be an Extraneous Conductive Part & Require Bonding
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ต.ค. 2018
- The metal gas pipe that can come in contact with the soil is very short in length will this give a low reading to Earth...?
If the metal gas pipe is concealed in the concrete floor to get to its point of use will this create a low reading to Earth...?
Relevant article released under the 17th Edition Wiring Regulations this link has apart about determining an extraneous-conductive-part by measurement professional-electrician.com/f...
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![Gas Pipe Bonding Requirements, NEC 2020 - [250.4(A)(4)], (12min:16sec)](/img/n.gif)
Thanks for the information in the description 👍
currenlty doing my level 2 - this video helped 100x more than the textbooks
As a retired One time Chartered Surveyor I'd just add that while the ground level should be 150mm below the dpc I don't suppose many here would be surprised how often it isn't once a homeowner decides to add some paving or a flower bed.
Always great to bring to the floor topics that provoke discussion and debate 👍🏻
If in doubt Bond it out
Metallic pipes entering the building having an insulating section at their entrance need not be connected to the protective equipotential bonding.
If in doubt read the regs.
Could be making the installation dangerous by bonding the pipework
The gas is likely gonna be connected to an earthed electrical equipment and if that was the case then bonding it isn't as bad as what the theory makes it out to be
As with many others who commented, I would not have bonded it. The pipe is at DPC, and ground should be at least two courses of bricks below that. The soil heap shown is clearly spoil heaped up. I might even have been inclined to give it a boot shove in to the hole.
As a Gas trainer I dispute the argument raised by the electrician. This in my opinion is like saying I don't want to fit a socket here because the plumber may in the future install a bath here or sink making it a zone 0 or zone 1 etc. Each trade has to conform to buildings regulations and gas is no different. The installers work to many normative standards which includes the ESP (Cadent in this case) to ensure pipes are installed at sufficient heights. It's up to building control to monitor compliance with ground and building works so other trades don't contravene other regulations. I always teach guys in hindsight if unsure remember rectum protectum and take the safest option and MAKE SAFE.
Building control??? If seen so many wrong things not being flagged by building control that begs the question why building control or inspections.
For the difference in cost I'd probably err on the safe side and bond. If in doubt I'd always go for the safest option, bonding removes any element of risk that the pipe could become an extraneous conductor.
Interesting....... Other than a small additional cost I see no harm in reinstating the bond.
You obviously don't understand the theory behind not binding then.
Read the regs and install to them
steveyboy6 - your point?
There is one thing I am not going to stop doing..... Is bonding the incoming services under any circumstances. I bet in time to come the need for the bonding even with an installed incoming service will be reinstated.
Personally I would always add a bond as then not only are you eliminating any doubts but then its also future proofed if any additions was to be made
Very helpful and informative. Thank you.
The ground level should always be at least 150mm below dpc level, so the copper pipe would never come into contact with the ground.
I totally agree 👍
Clearly not 150mm from ground level in this case, get the contractor back to correctly install
@@gr1809 The ground level is 2 courses (150mm) below the DPC apart from a little heap that I suspect is from the excavation for the gas meter/connection etc that will be removed when backfilling.
@@gr1809 or go round his house with 10 heavies and fill him in
Unfortunately i still see new builds with external ground level being too close to dpc
you can clearly see the damp proof membrane on the brick work and the soil level should be 2 bricks below this so the soil should be nowhere near the pipe that answers the question for me
That's what I thought too. The pipe appears to be about level with the DPC. But I thought maybe 'ground level' may be defined as being within a certain distance of the ground rather than necessarily touching. Though no measurement was quoted in the video.
Consumers side copper pipe in contact with the fabric of the building, therefore needs bonding
Nice clean meter box.
If it were me I'd temporarily pack the short conductive piece of metallic gas pipe with soil and disconnect all the fortuitous parallel earthing paths if possible and test if the gas pipework from the met to the pipe didn't come in under 22 k ohms then you've ensured that no current exceeding 10ma would flow through a person under earth fault conditions and you can go home and sleep well. Great video by the way Gaz, it's good to see you collaborating with one of the other heroes of the industry sparky ninja
As someone who holds both qualifications, domestic gas and 18th, i would say that it was not a requirement to bond the pipe. The box is a semi-recessed type , the lower section being within the ground , the upper section where it widest is designed to be above ground. Not really sure why the guy behind the camera thinks the dirt would be brought back to a level near the lid of the box, bit hard to say without zooming out and looking at the big picture.
Having said that, he is the guy putting his signature on the document, and he would have to answer to the powers to be should anything happen. If he believes in his opinion that a risk exists whose level exceeds what he deems to be safe, then i leave that decision to him and cannot tell him he is wrong. If in doubt, be safe.
Rather than worry about soil, I personally wish to understand in bad weather, which could occur, snow or just heavy rain could provide a conduit, is there a risk I am not competent to know ,but would like to.
That is a semi recessed gas meter enclosure meaning it is only partially recessed into the ground.the soil would never be brought up to door hinge level plus all soil needs to be a minimum of at least 150 mm below DPM course any higher they would bridge the DPM.
I would strongly agree with you Gaz can’t see the gas pipe coming into contact with the soil. Great short film once again pal thanks.
Thanks for taking the time to comment in such detail and watching Gaz
Gaz, on Part 2 of BS7671 'Definitions'... The exact wording for an Extraneous-conductive-part is "A conductive part liable to introduce a potential, generally Earth potential, and not forming part of the electrical installation"... The key word here is "liable", liable can also mean likely😎
The video that guy said when they reinstate the floor it will be at ground level and level with the pipe... When it rains then🤷♂️
I would have to say I agree with Gaz. The box would have to be virtually buried to lid level, but it is an interesting point. Being so used to bonding incoming services, I would probably bond it too if I had any doubts as I would be responsible for the safety of the installation.
The video is to provoke and it looks like it has. Good comment 👍
That semi concealed box should never be completely at ground level. There's a lower section that goes into the ground and the main box, where the meter is, that should sit just at floor level.
If the ground was brought up that high it would be breaching the DPC???
I personally would of bonded the copper pipe as im sure the regs state that if its fed into the installation in pvc then its not needed but it is fed to the meter in pvc then comes into the installation in copper so it enters the house from outside in copper so i would say it still needs bonding
This pipework in this video needs bonding still as it is not installed where it enters the building.
It’s strange how history repeats itself. There were in previous reg. changes where the earth connection was fitted, then the next addition it was not, only to find the next addition it came back! I wonder how long this reg will last before it gets re-connected? “Just in case” scenario! Maybe an amendment or new reg. addition? Check out the reg history? It’s been on, it’s been off, and then back on again!
also good to note to achieve 0.05 ohms the length would be limited to around 25-30meters i would take 25meters as the max tbh allows for ambient temp changes
Water is a conductor - so it only takes a heavy shower to cause water form a contact between the consumer side gas pipe and earth. Also what is the potential conductivity of the damp brick work. Also is the area liable to flood risk. Just because it looks ok at the time you are there - you need to think of a worst case situation. Play safe and bond.
Hi Gaz, according to reg 411.3.1.2 second paragraph it would need earth bonding because it enters the building in metal and the point of entry does not have an insulating section because the meter is outside. Also reg 544.1.2 and page 49 indent (b) of the on site guide, it says 'should be' but the sentence starts off with 'where practicable' in regards to the 600mm rule, that would normally mean if it's not practicable then as close as. But regardless of where you bond it, it needs to be done as it enters the building in metal.
It does have an Insulating section you can see it in the video, look closely between the pipe and the mortar. that is a GasSafe requirement so would be have passed regs.
@@sofasoul5367 yes I can see it, but my point is although it is plastic, by the time it enters the building it is metal. So it enters the premises in metal and on top of that the definition of extraneous in the definitions section used the term liable which also means likely. In this case it's quite likely the compost would fill up to the pipe level causing it to be earthy.
Another Great video!
A quick question though... say the metal gas pipe going to the boiler in the property becomes live from a poorly insulated cable in the boiler. Then someone outside grabs the short bit of copper pipe before it goes into the property while stood on Earth. Does this not present a possible reason why it could be class as extraneous conductive part, or due to having no earth potential does this stop it being one? I am sure if this happened the RCD would trip and I know I’m playing devil’s advocate, just seems a little alien to me not to have this main bonding especially when the metal work is close to the ground. Any help on this issue would be great.
Michael
It's very common for pipework after the gas meter to be buried at some point before is gets to a gas cooker or boiler. To my mind, if unless it can be shown that there's a good deal of electrical insulation between the gas or plumbing pipework, then they ought to be bonded. The danger is that if there's a broken PEN, then there would be electrical appliances with high voltages in close proximity to metal which is at ground potential. It's entirely irrelevant whether any effective grounding of the plumbing or gas pipes is on the supply side or within the property. It has the same dangerous effect in the event of a PEN failure.
Of course it's not exactly difficult to measure the insulation between pipework and earth potential. A meter between the pipework and the CPC in the electrical system would show that. If in doubt, then it surely ought to be bonded.
Would it be possible to do a video on Earthing Rods? I am an apprentice but struggling a bit when it comes to the understanding of earthing rods? Many Thanks
I would like to point out that the supply pipe into the property is in contact with the wall which is at Earth Potential, therefore Bonding Required.
Thank you! Another point to make surely is even if the pipe wasn't in contact with the wall, it will be connected to a boiler that is connected to water that is most likely touching either the wall or in fact the ground.
Even if the copper pipe on the consumer side is not in contact with the general mass of earth where it enters the building is there a possibility that it could come into contact after it enters? I`ve been on jobs where pipes have been covered in building rubble which has been swept down a lifted floor board into the floor void.
I thought extraneous meant from outside to inside not just from underground? Belt and braces I’d say, if in doubt bond it
I understood all exposed gas pipe should have protective tape over the Gas pipe, this would keep the soil clear but what about the internal gas pipe connecting to a gas appliance that requires an electrical supply? I would then consider the gas pipe to be an extraneous conductive part which requires bonding. The whole rationale behind earthing and bonding is to prevent a difference in potential between metallic parts so bond gas and water.
As a gas engineer we are obliged to point out where bonding is not visible within 600mm, before any branch, or at the nearest point of entry if in a meter box and has a 10mm2 earth cable connected. This is in line with electrical standards, i guess for electricians the problem comes along when we identify the earth bond is not as per the above, we are obligated to leave a card informing the customer that they need to consult an electrician to check if bonding is required. This is because we are not qualified to make that judgement. If bonding is missing then this will happen more often i guess causing both trades an issue, we appear to be in the wrong with the customer and you guys are called out to confirm a correct or in correct installation. All in all its a minefield for us! One question, in the video the guy connected the bonding but perhaps didn’t need to, is this an issue or just unnecessary work?
So, if the short piece of metal pipe on the consumers side from the gas meter was “shrouded” or encased in a plastic covering I.e. heat shrink wrap or pipe insulation maybe, keeping it away from any soil externally, would it then be acceptable not to run a 10 mm conductor to it?
Thoughts please
Read the article in the link for details. This pipe wouldn’t give you a low reading ohm path to earth. Think how much pipe work is buried in the great mass of earth when it’s a metal gas pipe supply and think how short this one is metal pipe is. Thanks for commenting and watching GSH Electrical 👍.
If the pipework is insulated where it ENTERS the building then no earth bonding is required.
Metallic pipes entering the building having an insulating section at their entrance need not be connected to the protective equipotential bonding.
Some people cable tie the earth binding to the copper gas pipe when running, is this correct method of installation?
What isolation was needed. Was that the Main Switch that was turned off ?
but gas regs require bonding at the meter as a current standard, does/ will this change that.
I thought the reason bonding is required of metallic gas pipes is so that fault current cannot pass from one property to another via the metallic gas supply pipe. If there is a plastic (before the meter) pipe, but the metallic (after the meter) pipe does happen to have soil touching it, will that really provide a path into (or out of) the property for fault current to flow?
Nick, the fault current will take any parth home! It will be quite happy to try and escape via say the 0.5mm or 0.75mm CPC of the boiler control flex, etc.. 😁
If it was not bonded would this mean that supplementary bonding would be required in the bathroom.
Does this apply if your Gas pipes are metal but the supply has been disconnected and capped off within the meter? The Gas pipe entering my property from the meter is Metal.
The copper gas pipe will be connected to a boiler, or gas hob. Either item will have an electric supply, therefore a CPC. This means that in the event of an electrical fault on the boiler or hob the copper gas pipe will become highly dangerous as it is connected metallically to the exposed conductive parts of the boiler or hob and is already at ground potential. Therefore, far better to bond it. It is wrong to assume that installation pipework, which is connected to electrical equipment in the house, is not at ground potential just because it isn’t touching the actual earth. We’re not talking about a metal mirror above a fireplace. It’s a piece of copper clamped to the metalwork of the boiler
could the pipe be grounded by touching the sleeve in wall therefore bonding needed. gas refs state bondingrequired
Laying a conductive part onto the outside pipe could bring it into contact with ground. Lightning strikes although improbable could strike the gas pipe. Earth it.
How can i download the 18th edition...???
Thanks
How do you bypass the meter though?
G.what is the reading of metallic water pipe or gas coming into the house before it is bonded and would they reduce the touch voltage or how dangerous would they be not bonded what could happen wcs
what has changed with the 18th edition regarding bonding? under the 17th edition i was always under the impression that if services gas or water do not introduce earth potential into the installation because they are plastic fed, then no main bonding was required.
Hi you are correct they just reiterated the point in the 18th 👍
Hi Gaz,
What are your thoughts?
If a PVC pipe is supplied for GAS and so no bonding is required or instated. A gas appliance (hob ignition or boiler supply) is supplied via a 0.75mm flex or similar. This would in theory earth the pipework also (but badly as it's not going to be anywhere near what as good as a 10mm earth bond). But would the potential be the same or different to a bonded water supply or earthed electrical appliance? What's tge risk of coming in contact with both at the same time. Maybe keep the bonding in place could be the solution.
Hi Luke good article in the description thanks for commenting Gaz
@@GSHElectrical Great stuff. That's my bedtime reading sorted 👍
I would imagine There would be zero potential as any potential that would be introduced by the cpc of various circuits would be at the same as the whole of the equal potential zone existing within the property. This whole not boding of plastic pipes is nothing new and has only been re worded in the 18th due to lots of debate and mid under standing of main bonding, the only real world way of knowing whether a piece of pipe, piece of metal sticking out the ground ect is classed as extraneous is to test it via the test outlined in guidance note 8. Love your content by the way luke.
As a gas man (SGN) I would hope PVC is never used for gas. It is horrible stuff and we look to get rid of it where possible. A low pressure service like the one in this video is normally in 32mm diameter MDPE (Medium Density Polyethylene).
Personally (again as a gas man) I am required (under the Gas Safety Installation and Use Regulations) to advise a consumer where there is no bonding on the outlet to get it checked by a spark.
I can see this causing issues in future. Say me or a colleague attend an escape (which happens to be on an appliance - say a gas fire). We Isolate and advise them to get the appliance serviced by a Gas Safe Engineer, and also advise to get the bonding checked by a spark... Consumer calls the spark first (it's warm and they don't need the gas fire right now). They come out and see the faintest glimmer of yellow at the bottom of the box and realise (correctly) that the incoming service is PE. They advise that all is fine (as per BS7671) and the customer is happy. 3 months later it's getting chilly and they finally get that fire serviced and de-isolated) The Gas Safe Engineer is bound by the same regs as me and will again advise that there is no bonding and to get a spark out. They then don't know who to believe.
We then have the situation of someone possibly deciding never to have an EICR done or never having a gas appliance serviced because they don't trust trades.
cjmillsnun you are exactly right, this problem already exists and causes big issues as the whole “bond and not to bond” debate is viewed differently by each and every person. This is why I can’t understand why bs7671 do not state that the pipe work should be tested to confirm that bonding is required and if not a label could be affixed to the fuse board informing other trades as to why no bonding exists.
It requires testing in line with guidance note 8 to prove one way or another.
More likely and quite common for the meter box to fill with surface water rather than the soil level to be considered.....
Good topic I would bond it based on the possibility of it being buried in the earth once they filled hole bank in.
I'm Gas Safe & Napit. This is where electrical regulations differ from gas regs. Either way just to comply with gas safety regulations. The installation should be equipotentialy bonded. If any of the pipework becomes live at least it will have path to ground. There will be occasions where customers will call to say the Gas person has left a bonding notice on the gas meter. ☹
Ground level needs to be two brick courses under DPC. so no issue unless building regs are ignored.
I don't get why the level of earth around the meter box is relevant.as a meter engineer I've personally experienced voltage on a gas pipe that was in a semi concealed gas meter such as the one in your video.the majority of incoming gas supplies come in a plastic pipe wheather in the ground or on the wall.i would of just bonded it anyway.
Gaz at your house how the hell are you supposed to take a meter reading when you need to or to check your gas bill? At least at the other
House they put the gas meter on its sack side so it can be read.
Also thinking about the building is built on concrete foundations then the metal pipe passing through the brick work could still be at poprtentiol to earth as the foundation and the building is on the greater mass of earth?, If you stand on a bear concrete floor with bear feet and touch a live conductor you will be killed as the current will pass through you to earth. Just a thought .
Fantastic video as always Gaz 👍👍👍❤️
Thing is what happen on an old install where the gas supplier replaces the metal supply pipe with plastic. Would you remove the earth clamp and cable. For me No because what if the gas pipe was just supplying a gas cooker with a rubber hose supply and under the floor a cable with a damaged sheath was touching or resting on the gas pipe ?.
In this situation I would leave well alone
Can bonding the gas pipe ever be incorrect?
Hi I wonder if you could help, would an amateur radio tower with an antenna attached with coax cable entering house then connected to equipment that's powered by mains electricity be classed as an extraneous conductor and require bonding
Hi, I would expect the tower to be at Earth potential (EMP lightning static ETC). If it is bolted to a concrete base, it requires an earth spike for the above.
It is most definitely not classed as extraneous but your radio will have an earth bonding point round the back.
If this is then connected to your earth spike too, for lightning safety ETC.it would not come under the electrical regulations anyway, as it is not part of the services installation in the house. Most likely the equipment has its own power supply. If the equipment is vintage, then it might have a "live chassis" but I doubt it.
You don't say if you are a Novice, intermediate or Full licencee.
If you are a full licencee then you would not be asking the question, as it is covered in the exam.
David (G1ZQC)
I'm a bit lost with this, what is the difference in the pipe touching the ground when it is clearly touching the wall which is clearly touching the ground making it connected to earth.
If the concern is the earth might be brought up to the same level as the outgoing gas pipe, thus making it an extreneous path to earth, surely the pipe going through the wall, sleeved and most likely touching that sleeve, it would make it again an extreneous path again? On another note, this gas pipe connects to a gas boiler say for central heating. What is connected to that boiler? Mains water. What's the mains water incoming pipe touching? The ground! My house was built 12 tests ago and my water incoming pipe is in cooper pipe or at least that's what I see at the stop cock. Wouldn't this make the gas pipe an extreneous path to earth on it's own?
Coming in very late on this, your incoming gas pipe is metal. At 5:10 on you can see the insulating joint below the shut-off valve, there to stop fault currents flowing via the gas main to earth. With this there does it still need to be bonded?
👍🏻
That is the meter box adaptor and not an insulating joint. Also I would point out that the MEB connection for the last clip is incorrect as it is fitted on the gas meter installation and not the consumers pipework. The gas meter installation finishes at the outlet of the box.
If you have a plastic water yet metallic gas, you bond the gas. But the pipes will be joined together in the installation so wouldn't that then need the main water to have a bond also
Hi. 100% for me... video to following in the coming weeks 👍. Thanks for watching and commenting. Gaz
The semi con box should be bonded eventhough the service is PE. The meter box is a ground box and can fill up with water and soil..... therefore the meter can become grounded. Hence the need to bond the pipework
I have never locked off the main switch in a consumer unit to install a bonding cable
There could be a potential difference between the earth bond and neutral if you don't. It's safer to isolate the incoming supply on both line & neutral.
It’s great to see David Attenborough getting involved in a bit of bonding, makes a change from the usual wild life stuff
what would happen if the supply neutral broke or came disconnected and some point into a property.(tncs set up) Would the copper pipe now become live as there would be no path to earth via the plastic gas supply pipe. Making it less safe to bond pipe in the first place???
I wouldn't have bonded. Really that would be the same height as the damp proof layer. Which should be 150 mm above ground level . I would thought it was unlikely the box be buried to that height.
conduct a 23k test as per gn8 for extraneous parts suspected if in doubt test it out
Great comment 👍
@@GSHElectrical appreciate it love your vids keeps me sharp got assessment for part p tomoz my inspector loves me , not
@@GSHElectrical it is surprising the amount of sparks not heard of such test maybe a vid on this would be good for yourselfs bit of content id watch it
Gas pipes and any water pipes, oil pipes which pass through a masonary wall are going to create a potential to earth .
loose cannon how?? Not been a dick.. genuinely curious
Static Electricity can build up in PE plastic pipes that’s why we use equipotential bonds and that’s why you should always Earth the pipe work.
If unbonded then a fault could occur inside the property causing the pipe to become live, householder needs to put credit on the key and rests hand on the pipe while earthed to ground :(
Gas board at some stage will change the meter, put the jump lead across the meter in case there is current flowing to earth via it and apply the spanner while earthed :(
Bond it plastic or metal inlet !
If the building has been secured against electromagnetic radiation then bonding must be done (Tempest / Teapot).
What happens when it snows and the gas pipe is covered with snow (could be slushy type with low resistance) and therefore connected to the mass of the earth
Hi. The amount of pipe on show is so small it would never be an extraneous conductive part. Information in the description... Thanks for watching Gaz.
Automatic disconnect under fault conditions, resistance in snow means snow warms up and melts, path removed :-)
I bet the voice is Chris 😁
It's never incorrect to install a protective earth conductor. It can only be incorrect to not install it.
I've often seen earth clamps on plastic water pipes. It doesn't matter that their is an earth clamp on a plastic pipe, it only matters if there isn't one where it's actually going to work ! :D
Worrying that the person that installed an earth clamp on to plastic thinks it is worthwhile. If this is their level of knowledge of electricity they should not be working in the electrical industry, full stop.
@@deang5622 The person who fitted an earth clamp to a plastic pipe is not thinking for themselves. They are probably just doing as they were told, following the rules, etc. Same as wearing the covid muzzle and queuing up for jabs. Switch brain off and do as you are told. Repeat orders to others.
It's nothing to do with being qualified or in the right union. People just need to engage their brains.
It's irrelevant whether the gas service is plastic as the 22mm copper gas pipe passes through the 2 courses of brick/block work as it makes its way to the boiler in dare I say it every case. These bricks/block are in contact with the General mass of earth and will give a low ohm reading. Test the pipe as GN 8 and the result would mean to bond it.
it will not be filled back with soil as then there will not be two bricks high to damp from earth what is required ,,,
The soil should not reach the gas pipe as soil level should be 2 brick courses lower than DPC.
Hi agreed 😁
Its quite evident that running a 10mm CPC back to the board requires drilling a hole in the enclosure thus ruining the
IP rating allowing disgusting cobwebbs inside
20mm stuffing gland.
Fit as close as practicable possible inside the building, within 600mm of the meter, and before any tee on the pipe. No corrosion in its lifetime and doesn’t mean adaptations to the box ( which the gas transporter owns).
Even though not required, it can't hurt to install a protective bonding conductor to the consumers gas pipework.
Again, the point is missed.
A fault occurs, a rodent chews through a cable, the protective device does not operate. The dead rodent lies on the gas pipe inside the house underneath the floorboards, leaving the gas pipe live.
Bond the metal work, it’s as simple as that. It’s about potential differences. Limit the Potential diffences.
That is a scenario and very possible as are other scenarios. This whole video is very uninformative and misleading.
There is supposed to be a 10mm main bond no more than 1m away from the main isolator. If I am wrong then let us know!
Too many comments citing the literal text in the regs. You are only a crappy sparky if you create an unsafe installation. No one can knock you for being over safe, similar to a police officer asking you questions, he/she can only base an arrest on what you have done not what you haven’t done etc.
Saying that, the ground level should never be within less than 150mm of the dpc so there looks like there could be enough spacing. Better just to bond it.👍
The earth should be no higher than two bricks below the DPC. As the copper is level(ish) with the DPC then it should always be above the earth.
After reading these comments after I already commented, I noticed some people here don't realize the dangers or the differences between creating equipotential and creating a potential 🤔
In regards to gas or plumbing engineers regs, that's not my field so I can't comment on that, I'll just make sure the electrical part is correct.
This clearly enters the building in metal and the entry point is metal so requires bonding🤷♂️
Having said that, some might say but are you not creating a potential by doing that because the otherside is plastic.... In which case you can argue that it will be the same potential or should be the same because you can almost guarantee they will have an appliance of some kind such as a boiler with all the pipes going through a metal plate. So therefore in this case it is safe to comply with the regs by bonding it.
The problem I see is if the property is not maintained and in the autumn leaves could easily build up and with a bit of rain could link the pipe to the ground!!
A bond is better than no bond. If in doubt, be overly cautious 👍🏼
What if both gas and water incomers are plastic. You take an ohms reading at pipe work which proves equipotential bonding is not required but then you bond properties copper internal plumbing anyway and now you have an outside tap connected to a tncs earthing supply with the potential for an open pen conductor?
You have to ask yourself the question why do we bond exposed conductive parts? Its to create a low resistive path to earth in order for the protective device to operate within the times specified in the regulations. If there was a possibility for this gas pipe to come into contact with a live conductor then it would be at the same potential as that conductor. Its down to the electricians judgement at the end of the day.
Bond it.
My name is Bond... Bond it 👍
Why test the bonding conductor if he installed the cable himself? He would know there is no break in the cable surely...
the only way to know is to test it
@@spencerhodges626 Not according to Guidance Note 3
@@iScoTT29 Hi Are you saying tha the pipe through wall does not introduce ground potential, simular to how a metal windown does not need bonding. If so good to know thanks for putting me right
@@spencerhodges626 I'm saying a bonding conductor being installed by one electrician in its entirety does not need a continuity test to prove its a continuous cable or that it is under 0.05ohms.
🤔 Interesting. Was permission sought from the Gas DNO to add an earth. Seems rather stupid to be installing equipment that close to wet soil these days regardless of the box. Seen too many damaged and atrocious meters as a customer
Errr...... The Supply Authority hasn't left you with a copper pipe. The pipe to which you refer is the exclusive responsibility of the Gas Installer.
Zero potential?
Without getting into any terminology, bond it - why? consider downstream on the consumers side. It's likely that a gas boiler / gas hob / cooker is likely to be used that will involve some form of electrical usage, pumps, valves ignition etc.. There will be mechanical joints to these appliance connections with likely joint paste increasing it's impedance. Therefore a voltage is potentially likely to appear on this EXPOSED conductive part and therefore present a shock hazard. The final electrical connections to these gas appliances is likely to be 0.75mm or 0.75mm with at best a 3A or 5A fuselink within the fused-connection unit (spur in old money!) If the gas pipe is not readily bonded, our invisible friend will wait to discharge to go home to earth through one of us humanoids! With the comment raised in relation to poor mansearth (TNCS etc.) we would have expected this would be afforded by combinations of earth stakes and RCD's / RCBO's.
Take my 1960`s bungalow, the gas load pipe is laid on the substrate under the suspended floor which is 200mm below DPC.
Whilst I have the microphone, the wiring regs overlooked a very important fundamental fact, that of WATER IS A CODUCTOR whether in metal or plastic pipe, so when it comes out of the tape it presents a running hazard perhaps into a metal sink / bath etc.. where it's victim is washing up in it / bathing the little darlings - so my comments here would be to bond the sink / bath etc.. and metallic waste as a matter of course without being confused by the misleading regs. At many points in the water supply network it will be both futuriously in contact with with earth though it's metallic construction, or even 'imported' bonding from neighbouring consumers. If you have plastic water pipes, try taking a 12v ISOLATED supply, connect one side to your MET and the other end into the metal sink etc.. (waste plug in) and run the water - measure the voltage - now measure the resistance of your test circuit, using Ohms law calculate the current, now do the same calculation if the voltage was 100 and 200 volts - the results may scare and surprise you!
We take sometimes corporate responsibility for the installations we do so the regs can only be a minimum standard, not final word! Thanks
Metallic pipes entering the building having an insulating section at their entrance need not be connected to the protective equipotential bonding.
The new reg depends on the pipework being insulated where it enters the building. Your video makes no sense.
Hi. Bonding not required 👍... thanks for commenting and watching GSH Electrical
Earth bonding by the meter is nothing to do with connecting with the ground it’s to do with the copper pipe ever comes live from electric cables touching inside and every house got to have this and it can’t be no more and 250 away from the meter even when we do meter exchanges we have to Earth cables either side of the meter to change it
we can refuse to touch the meter until earth and bone is in place and if the customer refuses we can get the power network out to cut the power off
Your bonding connection should not be internal
I would have fitted a 10mm wire 100% . Cover your back side for criticism safety first is my thinking.
This regulation was in the 17th edition, don't know why everyone thinks it is new.
Why bond a plastic Intake.
Great do not bond it.
Plumber or child whoever out there in the rain touching the pipework, pipe becomes live guess where the path to ground may be when you that person is standing in a puddle of water?
10mm and an earth clamp = peace of mind
The gas meter is below the level of the copper pipe so how could it ever be covered over , it would mean the digital meter would be covered, the guys being ridiculous