Hainbach - I don't know if you read messages on old videos, but thank you! I wanted to give you a tip that you might have discovered already: Inserted into the feedback chain, using a delay pedal with feedback at zero, and a 100% wet, you can set *any* delay time you want and still get the classic tape echo sound. You're not bound to the "built-in" delay time of the distance between record and playhead.
Your videos remind me of why I fell in love with electronic music. I've been having a hard time finding these warm and floating moments that your music brings to life. Thank you.
Yeahhhh. Watching the pitch shifting portion, I am sitting here listening in awe and then laughing out loud when I see his face saying "This is.... Beautiful" hahaha cuz it's like ... those moments that all of us EA folks are working towards.
I've been meaning to leave a comment: I have an old Marantz and I did what you described! I knew from the instructions in my old reel to reel that it could be a tape echo, but it's a lot easier to use the Marantz. Thank you so much for the tutorial. I also have a pile of different tapes to use, the crappiest ones are the best.
If the pmd-222 in this video has a trim pot for the tape speed (i’ve got a sony tcm-5000ev that does, accessed through the battery compartment) the trim pot could be removed and replaced with an external pot and larger knob to control the speed of the tape while it’s recording. I’ve done this using a small flat head screwdriver to adjust the pot while recording. I would then also assume an LFO could be applied to the same contacts but replace the trim pot with a jack for the CV.
just thought i should share: you make a tape echo like this with virtually any audio interface and any daw. i'm using reaper, a similar old cassette recorder, and a tascam us-1800. any interface with monitor outputs or balanced outputs should work. basically, you have one track on the daw sending out to the interface's output to the tape recorder (i have a separate box to convert this signal from balanced to line level, in my case). hit record on the cassettte machine. send the recorder's output to an input on your interface. then, on the channels that you have the recorder sending to in your daw, send back to the same interface's output to start your feedback loop. the send volume from this channel controls the feedback. and like someone below said, a delay plugin with one tap and 100% wet will let you dial in a precise delay time. you can even automate delay times in your daw: much more adaptable, reactive, and tweakable than even the most advanced tape echo units. hope this makes sense!!!
I don’t even mess with all that lol. I set up a tape delay plugin that I like and put the track I want delay on in loop mode. Then I record that track to tape for awhile and go get a drink. When I get back then I have all the material I need for whatever tape delays I want on the track. Even cooler, sometimes I change the track later but still keep the same delay. Weird effect to have an echo without an exact source.
For stereo recorders, you can use the channels in series. The playback head of channel 1 feeds into input of channel 2, and then monitor channel 2's playback head. Get double the time, and also double the hiss. :-)
The Marantz PMD430 is the equivalent stereo 3 head model. But I think it's actually better to use two separate mono tape machines, as the wow and flutter, drop outs, etc. will be different for each unit.
used that trick for my first professional commission in... 1977. For a sci-fi music festival in Montpellier. I used my first (and then only) synth, a duophonic Korg 800DV and an Akai GX-210D tape recorder deck with a DIY mixing box (just two sliding pots for L and R feedback plus two three ways switches to send the L and R play signal either to the L and R or L and L or R and L or R and R (or no fdbck in 0 position) back to the recording heads... With the many possibilities of alternating and cross switching the original stereo signals from the 800DV (basically a double 700s), I was able to record in one take quite a complex multichannel ambient loop and rhythm track....
I really like this technique. I recently acquired a Marantz PMD222 and tried it out. I was using stereo 1/8th inch - 1/4 inch converters with an RCA - 1/8th inch cable, and realized you need to use only the right channel on the RCA cables when you do this or you hear nothing from the Marantz. Took me a while to figure that out, but once I did, the real tape delay sounded amazing. This is always the funny part about trying to explore, little details can sideline your efforts for a while, but the reward is worth it. In any case, thanks Hainbach, you are always inspiring and teaching the best ideas. Fun!
A Sony TCM-5000EV also does the trick. It has speed control, but stock only works in playback mode, like the Marantz. The service manual (available online) does show that it should not be too hard to have speed control on record mode though. Great video, it shows you can use often discarded analog equipment to make modern music, if you put the time into it.
Decided to purchase a PMD 201, and got it for 80 USD! Needed a bulkier cassette recorder anyways, and this one is in decent condition. Thanks for the inspiration, as I've been meaning to get into cassette for many years and am finally taking the plunge. ♥♥♥
That loop was gorgeous - just made me think of all these films where a girl tiptoes through the forest and gets more and more lost that time dissolves until you find her just huddled under a tree.
Shoot, I own one of those Marantz PMD-222 with its original case and lanyard strap! Kinda cool seeing what you did with it. All these years I thought it was just a common ol' tape recorder that had a neat slow-speed function.
When I first saw this a few months back I was inspired so I found a PMD221 for $35 ( I know what a deal) and get this working using just a bastl dude. Thanks for the inspiration Hainbach, you're pretty cool.
Lovely guide... I got a nagra deck that I REAALLY want to try this out with...just need to find a pair for it. 😱😉 so with an open reel to reel I could just route the tape a little longer distance between the write and read head for a longer delay?
Yes you can! You just have to build a contraption for that, as the distance between read and write head is pretty close. But open reels often have very slow speeds available also.
Oh the Marantz! Much love! Never used it for tape echo tho. I preferred the cleaner sound from 1/4" for that. Great for fiction. The Nagra in the background there would probably work very well for it. I remember "discovering" tape echo by accident back in the 90's. Such fond memories!
If you were to split the output from the tape deck and put it on channel 3 and four. Pan one hard left and one hard right you could easily emulate a stereo echo. Instead of just having it on the right channel only. Add a resonance, hpf or lpf put that onto a modulator or arpeggiator into the feedback loop to filter out any frequencies you don't want to hear and making them modulate. Just thought I'd share that with you.
Activating the vari-speed while recording is very easy on the 222. One needs only cut one pcb trace and add one jumper wire. But diy deck mods is another thing all together.
Any hints on how to find the trace to cut and where to jump on marantz 221? Or 222? I’m a noob. If you could dumb it down even further I’d be forever grateful :)
I believe the high frequency noise is the bias tone building up through feedback. Cutting around 12k can reduce that if it becomes overpowering, as can reducing the tape speed during recording (which reduces high-frequency bandwidth of the tape). Also there is a simple mod to make the varispeed knob work during record; IIRC it involves no more than a trace cut and a jumper.
I'm trying to figure out how to convert my walkman to vari-speed, but now after watching this video I'm definitely interested in trying this also. Can you explain this process a little more?
Hello "What", if you're trying to modify a cassette player/recorder to have variable speed, there is a pretty straightforward method. This method requires a soldering iron, rosin core solder, wires, de-soldering wick(DIYable with pine sap and twisted copper wire) a potentiometer(500 ohm, 1k, or 5k** linear taper or "type B"), and patience. **(5k is too high a value for linear response but it will work) Of course, this modification is performed at your own risk. Your machine may become unusable in the process of modification. Electronic circuits are very delicate. NOTE: on smaller machines like a walkman, you will end up with a potentiometer on the outside of the device. suggestions are given in "MOUNTING POTENTIOMETER." ______DO NOT ATTEMPT ON NON-BATTERY OPERATED MACHINES______ IDENTIFYING YOUR MACHINE'S TRIMMER First, you'll need to look at the back of the motor that drives the capstan (usually that's the only motor). There might be a small hole on the back of the motor. if you see a hole in the back of the motor, congratulations! you'll need to take the metal cover off the back of the motor. don't worry, this won't expose any mechanical parts of the motor. skip to "TAKING APART MOTOR" If you don't have a motor with a hole in the back, there is still hope for your machine. find where the wires of the motor reach the PCB and look for a "trimmer pot." these vary in appearance but are pretty easy to spot. If you have a trimmer on the PCB board, skip to "REPLACING TRIMMER" TAKING APART MOTOR the back of your motor should have a "crimped" rim to hold the metal cover on. this part can be destructive if you don't have good tools, so if you're not ready to possibly damage your machine, consider picking up a cheap tape player from a thrift store to practice on! Using pliers, you can bend back the crimp until the plate can be popped off. failing that, you may need to bend the plate itself. Once you have the plate off, you will probably see a piece of circuit board with the solder points face up. You should see a hole in the PCB and a little slot inside that can be turned with a flathead. That's the trimmer. We need to remove this circuit board so that we can take the trimmer out. The PCB is held in place by the two motor terminals. Identifying these can be tricky, but if you look for large solder blobs that's a good place to start. using de-soldering wick, remove all the solder from the motor terminals. your PCB may need more points de-soldered, but by gently wiggling the board you can find where these points are. make note of how the board went in to the motor, take a picture or something. putting it in backwards would not be good. you should now have access to the trimmer. REPLACING TRIMMER The trimmer has three terminals. your potentiometer has three corresponding terminals. The trimmer should have two legs on the bottom and one on the top. the top terminal is equivalent to the potentiometer's middle terminal, the left and right terminals of the trimmer correspond to the potentiometer's, respectively. using de-soldering wick, remove the solder from the trimmer terminals. Take out the trimmer and take note of it's value. if your potentiometer's value is larger than the trimmer, you will get a higher range. you don't want a potentiometer with a shorter range. insert a wire into each hole and solder into place. solder wires to the potentiometer. REPLACING MOTOR PCB you should be able to reinstall the PCB and solder it into place without any problems. make sure there is sufficient solder on any connections you de-soldered earlier. TESTING Your device should not be plugged into the wall. Battery operation only! Before putting the case back together, insert a tape and test your speed modification. if the motor is not spinning, recheck your solder connections. if your motor is only playing a fast speed and the potentiometer has little or no effect, you may need to use a higher value potentiometer. if the player is very slow except for the last few degrees when turning the potentiometer, the value you are using is likely too high. if you encounter additional problems, you can contact me and I can try to assist. MOUNTING POTENTIOMETER if the housing of your device will allow it, you can mount the potentiometer by drilling a hole in the housing where there is PLENTY OF EMPTY SPACE BEHIND IT. if your device is too small to accommodate a panel mounted pot, you can use a break out box. Any small box will work, even a small altoids tin. the goal is to keep things as low profile and portable as possible.
I bet the disabling of the pitch control during recording is done by a couple contacts on the long slider switch that gets moved when RECORD is pressed. You may be able to simply scrape off a segment of the trace from one of the pins of that switch, so the pitch control no longer knows it's supposed to step aside, optionally with a switch somewhere to turn this capacity back on if you wish to use the recorder as originally intended. You may also be able to replace the speed knob's potentiometer with a higher value to get more variance in pitch as well.
I imagine all that people back then imagining that one day we will have such a perfect digital sound and effects to work with, and for now we have to stick with this analog erratic, quality loss tape thing. If you would be seeing this video in 1984 you would say "This guy is crazy??" Well, when I transitioned from tape to cd I could hear genuinely how crispy and good sounding music could be and accessible for everyone in this world. Now we love and appreciate the nostalgia of analog old crap sound we always wanted to get rid off. HIRONIC WORLD THIS is!!
Hola, excelente demostración. Quiero preguntarte si para hacer que funcione como eco de cinta hay que tener activado el modo, Tape o Surce? Muchas gracias y saludos desde Uruguay!!! feliz año nuevo.
Was able to get this working with a Boss BX80 mixer, since my four track died. Interesting that routing the output of the tape player and then using the effect / aux on that track didn't quite work the same but it's still fun. Guessing that the four track handles that audio a bit differently. Cheers.
If it was, my confusion still revolves around the signal routing out of the Marantz and into the 4 track? It seems as though the x18h can't be routed with send out from Monmix port to channel input.
A sorry, 221 is 3 head. I misread. I don't have the x18h, but you go aux - Marantz - new channel on mixer/recorder and the aux on that then controls the feedback. So you need an aux.
Post this over at reddit.com/Hainbach, someone might have that machine. I do know from experience that the routing on that run of Fostex is a little strange. Not the best user interface.
I know this is a really old video, but I was doing some reading and discovered it's possible to fix the biggest flaw of this machine - There's a really, really easy mod you can do to it to make the varispeed knob work during recording, not just playback. Basically the potentiometer has two wipers, one set at 50% permanently and one that moves with the knob. If you break the trace of the fixed wiper on the pcb and solder a little bridge from the normal wiper to where the fixed wiper goes, you can make it so that the normal wiper is used during recording. That has the effect of being able to modify the speed regardless of the mode of operation, so you can have much finer control over delay time.
Thanks for this. I have a Marantz 222 that I purchased more than twenty years ago that I use for q&d practice analysis. Looking forward to using this a tape echo.
The Sony TCM-5000EV is similar to the Marantz PMD221 and PMD222. It's not too difficult to modify these things so that the speed can be varied while recording. But note that these portable model were popular among journalists, etc. for many years, so they may be very heavily used and worn out.
When I was at WDOM we used to take a boom box and tune it to the radio frequency and set the volume just so in order to get reverberation. That was fun.
We used to mess around with tape decks in the mid 70s to create effects as we couldn't afford WEM copicats etc. It was in the early new wave music days. I had a deck where I had messed around with the heads and not only did it echo but gave ghost sounds from the other channel and reverse notes. It was hard to use live as it wasn't that reliable for a gig so my ideas weren't adopted by the band I auditioned with briefly.
This kind of reminds me of an album called Discrete Music by Brian Eno, but he used an EMS Synthi AKS and a reel to reel tape recorder plus a 31 band eq to create it.
Wouldn’t it be possible to pull the tape out between the record and play head, let it spin around something, feed it back to the play head and make it a longer delay in this way? Or am I missing something here?
Love this so much! Your videos are so inspiring! I’m following instructions but my aux isn’t working as a means to control repeats, if I turn up the aux knob I only ever hear one repeat. Any idea why this might be?
@@Hainbach Bummer, yeah I have done that as per your vid, but still no repetition :( I turn up the AUX on the channel and it just gets weird and crackly, no extra repeats?
I bought a 222 to use as a donor to fix a marantz stereo portable.... different board, different everything. so I did what you've done here. it's not too hard to modify the 222 so that the varispeed works in record.
exactly that- I wish I could post a pic here. I'm sitting right next to a studer 810 that I use for digitising 1/4" tapes, & the reel that's on it says "echo tapes- various", mostly at 3.75ips because on a revox A77 this yields a good delay time for syncopated echoes with 'berlin school'-type sequencer lines. I also used an old valve ferrograph machine which has its heads further apart. that's how I learned tape-delay, on that machine. the procedure is described in the ferrograph manual, & they put the heads exactly 1.875" apart, so that the delay time is 1 second at the lowest speed, or half a second at 3.75ips, a bit longer than on the revox. we didn't have varispeed on these decks. so the tape that's on the studer is a collection of the tapes from many sessions, spliced together. the tapes were used many times, so the recordings have a crunchy quality to them, which is also good. sometimes these tapes were themselves the basis for overdubs, other times they were just used for the effects buss & then (by some miracle) left over after the session, for the interesting bits to be spliced together & saved. I see you have a timeline there- me too, among many other electronic delays. the patch I use in mine is one I made to sound like the ferrograph on its lowest speed.
Hi Hainbach ... I have owned a Roberts C9950 for many years and it still works fine . The only thing that bugs me is the 1/4 speed function ..it works , but the quality is awful at this speed ..I would love it to be able to record at half speed ( which certainly would be useful ..for recording full soccer games for eg ) I can live without the 1/4 speed function ...Have you any ideas how I could modify it ( perhaps using the same switch ) Could I do it with a resistor or something ...Would really love your help ...Cheers
after watching a bunsh of your videos - beside your amazing freakish ways to make music - i know of what reminds me this sound very often : the "deru - 1979" album. when you didnt heard it before, i think you like it very much
Hello! Nice vid! Would it also work with a 3 head system Hi-Fi tape desk? I am wondering because the play and rec heads are very close to each other in Hi-Fi tape desk. Are they that close too in the Marantz? Thanks in advance!
Beautiful. I subbed right away. I just got my hands on a marantz 221. Would anyone be so kind as to explain to a noob which trace needs to be cut, to enable vari-speed during recording. Through reading blogs it’s still a little foggy to me.
I am trying this with a Marantz PMD-221 and a Fostex X18H...but it seems like the manual says if there is a 1/4" cable put into an Input, it won't allow signal to carry through channel as feedback path..
Super cool. Is there a rough list of cassette players that do not allow tape loops somewhere? I found a tape player recently in working condition, unfortunately, will not allow tape loops though.
Just a noob question. If there isn't a reading head this echo cannot be achieved right? I have two 4-track multitrack recorders (Yamaha MT4X) and a 1982 Sony Mu D11 2-track recorder. Just wondering if I can get to something similar to this video...
great success doing this with my old Teac X300 R2R, routing implemented using Bitwig rather than a hardware mixer and using the Line in level on the R2R to ride the feedback, cleaner results than I imagined but some great artifacts when switching from high to low tape speed. Makes me want something with more speeds and crappier quality now! Thanks for this one sir, much appreciated as always :)
Hey Hainbach, i was wondering about your Sony TCD5, is not usable for this, no variable speed? What do you use it for, btw? I know there's a couple of input transformers, so likely a more interesting sound at the input, correct?
This is very cool! I love this technique and running into the aux send for repeats is great. I'm looking into a Uher reel but I'm confused by the din connections, could you possibly explain what cables you use to connect the Uher to the cassette mixer? Is there DIN to 1/4" or to xlr for microphones? I'm sure it is not so hard, but I'm not finding much info available, thanks!
You might have trouble finding those in the US,but here in Germany googling din to XLR or din to whatever yields tons of results. Else, you can wire them up yourself, look at DIN connector on Wikipedia for correct wireing.
So there's the signal from the OP1 going into the mixer in one channel. Then it's sending that signal out through the aux send, through the marantz, and then back into itself in another channel. The marantz adds the bit of delay because of the write and read heads. So you're getting the basic signal from the OP1 and then the processed signal from the marantz at the same time
@@Hainbach ah, so this means the tape recorder doesn't actually NEED 3 heads to erase/record/play? like in these small machines theres the 3 steps combined in 1 head?
So I have two portastudio mk ii 4 tracks, with this signal flow all I get is two machines playing the same thing with no delays. Did you modify either of these to make it work?
Hi Hainbach, I tried doing this with a Tascam 414, a four-track Behringer mixer and a sequencer. It made a pretty mean sounding feedback scream but I couldn't find an echo. Do you perhaps know what I missed? Big love and keep doing your thang! Jack
Hi Hainbach, thank you for this very interesting video. I have a question for you : I'm looking for informations about turn a Nakamichi 550 Cassette Deck that I've found in the street in a Tape Echo for my guitar amp. Seems workin' but I don't know if it's enough adequately equipped to turn it in Tape Echo. D'ya think something's possible with that kind of gear ? thanks for your help.
Dear Hainbach. I bought an UHER 4000 because of this video. However, I can't make it work as a tape delay. I'm trying with the DAW (Logic 9), with the I/O plugin sending the singal with RME Fireface out 7 and returning it with the channel 7. Are you using the headphone out and the Radio/phono as input? MFG
I didn't get the idea on the three heads, at which moment does it create the echo ? On the last two heads ? (Writing & Reading) Really want to try it my Tascam Porta-07.. & i'm gonna watch the video twice i think ahahThanks you for this !
Always the people who don't ask for a subscription who get mine by nature of the quality. Thanks for pursuing authenticity and quality!
this comment made me go back and subscribe. and i NEVER subscribe
Thank you both very much! Its heartening to read something like this right after cleaning up troll comments.
Agreed. I am sick of people shoving there shit down my throat. Not to mention "WAATS UP GAIZZ!".
Agreed.
Ryan Thomas could never slow it down like that with digital without it sounding unpleasantly metallic and grainy
Hainbach - I don't know if you read messages on old videos, but thank you! I wanted to give you a tip that you might have discovered already: Inserted into the feedback chain, using a delay pedal with feedback at zero, and a 100% wet, you can set *any* delay time you want and still get the classic tape echo sound. You're not bound to the "built-in" delay time of the distance between record and playhead.
Your videos remind me of why I fell in love with electronic music. I've been having a hard time finding these warm and floating moments that your music brings to life. Thank you.
Yeahhhh. Watching the pitch shifting portion, I am sitting here listening in awe and then laughing out loud when I see his face saying "This is.... Beautiful" hahaha cuz it's like ... those moments that all of us EA folks are working towards.
I cannot believe how good that snippet of the 38 second sound bite is... you inspire me to continue my passion for analog electronic wizardry
Nice! Old dub trick: add a band-pass filter (hi cut + low cut) into the feedback loop to tame wild frequencies
True! And phasers, and a spring reverb. I love dub.
How do I do it?
in ableton, simply get an Equalizer, or get a Hardware eq, or use the EQ on your mixing console… 1000 possibilities (:
@@Hainbach I see you with spring reverbs on your desk often, but can't ever find one for sale or a brand name. Where are they available?
I've been meaning to leave a comment: I have an old Marantz and I did what you described! I knew from the instructions in my old reel to reel that it could be a tape echo, but it's a lot easier to use the Marantz. Thank you so much for the tutorial. I also have a pile of different tapes to use, the crappiest ones are the best.
If the pmd-222 in this video has a trim pot for the tape speed (i’ve got a sony tcm-5000ev that does, accessed through the battery compartment) the trim pot could be removed and replaced with an external pot and larger knob to control the speed of the tape while it’s recording. I’ve done this using a small flat head screwdriver to adjust the pot while recording.
I would then also assume an LFO could be applied to the same contacts but replace the trim pot with a jack for the CV.
this guy's voice and narration brings me peace. great video
This is definitely a Good Ear Therapy 👍🏻
just thought i should share: you make a tape echo like this with virtually any audio interface and any daw. i'm using reaper, a similar old cassette recorder, and a tascam us-1800. any interface with monitor outputs or balanced outputs should work. basically, you have one track on the daw sending out to the interface's output to the tape recorder (i have a separate box to convert this signal from balanced to line level, in my case). hit record on the cassettte machine. send the recorder's output to an input on your interface. then, on the channels that you have the recorder sending to in your daw, send back to the same interface's output to start your feedback loop. the send volume from this channel controls the feedback. and like someone below said, a delay plugin with one tap and 100% wet will let you dial in a precise delay time. you can even automate delay times in your daw: much more adaptable, reactive, and tweakable than even the most advanced tape echo units. hope this makes sense!!!
I don’t even mess with all that lol. I set up a tape delay plugin that I like and put the track I want delay on in loop mode. Then I record that track to tape for awhile and go get a drink. When I get back then I have all the material I need for whatever tape delays I want on the track. Even cooler, sometimes I change the track later but still keep the same delay. Weird effect to have an echo without an exact source.
For stereo recorders, you can use the channels in series. The playback head of channel 1 feeds into input of channel 2, and then monitor channel 2's playback head. Get double the time, and also double the hiss. :-)
Nice! I have to try that with my M15. Though the way its patched right now that might be a tad difficult.
The Marantz PMD430 is the equivalent stereo 3 head model. But I think it's actually better to use two separate mono tape machines, as the wow and flutter, drop outs, etc. will be different for each unit.
used that trick for my first professional commission in... 1977. For a sci-fi music festival in Montpellier. I used my first (and then only) synth, a duophonic Korg 800DV and an Akai GX-210D tape recorder deck with a DIY mixing box (just two sliding pots for L and R feedback plus two three ways switches to send the L and R play signal either to the L and R or L and L or R and L or R and R (or no fdbck in 0 position) back to the recording heads... With the many possibilities of alternating and cross switching the original stereo signals from the 800DV (basically a double 700s), I was able to record in one take quite a complex multichannel ambient loop and rhythm track....
I really like this technique. I recently acquired a Marantz PMD222 and tried it out. I was using stereo 1/8th inch - 1/4 inch converters with an RCA - 1/8th inch cable, and realized you need to use only the right channel on the RCA cables when you do this or you hear nothing from the Marantz. Took me a while to figure that out, but once I did, the real tape delay sounded amazing. This is always the funny part about trying to explore, little details can sideline your efforts for a while, but the reward is worth it. In any case, thanks Hainbach, you are always inspiring and teaching the best ideas. Fun!
A Sony TCM-5000EV also does the trick. It has speed control, but stock only works in playback mode, like the Marantz. The service manual (available online) does show that it should not be too hard to have speed control on record mode though. Great video, it shows you can use often discarded analog equipment to make modern music, if you put the time into it.
Decided to purchase a PMD 201, and got it for 80 USD! Needed a bulkier cassette recorder anyways, and this one is in decent condition. Thanks for the inspiration, as I've been meaning to get into cassette for many years and am finally taking the plunge. ♥♥♥
The passion with which you approach your craft is inspiring. Thank you.
That loop was gorgeous - just made me think of all these films where a girl tiptoes through the forest and gets more and more lost that time dissolves until you find her just huddled under a tree.
Shoot, I own one of those Marantz PMD-222 with its original case and lanyard strap! Kinda cool seeing what you did with it.
All these years I thought it was just a common ol' tape recorder that had a neat slow-speed function.
When I first saw this a few months back I was inspired so I found a PMD221 for $35 ( I know what a deal) and get this working using just a bastl dude. Thanks for the inspiration Hainbach, you're pretty cool.
Lovely guide... I got a nagra deck that I REAALLY want to try this out with...just need to find a pair for it. 😱😉 so with an open reel to reel I could just route the tape a little longer distance between the write and read head for a longer delay?
Yes you can! You just have to build a contraption for that, as the distance between read and write head is pretty close. But open reels often have very slow speeds available also.
HAINBACH the nagra e that i got sadly hasnt got varispeed. 😬 But its red!👍🤪
Oh the Marantz! Much love! Never used it for tape echo tho. I preferred the cleaner sound from 1/4" for that. Great for fiction. The Nagra in the background there would probably work very well for it. I remember "discovering" tape echo by accident back in the 90's. Such fond memories!
If you were to split the output from the tape deck and put it on channel 3 and four. Pan one hard left and one hard right you could easily emulate a stereo echo. Instead of just having it on the right channel only. Add a resonance, hpf or lpf put that onto a modulator or arpeggiator into the feedback loop to filter out any frequencies you don't want to hear and making them modulate. Just thought I'd share that with you.
I think he knows that. He uses the paning to make the effect more obvious to us listeners and actually cherishes the dirt that gets introduced.
Activating the vari-speed while recording is very easy on the 222. One needs only cut one pcb trace and add one jumper wire. But diy deck mods is another thing all together.
Any hints on how to find the trace to cut and where to jump on marantz 221? Or 222? I’m a noob. If you could dumb it down even further I’d be forever grateful :)
I believe the high frequency noise is the bias tone building up through feedback. Cutting around 12k can reduce that if it becomes overpowering, as can reducing the tape speed during recording (which reduces high-frequency bandwidth of the tape).
Also there is a simple mod to make the varispeed knob work during record; IIRC it involves no more than a trace cut and a jumper.
Thank you for the explanation! The HF noise on the Marantz is something I enjoy a lot on it.
Using really cheap tape might help too.
BEAUTIFUL! Thank you, Mr Hainbach! May this be a time of discovery and creativity. Best wishes.
Just stick a pot on the live to the motor and you have vari-speed.
I'm trying to figure out how to convert my walkman to vari-speed, but now after watching this video I'm definitely interested in trying this also. Can you explain this process a little more?
Hello "What", if you're trying to modify a cassette player/recorder to have variable speed, there is a pretty straightforward method. This method requires a soldering iron, rosin core solder, wires, de-soldering wick(DIYable with pine sap and twisted copper wire) a potentiometer(500 ohm, 1k, or 5k** linear taper or "type B"), and patience.
**(5k is too high a value for linear response but it will work)
Of course, this modification is performed at your own risk. Your machine may become unusable in the process of modification. Electronic circuits are very delicate.
NOTE: on smaller machines like a walkman, you will end up with a potentiometer on the outside of the device. suggestions are given in "MOUNTING POTENTIOMETER."
______DO NOT ATTEMPT ON NON-BATTERY OPERATED MACHINES______
IDENTIFYING YOUR MACHINE'S TRIMMER
First, you'll need to look at the back of the motor that drives the capstan (usually that's the only motor). There might be a small hole on the back of the motor. if you see a hole in the back of the motor, congratulations! you'll need to take the metal cover off the back of the motor. don't worry, this won't expose any mechanical parts of the motor. skip to "TAKING APART MOTOR"
If you don't have a motor with a hole in the back, there is still hope for your machine. find where the wires of the motor reach the PCB and look for a "trimmer pot." these vary in appearance but are pretty easy to spot. If you have a trimmer on the PCB board, skip to "REPLACING TRIMMER"
TAKING APART MOTOR
the back of your motor should have a "crimped" rim to hold the metal cover on. this part can be destructive if you don't have good tools, so if you're not ready to possibly damage your machine, consider picking up a cheap tape player from a thrift store to practice on! Using pliers, you can bend back the crimp until the plate can be popped off. failing that, you may need to bend the plate itself. Once you have the plate off, you will probably see a piece of circuit board with the solder points face up. You should see a hole in the PCB and a little slot inside that can be turned with a flathead. That's the trimmer. We need to remove this circuit board so that we can take the trimmer out. The PCB is held in place by the two motor terminals. Identifying these can be tricky, but if you look for large solder blobs that's a good place to start. using de-soldering wick, remove all the solder from the motor terminals. your PCB may need more points de-soldered, but by gently wiggling the board you can find where these points are. make note of how the board went in to the motor, take a picture or something. putting it in backwards would not be good. you should now have access to the trimmer.
REPLACING TRIMMER
The trimmer has three terminals. your potentiometer has three corresponding terminals. The trimmer should have two legs on the bottom and one on the top. the top terminal is equivalent to the potentiometer's middle terminal, the left and right terminals of the trimmer correspond to the potentiometer's, respectively. using de-soldering wick, remove the solder from the trimmer terminals. Take out the trimmer and take note of it's value. if your potentiometer's value is larger than the trimmer, you will get a higher range. you don't want a potentiometer with a shorter range. insert a wire into each hole and solder into place. solder wires to the potentiometer.
REPLACING MOTOR PCB
you should be able to reinstall the PCB and solder it into place without any problems. make sure there is sufficient solder on any connections you de-soldered earlier.
TESTING
Your device should not be plugged into the wall. Battery operation only!
Before putting the case back together, insert a tape and test your speed modification. if the motor is not spinning, recheck your solder connections. if your motor is only playing a fast speed and the potentiometer has little or no effect, you may need to use a higher value potentiometer. if the player is very slow except for the last few degrees when turning the potentiometer, the value you are using is likely too high. if you encounter additional problems, you can contact me and I can try to assist.
MOUNTING POTENTIOMETER
if the housing of your device will allow it, you can mount the potentiometer by drilling a hole in the housing where there is PLENTY OF EMPTY SPACE BEHIND IT. if your device is too small to accommodate a panel mounted pot, you can use a break out box. Any small box will work, even a small altoids tin. the goal is to keep things as low profile and portable as possible.
Thank you, Raccoon Eating Cacti...
@@museum1401 update if you're invested in this, I found that a 1k linear taper pot works excellent.
@@RaccoonEatingCacti Awesome... Yes, I'm planning to mod an old 4-track cassette. Very helpful stuff - thanks :)
Good lord my friend. Every time I watch your videos, Its like a whats what of equipment that I wish I could afford.
I assembled much of thisover the course of 25 years, and often cheaply. It helps that I have no hobbies and everything is a busi Ness expense.
@@Hainbach
Tried it and loved it!! The only thing to consider is that the hiss from the echo would come from speaker (since its paned)
In the 80s we had an 8 track echo. It was a pain in the arse.
I bet the disabling of the pitch control during recording is done by a couple contacts on the long slider switch that gets moved when RECORD is pressed. You may be able to simply scrape off a segment of the trace from one of the pins of that switch, so the pitch control no longer knows it's supposed to step aside, optionally with a switch somewhere to turn this capacity back on if you wish to use the recorder as originally intended. You may also be able to replace the speed knob's potentiometer with a higher value to get more variance in pitch as well.
I imagine all that people back then imagining that one day we will have such a perfect digital sound and effects to work with, and for now we have to stick with this analog erratic, quality loss tape thing. If you would be seeing this video in 1984 you would say "This guy is crazy??"
Well, when I transitioned from tape to cd I could hear genuinely how crispy and good sounding music could be and accessible for everyone in this world.
Now we love and appreciate the nostalgia of analog old crap sound we always wanted to get rid off.
HIRONIC WORLD THIS is!!
Hola, excelente demostración. Quiero preguntarte si para hacer que funcione como eco de cinta hay que tener activado el modo, Tape o Surce?
Muchas gracias y saludos desde Uruguay!!! feliz año nuevo.
This video made me want to cry at points. Some of those sounds were so beautiful.
That is beautiful! I have an old vacuum tube powered wire recorder I want to turn into a lo-fi echo. This is a great way to start. Thanks!!
Hainbach! I JUST bought a Marantz PMD420! I really wanted a stereo machine but unfortunately, because it has only two heads
Wow that is so cool man. Good for you.
Was able to get this working with a Boss BX80 mixer, since my four track died. Interesting that routing the output of the tape player and then using the effect / aux on that track didn't quite work the same but it's still fun. Guessing that the four track handles that audio a bit differently. Cheers.
Hinterbandkontrolle! That sounds like the name of a Kraftwerk album!
What about some kind of voltage controller/variac? To speed up/slow down the tape? And a low pass filter for hiss.
If it was, my confusion still revolves around the signal routing out of the Marantz and into the 4 track? It seems as though the x18h can't be routed with send out from Monmix port to channel input.
A sorry, 221 is 3 head. I misread. I don't have the x18h, but you go aux - Marantz - new channel on mixer/recorder and the aux on that then controls the feedback. So you need an aux.
Post this over at reddit.com/Hainbach, someone might have that machine. I do know from experience that the routing on that run of Fostex is a little strange. Not the best user interface.
I know this is a really old video, but I was doing some reading and discovered it's possible to fix the biggest flaw of this machine - There's a really, really easy mod you can do to it to make the varispeed knob work during recording, not just playback.
Basically the potentiometer has two wipers, one set at 50% permanently and one that moves with the knob. If you break the trace of the fixed wiper on the pcb and solder a little bridge from the normal wiper to where the fixed wiper goes, you can make it so that the normal wiper is used during recording. That has the effect of being able to modify the speed regardless of the mode of operation, so you can have much finer control over delay time.
Thanks for this. I have a Marantz 222 that I purchased more than twenty years ago that I use for q&d practice analysis. Looking forward to using this a tape echo.
The Sony TCM-5000EV is similar to the Marantz PMD221 and PMD222. It's not too difficult to modify these things so that the speed can be varied while recording. But note that these portable model were popular among journalists, etc. for many years, so they may be very heavily used and worn out.
acreil what is the difference between a 221 and 222 ?
The 222 has a balanced XLR microphone input. I think that's about it. I think the 221 is a little less cramped inside.
Got it thx! I got a 221 awhile back (wanted a 430 but kept losing auctions) and didn’t know the difference from the 222.
I figure it's better to have 2 or 3 mono recorders so you can do real time tape flanging. And they're cheaper than the stereo models anyway.
The lovely , otherworldly sound of tape ( or a binson !). Great ✨
Such joy in the art is contagious! Thank you!
Great video, it opens an entire world of possibilities in cuddling sounds instead of harsh and bitter.
Thanks a lot!
When I was at WDOM we used to take a boom box and tune it to the radio frequency and set the volume just so in order to get reverberation. That was fun.
I've done this by accident too, with a normal akai tape deck. I felt like a crazy genius scientist. Never did bother to recreate it, sadly
We used to mess around with tape decks in the mid 70s to create effects as we couldn't afford WEM copicats etc. It was in the early new wave music days. I had a deck where I had messed around with the heads and not only did it echo but gave ghost sounds from the other channel and reverse notes. It was hard to use live as it wasn't that reliable for a gig so my ideas weren't adopted by the band I auditioned with briefly.
This kind of reminds me of an album called Discrete Music by Brian Eno, but he used an EMS Synthi AKS and a reel to reel tape recorder plus a 31 band eq to create it.
Forever a fav!
I am so happy this channel exists!
Wouldn’t it be possible to pull the tape out between the record and play head, let it spin around something, feed it back to the play head and make it a longer delay in this way? Or am I missing something here?
Love this so much! Your videos are so inspiring!
I’m following instructions but my aux isn’t working as a means to control repeats, if I turn up the aux knob I only ever hear one repeat. Any idea why this might be?
Thank you Natalie!You have to plug the recorder output onto a channel and use the aux on that channel, feeding the recorder back into itself.
@@Hainbach Bummer, yeah I have done that as per your vid, but still no repetition :( I turn up the AUX on the channel and it just gets weird and crackly, no extra repeats?
I bought a 222 to use as a donor to fix a marantz stereo portable.... different board, different everything. so I did what you've done here. it's not too hard to modify the 222 so that the varispeed works in record.
also, old 'echo tapes' from revox A77s often yield surreal alternate mixes of the pieces we were recording at the time.
Can you tell me more about that? You mean A77 used as echoes and the tape has a weird mix of the original?
exactly that- I wish I could post a pic here. I'm sitting right next to a studer 810 that I use for digitising 1/4" tapes, & the reel that's on it says "echo tapes- various", mostly at 3.75ips because on a revox A77 this yields a good delay time for syncopated echoes with 'berlin school'-type sequencer lines. I also used an old valve ferrograph machine which has its heads further apart. that's how I learned tape-delay, on that machine. the procedure is described in the ferrograph manual, & they put the heads exactly 1.875" apart, so that the delay time is 1 second at the lowest speed, or half a second at 3.75ips, a bit longer than on the revox. we didn't have varispeed on these decks.
so the tape that's on the studer is a collection of the tapes from many sessions, spliced together. the tapes were used many times, so the recordings have a crunchy quality to them, which is also good. sometimes these tapes were themselves the basis for overdubs, other times they were just used for the effects buss & then (by some miracle) left over after the session, for the interesting bits to be spliced together & saved. I see you have a timeline there- me too, among many other electronic delays. the patch I use in mine is one I made to sound like the ferrograph on its lowest speed.
what piece of tape gear do you not have!?
So many! My dream list is long from being fulfilled. But I like hunting for cheap stuff - I bought this way before they got expensive.
This is actually less noisy and wobbly than my Echocord Mini. Sounds very nice!
Is there a way to get that beautiful resonance with high feedback without the hiss? Or is that something you'd have to do in post/with eq?
Hi Hainbach ...
I have owned a Roberts C9950 for many years and it still works fine . The only thing that bugs me is the 1/4 speed function ..it works , but the quality is awful at this speed ..I would love it to be able to record at half speed ( which certainly would be useful ..for recording full soccer games for eg ) I can live without the 1/4 speed function ...Have you any ideas how I could modify it ( perhaps using the same switch ) Could I do it with a resistor or something ...Would really love your help ...Cheers
You're covering all the right topics! Are you checking my search history?
At some point, certain musical minds evolve in the same direction I have found. :-)
amateur here, thank you for this - you're doing god's work
when i do this echo trick with my unit (pmd221) I get an instant highpitch feedback sound no matter how low my level is... anyone can help?
after watching a bunsh of your videos - beside your amazing freakish ways to make music - i know of what reminds me this sound very often : the "deru - 1979" album. when you didnt heard it before, i think you like it very much
So much oxenfree vibes im loving it
We used to do that with a reel to reel early 80’s, new subscriber. Very cool 😎
Great video on cheap tape echos!
Where do i get a loop tape from or how do i build one myself?
tapeline.co.uk or check out amulets channel, he has a tutorial
Very nice video Do you think you can acive same thing with a Marantz, SD-275 is double casete player and kinda have same features
10:24 sounds like a lost Jean Michel-Jarre track. Great music, and great video!
Can I ask what is the name of the 8 tape track in :31?
is there another mixer you can use besides the fostex? would anything with aux sends work? any suggestions on an alternative?
anything with aux sends works
@@Hainbach thanks! love your videos and music.
Great video! what kind of cable goes into the input of the Marantz PMD222?
RCA in/out, but it also has minijack mono out.
Hello! Nice vid! Would it also work with a 3 head system Hi-Fi tape desk? I am wondering because the play and rec heads are very close to each other in Hi-Fi tape desk. Are they that close too in the Marantz? Thanks in advance!
it will work! Slap back echo style.
hey for the life of me i cannot find what cables I need. I assume a trs to a rca mono of some sort, to go from the mixer to the tape machine?
Beautiful. I subbed right away.
I just got my hands on a marantz 221. Would anyone be so kind as to explain to a noob which trace needs to be cut, to enable vari-speed during recording. Through reading blogs it’s still a little foggy to me.
I am the wrong one to ask- opening these up is advanced level electronics.
I am trying this with a Marantz PMD-221 and a Fostex X18H...but it seems like the manual says if there is a 1/4" cable put into an Input, it won't allow signal to carry through channel as feedback path..
None of these are three head machines, so it won't work.
As I said above, 221 is a three head machine, I misread on the phone.
Your x28 might have switches which allow that routing, but maybe the x18 has to return on aux?
i added vayspeed to uher report monitors for echos, its very easy because those units motors are dc controled
Super cool. Is there a rough list of cassette players that do not allow tape loops somewhere? I found a tape player recently in working condition, unfortunately, will not allow tape loops though.
Maybe your loop is wound to tight, check www.reddit.com/r/hainbach there is a thread.
@@Hainbach Thank you! I'll give it another shot
@@Hainbach after some trial and error I was able to get the loop going! Thank you!
Just a noob question. If there isn't a reading head this echo cannot be achieved right? I have two 4-track multitrack recorders (Yamaha MT4X) and a 1982 Sony Mu D11 2-track recorder. Just wondering if I can get to something similar to this video...
Only three head machines can do this
great success doing this with my old Teac X300 R2R, routing implemented using Bitwig rather than a hardware mixer and using the Line in level on the R2R to ride the feedback, cleaner results than I imagined but some great artifacts when switching from high to low tape speed. Makes me want something with more speeds and crappier quality now! Thanks for this one sir, much appreciated as always :)
Hey Hainbach, i was wondering about your Sony TCD5, is not usable for this, no variable speed? What do you use it for, btw? I know there's a couple of input transformers, so likely a more interesting sound at the input, correct?
Straight up recording and playing back. Sounds fantastic for that.
This is very cool! I love this technique and running into the aux send for repeats is great.
I'm looking into a Uher reel but I'm confused by the din connections, could you possibly explain what cables you use to connect the Uher to the cassette mixer? Is there DIN to 1/4" or to xlr for microphones? I'm sure it is not so hard, but I'm not finding much info available, thanks!
You might have trouble finding those in the US,but here in Germany googling din to XLR or din to whatever yields tons of results. Else, you can wire them up yourself, look at DIN connector on Wikipedia for correct wireing.
Trying to work out the signal path here. Is the Marantz just acting as a preamp?
So there's the signal from the OP1 going into the mixer in one channel. Then it's sending that signal out through the aux send, through the marantz, and then back into itself in another channel. The marantz adds the bit of delay because of the write and read heads. So you're getting the basic signal from the OP1 and then the processed signal from the marantz at the same time
Danke! Wunderschöne Musik und sehr hilfreiche Videos! ❤
i could also do this on a voice recorder / dictaphone with a mic in and headphones out right?
Three heads necessary
@@Hainbach ah, so this means the tape recorder doesn't actually NEED 3 heads to erase/record/play? like in these small machines theres the 3 steps combined in 1 head?
Well there it went, my chance of ever finding an affordable 3-head deck, goddamnit Hainbach lol
Ha, in today’s video I talk about that!
Would this work while using an fx send? I'm guessing no but I thought I'd ask because the only two mixers I own only have fx sends
This technique relies on aux send, which is usually just another word for FX sent. Unless that is hardwired to an internal FX of course.
Instant Aphex Twin vibes
Wait until I make a video on the Quadraverb 😊
Me too
wow. I happen to have a Marantz with three heads and it has pitch control so the motor speed can already be changed.
But not in record mode
So I have two portastudio mk ii 4 tracks, with this signal flow all I get is two machines playing the same thing with no delays. Did you modify either of these to make it work?
Shoot like how do you even listen to the tape while it’s recording? Aren’t you just hearing the mixer, and only listen to the tape during playback?
Four tracks don't have a third head usually, the delay would mess up your playing. So you can't do that.
Play/record head are the same head
this was so neat to watch, gave me a thrill. Thanks for helping me wrap my brain around the basics
Hi Hainbach, I tried doing this with a Tascam 414, a four-track Behringer mixer and a sequencer. It made a pretty mean sounding feedback scream but I couldn't find an echo. Do you perhaps know what I missed?
Big love and keep doing your thang!
Jack
You are missing a head - 414 has a combo read write head. The delay that a separate head would create is undesirable in a four track.
Do I need a physical mixer for this? Or can I use my DAW mix channels?
If your interface has a separate out no mixer needed
@@Hainbach Thank you so much! I'll be hunting the charity shops of Galway for one of these now.
Hi Hainbach, thank you for this very interesting video. I have a question for you : I'm looking for informations about turn a Nakamichi 550 Cassette Deck that I've found in the street in a Tape Echo for my guitar amp. Seems workin' but I don't know if it's enough adequately equipped to turn it in Tape Echo. D'ya think something's possible with that kind of gear ?
thanks for your help.
Don't know - check if its a three head machine. Then it works.
hello...which make and model would you reccommend for a rich warm sound[ most important] with least noise with tone pitch control? thanks
This is quite enchanting in it's simplicity. I'd love to give it a try!
Could i use a DAW as mixer ( with an external audio device ofc) in this case? Great video btw!!
this is a really good video and i know im 5 years late but you look exactly like john green
What's being used as the monitor cable from the uher, doesn't look like din?
Uher has 1/4" headphone jack.
@@Hainbach yes, yes it does. Brain fart on my part. Thank you 👍
Dear Hainbach. I bought an UHER 4000 because of this video. However, I can't make it work as a tape delay. I'm trying with the DAW (Logic 9), with the I/O plugin sending the singal with RME Fireface out 7 and returning it with the channel 7. Are you using the headphone out and the Radio/phono as input? MFG
Is that high frequency whine / crispy noise the bias signal?
All of the 3 head recorders I looked at were pretty expensive if they worked at all! 2 heads are still cheap but they do not do echo.
Yeah, it has gotten to a point where you have to get lucky. Online is pretty dead or expensive.
just found a mint marantz pmd222 on sale for 250 euros
I didn't get the idea on the three heads, at which moment does it create
the echo ? On the last two heads ? (Writing & Reading)
Really want to try it my Tascam Porta-07.. & i'm gonna watch the video twice i think ahahThanks you for this !
Yes, the distance the tape has to travel from the write head to the read head is the delay, see 1:10.
Ok, I think I figured it out the point with the heads. I really appreciate your help here.
Will this work on a Ross 4 track tape machine?
Would this work using an EHX tri-parallel mixer instead of a 4 track?