When you think about it, tuning down to D makes sense because when you put a capo on the second fret, the dots on the fretboard line up as they would without a capo….
Hi, Thanks a lot for that video. I tought since a while that downtuning to D is the best for a 12 strings. But many luthiers told me it was too low. Well, the good thing with a D tuning (instead of a half note down as D#) is that when you have to play with others, the capo to at the 2nd fret let you the possibility to continue to use the dots as references for your chords. And effectively, the sound is amazing in bass notes and provide a deep vibration. So thank you for those good reminders.
I’m currently working on some old Kottke tunes. I have one 12-string tuned to open-G, but tuned down 1 1/2 steps. That makes the low E strings a B-flat! It’s a challenge keeping definition in that range.
I have all my guitars tuned to D standard, not just my 12-strings. It lowers the string tension, gives you more low end (I play with an amp most of the time, even when I'm practicing) and by now it just feels like normal to me. And after some time the transposing becomes second nature and the capo is still my best friend, because most of the time, when we have more than one acoustic guitar, I put my capo in weird places anywhere to play the same chords in different voicing, to really make the sound-advantage of multi-guitars shine
steph + GWGuitarStudio : I wanna encourage *everybody* to listen to Puerto Rican, Cuban, and Brazilian folkloric music. Local variations on guitars often have SUPER low tunings. You can hear the non-wound strings be floppy, and that really pushes the folkloric elements toward.
When I bought my first 12 string, I was recommended to tune it 4 semitones down from standard tuning. This worked, saved countless string breakages and gave a good sound and action. Recently, I have been exploring DADGAD tuning (or B F# B F# E F# B) and the sound is amazing. I recommend trying it, via one of the many videos available.
I got my first 12 string back in the 60s, and followed the contemporary wisdom of tuning 2 semi-tones down to D. Nowadays I tune to D# standard intervals with three of my four (all large body 17'" Jumbo) 12 string guitars (Taylors and Guilds). The 4th one is tuned down from there to a C# DADGAD interval tuning. String gauges are all {.010 - .047}. Covers a lot of bases. And the bass drone sounds from the fingerpicked C# DADGAD interval tuned guitar are awesome. I also keep a rosewood six string Jumbo tuned to D# because it can come in handy.
What gauge do you use on the down-tuned six-string?I just went back to using mediums on my jumbo Alvarez six-string. I keep it in open G tuning, but one half-step low. It just sounds richer that way.
Especially when you get older. I'm down from the recorded A major on "Hotel California", to Gb when I "attempt" it. BTW, Glen Frey used a capo 2nd fret on the acoustic for that song. (Saw it in their concert DVD).
I finally bought myself a new 12 string Guild Jumbo today after 30 years without one. HOOPLA, it's a blast. My old 12 string was not near as good and constantly broke strings, wouldn't stay in tune. I like more mellow tones and this Guild is very jangly so I tuned it down to D and it's perfect. It also has a piezo pickup. I just tried it plugged in and it blew me away. Still getting used to it, but it's coming back fast. Watched a bunch of your videos and it helps. In D tuning I can play barre chords no problem. Thank you.
My main acoustic is already tuned down half a step. I have no issues using a capo hahahaha. Thank you for this. Been playing guitar for 20 years and just got my first 12 string acoustic because I've always wanted one, but I also got a Roadie 3 tuner because they are a pain in the ass to tune all the time, so now I just go through each string and let the roadie tune it for me.
This is an excellent video - packed with truly useful info! It seems like a half-step down might be the best compromise. I have a 12-string Epiphone that I bought in 1980 - and always have kept it to standard tuning. But it inevitably developed neck sag - but only after many years. So, I got a luthier to do some re-enforcement - and about 7 years later it still holds up at standard tuning. However, I've considered down-tuning and plan to - especially after seeing this video - Thanks!
The original reason for downtuning a 12 was to save the neck from the high tension level. I have a 50 yr old EKO Ranger XII. I have always concert tuned it as using a capo dampens the jangle. The action is as low as my Les Paul Custom and as responsive. I do use D"Addario lights, but the neck is incredible. The one casualty was the top which was tending to flex up. I made a copy of the Bridge Doctor from Mahogany and changed to brass bridge pins. The sound is unbelievably good., like an acoustic version of a Rick. But EKO construction is for the most part a heavy guitar. But talk about balance body and sound. Have played it exclusively for a 3-4 hour gig numerous times with no breaks.
I still have a full 12 string set of D'Angelico lights in my guitar case! I have played 12 string guitars since the 60's and that was always my go-to string set. Actually, it was the only acoustic set I ever bought and played. Amazing to hear them mentioned. I have always kept my Guild tuned down a whole note and just capo'ed up whenever I played with others
I down tune a whole step on my 6-string to give me more range for my vocals. However I use a capo for most songs. Using a capo effects the tuning and going from no capo to with a capo requires retuning more than just changing to higher or lower fret. As you mentioned, the decreased string tension makes the guitar easier to play.
Thanks a lot for your detailed information for down tuning a 12 string guitar, also for your inspiration with different guitars and tunes. Helps me a lot to understand as a new comment in 12 string. Best regards from Germany, Patric
I have owned 12 string guitars before. And I’ve never had to down tune them. I was always told by professional guitar players. The neck is built strong enough to handle the stress of all 12 strings. I believe it because I’ve never had this problem. What really helps is running light gauge strings do not run heavy or medium gauge run, light or extra light if you can find them. I just bought a DeAngelo 12 Street tea burst. It’s beautiful. I love it. It needs a trust adjustment and it needs light strings put on it and I after that I think it will be just fine. Hope you have a great day. You have a beautiful guitar I love it.👍👍🎸🎼🎵🎶👍💖💖👍
The necks are "strong enough". On acoustic 12's, it's the sound board that buckles and/or the bridge rips off. It's especially nasty in very humid conditions
I have a Taylor 12 string tuned in D standard and a Guild 12 string tuned now in C sharp standard (previously was in D standard). I used both 12 strings in my songs that would accompany my voice that sings in a tenor range in which it is likened to both my 12 string guitars.
Hello, I have just repaired a Sigma 12 DM-2, i.e. installed a new truss rod and a jld bridge docter, but unfortunately the top pulls up a lot when I tune the strings! Strings are D'Addario 010-047 Light Gauge so I'll take another look with the camera to see if the bracing is loose somewhere. Down tuning is a good option for that! Thanks for the very insightful video! Roland from Austria
I have 2 12 string Guitars, no great name brands as you sport here but one is a Fender and the other a Japanese made Matao. The Fender is tuned down a full step and the Matao was strung as a 6 string when I got it. The Matao has a pretty good size Belly Buldge that I will get a Bridge Dr for but the Bridge is also cracked between the standard and octave strings, I assume this is due to being strung as a 6 string for a very long time. Since I purchased the Fender, I have always tuned down because otherwise I couldn't keep the octave string from breaking. Great video. You play very well.
Very in depth and informative video on down tuning a 12 string. Articulate presentation that should answer most questions. I like a whole step down then I can capo second fret to be in tune with other people and save my Guitar from damage. Tuned down this way I can use heavier gage strings that I like. Very seldom do I tune to standard tuning. The more expensive the Guitar the less chance I'm going to take. Pete Seeger always played a beautiful sounding Baritone 12 string acoustic.
I just bought a brand new Yamaha FG820-12 Dreadnought 12-String from Guitar Center in New York, and as part of their customer service (very good) they offered to tune it up and tweak it for me. I never tuned a 12 string before, and this added customer service was the main reason I bought the guitar in person, rather than online from Sweetwater, Amazon, etc. I asked them to tune it a whole octave down to D, because I heard this could improve the longevity of the guitar (which is beautiful, solid wood around, no electronics), relieving the massive pressure of the additional 6 strings, as well as to make it easier to play with lower tension. Putting a quality capo on the 2nd fret, to get back standard tuning is no big deal. I see the great 12 string players, notably Tim Buckley, use a capo all the time. When the Guitar Center tech handed the guitar back, since it was brand new, I asked him what he thought of the action, if it needed anything. He said, “Oh yeah, I had to adjust the truss rod a little, but now it’s good.” At first I was surprised, because I assumed adjusting a truss rod was a major thing, I would never trust myself to do it. But seeing your video now, I see what’s going on. The guitar’s action was set up at the factory to optimize for standard stunning. And now, down tuning a whole octave, it needed to be offset in the neck adjustment. Also worth noting, whatever gauge strings you start out with, stick with that for the life of the guitar. Otherwise you’ll end up having to do a new setup, every time do replace strings. Nice, helpful channel, btw. Definitely worth a like and a subscribe!
My idea on a second 12~string I picked up (60's Czech Lignatone, ladder~braced) was to remove the high octave strings from the bottom two strings (E, A) and from the G string, yielding a nine~string guitar strung up like Big Joe Williams did. He'd take a six~string, install a 3~tuner strip across the top of the head~stock and double up the high two strings (E, B) and the D string, and my method duplicates this arrangement. Why did he do this? I've never read his reason but I flashed on what it might be when I decided to get a second 12~stringer. On a twelve, you hit the higher octaves with your thumb when picking the bottom two strings (E, A) and the G string, so popular to blues, is harder to bend. The rest can be doubled as octaves or unisons. Dropping to nine strings as described, I get normal bass picking on the bottom strings and can easily blues bend the G string as desired. It takes a while to get used to it because of different string locations for your thumb but if you stick with it, it becomes second nature. Now what I need to do is woodshed on Big Joe, an amazing stop & start herky jerky player with as much rhythmic dynamism as John Lee Hooker but playing more traditional 12~bar blues, many of which he wrote (e.g., Baby Please Don't Go). If you've not heard of Spider John Koerner from Minneapolis, check him out. Nobody can reproduce his style and it's a know fact that John spent time with Big Joe, even traveling with him. Enjoy. It's my answer to Nashville high~strung tuning. PS, I tune down a full step, sometimes two steps like Leadbelly did.
It'll depend on the string gauge you're using. For E Standard Tuning they recommend sticking to really light gauge strings. I heard of a new and interesting set that would totally rock. That string set is the Santa Cruz Parabolic Tension 12 String Acoustic Guitar strings which are distinguished from most 12 String Guitar string sets because they have EQ'd the tension of each string to allow for a really neat balance between tone and playability.
@@GWGuitarStudio You bet and it'll totally rock because these amazing Santa Cruz Strings (they're made from an interesting alloy) have an interesting saying "Gauge Means nothing, Tension means everything".
@@GWGuitarStudio Santa Cruz Guitars found out that the problem with most Acoustic Guitar string sets is that the tension is compromised, probably due to the difference in core to wrap wire ratio from model to model as well as the very primitive materials and technology that was used to make them. Santa Cruz worked around that issue by adjusting the core to wrap wire ratio on the wound strings (for the plain steel strings they make them a bit thicker or thinner by a couple hundred thousandths of an inch).
@@RockStarOscarStern634 They’re $36 (US) for a set!!! Holy moley! I haven’t paid that kind price for strings since I lived in Deutschmark many years ago. Most of the price was in the VAT tax (Mehrwertsteuer).
When I had my 12 string, I always down tuned a full step and capo on 2nd fret. Same reason: got tired of breaking that high G. It played better and I almost never took the capo off.
My 12 strings have gone weird but that's over the stretch of nearly 3 decades , being in extreme weather changes too. I'm about to buy another one. You sound great.I use 10's thin to about 12 thin Standard.Thanks.
D'Addario has an even lighter 12 string set .038 to .009. Although they may be for electric, (not sure). I always tune to D-d, and throw the .008 G octave string away, replacing it with a .009 from the jump.
I have an Alvarez twelve string, which was having a bulging problem on the soundboard,so I decided to keep it tuned down to D,or a full tone down this takes off some tension off the bridge and the Lower tuning helps me singing Eagles songs, which would be a bit too high for my vocal range.
I had my new-to-me Guild tuned down a whole step. Today I tried to tune it up to E and broke a string, so I came here. I'll try tuning it down half a step, so I can play a few more things above the 12th fret. Thanks for expanding my knowledge about the 12-string.
I tune my 12 string Ozark to DADGAD or Drop D it gives a bouzouki sound I mainly play Celtic music but changing you tuning can really give you a good vibe and grove, dont be frightened to experiment also it makes it easier to pick. Another tip is use a lighter pick it gives you a more balanced sound for strumming. 🤩👍Great video.
Greg, very much appreciate your detailed demo and narrative on the subject of down-tuning (your accomplished skill is also inspiring). I'm a long-time guitar play, relatively new to 12-string. Thank you for the creative options you've shared here - I'm going to try these now!
Wow someone who can actually play a 12! lol Got a Maton SRS70C 12 recently and just ordered a G7th Newport 12 string capo. Played 12s live for years in standard tuning. I'll be tuning the Maton down a halfstep forevermore as I'll only be recording and multi-tracking alone from here on in. I'm after slightly reduced neck tension, a little more low end beef and to drone on with Irish bozoukis etc. No I am not changing my name to Leo. 😆 Great video thanks and all the best to you!
I tune all my guitars, even my 6 strings, down to D to D, as it fits my vocals best. On my 12 string, I use medium strings, with a heavy 58 on the bass E with no octave string… basically an 11 string. This gives a huge bass, with all the jangle I want. BTW, checking on a tension calculator, tuning down to D reduces full set tension by a full 20%.
Yea, like Don below, I had my first 12 back in the day and always kept her 2 steps down. And I focused on those open chords, beautiful. It was a Suzuki (gorgeous!)... and got stolen :( Now looking for another just to use for backing to some of my proggy stuff :) Thanks for your your informative video.
Well, thank you for the info my Taylor 12 string thank you probably 1999 I keep it tuned at regular pitch and never had any problems with it even not using my light gauge strings and always stays in tune. I’m gonna try different varieties and different tuning.
Ive been tuned down a whole step on guitar, bass, acoustic since the 90s. Thinking of getting a 12 string. Didn't know about standard tuning being possibly bad.🤔🍻
I have a custom 12 string and when I ordered it (40 years ago) I told the luthier it would always be tuned down 2 half steps to D. For the first 20 odd years I used 12 / 52 guage strings and it rocked! Then it got humidity damage in Thailand and the top lifted and bellied up. I took it back to the luthier and he did his best to get the bulge out of it. Now I tune down to C# and use 11 / 50 gauge strings and actually I prefer that. I am a big Kottke fan so it suits my style. I never buy 12 string sets. I get 2 sets of six and a couple of octave (3rd & 4th) strings extra. This way its easier to get the gauge you prefer and as a bonus you get the wound 5th string octave which gives the guitar a real deep rich bass. Concerning reasons to tune down, I have a few: It reduces the tension on the neck so you shouldn't get any lifting or neck issues. Playing with a capo in concert makes it easier because the frets are closer. The low tension also makes it easier to play. You can use medium gauge strings which give the guitar a much clearer and rich tone, especially the top strings. In all the guitar becomes more balanced. I would strongly advise any prospective 12 string buyer to get a jumbo cutaway because they produce a richer sound and you will need to play higher up the finger board when you use a capo. Another thing to look for is the neck width at the top nut and the spacing of the courses. My 12 string is 50 mm at the top nut and the courses are approx 3 mm apart. This changes the timing on the attack od each individual string when you strum slowly and the strings begin to create a natural chorus effect which to my mind is the beauty of a 12 string. When the courses are too close the chorus effect can't develop so far. It also makes it easier to pick individual strings like in the classic Hotel Chiang Mai Plaza intro by the Byrds of Pray! (the names and places have been changed to avoid copyright issues from a certain Mr. Felder).
For E Standard Tuning consider switching to Santa Cruz Parabolic Tension 12 String Guitar strings which are basically balanced Extra Light Gauge 12 String Guitar strings
For E Standard Tuning consider switching to Santa Cruz Parabolic Tension 12 String Guitar strings which are basically balanced Extra Light Gauge 12 String Guitar strings
@@kingrobert1st Try the Santa Cruz 12 String Guitar strings in E Standard sometime. They work around those compromises by having the core to wrap wire ratio EQ'd.
My Martin J12-15 was definitely built for standard tuning with Martin strings. At least that’s what it says in the warranty/care and feeding pamphlet that came with it.
I tune my 12s down to C, then the g normally in the third position, is now in the "b" or 2nd position which the octave g gives advantages for melody lines with a high sound, especially capoed up. I also use a single string for the low C with 0.059" and the F 0.046" so the 12 is actually a 10 string.
It would be good to see a video comparison of the 12 string with normal tuning and then nashville tuning (7 cents up and down) Maybe try it on all the strings to see what happens.
On "Crow River Waltz" Leo tunes his guitar down to open-Eb (open-G tuned down 2 whole steps) so the 6th String is a Bb. This was 1972 when he played the B-45.
Yes. I tried tuning down that low and it makes intonation even harder. Here’s me a long time ago playing “Crow River Waltz” tuned down a whole step. th-cam.com/video/NdOVmr5Tg0E/w-d-xo.htmlsi=FDGs3VFz5yUITZC9
@@GWGuitarStudio this seems to be the limit for 10 to 47 string gauge. (I will try the Martin Flexible Core strings you mention in your vid about string gauge)
I learned to play on a Sears Silvertone Acoustic Guitar in 1965. Heavy strings, high action seemed like half inch off the fretboard. You had to do some serious pressing down to make chords ring. My fingertips became dead quickly. If you give me an extra light gage set of strings now I'll never know if I have hold of them or not! I have to have some serious strings.
Reply to your gauge question. Elixir PB HD Light gauge {.013.017.025.032.042.053}. It's my favorite gauge for six string guitars now. I normally favor 17" LBW (lower bout width) Jumboes, but I first ran across HD gauge some years ago when I got a Taylor Grand Concert 15" LBW. Basically Medium trebles over Light bass. It is now my favorite six string gauge as long as the guitar likes it. And it helps balance the sound, especially on rosewood Jumboes. I have had an Alvarez Jumbo AJ60S (LBW 16.3") going on 20 years now. It likes Light gauge {012-.053} the best. And with the Medium trebles, it is an easy gauge to down-tune to DADGAD too. With a little extra rumble from the bass string.
Would like to hear your wisdom on the effects, pros and cons of scale length. I’ve read that a longer scale length requires more tension to bring a string up to pitch. But that sounds strange to me. What are the practical considerations. Thanks
It is true. The mass of a string brought up to pitch on a 24.75” scale feels more flexible and isn’t as bright as the same string on a 25.5” scale length. Compare the feel of a Les Paul to a Strat. Some of my banjitars are 26.5” and they are much tighter and less flexible.
Thank you for the video. Btw, beautiful guitars. You mentioned possible truss rod adjustment when down tuning. Have you had to adjust the truss rods on any of those shown in the video? Thanks again. 🎸🎶
Hi. Thanks for watching. Yes, all of them had to have truss rod adjustments to compensate for string gauge and tuning. I do this myself. It’s not difficult.
One other thing I do is tune the G B and E strings differently. I tune the octave string on G 7 cents higher and the B and E strings one string 7 cents high and the other 7 cents low. This give it a richer sound on the high strings while downtuning. Apparently this is an old trick from the Nashville people.
I wonder if the 12 string baritones last longer due to there lower tunings I have a 1994 12 string Norman and I love it but I really want a 12 string baritone I really like the sound of the lower tunings, I like to play in D standard D-G-C-F-A-D but with a baritone I would like to tune to C.
Excellent video & great info; thank you! I got my smaller-bodied Guild F112 new in 1984 & have always kept it in D Standard with 10s. I've switched between Martin, D'Addario & Elixirs, but am currently trying out Ibanez strings, completely new to me. I've never really found a good amplified sound, despite having a nice AER Domino acoustic amp & several good preamps - various undersaddles and a Fishman Rare Earth have all sounded way too brash & harsh to me. I'm interested to see that you're using Dean Markley soundhole p.u.'s, I'll look into that - thanks again! 🙂
Live, I use a combination of pickup and mic. I have the sound tech mix them 50/50 at the board. I EQ them so I get high transients and sparkle from the mic and the low end from the pickup, which is less prone to feedback.
I really wanted to hear what the guitar sounded like, tuned lower and than with CAPO applied allowing one to play in standard tuning on higher frets,,,!!!!
What would you recommend for a Washburn 12 string if I am to play sos by abba. I have seen the teacher capo at 5th fret. Would that have been from standard a 440 to a higher key? Or would he have started at a whole step down. I want to play sos onmy 12 string. I have just changed to light gauge d adarios from medium gage which had been on there since I bought the guitar at least 3 years ago. I suspect the strings were approximately 5 years old. I used to tie a turnquet around each string and burnished them to get better tone. Thanks for any help.
I don’t think I’ve ever played the song on guitar. Try to find a tab of the song and see what key it’s in. From there, you can adjust with a capo or even transpose it to an easier key.
I use open tunings on 6-string and I keep one 6-string in Open G all the time. I don’t use them on 12-string much because of hassles of changing tunings. I don’t play enough songs in open tunings to warrant keeping a 12-string dedicated to an open tuning. I do keep several 12-strings in downtunings, which may be 1/2-step, a whole-step, or 1 1/2-step down, but the string intervals are the same as standard tuning.
I wish I would of down tuned my twelve back in the day as the bridge began to pull away and the body bubbled from all that tension. Highly recommend doing this.
I wish you would have played Dead or alive by Bon Jovi. I would have liked to see how you did it with the capo at 2nd fret. I think the D tuning is awesome for the reasons you stated; but for that particular song I think he had it in standard tuning.
Just curious but what kind of Guild 12-string is that with hummingbird inlays in the headstock and the unusual pickguard. I have a Guild 12-string made in 1967. I've never seen one like yours. Has it been modified or did the custom shop build it? It looks like the offspring of a Guild and a Gibson.😮
It’s an Asian F2512, which I had customized. It actually had a chunk of the finish missing, which was why I got such a good deal on it. I refinished the section myself and I’m not so skilled in that department. The rest was added to distract from my shortcomings. It sounds great, though!
I just got my first 12 string couple weeks back.. its a cheap one (Cort ADsomething) about 150$.. I'm keeping it in -2 (DGCFAD) since i am scared it might warp the neck if i kept it standard
A really nice video, concise and understandable. I have a 1970 12 fret Martin, Ive had it 20 + years and which to be honest is a bugger to tune, half the time im tuning it and the rest playing out of tune! (Mandolin joke....!) i believe it has 9s, probably a Martin standard 12 string set actually. when its in tune it flies, it really sings. its always been in standard pitch. i'm curious now about changing things to a drop tuning, and i am mindful of the change to the guitar. i was wondering what you might think about going to 11's with a D tuning? it has no truss rod of course, Thanks in advance, again an excellent article.
Try tuning it down a half-step to D-sharp first to see how it affects the guitar. Many old Martins don’t have an adjustable truss rod. If the guitar does OK at D-sharp, you can try taking it down to D. (The guitar will probably sigh with relief after lowering the string tension after all those years!)
Thanks for the video. I have an 1980's Sigma 12 string that I rescued from an antique store. First one I've had since I was in the army in '72. My question is would it be safe to use D'Addario 9-45 extra light strings at standard pitch or is it still better for the guitar to tune down?
@@GWGuitarStudio I do notice the hand also. Trying to do the chords to Sundown the way Gordon Lightfoot did it, E5 & B5, was pretty tough for me to get a clean sound on. Funny detail is that after watching your video I went to drop a full step on my 12 string and broke a string. So now I have ordered the D'Addario 9-45 extra light strings. Thank you for your video's. Very helpful.
I've been changing my 12 strings to all locking tuners. Not because i think it will make them stay in tune any better mind you, but simply because they're a lot easier to string with lockers. Pull the string straight through, spin the lock down, cut the string off, and you're done.
You might have to fool with the G string a bit to get the proper tone. I tried 8 cents on the B and E strings and it did not work. I have been as low as 4 cents and it still has a good deep sound. But 7 cents up and down seems to be the majic number.
Thanks. There’s a story behind them. I got the guitar for a really low price, but there was a big chunk missing from the finish-a black guitar with bare wood showing. I repaired the finish, but there were still some imperfections. The pickguard was horribly scratched also, like someone strummed hard with a metal pick. I bought a stickers to distract the eye away from the bad spots. It looked so good, I got the idea to expand it as a theme. Here’s the link to the folks who make them. www.inlaystickers.com
Nice video, just what I was looking for. I have a Hokada 3142 12 string guitar (late 70s/early 80s, I think). It's a nice instrument but I've always struggled to play it. The action is about 6-7mm at 12th fret and it can be very difficult to hold down bar chords cleanly. I can't see any easy way of lowering the action so needed another option for making it more playable. I thought I'd experiment with drop tuning and have gone 1½ steps to C#. It's suddenly so much easier to play and I really like the different tone. But is 1½ steps too much?? Could I be doing damage to the guitar without realising with such reduced string tension? I've got Martin 12 strings on (10s thru 47s). Not sure if that's too light but they don't sound too bad either. Also, in E or C# tuning, at the 12th fret, I'm between ¼ and ½ step out on the octave. I rarely play past the 7th/9th fret anyway. Where do you recommend tuning the guitar from? I'm thinking somewhere around maybe 3rd, 4th or 5th fret instead, just to balance the out of tuness as I go up the neck?? I appreciate any tips or advice you're able to pass on. Cheers 🙂
I bought a Takamine 12 string in 1976, I was 16. It did look like a Martin. I think Martin sued Takamine for copying their guitars. I have a D’Angelico 12 string now. Among 4 Les Paul’s and 3 Stratocasters, a Rickenbacker 12 string that is based on Pete Townsends Rose Morris Rickenbacker.
Maybe if you use heavy strings, they have minus bass frequences extra normal note, because they want a lot of tension to be in tune. If you use light strings you're early on tune you want, and you have more bass frequences because the string doesn't have big tension
It’s always a trade-off. High tension is fine if I’m just strumming G, C, and D chords. If l’m doing athletic Kottke-style stuff, it takes lower tension.
What wonderful video full of useful information. After a many years lay off of playing my guitars, at 64 years old I have started back at it. I wish I had this information in my 20s. I would have been such a better musician.
@@GWGuitarStudio I just have a 12 string martin dx2e coming in the mail and wanted to make sure I didn’t damage it. I’m sure it’ll hold up fine between DADGAD and D standard which are the two tunings I plan on primarily using it for. Thanks
Sure. Just make sure the truss rod is adjusted for proper neck relief if you’re going to keep it in that tuning. If you change for just a song or a set and go back, that’s fine without adjusting it.
My Favorite Tuning on the 6 String is DADGAD. So based on that tuning, the music i play which a friend says is Desert Music. Which tuning should i use on a 12 string?
Can you show us some Kotke stuff…Vaseline Machine gun or similar,I’ve learned crow river years ago but only just got a 12er today…cheers.(I learned crow river in E flat open)which I worked out off the record….there was no interwebs then !
I have four Kottke tunes in my set list. “Crow River Waltz” and “The Fisherman” are the ones I do like Leo. The others are vocals, “Louise” and Tiny Island.” Those I have re-arranged to suit my vocal range. I have tried to get “VMG” over the years, but I still have trouble imitating his slide sound.
I don’t think you’d get that classic Rick sound if you tuned it down. It needs to have flatwound strings, too. Any Rick players out there who can give some advice? I can’t play them-the neck is too skinny!
Thanks for lesson, just wondering if your Guild 12 string has 2 truss rods. I have played Guilds that have 2 truss rods, and would like to know if all Guilds do. Again, thanks.
I've been playing 50yrs, but never took 12 string serious. I recently bought a Guild, from China, but some questions. Is it always hard to play by the nut? I can still return it, don't know what to do. I'm a player, pretty good. I miss not fingering like I'm used to. Tuning down help?
I've been playing since 1967 with intermittent breaks along the way but lately I feel enormous guilt if I don't pick one of my guitars up every day. then I discovered JP Cornier's inspired by Gibson video so I packed my electric guitars in their cases shoved them under the bed.. Then I bought an Epiphone Hummingbird and realised that playing electric guitar alone softens your callouses so that's where the 12 string enters and a whole new world of music opens up before me.
So I’m Confused, isn’t it bad to be playing in standard tuning because of the strain in the neck and it can bend the neck? If so, why do you have one in standard tuning, isn’t that somewhat dangerous or harmful for your guitar?
Depends on the guitar and the string gauge. Some are built to withstand concert pitch. Others, it’s better to tune down. It’s harder to play in standard. Some songs or techniques benefit from lower string tension.
I never tine to standard pitch on anything, 12 string, or not. I just prefer the lower tension. There are 12 string players who tune to a "B". Talk about a rumbling bass!
You missed the point of the whole video. It’s about having options. Being dogmatic about tuning takes away many options, which are discussed in-depth. At full pitch, there is no Leadbelly, no Pete Seeger, no Leo Kottke.
What thumb pick are you using?
Helpful video. Thank you for sharing.
It’s a Black Mountain pick. (Affiliate link) amzn.to/3Qo7g93
@@GWGuitarStudio Thank you!
When you think about it, tuning down to D makes sense because when you put a capo on the second fret, the dots on the fretboard line up as they would without a capo….
I have an Ibanez 12 l bought a month ago. Tuned to d and capo=play foreverrrrrr
Hi, Thanks a lot for that video. I tought since a while that downtuning to D is the best for a 12 strings. But many luthiers told me it was too low. Well, the good thing with a D tuning (instead of a half note down as D#) is that when you have to play with others, the capo to at the 2nd fret let you the possibility to continue to use the dots as references for your chords. And effectively, the sound is amazing in bass notes and provide a deep vibration. So thank you for those good reminders.
I’m currently working on some old Kottke tunes. I have one 12-string tuned to open-G, but tuned down 1 1/2 steps. That makes the low E strings a B-flat! It’s a challenge keeping definition in that range.
I have all my guitars tuned to D standard, not just my 12-strings. It lowers the string tension, gives you more low end (I play with an amp most of the time, even when I'm practicing) and by now it just feels like normal to me. And after some time the transposing becomes second nature and the capo is still my best friend, because most of the time, when we have more than one acoustic guitar, I put my capo in weird places anywhere to play the same chords in different voicing, to really make the sound-advantage of multi-guitars shine
Ledbelly and Seeger tuned it to C and I thought that was the standard tuning for a 12 string.
steph + GWGuitarStudio : I wanna encourage *everybody* to listen to Puerto Rican, Cuban, and Brazilian folkloric music. Local variations on guitars often have SUPER low tunings. You can hear the non-wound strings be floppy, and that really pushes the folkloric elements toward.
When I bought my first 12 string, I was recommended to tune it 4 semitones down from standard tuning. This worked, saved countless string breakages and gave a good sound and action.
Recently, I have been exploring DADGAD tuning (or B F# B F# E F# B) and the sound is amazing. I recommend trying it, via one of the many videos available.
I got my first 12 string back in the 60s, and followed the contemporary wisdom of tuning 2 semi-tones down to D. Nowadays I tune to D# standard intervals with three of my four (all large body 17'" Jumbo) 12 string guitars (Taylors and Guilds). The 4th one is tuned down from there to a C# DADGAD interval tuning. String gauges are all {.010 - .047}. Covers a lot of bases. And the bass drone sounds from the fingerpicked C# DADGAD interval tuned guitar are awesome. I also keep a rosewood six string Jumbo tuned to D# because it can come in handy.
What gauge do you use on the down-tuned six-string?I just went back to using mediums on my jumbo Alvarez six-string. I keep it in open G tuning, but one half-step low. It just sounds richer that way.
@@GWGuitarStudio I tried to reply, but it always disappears. !!
Thank you the definitive 12 string tuning video. Yours is the best I have ever seen!
It's incredibly common for live musicians to tune down 1/2 step or more because it relaxes the voice for singing for longer periods of time.
Especially when you get older. I'm down from the recorded A major on "Hotel California", to Gb when I "attempt" it. BTW, Glen Frey used a capo 2nd fret on the acoustic for that song. (Saw it in their concert DVD).
What about 1 1/2 steps. That would add more depth to the 12 string especially if doing some Leo Kottke kinds of things.
I finally bought myself a new 12 string Guild Jumbo today after 30 years without one. HOOPLA, it's a blast. My old 12 string was not near as good and constantly broke strings, wouldn't stay in tune. I like more mellow tones and this Guild is very jangly so I tuned it down to D and it's perfect. It also has a piezo pickup. I just tried it plugged in and it blew me away. Still getting used to it, but it's coming back fast. Watched a bunch of your videos and it helps. In D tuning I can play barre chords no problem. Thank you.
Congrats on the new guitar!
My main acoustic is already tuned down half a step. I have no issues using a capo hahahaha. Thank you for this. Been playing guitar for 20 years and just got my first 12 string acoustic because I've always wanted one, but I also got a Roadie 3 tuner because they are a pain in the ass to tune all the time, so now I just go through each string and let the roadie tune it for me.
Thank you Greg. You gave me a lot to try.
This is an excellent video - packed with truly useful info! It seems like a half-step down might be the best compromise. I have a 12-string Epiphone that I bought in 1980 - and always have kept it to standard tuning. But it inevitably developed neck sag - but only after many years. So, I got a luthier to do some re-enforcement - and about 7 years later it still holds up at standard tuning. However, I've considered down-tuning and plan to - especially after seeing this video - Thanks!
I’m down a full step. I learned on a twelve string acoustic years ago. Thanks for this video!
Pete Seeger advocated tuning down to D with a 12 string. & he got that from Leadbelly.
Leadbelly used to tune to C or B
The original reason for downtuning a 12 was to save the neck from the high tension level. I have a 50 yr old EKO Ranger XII. I have always concert tuned it as using a capo dampens the jangle. The action is as low as my Les Paul Custom and as responsive. I do use D"Addario lights, but the neck is incredible. The one casualty was the top which was tending to flex up. I made a copy of the Bridge Doctor from Mahogany and changed to brass bridge pins. The sound is unbelievably good., like an acoustic version of a Rick. But EKO construction is for the most part a heavy guitar. But talk about balance body and sound. Have played it exclusively for a 3-4 hour gig numerous times with no breaks.
I still have a full 12 string set of D'Angelico lights in my guitar case! I have played 12 string guitars since the 60's and that was always my go-to string set. Actually, it was the only acoustic set I ever bought and played. Amazing to hear them mentioned. I have always kept my Guild tuned down a whole note and just capo'ed up whenever I played with others
The D’Angelico strings were my favorite! My next favorite was the Martin silk and steel. Neither of those is made anymore!
I down tune a whole step on my 6-string to give me more range for my vocals. However I use a capo for most songs. Using a capo effects the tuning and going from no capo to with a capo requires retuning more than just changing to higher or lower fret. As you mentioned, the decreased string tension makes the guitar easier to play.
Absolutely a dynamite review very informative...nice playing as well!
Thank you kindly!
Thanks a lot for your detailed information for down tuning a 12 string guitar, also for your inspiration with different guitars and tunes. Helps me a lot to understand as a new comment in 12 string. Best regards from Germany, Patric
Found this really helpful as I'm dialing in a 12-string telecaster build. Thanks Greg
I have owned 12 string guitars before. And I’ve never had to down tune them. I was always told by professional guitar players. The neck is built strong enough to handle the stress of all 12 strings. I believe it because I’ve never had this problem. What really helps is running light gauge strings do not run heavy or medium gauge run, light or extra light if you can find them. I just bought a DeAngelo 12 Street tea burst. It’s beautiful. I love it. It needs a trust adjustment and it needs light strings put on it and I after that I think it will be just fine. Hope you have a great day. You have a beautiful guitar I love it.👍👍🎸🎼🎵🎶👍💖💖👍
The necks are "strong enough". On acoustic 12's, it's the sound board that buckles and/or the bridge rips off. It's especially nasty in very humid conditions
love your ovation
Have a seagull 12 string and have always tuned to d+25 yrs, mostly capo 2nd fret, now using a g7th 12 string capo, works better than any I have used
That guitar sounds beautiful.
I have a Taylor 12 string tuned in D standard and a Guild 12 string tuned now in C sharp standard (previously was in D standard). I used both 12 strings in my songs that would accompany my voice that sings in a tenor range in which it is likened to both my 12 string guitars.
Hello, I have just repaired a Sigma 12 DM-2, i.e. installed a new truss rod and a jld bridge docter, but unfortunately the top pulls up a lot when I tune the strings!
Strings are D'Addario 010-047 Light Gauge so I'll take another look with the camera to see if the bracing is loose somewhere. Down tuning is a good option for that! Thanks for the very insightful video!
Roland from Austria
Great video! Thank you very much!
You are welcome!
I have 2 12 string Guitars, no great name brands as you sport here but one is a Fender and the other a Japanese made Matao. The Fender is tuned down a full step and the Matao was strung as a 6 string when I got it. The Matao has a pretty good size Belly Buldge that I will get a Bridge Dr for but the Bridge is also cracked between the standard and octave strings, I assume this is due to being strung as a 6 string for a very long time. Since I purchased the Fender, I have always tuned down because otherwise I couldn't keep the octave string from breaking. Great video. You play very well.
Very in depth and informative video on down tuning a 12 string. Articulate presentation that should answer most questions. I like a whole step down then I can capo second fret to be in tune with other people and save my Guitar from damage. Tuned down this way I can use heavier gage strings that I like. Very seldom do I tune to standard tuning. The more expensive the Guitar the less chance I'm going to take. Pete Seeger always played a beautiful sounding Baritone 12 string acoustic.
I just bought a brand new Yamaha FG820-12 Dreadnought 12-String from Guitar Center in New York, and as part of their customer service (very good) they offered to tune it up and tweak it for me. I never tuned a 12 string before, and this added customer service was the main reason I bought the guitar in person, rather than online from Sweetwater, Amazon, etc.
I asked them to tune it a whole octave down to D, because I heard this could improve the longevity of the guitar (which is beautiful, solid wood around, no electronics), relieving the massive pressure of the additional 6 strings, as well as to make it easier to play with lower tension.
Putting a quality capo on the 2nd fret, to get back standard tuning is no big deal. I see the great 12 string players, notably Tim Buckley, use a capo all the time.
When the Guitar Center tech handed the guitar back, since it was brand new, I asked him what he thought of the action, if it needed anything. He said, “Oh yeah, I had to adjust the truss rod a little, but now it’s good.”
At first I was surprised, because I assumed adjusting a truss rod was a major thing, I would never trust myself to do it. But seeing your video now, I see what’s going on.
The guitar’s action was set up at the factory to optimize for standard stunning. And now, down tuning a whole octave, it needed to be offset in the neck adjustment.
Also worth noting, whatever gauge strings you start out with, stick with that for the life of the guitar. Otherwise you’ll end up having to do a new setup, every time do replace strings.
Nice, helpful channel, btw. Definitely worth a like and a subscribe!
My idea on a second 12~string I picked up (60's Czech Lignatone, ladder~braced) was to remove the high octave strings from the bottom two strings (E, A) and from the G string, yielding a nine~string guitar strung up like Big Joe Williams did. He'd take a six~string, install a 3~tuner strip across the top of the head~stock and double up the high two strings (E, B) and the D string, and my method duplicates this arrangement. Why did he do this? I've never read his reason but I flashed on what it might be when I decided to get a second 12~stringer. On a twelve, you hit the higher octaves with your thumb when picking the bottom two strings (E, A) and the G string, so popular to blues, is harder to bend. The rest can be doubled as octaves or unisons. Dropping to nine strings as described, I get normal bass picking on the bottom strings and can easily blues bend the G string as desired. It takes a while to get used to it because of different string locations for your thumb but if you stick with it, it becomes second nature. Now what I need to do is woodshed on Big Joe, an amazing stop & start herky jerky player with as much rhythmic dynamism as John Lee Hooker but playing more traditional 12~bar blues, many of which he wrote (e.g., Baby Please Don't Go). If you've not heard of Spider John Koerner from Minneapolis, check him out. Nobody can reproduce his style and it's a know fact that John spent time with Big Joe, even traveling with him. Enjoy. It's my answer to Nashville high~strung tuning.
PS, I tune down a full step, sometimes two steps like Leadbelly did.
Thanks for the comment. I’ll have to check it out.
It'll depend on the string gauge you're using. For E Standard Tuning they recommend sticking to really light gauge strings. I heard of a new and interesting set that would totally rock. That string set is the Santa Cruz Parabolic Tension 12 String Acoustic Guitar strings which are distinguished from most 12 String Guitar string sets because they have EQ'd the tension of each string to allow for a really neat balance between tone and playability.
I’ll have to get a set and try them out. Maybe I can do a review.
@@GWGuitarStudio You bet and it'll totally rock because these amazing Santa Cruz Strings (they're made from an interesting alloy) have an interesting saying "Gauge Means nothing, Tension means everything".
@@GWGuitarStudio Santa Cruz Guitars found out that the problem with most Acoustic Guitar string sets is that the tension is compromised, probably due to the difference in core to wrap wire ratio from model to model as well as the very primitive materials and technology that was used to make them. Santa Cruz worked around that issue by adjusting the core to wrap wire ratio on the wound strings (for the plain steel strings they make them a bit thicker or thinner by a couple hundred thousandths of an inch).
@@RockStarOscarStern634 They’re $36 (US) for a set!!! Holy moley! I haven’t paid that kind price for strings since I lived in Deutschmark many years ago. Most of the price was in the VAT tax (Mehrwertsteuer).
@@GWGuitarStudio They can wait but they do have a special sound.
When I had my 12 string, I always down tuned a full step and capo on 2nd fret. Same reason: got tired of breaking that high G. It played better and I almost never took the capo off.
My 12 strings have gone weird but that's over the stretch of nearly 3 decades , being in extreme weather changes too.
I'm about to buy another one.
You sound great.I use 10's thin to about 12 thin Standard.Thanks.
D'Addario has an even lighter 12 string set .038 to .009. Although they may be for electric, (not sure).
I always tune to D-d, and throw the .008 G octave string away, replacing it with a .009 from the jump.
I have an Alvarez twelve string, which was having a bulging problem on the soundboard,so I decided to keep it tuned down to D,or a full tone down this takes off some tension off the bridge and the Lower tuning helps me singing Eagles songs, which would be a bit too high for my vocal range.
I had my new-to-me Guild tuned down a whole step. Today I tried to tune it up to E and broke a string, so I came here. I'll try tuning it down half a step, so I can play a few more things above the 12th fret. Thanks for expanding my knowledge about the 12-string.
I just tuned my Cort 12-string guitar to standard D and it just sounds great! :) Thanks
Very nice!
I tune my 12 string Ozark to DADGAD or Drop D it gives a bouzouki sound I mainly play Celtic music but changing you tuning can really give you a good vibe and grove, dont be frightened to experiment also it makes it easier to pick. Another tip is use a lighter pick it gives you a more balanced sound for strumming. 🤩👍Great video.
Good tip!
Greg, very much appreciate your detailed demo and narrative on the subject of down-tuning (your accomplished skill is also inspiring). I'm a long-time guitar play, relatively new to 12-string. Thank you for the creative options you've shared here - I'm going to try these now!
Wow someone who can actually play a 12! lol Got a Maton SRS70C 12 recently and just ordered a G7th Newport 12 string capo.
Played 12s live for years in standard tuning. I'll be tuning the Maton down a halfstep forevermore as I'll only be recording and multi-tracking alone from here on in.
I'm after slightly reduced neck tension, a little more low end beef and to drone on with Irish bozoukis etc. No I am not changing my name to Leo. 😆
Great video thanks and all the best to you!
I tune all my guitars, even my 6 strings, down to D to D, as it fits my vocals best. On my 12 string, I use medium strings, with a heavy 58 on the bass E with no octave string… basically an 11 string. This gives a huge bass, with all the jangle I want. BTW, checking on a tension calculator, tuning down to D reduces full set tension by a full 20%.
12-string guitarists invent some of the most creative solutions to the challenges the instrument poses.
Yea, like Don below, I had my first 12 back in the day and always kept her 2 steps down. And I focused on those open chords, beautiful. It was a Suzuki (gorgeous!)... and got stolen :( Now looking for another just to use for backing to some of my proggy stuff :) Thanks for your your informative video.
Well, thank you for the info my Taylor 12 string thank you probably 1999 I keep it tuned at regular pitch and never had any problems with it even not using my light gauge strings and always stays in tune. I’m gonna try different varieties and different tuning.
Ive been tuned down a whole step on guitar, bass, acoustic since the 90s. Thinking of getting a 12 string. Didn't know about standard tuning being possibly bad.🤔🍻
I have a custom 12 string and when I ordered it (40 years ago) I told the luthier it would always be tuned down 2 half steps to D. For the first 20 odd years I used 12 / 52 guage strings and it rocked! Then it got humidity damage in Thailand and the top lifted and bellied up. I took it back to the luthier and he did his best to get the bulge out of it. Now I tune down to C# and use 11 / 50 gauge strings and actually I prefer that. I am a big Kottke fan so it suits my style. I never buy 12 string sets. I get 2 sets of six and a couple of octave (3rd & 4th) strings extra. This way its easier to get the gauge you prefer and as a bonus you get the wound 5th string octave which gives the guitar a real deep rich bass. Concerning reasons to tune down, I have a few: It reduces the tension on the neck so you shouldn't get any lifting or neck issues. Playing with a capo in concert makes it easier because the frets are closer. The low tension also makes it easier to play. You can use medium gauge strings which give the guitar a much clearer and rich tone, especially the top strings. In all the guitar becomes more balanced. I would strongly advise any prospective 12 string buyer to get a jumbo cutaway because they produce a richer sound and you will need to play higher up the finger board when you use a capo. Another thing to look for is the neck width at the top nut and the spacing of the courses. My 12 string is 50 mm at the top nut and the courses are approx 3 mm apart. This changes the timing on the attack od each individual string when you strum slowly and the strings begin to create a natural chorus effect which to my mind is the beauty of a 12 string. When the courses are too close the chorus effect can't develop so far. It also makes it easier to pick individual strings like in the classic Hotel Chiang Mai Plaza intro by the Byrds of Pray! (the names and places have been changed to avoid copyright issues from a certain Mr. Felder).
Awesome comment! Thanks.
For E Standard Tuning consider switching to Santa Cruz Parabolic Tension 12 String Guitar strings which are basically balanced Extra Light Gauge 12 String Guitar strings
For E Standard Tuning consider switching to Santa Cruz Parabolic Tension 12 String Guitar strings which are basically balanced Extra Light Gauge 12 String Guitar strings
@@RockStarOscarStern634 No thanks!
@@kingrobert1st Try the Santa Cruz 12 String Guitar strings in E Standard sometime. They work around those compromises by having the core to wrap wire ratio EQ'd.
Love that 1615 Pacemaker! I have one just like it.
Right on!
My Martin J12-15 was definitely built for standard tuning with Martin strings. At least that’s what it says in the warranty/care and feeding pamphlet that came with it.
I tune my 12s down to C, then the g normally in the third position, is now in the "b" or 2nd position which the octave g gives advantages for melody lines with a high sound, especially capoed up. I also use a single string for the low C with 0.059" and the F 0.046" so the 12 is actually a 10 string.
12-strings inspire innovative, creative solutions.
It would be good to see a video comparison of the 12 string with normal tuning and then nashville tuning (7 cents up and down) Maybe try it on all the strings to see what happens.
On "Crow River Waltz" Leo tunes his guitar down to open-Eb (open-G tuned down 2 whole steps) so the 6th String is a Bb. This was 1972 when he played the B-45.
Yes. I tried tuning down that low and it makes intonation even harder. Here’s me a long time ago playing “Crow River Waltz” tuned down a whole step. th-cam.com/video/NdOVmr5Tg0E/w-d-xo.htmlsi=FDGs3VFz5yUITZC9
@@GWGuitarStudio this seems to be the limit for 10 to 47 string gauge. (I will try the Martin Flexible Core strings you mention in your vid about string gauge)
I learned to play on a Sears Silvertone Acoustic Guitar in 1965. Heavy strings, high action seemed like half inch off the fretboard. You had to do some serious pressing down to make chords ring. My fingertips became dead quickly. If you give me an extra light gage set of strings now I'll never know if I have hold of them or not! I have to have some serious strings.
My new Taylor came in D. I tried concert and the sound was thin so back to D. I am a D man now!
I have noticed that some guitars “speak” at a certain tuning with a particular brand of strings. It takes a while to find the right gauge and tuning.
My 12s are tuned to D. A lot of my 6s Eb.
Reply to your gauge question. Elixir PB HD Light gauge {.013.017.025.032.042.053}. It's my favorite gauge for six string guitars now. I normally favor 17" LBW (lower bout width) Jumboes, but I first ran across HD gauge some years ago when I got a Taylor Grand Concert 15" LBW. Basically Medium trebles over Light bass. It is now my favorite six string gauge as long as the guitar likes it. And it helps balance the sound, especially on rosewood Jumboes. I have had an Alvarez Jumbo AJ60S (LBW 16.3") going on 20 years now. It likes Light gauge {012-.053} the best.
And with the Medium trebles, it is an easy gauge to down-tune to DADGAD too. With a little extra rumble from the bass string.
Thanks for the reply. Btw I didn’t delete the question. I wonder what happened to it?
@@GWGuitarStudio Space Aliens ?
Would like to hear your wisdom on the effects, pros and cons of scale length. I’ve read that a longer scale length requires more tension to bring a string up to pitch. But that sounds strange to me. What are the practical considerations. Thanks
It is true. The mass of a string brought up to pitch on a 24.75” scale feels more flexible and isn’t as bright as the same string on a 25.5” scale length. Compare the feel of a Les Paul to a Strat. Some of my banjitars are 26.5” and they are much tighter and less flexible.
Thank you for the video.
Btw, beautiful guitars.
You mentioned possible
truss rod adjustment when down tuning. Have you had
to adjust the truss rods on any of those shown in the video? Thanks again. 🎸🎶
Hi. Thanks for watching. Yes, all of them had to have truss rod adjustments to compensate for string gauge and tuning. I do this myself. It’s not difficult.
Sounds so much fuller.. much nicer ❤
Great info!
One other thing I do is tune the G B and E strings differently. I tune the octave string on G 7 cents higher and the B and E strings one string 7 cents high and the other 7 cents low. This give it a richer sound on the high strings while downtuning. Apparently this is an old trick from the Nashville people.
Interesting. I’ll have to try that out. It doesn’t make it sound sharp?
I wonder if the 12 string baritones last longer due to there lower tunings I have a 1994 12 string Norman and I love it but I really want a 12 string baritone I really like the sound of the lower tunings, I like to play in D standard D-G-C-F-A-D but with a baritone I would like to tune to C.
Put on a set of mediums and tune it down to C and see if you like it. C is too low for my tastes. It’s hard to keep in tune.
Excellent video & great info; thank you! I got my smaller-bodied Guild F112 new in 1984 & have always kept it in D Standard with 10s. I've switched between Martin, D'Addario & Elixirs, but am currently trying out Ibanez strings, completely new to me.
I've never really found a good amplified sound, despite having a nice AER Domino acoustic amp & several good preamps - various undersaddles and a Fishman Rare Earth have all sounded way too brash & harsh to me. I'm interested to see that you're using Dean Markley soundhole p.u.'s, I'll look into that - thanks again! 🙂
Live, I use a combination of pickup and mic. I have the sound tech mix them 50/50 at the board. I EQ them so I get high transients and sparkle from the mic and the low end from the pickup, which is less prone to feedback.
I had been looking for the perfect sound to play the last two notes of 'Jeremy'
That’s actually a 12-string bass!
Jeremy reference, denied! :)@@GWGuitarStudio
I really wanted to hear what the guitar sounded like, tuned lower and than with CAPO applied allowing one to play in standard tuning on higher frets,,,!!!!
That would have been a good idea, had I thought of it at the time lol.
What would you recommend for a Washburn 12 string if I am to play sos by abba. I have seen the teacher capo at 5th fret. Would that have been from standard a 440 to a higher key? Or would he have started at a whole step down. I want to play sos onmy 12 string. I have just changed to light gauge d adarios from medium gage which had been on there since I bought the guitar at least 3 years ago. I suspect the strings were approximately 5 years old. I used to tie a turnquet around each string and burnished them to get better tone. Thanks for any help.
I don’t think I’ve ever played the song on guitar. Try to find a tab of the song and see what key it’s in. From there, you can adjust with a capo or even transpose it to an easier key.
Great video too btw!
I use dropD and openD tunings on 12 strings guitars. They worked reasonable well
I use open tunings on 6-string and I keep one 6-string in Open G all the time. I don’t use them on 12-string much because of hassles of changing tunings. I don’t play enough songs in open tunings to warrant keeping a 12-string dedicated to an open tuning. I do keep several 12-strings in downtunings, which may be 1/2-step, a whole-step, or 1 1/2-step down, but the string intervals are the same as standard tuning.
Good video, I would have thought the lower string tension would give you less sustain?
I wish I would of down tuned my twelve
back in the day as the bridge began to pull away and the body bubbled from all that tension. Highly recommend doing this.
It’s easier on your hands, too!
I wish you would have played Dead or alive by Bon Jovi. I would have liked to see how you did it with the capo at 2nd fret. I think the D tuning is awesome for the reasons you stated; but for that particular song I think he had it in standard tuning.
I've done it - its doable.
Just curious but what kind of Guild 12-string is that with hummingbird inlays in the headstock and the unusual pickguard. I have a Guild 12-string made in 1967. I've never seen one like yours. Has it been modified or did the custom shop build it? It looks like the offspring of a Guild and a Gibson.😮
It’s an Asian F2512, which I had customized. It actually had a chunk of the finish missing, which was why I got such a good deal on it. I refinished the section myself and I’m not so skilled in that department. The rest was added to distract from my shortcomings. It sounds great, though!
I just got my first 12 string couple weeks back.. its a cheap one (Cort ADsomething) about 150$.. I'm keeping it in -2 (DGCFAD) since i am scared it might warp the neck if i kept it standard
Congrats. Welcome to the 12-string family.
@@GWGuitarStudio Thank you
A really nice video, concise and understandable. I have a 1970 12 fret Martin, Ive had it 20 + years and which to be honest is a bugger to tune, half the time im tuning it and the rest playing out of tune! (Mandolin joke....!) i believe it has 9s, probably a Martin standard 12 string set actually. when its in tune it flies, it really sings. its always been in standard pitch. i'm curious now about changing things to a drop tuning, and i am mindful of the change to the guitar. i was wondering what you might think about going to 11's with a D tuning? it has no truss rod of course, Thanks in advance, again an excellent article.
Try tuning it down a half-step to D-sharp first to see how it affects the guitar. Many old Martins don’t have an adjustable truss rod. If the guitar does OK at D-sharp, you can try taking it down to D. (The guitar will probably sigh with relief after lowering the string tension after all those years!)
That's an old joke about 12 strings, "you spend half your time tuning, and the other half playing out of tune".
Thanks for the video. I have an 1980's Sigma 12 string that I rescued from an antique store. First one I've had since I was in the army in '72. My question is would it be safe to use D'Addario 9-45 extra light strings at standard pitch or is it still better for the guitar to tune down?
I use them on a couple of guitars, but I tune them 1/2 step low. Standard pitch is just very tight and hard on the guitar and the hands.
@@GWGuitarStudio I do notice the hand also. Trying to do the chords to Sundown the way Gordon Lightfoot did it, E5 & B5, was pretty tough for me to get a clean sound on. Funny detail is that after watching your video I went to drop a full step on my 12 string and broke a string. So now I have ordered the D'Addario 9-45 extra light strings. Thank you for your video's. Very helpful.
I think the 12-fret open-headstock style works great for 12-string.
A lot of people hate the slotted headstocks because they are harder to restring, but I like the aesthetics of them.
I've been changing my 12 strings to all locking tuners. Not because i think it will make them stay in tune any better mind you, but simply because they're a lot easier to string with lockers. Pull the string straight through, spin the lock down, cut the string off, and you're done.
You might have to fool with the G string a bit to get the proper tone. I tried 8 cents on the B and E strings and it did not work. I have been as low as 4 cents and it still has a good deep sound. But 7 cents up and down seems to be the majic number.
Love the hummingbird inlays on your Guild 12-string - full custom or commercially available?
Thanks. There’s a story behind them. I got the guitar for a really low price, but there was a big chunk missing from the finish-a black guitar with bare wood showing. I repaired the finish, but there were still some imperfections. The pickguard was horribly scratched also, like someone strummed hard with a metal pick. I bought a stickers to distract the eye away from the bad spots. It looked so good, I got the idea to expand it as a theme. Here’s the link to the folks who make them. www.inlaystickers.com
@@GWGuitarStudio Thanks much - really appreciate it!
Nice video, just what I was looking for.
I have a Hokada 3142 12 string guitar (late 70s/early 80s, I think). It's a nice instrument but I've always struggled to play it. The action is about 6-7mm at 12th fret and it can be very difficult to hold down bar chords cleanly. I can't see any easy way of lowering the action so needed another option for making it more playable.
I thought I'd experiment with drop tuning and have gone 1½ steps to C#. It's suddenly so much easier to play and I really like the different tone.
But is 1½ steps too much?? Could I be doing damage to the guitar without realising with such reduced string tension? I've got Martin 12 strings on (10s thru 47s). Not sure if that's too light but they don't sound too bad either.
Also, in E or C# tuning, at the 12th fret, I'm between ¼ and ½ step out on the octave. I rarely play past the 7th/9th fret anyway. Where do you recommend tuning the guitar from? I'm thinking somewhere around maybe 3rd, 4th or 5th fret instead, just to balance the out of tuness as I go up the neck??
I appreciate any tips or advice you're able to pass on.
Cheers 🙂
It should be fine at C#. If it sounds good to you, and it feels good, it’s good!
I bought a Takamine 12 string in 1976, I was 16. It did look like a Martin. I think Martin sued Takamine for copying their guitars. I have a D’Angelico 12 string now. Among 4 Les Paul’s and 3 Stratocasters, a Rickenbacker 12 string that is based on Pete Townsends Rose Morris Rickenbacker.
Maybe if you use heavy strings, they have minus bass frequences extra normal note, because they want a lot of tension to be in tune. If you use light strings you're early on tune you want, and you have more bass frequences because the string doesn't have big tension
It’s always a trade-off. High tension is fine if I’m just strumming G, C, and D chords. If l’m doing athletic Kottke-style stuff, it takes lower tension.
How did you hook up the Dean pick up…..
Not sure what you’re asking. It came with the pickup installed. I just plug it into an amp or recording mixer.
Expression on his face when he tranisitions from babbloe mode to Kottke mode LOL Priceless.
I never got used to seeing myself on camera. I get to watching my hands on the display and I get mesmerized lol
What wonderful video full of useful information. After a many years lay off of playing my guitars, at 64 years old I have started back at it. I wish I had this information in my 20s. I would have been such a better musician.
Would DADGAD be safe long term for a 12 string Martin to be tuned to in your next educated opinion?
It’s slightly less tension than standard. Of course you tune DADGAD down to CGCFGC and use the same fingerings, with even less string tension.
@@GWGuitarStudio I just have a 12 string martin dx2e coming in the mail and wanted to make sure I didn’t damage it. I’m sure it’ll hold up fine between DADGAD and D standard which are the two tunings I plan on primarily using it for. Thanks
Sure. Just make sure the truss rod is adjusted for proper neck relief if you’re going to keep it in that tuning. If you change for just a song or a set and go back, that’s fine without adjusting it.
My Ovation 12 string tuned down a whole step.
My Favorite Tuning on the 6 String is DADGAD. So based on that tuning, the music i play which a friend says is Desert Music. Which tuning should i use on a 12 string?
Just drop it down a whole step to CGCFGC. It’ll sound amazing.
Can you show us some Kotke stuff…Vaseline Machine gun or similar,I’ve learned crow river years ago but only just got a 12er today…cheers.(I learned crow river in E flat open)which I worked out off the record….there was no interwebs then !
I have four Kottke tunes in my set list. “Crow River Waltz” and “The Fisherman” are the ones I do like Leo. The others are vocals, “Louise” and Tiny Island.” Those I have re-arranged to suit my vocal range. I have tried to get “VMG” over the years, but I still have trouble imitating his slide sound.
Im curious for your thoughts on tuning a 12string rikenbaker if you would down tune or not and if yes how many steps thanks
I don’t think you’d get that classic Rick sound if you tuned it down. It needs to have flatwound strings, too. Any Rick players out there who can give some advice? I can’t play them-the neck is too skinny!
Electric 12's shouldn't need to be tuned down.
Thanks for lesson, just wondering if your Guild 12 string has 2 truss rods. I have played Guilds that have 2 truss rods, and would like to know if all Guilds do. Again, thanks.
The US-made Guilds had double truss rods. The ones made in Asia only have one.
Not true. I have the Guild 1212e Westerly and it has double truss rod
I just received my Fender CD-140 12 string. It shipped with 12-52s, so I'd like to take it down to D. Will there be any issues?
The high end may feel a little floppy. You can play with a lighter touch or take it up to a set with .011s. Ernie Ball mediums work well.
@@GWGuitarStudio Thx!
I've been playing 50yrs, but never took 12 string serious. I recently bought a Guild, from China, but some questions. Is it always hard to play by the nut? I can still return it, don't know what to do. I'm a player, pretty good. I miss not fingering like I'm used to. Tuning down help?
Tuning down is the key to getting the best out of a 12-string!
I've been playing since 1967 with intermittent breaks along the way but lately I feel enormous guilt if I don't pick one of my guitars up every day. then I discovered JP Cornier's inspired by Gibson video so I packed my electric guitars in their cases shoved them under the bed.. Then I bought an Epiphone Hummingbird and realised that playing electric guitar alone softens your callouses so that's where the 12 string enters and a whole new world of music opens up before me.
Have fun rebuilding those callouses!
One step down with capo on the second fret saves strings and dosent warp that expensive 12 string neck.. makes sense.
So I’m
Confused, isn’t it bad to be playing in standard tuning because of the strain in the neck and it can bend the neck? If so, why do you have one in standard tuning, isn’t that somewhat dangerous or harmful for your guitar?
Depends on the guitar and the string gauge. Some are built to withstand concert pitch. Others, it’s better to tune down. It’s harder to play in standard. Some songs or techniques benefit from lower string tension.
Thx
Each to his own! And I thought Leo Kotke was awesome! I’m glad you pointed this out! Thank you!
Hearing Kottke the first time “re-wired” my brain and made me consider possibilities I had never considered before.
Could you please forward the tuning on C.
I’m not sure I understand your question. If you want “standard” tuning lowered to C, use tune your strings (low to high) C-F-Bb- Eb-G-C.
I never tine to standard pitch on anything, 12 string, or not. I just prefer the lower tension. There are 12 string players who tune to a "B". Talk about a rumbling bass!
What model Guild is that?
It’s a F2512, with some customization.
I figured the hummingbirds and pick guard were added?
However we should be able to play our twelves at regular pitch without breaking strings my Fender is one of these guitars EADGBE
You missed the point of the whole video. It’s about having options. Being dogmatic about tuning takes away many options, which are discussed in-depth. At full pitch, there is no Leadbelly, no Pete Seeger, no Leo Kottke.