ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 พ.ค. 2024
- A demonstration and lecture on why Guild Wars 2 is a game that doesn't want or need gear check.
Following is a cheat sheet for all the numbers I talk about in this video.
The group composition is as follows:
-6 dps players doing 40,000 dps each
-1 perfect player dps boon support doing 35,000 dps
-the independent variable boon dps player
-2 healers each doing 1,000 dps
The theoretical fight in question is Cosmic Observatory CM with the Dagda boss at an HP total of 57,000,000. We assume a halving of the golem dps number for the group in this encounter.
The group with a second perfect player boon dps doing 35,000 on the golem is completing the encounter in 365 seconds.
The group with an off-meta not-so-perfect player in full ascended berserker gear doing 28,000 dps on the golem is completing the encounter in 374 seconds, only 9 seconds slower than the group with the perfect player.
The group with an off-meta not-so-perfect player in full rare berserker gear doing 22,000 dps on the golem is completing the encounter in 381 seconds, which is only 7 seconds slower than the group with that same player in full ascended gear, and the clear is still only 16 seconds slower than it would be with the perfect player instead.
The group with an off-meta not-so-perfect player in full ascended celestial gear on a power build doing 23,000 dps on the golem is completing the encounter is 380 seconds, which is only 6 seconds slower than the same build in full berserker gear and 15 seconds slower than the fight would be with the perfect player instead.
I will also be sharing a community post featuring a table depicting just how low the dps requirements for raids actually are based off of enrage timers.
At the end of the day, I sincerely believe gear check would be a net negative for GW2 and would only serve to increase toxicity and further gatekeep content from players who really aren't as much of a burden to groups as people like to pretend. Skill is the ultimate deciding factor in how useful a player will be to your group, and being able to police other players' gear in no way helps you figure out the skill level of the player joining your group.
Choosing to have faith in the people joining your group costs you nothing as a commander and raid leader and makes GW2 a better game and community. - เกม
I agree wıth the point that you don't need to be a tryhard to do endgame PVE. However, rare gear is a bit too low imo. Exotic gear is already easy to get and at the sweet spot. Rare gear isn't much easier to get yet you lose too much. 28k over 22k is more than 25% DPS increase. It's not just about the time it takes to kill the boss. Because often times bosses aren't static DPS checks but they phase. Faster you phase, less shit you have to deal with. In some encounters there are even time limits that you have to kill certain things. Not to mention some builds require you to reach certain stat tresholds to be effective. There's also the issue with the boon uptime. Sometimes shit happens, sometimes mechanics require people to spread out and do stuff.
So I think rare gear falls too short to be acceptable for its slightly more accessibility. You can buy Devona's armor which has Berserker stats for like 50 silvers a piece on TP.
i have a full ascended build and i cannot do more than 20k, seeing you doing 22k with yellows makes me crazy T_T
Interesting video. If everyone on a group agreed, I'd also be okay with rare, even if it would make kind of doing phases and all the gimic a bit more tight, but seeing how really cheap and easy is to get exotics... I mean it's kind of a "just spend some of that saved up coin through leveling and get a more than decent base exotic gear and come to the raid" kind of thing, y know. It's like putting some effort on our side to join what it seems to be the late game of late games content. I think that is a more than reasonable thing to belive.
Even tho I think that, this is a video I enjoyed and I'm happy to have found it, mind opening experience ^^
I can confirm from experience that you can show up as a boondps in Celestial gear and not look in any way suspicious on the meter (although I only did it with condi builds). Also from what I've seen nobody generally actually bats an eye at the cake, ironically, I only got called out for it once in a training run, in the "live" runs you often see several cakes even. That said, I think this video has a bit of a Tragedy of the Commons going on. Certainly, one person can be wildly suboptimal and it's negligible, but if everyone is as negligent, you're approaching trouble. Even in your example, if you multiply the time loss by 10 (dps will contribute more, healers less, so it's about right), it's 160 seconds, and at that point you're already knocking on the enrage timer in Dagda CM. And even your "bad" examples have pretty good performance and a lot of thought put into them, one can mess up one's build much more than that. In my opinion, assembling decent gear and a good build is not such an ordeal (edit: far less than grinding out the gazzilion steps rotations), and having done that, you can kind of sleep on grinding the rotations and stuff, and it's still going to be perfectly okay, nobody gonna notice anything or give you any trouble. There's no reason to deliberately handicap yourself, why not let the dreaded "power creep" do most of the work?
There's one aspect everyone tends to forget, you also really need to know and understand the class and build you're playing. While many are leveling their character(s), builds at that point is useless since you haven't fully unlocked your elite specs yet.
celestial is huge dps loss on any boondps. 10-15k at least.
what you describe is fact that no1 gives a fuckin pug.
@@IIIiiiDAWiiiIII I think the point is, that that 10-15k dps hardly matters at all in GW2. I mean, aside from mattering psychologically...
@@IIIiiiDAWiiiIII ''Celestial/Hybrid Alacrity Druid'' from channel ''Alcatraz''. Runs Nature magic for extra support and boons and still does 29k ( Got informed of this yesterday and it is supposedly able to do 31k DPS even )
@@SteveWray well not in potato groups,but in 50-100 kp groups you will get call out/kicked for low dps.
Good video. I've only recently gotten into endgame GW2 and haven't run raids yet but a lot of discourse surrounding DPS and build choices feel really counterproductive. The last example with the celestial set is something I feel we need more of because PUG's cannot be trusted to bring utility, CC or sustain.
For a particularily egregious example, I've noticed that running shout heals on a DPS warrior with 0 Healing Power will more often than not outperform a full DPS spec in Fractals simply because those heals will prevent party members from wasting time getting downed.
good video, it would have help me if you had overlaid the math on the screen so i could get a good "visual sense " thank you , a fan of your vids
The gear check and build are usually just means to show experience of the player. If you do a raid you are investing your time and effort most people don’t want dead weight in their squad
This is a math solution to a non-math problem. You can make another 53 minute video about not caring if 2 players afk during encounters as the content is so powercrept that 3 proper dps are enough anyways. If you want to contribute fairly to the success of your group, bring at least exotic gear, runes and sigils, it really is not expensive, maybe a weekly of the wizards vault. Why would others keep pushing for more if you stay complacent with the most average performance? IMO, that's just not the mindset experienced players should advertise.
To be clear, I'm not advertising actively not trying, not running good gear deliberately, or not seeking to improve as a player. I'm pointing out that, even in very extreme scenarios, gear quality is less impactful than people claim when it comes to dps. This video aims to push back against the narrative that players running suboptimal setups are somehow wasting the time of the other players in the group, because that simply isn't true. People coming to raids with their best attempt at a build and being given the chance to try (and maybe even getting hard-carried) is fine with me. Additionally, I think many players in the scene would benefit from being allowed to run more resilient, simpler, and less specialized builds alongside players running meta setups instead of being pressured to conform to a more streamlined build that they might not like or that they might not be ready for yet in order to gain access to groups with experienced players.
It also is a warning about how the playerbase at large probably isn't equipped to accurately judge builds simply by looking at a person's gearset. I think it's a GOOD thing that GW2 endgame instanced content doesn't require strict optimization or harsh dps checks, because GW2 isn't like other MMOs where every class gets one gearset, one set of skills, and one rotation that is the intended way to play. I think GW2 is actively made worse when the culture around it insists upon it being played just like those other games. GW2 combat is much better than those other games. We don't need a tight dps check to be entertained, we just need fun encounters, interesting builds to play, and permission to play them.
I don't care if people are "pushing for more" or not. I care if they're being included and having fun, because that's what's best for GW2.
@@mandala3042 Your intention is all good and fair but I think there's a big flaw in the logic: You might do decent DPS in rare gear, but there are close to no players that ONLY have access to rare gear but play decently at the same time - or in other words, the moment you switch to proper gear + runes is MUCH earlier than you hitting 80+% of the benchmark. So even if the idea of promoting that rare gear is not so bad is correct, in reality people with rare gear will nearly always have terrible DPS - and that is what the community will see.
Just one question, sorry if my ability to follow the math isn't great. But, where you are saying "This is how much longer it takes",
|is that assuming that everyone else is taking the most optimal build and gear and that you are the only one taking the less optimal?
Or is it assuming that everyone takes the less optimal?
In his example every other guy is using optimal gear and does optimal dps
How can you see your damage in chat?
It's a function of the golem room specifically. It prints that information every 20% of the golem's hp.
hmmm well the thing is that with people with rares usually don't really know how to play their class. cause your gear more shows your experience and your experience shows on the meter, in which the groups i've been a part of don't really care anyways as long as your not on the floor.
i want a gear inspect cause im just a curious person and an off meta enjoyer, seeing what people are running especially for specific toughness targets. i really like heal bladesworn and heal renegade and those builds are extremely questionable compared to meta stuff but i do be here to have fun. obviously i can just ask but i think there is a surprising amount of personal variation that goes into builds it gets kinda tedious listing off gear.
my main point is that i don't think you're giving the community enough credit and maybe its common knowledge its always skill > build. i only started playing a few months ago but i have cleared everything less challenging than htcm (soo2 10% wipe :( ) but i would not have progressed this far without how nurturing and helpful the community and the ppl i met along the way have been. me personally when i see a dps being out dpsed by a healer im like... is everything okay? how can i help you? but yeah im proud to be a part of this community
skill > build to a point. If your build is trash, you will do very little dps, regardless of how quickly and correctly you press your buttons. You have to at least have a reasonably sensible build for skill > build to hold true :)