As a fellow engineer, I totally agree with your perspective and went through those probabilities as well and decided to not carry a round in the chamber. In my opinion, it doesn't make sense to keep the risk of injury to yourself or others statistically higher than the chances of you actually needing to defend yourself with a firearm!
Right on ! I carry con 3. I've also examined the odds and determined that the chance of an accidental discharge is not worth it. I'm 62, been carrying for over 40 years. Have never needed to use a gun in self defense. Probably never will. If I ever accidentally shot my daughter or someone in church, I would never forgive myself. I also don't look at my gun as a tool that will rescue me from every bad situation. There's plenty of times a gun would be useless. Maybe it's a tad slower, but it's a calculated risk that I'm willing to take.
I have been carrying a handgun for years. I used to carry condition one all the time, but now I am in #3 the majority of the time because of the great information shared in this video. In fact the only time I carry in condition one now is when I work security at my church. Again I play the odds.
Ever hear of muscle memory? If you carry your weapon in condition 3 all the time except for church security you can bet that when at church if something happens you will rack a round in even though you have one in the tube. This is a very poor practice, you should do one or another.
I dry fire with both. Church carry is 1911 Commander in appendix cocked & locked, EDC is P365XL IWB strong side right. 2 totally different feeling & handling weapons.
@@tedwood3982 Brother Ted. Love both of your firearm choices. In fact, both are top of my list along with Kimber Stainless II and Charter Arms Pitbull (revolver).
61 yr old female here. I carry a ruger SR9C with one in the chamber, external safety on. I practice drawing from the holster and flicking off the safety once the firearm is clear from my hip and pointed in a safe direction. All factors considered I feel like it’s a safe way for me to carry. I don’t trust myself to be able to rack the slide in a self defense scenario. I don’t preach my way and I too don’t give a fuck what anyone thinks. We all need to do what works best for us. ✌️🇺🇸
I carry my firearm in both conditions. I'm going out to a movie theater. A restaurant or a place that I feel as safe I do not keep one in the chamber.I work at night and going to commercial restaurants at night when they are closed I always keep one in the chamber. We're home in a bad neighborhood in Philadelphia I'll keep one in the chamber.but the majority of the time I do not keep one in the chamber because my reasoning is this: what is the actual chance that I will have a a gunfight?Everybody on these post acts as if this is the wild west and there are going to be in a gunfight eminently. Cracks me up.I think in many situations you will have time to chamber or take a safety lock off the revolver if you practice quick enough. I can chamber my glock 43 in a split-second or less. I practice all the time. What happened to plaxico burress you could say he was untrained etc.. the fact of the matter is it can happen to anybody at any time where you can have a brain lock.and his instance he should have let the firearm hit the ground and the trigger safety would have prevented it from going off. but as the fire around came out of his pocket he panicked and went to grab it quickly with those large hands and pulled the trigger. if you did not have one in the chamber he would not have had to sit in jail. So you have to put it on a scale probability of a gunfight on one side. And the chances that you will not have a gunfight. I'll take my chances on the probability I will not have a gunfight.I would rather be safe around my family and others and do the right thing and I am a shooter for over 40 years
This is what I do too. Condition 3 most of the time, and condition 0(Glock) if I'm in a bad area or something. I'd carry anything with a manual safety on condition 1 all the time though.
You're overthinking the whole situation. Just carry a revolver. If you are not worried about getting in a shootout then you shouldn't need more than 5 or 6 rounds anyway. Carry a few extra rounds if you think that you need them.
#1. Cocked and locked #2 Cocked and unlocked with the hammer down. #3. Empty chamber and slide unlocked. Jeff Cooper was making reference to a 1911 style SAO pistol when he came up with his Condition system. He also spoke of Condition #0 which is Cocked and unlocked, but wouldn't recommend it outside of a War zone. In NYC they have come up with a condition #4. Which consists of empty chamber, unlocked, pistol locked in secure safe inside of car, with empty magizines in trunk and bullets at home in the back of the closet.
Right, here’s the point. I hate carrying in condition 3; and that’s exactly why I do it. Let me explain: If it takes, lets say, an additional second (very slow) to chamber a round. That puts me at a disadvantage. My discomfort comes from knowing that. My discomfort is also what keeps me aware of my surroundings. I know I have to make up that time somehow and I do it by being situationally aware. Paranoid even. I don’t go to places where I have a good chanceof finding trouble. If I have to, my awareness reaches even greater heights. I know I have a pistol and I know that it isn’t ready to fire, I’m as nervous as a long tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs. Don’t get me wrong; nervous not timid. I have developed, through a misspent youth, my empty hand skills. I have a moral obligation to reserve my pistol as a last resort. 90% avoidance 8% evasion 2% fighting All to make up a single second, IF, I need it.
Adam Crooks ; i Agree with you and Fin Jan That is the Same mindset I use Every-time I leave the house EDC. %100 Awareness to my Surroundings I was taught that by my CPL Instructor who is a Tactical weapons Officer on a Swat Team ; Situational Awareness will dictate what your Course of actions you will take or Not take .
Totally agree. Very logical. I am also an engineer. Maybe we just think the same. I would rather die myself than AD on another human being especially a child. I'll take my chances. That being said...if I work at a liquor store on the night shift, there will be a round in the chamber always. As you said, common sense. Thanks
Or you can always exercise good weapon security by knowing where your weapon is at all times... and you can always teach your children the four basic rules of operating a firearm whenever you think they are ready to learn...
This is a training problem. There is no such thing as an AD with modern firearms that are mechanically correct. The gun will not go off if you don't pull the trigger. If you are afraid of pulling the trigger when you don't mean to, you need to focus on training that. Also, we need to make sure that we carry in such a way that even if there was an AD, it wouldn't strike anyone else (or ourselves, ideally, although IWB can cause superficial flagging for all but the thinnest of us). Carry on an empty chamber if you want to, but there are real no safety benefits (the only "safety" benefit exists only if the owner is not competent in firearms safety), but what it does do, time and again, is get armed citizens killed or maimed when they don't have the time, space, or spare hand to charge the weapon. Even in the best trained hands, the act of chamberings adds close to second to your draw stroke. At normal splits, a second is five accurate shots, and given human reaction times and the fact that you're responding to an ambush in most defensive gun uses, you do not have a second to lose: you're already way behind the 8 ball at the time you choose to introduce the gun, you need it ready to go as fast as possible. Carrying on empty is not the way to do that. If someone can articulate a legitimate safety or tactical benefit to carrying on empty, I'd be happy to discuss it.
You guys all sound like a bunch of SJW's eating each other with your identity politics. CARRY LIKE YOU WANT and carry everyday. I'm just stoked there are so many other fellow responsible gun owners who carry. Quit making it a contest.
Carrying a firearm and how you carry it is always a compromise between safety and functionality. Carrying it in your hand with one in the chamber is fastest, but most people would not do that. Police officers in my area carry open in at least a Level 2 holster. That slows them down somewhat, but with training, it doesn’t make that much difference and the compromise for safety is worth it. Some people feel the added safety of Condition 3 is worth the half second (or less). The bottom line is you should carry how you want and train in that method.
Back in 1975 I visited my cousin in Israel who lives on a Kibbutz (a collective farm). All the people there carried their weapons, mostly 1911's, in condition 3. I was taken aback by this at the time until I saw how much they trained and how UNBELIEVABLY fast they were in drawing, cycling the slide and getting on target. Practice is the key and this gentleman is absolutely correct in his thinking in my opinion. Circumstances vary as he says, but all in all it is a very viable method of carry. Bottom line....TRAINING!
Between 2012 and 2019 there were 1422 documented negligent discharges by law enforcement officers at 258 law enforcement agencies. If someone wants to carry empty chamber I see no problem with it. What I find bizarre is the anger expressed by many gun owners toward those who choose to. Anyone who actually gets angry at someone else simply because they choose to carry with an empty chamber probably shouldn’t have access to a firearm.
another excellent point, you've made....I have a brother who always informs me NOT to carry with a loaded chamber..of course, he is NOT me, and so, I chose my own carry style,,,,,when it may be required..
I'm not angry at people who carry with an empty chamber, I just think it's pointless for them to even carry a gun if you carry on an empty chamber, as it means that gun becomes useless in any civilian self-defense encounter, and could even get you killed as a result of losing a gunfight on draw speed. In probably over 95% of civilian self-defense shooting situations, bringing out that unchambered gun will actually DECREASE your chance of going home alive. You'd usually be better off never even drawing it because of the second to a second and a half it adds to your draw to first shot. It's ill-advised, but you do you.
@@scb1851 Oh I heard what his reasoning was, but I'm saying in almost all cases, if you have an empty chamber, it's a bad idea to even draw the gun in most private citizen defense encounters. Not only is it a lot slower, the noise from racking the slide will turn a perfect counter ambush opportunity into drawing from the drop (which is a huge don't in self-defense.) I'm basing this on what I've learned from watching footage of real-world self-defense encounters and analyzing what does and doesn't work well. I've literally never seen one instance in a private citizen situation where a defender carrying with an empty chamber gained anything by drawing the gun.
Because dumb ass we don't want CCWers getting themselves hurt or killed because they are scared of their gun. No one complains about lack of safeties or having a round lined up with the pipe on revolvers. If you can't handle an auto-loader then carry a 5 or 6 shooter.
I'm sorry someone has made disparaging remarks about you for the way you carry your pistol. The way you carry is the a very important and personal decision! You are the only one who can make it. I've carried since I was 30 years old. I'm 69 now. Never had a negligent discharge, not carrying or at the range. My father taught me to never put my finger on the trigger till I was ready to fire. I still practice drawing my pistol with my trigger finger along the side of the slide of my pistol. I enjoyed your video. Your reasons are concise and made without excessive emotion. To each his own. Your statistics would mean more if you would say where you got them. I look forward to seeing more of your videos.
Ironically though, he spends a LOT of time insulting others for carrying as the pistol is designed to be carried. I would have disagreed with him had he left all that out, but at least respected his choice... for HIM. But since he had to continually insult others.... not so much.
Yes I agree. There is no right or wrong way to carry. I also carry c-3, all the time. I practice drawing and take my time. For me, consistency is more important than anything. Pick a method and stick to it.
Exactly. 1st rule treat every firearm as if it were loaded!! 2nd rule never place your finger on the trigger except to fire the weapon. I'm a machinist and his explanation is exactly like every single engineer that I've ever dealt with. Long drawn-out and talks in circles saying the same things in different ways. I would like to know where the stats come from as well. I'm not discounting his comments or reasoning I just want more information from his sources.
I'm glad to see someone who doesn't subscribe to the tacticool mindset. The way some people talk, it's like they think the average self defense scenario is being charged by a gorilla on pcp in close quarters with no warning.
Emmanuel Goldstein I’m not a veteran. I do however know how I handle adrenalin an have a great deal of experience fighting from years of martial arts training and teaching. Plus, if you can’t rack a slide you can’t effectively use a firearm. Learn to control adrenaline, it’s just a matter of practice.
How much you wanna bet this dude in the video gets into a lethal encounter and dry fires the shit out of his gun... or cycles after every shot because he has it in his mind he has to cycle the slide to operate the gun first
Dude probably doesn’t realize under stress muscle memory takes over... dude also needs to stop watching movies and tv shows where gun fights are scripted and require 90 different takes
It's not about being "tacticool' as people put it. I mean the YM would rip me apart for it as I carry 1 in the chamber appendix. I've done a few things to mitigate risk. First is I have a quality holster from Tier 1 Concealment. Second I have a DA/SA carry weapon. I will feel that hammer start coming back long before any bang sound is made. People with Glocks can get a striker control device that does the same thing. What I enjoy is civilians that have never trained, or been in, a 'combat' situation giving views, and moderate insults, to those that have and take that experience into how we carry. The real world fact is shit happens. When it does I prefer to be as ready as I can for the worst situation I can come up against. Not laying on the ground wishing I had. As we yelled in the army, at one time, there are two kinds of people, the quick and the dead.
I’m not a macho guy like who you describe in your video. I disagree with you on a few points. 1. My pea shooter is deadly. So in your Chick-fil-A scenario; if I felt like this person was going to kill someone, and I could draw my gun without being seen, you bet your ass I’d shoot that man. The other people in there are sons, daughters, mothers, fathers, and etc. If I could I’d protect them just as I’d hope some other good man would protect my family in that situation. 2. In your pursuit of self defense it’s pretty likely that if you got into an encounter, that it could become physical before you either chose to pull your fire arm or were able to. To think in that situation that you’ll be able to chamber a round is lofty thinking on your part. Here’s my humble opinion. First, it’s America, so if you want to carry condition 3, by all means, do it. However, you’re projecting inaccurate opinions for those people who trust their equipment and train to carry in condition 1. It sounds to me like you’re either not confident in yourself or your equipment. You can carry in condition 1 safely. And guess what; you don’t need to be an egotistical thug to do so. Have fun with all your data.
My sentiments exactly. Everyone makes their own choices in regards to how far outside of their personal circle they will defend. You question that one must ask themselves is "Can I live with my choice?".
He probably had a negligent discharge at some point, and he definitely lost confidence in himself, but anybody could have a negligent discharge and it becomes a factor to consider
you just as well in the condition that the one person said in Chick-fil-A can chamber that gun and a split second and do something if you had to. Everybody thinks that perfect and infallible
I understand where you coming from, but in most situations where lethal force is absolutely necessary occurs at 9ft or less. The time it takes to realize the threat and draw the threat is literally on top of you and now you are using weak side hand to "control" the aggressor while shooting from close hip position. Guess what that means, you had no time to rack the slide and now you are dead with an unloaded weapon. In CCW EDC you should be planning for worst case scenario. Now, having said that, am I calling you or anyone that carries in condition 3 a sissy? Absolutely not. Am I saying I'm a macho, ain't scared of nothing real man? Again, absolutely not. What I am saying, as a Marine, even I get a little nerves once, after function and oil check, rack that round into the chamber, decock, flip on the safety and holster. If you don't get that little butterfly flop you probably shouldn't carry because you have lost respect for the weapon you just put on your side that is ready to take a life should the worst case scenario happens today. The way I look at it, when seconds or a fraction of a second means the difference between life or death and the adrenaline in pumping, the less steps that need to be taken means you will be that much quicker when it matters. No matter the case/condition, practice makes muscle memory and only one way will always be faster and that gun should never leave the holster unless the trigger will be pulled. Which is why I only carry single/double action with decock and "thumb safety". th-cam.com/video/4h7hgo02P-4/w-d-xo.html Like I said, I understand your reasoning, but it could be deadly. Keep your sights straight and stay frosty. 😉 Semper Fi 🇺🇸
I hear you. My response for you comes in the form of four questions. They're rhetorical, so I'm not expecting an answer, but here they are: 1. How many times have you administratively holstered and unholstered your weapon over the course of your life to date? 2. How many times have you administratively charged and discharged a round from the chamber of your weapon over the course of your life to date? 3. How many times have you had to use your weapon against an assailant in self-defense over the course of your life to date? 4. How many times in your life have you gotten complacent and made mistakes over the course of your life to date?
Yeah ill stick to carring in condition 1 like I have been for three years I have no issues working and doing anything with a full size government model 1911 iwb cocked and locked. Idk why its an issue for people to carry a loaded fire arm.
Gryphon... you thought you were being reasonable and you are being nice but you didnt realize who you are taking to. He's got tats... but lost his balls.
And they are already in a firefight, in which they get adjusted to their adrenaline, because you don't pull out your sidearm until your rifle is unusable.
Does the Israeli military still do this? I think this is outdated info. In the past they did carry pistols in Condition 3 but only because they had dozens if not hundreds of different makes/models donated to them and Condition 3 was the only method they could come up with to teach all their people a single manual of arms. Pretty sure they don't still carry that way now that they have a single standardized set of weapons and manual of arms
I agree with you 100%. If condition 3 is good enough for Israel’s Mossad assassins, it’s good enough for me. It’s a function of training. I’m fortunate enough to be able to go to the range weekly, and also train at home with snap caps. I’m at a point where I can draw, rack the slide, and put 3 rounds on target in about 4 seconds. The only requirement is that the safety be in fire position and the hammer cocked. Zero chance of accidental fire until you draw and rack. Don’t know how this would work in an adrenaline filled situation, and I hope to never find out. I also carry in the appendix position and really don’t want a misfire down “there.”
No problem if is this is how you feel comfortable. My only thought is this. I trust carrying more with one in the chamber than worrying about fully cycling the gun under stress resulting in a malfunction. Sure, training can all but eliminate this but if things goes so wrong in my life where I have to defend myself with a firearm the last thing I need is to add steps.
I agree.. We just had a dad held up at gunpoint at a gas station. We've watched the video over and over and I personally would not want one more step either. Chambering a round in one's back yard is very different without the FEAR FACTOR...
campingjack75 According to statistics there have been well over 200 accidental handgun fatalities in America over the last 30 years... all of those had a round in the chamber. I have yet to find a single fatality that was due to a person carrying a handgun with an empty chamber. If you know of ONE, please inform us, so we can have a legitimate excuse to risk other people's lives.
@@timhallas4275 unless you can break down the exact circumstances for me I stand by what I've said. Was it a range accident? Someone breaking the flame safety rules? I don't really believe in firearm accidents. I believe in negligent discharges.
@@campingjack75 This is over 200 individual incidents. some negligent I'm sure, others simple mishaps that would not have lead to death, had their been no round in the chamber. Since you responded to me,, I will ask you... how many cases have you heard about where a person was killed (because) they didn't carry with a round in the chamber?
@@timhallas4275 well here's the thing I can't quantify how many have or have not. I can say that I've seen plenty of surveillance videos posted on this here platform where folks have defended themselves and it happened so fast I'm sure they were glad to have their gun in a ready condition. I've also seen when someone had to rack their slide and didn't have issues and where they have needed that and had issues. From robbers to self defenders. we each can't state with certainty what is or isn't safer. I don't have an issue either way. Carry with one in the chamber or don't. But there are advantages and disadvantages to both. My concern as a firearms instructor is I've witnessed way to many times a student doing something careless and their response is along the lines of "it's ok it's not really loaded". We then get to have the uncomfortable conversation of how you should never let that stop you from safe fun handling. With my students I explain the pros and cons and tell them they need to make a choice.
If you wanna see why carrying condition 1 is important binge watch "Active Self Protection" channel right here on TH-cam. Most self defence encounters are won in split seconds and massive amounts of luck. You usually barely have enough time for a fast well trained draw let alone racking your slide first. It has nothing to do with ego and if you think that then whatever, it's your life on the line and these "macho men" have better odds than you. I hope one day you'll get more confidence because condition 1 is way better and that's a strait up fact. Speed is number one in a real self defense situation, not the situations you play in your head. I don't care what you say condition 1 is absolutely faster by margins when it comes down to milliseconds, which it will. Statistically speaking you are more likely to use deadly force in a self defence situation than to even just injure yourself, and that's including negligent discharges without a holster being in the picture. Guns are estimated to stop 2.5 million crimes a year while people shoot themselves average of a little over 14,000 a year with about 500 dying from any ND. Now how many lives were saved out of those 2,500,000? Carry condition 1 people. You can stop yourself from having negligent discharges but you can't stop a criminal from wanting to hurt or kill you.
@@mattorloff3121 I'm confused on where you got my number of self defense cases? Because nowhere did I put anything about that and your math is way off anything that I put. I think you meant 40 not 400. Thats a huge difference and still wrong either way. Are you referring to estimated crimes stopped with a gun? That's not just self defense cases. Critical thinking is a thing and those statistics are available from the FBI. I'll take FBI over some guy who's bad at math. What are you advocating here? Not carrying one in the chamber or are you trying to say guns aren't good for self defense? What is your point?
Awesome. Someone who makes sense! in short: If you live a dangerous life (cop, military, gas station attendant, work in a gun store, etc.) carry C1. Otherwise, C3 is statistically safer. -- I once came close to drawing on someone, but he backed off when he saw my dash cam, so it saved the need to draw. Funny thing is, it wasn't even recording. -- These commandos that say you can't draw and rack during an adrenaline dump are up in the night. Had I needed to draw and rack, I was sufficiently aware and in control to not let the situation scare me into submission (nor did I get this "huge" adrenaline dump). Maybe these peeps need to practice stressful situations so they don't get the adrenaline dump in the first place? IDK. So much for keeping it short :)
As a firearms instructor I respect your opinion. Your gun, your carry and your decision. That said, I have just one question for you. When you drive your car do you fasten your seat belt, or drive without it planning to buckle it just before you wreck? Action is faster than reaction and if you have to draw, you're already behind your attacker. But again, you do what you feel is best for you.
In the event of a car accident do you think you’d have time to draw your loaded, no safety, handgun and shoot the other vehicle? If your hypothetical assailant hits you with the same completely unforeseen forcefulness of a car accident- what chance do you think you’d have in ANY event? I don’t care who you are- that’s a poor analogy.
If you handle firearms enough you will most probably have a negligent discharge. But the odds of getting into a gun fight where a half second on the draw is going to make any difference are practically zero. I don't see anything wrong with condition 3 carry IF you train for it. And it is definitely safer in the day to day administrative handling of a carry gun. There are also "bullet setback" issues caused by loading and unloading a semi auto firearm. This costs money, and could cause a malfunction, depending on how many times you want to risk racking the same round every time you want to reload the pistol after dry firing.
That FBI agent who dropped his gun that fired and hit somebody was doing a back flip had a chambered round. Good advice. Practice at home with snap caps or fake bullets to fast rack. Unchambered is safer.
I’m not a macho man but I did survive three deadly confrontations during my 30 year LEO career. You will NOT have time to chamber a round b/c the attack will come w/o warning and be very violent. You can do whatever you want but if you want to carry in Condition 3 get a revolver b/c you will be hurt or killed based on your reasoning. As to the Chick Fillet example I’d just be a good witness too and would not engage the suspect unless he was going to kill me or mine. Time to get a reality check my friend.
I'm very clear that LEOs should not necessarily carry Condition 3. As an LEO you obviously had a higher probability of encountering a potentially deadly situation than a regular person because that's what the job entails. In 50 years of life I have encountered exactly ZERO potentially deadly confrontations. If, when it finally comes, it is without warning and very violent, it will not matter if there's a round in the chamber or even whether or not I am armed. There will be no time to respond to such an overwhelming surprise attack. Again, it is unlikely to happen as long as I remain vigilant to stay out of such situations, and 50 years of avoidance is a testament to the fact that I am correct.
LEO is a different level of threat, no doubt. I'm just a regular working guy, who prefers to keep his pistol in his belt rather than in the safe at home.
@@roscoejenkins1476 Condition 3 is no rounds in your magazine or chamber, condition 2 is full mag no round in the chamber. Condition 1 is round in chamber & magazine full...
"high risk environment"... Like in church?? On a hiking trail? Like at a kindergarten party?? All those places are possible areas of armed conflict. There are countless instances on active self protection's yt channel where victims drew their condition 3 firearms and it just went "click" because the adrenaline made them forget to rack the slide. "i wont forget to rack"... Yeah sure... People do really dumb stuff when they're under immense amounts of stress. I carry condition 0, thus putting myself in the mindset that my gun IS ALWAYS LOADED AND DANGEROUS... Since that is the point of a firearm. The holster is the safety. Carrying with an empty chamber is like driving without a seatbelt on and thinking you'll have time to put it on before the accident happens
I don't live in USA so no carrying unless your police or armed guard, but if I could I would carry in the way that lessened chance of shooting my junk off. I can't see racking taking "too much time"
Great video.!😃 I’m ex military.! and yes I do carry condition 3. Train in bedroom front of the mirror, couple a minutes everyday. Trust me you’ll be very fast😃✌️
You gotta do what you gotta do. I carry with a round in the chamber. My feeling is when the Adrenalin is flowing I don't want to be fumbling around trying to load my weapon. I carry every day every where and I practice drawing, firing, engaging multiple targets, moving to cover (avoiding a fight if I can) Also shooting groups for accuracy. That last is not practical in self defense, but useful training. I hope to never have to use it, but if I do I hope to emerge alive from the conflict. That is not a guarantee. I didn't catch all of your 18 minute rant. You do it your way, Ill do it mine.
I am 64 years old and have carried a weapon since I was a child. My grandfather and the service taught me to carry a weapon in condition 3. You don't want to trip and fall and shoot the man in front of you. You don't want to shoot youself pulling a gun from a hoslter. If you need to put a round in the chamber you should be in conditon 0 ready to fire the weapon. Condition 1 is when you do not need to shoot anymore. IMO gun control is more important than quick draw.
My argument against condition 3 has been the following - A condition exists where the bad has his gun drawn and is threatening someone other than you (family member, store clerk, etc.) You draw and proceed to rack the slide. Due to the noise, the bad guy's attention is drawn to YOU! His drawn weapon will automatically rotate in your direction. Whether you intended to fire or not, at that point with a weapon now pointed at you, you will have no other choice but to fire. So, originally the bad guy may have taken what he wanted and fled, but because of the racking noise you made it turn into a gun fight. The noise of the racking could have been replaced by a command "stop" "freeze" or something along those lines (like James Yeager's drawing technique) even in condition 2 - at least issuing a command instead of instigating a gun fight gives you a legal leg to explain why you took action.
Thanks, Roscoe! I'm going to get my CCW permit here in Oregon next week and I've been doing a lot of thinking along these lines. You helped me think it through. Your rational information about balancing the chances has really helped. I want to be 99 percent sure I never have an ND. I'm going to start carrying in Condition 3 as well and only go up to #1 if I find myself in a sketchy situation. And situational awareness will hopefully help me avoid those to begin with.
I'm an engineer too and its amazing how many gun owners don't understand the concept of personal risk assessment, and human performance factors. There is also the concept of the "design basis threat", and for us non law enforcement officers, that is different for each of us based on our situation and perception of risk. I've decided a while back, my "DBT" is not one where I'm going to quick draw. No interest in that. However, I'm not going to be cornered in a back room defenseless with a guy coming down the hall with an AR. Good video.
Been carrying at 3 o'clock position for about a month. I carry hot 24hrs a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year. Everybodys different. Best not to judge others.
Thank for the rational discussion. I’m also an engineer, I started out with my SAO carying hammer cocked empty chamber safety on. I graduated to condition 1 after 2 months and watched Lenny Magill from Glock Store channel and he recommends condition 3. After your video I’m fully convinced.
You should carry condition 5, magazine unloaded and out of gun, box of ammo in your fanny pack, trigger lock on the gun, that way, after you're dead, at least the criminal doesn't have a gun that's ready to use
@@Sm00th-0p3rAt0r its not about whether or not the guy will ever have to jhonwayne someone in a quickdraw scenario or not. if they guy is scared of a loaded chamber, he clearly doesnt take training seriously. he is of the most ignorant when it comes to the civilians who are walking around with a gun. if he ever has to dive on the ground to not die and return fire, whoever is around will be downrange of a man who is laying on the ground shooting from this position for the first time in his life. plus, he isnt even a good shot when he is standing because he doesnt shoot but once a year. thats what i hear when someone carries on an empty chamber.
@@Sm00th-0p3rAt0r if you follow the four rules of operating a firearm you are guaranteed to never accidentally shoot yourself or nobody else. And those rules are as basic as keeping your finger off the trigger until you're ready to fire, not pointing your weapon at anything you are not willing to destroy, treating your weapon as if it is loaded until proven otherwise , and knowing what is behind your target before you shoot at it.
@@Sm00th-0p3rAt0r sorry for the notifications but simple way to not shoot yourself while drawing your weapon On target on trigger Off target off triger That falls in line with 1 of the 4 rules of firearms safety.
The data clearly supports condition 3. There is almost no data of a person unable to defend themselves because of condition 3 versus the data of people accidentally egligently shooting themselves in condition 1. Agreed....run/hide/fight (Nice Richard Pryor Reference!)
Emmanuel Goldstein his argument is simply that the risk of being in a violent situation and having s mis rack is much much smaller than the chance of an ad with condition one over the lifetime of the weapon. It’s fundamentally not possible to mitigate for all risks associated with carrying, its a question of which risks you choose to mitigate for based on the odds of them happening. He also recognises those risks are different for people in different situations. E.g. the chances of a police officer having to draw their weapon in a first responder situation are much much higher than most of the public in a self defence situation. For you clearly the perceived risks of not being able to discharge your weapon in a conflict situation is what worries you the most. He is just pointing out that that situation is unlikely enough that for most people it probably shouldn’t be the primary concern, and gun safety should trump this for most people.
If you follow all four rules of firearm safety you're guaranteed to never accidentally shoot anybody including yourself. Because if you keep your finger off of the trigger at all times until you are ready to fire, don't point your weapon at anything you are not willing to destroy, treat your weapon as if it's loaded until proven otherwise, and know what's behind your target before you shoot at it , you are guaranteed to never accidentally shoot yourself or others.
infantry veteran: i side with you my friend. The safety of innocent family members or bystanders is greater and simply out weighs readiness. There are situations when I would go chambered but you are not only trusting yourself you also have to trust the trust the gun and neather are perfect. Too much room for error
Then those are some really special people... There are four rules to operating a firearm safely and efficiently... you should already know them as well as the people who had negligent discharges considering you had advanced infantry training as well as range time during boot camp... if you go through all of that training and still manage to either shoot yourself or shoot the clearing barrel then you are really special and you deserve a coloring book. Because it is beyond common sense to know to keep your finger off of the trigger until you're ready to fire your weapon, treat your weapon as if it's loaded at all times until proven otherwise, not pointing your weapon at anything you are not willing to destroy, and knowing what is behind your target before you shoot at it. If you need further help with these rules, then please hand your weapon over to the RSO and go sit in the corner and color a coloring book.
In other words if you are combat arms, and you have a negligent discharge, or even non combat arms and you still have a negligent discharge, you should be smoked until your arms fall off and then some. Because that means you went through basic training, training for your MOS if you are combat arms, pre-deployment training if you're not combat arms, further training while on deployment, and still had a negligent discharge?!
If a person is concerned that someone is going to single them out and come pin them down, they should possibly evaluate how peacefully they live. If I carry concealed, I will carry condition 3 because the risk of negligent discharge is much higher than the risk of engaging a threat in my life. If I was an officer, a convenience store cashier, or someone who attracted attention, I would of course carry condition 1. But I do not look at all like a dangerous person and I mostly keep to myself. I observe alot, don't probe people, and try to have a long fuse. I will always back down and away if someone seems threatening. I don't have anything to prove to anyone. If you speak softly and carry a big stick, the risk of being singled out is much less. It's not "0", but it is much much less. I find it interesting that I'm an engineering student and went through a very similar thought process for the risk/safety analysis... Highest risks get the highest priorities. A gun is not for anyone who has something to prove.
There is no doubt that carrying with a round chambered increases the risk of accidental discharge. I won't even debate that point. Everyone who carries needs to ask themselves if they are more likely to have an accidental discharge or find themselves in a Matt Dillon fast-draw situation. I live in a safe area, but if I lived in Chicago the answer for me would be different.
the truth of the matter is that if someone in a high stress situation can't reliably rack a round into the chamber while raising their gun to the firing position just as quickly as just raising their gun, then they aren't trained well enough to be carrying around a loaded firearm.
I came across this video looking for a video to send to my buddy who has just started Conceal Carrying. This is your opinion and I respect it. The best way to not have issues is to have proper training and treat your weapon as if it was loaded even if you don't have a round o magazine in the weapon. To say that you will have a moment of negligence with your weapon. It is your opinion. I am just glad that you consider to carry period. I'm a Marine so it is second nature to me to carry with a round in the chamber. As you said training is the key.
My IDPA buddies get pissed when I do Israeli carry. But that's the way I carry, and that's the way I train. If they think condition one is so safe, why do they insist nobody handle a loaded gun behind the firing line?
Fin Jan - carrying condition one is perfectly safe with a quality firearm. Handling a condition one firearm behind people is very different than carrying a condition one pistol in a decent holster behind people.
I agree I keep my firearm in condition 3 as you say for the most part, it's no reason to carry 1 in the head at all times unless you know there is danger, and if it is you probably shouldn't be there. It's to eaches own though. I don't trust pulling a loaded gun from a holster or pants in the heat of the moment. Too much at risk, just train and be prepared for anything.
You can carry in condition 3 it's your choice, I carry hot or I don't carry at all. What's the Sense of having it if it's not hot and ready, know your weapon know your gear train often ENOUGH SAID.
Thank goodness. Someone speaking sensibly. I agree completely. In no case I have personally witnessed or experienced has there not been time to chamber a round. All this talk of "train with your weapon, be loaded or don't carry" is macho BS. If you are proficient with your weapon pulling that slide should not be a problem in 99.9% of cases. Of course the possibility exists that you may encounter that 0.01% chance but come on .... be real. I guarantee there are more cases of ND's than that slight chance of needing to have 1 in the chamber. And as you say - in certain cases and situations you will carry ready. Because of your sensible words I subscribed.
Joe Mamma , the concern that in a pressure situation you rack the slide and fail to load a round into the chamber is a valid concern and one that the video recognises and addresses. His argument is that the odds of being in a situation where you have to draw your weapon at all are very small for most people as long as you try to avoid overtly dangerous situations to be begin with. Then once your in a situation the chances of having to fire the weapon are small still. So the possibility of being in an armed conflict situation, having to shoot but not being able to because of either unavailability of non dominant hand or Mis rack with the slide is so low that it is an entirely reasonable risk to take . On the flip side over the lifetime if a gun, the risks with negligent or accidental discharge associated with carrying with a round in the chamber are non trivial. Despite trigger safeties and drop safeties and safety associated with king double action trigger pull etc etc , over many years and a very large number of holstering upholstering loading unloading cocking decocking etc at some point he chance of an ad is significant, His argument is simply that it is more important the mitigate for the non trivial risk of an accidental discharge than it is the highly unlikely possibility of the situation wheee you need to fire but can’t for the reasons you mention. His argument is essentially the same argument the Israeli military itself uses to justify this practice.
This is one of the best videos that really break down odds. No question odds are EXTREMELY low that the 1/2 second it takes will not become a factor compared to the number of negligent or accidental discharges. The whole topic is based on risk to reward. I’m with you though. I’m just grateful to have a tool to defend my life. So to me safely is the upmost importance.
Gunfights are decided by tenths of a second, especially when you have an initiative deficit, which a self-defender will logically have, because of NOT being the attacker, as being the initial attacker is illegal.
For the record, I carry my striker fired sig 365xl in con 3. My S&W Bodyguard in con 0. The Bodyguard is DAO and has a rather long and fairly stiff trigger pull (takes practice to perfect it) but that adds a layer of safety that I dont have with my sig or colt with 4 and 3# triggers respectively
I've changed my thinking. Since I was a boy, shotguns and rifles were carried with no round in the chamber. I applied that rule to handguns. I now think a non-LEO should have a double action/ single Action, *drop-safe*, semiautomatic with an exposed hammer, and a safety switch plus decocker. Carry with one in the chamber, hammer down, and safety engaged. Most models will lack that option. Use a holster that covers the trigger guard, and retains the gun very solidly. Probably use a holster that requires using thumb to press a release button to unholster the gun. Holster and unholster with thumb pushing the back of the hammer to prevent its movement. Draw, then trip the safety off just before using the double action to fire the first round. I can more safely manipulate the safety and hammer, than I can hurriedly rack the slide. Requiring that I both switch the safety and move the hammer minimizes the chance of my boneheadedly discharging the gun. Not many models of handguns have: an exposed hammer, a decocker, and option to engage safety while the hammer is down.
I understand his reasoning for condition 3 but that means he thinks he will never need to fire so why then does carry? The most important rule. The gun is always loaded. If you carry thinking your gun is not chamber loaded you are you are risking you are 100% safe? Always loaded is 100% certain.
The people say that he carries in condition 3 because he does not expect to be in a gun battle. Why does he carry the question is. Because mostly even if he is in an encounter he will have time to rack the gun. he can carry the gun with confidence that he will not blow his nuts or shoot somebody accidentally by accidental discharge. Perhaps the trigger can malfunction did you ever think of that.perhaps he drops the gun out of his holster and by some freak accident gets caught on a tree limb that's on the ground. The trigger gets pulled the safety that is. Disaster strikes. Things like that can happen.how many times have you thrown a nickel I said I'm going to get it on a quarter-inch Little barrel ten feet away. But you know what I did that one time. Do you know what the odds of that twice?? Probably never. Accidents have a tendency to happen when they should not happen
@@robertlulek1634 if the firearm is going off by itself causing the trigger to pull itself that weapon is either the most unique mechanical flaw that I have saw in any firearm....Or just possessed...Because most triggers even single action only 1911's are five pounds...And most striker fire triggers have a mechanical device implemented where if something is not pressing on the trigger entirely then it won't pull the trigger back all the way....
@@JohnSmith09123 the problem is all it takes is a mistake and people although they think they can be perfect are not perfect beings. Accidents do happen and will happen.Just sent the video of a cop who was very experienced gun handler shot his finger off. No matter what you say you can have an impulsive reaction even like plaxico burress did in New York. The gun fell out of his pants pocket and his instinct was to grab for the gun.are you saying that if you by accident pull your gun and drop it or if it slips out of your holster in some way you might not instinctually go to grab for the gun? Or let's say you are in a struggle before you are able to draw your gun and the other person is stronger than you and overpowers you and shoots you with your own gun. It is a possibility and now it goes both ways.tell me I am slow at chambering my gun as I pull it out here is a video of me pulling my gun out and chambering at the same time. I will tell you I am not against carrying around in the chamber I often do.but I will only carry around in the chamber when I know I'm in a very seating neighborhood or in a situation that might be dangerous let's say inner City New York or Philadelphia which I carry both permits for.if I go to the movies let's say or I go out to a restaurant I do not carry one in the chamber. I'm fast enough to pull my gun and I'm a marksman I practice all the time. Most perps are terrible shots and I have that advantage over them. If a perp has their gun out anyway you have to wait for the opportunity to draw your weapon.so the point is pointless really if you can chamber that weapon in a split second it makes no difference and you are far more safe. The chance that I will ever be in a gun battle is pretty low very low almost nonexistent. I'm 59 years old and I have yet to be in a gun battle. People act as if every day this is San Pablo Brazil. photos.app.goo.gl/sKcKBCAgPAX7KWXB6
@@robertlulek1634 *a mistake or accident is leaving your headlights on....Causing your firearm to go off when you did not intend it to is pure unadultrated negligence...In order to achieve that with any firearm you literally have to disregard a combination of the 4 firearms safety rules for it to happen. For example not clearing the weapon properly, and squeezing the trigger when you are not ready to fire. Or pointing it at something you are not willing to destroy on top of not treating it as if it were loaded and then putting your finger on the trigger*
We all have different comfort levels with firearms. I wouldn't carry a striker in condition 1 and I certainly do not carry appendix. But I am comfortable carrying condition one with DA/SA with hammer down and a heavy first pull. I carry around 3-4 o'clock position. Appreciate your video and keep carrying and training.
@@richardnartia4054 Richard, this is pretty impressive. Reminds me of John Wick (Keanu) Reeves who is older than me. It gives me hope. LOL! 😂 th-cam.com/video/swveA-_1dus/w-d-xo.html
@@richardnartia4054 FYI: The H&K USP 45 Variant 1 is a nice “compact” pistol with a decocker and safety. I believe it’s the one used in the Michael Mann movie Collateral with Tom Cruise, as the “Silver Fox” hit man.
You carry the way you want to.For all those conditioned 1 people, you carry the way you want to.Just know.....you are responsible for every round that comes out of your gun,intended or not,and with that, comes accountability.all in all,I'd rather have a gun unchambered,than not have one at all.
Condition 1 is the way the 1911 was DESIGNED to be carried. Oh... you should let the bad guy shoot 3 or 4 more people in the time it takes to rack your slide and figure out how to acquire target while bullets from the bad guy's sawed-off AK47 are flying. Good strategy.
What? You mean you think you can outgun someone with a rifle? And you would not run and hide leaving everyone else to be shot by the bad guy?????? /sarcasm
What a selfish little coward... he's actually admitting he'd run and hide during an active shooter situation! Wtf is that?? Ummm... HELLO! YOU HAVE A GUN, man up and stop the threat! What a sad admission by this chump.
@@petergriffin383 let's see mr. Peter Griffin if you are faced ever in that situation how brave you would be.???!!! Perhaps he might have a civil suit against you as well you have to use your head.if you know for a certainty life will be lost and you have the opportunity no doubt been a split-second if you are in a crowded situation I am sure you can chamber that gun quick enough I know that I can.I've been shooting for 40 years never had an accidental discharge and I am immarksman. Many bugs that come in to shoot do not know how to shoot and are terrible shots did you ever consider that?? So I make up a split-second loss of time with better shooting ability
@@robertlulek1634 If I'm ever caught up in an active shooter situation you can bet your ass I'm going to try stopping the threat. That's one of the reasons why I carry! If everyone decided to carry and train with their pistol, mass shootings would end very quickly... mass shooters are cowards, and they depend on people being unarmed. It takes a good guy with a gun to stop a bad guy with a gun, it's that simple.
After reading all these comments, I need to pipe up and say... do what you want! I am a complete convert to carrying Condition 1. When I first bought my Shield 9, I NEVER would carry with a round in the chamber; too scary! I had a crappy IWB nylon holster, no proper training, and did not practice. Once I bought a great Kydex (Vedder) holster, received 20+ of classroom and range training, and then practiced my patootie off... I now can't imagine not carrying Condition 1. I have the confidence in myself, in my weapon, and in my training that I will not have a negligent discharge. Yes, accidents happen... that's why I keep that safety on, baby!
Condition three makes most sense for striker fired guns that lack an external safety. Many striker fired guns lack a safety and several of these weapons systems have discharged due to drops, operator error or for reasons that are as of yet not proven. My SIG P320 lacks an external safety and so do Glocks. The common way to reduce or eliminate the possibility of an unintended discharge is to not have a loaded chamber and also not have a charged weapon. The reasons in this video presented are valid
I've got a buddy that claims he carries in condition 3 because he doesn't want the firing pin spring to fail and the PIN to jolt forward and fire around unintentional. When he told me this quietly in my head I realized he doesn't know much about firearms and the mechanisms there in. A spring failure does not provide the firing pin enough forward momentum and pressure to ignite the primer if there was a failure and the pen fell forward. The pin is pulled back and released under pressure when the trigger is pulled...
Great talk. I'm also one of those engineers who spent my day job arguing if we were more or less than 10^-6 chance of a fatal accident. That didn't bother me, but I didn't like the discussions when the target was 10^-5. I truly understand your point. I also lived from 2003-2005 in a former conflict zone where getting mugged or getting guns shoved in your face at a checkpoint was an unfortunate common occurrence. Never once did I think I could have resolved any of those situations with another gun. It took wits and a sound knowledge of the culture to talk your way out of it. Though that experience is different than what you would get as an LEO where your interaction is far more adversarial as the bad guy is fighting for his freedom to continue being a bad guy. I carry the Sig 938 in condition 1, but it is a rare gun that I would. Here is the reason: 1. It is drop safe when the safety is engaged. 2. The safety is very positive and can be taken off surely from a firing grip. 3. All admin tasks including full take down can be performed without disengaging the safety or dropping the hammer. 4. There are 4 physical barriers between the hammer and the primer when carried condition 1: The safety holds the hammer, if the safety fails, the hammer lands on the sear. It the hammer slips off the sear it goes to the half cock notch where it can't drop further without resetting the hammer, if all that fails, I still have a firing pin block. So, like your condition 3, I am two steps from firing or from an ND at anytime. (Disengage safety and pull trigger as opposed to rack and pull) I prefer this particular condition 1 over condition 3 as I've had many, many failures to into battery when chambering that first round. I don't trust that in a fight. I want to dump a mag before rolling that dice. Great video, great that you voiced the perspective so concisely. I've always wanted to get my hands on actual data, but you are right, take the unknown small number risk squared over an unknown small number risk multiplied by a known large number.
It's a good thing we have options because just as uncomfortable as you might be carrying in condition 1 is just as uncomfortable as I would feel carrying this way. I feel it's like if you were in a car with your friend not wearing your seatbelt and he is doing 95 mph, you have some inclination that you should put your seatbelt on just in case he has an accident but there is always that other scenario where the same friend is driving the limit and you are not wearing your seatbelt and someone blows the light and creams you guys. You had no inclination that an accident was going to happen and therefore had no time to hurry up and put your seatbelt on even though it might have only taken a second to do so. I personally don't care how anyone else carries THEIR firearm. That's the beauty of it, you carry the way you feel comfortable. I am just glad we have options and I am positive that everyday that I can legally carry my firearm, it will be ready to go barring any malfunctions by unholstering and pulling the trigger.
While I agree with your point about being glad we have options, I think you've misapplied the seatbelt analogy here. We wear seatbelts as an added level of protection when driving a car because we know that accidents happen, just like some of us carry without a round in the chamber because we know that accidents happen. Carrying with a round in the chamber is like driving without a seatbelt, because you're afraid that some day the unlikely event is going to occur where you drive off a bridge into a body of water and the car is going to sink before you can get your seatbelt off and get away. This could certainly happen, but it is very unlikely. Especially if you are careful when driving over bridges, around bodies of water, and just very careful in general. But yes, you have the option to wear or not wear your seatbelt as you choose, and you have the option carry with a round in or out. Just be informed of the potential consequences of your actions and don't allow fear to drive your decisions into irrationality.
Roscoe Jenkins my seatbelt analogy was just to make a point that you would not try to throw your seatbelt on when you see an accident coming simply because you practiced it a thousand times over and it only takes a second. You may not always see a threat coming and even if you did, you don't address the fact that you might need to pull your firearm under concealment. By carrying in this condition, you're adding extra steps to getting your self ready to protect your life which might end up getting detected by your aggressor. I can agree that there are a lot of what if this and what if that but I feel like in a life or death situation, you may only have one chance and I'm not comfortable with adding additional steps to getting my firearm ready to go.
"you may only have one chance and I'm not comfortable..." Exactly. You're letting your fear irrationally dictate your actions. I think my video adequately addresses the probability of obscure and unlikely occurrences happening and the extra fraction of a second that is required to charge your weapon making the difference between life and death vs. the much more significant probability of you having a negligent discharge at some point. The former is extremely unlikely and the later is probable. In fact, I think my video beats the horse to death. I don't know how else to explain it to someone like you if you've watched the video and you still do not get it. Do what you like. Hopefully you won't shoot your pecker off.
I'll make this my final thought, so if you decide that you have your own final thought and I don't reply, it's nothing personal. Just agreeing to disagree is all! This was my very point when I said, that is the beauty of having options. You are letting your "fear" of shooting yourself and the data that proves its more likely that you'll shoot yourself by having a round chambered dictate your actions. I personally am not fearful that I will shoot myself. But my question would be, how much of that data would ultimately matter if God forbid you were attacked and because of the time it took for you to chamber a round, you found your demise? It really wouldn't matter whether its 1 percent, 2 percent, 10 percent. Would your family then put on your head stone that you went with the probability and loss the gamble? In addition, if we are going to go with probability then either one of us carrying a firearm in the first place is probably unnecessary. I am 48 and have never had my life threatened but yet we both still carry. We carry not cause the percentages are high that we'll ever have to use it but because there is even a percentage to speak of at all. Also, if you notice......I never said you were wrong for how you want to carry YOUR firearm or referred to you as a girly man because it's YOUR firearm and it really boils down to what YOU feel comfortable with. I think one of the only reasons that I even replied was because you made a point of saying how you don't care what people thought of you for carrying the way you do but you made a whole video trying to justify why the data proves this is the more rational way to carry. How would anyone even know you carry in this condition unless you bring it up or make a video about it. Where as I feel, how rational will it be if the small percentage that you say there is actually sneaks up on you. Kydex holster, keep your finger off the trigger, when I remove my firearm or put it back on, I remove the entire firearm and holster together to limit unnecessary removing of the firearm from the holster so my exposure to having an accidental discharge is probably just about the same amount as yours, during range time, Anyway, nothing wrong with a difference of opinion when neither of our decisions affects the other. Carry on, be safe and hopefully your odds will always be in your favor!
A lot of this has to do with what kind of firearm and holster is being used along with the person using the firearm. For safety sake this is a personal choice, the simplest things can change everything. Being scatter braided vs sharp as a tack, having someone with current training to help you vs no help at all, living alone vs several people and kids, having a range at your home vs never practicing and so on. If you have thought things through and are comfortable with your choice stick with it, it's safer for everyone in the long run.
@@austinlance7206 if you need to use one arm to draw your weapon because someone with a knife your using one arm to defend while you draw click and fire . 1911 has three safeties and is made to carry cocked and locked . Always a probability. Try getting your weapon into battery with one hand
I look at it like the old seatbelt argument. They will say carrying any gun unchambered is like hoping you can click your seatbelt in before impact when you get it a car wreck. I would say carrying a chambered gun is like not wearing a seatbelt because you might get in the kind of wreck that the seatbelt traps you and you have to cut it t escape. I carry daily and several times a day (when I go into or come out of work, or go to my child's school) I need to remove and replace the weapon on my person. The chances that something goes wrong with one of those events is infinitely higher than the circumstance that I will need to use my gun to protect my life. But the chance of something going wrong is zero without a round in the chamber and the chances that I will be able to protect my life without a round in the chamber is only very slightly reduced. My gun is like my seatbelt, I don't plan on using it today, but if I need to it is there waiting, but mostly all it does is nothing.
Finally. Great share. It really depends on the threat level. If I had a double action compact, I would certainly have no problem with a chambered weapon. Some people carry outside, almost inviting someone to take it from them. Ain't no fun when the rabbit has the gun. Plenty of scenarios to qualify.
How many people are in jail because of an incident where they lost their mind temporarily let's say road rage.they draw that weapon and one is already in the chamber and by accident they press the trigger doesn't take much when you're hyped up. Not a rack that gun that split-second you thinking what am I doing?? Maybe perhaps it will save you from jail time. all of you say that you would never pulled a gun from road rage never say never when you're very angry it can happen to anybody
I totally agree man. Its refreshing to find someone who doesnt follow the crowd. Theres an inherent risk either way. I dont live in a high crime area and almost all of the old people at my church have never experienced a life and death situation like that. It's more likely that I will accidentally shoot one of my children that are around me almost 24/7 having to consistently take my gun in and out of the holster than it is likely that I will run into a bad guy and happen to only have a fraction of a second before I meet death. Even if it is more likely than I am to face that bad guy than accidentally shoot one of my children, or anybody, I would probably not change. If I shot one of my children, I might as well be shot by a bad guy because I wouldn't even want to live anymore. People talk all the time about training and gun safety, and what is like the first rule everybody states? "Dont point the gun at anyone." I guarantee that if you believe in carrying a live round, you wouldn't even be comfortable with a trustful, highly-trained military guy pointing a gun at you with an empty chamber. Why? Because we all know accidents can happen. Hence the reason for carrying the chamber empty.
A 1911 has 3 safeties why the hell would you carry it with out a round chambered? Seriously? You have a half-cock, a grip safety, and a slide lock. So you could carry with a round chambered and hammer on half-cock or cocked and locked. Both easy and reliable. Thumb back the hammer while drawing or flip down the slide lock. I've carried mine both ways.
Why would you say that a 1911 is a terrible self-defense gun? It's a great gun for conceal carry. Holds more rounds than any revolver, faster to reload too. Has a slimmer profile than any double stack automatic. Plus, any spare mags you might carry are slimmer, more easily concealed and more comfortable to carry.
It also takes two hands to chamber a round. If you are knocked down or are trying to move a family member out of danger good luck chambering a round. What happens when you fail to fully rack the slide and jam the gun. Using your logic of odds of defending yourself why even carry? One time in 50 years, youcould have been dead. The probabilty theory is silly. If you are on the ground with somebody on top of you good racking the slide. If you keep your finger and foreign objects off the trigger the gun will not fire except for mechanical failure, whats the odds of that. Whats the odds of negligent/accidental discharge when you rack the slide in an emergency? If someone is that afraid of a gun maybe they should not carry. Good luck one handed racking in an emergency.
Most people are incapable of learning anything other than the yank and crank method and their narrow view and lack of experience is evident in many of the negative responses to this video. In my opinion carry however you want just practice, practice ,practice.
I prefer one in the chamber with safety on than empty chamber and no safety. Safety I can disable with one hand, but chambering is really hard one handed, especially under stress.
I carry my firearm hot and ready tbh. I’m new to being a firearm owner but I always thought that’s how you carry cuz it’s the most logical 🤷🏻♂️ each his own though I ain’t tryna change anybody’s mind.
Az is a constitutional carry state, no permit required to carry concealed, but we also have a mandatory minimum sentence for any accidental discharge which mean you become a prohibited person. So, many weigh the benefit of Condition 1 and the potential for prison vs Condition 3 which all but guarantees no risk of an accidental discharge.
Roscoe, I agree with you for the most part. I, however, don’t carry to protect myself. So if someone comes into Chick-fil-A and starts shooting at everyone, I will not run. I will pull the gun and rack the slide and try to take him down without harming others. Saving other peoples lives is my intent, not saving my own life necessarily. I am 71 so I have no mouths to feed , so I don’t care. Who knows if I will be able to act, though, with the panicky situation.
The Israelis have been carrying this way for years. (Military, Police, civilians.) If you train that way, then there should be no issues. Depending on the situation I carry either way. I train that way, and cannot see much if any difference. Guess it all depends on the person behind the trigger.
It's just tactically disadvantageous to carry with no round in the chamber. I'm going to assume those who don't are in fact afraid of their firearm or not confident in their abilities using the firearm. Statistically negligent discharges most commonly occur with single action appendix carry. Those occurrences are because of NEGLIGENCE, not the gun. They failed multiple steps of safety, like having the safety off and finger on the trigger. Others come from thinking your gun is unloaded when its loaded, clear your firearm after you take the magazine out first, simple mess up that can cost alot. Obviously manually bringing the hammer down is another one people fail at. What do all these have in common? Negligence from the individual carrying. But if someone is still so opposed because of the stats, then carry a single double action and use the decocker like I do (I hate safetys on edc guns). But an empty chamber is better than nothing, true. I guess what gets me on this video though is the strawmaning. The main argument and general consensus against an empty chamber isn't about being effeminate, its that its again, tactically disadvantageous. There are literally 0 reasons for not caring one in the chamber. Its either because you're afraid of the gun or afraid of your ability to use the gun. You don't trust the tool and/or yourself. What other reasons are there?
To each their own, but coming from the military and training under 'combat' situations a fraction of a second can be life or death. For risk mitigation I carry a DA/SA, but always round in the chamber appendix. If people have a Glock a striker control device as well. Again each their own.
The chances of an accidental discharge or someone getting ahold of the handgun are MUCH greater than having to shoot someone while I’m minding my own business. The only time condition one is warranted is if I’m going to a rough area or bad situation. And you’re right. I’m not going to shoot someone in a robbery of myself or a business unless they’re threatening to kill somebody. If they leave with money or jewelry and I don’t have to fire a shot. I win. The defensive handgun is only for a life threatening situation and 84% of the time you don’t need to shoot to gain control of the situation and prevent a violent crime. People often shoot themselves by accident when holstering in condition one. Not a zero chance of a negligent discharge in condition one. Zero chance in condition 3.
Blows my mind how so many people say there’s never any mechanical failure on a gun, but yet they talk about the idea of an accidental discharge being due to the mechanical failure of the gun. Which one is it? Are they safe or are they not? Or do people just don’t want to take responsibility for what is actually a negligent discharge?
As a fellow engineer, I totally agree with your perspective and went through those probabilities as well and decided to not carry a round in the chamber. In my opinion, it doesn't make sense to keep the risk of injury to yourself or others statistically higher than the chances of you actually needing to defend yourself with a firearm!
The average gunhead isn’t able to comprehend this
Right on ! I carry con 3. I've also examined the odds and determined that the chance of an accidental discharge is not worth it. I'm 62, been carrying for over 40 years. Have never needed to use a gun in self defense. Probably never will. If I ever accidentally shot my daughter or someone in church, I would never forgive myself. I also don't look at my gun as a tool that will rescue me from every bad situation. There's plenty of times a gun would be useless. Maybe it's a tad slower, but it's a calculated risk that I'm willing to take.
I have been carrying a handgun for years. I used to carry condition one all the time, but now I am in #3 the majority of the time because of the great information shared in this video. In fact the only time I carry in condition one now is when I work security at my church. Again I play the odds.
Ever hear of muscle memory? If you carry your weapon in condition 3 all the time except for church security you can bet that when at church if something happens you will rack a round in even though you have one in the tube. This is a very poor practice, you should do one or another.
I dry fire with both. Church carry is 1911 Commander in appendix cocked & locked, EDC is P365XL IWB strong side right. 2 totally different feeling & handling weapons.
@@tedwood3982 Brother Ted. Love both of your firearm choices. In fact, both are top of my list along with Kimber Stainless II and Charter Arms Pitbull (revolver).
61 yr old female here. I carry a ruger SR9C with one in the chamber, external safety on. I practice drawing from the holster and flicking off the safety once the firearm is clear from my hip and pointed in a safe direction. All factors considered I feel like it’s a safe way for me to carry. I don’t trust myself to be able to rack the slide in a self defense scenario. I don’t preach my way and I too don’t give a fuck what anyone thinks. We all need to do what works best for us. ✌️🇺🇸
I carry my firearm in both conditions. I'm going out to a movie theater. A restaurant or a place that I feel as safe I do not keep one in the chamber.I work at night and going to commercial restaurants at night when they are closed I always keep one in the chamber. We're home in a bad neighborhood in Philadelphia I'll keep one in the chamber.but the majority of the time I do not keep one in the chamber because my reasoning is this: what is the actual chance that I will have a a gunfight?Everybody on these post acts as if this is the wild west and there are going to be in a gunfight eminently. Cracks me up.I think in many situations you will have time to chamber or take a safety lock off the revolver if you practice quick enough. I can chamber my glock 43 in a split-second or less. I practice all the time. What happened to plaxico burress you could say he was untrained etc.. the fact of the matter is it can happen to anybody at any time where you can have a brain lock.and his instance he should have let the firearm hit the ground and the trigger safety would have prevented it from going off. but as the fire around came out of his pocket he panicked and went to grab it quickly with those large hands and pulled the trigger. if you did not have one in the chamber he would not have had to sit in jail. So you have to put it on a scale probability of a gunfight on one side. And the chances that you will not have a gunfight. I'll take my chances on the probability I will not have a gunfight.I would rather be safe around my family and others and do the right thing and I am a shooter for over 40 years
This is what I do too. Condition 3 most of the time, and condition 0(Glock) if I'm in a bad area or something. I'd carry anything with a manual safety on condition 1 all the time though.
Only thing with 2 conditions is that in an emergency you have to react depending on the condition that your gun is. But maybe you can ....
That was quite the novel you wrote.
@@JP-148 I would probably forget which condition I had the gun in, if a situation started.
You're overthinking the whole situation. Just carry a revolver. If you are not worried about getting in a shootout then you shouldn't need more than 5 or 6 rounds anyway. Carry a few extra rounds if you think that you need them.
#1. Cocked and locked #2 Cocked and unlocked with the hammer down. #3. Empty chamber and slide unlocked. Jeff Cooper was making reference to a 1911 style SAO pistol when he came up with his Condition system. He also spoke of Condition #0 which is Cocked and unlocked, but wouldn't recommend it outside of a War zone. In NYC they have come up with a condition #4. Which consists of empty chamber, unlocked, pistol locked in secure safe inside of car, with empty magizines in trunk and bullets at home in the back of the closet.
Right, here’s the point.
I hate carrying in condition 3; and that’s exactly why I do it.
Let me explain:
If it takes, lets say, an additional second (very slow) to chamber a round. That puts me at a disadvantage. My discomfort comes from knowing that. My discomfort is also what keeps me aware of my surroundings. I know I have to make up that time somehow and I do it by being situationally aware.
Paranoid even. I don’t go to places where I have a good chanceof finding trouble. If I have to, my awareness reaches even greater heights. I know I have a pistol and I know that it isn’t ready to fire, I’m as nervous as a long tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs.
Don’t get me wrong; nervous not timid.
I have developed, through a misspent youth, my empty hand skills. I have a moral obligation to reserve my pistol as a last resort.
90% avoidance
8% evasion
2% fighting
All to make up a single second, IF, I need it.
Good mindset.
Well said.
Adam Crooks ; i Agree with you and Fin Jan That is the Same mindset I use Every-time I leave the house EDC. %100 Awareness to my Surroundings I was taught that by my CPL Instructor who is a Tactical weapons Officer on a Swat Team ; Situational Awareness will dictate what your Course of actions you will take or Not take .
You just turned the argument on it's head and inside out---four years ago but still relevant. Brilliantly said.
Totally agree. Very logical. I am also an engineer. Maybe we just think the same. I would rather die myself than AD on another human being especially a child. I'll take my chances. That being said...if I work at a liquor store on the night shift, there will be a round in the chamber always. As you said, common sense. Thanks
Or you can always exercise good weapon security by knowing where your weapon is at all times... and you can always teach your children the four basic rules of operating a firearm whenever you think they are ready to learn...
This is a training problem.
There is no such thing as an AD with modern firearms that are mechanically correct. The gun will not go off if you don't pull the trigger. If you are afraid of pulling the trigger when you don't mean to, you need to focus on training that.
Also, we need to make sure that we carry in such a way that even if there was an AD, it wouldn't strike anyone else (or ourselves, ideally, although IWB can cause superficial flagging for all but the thinnest of us).
Carry on an empty chamber if you want to, but there are real no safety benefits (the only "safety" benefit exists only if the owner is not competent in firearms safety), but what it does do, time and again, is get armed citizens killed or maimed when they don't have the time, space, or spare hand to charge the weapon. Even in the best trained hands, the act of chamberings adds close to second to your draw stroke. At normal splits, a second is five accurate shots, and given human reaction times and the fact that you're responding to an ambush in most defensive gun uses, you do not have a second to lose: you're already way behind the 8 ball at the time you choose to introduce the gun, you need it ready to go as fast as possible. Carrying on empty is not the way to do that.
If someone can articulate a legitimate safety or tactical benefit to carrying on empty, I'd be happy to discuss it.
100%
Better to die quickly from a slow draw, than to die slowly from guilt.
@@fin_jan how about just training on your draw, and then when you do have to draw down it is muscle memory, sound good?
You guys all sound like a bunch of SJW's eating each other with your identity politics. CARRY LIKE YOU WANT and carry everyday. I'm just stoked there are so many other fellow responsible gun owners who carry. Quit making it a contest.
here here!!
@Andrewtrue, it is Hear, hear!!
but I (as well as you) forgot the comma.
Carrying a firearm and how you carry it is always a compromise between safety and functionality. Carrying it in your hand with one in the chamber is fastest, but most people would not do that. Police officers in my area carry open in at least a Level 2 holster. That slows them down somewhat, but with training, it doesn’t make that much difference and the compromise for safety is worth it. Some people feel the added safety of Condition 3 is worth the half second (or less). The bottom line is you should carry how you want and train in that method.
Back in 1975 I visited my cousin in Israel who lives on a Kibbutz (a collective farm). All the people there carried their weapons, mostly 1911's, in condition 3. I was taken aback by this
at the time until I saw how much they trained and how UNBELIEVABLY fast they were in drawing, cycling the slide and getting on target. Practice is the key and this gentleman is
absolutely correct in his thinking in my opinion. Circumstances vary as he says, but all in all it is a very viable method of carry. Bottom line....TRAINING!
Does Joe or Josephine have the time or dedication to train this much?
Crazy izraelis
Between 2012 and 2019 there were 1422 documented negligent discharges by law enforcement officers at 258 law enforcement agencies. If someone wants to carry empty chamber I see no problem with it. What I find bizarre is the anger expressed by many gun owners toward those who choose to. Anyone who actually gets angry at someone else simply because they choose to carry with an empty chamber probably shouldn’t have access to a firearm.
another excellent point, you've made....I have a brother who always informs me NOT to carry with a loaded chamber..of course, he is NOT me, and so, I chose my own carry style,,,,,when it may be required..
I'm not angry at people who carry with an empty chamber, I just think it's pointless for them to even carry a gun if you carry on an empty chamber, as it means that gun becomes useless in any civilian self-defense encounter, and could even get you killed as a result of losing a gunfight on draw speed. In probably over 95% of civilian self-defense shooting situations, bringing out that unchambered gun will actually DECREASE your chance of going home alive. You'd usually be better off never even drawing it because of the second to a second and a half it adds to your draw to first shot. It's ill-advised, but you do you.
@@scb1851 Oh I heard what his reasoning was, but I'm saying in almost all cases, if you have an empty chamber, it's a bad idea to even draw the gun in most private citizen defense encounters. Not only is it a lot slower, the noise from racking the slide will turn a perfect counter ambush opportunity into drawing from the drop (which is a huge don't in self-defense.) I'm basing this on what I've learned from watching footage of real-world self-defense encounters and analyzing what does and doesn't work well. I've literally never seen one instance in a private citizen situation where a defender carrying with an empty chamber gained anything by drawing the gun.
Because dumb ass we don't want CCWers getting themselves hurt or killed because they are scared of their gun. No one complains about lack of safeties or having a round lined up with the pipe on revolvers. If you can't handle an auto-loader then carry a 5 or 6 shooter.
When its life or death, fractions of inches and seconds count.
Carry how you're comfortable.
To each his own,.... Good luck !
I'm sorry someone has made disparaging remarks about you for the way you carry your pistol. The way you carry is the a very important and personal decision! You are the only one who can make it. I've carried since I was 30 years old. I'm 69 now. Never had a negligent discharge, not carrying or at the range. My father taught me to never put my finger on the trigger till I was ready to fire. I still practice drawing my pistol with my trigger finger along the side of the slide of my pistol. I enjoyed your video. Your reasons are concise and made without excessive emotion. To each his own. Your statistics would mean more if you would say where you got them. I look forward to seeing more of your videos.
Ironically though, he spends a LOT of time insulting others for carrying as the pistol is designed to be carried. I would have disagreed with him had he left all that out, but at least respected his choice... for HIM. But since he had to continually insult others.... not so much.
Yes I agree. There is no right or wrong way to carry. I also carry c-3, all the time. I practice drawing and take my time. For me, consistency is more important than anything. Pick a method and stick to it.
Exactly. 1st rule treat every firearm as if it were loaded!! 2nd rule never place your finger on the trigger except to fire the weapon.
I'm a machinist and his explanation is exactly like every single engineer that I've ever dealt with. Long drawn-out and talks in circles saying the same things in different ways.
I would like to know where the stats come from as well. I'm not discounting his comments or reasoning I just want more information from his sources.
I'm glad to see someone who doesn't subscribe to the tacticool mindset. The way some people talk, it's like they think the average self defense scenario is being charged by a gorilla on pcp in close quarters with no warning.
Thanks for the accolades.
Emmanuel Goldstein I’m not a veteran. I do however know how I handle adrenalin an have a great deal of experience fighting from years of martial arts training and teaching.
Plus, if you can’t rack a slide you can’t effectively use a firearm. Learn to control adrenaline, it’s just a matter of practice.
How much you wanna bet this dude in the video gets into a lethal encounter and dry fires the shit out of his gun... or cycles after every shot because he has it in his mind he has to cycle the slide to operate the gun first
Dude probably doesn’t realize under stress muscle memory takes over... dude also needs to stop watching movies and tv shows where gun fights are scripted and require 90 different takes
It's not about being "tacticool' as people put it. I mean the YM would rip me apart for it as I carry 1 in the chamber appendix. I've done a few things to mitigate risk. First is I have a quality holster from Tier 1 Concealment. Second I have a DA/SA carry weapon. I will feel that hammer start coming back long before any bang sound is made. People with Glocks can get a striker control device that does the same thing. What I enjoy is civilians that have never trained, or been in, a 'combat' situation giving views, and moderate insults, to those that have and take that experience into how we carry. The real world fact is shit happens. When it does I prefer to be as ready as I can for the worst situation I can come up against. Not laying on the ground wishing I had. As we yelled in the army, at one time, there are two kinds of people, the quick and the dead.
I’m not a macho guy like who you describe in your video. I disagree with you on a few points. 1. My pea shooter is deadly. So in your Chick-fil-A scenario; if I felt like this person was going to kill someone, and I could draw my gun without being seen, you bet your ass I’d shoot that man. The other people in there are sons, daughters, mothers, fathers, and etc. If I could I’d protect them just as I’d hope some other good man would protect my family in that situation. 2. In your pursuit of self defense it’s pretty likely that if you got into an encounter, that it could become physical before you either chose to pull your fire arm or were able to. To think in that situation that you’ll be able to chamber a round is lofty thinking on your part.
Here’s my humble opinion. First, it’s America, so if you want to carry condition 3, by all means, do it. However, you’re projecting inaccurate opinions for those people who trust their equipment and train to carry in condition 1. It sounds to me like you’re either not confident in yourself or your equipment. You can carry in condition 1 safely. And guess what; you don’t need to be an egotistical thug to do so. Have fun with all your data.
Sam Adams thumbs way up my friend! 👍🏼
My sentiments exactly. Everyone makes their own choices in regards to how far outside of their personal circle they will defend. You question that one must ask themselves is "Can I live with my choice?".
here here
He probably had a negligent discharge at some point, and he definitely lost confidence in himself, but anybody could have a negligent discharge and it becomes a factor to consider
you just as well in the condition that the one person said in Chick-fil-A can chamber that gun and a split second and do something if you had to. Everybody thinks that perfect and infallible
I carry a fully loaded S&W 642 revolver. The 12 pound trigger pull works like a built in safety and insures an intentional pull everytime.
I wouldn’t hesitate carrying my Beretta M9 in condition2 for the same reason, all my other semi automatics I carry in condition 3.
Carry however you feel comfortable. As I have gotten older, I find myself plenty able to avoid trouble, just by staying home.
I understand where you coming from, but in most situations where lethal force is absolutely necessary occurs at 9ft or less. The time it takes to realize the threat and draw the threat is literally on top of you and now you are using weak side hand to "control" the aggressor while shooting from close hip position. Guess what that means, you had no time to rack the slide and now you are dead with an unloaded weapon. In CCW EDC you should be planning for worst case scenario.
Now, having said that, am I calling you or anyone that carries in condition 3 a sissy? Absolutely not. Am I saying I'm a macho, ain't scared of nothing real man? Again, absolutely not. What I am saying, as a Marine, even I get a little nerves once, after function and oil check, rack that round into the chamber, decock, flip on the safety and holster. If you don't get that little butterfly flop you probably shouldn't carry because you have lost respect for the weapon you just put on your side that is ready to take a life should the worst case scenario happens today. The way I look at it, when seconds or a fraction of a second means the difference between life or death and the adrenaline in pumping, the less steps that need to be taken means you will be that much quicker when it matters.
No matter the case/condition, practice makes muscle memory and only one way will always be faster and that gun should never leave the holster unless the trigger will be pulled. Which is why I only carry single/double action with decock and "thumb safety".
th-cam.com/video/4h7hgo02P-4/w-d-xo.html
Like I said, I understand your reasoning, but it could be deadly. Keep your sights straight and stay frosty. 😉 Semper Fi 🇺🇸
I hear you. My response for you comes in the form of four questions. They're rhetorical, so I'm not expecting an answer, but here they are:
1. How many times have you administratively holstered and unholstered your weapon over the course of your life to date?
2. How many times have you administratively charged and discharged a round from the chamber of your weapon over the course of your life to date?
3. How many times have you had to use your weapon against an assailant in self-defense over the course of your life to date?
4. How many times in your life have you gotten complacent and made mistakes over the course of your life to date?
Yeah ill stick to carring in condition 1 like I have been for three years I have no issues working and doing anything with a full size government model 1911 iwb cocked and locked. Idk why its an issue for people to carry a loaded fire arm.
Gryphon Arms USA , with a 1911, you can't decock it and engage the safety.
well said. to each his own but one should really research and think about the pros and cons of each
Gryphon... you thought you were being reasonable and you are being nice but you didnt realize who you are taking to. He's got tats... but lost his balls.
Carry in Condition Three, get a revolver. Your data is not going to be much help when/if you’re attacked.
Israeli military carry with an empty chamber. They train to chamber a round and to chamber a round quickly. If its good enough for them well....
And they travel in teams.
And they are already in a firefight, in which they get adjusted to their adrenaline, because you don't pull out your sidearm until your rifle is unusable.
Does the Israeli military still do this? I think this is outdated info. In the past they did carry pistols in Condition 3 but only because they had dozens if not hundreds of different makes/models donated to them and Condition 3 was the only method they could come up with to teach all their people a single manual of arms.
Pretty sure they don't still carry that way now that they have a single standardized set of weapons and manual of arms
That’s only because they have every single person serving so the standards have to be somewhat low. IDF and the special operators have one in the pipe
I agree with you 100%. If condition 3 is good enough for Israel’s Mossad assassins, it’s good enough for me. It’s a function of training. I’m fortunate enough to be able to go to the range weekly, and also train at home with snap caps. I’m at a point where I can draw, rack the slide, and put 3 rounds on target in about 4 seconds. The only requirement is that the safety be in fire position and the hammer cocked. Zero chance of accidental fire until you draw and rack. Don’t know how this would work in an adrenaline filled situation, and I hope to never find out. I also carry in the appendix position and really don’t want a misfire down “there.”
Take a force on force class
No problem if is this is how you feel comfortable. My only thought is this. I trust carrying more with one in the chamber than worrying about fully cycling the gun under stress resulting in a malfunction. Sure, training can all but eliminate this but if things goes so wrong in my life where I have to defend myself with a firearm the last thing I need is to add steps.
I agree.. We just had a dad held up at gunpoint at a gas station. We've watched the video over and over and I personally would not want one more step either. Chambering a round in one's back yard is very different without the FEAR FACTOR...
campingjack75 According to statistics there have been well over 200 accidental handgun fatalities in America over the last 30 years... all of those had a round in the chamber. I have yet to find a single fatality that was due to a person carrying a handgun with an empty chamber. If you know of ONE, please inform us, so we can have a legitimate excuse to risk other people's lives.
@@timhallas4275 unless you can break down the exact circumstances for me I stand by what I've said. Was it a range accident? Someone breaking the flame safety rules? I don't really believe in firearm accidents. I believe in negligent discharges.
@@campingjack75 This is over 200 individual incidents. some negligent I'm sure, others simple mishaps that would not have lead to death, had their been no round in the chamber. Since you responded to me,, I will ask you... how many cases have you heard about where a person was killed (because) they didn't carry with a round in the chamber?
@@timhallas4275 well here's the thing I can't quantify how many have or have not. I can say that I've seen plenty of surveillance videos posted on this here platform where folks have defended themselves and it happened so fast I'm sure they were glad to have their gun in a ready condition. I've also seen when someone had to rack their slide and didn't have issues and where they have needed that and had issues. From robbers to self defenders. we each can't state with certainty what is or isn't safer. I don't have an issue either way. Carry with one in the chamber or don't. But there are advantages and disadvantages to both. My concern as a firearms instructor is I've witnessed way to many times a student doing something careless and their response is along the lines of "it's ok it's not really loaded". We then get to have the uncomfortable conversation of how you should never let that stop you from safe fun handling. With my students I explain the pros and cons and tell them they need to make a choice.
If you wanna see why carrying condition 1 is important binge watch "Active Self Protection" channel right here on TH-cam. Most self defence encounters are won in split seconds and massive amounts of luck. You usually barely have enough time for a fast well trained draw let alone racking your slide first. It has nothing to do with ego and if you think that then whatever, it's your life on the line and these "macho men" have better odds than you. I hope one day you'll get more confidence because condition 1 is way better and that's a strait up fact. Speed is number one in a real self defense situation, not the situations you play in your head. I don't care what you say condition 1 is absolutely faster by margins when it comes down to milliseconds, which it will. Statistically speaking you are more likely to use deadly force in a self defence situation than to even just injure yourself, and that's including negligent discharges without a holster being in the picture. Guns are estimated to stop 2.5 million crimes a year while people shoot themselves average of a little over 14,000 a year with about 500 dying from any ND. Now how many lives were saved out of those 2,500,000? Carry condition 1 people. You can stop yourself from having negligent discharges but you can't stop a criminal from wanting to hurt or kill you.
Self Defensive Gun Cases/Year are less than 70K/year. So you're off by a factor of 400X.
@@mattorloff3121 I'm confused on where you got my number of self defense cases? Because nowhere did I put anything about that and your math is way off anything that I put. I think you meant 40 not 400. Thats a huge difference and still wrong either way. Are you referring to estimated crimes stopped with a gun? That's not just self defense cases. Critical thinking is a thing and those statistics are available from the FBI. I'll take FBI over some guy who's bad at math. What are you advocating here? Not carrying one in the chamber or are you trying to say guns aren't good for self defense? What is your point?
Awesome. Someone who makes sense! in short: If you live a dangerous life (cop, military, gas station attendant, work in a gun store, etc.) carry C1. Otherwise, C3 is statistically safer. -- I once came close to drawing on someone, but he backed off when he saw my dash cam, so it saved the need to draw. Funny thing is, it wasn't even recording. -- These commandos that say you can't draw and rack during an adrenaline dump are up in the night. Had I needed to draw and rack, I was sufficiently aware and in control to not let the situation scare me into submission (nor did I get this "huge" adrenaline dump). Maybe these peeps need to practice stressful situations so they don't get the adrenaline dump in the first place? IDK. So much for keeping it short :)
As a firearms instructor I respect your opinion. Your gun, your carry and your decision. That said, I have just one question for you. When you drive your car do you fasten your seat belt, or drive without it planning to buckle it just before you wreck?
Action is faster than reaction and if you have to draw, you're already behind your attacker.
But again, you do what you feel is best for you.
Great analogy that has no retort.
I like to drive without a seatbelt and only carry condition 0.
@@T1ddlywinks Congrats...
In the event of a car accident do you think you’d have time to draw your loaded, no safety, handgun and shoot the other vehicle? If your hypothetical assailant hits you with the same completely unforeseen forcefulness of a car accident- what chance do you think you’d have in ANY event? I don’t care who you are- that’s a poor analogy.
If you handle firearms enough you will most probably have a negligent discharge. But the odds of getting into a gun fight where a half second on the draw is going to make any difference are practically zero. I don't see anything wrong with condition 3 carry IF you train for it. And it is definitely safer in the day to day administrative handling of a carry gun. There are also "bullet setback" issues caused by loading and unloading a semi auto firearm. This costs money, and could cause a malfunction, depending on how many times you want to risk racking the same round every time you want to reload the pistol after dry firing.
That FBI agent who dropped his gun that fired and hit somebody was doing a back flip had a chambered round. Good advice. Practice at home with snap caps or fake bullets to fast rack. Unchambered is safer.
Wow an incompetent person does something stupid so that makes it unsafe .
If I worked at a pawn shop I think I would always have a round chambered but if I’m going for ice cream
I wouldn’t
I’m not a macho man but I did survive three deadly confrontations during my 30 year LEO career. You will NOT have time to chamber a round b/c the attack will come w/o warning and be very violent. You can do whatever you want but if you want to carry in Condition 3 get a revolver b/c you will be hurt or killed based on your reasoning. As to the Chick Fillet example I’d just be a good witness too and would not engage the suspect unless he was going to kill me or mine. Time to get a reality check my friend.
I'm very clear that LEOs should not necessarily carry Condition 3. As an LEO you obviously had a higher probability of encountering a potentially deadly situation than a regular person because that's what the job entails. In 50 years of life I have encountered exactly ZERO potentially deadly confrontations. If, when it finally comes, it is without warning and very violent, it will not matter if there's a round in the chamber or even whether or not I am armed. There will be no time to respond to such an overwhelming surprise attack. Again, it is unlikely to happen as long as I remain vigilant to stay out of such situations, and 50 years of avoidance is a testament to the fact that I am correct.
LEO is a different level of threat, no doubt.
I'm just a regular working guy, who prefers to keep his pistol in his belt rather than in the safe at home.
amen brother.
@@roscoejenkins1476 Condition 3 is no rounds in your magazine or chamber, condition 2 is full mag no round in the chamber. Condition 1 is round in chamber & magazine full...
This is the best firearm video I’ve ever seen condition three is the only way to go especially when you’re not in a high-risk environment
"high risk environment"... Like in church?? On a hiking trail? Like at a kindergarten party?? All those places are possible areas of armed conflict. There are countless instances on active self protection's yt channel where victims drew their condition 3 firearms and it just went "click" because the adrenaline made them forget to rack the slide. "i wont forget to rack"... Yeah sure... People do really dumb stuff when they're under immense amounts of stress. I carry condition 0, thus putting myself in the mindset that my gun IS ALWAYS LOADED AND DANGEROUS... Since that is the point of a firearm. The holster is the safety.
Carrying with an empty chamber is like driving without a seatbelt on and thinking you'll have time to put it on before the accident happens
An honest man, who speaks his mind. Thats rare nowadays.
I don't live in USA so no carrying unless your police or armed guard, but if I could I would carry in the way that lessened chance of shooting my junk off. I can't see racking taking "too much time"
Great video.!😃 I’m ex military.! and yes I do carry condition 3. Train in bedroom front of the mirror, couple a minutes everyday. Trust me you’ll be very fast😃✌️
You gotta do what you gotta do. I carry with a round in the chamber. My feeling is when the Adrenalin is flowing I don't want to be fumbling around trying to load my weapon. I carry every day every where and I practice drawing, firing, engaging multiple targets, moving to cover (avoiding a fight if I can) Also shooting groups for accuracy. That last is not practical in self defense, but useful training. I hope to never have to use it, but if I do I hope to emerge alive from the conflict. That is not a guarantee. I didn't catch all of your 18 minute rant. You do it your way, Ill do it mine.
I am 64 years old and have carried a weapon since I was a child. My grandfather and the service taught me to carry a weapon in condition 3. You don't want to trip and fall and shoot the man in front of you. You don't want to shoot youself pulling a gun from a hoslter. If you need to put a round in the chamber you should be in conditon 0 ready to fire the weapon. Condition 1 is when you do not need to shoot anymore. IMO gun control is more important than quick draw.
My argument against condition 3 has been the following - A condition exists where the bad has his gun drawn and is threatening someone other than you (family member, store clerk, etc.) You draw and proceed to rack the slide. Due to the noise, the bad guy's attention is drawn to YOU! His drawn weapon will automatically rotate in your direction. Whether you intended to fire or not, at that point with a weapon now pointed at you, you will have no other choice but to fire. So, originally the bad guy may have taken what he wanted and fled, but because of the racking noise you made it turn into a gun fight. The noise of the racking could have been replaced by a command "stop" "freeze" or something along those lines (like James Yeager's drawing technique) even in condition 2 - at least issuing a command instead of instigating a gun fight gives you a legal leg to explain why you took action.
Thanks, Roscoe! I'm going to get my CCW permit here in Oregon next week and I've been doing a lot of thinking along these lines. You helped me think it through. Your rational information about balancing the chances has really helped. I want to be 99 percent sure I never have an ND. I'm going to start carrying in Condition 3 as well and only go up to #1 if I find myself in a sketchy situation. And situational awareness will hopefully help me avoid those to begin with.
I'm an engineer too and its amazing how many gun owners don't understand the concept of personal risk assessment, and human performance factors. There is also the concept of the "design basis threat", and for us non law enforcement officers, that is different for each of us based on our situation and perception of risk. I've decided a while back, my "DBT" is not one where I'm going to quick draw. No interest in that. However, I'm not going to be cornered in a back room defenseless with a guy coming down the hall with an AR. Good video.
Been carrying at 3 o'clock position for about a month. I carry hot 24hrs a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year.
Everybodys different. Best not to judge others.
Solution is to carry DAO. Chambered with no worries of high adrenaline mishaps.
Thank for the rational discussion. I’m also an engineer, I started out with my SAO carying hammer cocked empty chamber safety on. I graduated to condition 1 after 2 months and watched Lenny Magill from Glock Store channel and he recommends condition 3. After your video I’m fully convinced.
Lenny McShine
I carry a pistol in case i need to use it like a fire extinguisher (to get to an exit)
You should carry condition 5, magazine unloaded and out of gun, box of ammo in your fanny pack, trigger lock on the gun, that way, after you're dead, at least the criminal doesn't have a gun that's ready to use
@@Sm00th-0p3rAt0r its not about whether or not the guy will ever have to jhonwayne someone in a quickdraw scenario or not. if they guy is scared of a loaded chamber, he clearly doesnt take training seriously. he is of the most ignorant when it comes to the civilians who are walking around with a gun. if he ever has to dive on the ground to not die and return fire, whoever is around will be downrange of a man who is laying on the ground shooting from this position for the first time in his life. plus, he isnt even a good shot when he is standing because he doesnt shoot but once a year. thats what i hear when someone carries on an empty chamber.
@@Sm00th-0p3rAt0r if you follow the four rules of operating a firearm you are guaranteed to never accidentally shoot yourself or nobody else. And those rules are as basic as keeping your finger off the trigger until you're ready to fire, not pointing your weapon at anything you are not willing to destroy, treating your weapon as if it is loaded until proven otherwise , and knowing what is behind your target before you shoot at it.
@@Sm00th-0p3rAt0r if you follow those rules you are guaranteed not to accidentally shoot yourself or anyone else. It is that simple.
@@Sm00th-0p3rAt0r if their gun ends up in the wrong hands, thankfully there is a thing called weapons retention.
@@Sm00th-0p3rAt0r sorry for the notifications but simple way to not shoot yourself while drawing your weapon
On target on trigger
Off target off triger
That falls in line with 1 of the 4 rules of firearms safety.
The data clearly supports condition 3. There is almost no data of a person unable to defend themselves because of condition 3 versus the data of people accidentally
egligently shooting themselves in condition 1. Agreed....run/hide/fight (Nice Richard Pryor Reference!)
Thanks for the huzzahs!
Emmanuel Goldstein his argument is simply that the risk of being in a violent situation and having s mis rack is much much smaller than the chance of an ad with condition one over the lifetime of the weapon.
It’s fundamentally not possible to mitigate for all risks associated with carrying, its a question of which risks you choose to mitigate for based on the odds of them happening. He also recognises those risks are different for people in different situations. E.g. the chances of a police officer having to draw their weapon in a first responder situation are much much higher than most of the public in a self defence situation.
For you clearly the perceived risks of not being able to discharge your weapon in a conflict situation is what worries you the most. He is just pointing out that that situation is unlikely enough that for most people it probably shouldn’t be the primary concern, and gun safety should trump this for most people.
If you follow all four rules of firearm safety you're guaranteed to never accidentally shoot anybody including yourself. Because if you keep your finger off of the trigger at all times until you are ready to fire, don't point your weapon at anything you are not willing to destroy, treat your weapon as if it's loaded until proven otherwise, and know what's behind your target before you shoot at it , you are guaranteed to never accidentally shoot yourself or others.
Thank you I've seen these negligent discharges even in combat situations I stand with you condition 3
infantry veteran: i side with you my friend. The safety of innocent family members or bystanders is greater and simply out weighs readiness. There are situations when I would go chambered but you are not only trusting yourself you also have to trust the trust the gun and neather are perfect. Too much room for error
Then those are some really special people... There are four rules to operating a firearm safely and efficiently... you should already know them as well as the people who had negligent discharges considering you had advanced infantry training as well as range time during boot camp... if you go through all of that training and still manage to either shoot yourself or shoot the clearing barrel then you are really special and you deserve a coloring book. Because it is beyond common sense to know to keep your finger off of the trigger until you're ready to fire your weapon, treat your weapon as if it's loaded at all times until proven otherwise, not pointing your weapon at anything you are not willing to destroy, and knowing what is behind your target before you shoot at it. If you need further help with these rules, then please hand your weapon over to the RSO and go sit in the corner and color a coloring book.
In other words if you are combat arms, and you have a negligent discharge, or even non combat arms and you still have a negligent discharge, you should be smoked until your arms fall off and then some. Because that means you went through basic training, training for your MOS if you are combat arms, pre-deployment training if you're not combat arms, further training while on deployment, and still had a negligent discharge?!
If a person is concerned that someone is going to single them out and come pin them down, they should possibly evaluate how peacefully they live. If I carry concealed, I will carry condition 3 because the risk of negligent discharge is much higher than the risk of engaging a threat in my life. If I was an officer, a convenience store cashier, or someone who attracted attention, I would of course carry condition 1. But I do not look at all like a dangerous person and I mostly keep to myself. I observe alot, don't probe people, and try to have a long fuse. I will always back down and away if someone seems threatening. I don't have anything to prove to anyone. If you speak softly and carry a big stick, the risk of being singled out is much less. It's not "0", but it is much much less.
I find it interesting that I'm an engineering student and went through a very similar thought process for the risk/safety analysis... Highest risks get the highest priorities. A gun is not for anyone who has something to prove.
There is no doubt that carrying with a round chambered increases the risk of accidental discharge. I won't even debate that point. Everyone who carries needs to ask themselves if they are more likely to have an accidental discharge or find themselves in a Matt Dillon fast-draw situation. I live in a safe area, but if I lived in Chicago the answer for me would be different.
the truth of the matter is that if someone in a high stress situation can't reliably rack a round into the chamber while raising their gun to the firing position just as quickly as just raising their gun, then they aren't trained well enough to be carrying around a loaded firearm.
I came across this video looking for a video to send to my buddy who has just started Conceal Carrying. This is your opinion and I respect it. The best way to not have issues is to have proper training and treat your weapon as if it was loaded even if you don't have a round o magazine in the weapon. To say that you will have a moment of negligence with your weapon. It is your opinion. I am just glad that you consider to carry period. I'm a Marine so it is second nature to me to carry with a round in the chamber. As you said training is the key.
My IDPA buddies get pissed when I do Israeli carry. But that's the way I carry, and that's the way I train.
If they think condition one is so safe, why do they insist nobody handle a loaded gun behind the firing line?
Fin Jan - carrying condition one is perfectly safe with a quality firearm. Handling a condition one firearm behind people is very different than carrying a condition one pistol in a decent holster behind people.
I agree
I keep my firearm in condition 3 as you say for the most part, it's no reason to carry 1 in the head at all times unless you know there is danger, and if it is you probably shouldn't be there. It's to eaches own though. I don't trust pulling a loaded gun from a holster or pants in the heat of the moment. Too much at risk, just train and be prepared for anything.
You can carry in condition 3 it's your choice, I carry hot or I don't carry at all. What's the Sense of having it if it's not hot and ready, know your weapon know your gear train often ENOUGH SAID.
Thank goodness. Someone speaking sensibly. I agree completely. In no case I have personally witnessed or experienced has there not been time to chamber a round. All this talk of "train with your weapon, be loaded or don't carry" is macho BS. If you are proficient with your weapon pulling that slide should not be a problem in 99.9% of cases. Of course the possibility exists that you may encounter that 0.01% chance but come on .... be real. I guarantee there are more cases of ND's than that slight chance of needing to have 1 in the chamber. And as you say - in certain cases and situations you will carry ready. Because of your sensible words I subscribed.
Thanks! Glad you found what I had to say useful!
Then you rack the slide again.
Roscoe Jenkins until an attacker is on you in close quarters and your other hand is engaged
Joe Mamma , the concern that in a pressure situation you rack the slide and fail to load a round into the chamber is a valid concern and one that the video recognises and addresses.
His argument is that the odds of being in a situation where you have to draw your weapon at all are very small for most people as long as you try to avoid overtly dangerous situations to be begin with. Then once your in a situation the chances of having to fire the weapon are small still. So the possibility of being in an armed conflict situation, having to shoot but not being able to because of either unavailability of non dominant hand or Mis rack with the slide is so low that it is an entirely reasonable risk to take .
On the flip side over the lifetime if a gun, the risks with negligent or accidental discharge associated with carrying with a round in the chamber are non trivial. Despite trigger safeties and drop safeties and safety associated with king double action trigger pull etc etc , over many years and a very large number of holstering upholstering loading unloading cocking decocking etc at some point he chance of an ad is significant,
His argument is simply that it is more important the mitigate for the non trivial risk of an accidental discharge than it is the highly unlikely possibility of the situation wheee you need to fire but can’t for the reasons you mention. His argument is essentially the same argument the Israeli military itself uses to justify this practice.
How is it macho bs to recommend training with your firearm?
I carry one in the chamber, but hammer down. Bersa, Beretta, Cz...lol And your right, a revolver has six in the chamber....The Lotec
I actually think my P-07 shoots better then my G19 as well.
This is one of the best videos that really break down odds. No question odds are EXTREMELY low that the 1/2 second it takes will not become a factor compared to the number of negligent or accidental discharges. The whole topic is based on risk to reward. I’m with you though. I’m just grateful to have a tool to defend my life. So to me safely is the upmost importance.
Gunfights are decided by tenths of a second, especially when you have an initiative deficit, which a self-defender will logically have, because of NOT being the attacker, as being the initial attacker is illegal.
I agree 100% . I carry condition 3. No matter how you carry, be proficient and practice.
For the record, I carry my striker fired sig 365xl in con 3. My S&W Bodyguard in con 0. The Bodyguard is DAO and has a rather long and fairly stiff trigger pull (takes practice to perfect it) but that adds a layer of safety that I dont have with my sig or colt with 4 and 3# triggers respectively
I've changed my thinking. Since I was a boy, shotguns and rifles were carried with no round in the chamber. I applied that rule to handguns. I now think a non-LEO should have a double action/ single Action, *drop-safe*, semiautomatic with an exposed hammer, and a safety switch plus decocker. Carry with one in the chamber, hammer down, and safety engaged. Most models will lack that option. Use a holster that covers the trigger guard, and retains the gun very solidly. Probably use a holster that requires using thumb to press a release button to unholster the gun. Holster and unholster with thumb pushing the back of the hammer to prevent its movement. Draw, then trip the safety off just before using the double action to fire the first round. I can more safely manipulate the safety and hammer, than I can hurriedly rack the slide. Requiring that I both switch the safety and move the hammer minimizes the chance of my boneheadedly discharging the gun. Not many models of handguns have: an exposed hammer, a decocker, and option to engage safety while the hammer is down.
Auto C1, revolver C3, shotgun C3(cruiser ready)
I carry cocked and locked as John Browning designed the 1911 for
I like this Guys honestly. Thank you brother
I understand his reasoning for condition 3 but that means he thinks he will never need to fire so why then does carry?
The most important rule. The gun is always loaded. If you carry thinking your gun is not chamber loaded you are you are risking you are 100% safe?
Always loaded is 100% certain.
Bruh I Cary a little revolver and put 5/6 bullets in it :) just do my mind stays at leave from a accidental mis fire
The people say that he carries in condition 3 because he does not expect to be in a gun battle. Why does he carry the question is. Because mostly even if he is in an encounter he will have time to rack the gun. he can carry the gun with confidence that he will not blow his nuts or shoot somebody accidentally by accidental discharge. Perhaps the trigger can malfunction did you ever think of that.perhaps he drops the gun out of his holster and by some freak accident gets caught on a tree limb that's on the ground. The trigger gets pulled the safety that is. Disaster strikes. Things like that can happen.how many times have you thrown a nickel I said I'm going to get it on a quarter-inch Little barrel ten feet away. But you know what I did that one time. Do you know what the odds of that twice?? Probably never. Accidents have a tendency to happen when they should not happen
@@robertlulek1634 if the firearm is going off by itself causing the trigger to pull itself that weapon is either the most unique mechanical flaw that I have saw in any firearm....Or just possessed...Because most triggers even single action only 1911's are five pounds...And most striker fire triggers have a mechanical device implemented where if something is not pressing on the trigger entirely then it won't pull the trigger back all the way....
@@JohnSmith09123 the problem is all it takes is a mistake and people although they think they can be perfect are not perfect beings. Accidents do happen and will happen.Just sent the video of a cop who was very experienced gun handler shot his finger off. No matter what you say you can have an impulsive reaction even like plaxico burress did in New York. The gun fell out of his pants pocket and his instinct was to grab for the gun.are you saying that if you by accident pull your gun and drop it or if it slips out of your holster in some way you might not instinctually go to grab for the gun? Or let's say you are in a struggle before you are able to draw your gun and the other person is stronger than you and overpowers you and shoots you with your own gun. It is a possibility and now it goes both ways.tell me I am slow at chambering my gun as I pull it out here is a video of me pulling my gun out and chambering at the same time. I will tell you I am not against carrying around in the chamber I often do.but I will only carry around in the chamber when I know I'm in a very seating neighborhood or in a situation that might be dangerous let's say inner City New York or Philadelphia which I carry both permits for.if I go to the movies let's say or I go out to a restaurant I do not carry one in the chamber. I'm fast enough to pull my gun and I'm a marksman I practice all the time. Most perps are terrible shots and I have that advantage over them. If a perp has their gun out anyway you have to wait for the opportunity to draw your weapon.so the point is pointless really if you can chamber that weapon in a split second it makes no difference and you are far more safe. The chance that I will ever be in a gun battle is pretty low very low almost nonexistent. I'm 59 years old and I have yet to be in a gun battle. People act as if every day this is San Pablo Brazil.
photos.app.goo.gl/sKcKBCAgPAX7KWXB6
@@robertlulek1634 *a mistake or accident is leaving your headlights on....Causing your firearm to go off when you did not intend it to is pure unadultrated negligence...In order to achieve that with any firearm you literally have to disregard a combination of the 4 firearms safety rules for it to happen. For example not clearing the weapon properly, and squeezing the trigger when you are not ready to fire. Or pointing it at something you are not willing to destroy on top of not treating it as if it were loaded and then putting your finger on the trigger*
Glock full magazine round in the chamber. No external safety except for experience and my finger. PRACTICE!
Exactly!
As a former law enforcement officer, condition three is stupid. If your not comfortable carrying a round in the chamber, carry pepper spray....
I find your video to be very thought provoking...thanks
We all have different comfort levels with firearms. I wouldn't carry a striker in condition 1 and I certainly do not carry appendix. But I am comfortable carrying condition one with DA/SA with hammer down and a heavy first pull. I carry around 3-4 o'clock position. Appreciate your video and keep carrying and training.
Yea i prefer hammer guns cause you can thumb the hammer as you holster.
I hadn’t even considered hammer down. Thanks!
@@lazarusrize I've now moved to appendix but with the same P07 with hammer down. I don't think I'll ever go striker....
@@richardnartia4054 Richard, this is pretty impressive. Reminds me of John Wick (Keanu) Reeves who is older than me. It gives me hope. LOL! 😂 th-cam.com/video/swveA-_1dus/w-d-xo.html
@@richardnartia4054 FYI: The H&K USP 45 Variant 1 is a nice “compact” pistol with a decocker and safety. I believe it’s the one used in the Michael Mann movie Collateral with Tom Cruise, as the “Silver Fox” hit man.
You carry the way you want to.For all those conditioned 1 people, you carry the way you want to.Just know.....you are responsible for every round that comes out of your gun,intended or not,and with that, comes accountability.all in all,I'd rather have a gun unchambered,than not have one at all.
Condition 1 is the way the 1911 was DESIGNED to be carried. Oh... you should let the bad guy shoot 3 or 4 more people in the time it takes to rack your slide and figure out how to acquire target while bullets from the bad guy's sawed-off AK47 are flying. Good strategy.
Don't worry. While you're trying to get one in the chamber I'll have already stopped the threat
What? You mean you think you can outgun someone with a rifle? And you would not run and hide leaving everyone else to be shot by the bad guy?????? /sarcasm
What a selfish little coward... he's actually admitting he'd run and hide during an active shooter situation! Wtf is that?? Ummm... HELLO! YOU HAVE A GUN, man up and stop the threat! What a sad admission by this chump.
@@petergriffin383 let's see mr. Peter Griffin if you are faced ever in that situation how brave you would be.???!!! Perhaps he might have a civil suit against you as well you have to use your head.if you know for a certainty life will be lost and you have the opportunity no doubt been a split-second if you are in a crowded situation I am sure you can chamber that gun quick enough I know that I can.I've been shooting for 40 years never had an accidental discharge and I am immarksman. Many bugs that come in to shoot do not know how to shoot and are terrible shots did you ever consider that?? So I make up a split-second loss of time with better shooting ability
@@robertlulek1634 If I'm ever caught up in an active shooter situation you can bet your ass I'm going to try stopping the threat. That's one of the reasons why I carry! If everyone decided to carry and train with their pistol, mass shootings would end very quickly... mass shooters are cowards, and they depend on people being unarmed. It takes a good guy with a gun to stop a bad guy with a gun, it's that simple.
Hes a fuckin lame bro
After reading all these comments, I need to pipe up and say... do what you want! I am a complete convert to carrying Condition 1. When I first bought my Shield 9, I NEVER would carry with a round in the chamber; too scary! I had a crappy IWB nylon holster, no proper training, and did not practice. Once I bought a great Kydex (Vedder) holster, received 20+ of classroom and range training, and then practiced my patootie off... I now can't imagine not carrying Condition 1. I have the confidence in myself, in my weapon, and in my training that I will not have a negligent discharge. Yes, accidents happen... that's why I keep that safety on, baby!
Condition three makes most sense for striker fired guns that lack an external safety. Many striker fired guns lack a safety and several of these weapons systems have discharged due to drops, operator error or for reasons that are as of yet not proven. My SIG P320 lacks an external safety and so do Glocks. The common way to reduce or eliminate the possibility of an unintended discharge is to not have a loaded chamber and also not have a charged weapon. The reasons in this video presented are valid
I've got a buddy that claims he carries in condition 3 because he doesn't want the firing pin spring to fail and the PIN to jolt forward and fire around unintentional. When he told me this quietly in my head I realized he doesn't know much about firearms and the mechanisms there in. A spring failure does not provide the firing pin enough forward momentum and pressure to ignite the primer if there was a failure and the pen fell forward. The pin is pulled back and released under pressure when the trigger is pulled...
Great talk. I'm also one of those engineers who spent my day job arguing if we were more or less than 10^-6 chance of a fatal accident. That didn't bother me, but I didn't like the discussions when the target was 10^-5.
I truly understand your point. I also lived from 2003-2005 in a former conflict zone where getting mugged or getting guns shoved in your face at a checkpoint was an unfortunate common occurrence. Never once did I think I could have resolved any of those situations with another gun. It took wits and a sound knowledge of the culture to talk your way out of it. Though that experience is different than what you would get as an LEO where your interaction is far more adversarial as the bad guy is fighting for his freedom to continue being a bad guy.
I carry the Sig 938 in condition 1, but it is a rare gun that I would. Here is the reason:
1. It is drop safe when the safety is engaged.
2. The safety is very positive and can be taken off surely from a firing grip.
3. All admin tasks including full take down can be performed without disengaging the safety or dropping the hammer.
4. There are 4 physical barriers between the hammer and the primer when carried condition 1: The safety holds the hammer, if the safety fails, the hammer lands on the sear. It the hammer slips off the sear it goes to the half cock notch where it can't drop further without resetting the hammer, if all that fails, I still have a firing pin block.
So, like your condition 3, I am two steps from firing or from an ND at anytime. (Disengage safety and pull trigger as opposed to rack and pull) I prefer this particular condition 1 over condition 3 as I've had many, many failures to into battery when chambering that first round. I don't trust that in a fight. I want to dump a mag before rolling that dice.
Great video, great that you voiced the perspective so concisely. I've always wanted to get my hands on actual data, but you are right, take the unknown small number risk squared over an unknown small number risk multiplied by a known large number.
It's a good thing we have options because just as uncomfortable as you might be carrying in condition 1 is just as uncomfortable as I would feel carrying this way. I feel it's like if you were in a car with your friend not wearing your seatbelt and he is doing 95 mph, you have some inclination that you should put your seatbelt on just in case he has an accident but there is always that other scenario where the same friend is driving the limit and you are not wearing your seatbelt and someone blows the light and creams you guys. You had no inclination that an accident was going to happen and therefore had no time to hurry up and put your seatbelt on even though it might have only taken a second to do so. I personally don't care how anyone else carries THEIR firearm. That's the beauty of it, you carry the way you feel comfortable. I am just glad we have options and I am positive that everyday that I can legally carry my firearm, it will be ready to go barring any malfunctions by unholstering and pulling the trigger.
While I agree with your point about being glad we have options, I think you've misapplied the seatbelt analogy here. We wear seatbelts as an added level of protection when driving a car because we know that accidents happen, just like some of us carry without a round in the chamber because we know that accidents happen. Carrying with a round in the chamber is like driving without a seatbelt, because you're afraid that some day the unlikely event is going to occur where you drive off a bridge into a body of water and the car is going to sink before you can get your seatbelt off and get away. This could certainly happen, but it is very unlikely. Especially if you are careful when driving over bridges, around bodies of water, and just very careful in general. But yes, you have the option to wear or not wear your seatbelt as you choose, and you have the option carry with a round in or out. Just be informed of the potential consequences of your actions and don't allow fear to drive your decisions into irrationality.
Roscoe Jenkins my seatbelt analogy was just to make a point that you would not try to throw your seatbelt on when you see an accident coming simply because you practiced it a thousand times over and it only takes a second. You may not always see a threat coming and even if you did, you don't address the fact that you might need to pull your firearm under concealment. By carrying in this condition, you're adding extra steps to getting your self ready to protect your life which might end up getting detected by your aggressor. I can agree that there are a lot of what if this and what if that but I feel like in a life or death situation, you may only have one chance and I'm not comfortable with adding additional steps to getting my firearm ready to go.
"you may only have one chance and I'm not comfortable..."
Exactly. You're letting your fear irrationally dictate your actions.
I think my video adequately addresses the probability of obscure and unlikely occurrences happening and the extra fraction of a second that is required to charge your weapon making the difference between life and death vs. the much more significant probability of you having a negligent discharge at some point. The former is extremely unlikely and the later is probable. In fact, I think my video beats the horse to death. I don't know how else to explain it to someone like you if you've watched the video and you still do not get it. Do what you like. Hopefully you won't shoot your pecker off.
I'll make this my final thought, so if you decide that you have your own final thought and I don't reply, it's nothing personal. Just agreeing to disagree is all! This was my very point when I said, that is the beauty of having options. You are letting your "fear" of shooting yourself and the data that proves its more likely that you'll shoot yourself by having a round chambered dictate your actions. I personally am not fearful that I will shoot myself. But my question would be, how much of that data would ultimately matter if God forbid you were attacked and because of the time it took for you to chamber a round, you found your demise? It really wouldn't matter whether its 1 percent, 2 percent, 10 percent. Would your family then put on your head stone that you went with the probability and loss the gamble? In addition, if we are going to go with probability then either one of us carrying a firearm in the first place is probably unnecessary. I am 48 and have never had my life threatened but yet we both still carry. We carry not cause the percentages are high that we'll ever have to use it but because there is even a percentage to speak of at all. Also, if you notice......I never said you were wrong for how you want to carry YOUR firearm or referred to you as a girly man because it's YOUR firearm and it really boils down to what YOU feel comfortable with. I think one of the only reasons that I even replied was because you made a point of saying how you don't care what people thought of you for carrying the way you do but you made a whole video trying to justify why the data proves this is the more rational way to carry. How would anyone even know you carry in this condition unless you bring it up or make a video about it. Where as I feel, how rational will it be if the small percentage that you say there is actually sneaks up on you. Kydex holster, keep your finger off the trigger, when I remove my firearm or put it back on, I remove the entire firearm and holster together to limit unnecessary removing of the firearm from the holster so my exposure to having an accidental discharge is probably just about the same amount as yours, during range time, Anyway, nothing wrong with a difference of opinion when neither of our decisions affects the other. Carry on, be safe and hopefully your odds will always be in your favor!
Thanks for the comments. Be safe man!
A lot of this has to do with what kind of firearm and holster is being used along with the person using the firearm. For safety sake this is a personal choice, the simplest things can change everything. Being scatter braided vs sharp as a tack, having someone with current training to help you vs no help at all, living alone vs several people and kids, having a range at your home vs never practicing and so on. If you have thought things through and are comfortable with your choice stick with it, it's safer for everyone in the long run.
This is about statistics and associated probabilities.
@@tubeslats stats and associated probabilities are life.
You need to do a force on force training. Condition 3 loses literally every time.
You could say this for condition 1 as well. But this is all assuming you're in a quickdraw shoot out at high noon.
@@austinlance7206 if you need to use one arm to draw your weapon because someone with a knife your using one arm to defend while you draw click and fire . 1911 has three safeties and is made to carry cocked and locked . Always a probability. Try getting your weapon into battery with one hand
@@austinlance7206 why set yourself up with another thing to overcome. Why not just practice more and carry chambered or condition one
Well look at it this way...... Do you put on your seat belt after the accident?
Great analogy...
Yeah, we can always see when an accident will happen.
Carrying the firearm IS “wearing the seatbelt”, so to speak.
Seatbelt?
I look at it like the old seatbelt argument. They will say carrying any gun unchambered is like hoping you can click your seatbelt in before impact when you get it a car wreck. I would say carrying a chambered gun is like not wearing a seatbelt because you might get in the kind of wreck that the seatbelt traps you and you have to cut it t escape. I carry daily and several times a day (when I go into or come out of work, or go to my child's school) I need to remove and replace the weapon on my person. The chances that something goes wrong with one of those events is infinitely higher than the circumstance that I will need to use my gun to protect my life. But the chance of something going wrong is zero without a round in the chamber and the chances that I will be able to protect my life without a round in the chamber is only very slightly reduced. My gun is like my seatbelt, I don't plan on using it today, but if I need to it is there waiting, but mostly all it does is nothing.
Finally. Great share. It really depends on the threat level. If I had a double action compact, I would certainly have no problem with a chambered weapon. Some people carry outside, almost inviting someone to take it from them. Ain't no fun when the rabbit has the gun. Plenty of scenarios to qualify.
haha..like the analogy
How many people are in jail because of an incident where they lost their mind temporarily let's say road rage.they draw that weapon and one is already in the chamber and by accident they press the trigger doesn't take much when you're hyped up. Not a rack that gun that split-second you thinking what am I doing?? Maybe perhaps it will save you from jail time. all of you say that you would never pulled a gun from road rage never say never when you're very angry it can happen to anybody
I totally agree man. Its refreshing to find someone who doesnt follow the crowd. Theres an inherent risk either way. I dont live in a high crime area and almost all of the old people at my church have never experienced a life and death situation like that. It's more likely that I will accidentally shoot one of my children that are around me almost 24/7 having to consistently take my gun in and out of the holster than it is likely that I will run into a bad guy and happen to only have a fraction of a second before I meet death. Even if it is more likely than I am to face that bad guy than accidentally shoot one of my children, or anybody, I would probably not change. If I shot one of my children, I might as well be shot by a bad guy because I wouldn't even want to live anymore.
People talk all the time about training and gun safety, and what is like the first rule everybody states? "Dont point the gun at anyone." I guarantee that if you believe in carrying a live round, you wouldn't even be comfortable with a trustful, highly-trained military guy pointing a gun at you with an empty chamber. Why? Because we all know accidents can happen. Hence the reason for carrying the chamber empty.
I carry my 1911 in condition 3. Less liabilities and it only takes a split second to chamber a round. Great video👍👍👍👍
A 1911 has 3 safeties why the hell would you carry it with out a round chambered? Seriously? You have a half-cock, a grip safety, and a slide lock. So you could carry with a round chambered and hammer on half-cock or cocked and locked. Both easy and reliable. Thumb back the hammer while drawing or flip down the slide lock. I've carried mine both ways.
Why would you say that a 1911 is a terrible self-defense gun? It's a great gun for conceal carry. Holds more rounds than any revolver, faster to reload too. Has a slimmer profile than any double stack automatic. Plus, any spare mags you might carry are slimmer, more easily concealed and more comfortable to carry.
It also takes two hands to chamber a round. If you are knocked down or are trying to move a family member out of danger good luck chambering a round. What happens when you fail to fully rack the slide and jam the gun. Using your logic of odds of defending yourself why even carry? One time in 50 years, youcould have been dead. The probabilty theory is silly. If you are on the ground with somebody on top of you good racking the slide. If you keep your finger and foreign objects off the trigger the gun will not fire except for mechanical failure, whats the odds of that. Whats the odds of negligent/accidental discharge when you rack the slide in an emergency? If someone is that afraid of a gun maybe they should not carry. Good luck one handed racking in an emergency.
You 100% right, my man. Excellent video.
Most people are incapable of learning anything other than the yank and crank method and their narrow view and lack of experience is evident in many of the negative responses to this video. In my opinion carry however you want just practice, practice ,practice.
This guy needs to take more then one ! More then 3 ! Safety classes !
I prefer one in the chamber with safety on than empty chamber and no safety. Safety I can disable with one hand, but chambering is really hard one handed, especially under stress.
I carry my firearm hot and ready tbh. I’m new to being a firearm owner but I always thought that’s how you carry cuz it’s the most logical 🤷🏻♂️ each his own though I ain’t tryna change anybody’s mind.
Az is a constitutional carry state, no permit required to carry concealed, but we also have a mandatory minimum sentence for any accidental discharge which mean you become a prohibited person. So, many weigh the benefit of Condition 1 and the potential for prison vs Condition 3 which all but guarantees no risk of an accidental discharge.
Roscoe, I agree with you for the most part. I, however, don’t carry to protect myself. So if someone comes into Chick-fil-A and starts shooting at everyone, I will not run. I will pull the gun and rack the slide and try to take him down without harming others. Saving other peoples lives is my intent, not saving my own life necessarily. I am 71 so I have no mouths to feed , so I don’t care. Who knows if I will be able to act, though, with the panicky situation.
Well presented and you convinced me!
The Israelis have been carrying this way for years. (Military, Police, civilians.) If you train that way, then there should be no issues. Depending on the situation I carry either way. I train that way, and cannot see much if any difference. Guess it all depends on the person behind the trigger.
It's just tactically disadvantageous to carry with no round in the chamber. I'm going to assume those who don't are in fact afraid of their firearm or not confident in their abilities using the firearm. Statistically negligent discharges most commonly occur with single action appendix carry. Those occurrences are because of NEGLIGENCE, not the gun. They failed multiple steps of safety, like having the safety off and finger on the trigger. Others come from thinking your gun is unloaded when its loaded, clear your firearm after you take the magazine out first, simple mess up that can cost alot. Obviously manually bringing the hammer down is another one people fail at. What do all these have in common? Negligence from the individual carrying.
But if someone is still so opposed because of the stats, then carry a single double action and use the decocker like I do (I hate safetys on edc guns).
But an empty chamber is better than nothing, true. I guess what gets me on this video though is the strawmaning. The main argument and general consensus against an empty chamber isn't about being effeminate, its that its again, tactically disadvantageous. There are literally 0 reasons for not caring one in the chamber. Its either because you're afraid of the gun or afraid of your ability to use the gun. You don't trust the tool and/or yourself. What other reasons are there?
i strongly agree with you cause no round in chamber =no self doubt and safer you are on point
To each their own, but coming from the military and training under 'combat' situations a fraction of a second can be life or death. For risk mitigation I carry a DA/SA, but always round in the chamber appendix. If people have a Glock a striker control device as well. Again each their own.
100% agree. The human factor to commit errors is significant. For everyday carry condition 3 makes so much more sense as a private citizen.
The chances of an accidental discharge or someone getting ahold of the handgun are MUCH greater than having to shoot someone while I’m minding my own business. The only time condition one is warranted is if I’m going to a rough area or bad situation. And you’re right. I’m not going to shoot someone in a robbery of myself or a business unless they’re threatening to kill somebody. If they leave with money or jewelry and I don’t have to fire a shot. I win. The defensive handgun is only for a life threatening situation and 84% of the time you don’t need to shoot to gain control of the situation and prevent a violent crime. People often shoot themselves by accident when holstering in condition one. Not a zero chance of a negligent discharge in condition one. Zero chance in condition 3.
I'd be slightly worried that somehow I would have a loading mishap at the worst possible moment while racking the slide.
Blows my mind how so many people say there’s never any mechanical failure on a gun, but yet they talk about the idea of an accidental discharge being due to the mechanical failure of the gun. Which one is it? Are they safe or are they not? Or do people just don’t want to take responsibility for what is actually a negligent discharge?
You’re why I carry. Thanks for the video.
Glad other engineers feel the same way about this. I get so much hate for preaching condition 3 carry.