Makes a lot of sense. The idea is transistor power für the bass and tube amplification for mids and hights. You don’t want to mix these two types of amplification and send the mixed power to one pair of binding posts that then goes to bass mids and hights. Only way of keeping it separated (and each for it’s dedicated purpose) is bi wiring. I like the looks of the monos a lot by the way and it’s bad that they are not for you. I believe they sound amazing.
Jay, I own these. You can use them full range bypassing the internal crossover and power your Wilson's with the 600w rear OR the 300w fronts. BUT, bi-amping them is what they were designed for obviously and I've never had a better bi-amp set up than with these. There isn't a way however to turn off the front or rear amp while using the other so it will idle while the other is in use.
If you use the solid state and can't turn off the tube section, can you turn down the tube section gain enough so that the tubes are idle and won't damage the unloaded output transformers?
Well this is like the groom buying a tickets to Porto Rico, and the bride booking hotels and entertainment in Costa Rico, I’m sorry you wasted your money and time. It really shows your hate of McIntosh faulting them for not being able to use the 901 on single binding post speakers. If someone spends 100K on a speaker wouldn’t you expect to be able to bi amp it? Personally I own McIntosh amps and preamps, I find them a very good value for the money!
It would be easy for the speaker manufacturers to separate the bass driver from the mid and tweeter with dual binding posts. Personally, I think passive speaker crossovers should be in separate boxes externally for some serious tinkering, this might be hard to provide a warranty for.
With the caliber of the XVX, the manufacturer doesn't want the sound to be messed up by the end user. Additionally, the passive crossover in the XVX is better than any electronic crossover you're likely to find.
Imagine spending $70k+ on amps and not even checking if it'll work with your speakers. Posted some stupid shit before but this clearly takes the cake. Dude loves to talk about how all this is attainable just by working hard but 70K is literally more than a year's salary for a LOT of people and he blew that on amps he's not even gonna use 😂😂😂
You can definitely use it with a wilson audio speaker. All you have to do is to choose tube or solid-state and you are set. That's what I will be doing with my MC901. I am so surprised that you are making an issue out of this. I am so surprised that you didn't know this about the MC901.
I love that you are trying McIntosh. I’d love to see how they perform compared to the ultra hi-end stuff you have tried. I’m a big fan of McIntosh, I like warmer sounds, I know it’s a trade with clarity but that is what sounds better to me and my wife. Yes my wife also appreciates hi-end audio and I’ve come to learn that women have a different hearing, they tend to hear the high frequencies more than us men. So for her the McIntosh is the favorite.
When By-Amping your Wilsons you’ll have to use an external electronic crossover and the one that I’m most familiar with that’s extremely high end would be the Pass labs external electronic crossover. It has huge variability and setting its crossover points and slopes. You will probably need an expert to set this one up.👌
I own an XVR-1. It is extremely transparent. I had the designer of the crossover at Pass (talk about great service) help me with setup. It can be intimidating at first but once you see how it’s done it’s actually very logical. Probably time to sell it as it as it has sat unused for years but I think I might regret it
Jay, they make other products that can be used with Magico, Wilson, and those speakers that cannot be bi-amped. If you understood what that Mac amp is and what it does, you should have known it cannot be used without bi-amp connectors on the speaker. There is no way that McIntosh could have designed it differently to work with speakers that cannot be bi-amped. What you should have done, is got the MA12000, an integrated amp with a tube pre-amp stage and solid state power output stage. Or you could have bought a separate McIntosh tube pre-amp and a separate solid state amp (or even use your new Gryphon amp).
Jay, come on man... You can't use vinyl records in a CD player either. Keeping it real. This one's on you, don't blame the biamp approach. System matching is important. There's a real place for biamping for a lot of systems out there. It however doesn't apply to your system as it stands today.
Jay, just happed upon this video and really enjoyed watching it. Sorry the amps didn’t workout, but I bet you won’t make that mistake again! Keep up the incredible work!
But it takes a big man to admit to such a mistake, I applaud you for that and find your choice. Very interesting and look forward to hearing it in the future. Thanks for all your hard work and sharing your info with other folks wanting to learn.
Js audio has the 901 tube section powering a pair of wilson audio speakers and the ss powering the wilson subs. You can use the 2 amp sections as separates. A cool test would be to power your wilson speakers with just the tube section and then just the ss section and compare.
Just use the tube or solid state separately on your chronosonic. Switch and see which one you like. Maybe one is better for certain types of music, so having both separately still makes sense.
I feel you, we all know Mcintosh makes some great sounding stuff (I have some myself), and the 901 is a great product for helping some people to "tune" their speakers. I do believe Wilson, Magico, and the like have done the work in crossover design to make the need for tuning mute (also, gives them the ability to control how the product sounds). Tube sections can take what might be called "hot" top ends, smooth out overly articulate mids, but I believe the top speaker designs don't suffer from these design choices. In a weird twist, the very top made things simpler, who knew. Great work Jay.
Did you not get these from a dealer? Wouldn't they ask you what speakers they're for and not let you purchase for Wilson's? Or, did you get the SF's and these are for those?
This amp was designed specificly for the B&W 800 Diamond series speakers. These speakers have never been coherent with the tweeter sounding like a different speaker than the md and woofer. The tweeters always needed a soft tubey sound while the woofers were wooly and needed power and speed. The old amp that could do that was Classe or the big 750 watt VTL tube amps. McIntosh knows it is a luxury brand not a performance brand like B&W so that is their market.
Very funny post :). This is the basics - also lots of Focals. McIntosh makes lots of amps and most of them work with single set of binding posts. This amp is SPECIFICALLY designed for this. I have a the Salon2 so I can use it but I have the other problem...I can't afford it 🤕
Wilson speakers have separate cables for upper channels, right? So technically, someone (OCD Mikey maybe) could get a breakout box built that would allow bi-amping. Not sure anyone would recommend doing that though.
I really wish you buy some speakers to try. Maybe 2 separate sets high and low. And just use the crossovers from the Mac's. That's what a good Lab would do.😊😊
Made the same mistake, purchased a SS amp with the thought of bi amping a pair of Thiel. 3.6's. Then realized they too only had 1 pair of binging post and were not designed for it or bi-wiring. I did not spend a whole lot on the amps, so it did not sting all that hard. Nonetheless it was a difficult thing to explain to my bride. I still hope you will put some McIntosh amplification in your system at some point. You mention looking at the MC2KW, I would suggest the MC1.25KW as an alternative. Still every bit a statement piece with gobs of power and being a single chassis a little easier to handle and place.
Ono so sorry for the mishap maybe you can send those back for the Macintosh 1.2 KW McIntosh solid state amps to try I think you would absolutely love it
Hi Jay unfortunate u could not test run the Mc901s...was looking for an opinion on the 901s vs DanD Progression M550s monoblocks. Thinking about moving from hybrid to class A. 🙏❤
Jay, I have a wonderful Conrad Johnson tube pre amp and a McIntosh solid state amp and they sound fantastic together. I’m sure you’ll be pleased pairing the Mac preamp with the Apex.
Nice new intro That is amazing, so expensive and no budget for an extra pair of connectors and wiring.. Only one solution, you have to get new speakers 🙂
A shame you cant hook them up with the 901s, if you can try to get the 1.2kw's. The combo with those mono's and the sonus faber aida's is amazing, i can imagine your wilsons would sound awesome aswell
Gorgeous; while a great concept, solid state for bottom, tubes for kids, it strikes me the way when I hear hybrid cars; gasoline for the city, electric for the highway; nope a balls to the wall solid state amplifier and tube preamplifier is the way I would go. Many amps are using tubes for input stage and transistor for the output with middling results. Alternatively all tubes preamp and amp or all solid state; have you tried the VAC pre with the Boulder. The amp magnifies what is in front of it that is why I like a tube pre and solid state amp. Then there are those who say it should be the same brand for both because they both come from the mind of the manufacturer so less danger of a mismatch BUT some manufacturers are great for their amps, preamps not so much and vice versa; end of rant.
Jay, i must agree with u that MC901 restricting its use with bi-amp speaker is quite strange. When i first saw your video with MC901, I thought u would use MC901 with other speakers.
I wouldn't buy the 901s even if I had the money. Don't like the design, and the form factor doesn't work in my space. But the C11000 looks pretty good. Dumb question, though: do you research stuff before you buy it? That would have let you avoid the compatibility issue with the Wilsons. While not obsessed per se, I'm close when it comes to researching a potential purchase.
I heard in your review that one of the tubes is a rectifier tube. It's not. It most likely is a phase inverter, maybe. Mac, uses solid state rectification.
Jay great amplifier awesome look. Being a tube guy I don't believe this mac has tube rectification . Some macs have it but the 12ax7a is a preamp tube. They probably have solid state rectification maybe full wave rectifier diode bride or configured single diodes for the rectification. 12at7 is a preamp type tube as well.
I'm following this with great interest, as I was looking at the McIntosh 451 hybrid monos. I like the idea of tubes for the top end combined with high current solid state power for the bass, and my speakers have two sets of input terminals. Then I thought about the passive crossover slopes in these 3-way speakers and compared them to the choices available on the solid state and tube sections of the amps. Perhaps I'm making too much of this, but a optimal match with the speaker and amp crossovers is difficult/impossible to achieve? It all seems like a ton of tweaking with no promise of good results. Thank you for this informative presentation.
You don't need to match the speaker crossover curves. The amps have separate crossovers that are designed to optimize power efficiency. The tube amp has a high-pass filter (set below speaker crossover), and the solid state amp has a low-pass filter (set above speaker crossover). You do need to be careful with the settings but you aren't trying to match anything. Just setting the tube xover at 0 and the ss xover at max, would work perfectly fine, unless the speaker xover was unusually high. This type of arrangement is pretty common but requires two (or four) amps and active crossovers. Mac is just packaging everything together.
Not all Wilson’s are single amp only, same with Magico. I have no experience w/Rockport speaker but I’d be surprised if they too don’t offer biamplification option. Vast majority of quality speakers are biamp capable. Every speaker in my home is at least biamp capable. I would however not want an amp that has 4 discreet output stages. Never been a big McIntosh fan due to their unique voicing but I understand & respect folks who enjoy them. Conceptually a 4 output stage amp for channel separation makes little practical sense.
Jay, just a little correction: The Rockport Arrakis has two versions, one of them has to be biamped. The Rockport Lyra can be purchased, at an extra cost, with the biamping option.
Those McIntosh MC2KW mono-blocs are designed for things like rock concerts, not for the ultimate in home audio with top of the line Wilson or Magico speakers. The Wilson's and Magico's don't need 2,000 watts RMS into 8 ohms per channel in your listening room. The MA12000 integrated amp (with tube preamp section and solid-state amp section) will sound much better than than those MC2KW's in a high-end listening room. Or get one of the smaller McIntosh monoblocs if you insist on a separate solid state amp.
Uh, yeah, I could have told you that the 901’s require bi-amping - although I couldn’t tell you too much more about it. It does seem odd that the amp is effectively restricted to no-ampable speakers, but that’s the nature of the beast w/two amps in one chassis with each designed for a different load/range. I’d love to have a pair of these amps connected to a pair of Klipsch La Scalas… I love the fact your trying to integrate mixed components, like the McIntosh preamp w/ the Gryphon Apex. I can't wait to hear of the results.
Can't you use two runs of cables? It's just a matter of connecting a set with bananas plugs and another set with spades on the speaker's binding posts. I don't see any problem in that. Of course, you might not be able to get a full advantage of biwiring, but you can use the amps
By simply looking at a picture of the back of the amp should have made you question if it would work . There’s two separate sets of binding posts, not to mention a diagram showing what’s what.
I was wondering earlier why you bought those. Thought maybe you were going to try different speakers. It’s too bad you can’t try those monoblocs with the c11000. That would be a heavenly match.
This was cool Jay, Really good and brutal look, i would had bought them off you if had that kind of money. Thanks for giving us the great introduction off the McIntosh from you. Thanks Jay.
You can biamp anything just a new pair of terminals off the crossover and remove it from the main. Definitely mods but from someone who built their speskers this is cake.
Jay you’re not making any sense on this one brother. Your argument for McIntosh not thinking about speaker brands that have only one set of binding posts is the same as the speaker companies not thinking about having two binding posts. Nobody is wrong, well the manufacturers aren’t wrong. You on the other hand should have done a little homework man. Again how would you even begin to think a Tube (2301) and Solid State (611) could possibly connect to one binding post. They are two power units in one chassis and thus have to be connected to 2 sets of binding posts. I know you’re just pissed and venting and I get that but this one is kind of on you buddy. Also, I think you should try the MC1.25kw as they are fantastic. I would also love to see you eventually fine the MC2kw as those are huge. All the best my friend 😎
Looks beautiful, wonder if the sound matches. Boulder again take note. And uhh, that’s a 10 yard penalty and loss of down on not finding out that ya need biampable speakers lol oh well! I like the combo of solid state amp with tube preamp.
C’mon…it’s the manufacturer’s fault that you didn’t read the most basic specifications of the amplifier? Reminder that you can’t use an air conditioner to cook dinner I love your effort, but perhaps you should rename the feed to “The Gryphon Audio Lab” - if you don’t find any other equipment interesting or worthwhile, because your taste is so firmly fixed, then what is your objective here? (You could add a footnote for Boulder). I offer the question with respect and appreciation for your hard work, and know that you do this to make audio more interesting and engaging for all of us
@@pierrekeler3635 completely agree that was a strange setup, at that level an nd555 would be a minimum and also set up properly on fraim with advice from a decent dealer
I have only mentioned the seting up properly part because last time Jay heard this it wasnt set up correctly. anyone who has been able to set up naim gear right will know the difference@@pierrekeler3635
Great looking amplifiers Jay these would have been very interesting to listen to and I like the idea of high current class D on the bottom end and Macintosh tube magic on the top, keep up the good work
Bummer about the wasted effort, Jay. I'm also surprised that the big Macs are incompatible with the best and brightest speaker brands. They certainly look phenomenal. I hope you have better luck in the future. I bet you won't make the same mistake twice.
also i'm still interestedin the high end, though i dont have the means....i could saveup fora van den hul cartr just because,but thats about it; i do collect vinyl for50+ years though
Why would Wilson make a 300k pair of speakers that are not bi ampable? Madness. McIntosh did nothing wrong here, to unbiamp this amplifier would defeat the purpose of the amp. Wilson, not McIntosh, need to fix this issue. Thanks for trying, Jay, good work.
Wilson isn't the only manufacturer to not offer bi-amping. It isn't madness and is done deliberately. There is great effort put into an XVX crossover and bi-amping allows the potential to mess this up.
@@ramsaybolton9099 What? I think you may have misunderstood me. Bi-amping would be detrimental to a well executed speaker design. It may be beneficial for tuning lesser speakers but not well executed ones for which there is no benefit.
@@carlosoliveira-rc2xt no excuses. You put a man on the moon, transplant a heart, clone an animal, and can’t properly bi amp a “well executed” speaker? No excuses, none. No excuses, get it done. Hmm, I think you word “executed” is very apt…. Someone at Wilson needs to be.( not literally of course). No excuses!
What a strange amplifier. Speakers already have filters dual binding posts or not. Sub woofers have there own build in amps. So way would you build an amp for such a specific use?
I like your channel, Jay, but honestly, this is a weird story. A prof like you would not check before purchasing such a super expensive amp whether it fits into your system? If you google, you get plenty of information about the bi amping problem with some brands. As this is a deal breaker point a decent dealer should also give you a hint, just in case…
Hey Jay, funny story but as you explained, if it is the purpose of this amp to drive two different chassis with two different technologys than you have nothing to complain about. Just get some 8:22 information about a product before you buy it…. What do you think 😅
Makes a lot of sense. The idea is transistor power für the bass and tube amplification for mids and hights. You don’t want to mix these two types of amplification and send the mixed power to one pair of binding posts that then goes to bass mids and hights. Only way of keeping it separated (and each for it’s dedicated purpose) is bi wiring. I like the looks of the monos a lot by the way and it’s bad that they are not for you. I believe they sound amazing.
Jay - your efforts are always appreciated. Thanks.
Many loudspeaker manufacturers are moving away from bi-wiring.
Grtz Phil
Jay, I own these. You can use them full range bypassing the internal crossover and power your Wilson's with the 600w rear OR the 300w fronts. BUT, bi-amping them is what they were designed for obviously and I've never had a better bi-amp set up than with these. There isn't a way however to turn off the front or rear amp while using the other so it will idle while the other is in use.
If you use the solid state and can't turn off the tube section, can you turn down the tube section gain enough so that the tubes are idle and won't damage the unloaded output transformers?
Well this is like the groom buying a tickets to Porto Rico, and the bride booking hotels and entertainment in Costa Rico, I’m sorry you wasted your money and time. It really shows your hate of McIntosh faulting them for not being able to use the 901 on single binding post speakers. If someone spends 100K on a speaker wouldn’t you expect to be able to bi amp it? Personally I own McIntosh amps and preamps, I find them a very good value for the money!
It would be easy for the speaker manufacturers to separate the bass driver from the mid and tweeter with dual binding posts. Personally, I think passive speaker crossovers should be in separate boxes externally for some serious tinkering, this might be hard to provide a warranty for.
With the caliber of the XVX, the manufacturer doesn't want the sound to be messed up by the end user. Additionally, the passive crossover in the XVX is better than any electronic crossover you're likely to find.
Nah, if they make the crossover outside of the box, I will NEVER buy their speakers.
Imagine spending $70k+ on amps and not even checking if it'll work with your speakers. Posted some stupid shit before but this clearly takes the cake. Dude loves to talk about how all this is attainable just by working hard but 70K is literally more than a year's salary for a LOT of people and he blew that on amps he's not even gonna use 😂😂😂
Ya work harder lol. Just start working 16 hours a day and never be home for your kids and family. Makes sense.
You can definitely use it with a wilson audio speaker. All you have to do is to choose tube or solid-state and you are set. That's what I will be doing with my MC901. I am so surprised that you are making an issue out of this. I am so surprised that you didn't know this about the MC901.
Doesnt make sense then. Buy a 2301 or 611 but not 901
I love that you are trying McIntosh. I’d love to see how they perform compared to the ultra hi-end stuff you have tried. I’m a big fan of McIntosh, I like warmer sounds, I know it’s a trade with clarity but that is what sounds better to me and my wife. Yes my wife also appreciates hi-end audio and I’ve come to learn that women have a different hearing, they tend to hear the high frequencies more than us men. So for her the McIntosh is the favorite.
Awesome
Will lose
Beautiful McIntosh Amplifiers wish you could have used them, but I understand your situation
When By-Amping your Wilsons you’ll have to use an external electronic crossover and the one that I’m most familiar with that’s extremely high end would be the Pass labs external electronic crossover. It has huge variability and setting its crossover points and slopes. You will probably need an expert to set this one up.👌
250k speakers let me buy an external crossover oh no 🤣😂
Think unit does not require an External Crossover! Self Contained!
I own an XVR-1. It is extremely transparent. I had the designer of the crossover at Pass (talk about great service) help me with setup. It can be intimidating at first but once you see how it’s done it’s actually very logical. Probably time to sell it as it as it has sat unused for years but I think I might regret it
Now you just changed the characteristics of speaker, it wasn't designed for that.
Uhh no, that would be a hugh mistake.
Jay, they make other products that can be used with Magico, Wilson, and those speakers that cannot be bi-amped. If you understood what that Mac amp is and what it does, you should have known it cannot be used without bi-amp connectors on the speaker. There is no way that McIntosh could have designed it differently to work with speakers that cannot be bi-amped. What you should have done, is got the MA12000, an integrated amp with a tube pre-amp stage and solid state power output stage. Or you could have bought a separate McIntosh tube pre-amp and a separate solid state amp (or even use your new Gryphon amp).
Jay, come on man... You can't use vinyl records in a CD player either. Keeping it real. This one's on you, don't blame the biamp approach. System matching is important. There's a real place for biamping for a lot of systems out there. It however doesn't apply to your system as it stands today.
Did it for views.
@@TheMrgonzalo05dumb reply.
The Macintosh 1.2 KW will rock your world give it a try it has more power than your 901 but I'm sure your 901 will be awesome love what you do
To avoid possible future mistake Mac MC2KW is meant for TRI-amp. So your will speaker need 3 sets of binding post. 😊😉
Not correct
I'm amazed no one told you it's incompatible with the Wilsons
Jay, just happed upon this video and really enjoyed watching it. Sorry the amps didn’t workout, but I bet you won’t make that mistake again! Keep up the incredible work!
can you run the high ends to your speakers, and the low set to a subwoofer.
No
But it takes a big man to admit to such a mistake, I applaud you for that and find your choice. Very interesting and look forward to hearing it in the future. Thanks for all your hard work and sharing your info with other folks wanting to learn.
Thank you!
Nice buy Jay, thank you...
Js audio has the 901 tube section powering a pair of wilson audio speakers and the ss powering the wilson subs. You can use the 2 amp sections as separates.
A cool test would be to power your wilson speakers with just the tube section and then just the ss section and compare.
True
Where do you usually sell ? Do you lose a lot on sales
Try to replace them with a set of MC3500 MKII monos. Those would be interesting for you to try.
Jay, please tell me you didn’t buy these amps for your Wilson XVX not know they’re meant for bi-amping. 🤦🏻♂️
Don’t know why some hi end speakers are not setup for bi or Tri wiring.
@@Coneman3 Daryl Wilson on record explaining this point. Easy to find.
Just use the tube or solid state separately on your chronosonic. Switch and see which one you like. Maybe one is better for certain types of music, so having both separately still makes sense.
You can't
@770Stephens owns these (he commented earlier). He confirms it. @@jaysaudiolab
Good point.
I feel you, we all know Mcintosh makes some great sounding stuff (I have some myself), and the 901 is a great product for helping some people to "tune" their speakers. I do believe Wilson, Magico, and the like have done the work in crossover design to make the need for tuning mute (also, gives them the ability to control how the product sounds). Tube sections can take what might be called "hot" top ends, smooth out overly articulate mids, but I believe the top speaker designs don't suffer from these design choices. In a weird twist, the very top made things simpler, who knew. Great work Jay.
Thanks
Did you not get these from a dealer? Wouldn't they ask you what speakers they're for and not let you purchase for Wilson's? Or, did you get the SF's and these are for those?
I didn't get these from a dealer
Would love too hear your returns on the dartzeel monoblocks
This amp was designed specificly for the B&W 800 Diamond series speakers. These speakers have never been coherent with the tweeter sounding like a different speaker than the md and woofer. The tweeters always needed a soft tubey sound while the woofers were wooly and needed power and speed. The old amp that could do that was Classe or the big 750 watt VTL tube amps. McIntosh knows it is a luxury brand not a performance brand like B&W so that is their market.
Very funny post :). This is the basics - also lots of Focals. McIntosh makes lots of amps and most of them work with single set of binding posts. This amp is SPECIFICALLY designed for this. I have a the Salon2 so I can use it but I have the other problem...I can't afford it 🤕
Wilson speakers have separate cables for upper channels, right? So technically, someone (OCD Mikey maybe) could get a breakout box built that would allow bi-amping. Not sure anyone would recommend doing that though.
I really wish you buy some speakers to try. Maybe 2 separate sets high and low. And just use the crossovers from the Mac's.
That's what a good Lab would do.😊😊
Send them to me
stunning looking Mac Amp but it can only be connected to speakers with 4 terminals ? hopefully McIntosh will loan you some speakers...
Lol hold your breath
XRT2.1K Floor Standing Loudspeakers are on their way..@@jaysaudiolab
Love to hear the Mac Preamp. I’d love the 901s if I could afford it!
Really like the look. I'm sure they sound amazing.
Yes they do
Made the same mistake, purchased a SS amp with the thought of bi amping a pair of Thiel. 3.6's. Then realized they too only had 1 pair of binging post and were not designed for it or bi-wiring. I did not spend a whole lot on the amps, so it did not sting all that hard. Nonetheless it was a difficult thing to explain to my bride. I still hope you will put some McIntosh amplification in your system at some point. You mention looking at the MC2KW, I would suggest the MC1.25KW as an alternative. Still every bit a statement piece with gobs of power and being a single chassis a little easier to handle and place.
Ok
Ono so sorry for the mishap maybe you can send those back for the Macintosh 1.2 KW McIntosh solid state amps to try I think you would absolutely love it
Love those amps but it would be better if you could use the tube or solid state amp separately
@770Stephens says you can use them separately
I'm not big on the McIntosh look overall, but these amps really are beautiful.
Agreed!
I hope we get to hear your impressions of the Sasha V vs DAW's as you have a pair of V's back there :)
Hi Jay
unfortunate u could not test run the Mc901s...was looking for an opinion on the 901s vs DanD Progression M550s monoblocks. Thinking about moving from hybrid to class A.
🙏❤
Jay, I have a wonderful Conrad Johnson tube pre amp and a McIntosh solid state amp and they sound fantastic together. I’m sure you’ll be pleased pairing the Mac preamp with the Apex.
Cool
Nice new intro
That is amazing, so expensive and no budget for an extra pair of connectors and wiring..
Only one solution, you have to get new speakers 🙂
Even the later maggies are no longer bi-ampable, unless of course one takes steps beyond what Magnepan intended.
Ok
A shame you cant hook them up with the 901s, if you can try to get the 1.2kw's. The combo with those mono's and the sonus faber aida's is amazing, i can imagine your wilsons would sound awesome aswell
Ok
Question of the year...
Will a Rel Sixpac Line Array subwoofer system improve the Wilson Audios?
Hmm
Jay is there anyway at all to modify the crossover ' to allow bi amping ? Thanks for the video dam man Nicely built amp for sure
Not that I know of
@jaysaudiolab wish their was away to tap into the oart of the crossover thats for the mids/highs then of course the low end has to be away safely -
It was designed to solve a bi-amping problem
Gorgeous; while a great concept, solid state for bottom, tubes for kids, it strikes me the way when I hear hybrid cars; gasoline for the city, electric for the highway; nope a balls to the wall solid state amplifier and tube preamplifier is the way I would go. Many amps are using tubes for input stage and transistor for the output with middling results. Alternatively all tubes preamp and amp or all solid state; have you tried the VAC pre with the Boulder. The amp magnifies what is in front of it that is why I like a tube pre and solid state amp. Then there are those who say it should be the same brand for both because they both come from the mind of the manufacturer so less danger of a mismatch BUT some manufacturers are great for their amps, preamps not so much and vice versa; end of rant.
This is exciting, especially for those of us who aren’t way up in the stratosphere.
Yep
Jay, i must agree with u that MC901 restricting its use with bi-amp speaker is quite strange. When i first saw your video with MC901, I thought u would use MC901 with other speakers.
I get it
I wouldn't buy the 901s even if I had the money. Don't like the design, and the form factor doesn't work in my space. But the C11000 looks pretty good. Dumb question, though: do you research stuff before you buy it? That would have let you avoid the compatibility issue with the Wilsons. While not obsessed per se, I'm close when it comes to researching a potential purchase.
I heard in your review that one of the tubes is a rectifier tube. It's not. It most likely is a phase inverter, maybe. Mac, uses solid state rectification.
Ok
Jay great amplifier awesome look. Being a tube guy I don't believe this mac has tube rectification . Some macs have it but the 12ax7a is a preamp tube. They probably have solid state rectification maybe full wave rectifier diode bride or configured single diodes for the rectification. 12at7 is a preamp type tube as well.
Cool, thanks
I'm following this with great interest, as I was looking at the McIntosh 451 hybrid monos. I like the idea of tubes for the top end combined with high current solid state power for the bass, and my speakers have two sets of input terminals. Then I thought about the passive crossover slopes in these 3-way speakers and compared them to the choices available on the solid state and tube sections of the amps. Perhaps I'm making too much of this, but a optimal match with the speaker and amp crossovers is difficult/impossible to achieve? It all seems like a ton of tweaking with no promise of good results. Thank you for this informative presentation.
Awesome
You don't need to match the speaker crossover curves. The amps have separate crossovers that are designed to optimize power efficiency. The tube amp has a high-pass filter (set below speaker crossover), and the solid state amp has a low-pass filter (set above speaker crossover). You do need to be careful with the settings but you aren't trying to match anything. Just setting the tube xover at 0 and the ss xover at max, would work perfectly fine, unless the speaker xover was unusually high. This type of arrangement is pretty common but requires two (or four) amps and active crossovers. Mac is just packaging everything together.
What's up, brother? How are you? You are a monster! Thank you for your hard work!
Not all Wilson’s are single amp only, same with Magico. I have no experience w/Rockport speaker but I’d be surprised if they too don’t offer biamplification option. Vast majority of quality speakers are biamp capable. Every speaker in my home is at least biamp capable.
I would however not want an amp that has 4 discreet output stages. Never been a big McIntosh fan due to their unique voicing but I understand & respect folks who enjoy them. Conceptually a 4 output stage amp for channel separation makes little practical sense.
Man that sucks. I feel for you on this one! 👊
Thanks
Those speakers and amplifiers are just dreams for me!!
Anyway, a good pair of top level Focals or B&W could work beautiful with those amps.
Absolutely!
I love my hybrid Mcintosh MA352 hooked up to Sonus Faber Sonetto 3’s. I want the Wilson Sabrina X’s next
Cool
Jay, just a little correction: The Rockport Arrakis has two versions, one of them has to be biamped. The Rockport Lyra can be purchased, at an extra cost, with the biamping option.
Yes, that is correct.
I think the McIntosh amps would pair well with the JBL Project Everest DD67000 speakers. Thinking Woodstock festival in your room.
Reviewing products that come down the food chain from the ultra high end will be very interesting.
Yep
Fantastic amplifiers with the right speaker, ie new B&W 801D4. Audio friend has the smaller pair and just excellent sound.
Those McIntosh MC2KW mono-blocs are designed for things like rock concerts, not for the ultimate in home audio with top of the line Wilson or Magico speakers. The Wilson's and Magico's don't need 2,000 watts RMS into 8 ohms per channel in your listening room. The MA12000 integrated amp (with tube preamp section and solid-state amp section) will sound much better than than those MC2KW's in a high-end listening room. Or get one of the smaller McIntosh monoblocs if you insist on a separate solid state amp.
Uh, yeah, I could have told you that the 901’s require bi-amping - although I couldn’t tell you too much more about it. It does seem odd that the amp is effectively restricted to no-ampable speakers, but that’s the nature of the beast w/two amps in one chassis with each designed for a different load/range.
I’d love to have a pair of these amps connected to a pair of Klipsch La Scalas…
I love the fact your trying to integrate mixed components, like the McIntosh preamp w/ the Gryphon Apex. I can't wait to hear of the results.
Awesome
Can't you use two runs of cables? It's just a matter of connecting a set with bananas plugs and another set with spades on the speaker's binding posts. I don't see any problem in that. Of course, you might not be able to get a full advantage of biwiring, but you can use the amps
Can't be done
By simply looking at a picture of the back of the amp should have made you question if it would work . There’s two separate sets of binding posts, not to mention a diagram showing what’s what.
Love the new intro, Jay
Thank you !
I was wondering earlier why you bought those. Thought maybe you were going to try different speakers. It’s too bad you can’t try those monoblocs with the c11000. That would be a heavenly match.
True
So how does it sound Jay ?
Don't know
I would love to hear the 901's with a set of Maggie 30.7's! Not possible in your room, I get it. But, I can dream.........
They look nice and are good gear 👍👍
This was cool Jay, Really good and brutal look, i would had bought them off you if had that kind of money. Thanks for giving us the great introduction off the McIntosh from you. Thanks Jay.
Jay, does this Amp have the same Green Glow as your PreAmp!😁💪
Yes
You can biamp anything just a new pair of terminals off the crossover and remove it from the main. Definitely mods but from someone who built their speskers this is cake.
Ok
Jay you’re not making any sense on this one brother. Your argument for McIntosh not thinking about speaker brands that have only one set of binding posts is the same as the speaker companies not thinking about having two binding posts. Nobody is wrong, well the manufacturers aren’t wrong. You on the other hand should have done a little homework man. Again how would you even begin to think a Tube (2301) and Solid State (611) could possibly connect to one binding post. They are two power units in one chassis and thus have to be connected to 2 sets of binding posts. I know you’re just pissed and venting and I get that but this one is kind of on you buddy. Also, I think you should try the MC1.25kw as they are fantastic. I would also love to see you eventually fine the MC2kw as those are huge. All the best my friend 😎
Looks beautiful, wonder if the sound matches. Boulder again take note. And uhh, that’s a 10 yard penalty and loss of down on not finding out that ya need biampable speakers lol oh well! I like the combo of solid state amp with tube preamp.
We shall see
You forgot about Focal speakers, can't bi-amp them either,, for a good reason.
Yes you can
same argument the other way that wilson and magico dont put two sets on the back of their speakers.
C’mon…it’s the manufacturer’s fault that you didn’t read the most basic specifications of the amplifier? Reminder that you can’t use an air conditioner to cook dinner
I love your effort, but perhaps you should rename the feed to “The Gryphon Audio Lab” - if you don’t find any other equipment interesting or worthwhile, because your taste is so firmly fixed, then what is your objective here? (You could add a footnote for Boulder). I offer the question with respect and appreciation for your hard work, and know that you do this to make audio more interesting and engaging for all of us
You should try Halcro power amplifier’s. Some say there the best.
Hmm
Damn. Hate it when that happens Jay. Definitely cook the Mac pre for a bit, let's hear what happens. Might be better than ya think. Or not. Who knows.
Like 'em or not..those amps are Beeeautifil!!!
Yes indeed!
Jay have you tried Naim statement with ND555 and two 555dr psu's? that would be a lot of fun
Fully agree. I remember Jay heard the Statements with Focal on a last show. But the source was a bare Ndx2. Strange choice.
@@pierrekeler3635 completely agree that was a strange setup, at that level an nd555 would be a minimum and also set up properly on fraim with advice from a decent dealer
@@damienw9732 i wonder who you are on the Naim forum ? 🤔😀
I have only mentioned the seting up properly part because last time Jay heard this it wasnt set up correctly. anyone who has been able to set up naim gear right will know the difference@@pierrekeler3635
Great looking amplifiers Jay these would have been very interesting to listen to and I like the idea of high current class D on the bottom end and Macintosh tube magic on the top, keep up the good work
More to come!
Beautiful
Just WOW !!! That's unreal.
Bummer about the wasted effort, Jay. I'm also surprised that the big Macs are incompatible with the best and brightest speaker brands. They certainly look phenomenal. I hope you have better luck in the future. I bet you won't make the same mistake twice.
My thoughts exactly
also i'm still interestedin the high end, though i dont have the means....i could saveup fora van den hul cartr just because,but thats about it; i do collect vinyl for50+ years though
Who sold you those should've told you... they are beautiful... Try the 1.25k... they are awesome. I have them for my Magico S5's and my center MC 1.5.
Will do
Jay if you get a chance please try the MC3500 mkII.
K
Yes, you should consider reviewing the MC3500!
how much horsepower?
I believe a single 888 delivers 1.2 horse power !!
Where's the Gryphon amp ?
You should have gotten the 1.25kw monos. They are beasts.
They are
Why would Wilson make a 300k pair of speakers that are not bi ampable? Madness. McIntosh did nothing wrong here, to unbiamp this amplifier would defeat the purpose of the amp. Wilson, not McIntosh, need to fix this issue. Thanks for trying, Jay, good work.
Wilson isn't the only manufacturer to not offer bi-amping. It isn't madness and is done deliberately. There is great effort put into an XVX crossover and bi-amping allows the potential to mess this up.
@@carlosoliveira-rc2xt That’s exactly one of the reasonsI passed on Wilson. They’ve got to do better, no excuses. None.
@@ramsaybolton9099 What? I think you may have misunderstood me. Bi-amping would be detrimental to a well executed speaker design. It may be beneficial for tuning lesser speakers but not well executed ones for which there is no benefit.
@@carlosoliveira-rc2xt no excuses. You put a man on the moon, transplant a heart, clone an animal, and can’t properly bi amp a “well executed” speaker? No excuses, none. No excuses, get it done. Hmm, I think you word “executed” is very apt…. Someone at Wilson needs to be.( not literally of course). No excuses!
@@carlosoliveira-rc2xt Exactly - Daryl Wilson is on record explaining precisely this point!
Think I would lean more towards Vac than Mac.
Ok
Do you think the massive price difference between McIntosh and VAC is justified?
What a strange amplifier. Speakers already have filters dual binding posts or not. Sub woofers have there own build in amps. So way would you build an amp for such a specific use?
Good point!
I like your channel, Jay, but honestly, this is a weird story. A prof like you would not check before purchasing such a super expensive amp whether it fits into your system? If you google, you get plenty of information about the bi amping problem with some brands. As this is a deal breaker point a decent dealer should also give you a hint, just in case…
I bet there is a way to bridge the amps.
Not really
Hey Jay, funny story but as you explained, if it is the purpose of this amp to drive two different chassis with two different technologys than you have nothing to complain about. Just get some 8:22 information about a product before you buy it…. What do you think 😅
Ok
I think you might consider not hooking those up. Return and exchange them for the big powerhouses that your instinct said to go with.
Hahah