No doubt. But in this case those were the tools I had to use and I was glad to be able to practice the skills; however, I’m sure looking forward to having all the new hotness in the RV 14, and to see Blake’s panel get upgraded as well :-)
VORs aren't that hard to use and relying on GPS alone is a single point of failure. With no backup the entire Western world would be one solar storm away from completely loosing the ability to fly IFR.
As a retired FAA controller, I might add that while I’ve given you an assigned heading as vectors for a VOR, it may also be for traffic separation. So that’s another reason for not deviating from the assigned heading.
@Lantz You are correct. I might add that, when workload permits, it really helps when the controller states the reason for the vector. i.e. vector traffic, vector for spacing, vector for intercept etc. Some do some don't.
I’m an enroute faa controller. If I have an aircraft on a heading for a VOR or weather deviation with a “when able direct VOR”, I will restate the heading clearance with the word assigned and reason for vector, thus deleting the “when able direct” part of the clearance. Might not be exact .75 phraseology, but it is clear.
I love how you acknowledge every mistake regardless how small, it all shows how small things can lead to potentially dangerous situations. Great learning experience
This was one of the best EP's ever. So much content on flying skills, emergency skills, survival skills, and so little on NAVIGATION skills. I might be one of the few people who think turning off the VOR stations is a bad idea. When the "Kessler effect" actually happens, you'll be happy you kept up those VOR navigation skills.
Dead reckoning is a must have skill, but seeing you guys getting all excited about a VOR finally coming alive made my night and reminds me of the good old days.
I'm doing my Multi Engine and IFR now, and no one has taught me that technique of the 90 degrees from VOR and using the radials to calculate distance, not even in the theory class. Amazing video as always!
I’ve been a CFII for 21 years, and an airline pilot for 17. I still teach my students both private and instruments without RNAV/glass instruments until the idea of knowing where you are and how to navigate without advanced technology. Once basic navigation skills are mastered by the student, only then do they have the pleasure of being able to push direct. This is a great exercise to keep the mind and skills sharp!
@@DavidLHadley I think back on when I learned IFR, you had to keep the moving map in your head. I think that's totally lost now. So yeah, I agree on the SA comment
Man, I love your videos how you dissect your flight, your mistakes, what you did right, what you could have done better, etc. To some it may seem like you are airing your dirty laundry, but to me, it is informative, I am learning from you, and all of us can think though situations like this for when it happens to them. I love the way the flying community shares our mistakes with each other to make us all better. Every aviation periodical has a section for sharing our errors so that others can learn. You don't see golf magazines doing that, or professional magazines. Maybe they should. I remember flying NDB courses when I learned to fly in the early 90s - not fun, but I think it taught me a lot about tracking a course and wind correction. Oh, and NDB approaches... oh, I don't miss those, but I did one for my IFR checkride and flew one for real to minimums once. It sure makes you appreciate GPS.
I know you are having a relatively friendly conversation, and also I can totally understand his point, but I felt like the gentleman who you were speaking with could not fathom why you wanted to use the old tech. GA is definitely a situation you want to take advantage of every tool you can, but I can totally understand you Steve. Sometimes it is fun (and good!) to challenge yourself, especially in a safe and comfortable environment.
It's important to venture outside of your comfort zone, but the problem many pilots face is that as they push their limits, their comfort zone grows to a dangerous size without their having noticed. That's not what's happening here, but it is a valid concern that people have.
Steve, thank you for this episode! Long time follower and patron here. I enjoy every single video you produce, but I especially like it when you go "back to basic" with this content which I (a weekend warrior) really relate to. This type of video was why I started following you in the first place. All the best and good luck with your RV build (also very interesting). Cheers from Norway.
Awesome thanks! I need to get this one posted over there in Patreon - I really appreciate the support so I can make nerdy deep dive content like this, and not play the “click-bait game” which more and more creators that depend on ad revenue are tending to do.
I'm coming back to this older video as I find myself about to frequently fly a non-GPS plane that we might be getting back to IFR current. Lots of VFR practice approaches in my future, but this video was a great reminder of the workload for enroute flying. Thank you for sharing!
Just starting my IFR and it is a relief that the small mistakes you guys are making are so easily taken in stride, called out and digested for the better response. I found myself making so many small errors (mostly tied to not knowing the avionics) that I was losing confidence in my ability to be a proficient IFR pilot. Should have my Searey IFR certified by Dec and will do most of my training in my plane with familiar avionics.
The very first time I flew a GPS approach in 2006, I lost RAIM and lost all GPS information. A known GPS degradation a few months later contributed to a T-6 formation checkride failure due to going out of the MOA (GPS map showed us in the MOA). GPS isn't always perfect.
Ah, my favorite way to figure out distance to a VOR! Violate your clearance by turning 90 degrees off course for a few minutes and then either make a 180 to get back where you were or choose a different radial which you also weren't cleared for. :D And yes, I really enjoyed this video!
@@Rodhern thanks. I realized it was an off route VOR that was already 90 degrees. But then just triangulate and use the map. I hated this when I was working on my instrument rating 30 years ago and came up with that observation. I did forget one part though: "...only to discover that if you hadn't turned off course, you'd be there by now."
I laughed while reading this too - While editing, it occurred to me to spell out the paradox as you've described it. But yeah, in our case the VOR being right there 90 degrees beside us was an easy opportunity to do the exercise.
This is good case of plan for the best but prepare for the worst. It's best to put yourself in these situations when you can get out if needed. Don't let the first time your experiencing something be a situation you didn't put yourself willingly
Wow I love this content! You hurt my head (even being an IFR pilot) but love how you tired to do it old school. Not sure what I would do if we didn't have GPS!!
Really great video! Love that you asked for vectors 2 min in the video. To me, there are 2 reasons why this kind of practice is important. First, you could find yourself as an IFR certified pilot inadvertently flying into IFR in a non-IFR-certified aircraft. Second reason is that the GPS fails or GPS itself isn't available. It happens. My only negative observation is that foreflight is NOT the same as a paper chart, unless you turn the GPS of the device off. It's like practicing IFR flight in VFR without a hood. You can't tell your brain to ignore the position information. If you want to practice navigation without GPS, you can download PDF or TIFF of the charts for free, and use them on the tablet w/o geo-reference. (At least this is possible with FAA, not sure about TCCA). If you do that, you can have your right seater on foreflight for SA. Final thought, if I were on vectors from ATC, I'd try to plug those in the autopilot. Even the simple old ones should do a heading off the DG, I believe. Steam gauge planes will be around for a long time, and even the fancy things devolve to steam gauge in an electrical failure, mostly, so these are GREAT skills to have.
So one thing I consistently saw in this video I'd correct is the VOR usage... You _CAN_ accept a direct to VOR fix you can't yet get a signal from... _IF_ you have a VOR behind you that you can get and you can make a radial _FROM_ the VOR behind you _TO_ the VOR in front of you, it does not have to be called out as an airway. You don't have to take a vector for that. You should double-check you are above the minimum sector altitude in the IFR chart, but ATC should be doing that as well.
Very humbling Steve as I SLOWLY work towards my IFR as you have and I REALIZE just how much “I” don’t know as YOU demonstrate how much you do. Kudos to you and to your training as well as your instructors for your knowledge, skills and for sharing. You’re rocking it buddy😉 and I thank you and your instructors for sharing the knowledge and need for these skills. I hope to have you visit us at KWAY one day. Sincerely, Dan C. - President of Greene County Flying Club KWAY.
@@FlightChops Oh no.. That is sad. I had the chance to work in Vancouver B.C for 6 month last year. It was just awesome! Hope you can make your visit here asap :)
Great video! Really enjoyed seeing the differences between flying with an iPad and flying with radio nav aids! I'm exclusively flying iPad since the plane I fly doesn't have radio nav aids...but I try stay currentish with Flight Sim :P I also think it's a testament to GPS!
I don’t think the long list of NOTAMS is the problem. I think it’s the lack of emphasis on a full flight plan. Remember your first flight plan in PPL, with so much detail on every point, altitude, time, eta. Now with foreflight we just use the “expected atc route” and file. If you use your flight plan and then check each VOR or NDB on that flight plan, you would have a better chance to catch those ones that are out. 1800-wxbrief has a map view of the notams that works pretty good.
Now we're into the meat of it... I'll be watching this (and subsequent episodes) several times. I wasn't aware that you were working with Jason on TFP Ground School... that's pretty cool. Once I'm flying more frequently I'll be taking advantage of that and many other currency resources. As for actual currency, I got an hour in the sim and an hour in the pattern; ten circuits brushed off some dust. No further word on the engine yet, but the funding is in place. Finishing wheel fairings and I'll be prepping the fuselage for paint soon.
Hi guys. I am an IFE and i liked this video. I am sure that the debrief was longuer than this video. I wanna add two things: first when you are under radar vectoring, the assigned heading may be chosen by the atc for separation. Second, decision making is very important in this situation: the fuel quantity should be checked again if you change your route. Under IMC and with a single engine aircraft, without certified GPS... you should have a good crew ressource management and go back to the old school (paper charts and E6B). If you have any doubt: GO BACK HOME and abort the mission.
just a note to your sponsors... before Flightchops: maps, 1999 vintage Garmin GPS II Plus, old softcom headset in my Cessna 150.....After Flightchops: Maps (still) but with a New Ipad and Foreflight, Bose A20 headset, and, as I write this, in my camper behind the hangar at KK7, awaiting some tailwheel training so Luke Penner and I can fly over to Morden Mb to pick up my New (to me) RV6! keep inspiring us muggles :)
This comment right here really made my morning Bill! I really appreciate you letting me know that the tasteful integration of supportive sponsors into the related stories has resonated with you. It is super rewarding to make this content and be a part of having a positive impact on the aviation community. I don't aim the material at gathering millions of views - I'm happy to focus on quality and reach people with something relevant. Thanks in large part to Patreon supporters and the sponsors that seem to "get it", this crazy thing has continued to be sustainable for going on 8 years now.
@@FlightChops I like the philosophy of "always learning" you convey, (I learn something nearly every video), this morning I get "Hands on" with the Citabria and possibly this afternoon with my RV6... feeling excited and nervous at the same time.
@@FlightChops oh... I forgot... the bag full of GoPro's and all the mounting stuff that goes with it, and the Wondershare software... getting a new appreciation for the work that goes into the content you create!
My flights are mostly IFR in a light twin. I prefer, by a lot, the flight brief generated by FltPlan. It is concise, to the point of relevancy and a whole section specifically about navigation aid status. Foreflight flight brief presents data, fltPlan presents information. Plus, a section will display notam changes within the last 12 hours.
One of the things I have been most impressed with ForeFlight, is how much they evolve and listen to feedback to make the interface better, and add features. I suspect they'll get better in this regard as well.
@@FlightChops Perhaps. I have asked them precisely that a few years back, and nothing really happened. Now that they are owned by Boeing, I would not hold my breath. Nice eye candy, however impractical. A simple test, make an IFR flight say from Montreal, to Washington with an alternate in Toronto. I had 126 pages of notams in FF. 99% is useless. The trick that a pilot is legally bound to is relevancy and chances are one will skip over an important one. This is what I am talking about. Garmin Pilot is not much better, in contrast I have 3 pages in FP. I guess to each its own, but congrats for the work anyhow. But be thorough like the rest of the work you do and try the example I suggested in both apps (FF & FP) and let us know your findings.
@@Montrachetvert I share your frustration, but to me it's more the FAA than the vendor. NOTAMs have no priority level, and most, as you point out, are nearly zero value. Friend of mine has an example of what would happen if the FAA made highway signs. It's a picture of a giant size that says "The corners of this sign are sharp!" and in tiny little letters at the bottom it says "the bridge is out."
If you’re high enough, you’re always radar vector equipped. Even though I’m an old school guy, I never fly without a GPS, however. Rather not use the #2 Ticonderoga…now a course line plotted on ForeFlight.
From an IFR PPL, good job with the learning moments and actively trying to understand what you did incorrectly. Remember when IFR, the controller is responsible for maintaining separation between aircraft. You should not deviate from the flight plan or directives unless it is an emergency. When you accepted the routing direct to the VOR without a way to accurately navigate there, you accepted the responsibility of maintaining your own navigation without the means to do so, putting other traffic at risk. The controllers likely would have vectored you to stay within VOR coverage or radar coverage otherwise. When in doubt, communicate to the controllers.
Just curious (not sure it pertains to the specific situation though), if you are VMC and fairly sure to remain well so, are you allowed to navigate direct using visual reference to the surface?
@@Rodhern Not specifically on an IFR flight plan. You can cancel your IFR flight plan and proceed VFR as you described. You are then required to maintain VFR cloud clearances.
What is the power of the YEA (Empress) VOR? Is it listed in the CFS? I have trained in Canada and the UK, and one of the things that the UK emphasised was that the power of a VOR or NDB is often more restrictive than the (almost) line-of-sight restriction. As a result, we were trained to always look it up before the flight.
I like your videos. On a technical note, I think you should consider using a video stabilization package like Mercalli to get rid of the "jello" effect, particularly in the shots from the rear of the cabin looking forward. The effect is pronounced and distracting.
Thanks for the tip. It is a challenge to jump around from plane to plane and find the best camera mounting options in everything. I edit with FCPX. Iw ill look into that or other plug ins. I am also likely upgrading to Hero9 soon, which should help (that was a hero5)
@@FlightChops I've used the ProDAD software on both Mac and Windows and it's pretty effective. I'm sure there are a number of other packages that get rid of the CMOS distortion artifacts. I use mostly ProDrenalin to remove lens distortion and (I shoot tennis matches from back of the court on the fence top and like the baseline straight in my final videos).
Remember kids, GPS can have regional outages too, as well as signal interference and jamming. It’s owned by the US government and can be disabled in a national security event. Yes, VORs are being decommissioned (there were al supposed to be all off in 2010) but they were extended because they do offer redundancy. If you were to fly IMC into a region where someone is jamming the signal, what’s the plan?
AOPA says: “Pilots who encounter an interruption of GPS navigation that affects flight safety or who have related flight-control issues can say the phrase “Stop buzzer” to air traffic control. That phraseology should initiate the process of interrupting the testing to restore navigation signal reception.” www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2019/february/27/more-gps-interference-exercises-planned
The jerks in Nevada are always doing massive jamming events with like 3-4 day windows on the NOTAM, and I'm just waiting for it to result in someone flying into the side of a mountain under IFR. The jam areas are enormous, typically covering several states. The NOTAM also never specifies the exact time and duration so it's often impossible to diagnose the issue as jamming-- you'd just get a red X on position data. Did your GPS antenna fall off or is it malicious? If you do recognize a GPS failure coincident with a NOTAM and it's at all affecting the safety of your flight, the magic words to say to ATC are "stop buzzer". And keep your VORs safety checked and tuned just in case. Oh hey, breaking GPS also breaks ADS-B Out, which makes collision avoidance that much more unsafe! Hope you weren't leaning too heavily on your iPad or GTN to help you see and avoid traffic. There was a big problem with an Atlantic Ocean military jamming operation in 2019, just offshore. "Oh yeah, we're going to jam a 400nm radius encompassing all of Georgia, North and South Carolina, and most of Florida LOLOL." Regardless of the NOTAM, such behavior is incredibly irresponsible.
My job means I spend a lot of time looking at NOTAMs all over the world and what I notice is Canada has a lot of NAVAIDs going unserviceable even if for short periods of time.
Interesting - curious as to what your job is. And if you have any insights about how not to go cross eyed while trying to read through a zillion NOTAMS :)
I work for a company that produces navigation data. Must add that I have never compared the number of U/S nav aids per month with other countries so perhaps the apparent large number is just due to the size of the country. I would recommend caffeine. Take a break if you feel you’re skim reading or not digesting the info. Hopefully we will see products that can at least prioritise or highlight NOTAM’s of greater importance.
Even my school's trainer aircraft have Garmin GPS in them. Sure, I'm fairly confident I'll be able to navigate our practice area, but its a great fallback.
Very cool to practice in a safe environment. If this was actual IMC, I would hope you would use all resources avail. even if it doesn't challenge you as much. The main goal of any flight is coming home safe and using all the tools avail., not to boost your ego and show off. IMC flying is so much safer these days with all the advanced tech. Some see it as cheating, but that is ego and wanting to feel superior. At the end of the day, if you can do the same things with tech. easier and safer, then that is a win. Soon, GPS will be all there is for Nav. , if we are lucky to even keep that. At some point in time, it may all be automated and the human is only there to monitor systems.
I didn't read this as ego or showing off at all. To me, this is about becoming comfortable with the old school methods, that are sometimes the only methods available. As I'm sure you are aware, you can't legally navigate in a non-emergency situation using a non-certified device, and there are thousands of aircraft that aren't equipped with GPS. I fly in them, and they're completely safe. In addition, GPS can and does fail.
For the few people who like me fly with a Jepp 'whizz wheel', there is a way to work out the distance to a VOR with a single twist of the 'whizz wheel' and without having to turn 90 degrees to the VOR, as required by Jason's method. It is probably too challenging to do while flying, but is a fun exercise for a co-pilot. Don't know if you can post a picture to these comments somehow, but here is a textual description. You use the wind side of the computer in the following way. (Jepp only, as other brands have a different wind side). Suppose to start with, the station is 30 degrees off to your left. Suppose you fly 4 miles, and the station is now 35 degrees off to your left. To calculate the range to the station, you line up the change in radial (5 degrees in this example) under the distance flown (in this case 4 miles) and then read off the current distance to the station above the original offset (in this case 30 degrees). In this example, that is approximately 23 miles. It requires a single twist of the whizz wheel and can be done single-handed, but probably only really of academic interest.
A more likely scenario to use the technique is intercepting a radial to or from a vor (or waypoint). From the example above, say the radial you want to intercept is 5 degrees away and the station or waypoint is 23 miles away, then you can calculate that a 30 degree intercept will require 4 miles to intercept, but a 45 degree intercept will require slightly over 2.8 miles.
Excellent video and lots of good food-for-thought. But when you took off you had no idea that Empress was virtually due east and 090 would take you close enough to resume VOR navigation later? GPS and electronic maps are wonderful but have turned many travelers into follow the voice-and-magenta-line navigators with little situational awareness.
Glad you enjoyed it. And yes I had an idea of roughly where the VOR was, but my understanding is that IFR is not about roughly knowing where you are... so if I wasn’t sure I was flying to the fix, asking for a vector to actually get me straight to it was the call.
I'd add an F to the other one... Food... You never know what you ll be eating. Maybe that s why airlines never give the same meal to captain and first?
It’s very sad that this is even a thing. Piloting has dramatically changed in the last twenty years! It used to be a Aviate navigate communicate. Now it’s push buttons, check computer, check the other computer then communicate 😒
I am curious - as a sailor I have to correct for magnetic variation and the deviation specific to my boat. If ATC gives you a vector, is it magnetic or true? If true how do you figure out the variation which would change significantly on a long flight? Thx.
Andrew is right of course, ATC gives out vectors magnetic. Runway designations are magnetic, within a degree or so. Aircraft charts show local variation. Every plane I've been in has a card that lists wet compass deviation for different cardinal directions. If you're flying 'steam gauges" (analog) IFR like in this video, the pilot periodically sets the gyro compass to match the wet compass, as the gyro compass drifts a bit. Believe all glass panels display in magnetic. Believe they have special procedures for flying near the poles, but that's out of my experience level. Here in NY variation does change quite a bit from one side of the state to the other, but it's no problem to keep track.
@@tomsmith3045 That's a very nice explanation. Just to add on the polar navigation bit: modern avionics will initiate an automatic change from MAG reference to TRU reference when within certain defined areas near the North magnetic Pole. These areas are usually defined "compass unreliable" or "compass useless areas". Within those areas, runways are generally referenced to TRUE north too
@@FlightChops then old but trustful dead reckoning & pilotage which i almost forget :( damm... developement of tech is great thing but it makes me forget too many things...
Haha - yes cool. But in this case, we were also over the prairies at ~9,000' (everything below looks the same, flat land in all directions - and in several cases over top of a solid overcast layer making looking for ground features (even when featureless) a moot point..
Stress is a good one. I guess you can couple stress and fatigue. I always treated fatigue as "I've had enough sleep, but it's been a long day already and I shouldn't be continuing to fly".
@@FlightChops To each their own. Flying can already be quite stressful at times so adding the stress of daily life ( work, finances, relationships ) can be far too distracting to be a safe and effective pilot. But yeah...sleep is important too.
@@FlightChops When I moved into the "new age" of navigation, I got a Mini 4 and because of you and a couple others, upgraded to the Pivot this Christmas and I'm so happy that I did it. The size of the Mini is perfect for fitting in any cockpit without blocking the panel or a lot of the view depending on what I'm flying.
Not sure what else you could have done when you went out of radar coverage and did not yet have the VOR in range. I presume you were in class E airspace, and as you were in VMC, you can fly VFR over the top with an instrument rating. I guess you could have switched your flight plan to VFR and then flown at a VFR altitude. If you had been in IMC though, I don't see how you could have complied with your clearance and I'm no sure what the right thing would have been to do.
@@blake.crosby What should you say to the controller? Unable to comply with IFR and unable to give position reports until within range of VOR. Request to fly heading xxx until able to receive VOR?
Might be useful to request a climb, if weather and aircraft performance allows. Often the only thing keeping you from receiving a working station is a thousand feet, and it also makes you easier for ATC to see you on radar. Out in the western US it's common on some direct routings to be out of radio contact, let alone radar, for 30 or 40 nm. When IFR, ATC will block out the entire leg+altitude for you if you're unable to climb higher and they're unable to ensure separation with radar. This coincidentally is the standard procedure when radar fails at airports-- aircraft can still be separated, it's just a lot less efficient! But the whole IFR system depends on each pilot being responsible for navigation-- whether that means certified GPS, tracking a VOR radial or DME arcs, flying by pilotage if visibility permits (remember, a visual approach still falls within instrument procedures), or flying an assigned heading on dead reckoning. If ATC knows you're not GPS equipped they shouldn't give you impossible routings (did you file with the correct equipment suffix?) You can always reject the clearance with "unable". You can tell them "standby" while you figure out where that unexpected fix is (or ask them to tell you where it is in relation to other fixes on the chart). You can ask for a hold at a specific fix. And as a last resort you can also ask for a clearance back via the way you came, turn around, and sort it out on the ground. Short of it though, it's your responsibility to not get yourself into a situation where you're unable to safely navigate. This is where planning is critical, and planning is something we too easily skimp on in the age of GPS and magenta lines. Are you familiar with all navaids along the route of flight? Even if you primarily fly with your fancy Garmin, have you validated correct operation of your VORs within the last 30 days? If you're down to dead reckoning in hard IMC and have lost all navigation aids, what was the sequence of events that led to such a dire situation? Can you safely continue the flight? Was there perhaps a point you should have just turned around and called it a day?
GNSS Is great but it can get you in hot water real quick if you're IFR and something goes wrong with it - when you're in the thick of it and RAIM pops up or, you're flying in mountainous terrain it's extremely reassuring to be able to look down at your already tuned VOR and see you're tracking safely. Like any good part of airmanship - don't practice it because you plan on doing VOR approaches or nav, practice it so you can. Same as stalls, spins or any other non normals. Can't imagine anyone pretending they don't need to practice stalls because they'll never stall, same guy who's never forgotten their flap, gear, dipstick and knows the GNSS works all the time without flaw.
The rules around using NON-certified equipment need to be understood.... You CAN use the iPad and Foreflight, but, there are rules, and you have to verify position with CERTIFIED equipment... However, I just said, YOU CAN USE the non-certified equipment. Same as using a paper chart....
ALSO - and this is very important, YOU CAN use dead reckoning, backed up with position verification via Navaid fixes, paper charts, foreFlight, other non-certified sources... filing direct in non-GPS aircraft is frowned upon by ATC, unless they have good radar coverage... but it is a viable option. Of course, doing approaches is a whole other ball game, and in NO circumstances should you EVER navigate an approach using non-certified equipment.
Fair enough, but I wanted to address that feedback which came in the last video regarding the iPads as related to “no certified GPS”. How would you suggest I word that to make the point?
Haha - yeah - But not if you're not at 9,000' over the prairies where there are no visual references... or over a solid cloud deck flying IFR, as we were much of the time for that one. But truthfully, I considered myself under the hood even when not in IMC conditions for that flight, so I wanted to do everything assuming I had no visual references outside.
Is there no such thing as ADF navigation anymore? I'm retired -- and surprised. and what about good old fashioned pilotage? I guess no one even knows what that is. I was a ferry pilot for Cessna and Piper in the 60's. Commercial and instrument rated, of course. I never owned (or used) a headset. Never owned or used an autopilot. When my destination was 5 hours away, my left hand never left the control column; and I was expected to hold heading and altitude MANUALLY. When I watch these TH-cam videos on modern flying, I seriously wonder whether or not there are any pure pilots left. I'm not saying I was something special ..ALL pilots had those skills in those days because few of us (less than one out of a hundred) could afford an autopilot let alone a transponder or headset. Most of us could barely afford avgas at 24 cents a gallon. There were no satellites, so we guessed at the weather, and prayed a lot. Like many guys today I got my commercial in a 150; my IFR in a 172. I'll never forget reporting into Vero Beach and being tossed my papers: Deliver a Cherokee Six to Vancouver, WA. Great! I told a couple of other line pilots I had never flown "a six" before. No problem. Take off and landing, LOW PITCH-HIGH RPM -- dial back the manifold pressure to whatever it says for climb-out and cruising in the manual ...nothing to it. (I had the same scenario at Cessna with a Skylane RG. Read the manual, ya dumbbell -- it's all there in black and white. Put a sticker on the control column so I'd remember to put the gear down. But here's the best part: Vero Beach to Vancouver in the middle of January, over the Rockies -- and just for kicks, the guy who bought the Cherokee in Vancouver had his own radios ...so the new one, the one I AM delivering over the Rockies in winter has NO radios at all, and NO navigational instruments ...not even a gyro horizon. Just a compass, needle and ball, VSI, ASI, and altimeter. Have a nice day. What I did have was a ton of charts, and the rudimentary skills to read terrain visually and find it on the charts as I went along my way. I did these things routinely for thousands of hours without a mishap. Read light signals from the tower when I had no radios -- which was frequently in those days. And for all that, I was absolutely nothing special. BUT when I see programs about flying disasters, I am appalled at the incompetence! I mean, these guys or gals lose the horizon, GOD FORBID, it's practically a death sentence if their auto-pilot or computer fails! They're not pilots anymore -- they're computer monitors! If their computer goes down in bad weather, it's like a death sentence. Guys like Sullenberger are all gone. Can ANYONE fly a plane anymore from coast to coast in bad weather without radios, without GPS, VOR, ADF, or an autopilot? I seriously doubt it. And that's fine ...I mean, who cares, right? Except when things go really wrong IN THE MIDDLE of a flight, and those skills are not to be found, everyone is in jeopardy. It's a different world, I know ...and I have become irrelevant. My opinions no longer matter. And I'm okay with that.
I didn't count on the ADF, because at best the instrument was unreliable, and at worst there were very few NDBs along the route. As for pilotage, I assume you mean VFR navigating? This was an IFR flight, much of which was above a solid layer, or over the prairies with no discernible landmarks. But that's a moot point, as I wanted to do it as if I was IMC. Your war stories are impressive, but there is zero chance I'd consider taking on those risks, and some of what you describe is actually illegal today. Regardless, I am a firm believer in strong stick and rudder fundamentals, and I fly a T6 / Harvard when I'm not trying to fly IFR... can I get some points for that? :) th-cam.com/video/utM_2xyW7kY/w-d-xo.html
I have been instrument rated for 38years....well before any iPad or GPS and it’s actually not that hard. And in Australia we have never had many ground stations to use. Today’s pilots are so spoilt... most can’t even do simple maths.
Please move your content to Rumble I am deleting my TH-cam account due to TH-cam silencing those who do not support leftist, anarchists’ and Biden voters. Please put your great channel on Rumble where the 1st Amendment is honoured and I can still watch your excellent content.
Foreflight web briefing is awesome. Ctrl+F and search for the word "unserviceable" or your NAVAIDS abbreviations/frequencies and it helps find broken stuff. I'll usually scan through the NOTAMS looking for anything that really stands out after that.
All VOR stations are going down. Antiquated technology is going the way of the dodo birds. Good riddance I say..
No doubt. But in this case those were the tools I had to use and I was glad to be able to practice the skills; however, I’m sure looking forward to having all the new hotness in the RV 14, and to see Blake’s panel get upgraded as well :-)
@@FlightChops Does equipment like Garmin G1000 have options for dual INS that is IFR certified?
Are all vor stations going down in Canada? They are removing a large part of the network in the US but keeping enough up.
VORs aren't that hard to use and relying on GPS alone is a single point of failure. With no backup the entire Western world would be one solar storm away from completely loosing the ability to fly IFR.
@@meistro32 no
As a retired FAA controller, I might add that while I’ve given you an assigned heading as vectors for a VOR, it may also be for traffic separation. So that’s another reason for not deviating from the assigned heading.
I am an IFE sir, and i noticed that. I agree with you and i think that the instructor should have mentioned that.
@Lantz You are correct. I might add that, when workload permits, it really helps when the controller states the reason for the vector. i.e. vector traffic, vector for spacing, vector for intercept etc. Some do some don't.
I’m an enroute faa controller. If I have an aircraft on a heading for a VOR or weather deviation with a “when able direct VOR”, I will restate the heading clearance with the word assigned and reason for vector, thus deleting the “when able direct” part of the clearance. Might not be exact .75 phraseology, but it is clear.
I love how you acknowledge every mistake regardless how small, it all shows how small things can lead to potentially dangerous situations. Great learning experience
Thanks Isaac :)
That's the goal with the channel - to share the raw learning moments, and stay humble about it.
This was one of the best EP's ever. So much content on flying skills, emergency skills, survival skills, and so little on NAVIGATION skills. I might be one of the few people who think turning off the VOR stations is a bad idea. When the "Kessler effect" actually happens, you'll be happy you kept up those VOR navigation skills.
Dead reckoning is a must have skill, but seeing you guys getting all excited about a VOR finally coming alive made my night and reminds me of the good old days.
I'm doing my Multi Engine and IFR now, and no one has taught me that technique of the 90 degrees from VOR and using the radials to calculate distance, not even in the theory class. Amazing video as always!
Glad to hear you got some good value out of this one.
I’ve been a CFII for 21 years, and an airline pilot for 17. I still teach my students both private and instruments without RNAV/glass instruments until the idea of knowing where you are and how to navigate without advanced technology. Once basic navigation skills are mastered by the student, only then do they have the pleasure of being able to push direct.
This is a great exercise to keep the mind and skills sharp!
Great point, you can still do VOR to VOR navigation in a G1000
@@bruceme101 Very true, but the MFD displays provide a lot of “automatic” situational awareness...
@@DavidLHadley I think back on when I learned IFR, you had to keep the moving map in your head. I think that's totally lost now. So yeah, I agree on the SA comment
Man, I love your videos how you dissect your flight, your mistakes, what you did right, what you could have done better, etc. To some it may seem like you are airing your dirty laundry, but to me, it is informative, I am learning from you, and all of us can think though situations like this for when it happens to them. I love the way the flying community shares our mistakes with each other to make us all better. Every aviation periodical has a section for sharing our errors so that others can learn. You don't see golf magazines doing that, or professional magazines. Maybe they should.
I remember flying NDB courses when I learned to fly in the early 90s - not fun, but I think it taught me a lot about tracking a course and wind correction. Oh, and NDB approaches... oh, I don't miss those, but I did one for my IFR checkride and flew one for real to minimums once. It sure makes you appreciate GPS.
Thanks Jason! Yeah, I'm happy to share mistakes and learn along with the community.
Old school 6 pack! That's all I got. Foreflight is an amazing whole new world to me! Good stuff!
Yes sir! Great to be able to do it this way, but good gosh it's not easy.
Always a pleasure to see Denis. He is a real awesome aviator and great guy overall.
I know you are having a relatively friendly conversation, and also I can totally understand his point, but I felt like the gentleman who you were speaking with could not fathom why you wanted to use the old tech. GA is definitely a situation you want to take advantage of every tool you can, but I can totally understand you Steve. Sometimes it is fun (and good!) to challenge yourself, especially in a safe and comfortable environment.
I wouldn't use old school IFR, since there are so many more chances of being violated, but VFR can be fun to go old school every once in a while
It's important to venture outside of your comfort zone, but the problem many pilots face is that as they push their limits, their comfort zone grows to a dangerous size without their having noticed. That's not what's happening here, but it is a valid concern that people have.
INTERESTING math and position reference, alot to remember ! That would be VERY busy in actual IMC, Practice, practice, practice Steve.
Steve, thank you for this episode! Long time follower and patron here. I enjoy every single video you produce, but I especially like it when you go "back to basic" with this content which I (a weekend warrior) really relate to. This type of video was why I started following you in the first place. All the best and good luck with your RV build (also very interesting). Cheers from Norway.
Awesome thanks! I need to get this one posted over there in Patreon - I really appreciate the support so I can make nerdy deep dive content like this, and not play the “click-bait game” which more and more creators that depend on ad revenue are tending to do.
I'm coming back to this older video as I find myself about to frequently fly a non-GPS plane that we might be getting back to IFR current. Lots of VFR practice approaches in my future, but this video was a great reminder of the workload for enroute flying. Thank you for sharing!
Fellow filmmaker/pilot here… just wanted to say that the arrow icon flashing with the morse code was a clever detail! Kudos :)
Just starting my IFR and it is a relief that the small mistakes you guys are making are so easily taken in stride, called out and digested for the better response. I found myself making so many small errors (mostly tied to not knowing the avionics) that I was losing confidence in my ability to be a proficient IFR pilot. Should have my Searey IFR certified by Dec and will do most of my training in my plane with familiar avionics.
16:20 I like how your pal breaks things down. I need a mentor like that!
The very first time I flew a GPS approach in 2006, I lost RAIM and lost all GPS information. A known GPS degradation a few months later contributed to a T-6 formation checkride failure due to going out of the MOA (GPS map showed us in the MOA). GPS isn't always perfect.
This is a great video Chops. I enjoy old school flying. Lot of times in Microsoft Flight Sim I'll turn off the GPS and go old school navigation.
Very cool that you're doing that in the sim - good idea.
Such a great video. This really helps with the last bit of my IFR training, and also if I end up buying an IFR plane without a certified gps
Ah, my favorite way to figure out distance to a VOR! Violate your clearance by turning 90 degrees off course for a few minutes and then either make a 180 to get back where you were or choose a different radial which you also weren't cleared for. :D
And yes, I really enjoyed this video!
To be fair the VOR in question was almost 90deg to the intended track (it was not the inbound one).
I did chuckle reading your comment though.
@@Rodhern thanks. I realized it was an off route VOR that was already 90 degrees. But then just triangulate and use the map.
I hated this when I was working on my instrument rating 30 years ago and came up with that observation. I did forget one part though: "...only to discover that if you hadn't turned off course, you'd be there by now."
I laughed while reading this too - While editing, it occurred to me to spell out the paradox as you've described it.
But yeah, in our case the VOR being right there 90 degrees beside us was an easy opportunity to do the exercise.
@@FlightChops Perhaps you should suggest that Jason change the lesson to use your situation...
This is good case of plan for the best but prepare for the worst. It's best to put yourself in these situations when you can get out if needed. Don't let the first time your experiencing something be a situation you didn't put yourself willingly
This was an amazing video Steve.
Steve outstanding IFR training video great team and training work !
Love this series! Can’t wait for more!
I just bought a mooney with no gps and im gonna go ifr from indy to oklahoma. This video made me much more confident about it! Thank you!!
Awesome! Report back about how it goes!
@@FlightChops I will for sure sir. Should be end of this week, or early next week I go pick her up!
Amazing nuggets here. Fantastic, as usual!
Keep up, Steve!
Very interesting lesson! Especially for me currently doing my instrument rating. Thanks for the de-brief! Best regards from LOWG
Glad it was helpful! Keep in touch through your training - it's a real bear to get through, but man does it feel great to complete that rating!
Wow I love this content! You hurt my head (even being an IFR pilot) but love how you tired to do it old school. Not sure what I would do if we didn't have GPS!!
Glad you enjoyed it Zach!
Really great video! Love that you asked for vectors 2 min in the video. To me, there are 2 reasons why this kind of practice is important. First, you could find yourself as an IFR certified pilot inadvertently flying into IFR in a non-IFR-certified aircraft. Second reason is that the GPS fails or GPS itself isn't available. It happens. My only negative observation is that foreflight is NOT the same as a paper chart, unless you turn the GPS of the device off. It's like practicing IFR flight in VFR without a hood. You can't tell your brain to ignore the position information. If you want to practice navigation without GPS, you can download PDF or TIFF of the charts for free, and use them on the tablet w/o geo-reference. (At least this is possible with FAA, not sure about TCCA). If you do that, you can have your right seater on foreflight for SA. Final thought, if I were on vectors from ATC, I'd try to plug those in the autopilot. Even the simple old ones should do a heading off the DG, I believe. Steam gauge planes will be around for a long time, and even the fancy things devolve to steam gauge in an electrical failure, mostly, so these are GREAT skills to have.
Insights and thoughts appreciated - agreed on all counts
So one thing I consistently saw in this video I'd correct is the VOR usage... You _CAN_ accept a direct to VOR fix you can't yet get a signal from... _IF_ you have a VOR behind you that you can get and you can make a radial _FROM_ the VOR behind you _TO_ the VOR in front of you, it does not have to be called out as an airway. You don't have to take a vector for that. You should double-check you are above the minimum sector altitude in the IFR chart, but ATC should be doing that as well.
Thanks for the insights Bruce. This is why I appreciate this community - constructive feedback on these videos is always helpful.
Very humbling Steve as I SLOWLY work towards my IFR as you have and I REALIZE just how much “I” don’t know as YOU demonstrate how much you do. Kudos to you and to your training as well as your instructors for your knowledge, skills and for sharing. You’re rocking it buddy😉 and I thank you and your instructors for sharing the knowledge and need for these skills. I hope to have you visit us at KWAY one day. Sincerely, Dan C. - President of Greene County Flying Club KWAY.
LOVE this video and some hard core IFR discussion.
I might be late to this, but FlightChops always makes my day better!
Thanks steve for this amazing videos! Cheers from south Argentina!
Glad you like them!
Love this series! Greets from Germany :)
Awesome! Thank you! I am SO gutted we had to cancel visiting Germany last year. Aiming to get there ASAP
@@FlightChops Oh no.. That is sad. I had the chance to work in Vancouver B.C for 6 month last year. It was just awesome! Hope you can make your visit here asap :)
Great video! Really enjoyed seeing the differences between flying with an iPad and flying with radio nav aids! I'm exclusively flying iPad since the plane I fly doesn't have radio nav aids...but I try stay currentish with Flight Sim :P I also think it's a testament to GPS!
For sure Tim - being able to use sims and connect with ForeFlight really does allow for a lot of valuable work to be done at home.
Loved it is episode! Keep them coming!
Great video, thank you!
I don’t think the long list of NOTAMS is the problem. I think it’s the lack of emphasis on a full flight plan. Remember your first flight plan in PPL, with so much detail on every point, altitude, time, eta. Now with foreflight we just use the “expected atc route” and file. If you use your flight plan and then check each VOR or NDB on that flight plan, you would have a better chance to catch those ones that are out. 1800-wxbrief has a map view of the notams that works pretty good.
Admittedly, a great job.
sick flow Steve! (cool aviator hair)
Great video!! Love you went old school to keep those skills sharp..
Thanks 👍
- this was a fun challenge to take on for sure.
Wow, great stuff!
Glad you think so!
Now we're into the meat of it... I'll be watching this (and subsequent episodes) several times. I wasn't aware that you were working with Jason on TFP Ground School... that's pretty cool. Once I'm flying more frequently I'll be taking advantage of that and many other currency resources. As for actual currency, I got an hour in the sim and an hour in the pattern; ten circuits brushed off some dust. No further word on the engine yet, but the funding is in place. Finishing wheel fairings and I'll be prepping the fuselage for paint soon.
Great video
Glad you enjoyed it Will.
Good one! Thx.
Oh, I'm so looking forward to watching this one! #tonight
Hi guys. I am an IFE and i liked this video. I am sure that the debrief was longuer than this video. I wanna add two things: first when you are under radar vectoring, the assigned heading may be chosen by the atc for separation. Second, decision making is very important in this situation: the fuel quantity should be checked again if you change your route. Under IMC and with a single engine aircraft, without certified GPS... you should have a good crew ressource management and go back to the old school (paper charts and E6B). If you have any doubt: GO BACK HOME and abort the mission.
Insights appreciated. Agreed on all points you’ve made, and yes, vectors as related to traffic separation should not be overlooked.
just a note to your sponsors... before Flightchops: maps, 1999 vintage Garmin GPS II Plus, old softcom headset in my Cessna 150.....After Flightchops: Maps (still) but with a New Ipad and Foreflight, Bose A20 headset, and, as I write this, in my camper behind the hangar at KK7, awaiting some tailwheel training so Luke Penner and I can fly over to Morden Mb to pick up my New (to me) RV6!
keep inspiring us muggles :)
This comment right here really made my morning Bill!
I really appreciate you letting me know that the tasteful integration of supportive sponsors into the related stories has resonated with you.
It is super rewarding to make this content and be a part of having a positive impact on the aviation community. I don't aim the material at gathering millions of views - I'm happy to focus on quality and reach people with something relevant. Thanks in large part to Patreon supporters and the sponsors that seem to "get it", this crazy thing has continued to be sustainable for going on 8 years now.
@@FlightChops I like the philosophy of "always learning" you convey, (I learn something nearly every video), this morning I get "Hands on" with the Citabria and possibly this afternoon with my RV6... feeling excited and nervous at the same time.
@@FlightChops oh... I forgot... the bag full of GoPro's and all the mounting stuff that goes with it, and the Wondershare software... getting a new appreciation for the work that goes into the content you create!
Hey, you came to visit me in Regina and I didn't even know :)
Awesome job
Interesting video, Steve 👍🏻
My flights are mostly IFR in a light twin. I prefer, by a lot, the flight brief generated by FltPlan. It is concise, to the point of relevancy and a whole section specifically about navigation aid status. Foreflight flight brief presents data, fltPlan presents information. Plus, a section will display notam changes within the last 12 hours.
One of the things I have been most impressed with ForeFlight, is how much they evolve and listen to feedback to make the interface better, and add features. I suspect they'll get better in this regard as well.
@@FlightChops Perhaps. I have asked them precisely that a few years back, and nothing really happened. Now that they are owned by Boeing, I would not hold my breath. Nice eye candy, however impractical. A simple test, make an IFR flight say from Montreal, to Washington with an alternate in Toronto. I had 126 pages of notams in FF. 99% is useless. The trick that a pilot is legally bound to is relevancy and chances are one will skip over an important one. This is what I am talking about. Garmin Pilot is not much better, in contrast I have 3 pages in FP. I guess to each its own, but congrats for the work anyhow. But be thorough like the rest of the work you do and try the example I suggested in both apps (FF & FP) and let us know your findings.
@@Montrachetvert I share your frustration, but to me it's more the FAA than the vendor. NOTAMs have no priority level, and most, as you point out, are nearly zero value. Friend of mine has an example of what would happen if the FAA made highway signs. It's a picture of a giant size that says "The corners of this sign are sharp!" and in tiny little letters at the bottom it says "the bridge is out."
Great topic!
Great video it opened my eyes learned a lot thanks
This is so good.👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
Glad you liked it Micke, and thanks for sticking around as a long time subscriber! Steve
If you’re high enough, you’re always radar vector equipped. Even though I’m an old school guy, I never fly without a GPS, however. Rather not use the #2 Ticonderoga…now a course line plotted on ForeFlight.
From an IFR PPL, good job with the learning moments and actively trying to understand what you did incorrectly. Remember when IFR, the controller is responsible for maintaining separation between aircraft. You should not deviate from the flight plan or directives unless it is an emergency. When you accepted the routing direct to the VOR without a way to accurately navigate there, you accepted the responsibility of maintaining your own navigation without the means to do so, putting other traffic at risk. The controllers likely would have vectored you to stay within VOR coverage or radar coverage otherwise.
When in doubt, communicate to the controllers.
Totally agreed - I learned a lot on this one and am happy to share it.
Just curious (not sure it pertains to the specific situation though), if you are VMC and fairly sure to remain well so, are you allowed to navigate direct using visual reference to the surface?
@@Rodhern Not specifically on an IFR flight plan. You can cancel your IFR flight plan and proceed VFR as you described. You are then required to maintain VFR cloud clearances.
@@flynjay7178 Thank you. Interesting.
What is the power of the YEA (Empress) VOR? Is it listed in the CFS? I have trained in Canada and the UK, and one of the things that the UK emphasised was that the power of a VOR or NDB is often more restrictive than the (almost) line-of-sight restriction. As a result, we were trained to always look it up before the flight.
I like your videos. On a technical note, I think you should consider using a video stabilization package like Mercalli to get rid of the "jello" effect, particularly in the shots from the rear of the cabin looking forward. The effect is pronounced and distracting.
Thanks for the tip. It is a challenge to jump around from plane to plane and find the best camera mounting options in everything. I edit with FCPX. Iw ill look into that or other plug ins. I am also likely upgrading to Hero9 soon, which should help (that was a hero5)
@@FlightChops I've used the ProDAD software on both Mac and Windows and it's pretty effective. I'm sure there are a number of other packages that get rid of the CMOS distortion artifacts. I use mostly ProDrenalin to remove lens distortion and (I shoot tennis matches from back of the court on the fence top and like the baseline straight in my final videos).
In the USA,(and I suspect Canada also) ATC always assumes you have GPS. The equipment codes and remarks aren’t included on the flight strip...
Interesting - I hadn’t realized ATC didn’t have all the info that was in the flight plan - I guess that’s more for SAR?
Remember kids, GPS can have regional outages too, as well as signal interference and jamming. It’s owned by the US government and can be disabled in a national security event. Yes, VORs are being decommissioned (there were al supposed to be all off in 2010) but they were extended because they do offer redundancy.
If you were to fly IMC into a region where someone is jamming the signal, what’s the plan?
I had that in El Paso about a month ago, thankfully I had green needles tuned in so it was just a matter of flipping the CDI
AOPA says: “Pilots who encounter an interruption of GPS navigation that affects flight safety or who have related flight-control issues can say the phrase “Stop buzzer” to air traffic control. That phraseology should initiate the process of interrupting the testing to restore navigation signal reception.”
www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2019/february/27/more-gps-interference-exercises-planned
The jerks in Nevada are always doing massive jamming events with like 3-4 day windows on the NOTAM, and I'm just waiting for it to result in someone flying into the side of a mountain under IFR. The jam areas are enormous, typically covering several states. The NOTAM also never specifies the exact time and duration so it's often impossible to diagnose the issue as jamming-- you'd just get a red X on position data. Did your GPS antenna fall off or is it malicious? If you do recognize a GPS failure coincident with a NOTAM and it's at all affecting the safety of your flight, the magic words to say to ATC are "stop buzzer". And keep your VORs safety checked and tuned just in case.
Oh hey, breaking GPS also breaks ADS-B Out, which makes collision avoidance that much more unsafe! Hope you weren't leaning too heavily on your iPad or GTN to help you see and avoid traffic.
There was a big problem with an Atlantic Ocean military jamming operation in 2019, just offshore. "Oh yeah, we're going to jam a 400nm radius encompassing all of Georgia, North and South Carolina, and most of Florida LOLOL." Regardless of the NOTAM, such behavior is incredibly irresponsible.
@@stevefreeland9255 That only works during a testing event -- what about an ACTUAL outage?
Great videos Steve. What are the iPad mounts you're using in this video?
We're using the Pivot Case with the appropriate yoke mount. pivotcase.com/
@@blake.crosby thanks !
My job means I spend a lot of time looking at NOTAMs all over the world and what I notice is Canada has a lot of NAVAIDs going unserviceable even if for short periods of time.
Interesting - curious as to what your job is.
And if you have any insights about how not to go cross eyed while trying to read through a zillion NOTAMS :)
I work for a company that produces navigation data. Must add that I have never compared the number of U/S nav aids per month with other countries so perhaps the apparent large number is just due to the size of the country.
I would recommend caffeine. Take a break if you feel you’re skim reading or not digesting the info.
Hopefully we will see products that can at least prioritise or highlight NOTAM’s of greater importance.
Note to self: NEVER fly in Canada without a GPS 😂
Even my school's trainer aircraft have Garmin GPS in them. Sure, I'm fairly confident I'll be able to navigate our practice area, but its a great fallback.
what is that mouse you're using @flightchops :O lol
Very cool to practice in a safe environment. If this was actual IMC, I would hope you would use all resources avail. even if it doesn't challenge you as much.
The main goal of any flight is coming home safe and using all the tools avail., not to boost your ego and show off.
IMC flying is so much safer these days with all the advanced tech. Some see it as cheating, but that is ego and wanting to feel superior. At the end of the day, if you can do the same things with tech. easier and safer, then that is a win.
Soon, GPS will be all there is for Nav. , if we are lucky to even keep that. At some point in time, it may all be automated and the human is only there to monitor systems.
For sure yes - this was about safely stretching / improving skills that are hard to practice normally.
I didn't read this as ego or showing off at all. To me, this is about becoming comfortable with the old school methods, that are sometimes the only methods available. As I'm sure you are aware, you can't legally navigate in a non-emergency situation using a non-certified device, and there are thousands of aircraft that aren't equipped with GPS. I fly in them, and they're completely safe. In addition, GPS can and does fail.
@@tomsmith3045 I wasn't meaning he was showing off, it was more of a general statement.
@@z06van21 Oh ok, sorry about that, misunderstood you.
For the few people who like me fly with a Jepp 'whizz wheel', there is a way to work out the distance to a VOR with a single twist of the 'whizz wheel' and without having to turn 90 degrees to the VOR, as required by Jason's method. It is probably too challenging to do while flying, but is a fun exercise for a co-pilot. Don't know if you can post a picture to these comments somehow, but here is a textual description. You use the wind side of the computer in the following way. (Jepp only, as other brands have a different wind side). Suppose to start with, the station is 30 degrees off to your left. Suppose you fly 4 miles, and the station is now 35 degrees off to your left. To calculate the range to the station, you line up the change in radial (5 degrees in this example) under the distance flown (in this case 4 miles) and then read off the current distance to the station above the original offset (in this case 30 degrees). In this example, that is approximately 23 miles. It requires a single twist of the whizz wheel and can be done single-handed, but probably only really of academic interest.
A more likely scenario to use the technique is intercepting a radial to or from a vor (or waypoint). From the example above, say the radial you want to intercept is 5 degrees away and the station or waypoint is 23 miles away, then you can calculate that a 30 degree intercept will require 4 miles to intercept, but a 45 degree intercept will require slightly over 2.8 miles.
Steve meant homing…? Instead of tracking?
If you have to do a NDB approach.... divert.
Haha. Totally
Excellent video and lots of good food-for-thought. But when you took off you had no idea that Empress was virtually due east and 090 would take you close enough to resume VOR navigation later? GPS and electronic maps are wonderful but have turned many travelers into follow the voice-and-magenta-line navigators with little situational awareness.
Glad you enjoyed it. And yes I had an idea of roughly where the VOR was, but my understanding is that IFR is not about roughly knowing where you are... so if I wasn’t sure I was flying to the fix, asking for a vector to actually get me straight to it was the call.
Dude, what is that screen saver in the background?
IFR. I follow roads😃😁
Are you guys using iPad minis or the next larger size?
iPad mini is the perfect size for flying on my opinion.
Thanks for your reply kind Sir!
I really don't see a compass installed in this aircraft is it still legal to fly IFR in canada ?
Top left corner of the panel beside the ASI.
You spent no time not knowing where you were, but you did spend a little time unable to verify (exactly) where you were! Big differenece
Fair enough. The exercise here was to try our best to use the old school tools, to get as close as possible to knowing exactly where we were.
I use IMSAFER.
never forget restroom!
Haha. Awesome. Noted.
I'd add an F to the other one... Food... You never know what you ll be eating. Maybe that s why airlines never give the same meal to captain and first?
Is the IFR just for practice? Looked VFR to me.
I think you’re confusing VFR and VMC
It’s very sad that this is even a thing. Piloting has dramatically changed in the last twenty years! It used to be a Aviate navigate communicate. Now it’s push buttons, check computer, check the other computer then communicate 😒
FYI I still love all the flight chops content!
I am curious - as a sailor I have to correct for magnetic variation and the deviation specific to my boat. If ATC gives you a vector, is it magnetic or true? If true how do you figure out the variation which would change significantly on a long flight? Thx.
Magnetic. Deviation should be considered but in practice it’s only a degree or two and is largely disregarded.
Andrew is right of course, ATC gives out vectors magnetic. Runway designations are magnetic, within a degree or so. Aircraft charts show local variation. Every plane I've been in has a card that lists wet compass deviation for different cardinal directions. If you're flying 'steam gauges" (analog) IFR like in this video, the pilot periodically sets the gyro compass to match the wet compass, as the gyro compass drifts a bit. Believe all glass panels display in magnetic. Believe they have special procedures for flying near the poles, but that's out of my experience level. Here in NY variation does change quite a bit from one side of the state to the other, but it's no problem to keep track.
@@tomsmith3045 That's a very nice explanation. Just to add on the polar navigation bit: modern avionics will initiate an automatic change from MAG reference to TRU reference when within certain defined areas near the North magnetic Pole. These areas are usually defined "compass unreliable" or "compass useless areas". Within those areas, runways are generally referenced to TRUE north too
@@andrewsmith951 Cool, thanks, and thanks for the polar info!
Request radar vector
But what if you're in a radar hole (and even a communications whole) which we were at times on this one.
@@FlightChops then old but trustful dead reckoning & pilotage
which i almost forget :(
damm... developement of tech is great thing but it makes me forget too many things...
Haha - yes cool. But in this case, we were also over the prairies at ~9,000' (everything below looks the same, flat land in all directions - and in several cases over top of a solid overcast layer making looking for ground features (even when featureless) a moot point..
Hey Steve how close is the RV to first flight??
Within a month I think!
(as of early May 2021 :)
I was always taught
I= Illness
M= Medication
S= Stress
A= Alcohol
F= Fatigue
E= Eating
Sleep and fatigue kinda go hand in hand IMO.
I like that - I think I'll change mine to reflect stress for the S
I agree. www.faa.gov/news/safety_briefing/2015/media/se_topic_15_03.pdf
Stress is a good one. I guess you can couple stress and fatigue. I always treated fatigue as "I've had enough sleep, but it's been a long day already and I shouldn't be continuing to fly".
Aaaaand, I'm back to keeping S = sleep :).
Good points Blake.
@@FlightChops
To each their own.
Flying can already be quite stressful at times so adding the stress of daily life ( work, finances, relationships ) can be far too distracting to be a safe and effective pilot. But yeah...sleep is important too.
Hey Steve what size pivot clamp you use?
Both Blake and I have iPad minis - perfect size for the cockpit
@@FlightChops When I moved into the "new age" of navigation, I got a Mini 4 and because of you and a couple others, upgraded to the Pivot this Christmas and I'm so happy that I did it. The size of the Mini is perfect for fitting in any cockpit without blocking the panel or a lot of the view depending on what I'm flying.
My S-21 build will only have GPS IFR capabilities.
No even back up radio nav option? The RV-14 has a nav/com just incase
Not sure what else you could have done when you went out of radar coverage and did not yet have the VOR in range. I presume you were in class E airspace, and as you were in VMC, you can fly VFR over the top with an instrument rating. I guess you could have switched your flight plan to VFR and then flown at a VFR altitude. If you had been in IMC though, I don't see how you could have complied with your clearance and I'm no sure what the right thing would have been to do.
Just keep flying the last heading we were assigned until we're back in range of the radar.
@@blake.crosby What should you say to the controller? Unable to comply with IFR and unable to give position reports until within range of VOR. Request to fly heading xxx until able to receive VOR?
Might be useful to request a climb, if weather and aircraft performance allows. Often the only thing keeping you from receiving a working station is a thousand feet, and it also makes you easier for ATC to see you on radar. Out in the western US it's common on some direct routings to be out of radio contact, let alone radar, for 30 or 40 nm. When IFR, ATC will block out the entire leg+altitude for you if you're unable to climb higher and they're unable to ensure separation with radar. This coincidentally is the standard procedure when radar fails at airports-- aircraft can still be separated, it's just a lot less efficient! But the whole IFR system depends on each pilot being responsible for navigation-- whether that means certified GPS, tracking a VOR radial or DME arcs, flying by pilotage if visibility permits (remember, a visual approach still falls within instrument procedures), or flying an assigned heading on dead reckoning. If ATC knows you're not GPS equipped they shouldn't give you impossible routings (did you file with the correct equipment suffix?) You can always reject the clearance with "unable". You can tell them "standby" while you figure out where that unexpected fix is (or ask them to tell you where it is in relation to other fixes on the chart). You can ask for a hold at a specific fix. And as a last resort you can also ask for a clearance back via the way you came, turn around, and sort it out on the ground.
Short of it though, it's your responsibility to not get yourself into a situation where you're unable to safely navigate. This is where planning is critical, and planning is something we too easily skimp on in the age of GPS and magenta lines. Are you familiar with all navaids along the route of flight? Even if you primarily fly with your fancy Garmin, have you validated correct operation of your VORs within the last 30 days? If you're down to dead reckoning in hard IMC and have lost all navigation aids, what was the sequence of events that led to such a dire situation? Can you safely continue the flight? Was there perhaps a point you should have just turned around and called it a day?
GNSS Is great but it can get you in hot water real quick if you're IFR and something goes wrong with it - when you're in the thick of it and RAIM pops up or, you're flying in mountainous terrain it's extremely reassuring to be able to look down at your already tuned VOR and see you're tracking safely.
Like any good part of airmanship - don't practice it because you plan on doing VOR approaches or nav, practice it so you can. Same as stalls, spins or any other non normals. Can't imagine anyone pretending they don't need to practice stalls because they'll never stall, same guy who's never forgotten their flap, gear, dipstick and knows the GNSS works all the time without flaw.
Good insights here - my goal is to practice and stay sharp with as many aspects as able.
The rules around using NON-certified equipment need to be understood.... You CAN use the iPad and Foreflight, but, there are rules, and you have to verify position with CERTIFIED equipment... However, I just said, YOU CAN USE the non-certified equipment. Same as using a paper chart....
ALSO - and this is very important, YOU CAN use dead reckoning, backed up with position verification via Navaid fixes, paper charts, foreFlight, other non-certified sources... filing direct in non-GPS aircraft is frowned upon by ATC, unless they have good radar coverage... but it is a viable option. Of course, doing approaches is a whole other ball game, and in NO circumstances should you EVER navigate an approach using non-certified equipment.
2:44 Ostentatious.
Fair enough, but I wanted to address that feedback which came in the last video regarding the iPads as related to “no certified GPS”. How would you suggest I word that to make the point?
GPS down??? pull the parachute ;)
No VOR or GPS? I guess you’re dead I reckon. 😂 of course pilotage and vfr charts still work.
Haha - yeah - But not if you're not at 9,000' over the prairies where there are no visual references... or over a solid cloud deck flying IFR, as we were much of the time for that one.
But truthfully, I considered myself under the hood even when not in IMC conditions for that flight, so I wanted to do everything assuming I had no visual references outside.
Is there no such thing as ADF navigation anymore? I'm retired -- and surprised. and what about good old fashioned pilotage? I guess no one even knows what that is. I was a ferry pilot for Cessna and Piper in the 60's. Commercial and instrument rated, of course. I never owned (or used) a headset. Never owned or used an autopilot. When my destination was 5 hours away, my left hand never left the control column; and I was expected to hold heading and altitude MANUALLY. When I watch these TH-cam videos on modern flying, I seriously wonder whether or not there are any pure pilots left. I'm not saying I was something special ..ALL pilots had those skills in those days because few of us (less than one out of a hundred) could afford an autopilot let alone a transponder or headset. Most of us could barely afford avgas at 24 cents a gallon. There were no satellites, so we guessed at the weather, and prayed a lot. Like many guys today I got my commercial in a 150; my IFR in a 172. I'll never forget reporting into Vero Beach and being tossed my papers: Deliver a Cherokee Six to Vancouver, WA. Great! I told a couple of other line pilots I had never flown "a six" before. No problem. Take off and landing, LOW PITCH-HIGH RPM -- dial back the manifold pressure to whatever it says for climb-out and cruising in the manual ...nothing to it. (I had the same scenario at Cessna with a Skylane RG. Read the manual, ya dumbbell -- it's all there in black and white. Put a sticker on the control column so I'd remember to put the gear down. But here's the best part: Vero Beach to Vancouver in the middle of January, over the Rockies -- and just for kicks, the guy who bought the Cherokee in Vancouver had his own radios ...so the new one, the one I AM delivering over the Rockies in winter has NO radios at all, and NO navigational instruments ...not even a gyro horizon. Just a compass, needle and ball, VSI, ASI, and altimeter. Have a nice day. What I did have was a ton of charts, and the rudimentary skills to read terrain visually and find it on the charts as I went along my way. I did these things routinely for thousands of hours without a mishap. Read light signals from the tower when I had no radios -- which was frequently in those days. And for all that, I was absolutely nothing special. BUT when I see programs about flying disasters, I am appalled at the incompetence! I mean, these guys or gals lose the horizon, GOD FORBID, it's practically a death sentence if their auto-pilot or computer fails! They're not pilots anymore -- they're computer monitors! If their computer goes down in bad weather, it's like a death sentence. Guys like Sullenberger are all gone. Can ANYONE fly a plane anymore from coast to coast in bad weather without radios, without GPS, VOR, ADF, or an autopilot? I seriously doubt it. And that's fine ...I mean, who cares, right? Except when things go really wrong IN THE MIDDLE of a flight, and those skills are not to be found, everyone is in jeopardy. It's a different world, I know ...and I have become irrelevant. My opinions no longer matter. And I'm okay with that.
I didn't count on the ADF, because at best the instrument was unreliable, and at worst there were very few NDBs along the route. As for pilotage, I assume you mean VFR navigating? This was an IFR flight, much of which was above a solid layer, or over the prairies with no discernible landmarks. But that's a moot point, as I wanted to do it as if I was IMC. Your war stories are impressive, but there is zero chance I'd consider taking on those risks, and some of what you describe is actually illegal today. Regardless, I am a firm believer in strong stick and rudder fundamentals, and I fly a T6 / Harvard when I'm not trying to fly IFR... can I get some points for that? :)
th-cam.com/video/utM_2xyW7kY/w-d-xo.html
I have been instrument rated for 38years....well before any iPad or GPS and it’s actually not that hard. And in Australia we have never had many ground stations to use. Today’s pilots are so spoilt... most can’t even do simple maths.
Please move your content to Rumble
I am deleting my TH-cam account due to TH-cam
silencing those who do not support leftist, anarchists’ and Biden voters.
Please put your great channel on Rumble where the 1st Amendment is
honoured and I can still watch your excellent content.
Foreflight web briefing is awesome. Ctrl+F and search for the word "unserviceable" or your NAVAIDS abbreviations/frequencies and it helps find broken stuff. I'll usually scan through the NOTAMS looking for anything that really stands out after that.
Awesome tip here! I didn’t occur to me to try filtering the NOTAMs by key words