Neil @digdrivediy has some of our favorite driveway videos and an amazing limestone driveway. Here's an example: th-cam.com/video/40k-_kb3Fi0/w-d-xo.html
In my early days, driving a dumptruck, the often-said phrase was "river gravel always finds its way back to the river." We always recommended crushed stone, especially for topping. 3/4 inch minus (3/4 or smaller, has dust and fines in it) was the recommended size unless a lot of heavy traffic. Perfect for a driveway. Gravel is great for making concrete, and for leach fields of septic tanks. Other than that, crushed stone for aeverything else
Im in the mid south it hits 100 in summer and 0 in winter along with extreme rain in May and surrounding months my driveway is about a quarter mile also threw swamp like heavily wooded area near the Mississippi river The local rock company talked me into getting clay gravel mixed and a geo weed barrier to start as a base drive over it around a year then add a layer of crushed concrete forming a type of domed shape running into irrigation trenches along both sides of the driveway it has worked great absolutely no problems as of yet..
Glad you switched over to the limestone. You may have already noticed how clean it washes after rain and it does lock together so nicely, I’m currently slowly replenishing our driveway with it after having all the pea gravel wash away
Your driveway will only be as good as your sub grade!, the last thing you want to do is keep adding more stone every year which adds up in money spent!. Limestone locks in and gravel rolls around!. If you dont want to use fabric before you put stone down then you should put down 6 inches of #2 limestone and 2 inches of 3/4 inch limestone with dust to choke your #2 limestone in place. And to make your wife happy the cover your drive with an inch of gravel to still maintain the rustic look. No matter what you put on top if your base isnt good it will keep pumping dirt up and stone down.
Unfortunately, we didn't put fabric down in our driveway when we built it. It would have been way too much cost at that time for our long driveway. We did do 57 tri-axle loads of shale as a base - so our base is good and solid. Good tip about just putting the gravel on top as a top-coat for the rustic look.
Ive used fabric and tin star but the good stuff is too exspensive. If 6" #2 limestone doesent look like it will work I'll get broken bags cement discounted and spread them out in bad areas then till it in with tractor re-compact in by wheel rolling it and install the stone, it will set up in a few days and you can also do it with ag lime in bags same steps and it will get hard as well. We use to do a lot of soil stabilization where I worked. Merry Christmas.
Great talk and comparison on limestone vs gravel. I think the limestone looks great! I can't believe your limestone prices there in NW PA! A 20 ton tri-axle load of washed stone here is about $400.
What we do when we build driveways or parking lots is we use road cloth underneath the base. This helps to stop the stone from disappearing into the soil. This is similar to how highway roads are built.
The geotextile fabric would have been a good idea. I'm not sure if it was around 23 years ago when we were building the house/driveway. And if it was - I wouldn't have had the money for it. At the time, the 53 triaxle loads of shale after excavating the driveway already put us over budget. :)
@@PurpleCollarLife Understandable. I guess I would see it as a pay now and not later type of scenario. We have done things without it and it has worked as well. Depending on the soil type.
We used B19 for years as a good base and even top coat. We switched to limestone with dust about 25 yrs ago and haven't looked back. It compacts well ans once dust gets wet, it makes it pretty hard and packed. Dust can be a pain when it rains hard, but we sometimes switch with washed topcoat. We also use a recycled crushed concrete gravel for our drive to out barn since it packs well and is much cheaper than limestone.
It looks good. It has an attractive appearance. 👍 We've used crushed granite for our driveway. It has a blueish color to it (I believe it's granite, anyway) and it works well for our application. The only drawback is that it comes in irregular pieces and can turn an ankle if you run or walk too quickly on it. Thanks for sharing, Chad! 😎
Your pricing is similar to what we pay in our area. There is only one quarry in the area that can source limestone and it gets a premium price for its stone. Also, our haulers have seen a dramatic increase in their costs due to inflation with fuel, parts and repairs and they have been forced to raise their prices. The aggregate we buy is limestone crusher and it locks in great and will stay on our hills and curves. We’ve found that the limestone packs in great and outlasts the granite crusher used in the past. This added longevity makes the limestone a better value over time for us. Good luck with your experiment and with the upcoming wedding.
3/4” limestone with plate compactor is what we use. Holds really well and is much more comfortable to walk and drive on. We have three roads on our property 100’ each road. Asphalt for our main entrance (can be plowed) one road 3/4” limestone to our carport and another road 3/4” limestone to the back side of property leading to our barn.
NW-PA, you getting from Cooperstown? Was just looking into getting mine added to. I never liked the straight stone, as every driveway I dealt with was sloped and it would easily spin out. Crushed packs much better for traction.
Interesting comparison.... My drive is only 300 x 12 feet and has a 15degree pitch to it. After the initial gravel and clay base was packed down, I had 18 ton of #57 rock put down and rolled. I bought too much stone for the pitch so I have some spin ruts occasionally but it is clean, neat and apart from grading it with my ATV and a 8' piece of chain link fencing, it is holding pretty well. Thanks for the video....
I've hauled limestone for 20 some years. It crushes into dust over time and needs replenished every year. Here in Iowa it's cheaper , but has a shorter life than river gravel. Our non paved roads need yearly up keep.
Thanks for sharing! We're developing a 12.5 acre parcel in northern Indiana (currently it's corn/soy farmed) and will be putting about a 500' driveway in over the tilled farmland. This was helpful!
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Great video, I just want to point out that my drive way is 1000 feet and up by the house, I used driveway cloth and it never disappeared but the rest, I have had to continually add. So ground cloth saves a pile of money.
My driveway is a 1/2 mile long and I started out with 8 inches of railroad gravel from a old track being removed locally and then added some crushed concrete, it only sank about 4 inches, only thing I don’t like is the fines in the crushed concrete that’s always getting into the garage, not to mention the 2 wheel barrels of metal pieces we picked up out of the crushed concrete.
I just topped my driveway with 80 tons of limestone about two years ago. The original stone was installed in 1978 and has only been refreshed about 4 or 5 times before my last one. Hat tip - if you really want a firm base order stone dust first (same stuff they put on horse tracks) and spread evenly and let dry for a week or so. Stuff gets hard as concrete. Then top with stone. I second Neil’s driveway videos @digdrivediy
This is what they post from my local stone place. 2B Loose Crushed Stone$37.60 / Yard 28.90/Ton for 22 Ton loads. 3/4" loose crushed stone, washed and free of fine stone dust. Used for drainage or under concrete slabs and sidewalks. Not preferred in driveways because it will not compact and become a firm solid base, and will roll out from under the tires when driven on, but some people occasionally use it in the driveway and apply it in a very thin layer and it helps prevent the muddy condition caused by the fine stone dust that is mixed in the 2A modified.
Thanks for sharing the pricing in your area! I am curious if we had switched to limestone earlier in our driveway life if it would have packed in better over time and we wouldn't have needed to purchase so many tri-axle loads of gravel. 🤔🤔
@@PurpleCollarLife No matter how much stone you put down it always seems to disappear. I used 80 tons of road millings and it works ok but the size of the millings vary drastically.
Thanks for the info! I have a few questions if you don’t mind. What is 21AA stone? How long is the driveway? Does the 25 tons provide a fresh top-coat for the entire driveway? How often do you do this?
@@PurpleCollarLife 21AA is a mix of crushed stone and fines that pack extremely well. It's often used on top of larger base stone for gravel roads here in Michigan. It's not as aesthetic as limestone or river rock but it's very functional and is very solid when packed. Hard to say how often it needs to be topped off. It depends on how stable the base rock is and how much traffic it gets. Personally, I have geo textile fabric over well packed clay as a base so I don't have to add to it, I just resurface it with a box blade on my tractor. The fabric keeps it from sinking down. The driveway is about 110 feet.
I wonder if you would spread pea gravel over the limestone before the limestone gets packed and then used a vibrating roller. It would put the brown color in but I don’t know how long it would last. I’m gonna try a small section when I do mine.
We started with shale and crushed stone. I can't remember now if it was 52 or 57 tri-axle loads. But around here, that's the best material for a base. Thanks for watching!
Aggregate pricing is all relative to how far away you are from your reseller or the grave pit. The trucking cost is what determines the varying prices, not the price of the gravel itself.
I use limestone but get it from the local quarry hauling it myself with my dump trailer 5 tons at a time for 6 bucks a ton. The quarry is only a couple of miles from my place so i get a trailer load when I need it and have time to spread it.
love the limestone just for the packing and locking together ability. I personally have yellow clay for ground ( yuk, so slimy when wet ) I used 1-1/2 rock for a couple years to pack and firm up the ground , then I started using 3/4 minus crushed with all the fines in it to help lock it in. I found a supplier locally of crushed Granite with all the fines in it, that is even better than the 3/4 minus. the crushed granite does not wash out for me, and packs in way better... give it a try , you may like it. the crushed granite in north central MN cost me roughly $600 for a 10 yard truck load ( tandem truck ) .
Would it be more cost effective to put down geotextile fabric then limestone? The added cost in my high cost of living area would be about $1,320 for 1/4 mile of 12ft wide driveway. That's 5.8 loads of rock at $450 each.
Thanks for the information and own land in California 3300 sq feet. Equally important thinking of graveling the whole property and don't really have a long drive way. .
Your 2s and 3s should only be used as a base. When we build driveways we always use a geo fabric first, then a base of 4" crusher run, then topped with several inches of a 3/4 limestone crusher run. Keep a crown to it and yoh will never have problems if you maintain it. Washed stone will get plowed away easier than stone with fines.
Thanks. For driveways this long, the geotextile fabric is just too cost prohibitive. Long driveways are already expensive enough for the prep work and the material. I did use crusher run at first, but it creates potholes and doesn't let the water run down through as quickly (getting your vehicle more dirty). But that was just my experience. I've seen some people have great success doing exactly what you've described. You're spot on with the loose stone on top getting plowed off. I spend hours and hours each Spring getting that gravel out of the yard and back into the driveway.
I used 2 inch base for the first layer it packed down in a few months just about like concrete and have 2 inch clean on top i really haven't had any sink and disappear
The limestone should help to prevent weed growth because of its low PH level, would like to see an update on this to see how effective the limestone was at preventing weed growth.
If you can afford it lay down road fabric before putting down any stone. It’ll prevent stone from going down and dirt/clay from coming up. That’ll save from adding so much stone over the years. It won’t totally prevent adding stone because it wears down with traffic. You can put down larger stone on the fabric first. As far as size everywhere in the country seems to call stone different things. Wish we could come up with a universal sizing system. The size of base rock will be dependent on the size of vehicles traversing your road. Light vehicle traffic you can get away with railroad ballast size. Big trucks you’d be better served putting down larger rock which what we call surge stone in Georgia. Then lock that larger stone in with a smaller rock or crusher run. Putting the fabric down also allows you to put a thinner layer overall than no fabric. Another alternative to all of this, I bought an ABI SR3 grading rake and it can scarify the drive and bring buried rock back up to the surface so you don’t have to add so much rock overtime. This setup is best for a singular size stone drive, not drives with a surge base as you don’t want to bring that large rock up to the surface.
Use geo fabric under your gravel for areas driven over often. More upfront cost less additional gravel needed over the years. I personally use 825b which is essentially #57 which is what you have with some pieces a bit larger with the fines in it as well. The fines helps everything lock together.
I do wish I had invested in the geo fabric. But with a driveway this long, and building a house - I just didn't have the extra money at the time. The 53 loads of shale base was expensive enough. :)
@PurpleCollarLife I feel your pain. We are slowly but surely getting 26 acres back into shape after decades of not being used with a house to be started hopefully this year.
I just scheduled our annual delivery of 2B washed limestone for our driveway. We’ve tried river rock in a few places before but found that it doesn’t lock in and rolls out of place or off the road. I agree that the cost of gravel has gotten crazy, now above $700 per tri-axle.
I grew up referring to any crushed rock used as a road surface as gravel. You are the 2nd Pennsylvanian to use the term gravel to refer to river rock. Back in Central Wisconsin, all the gravel was crushed red granite and had an orangish color. Now that I live in the karst region of SE Minnesota, the only available gravel is crushed limestone. The limestone makes a great base, but eventually gets pulverized by heavy traffic. The harder granite lasted much longer.
Thanks for sharing! I always find it interesting to hear that different areas of the country (and world) refer to different items with different names. For example, we call an ice cream place a “tasty freeze” around here. I understand that other areas call them all “Dairy Queen” (even if they’re not that brand) or other names.
Thanks for the comment. That's not the best way to make a driveway in our area - where we have wet space on both sides of the driveway. Here, you want your driveway on a bed of shale, raised up higher than the two sides. Then, when the sides get wet, the driveway is above that wet area, rather than the water all filling the driveway.
Crushed/recycled concrete is the absolute best way to go. It packs and no more pot holes . I did mine 5yrs ago with crushed concrete and have had no problems
@@PurpleCollarLife You can get it in different sizes, a common size for driveways is #57 which is ~3/4". They use it a lot on large construction sites around the construction trailer and temporary parking lot.
For the amount of agrevation your putting on yourself, you should experiment with 50 or 100 feet of Portland cement and sand bags or bitiman and hot asphalt compare prices. Yes you can do pavement yourself. You can use your existing stone for cement the asphalt usually has finer stones.
I've had the best results using crusher run. It is far cheaper than other forms of limestone and packs as hard as asphalt. It is also easier to walk on.
Yes, informative. SO many videos say to roll out an underlay, but I don't want anything not biodegradable spread out on my property, or wrapped around my house.
That's an interesting question. I'm not sure what you consider a "real road base". Ours was over 50 tri-axle loads of shale. I believe that's what is typically used as base for any roads I've seen built from scratch around here.
We talked about the truckload cost throughout this video. That’s the pricing we talk about. Remember - that was the pricing we paid, in our area, at the time the video was made.
If it where me, I would have cut in the roadway down 3" or so, put down a base of 3-4" crushed concrete or same size rock, topped it with cheap unfiltered sand, then put on the shale or limestone.
Not sure where your at, but in Iowa all gravel IS limestone. And it's yellow. You can hear the difference from yours. Yours sounds like a harder material. Almost like granite. Ours is a soft sound and yes it breaks down. River rock here is HARD smooth round stones that you could never use in a driveway. Only good for gardens and in concrete. It's weird how stuffs different by location.
22 years ago when we were putting in the driveway, I don't even remember if road fabric was a thing. If it was - I probably wouldn't have been able to afford it in our long drive way. It took over 50 triaxle loads of shale to establish the base after skimming off all the top soil. Thanks for watching! Happy New Year!!
i like how rather than have the sub grade properly engineered and compacted once and lay down geotextile fabric, he added hundreds of dollars of gravel per year for over two decades
Thank you for watching and giving me this opportunity to clarify. The sub grade was properly engineered and compacted. In 2000, before we built the house, all the the topsoil in what was going to be the driveway was removed, and over 50 triaxle loads of shale base was brought in and installed and compacted. Then the gravel was applied as a top coat over that. That is the proper way to do driveways and roadways (at least around here). That method is still used today for not only driveways, but also interstates and parking lots. 20 years ago, there was no talk of geotextile for driveways (at least not that I'm aware of), and certainly not for driveways as long as ours, being built in the middle of the woods. The cost of construction for a driveway like ours was high - even then - without geotextile, for me (a 20 something guy building a house in the middle of the woods) - we followed the best method possible. And having a long driveway means adding gravel regularly. If you have one, I'm sure you can understand.
Thanks for watching. I'm not even sure if geo-grid was a thing 23+ years ago when we first built the driveway. If it was - it was probably beyond what we could spend. Establishing the driveway first took 53 tri-axle loads of shale. For about the first 3 years - we didn't have any top coat at all because of the expense of building a driveway in the woods.
@@PurpleCollarLife it’s been around a long time and very popular since the 80’s. You are right though adding tons and tons of rocks is cheaper than fabric. Even at today’s prices the fabric is cheap. I throw the stuff down just for fun in parking areas it’s so cheap. Someone should have said something to you 17 years ago when you build a new road every year for years instead of just maintaining it.
Since when is round rock a good base? Round always moves. Crush rock doesn’t move as much. That’s why the stuff called road base is crushed limestone it compacts and locks
Thanks! I just wonder where the round rock will move to? Unless I'm on an incline and it rolls down hill, where will it go? We've done hundreds of tons of gravel (river rock) over the years. It isn't all laying along the sides of the driveway - so it must just crush down into the ground?
I don't know, but seems to be the road base wasn't cleared to the sub soil, and and then a good base put down and compacted. Instead just smoothed/leveled and gravel put on it. Unless there are some pumpy areas (always wet) shouldn't be that kind of settling from what I have seen. It certainly isn't cheap, but sounds like a lot of work was done over 22 years and probably cost more in the long run. That said, you gotta do what you gotta do. Don't always have the ability for the best, sometimes just the good enough.
Thanks for the comment. Our base was actually created by removing all the top soil (bulldozer - that's why there are multiple piles of topsoil along our driveway to this day) over 50 tri-axle loads of shale (from a shale pit), then 22 years of gravel on top. :) I guess when you build a house in the woods, with a long driveway, it takes some time for it all to settle in.
@@PurpleCollarLife Thanks for the reply. If that is the case it would seem to show that smooth rocks are probably not the best road surface as they just continually move and no way for them to lock together like crushed stone to create a solid interlocked mat. Things to think about when building your long driveways for sure!
Damn doing that every year, asphalt is cheaper. My driveway lasted 20 yrs and its still ok. I payed $5000 in 2004. for 2800 sq ft. You will spend 8000 to 16,000 over 20 years.
We did get a more recent quote for asphalt - it was going to be $24,000 for our driveway and turn around. And then you also have the cost of sealing it every few years. It would be nice though to never have to get gravel again. :)
@@PurpleCollarLife sealant is a waste of money a driveway is destroyed from water/ice underneath. My first driveway lasted 19 yrs and I sealed it many times. The 2nd driveway is 20 yrs old never sealed it once, I will get 4-5 yrs more out of it. I payed $5000 for my last driveway .Sealing costs $200 so I would pay 5000 sealing it annually over 25 yrs ,sealant lasts 1 yr or less. best to put the 200 x25=5000 towards a new driveway.
First of all river rock IS NOT GRAVEL. Second, why why would you use rounded river rock for your driveway?? Those rocks will never bond together and the reason you think they are "breaking apart" is that if you lay round rock, on round rock they snap easy under load. Think eggs in a basket if you must to understand. That is why your driveway keeps "disappearing". River rock on river rock is basically a gravel slip and slide. So sorry you waisted so much money over 20 years adding river rock on top of river rock just for "looks" Jagged cut rocks (recycled cement) that is what gravel is. River rock are just large pebbles. Always always use gravel (jagged cut rock) to build your gravel driveways. Lay a good 3 inch layer of 3 to 4 inch jagged rock. Then add a layer of crushed jagged rock with fines in it and Compact it all together. THEN lay down a top coat of 1 to 2 inch jagged rock (gravel) and watch the bonding magic take place.
That would be amazing. I last priced concrete for the driveway about 10 years ago and the price was unbelievable. I can only imagine what it would be now with today’s material and labor rates. Thanks for watching and leaving a comment!
Neil @digdrivediy has some of our favorite driveway videos and an amazing limestone driveway. Here's an example: th-cam.com/video/40k-_kb3Fi0/w-d-xo.html
Hey thanks for the mention Chad!
How is with drainage? Would you recommend on a slope. ? We are looking at all options bit a must is that it has to be a permeable driveway.
In my early days, driving a dumptruck, the often-said phrase was "river gravel always finds its way back to the river." We always recommended crushed stone, especially for topping. 3/4 inch minus (3/4 or smaller, has dust and fines in it) was the recommended size unless a lot of heavy traffic. Perfect for a driveway. Gravel is great for making concrete, and for leach fields of septic tanks. Other than that, crushed stone for aeverything else
That's a great, memorable saying! Thanks for the information and experience.
Im in the mid south it hits 100 in summer and 0 in winter along with extreme rain in May and surrounding months my driveway is about a quarter mile also threw swamp like heavily wooded area near the Mississippi river The local rock company talked me into getting clay gravel mixed and a geo weed barrier to start as a base drive over it around a year then add a layer of crushed concrete forming a type of domed shape running into irrigation trenches along both sides of the driveway it has worked great absolutely no problems as of yet..
That sounds like the smart way to do it! :)
Glad you switched over to the limestone. You may have already noticed how clean it washes after rain and it does lock together so nicely, I’m currently slowly replenishing our driveway with it after having all the pea gravel wash away
It's certainly been a nice upgrade with the limestone. Thanks for watching!
Your driveway will only be as good as your sub grade!, the last thing you want to do is keep adding more stone every year which adds up in money spent!. Limestone locks in and gravel rolls around!. If you dont want to use fabric before you put stone down then you should put down 6 inches of #2 limestone and 2 inches of 3/4 inch limestone with dust to choke your #2 limestone in place. And to make your wife happy the cover your drive with an inch of gravel to still maintain the rustic look. No matter what you put on top if your base isnt good it will keep pumping dirt up and stone down.
Unfortunately, we didn't put fabric down in our driveway when we built it. It would have been way too much cost at that time for our long driveway. We did do 57 tri-axle loads of shale as a base - so our base is good and solid.
Good tip about just putting the gravel on top as a top-coat for the rustic look.
Ive used fabric and tin star but the good stuff is too exspensive. If 6" #2 limestone doesent look like it will work I'll get broken bags cement discounted and spread them out in bad areas then till it in with tractor re-compact in by wheel rolling it and install the stone, it will set up in a few days and you can also do it with ag lime in bags same steps and it will get hard as well. We use to do a lot of soil stabilization where I worked. Merry Christmas.
@steveashworth6707 gr8 info. Thx
I used clean crushed concrete for base and low spots with nice coat of limestone on top to look good.
Great talk and comparison on limestone vs gravel. I think the limestone looks great! I can't believe your limestone prices there in NW PA! A 20 ton tri-axle load of washed stone here is about $400.
Thanks for watching, Neil! I wish our limestone was at that price point. :)
I pay $220 a load. I may start stockpiling stone.
😊I pay 350 for 2b. Near Binghamton NY.
I'm glad I live next to a quarry. I load my trailer with limestone @ 7 a ton.
That's amazing! Great deal.
What we do when we build driveways or parking lots is we use road cloth underneath the base. This helps to stop the stone from disappearing into the soil. This is similar to how highway roads are built.
The geotextile fabric would have been a good idea. I'm not sure if it was around 23 years ago when we were building the house/driveway. And if it was - I wouldn't have had the money for it. At the time, the 53 triaxle loads of shale after excavating the driveway already put us over budget. :)
@@PurpleCollarLife Understandable. I guess I would see it as a pay now and not later type of scenario. We have done things without it and it has worked as well. Depending on the soil type.
Nice drive. In this area asphalt millings are a popular choice and readily available, and it packs well.
I've seen people on TH-cam using the asphalt millings like @DudeRanchDIY - and they do pack in really smooth!
We used B19 for years as a good base and even top coat. We switched to limestone with dust about 25 yrs ago and haven't looked back. It compacts well ans once dust gets wet, it makes it pretty hard and packed. Dust can be a pain when it rains hard, but we sometimes switch with washed topcoat. We also use a recycled crushed concrete gravel for our drive to out barn since it packs well and is much cheaper than limestone.
Thanks for the comment! I've seen people use recycled asphalt - and it does a nice job of packing in. Recycled concrete probably does even better!
It looks good. It has an attractive appearance. 👍 We've used crushed granite for our driveway. It has a blueish color to it (I believe it's granite, anyway) and it works well for our application. The only drawback is that it comes in irregular pieces and can turn an ankle if you run or walk too quickly on it. Thanks for sharing, Chad! 😎
Thanks for sharing! I bet the crushed granite really holds up over time.
Your pricing is similar to what we pay in our area. There is only one quarry in the area that can source limestone and it gets a premium price for its stone. Also, our haulers have seen a dramatic increase in their costs due to inflation with fuel, parts and repairs and they have been forced to raise their prices. The aggregate we buy is limestone crusher and it locks in great and will stay on our hills and curves. We’ve found that the limestone packs in great and outlasts the granite crusher used in the past. This added longevity makes the limestone a better value over time for us. Good luck with your experiment and with the upcoming wedding.
Thanks for watching!
3/4” limestone with plate compactor is what we use. Holds really well and is much more comfortable to walk and drive on. We have three roads on our property 100’ each road. Asphalt for our main entrance (can be plowed) one road 3/4” limestone to our carport and another road 3/4” limestone to the back side of property leading to our barn.
Thanks for sharing!
NW-PA, you getting from Cooperstown? Was just looking into getting mine added to. I never liked the straight stone, as every driveway I dealt with was sloped and it would easily spin out. Crushed packs much better for traction.
Thanks for watching! Yes - sometimes Cooperstown s&g.
Thank you, exactly what i was looking for.
Glad I could help!
Interesting comparison.... My drive is only 300 x 12 feet and has a 15degree pitch to it. After the initial gravel and clay base was packed down, I had 18 ton of #57 rock put down and rolled. I bought too much stone for the pitch so I have some spin ruts occasionally but it is clean, neat and apart from grading it with my ATV and a 8' piece of chain link fencing, it is holding pretty well. Thanks for the video....
Yeap,that was for me just to certify my solid knowledge about this! Well is all about haveing it ! Crushed will not disaper so quicly !
Thanks for watching!
I've hauled limestone for 20 some years. It crushes into dust over time and needs replenished every year. Here in Iowa it's cheaper , but has a shorter life than river gravel. Our non paved roads need yearly up keep.
Thanks for the info!
Thanks for sharing! We're developing a 12.5 acre parcel in northern Indiana (currently it's corn/soy farmed) and will be putting about a 500' driveway in over the tilled farmland. This was helpful!
I'm glad the video was helpful! Thanks for watching and leaving a comment. Keep us posted on your progress!!
Just the info I was looking for... thank you.
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Thank you, I was trying to make this decision just this week and this popped up!
Thanks for letting us know! Are you thinking gravel or limestone? Any idea what the cost difference in your area is?
@@PurpleCollarLife I'm in Florida, so limestone is much cheaper. I'll probably have to go with that.
Great video, I just want to point out that my drive way is 1000 feet and up by the house, I used driveway cloth and it never disappeared but the rest, I have had to continually add. So ground cloth saves a pile of money.
Thanks for sharing! That's very interesting that the ground cloth will keep the gravel from disappearing like it does without that layer.
My driveway is a 1/2 mile long and I started out with 8 inches of railroad gravel from a old track being removed locally and then added some crushed concrete, it only sank about 4 inches, only thing I don’t like is the fines in the crushed concrete that’s always getting into the garage, not to mention the 2 wheel barrels of metal pieces we picked up out of the crushed concrete.
How do both do when it comes to plowing?
AR/Ok region the sb2 is the go to material. Geotextile keeps the rock on the surface longer.
Thanks! It’s interesting that different areas use different materials.
I just topped my driveway with 80 tons of limestone about two years ago. The original stone was installed in 1978 and has only been refreshed about 4 or 5 times before my last one. Hat tip - if you really want a firm base order stone dust first (same stuff they put on horse tracks) and spread evenly and let dry for a week or so. Stuff gets hard as concrete. Then top with stone. I second Neil’s driveway videos @digdrivediy
Thanks for watching! Sounds like your driveway has an excellent base!
This is what they post from my local stone place.
2B Loose Crushed Stone$37.60 / Yard 28.90/Ton for 22 Ton loads.
3/4" loose crushed stone, washed and free of fine stone dust. Used for drainage or under concrete slabs and sidewalks. Not preferred in driveways because it will not compact and become a firm solid base, and will roll out from under the tires when driven on, but some people occasionally use it in the driveway and apply it in a very thin layer and it helps prevent the muddy condition caused by the fine stone dust that is mixed in the 2A modified.
Thanks for sharing the pricing in your area! I am curious if we had switched to limestone earlier in our driveway life if it would have packed in better over time and we wouldn't have needed to purchase so many tri-axle loads of gravel. 🤔🤔
@@PurpleCollarLife No matter how much stone you put down it always seems to disappear. I used 80 tons of road millings and it works ok but the size of the millings vary drastically.
$650 for 25 tons of 21AA delivered in mid Michigan. Packed heavy clay base, geo textile fabric then the gravel. Its been very solid so far.
Thanks for the info! I have a few questions if you don’t mind. What is 21AA stone? How long is the driveway? Does the 25 tons provide a fresh top-coat for the entire driveway? How often do you do this?
@@PurpleCollarLife 21AA is a mix of crushed stone and fines that pack extremely well. It's often used on top of larger base stone for gravel roads here in Michigan. It's not as aesthetic as limestone or river rock but it's very functional and is very solid when packed. Hard to say how often it needs to be topped off. It depends on how stable the base rock is and how much traffic it gets. Personally, I have geo textile fabric over well packed clay as a base so I don't have to add to it, I just resurface it with a box blade on my tractor. The fabric keeps it from sinking down. The driveway is about 110 feet.
I wonder if you would spread pea gravel over the limestone before the limestone gets packed and then used a vibrating roller. It would put the brown color in but I don’t know how long it would last. I’m gonna try a small section when I do mine.
That is certainly an interesting idea. Let us know how it works!
Could you start with crushed "pulverized" limestone tilled in to the dirt to make a more solid base?
We started with shale and crushed stone. I can't remember now if it was 52 or 57 tri-axle loads. But around here, that's the best material for a base. Thanks for watching!
Aggregate pricing is all relative to how far away you are from your reseller or the grave pit. The trucking cost is what determines the varying prices, not the price of the gravel itself.
That's very true. The trucking cost is the expensive part. If we had our own dump truck - we could get the material pretty cheap.
I use limestone but get it from the local quarry hauling it myself with my dump trailer 5 tons at a time for 6 bucks a ton. The quarry is only a couple of miles from my place so i get a trailer load when I need it and have time to spread it.
That's a great deal! I wish we had a local place to get it like that.
love the limestone just for the packing and locking together ability. I personally have yellow clay for ground ( yuk, so slimy when wet ) I used 1-1/2 rock for a couple years to pack and firm up the ground , then I started using 3/4 minus crushed with all the fines in it to help lock it in. I found a supplier locally of crushed Granite with all the fines in it, that is even better than the 3/4 minus. the crushed granite does not wash out for me, and packs in way better... give it a try , you may like it. the crushed granite in north central MN cost me roughly $600 for a 10 yard truck load ( tandem truck ) .
Would it be more cost effective to put down geotextile fabric then limestone? The added cost in my high cost of living area would be about $1,320 for 1/4 mile of 12ft wide driveway. That's 5.8 loads of rock at $450 each.
Thanks for the information and own land in California 3300 sq feet. Equally important thinking of graveling the whole property and don't really have a long drive way. .
Thanks for watching! I'm glad this video was helpful.
Your 2s and 3s should only be used as a base. When we build driveways we always use a geo fabric first, then a base of 4" crusher run, then topped with several inches of a 3/4 limestone crusher run. Keep a crown to it and yoh will never have problems if you maintain it. Washed stone will get plowed away easier than stone with fines.
Thanks. For driveways this long, the geotextile fabric is just too cost prohibitive. Long driveways are already expensive enough for the prep work and the material. I did use crusher run at first, but it creates potholes and doesn't let the water run down through as quickly (getting your vehicle more dirty). But that was just my experience. I've seen some people have great success doing exactly what you've described.
You're spot on with the loose stone on top getting plowed off. I spend hours and hours each Spring getting that gravel out of the yard and back into the driveway.
I used 2 inch base for the first layer it packed down in a few months just about like concrete and have 2 inch clean on top i really haven't had any sink and disappear
That's great!
The limestone should help to prevent weed growth because of its low PH level, would like to see an update on this to see how effective the limestone was at preventing weed growth.
That's a great idea. I'll add it to my future video list.
Limestone raises ph.
On a brand new virgin drive way are larger stones better for a starter base and then work smaller in the future?
Absolutely! I always recommend working from larger stones as a base, to smaller stones as a surface as it packs down.
@@PurpleCollarLife What size base stones would you use?
@@Rick-tb4so I used shale on the bottom, and then 3” gravel.
If you can afford it lay down road fabric before putting down any stone. It’ll prevent stone from going down and dirt/clay from coming up. That’ll save from adding so much stone over the years. It won’t totally prevent adding stone because it wears down with traffic. You can put down larger stone on the fabric first. As far as size everywhere in the country seems to call stone different things. Wish we could come up with a universal sizing system. The size of base rock will be dependent on the size of vehicles traversing your road. Light vehicle traffic you can get away with railroad ballast size. Big trucks you’d be better served putting down larger rock which what we call surge stone in Georgia. Then lock that larger stone in with a smaller rock or crusher run. Putting the fabric down also allows you to put a thinner layer overall than no fabric.
Another alternative to all of this, I bought an ABI SR3 grading rake and it can scarify the drive and bring buried rock back up to the surface so you don’t have to add so much rock overtime. This setup is best for a singular size stone drive, not drives with a surge base as you don’t want to bring that large rock up to the surface.
@@hoytballard5504 Great tips!
Use geo fabric under your gravel for areas driven over often. More upfront cost less additional gravel needed over the years. I personally use 825b which is essentially #57 which is what you have with some pieces a bit larger with the fines in it as well. The fines helps everything lock together.
I do wish I had invested in the geo fabric. But with a driveway this long, and building a house - I just didn't have the extra money at the time. The 53 loads of shale base was expensive enough. :)
@PurpleCollarLife I feel your pain. We are slowly but surely getting 26 acres back into shape after decades of not being used with a house to be started hopefully this year.
I just scheduled our annual delivery of 2B washed limestone for our driveway. We’ve tried river rock in a few places before but found that it doesn’t lock in and rolls out of place or off the road. I agree that the cost of gravel has gotten crazy, now above $700 per tri-axle.
Thanks for watching! I am very happy with how the limestone is packing in and locking together already. But the price - ouch!
I paid $900 for 25 tons of #4 in SW TN this summer.
Thanks for sharing!
Good evening Sir, OUTSTANDING informative video my friend 👍👌😇🍻
Thanks, Dave! We've been thinking about you. The loss of a best friend is hard.
$330 delivered for caliche for 1 tri-axle, chained and spread in Central Texas
Nice!
Where are you buying from? I’m in NWPA as well. Thanks.
We get it from Klapec’s usually.
I grew up referring to any crushed rock used as a road surface as gravel. You are the 2nd Pennsylvanian to use the term gravel to refer to river rock. Back in Central Wisconsin, all the gravel was crushed red granite and had an orangish color. Now that I live in the karst region of SE Minnesota, the only available gravel is crushed limestone. The limestone makes a great base, but eventually gets pulverized by heavy traffic. The harder granite lasted much longer.
Thanks for sharing! I always find it interesting to hear that different areas of the country (and world) refer to different items with different names. For example, we call an ice cream place a “tasty freeze” around here. I understand that other areas call them all “Dairy Queen” (even if they’re not that brand) or other names.
Why not excavate it properly and create a border to keep all the gravel tight?
Thanks for the comment. That's not the best way to make a driveway in our area - where we have wet space on both sides of the driveway. Here, you want your driveway on a bed of shale, raised up higher than the two sides. Then, when the sides get wet, the driveway is above that wet area, rather than the water all filling the driveway.
Crushed/recycled concrete is the absolute best way to go. It packs and no more pot holes . I did mine 5yrs ago with crushed concrete and have had no problems
Thanks for sharing! How small do they crush it down to?
They crush it to a gravel style no big chunks
It actually crushes better than gravel you won't have all the rocks
@@PurpleCollarLife You can get it in different sizes, a common size for driveways is #57 which is ~3/4". They use it a lot on large construction sites around the construction trailer and temporary parking lot.
For the amount of agrevation your putting on yourself, you should experiment with 50 or 100 feet of Portland cement and sand bags or bitiman and hot asphalt compare prices. Yes you can do pavement yourself. You can use your existing stone for cement the asphalt usually has finer stones.
Great info! This summer we actually did about 300 feet of this driveway with tar and chip (chip seal). th-cam.com/video/TaP3PsWhNr0/w-d-xo.html
I've had the best results using crusher run. It is far cheaper than other forms of limestone and packs as hard as asphalt. It is also easier to walk on.
Thanks for the info!
Yes, informative. SO many videos say to roll out an underlay, but I don't want anything not biodegradable spread out on my property, or wrapped around my house.
I wonder if a real road base installed at the start 20+ years ago would have been cheaper?
That's an interesting question. I'm not sure what you consider a "real road base". Ours was over 50 tri-axle loads of shale. I believe that's what is typically used as base for any roads I've seen built from scratch around here.
I like it
How much is a truck load cost????? Nobody mentions cost????
We talked about the truckload cost throughout this video. That’s the pricing we talk about. Remember - that was the pricing we paid, in our area, at the time the video was made.
If it where me, I would have cut in the roadway down 3" or so, put down a base of 3-4" crushed concrete or same size rock, topped it with cheap unfiltered sand, then put on the shale or limestone.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
Not sure where your at, but in Iowa all gravel IS limestone.
And it's yellow.
You can hear the difference from yours. Yours sounds like a harder material. Almost like granite. Ours is a soft sound and yes it breaks down.
River rock here is HARD smooth round stones that you could never use in a driveway. Only good for gardens and in concrete.
It's weird how stuffs different by location.
Can you please review the different Bad Boy Tractor Models?
Hi Brayden - thanks for watching!
Why didn't you just put down 8 oz road fabric as a base then you would get the quick sand effect?
22 years ago when we were putting in the driveway, I don't even remember if road fabric was a thing. If it was - I probably wouldn't have been able to afford it in our long drive way. It took over 50 triaxle loads of shale to establish the base after skimming off all the top soil. Thanks for watching! Happy New Year!!
38 dollars per ton in Allegany NY
Thanks!
You did it backwards. The limestone would have locked in a tight base 10-15 years sooner
That might be the case. Maybe I'm a slow learner. :)
@@PurpleCollarLifelike most of us. Slow in some, fast in others, and mostly medium for the majority.
i like how rather than have the sub grade properly engineered and compacted once and lay down geotextile fabric, he added hundreds of dollars of gravel per year for over two decades
Thank you for watching and giving me this opportunity to clarify. The sub grade was properly engineered and compacted. In 2000, before we built the house, all the the topsoil in what was going to be the driveway was removed, and over 50 triaxle loads of shale base was brought in and installed and compacted. Then the gravel was applied as a top coat over that. That is the proper way to do driveways and roadways (at least around here). That method is still used today for not only driveways, but also interstates and parking lots.
20 years ago, there was no talk of geotextile for driveways (at least not that I'm aware of), and certainly not for driveways as long as ours, being built in the middle of the woods. The cost of construction for a driveway like ours was high - even then - without geotextile, for me (a 20 something guy building a house in the middle of the woods) - we followed the best method possible. And having a long driveway means adding gravel regularly. If you have one, I'm sure you can understand.
MUST remove the topsoil first or you will have no stone left in short order as it compacts. you'll see
Great point. I should have mentioned - we did strip all the topsoil first, before the 53 triaxle loads of shale.
$225 a load for lime stone in southeast Missouri
That’s a nice price! Is that around 20 tons?
who uses round rock on a driveway?
Its 2-300 where i live 750 is crazy
Most of the cost here is the travel to our location. We live a distance from the gravel pits. Thanks!
@@PurpleCollarLife oooh yeah im ten minutes away from the quarry
Need geo fabric to keep that rock from disappearing
My question always is - where does it go??? :)
Its hard to believe the price i can get 2B limestone for 325 for 22 ton delivered
I wish we lived closer to a quarry!
Why did I watch this? I'm never going to build a gravel driveway.
Hopefully it was interesting. :)
@PurpleCollarLife
It was. But the truth is.... I like to feed the algorithm monster. I hit the like button too.
@@francus7227 You're very kind. Thanks for helping our channel!
$675 - 25 yard of limestone - March 2024 - Detroit.
Thanks for sharing! any idea what the weight of 25 yards of limestone is?
You should use modified it packs much better.
Thanks for watching!
You should have installed geo grid.
Thanks for watching. I'm not even sure if geo-grid was a thing 23+ years ago when we first built the driveway. If it was - it was probably beyond what we could spend. Establishing the driveway first took 53 tri-axle loads of shale. For about the first 3 years - we didn't have any top coat at all because of the expense of building a driveway in the woods.
@@PurpleCollarLife it’s been around a long time and very popular since the 80’s. You are right though adding tons and tons of rocks is cheaper than fabric. Even at today’s prices the fabric is cheap. I throw the stuff down just for fun in parking areas it’s so cheap. Someone should have said something to you 17 years ago when you build a new road every year for years instead of just maintaining it.
Did you make any money on this video, being it went viral im just curious.
Since when is round rock a good base? Round always moves. Crush rock doesn’t move as much. That’s why the stuff called road base is crushed limestone it compacts and locks
Thanks! I just wonder where the round rock will move to? Unless I'm on an incline and it rolls down hill, where will it go? We've done hundreds of tons of gravel (river rock) over the years. It isn't all laying along the sides of the driveway - so it must just crush down into the ground?
@@PurpleCollarLife I’d say the same thing if I was clueless also
I don't know, but seems to be the road base wasn't cleared to the sub soil, and and then a good base put down and compacted.
Instead just smoothed/leveled and gravel put on it. Unless there are some pumpy areas (always wet) shouldn't be that kind of settling from what I have seen. It certainly isn't cheap, but sounds like a lot of work was done over 22 years and probably cost more in the long run.
That said, you gotta do what you gotta do. Don't always have the ability for the best, sometimes just the good enough.
Thanks for the comment. Our base was actually created by removing all the top soil (bulldozer - that's why there are multiple piles of topsoil along our driveway to this day) over 50 tri-axle loads of shale (from a shale pit), then 22 years of gravel on top. :) I guess when you build a house in the woods, with a long driveway, it takes some time for it all to settle in.
@@PurpleCollarLife Thanks for the reply. If that is the case it would seem to show that smooth rocks are probably not the best road surface as they just continually move and no way for them to lock together like crushed stone to create a solid interlocked mat. Things to think about when building your long driveways for sure!
Try 3/4 minus- it will Harden like concrete
Thanks!
Damn doing that every year, asphalt is cheaper. My driveway lasted 20 yrs and its still ok. I payed $5000 in 2004. for 2800 sq ft. You will spend 8000 to 16,000 over 20 years.
We did get a more recent quote for asphalt - it was going to be $24,000 for our driveway and turn around. And then you also have the cost of sealing it every few years. It would be nice though to never have to get gravel again. :)
@@PurpleCollarLife sealant is a waste of money a driveway is destroyed from water/ice underneath. My first driveway lasted 19 yrs and I sealed it many times. The 2nd driveway is 20 yrs old never sealed it once, I will get 4-5 yrs more out of it. I payed $5000 for my last driveway .Sealing costs $200 so I would pay 5000 sealing it annually over 25 yrs ,sealant lasts 1 yr or less. best to put the 200 x25=5000 towards a new driveway.
Lime is very acidic and will corrode lots of stuff and ruin paint
Thanks. I did not know that.
limestone is alkaline and tends to neutralize acidic soils. Never had a problem with vehicles, grass , etc.
Absolutely the worst stuff for a bicycle to ride through. I wish I had never seen it, it is bringing back nightmares.
I’ve had a few close calls even on my dirt bike in that loose #3 gravel. :)
Just do DG. ?
What is DG?
I watched this twice and still cant figure out what he said!
Thanks for watching (twice)!
First of all river rock IS NOT GRAVEL. Second, why why would you use rounded river rock for your driveway?? Those rocks will never bond together and the reason you think they are "breaking apart" is that if you lay round rock, on round rock they snap easy under load. Think eggs in a basket if you must to understand. That is why your driveway keeps "disappearing".
River rock on river rock is basically a gravel slip and slide.
So sorry you waisted so much money over 20 years adding river rock on top of river rock just for "looks"
Jagged cut rocks (recycled cement) that is what gravel is. River rock are just large pebbles.
Always always use gravel (jagged cut rock) to build your gravel driveways.
Lay a good 3 inch layer of 3 to 4 inch jagged rock. Then add a layer of crushed jagged rock with fines in it and Compact it all together. THEN lay down a top coat of 1 to 2 inch jagged rock (gravel) and watch the bonding magic take place.
Just used a land level, than make a decision
Thanks for watching.
Well locally, limestone simply does not exist.
Just do pavement for the long run
That would be amazing. I last priced concrete for the driveway about 10 years ago and the price was unbelievable. I can only imagine what it would be now with today’s material and labor rates. Thanks for watching and leaving a comment!
Why do you say WE, when it was obviously YOU. 🤣
Since the channel is about our Purple Collar Life (me, my wife, and my daughter), I often say "We". :)
Do it once properly and you wont need to do it again.
Both are the same, gravel is crusher run limestone
Around here, gravel is river rock, typically a mix made up of sandstone.
@@PurpleCollarLife brik-a-brak I learn something
Limestone makes a mess
Thanks for watching.