@@bronzekoala9141 whole angular ecosystem is unnecessarily complicated and thats why nobody wants to work in this framework lmao, atleast angular devs are making bank lmao
watching this in 2024 after Svelte 5 entered release candidates stage. At 35:25 ThePrimeagen complains about not being able to mutate objects and just letting the garbage collector run wild and I'm thinking that he would be really happy to know that, in Svelte 5, state will be fully deeply reactive with mutations, not only assignments.
After You try Svelte, it's so hard to go back to React.......and it's not even all the big things, but even the small ones, like the one that You don't need to wrap jsx in "Fragments" if needed, css scoped to component, prop with default value is automatically "or undefined" ...all these small things gathered togethere just make it absolutely amazing experience. @ThePrimeTime why not putting this on Your main account ? :) Spread the Svelte Love!
ever since i started using Svelte, man nothing else can beat its simple way of solving annoying repoetitive things when building websites, add on that speed and the fact that it's JS inside HTML, super sweet
Comic Sans MS is a proprietary typeface owned by Microsoft and requires a license for commercial use. It is pre-installed on Windows and macOS but not on Android, iOS or Linux.
Bad that you didn't touch Svelte Stores and transitions. For me, they're the best Svelte features. Stores especially, because they finally nail the global state part. And it does it so well that I started to think why the hell stores in React had to be so absurdly complex
Stores are definitely one of my favorite features too! The only things that have come close are Zustand and Pinia, both really good options but neither of which gives quite the same feeling of simplicity and elegance as Svelte stores. I've never had so little trouble making as many stores as I wanted, each being easily customizable to any degree, and then having everything just plain work even though I had just learned it all ! Svelte still strikes me as something truly special in a field crowded with options.
Imagine writing JSX/TSX thinking it's a smooth experience and being one of those that picked "heard about it, not interested" for Svelte/SvelteKit in the StateOfJs annual survey. Rich Harris just understands not only what the user experience should be like but the developer experience should be like to. Great video. Thanks to both of you
If you're new to Svelte and/or coming from React, this video is literally a complete tutorial and also entertaining with actual questions that you might have Wow. You don't need to go anywhere else. I think it was more accurate to rename the title to "Svelte" instead of "SvelteKit" cause it doesn't really teach about SvelteKit or the concept of layouts, routes, and adapters.
The best feature is definitely the {#await} keyword. You can start a call, assign the promise somewhere, and have the UI automatically handle all possible states of the promise in a declarative way.
That part is so true 19:36. I've had a hard time integrating third party libraries in other frameworks especially in Next.js. But it was so easy and straightforward in SvelteKit. SvelteKit is just an amazingly easy framework and I really really like that.
Been running SvelteKit in prod since the early beta. Dealing with the breaking changes as it matured to full release was well worth it, and I would gladly make that same choice again.
Great conversation, especially the part where you broke the New York Times paywall It's just a shame you didn't get to address stores and transitions/animations during the conversation, they are in my opinion the best part of Svelte (some frameworks even have apis for state management but none using an open contract approach like Svelte)
The funniest thing to me is that all the concepts Prime reacts "wow!!" to, aren't all particularly new and most got introduced by Angular long time ago which is considered to be hated out of this world by the same people :D
I was just doing the svelte tutorial yesterday myself, and the error making it lose focus drove me nuts too. Other than that, it does seem like a nice introduction to Svelte. Edit: Also, what I think Rich Harris meant at 47:16 is that you could just have done: $: validated = name == "Hello world"; and it'd have worked
I've used Svelte daily for over a year and I still love it. Extremely minimal and straightforward. Stores are great. Docs are great. My hardest challenge was using the backend as a rest api as a internal database for forms but once I figured that out theres really nothing it can't do so far.
Unlike most people here i am a pretty new programmer. Ive written a few things and the Ecom site for my own business but that is about it. The tutorial and this video was well thought out enough even I got it...mostly. My Thanks gentlemen
The "You pee outside" got me! Props to you this was aawesome to watch! I constantly imagined this would be me during my technical Interview having to laugh all the time 😂
What Rich meant for the validated function was: $: validated = name === 'hello world' and then in the template part you could simply have {#if validated}
You can tell whoever coded this demo app did it in a Windows centric (Comic sans) and Chrome centric way (I wouldn't be surprised that all the issue Primagen found go away if you use Chrome).
I loved Rich Harris for his philosophy and approach to svelte and sveltekit but this is the first time I’m hearing and seeing him. Now I’m even more impressed. His humility is fantastic to see.
you know - I love understanding the ins and outs of stuff - great video - I just love to understand how things work - sooooo listening to rich talking about the actual coding that he and a group have done......wow --- thanks alot guys
On the little intermission about rust traits: that's just syntax sugar for function overloads on return types. Julia, Haskell and many other functional languages allow you to define custom operators on types to do the same thing, or even just using functions, there's nothing special about the dot operator. For some reason rust takes this roundabout overly explicit road just to do function overload on return types.
What you said about halfway, about Rust standard library types implementing your own traits but only when you import it, is also how it works in Kotlin (extension functions). For example, in Android you can import an extension function on the base "Int" type for sizing (using px or dp or whatever unit), so you can write things like 23.dp.
Talking about the rust part. Just because I'm interested in learning rust, when he shows the contains_range method, isn't it the same as c# extension methods? The difference being that it's scoped to that file though, like he mentioned. Oh yeah i just saw it's called extension traits (i know that rust has other stuff other than just that, too)
48:10 it feels like using a function here is sub-optimal, because it's going to re-render the block on every name change, whereas we only need to re-render on validation result change `$: validated = name == "whatever" // this reacts to the name changes ... {#if validated} // this reacts to the validation result changes`
Hey Rich, if you like watching people break stuff that normally works perfectly, you'd love watching me try to use stuff, because everything always breaks in the weirdest ways around me and people who know what they're talking about are always like.. that should not happen.
My only question to svelte is - does it have any limitations? Is there anything that we can build with react/angular/vue, that wouldn't be able to build with svelte?
Not with the purely view related part. So svelte vs react you would be able to build the same things, because they fill the same gap: reactivity between JS and the DOM it's all they do. It's a different story for SveleKit and Next. Next might be more advanced
"What is the best way to learn Svelte?"
"Learn React first - it'll be a great motivator"
haha, great line
Or Angular.... I like Angular but some obvious things are so unnecessarily complicated....
@@bronzekoala9141 whole angular ecosystem is unnecessarily complicated and thats why nobody wants to work in this framework lmao, atleast angular devs are making bank lmao
@@JEsterCW Well - I am one now 😂 although I'd rather have my company use svelte. But it's fine I'll get used to it.
@@JEsterCW i guess i need to look at my contract
I'm glad they did that stream. Rich Harris seems like a cool guy and this video with feedback from ThePrimeagen would help improve Svelte more.
I really enjoyed watching the face of Rich looking at Prime like :O the whole time. Like thinking, what's going to say this guy next? hahaha
watching this in 2024 after Svelte 5 entered release candidates stage. At 35:25 ThePrimeagen complains about not being able to mutate objects and just letting the garbage collector run wild and I'm thinking that he would be really happy to know that, in Svelte 5, state will be fully deeply reactive with mutations, not only assignments.
Awesome video! Very entertaining. I love svelte and rust! It’s hard to decide between all front end frameworks available though.
This was more of a Svelte lesson and not SvelteKit, since there was no data loading or retrieval
After You try Svelte, it's so hard to go back to React.......and it's not even all the big things, but even the small ones, like the one that You don't need to wrap jsx in "Fragments" if needed, css scoped to component, prop with default value is automatically "or undefined" ...all these small things gathered togethere just make it absolutely amazing experience. @ThePrimeTime why not putting this on Your main account ? :) Spread the Svelte Love!
37:45 the funniest moment :#
Excuse you react is a library
Should this be called "Rich Harris Teaches ThePrimeagen SvelteKit" or "ThePrimeagen teaches Rich Harris Rust"? :p
Oh, it’s like PHP.
There are many comparisons with React, but I believe Svelte should be compared to Vue.
Svelte has Syntax very similar to jinja2
49:26 could somebody please explain how does one write front end in Rust?
Wasm
I like the fact that Rich Harris does not pretend to know everything especially even things he has made himself lmao
It's called maturity.
he's not pretending or humble. he just works with a lot of code. too much for any one person to memorize.
You can't remember everything either
pretty sure he was referring to the inner workings of the tutorial "framework" - much of which he did not personally author
@@wadecodez plenty of people out there who will not admit that they don't know/ remember something. I give him a bit of credit
"ThePrimeagen teaches Rich Harris Rust"
Rich Harris is the man! So glad you guys did this.
ever since i started using Svelte, man nothing else can beat its simple way of solving annoying repoetitive things when building websites, add on that speed and the fact that it's JS inside HTML, super sweet
Comic Sans MS is a proprietary typeface owned by Microsoft and requires a license for commercial use. It is pre-installed on Windows and macOS but not on Android, iOS or Linux.
Bad that you didn't touch Svelte Stores and transitions. For me, they're the best Svelte features.
Stores especially, because they finally nail the global state part. And it does it so well that I started to think why the hell stores in React had to be so absurdly complex
Exactly what I was thinking!
Same. Transitions were enough for me, store is so insanely useful. Wonderful features.
Stores are definitely one of my favorite features too! The only things that have come close are Zustand and Pinia, both really good options but neither of which gives quite the same feeling of simplicity and elegance as Svelte stores. I've never had so little trouble making as many stores as I wanted, each being easily customizable to any degree, and then having everything just plain work even though I had just learned it all ! Svelte still strikes me as something truly special in a field crowded with options.
Stores nail state management like jQuery nails the DOM.
Stores in react are so absurdly verbose that they may cost you a job.
Imagine writing JSX/TSX thinking it's a smooth experience and being one of those that picked "heard about it, not interested" for Svelte/SvelteKit in the StateOfJs annual survey.
Rich Harris just understands not only what the user experience should be like but the developer experience should be like to.
Great video. Thanks to both of you
JSX is superior DX to svelte
@@ts8960absolutely not.
@@ts8960 are you drunk
3:30
Harris: I don't love doing it in front of an audience of 800 people
The people: 54k
gotem
If you're new to Svelte and/or coming from React, this video is literally a complete tutorial and also entertaining with actual questions that you might have Wow. You don't need to go anywhere else. I think it was more accurate to rename the title to "Svelte" instead of "SvelteKit" cause it doesn't really teach about SvelteKit or the concept of layouts, routes, and adapters.
The best feature is definitely the {#await} keyword. You can start a call, assign the promise somewhere, and have the UI automatically handle all possible states of the promise in a declarative way.
The Rick Roll Part😂
i got owned so hard
That part is so true 19:36. I've had a hard time integrating third party libraries in other frameworks especially in Next.js. But it was so easy and straightforward in SvelteKit. SvelteKit is just an amazingly easy framework and I really really like that.
Him: React is not a framework its a library
Rich: Thats absurd 😂😂
Rich is 100% correct
Svelte doesn’t get the love it deserves
it slowly does
It will one day, the way React & other frameworks are progressing. Future seems bright for Svelte.
Rich Harris has a great deal of patience 🙄
Is it me or does Rich's accent get increasingly South London as he eases into the interview
so ruby rails in rust? wait is it backwards? what? Ima confused #juniorprogramer.. I cant spell, wont**
Comic Sans MS on the discount Mac >_
Bro the rust part 🤣🤣🤣🤣 Caught Rich completely off guard.
gotem
Been running SvelteKit in prod since the early beta. Dealing with the breaking changes as it matured to full release was well worth it, and I would gladly make that same choice again.
Ah shit I’ve been wanting to learn Svelte(Kit) let’s go daddy
You gotta try F# with don syme or something if u love Rust, F# is pretty close and cool :D greate stream tho
Great conversation, especially the part where you broke the New York Times paywall
It's just a shame you didn't get to address stores and transitions/animations during the conversation, they are in my opinion the best part of Svelte (some frameworks even have apis for state management but none using an open contract approach like Svelte)
The funniest thing to me is that all the concepts Prime reacts "wow!!" to, aren't all particularly new and most got introduced by Angular long time ago which is considered to be hated out of this world by the same people :D
AngularJS?
I was just doing the svelte tutorial yesterday myself, and the error making it lose focus drove me nuts too. Other than that, it does seem like a nice introduction to Svelte.
Edit:
Also, what I think Rich Harris meant at 47:16 is that you could just have done:
$: validated = name == "Hello world";
and it'd have worked
yeah! it was very fun!
I've used Svelte daily for over a year and I still love it. Extremely minimal and straightforward. Stores are great. Docs are great. My hardest challenge was using the backend as a rest api as a internal database for forms but once I figured that out theres really nothing it can't do so far.
Unlike most people here i am a pretty new programmer. Ive written a few things and the Ecom site for my own business but that is about it. The tutorial and this video was well thought out enough even I got it...mostly. My Thanks gentlemen
:)
The "You pee outside" got me!
Props to you this was aawesome to watch! I constantly imagined this would be me during my technical Interview having to laugh all the time 😂
that is good! want to make sure people feel amazing
The smell is awesome after a month
God I hate react and I like svelt
What Rich meant for the validated function was:
$: validated = name === 'hello world'
and then in the template part you could simply have
{#if validated}
Rich Harris is amazing. Insanely smart but more importantly -- relatable and humble.
You can tell whoever coded this demo app did it in a Windows centric (Comic sans) and Chrome centric way (I wouldn't be surprised that all the issue Primagen found go away if you use Chrome).
Rich is awesome. Love watching his interviews.
Earned my like after just hanging out by the fireplace together! Amazing vids, Primeagen!
Svelte seems amazing, so simple, so effective.
If you value your life learn svelte
If you want a job...
Just learn svelte, there are jobs for svelte and it also values your life
I loved Rich Harris for his philosophy and approach to svelte and sveltekit but this is the first time I’m hearing and seeing him. Now I’m even more impressed. His humility is fantastic to see.
At 18:55 prime just casually reaches into rich's chest lol
To see if it was beating? If it was cold? Why?
I don't like when people mention their wealth before last name. That means I'm Poor Rootster... don't like it...😥. Great video 🥰
Wow ryan gosling is a programmer
you know - I love understanding the ins and outs of stuff - great video - I just love to understand how things work - sooooo listening to rich talking about the actual coding that he and a group have done......wow --- thanks alot guys
man you youtubers are so lucky , you get to learn from who build sveltekit
27:00 It's preaching time
On the little intermission about rust traits: that's just syntax sugar for function overloads on return types. Julia, Haskell and many other functional languages allow you to define custom operators on types to do the same thing, or even just using functions, there's nothing special about the dot operator. For some reason rust takes this roundabout overly explicit road just to do function overload on return types.
framework/compiler i love the most past 4 years XD
we need a part 2 of this !!
What you said about halfway, about Rust standard library types implementing your own traits but only when you import it, is also how it works in Kotlin (extension functions). For example, in Android you can import an extension function on the base "Int" type for sizing (using px or dp or whatever unit), so you can write things like 23.dp.
For once, can someone name a library that can't be used with React out of the box? 19:40
does he just move fast to seem like he knows what he's doing? he seems a bit dense on many of these topics..
37:44 🤣🤣🤣 see that pain in the face ThePrim😂gen when Rich says he's a vs code user 😅
this seems much more sensical than react
Two poor fellas who got a new life:
labels in js
Enums in Rust
Now I wanna write something in Svelte.
Young Barbara Moore Patricia Taylor Barbara
Everyone got Rick Rolled lol
This might be the best resource to learn svelte
Talking about the rust part. Just because I'm interested in learning rust, when he shows the contains_range method, isn't it the same as c# extension methods? The difference being that it's scoped to that file though, like he mentioned.
Oh yeah i just saw it's called extension traits
(i know that rust has other stuff other than just that, too)
Where’s the rest? :(
18:50 Prime suddenly reaching into Rich's rib cage sent me
48:10 it feels like using a function here is sub-optimal, because it's going to re-render the block on every name change, whereas we only need to re-render on validation result change
`$: validated = name == "whatever" // this reacts to the name changes
...
{#if validated} // this reacts to the validation result changes`
Im so upset there are no svelte jobs in my country, it seems like a step up from vue as far as dx goes.
Yes, indeed! And crearly Svelte took plenty of things from Vue, which ensured its good DX, and these guys took it even further :)
everything you told about rust was literally just copied from Haskell...
This seems like a worse React from some salty devs 🙈 at least they kept JSX
Lmao what? Working with Svelte is around 10 times more enjoyable.
29:35 So it's like extension of some sort(swift have those, for example), but just because it's in rust it's automatically magical?
Theo still doesn’t know that Vue has used signals for years and has a very similar pattern with the composition API.
so much crap going on in the demo that you can't even write hello slow enough. that's web developers for ya
holy shit! i cant believe this is happening
this looks really like webcomponents, wondering is it using webcomponents underneath?
Do how I access the requested URL in server components with the new app directory? I just can't figure it out!
where is the rest? I want the full tutorial! Did you boot Rich Harris?!? XD
Svelte is great, but documentation sucks. Hope they include ssr streaming
No joke, Svelte saved my life... I nearly gave up from all the React bullshit.
Reminds SwiftUI very much. I think will definitely try Svelte for front-end part
lmao the Rust rant :D
I can't understand a lot of what they're saying, and that scares me out
i am not a react funboy but svelte needs optimization it needs time for us to make sure it works the way it should
I love that I stumbled across this video as im about to start learning Svelte. No better way to start than right here :D thanks for the video
7:14 - “did you really just do this to me?” 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Your colon is on the wrong side, Prime! You'd better see your doctor.
Came after reading Now that React is Dead, What is the next Big Thing?
Should I learn Rust?
_ Rich Harris_😅
Hey Rich, if you like watching people break stuff that normally works perfectly, you'd love watching me try to use stuff, because everything always breaks in the weirdest ways around me and people who know what they're talking about are always like.. that should not happen.
Funny reaction from Prime when Rich says React is a framework
It's clear that... it's a firewall betwen them :)..
Listen Rich don't learn Rust Learn GO! 😒
if its not comic sans ms then its cursive.
Linux has a ms fonts package
My only question to svelte is - does it have any limitations? Is there anything that we can build with react/angular/vue, that wouldn't be able to build with svelte?
Not with the purely view related part. So svelte vs react you would be able to build the same things, because they fill the same gap: reactivity between JS and the DOM it's all they do.
It's a different story for SveleKit and Next. Next might be more advanced