Orthodox Ecclesiology - Lesson 2: The Unity of the Church and the Mystery of Baptism
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ก.ย. 2024
- The Unity of the Church and the Mystery of Baptism
This is the second lesson of our 10 week course, "Orthodox Ecclesiology: The One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church and the Pan-Heresy of Syncretistic Ecumenism".
To live stream on TUE., Feb. 2rd @ 9 PM EST, 6 PM PST.
This is the second lessson of a 10 week course, which also includes - for all patrons - a separate 2 hour Q&A session every Thursday @ 9 PM EST, 6 PM PST. (To become a patron visit: / frpeterheers .
This second lesson will be live-streamed on The Orthodox Ethos TH-cam Channel, as well as via Facebook (both our profile and page, as well as the Orthodox Survival Course group).
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In Lesson Two, we will look at the early approach to the boundaries of the Church and, in particular, the Mystery of Baptism as (together with Chrismation and Communion) the rite of initiation by considering some of the most fundamental sources of Holy Tradition in the 3rd century, such as the Treatise on Church Unity by St. Cyprian of Carthage, the epistle of St. Firmilian of Caesarea and the so-called “Baptism Controversy”, as well as the Fourth Century teaching of the Church Fathers, such as St. Basil the Great and St. John Chrysostom, but also with the help of contemporary dogmatic theologians who have remained faithful to their understanding and vision - that of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church throughout the ages.
It is hard to underestimate the importance of acquiring the Orthodox outlook on the Church in this day and age of syncretistic ecumenism and the rise of the spirit of Antichrist! To truly entrust oneself to Christ and come to the experiential knowledge of Christ is to experience Him as Body of Christ and to enter into the Mystery of the Incarnation of which the Church is the continuation.
In this 10 week course we will survey the great monuments of our Faith IN the Church, i.e. Christ, including the key writings of the Saints, Holy Fathers and Oecumencial Councils.
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Thank you Fr. I came from a protestant confession but I was received by baptism in ROCOR. Even though I insisted on it, I'm quite sure my priest would have received me by baptism anyways. Glory to God!
My goodness! It's 01/23, I am just getting to this lecture.
It's as per His time, in my life that I should give ear to this lecture.
Very well delivered. Thank you Father Peter.
XPISTOS ANESTI!!!
God Bless you my dear Father.
I view you as a pillar of the One Holy Apostolic.
A pillar just holds up what was built by others and stands on the ground and foundation laid by Christ and the Apostles.
Top favorite fellas here, Glory to God for His faithful servants, thank you Father for helping us🕊The patreon account is a ✨treasure✨, btw, to those curious--it’s a good place to be. 🙏🏽
Thank you Father! Glory to God!
Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me. Teach me to listen and trust all is in Your hands. Amen.
Thank you Fr. Peter, I can't begin to tell you how valuable your teachings are, thank you, I can't wait to be able to truly call you brother/father or whatever is the correct address. God bless & keep you in Christ Christ forever.
The church i attend has never asked anyone to leave, at what point do I exit? Eucharist procession? When the people (children) line up to receive? There's no catacumins at the moment so I'm not sure when they are prayed for. Sorry for the 3rd edit.
Outstanding presentation. God bless you for making this series on Ecclesiology.
God bless ! Thank you for all these lessons. The more we "know" God, the better we love Him, the more we experience Him; we are for many the only bible that they will read in us. Our shepherds watch over the flock of lambs, by our behavior other lambs will follow us.
"Nothing is colder than a Christian indifferent to the salvation of others ... Do not say:" It is impossible for me to influence others ", because If you are a Christian, it is impossible for it not to happen. not produce. Just as what is in nature is incontestable, so also here: it is a fact which belongs to the nature of the Christian. Don't insult God. If you say the sun can't shine, you're insulting God. If you say that the Christian cannot be useful, you insult God, you make him a liar. It is easier for the sun not to give off heat or light, it would be easier for the light to be the same as darkness than for the Christian not to shine.
Do not say that it is impossible: it is the opposite which is impossible. Don't insult God. If we orient our life well, all of this will happen, by some sort of natural consequence. The light of the Christian cannot escape no one, such a bright torch cannot be hidden by anyone. "
-Saint John Chrysostom
forgive me for my bad english
Thank you, Father.
We need a lecture on saint Augustine, not on his errors (we have that) but on the history of his reception within the Church, reviews and feedbacks to the saint Augustine of other Orthodox fathers. Shortly, st. Augustine and the Sacred Tradition. This is important because we evaluate things based on how the Church views them, and even if we think we know all the smart answers, we need to know what the Church fathers have been saying throughout the centuries. Thank you and God bless!
Exactly. Which parts of his theology and spirituality do we accept and which should we disregard.
@kyrieeleison7535 it's ok to read fr Seraphim Rose of blessed memory, but this is what everyone does by default, but Saint Augustin is ancient father, since that time I'm pretty sure we have more evidence and feedback then father Seraphim
Ευλογείτε Πατέρα. Ευχαριστούμε.
35:14 I never realized, until now, why the drug in Brave New World was called "Soma". It's both as a blasphemy of the Eucharist, and a reference to their complete slavery to the passions.
I noticed that too when I read it in high school. One of the many benefits of knowing general Greek terms.
Father bless thanks so much for your great labour's. A deeply edifying presentation as always! 😊🙏☦
This study saddens me.
I recently heard Birmingham has a huge festival.
Prince Charles and his lady fair was there.
There was a large fire eye, mechanical bull that came out as they made a circle around it bowing...
Frightening when I saw how many there was cheering and so happy about this event.
I shake my head knowing there's nothing new under the sun that God has not prepared for. We must prepare too.
I pray that the Lord keeps raining down His spirit and grace among the vain and decived.
🕊.... ❤
Thank you Father. Very well put together 👍
thank you Fr
Regarding a saint rejecting another saints teachings, take into consideration St. Dionysius of Alexandria Who refuted Nepos, bishop of arsenoe, who taught the 1000 year reign was to be on earth. They had a council, refuted the false doctrine, a false doctrine even Ireneaus believed as well. Once refuted, the church repented of it.
I was baptized as an infant in a Protestant Church in the name of the Trinity, and am now a member some nearly 50 years later of the Orthodox Faith, having been Chrismated. Is St Cyprian saying that my baptism is null and void? If that's true then what do I do and why would the Church bring me in without being Baptized?
Watch the video at around 1:29:00 he discusses economia
Paul, We will address at length the question of “oikonomia” in next week’s class. We’ll see you then.
@@Yallquietendown Thanks Bryan
@@OrthodoxEthos Awesome, Thank You!!
Dear Paul, your baptism may have been "null and void", but you have been received nonetheless to Holy Chrismation and Holy Communion with the express approbation of your bishop. It is up to your bishop to decide, St Cyprian is giving his opinion and what seems to be the early traditional catholic view, confirmed by several local councils, but still he says that he does not refuse communion with or excommunicate those who do not agree with him. In fact, it was Stephen of Rome who wanted to excommunicate him because Cyprian just wanted to follow the tradition of his local Church, shared by many other Churches, rather than just obey the Roman view. Stephen's behavior was against the evangelical "unity in the bond of charity". Cyprian was firm in his own view, but did not claim to impose it on everyone.
Father bless,
If I'm not mistaken, Pope Stephen I was later martyred and is now glorified as a saint. Did he repent later, or what happened? All the sources I could find said he had a disagreement with St. Cyprian, and then jump-cut to his martyrdom.
I want to put together a book which presents the teachings about baptism from scripture, councils, church father writings, etc. But I just cant get motivated because I know very few people will actually acknowledge the information, and those who will they will probably already know the truth. Its super frustrating. IRL not many clergy do what is right these days. Theres all this pressure to do the tradition the right way but then the church ministers dont meet you half way so what are you meant to do, just live like a protestant... The more I examine the church fathers the more I realize true real genuine whatever orthodoxy is actually very rare throughout history and most people are really just strangers passing through this world and life without any examination of the truth, its frustrating.
🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏✝️✝️✝️✝️✝️✝️🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹
I have not finished this ecclesiology lesson so am commenting prematurely, but I just read in the Didache last night about the 3 forms of baptism: in living water, if not that than in cold water (or warm if there is no cold), and finally poured thrice over the head if necessary--and always in the name of the Holy Trinity. Fr Peter is the Didache a part of Orthodox tradition? I will finish video and perhaps delete this comment if you already address this question. Regardless, thank you, Fr!☦️
Of course it is at the heart of the holy tradition. You have presented the text as saying that “there are three forms of baptism” as if any three forms are good for any condition or situation, which is not the case. It clearly says that one should be immersed in running water. Period. And then only *if that is not possible* to resort to the other methods, including pouring.
This matter is addressed by the Fathers of the 18 century explicitly in their examination of the acceptability of applying economy to the pouring or sprinkling done in Latin ministrations.
In lesson seven in our examination of Latin baptism by pouring we have this witness:
The West maintained that their baptism in no way differed from the Apostolic baptism. Oikonomos, however, responds that ‘’affusion’’ (i.e. pouring), and much less ‘’aspersion’’ (i.e. sprinkling), cannot ever be considered baptism. The first is an ‘’uncanonical innovation,’” while the second is ‘’unscriptural’’ and void of the character of the ‘’proper and true baptism,’’ according to the holy Fathers. Of course, Oikonomos is not referring here to cases of ‘’emergency’’ baptism, which even he does not rule out. These, however, are performed within the Church, in contrast to those who receive the ‘’baptism’’ of whichever heresy and who thus receive death instead of life. What he has in mind here is what is done ‘’without urgent necessity,’’ being a practice arbitrarily sanctioned in the West. This practice began with Pope Stephen I (253-257), and was dogmatized by the Council of Trent (1545-1563), in accordance with the spirit of the West to ‘’canonize’’ and legalize every innovation. But in no way can this innovation be justified, being as it is a practice ‘’odious to God,’’ for it destroys the sacrament’s God-ordered oneness.”
@@OrthodoxEthos Thank you, Fr Peter
Btw, Fr, I am new to Holy Orthodoxy so please forgive me I did not mean to insinuate or interpret the Didache incorrectly. I just want to do the right thing and know the Truth. God bless you ☦️
@@OrthodoxEthos Isn’t this similar to receiving the Lord under one kind? Yes, there are cases where someone might bring Jesus “in one kind” in the viaticum to someone sick/dying. However, the norm is the eucharist in “both kinds” in the Church from an ordained man, correct?
♥️💛💙
Did Abraham and the prophets need to be baptized before entering Paradise with Christ in his Resurrection?
No, in the Old Covenant they had a type of baptism, that is circumcision : you had to be circumcised in order to be part of the "People of God", of Israel ; in the same way, you have to be taught and baptized to be part of the Church, the New Israel. According to ancient tradition, the Righteous and the Prophets of the Old Covenant were preached the Gospels by Christ in Hades during the journey of Christ's soul there after His Passion and before his Resurrection. Just like the "Good Lad" on the cross, they were given entrance into the Kingdom by Christ Himself directly, because they were part of the People of God, kept the commandments and believed in Christ even before His Incarnation (cf. St Paul on Abraham as having seen and known Christ through private revelation, as for the Prophets). In fact, Baptism becomes the rule in the New Covenant, it is the normative way given by Christ Himself (who was Himself baptized by St John the Precursor as a model, the descent of the Spirit as a dove showing that in Christ water baptism becomes also Holy Spirit baptism) for regeneration in eternal life and access to His life-giving Blood and Flesh (baptism+chrismation cannot be separated from the Eucharist, for all the Mysteries are intimately bound together and express the unity of the faith, of the Body, of the Church). Hope this helps!
@@theophan9530 thank you for your response, I was aware of the types of baptisms they received and that they went to hades until the descent of Christ. My main question is, when Christ descended, were they baptized? Or are you saying that the preaching and presence of of Christ was their baptism?
Like the thief the Lord received them into His Presence which is paradise.
@@diegobarragan4904 About such details there is no traditional information that I can give you. What is neither in Scripture nor in Holy Tradition, no one can know, and it's probably best that way.
poor sound quality
I am sorry that. You are the first person to say this. I am sure that you thought of this, but just in case it escaped you: did you turn up your volume all the way?
Would you like a vinyl ???
Glory to God! Thank you, Father.