Upon a sporting team from my school visiting Eton ~25 years ago, an Etonian asked one of them 'what is it like coming from a second rate public school?' 🙄. Fortunately he replied 'I don't know, I've only just got here.' 😂
I did my PhD thesis on the House of Lords, and part of it was the procedure in the House of Lords, but particularly on the links to the manifesto, with an international comparison. The Australian Senate can potentially be very strong, as strong as the US sentate, but it has become significantly more reticent over using its powers
Has it? The governing party has had a senate majority for a lot of the last decade via its own senators and conservative independents. Lets see what happens this sitting.
Labour will not discuss PR because it is not a clear win in the battle for the votes of floating voters in marginal constituencies; in fact, even if it were, countering Tory fptp arguments detracts from debating the issues which are important to those voters. (Chris Taylor's rhetorical question Rory read out hits the nail on the head: if asked about PR, they can respond with "We're going to reform the Lords".) The only argument which will convince Starmer and his associates is "You will lose in 2028 (or 2029) under fptp", which can't convincingly be made until at least 2027. The trouble is, it may not be convincing until its too late to legislate.
We have compulsory ID in the Netherlands. When I tell Dutch people that the UK has no ID cards, their jaws drop and they ask how can you run a country without ID cards. The answer is you can't. Offial population is what 66 million. The real figure is something like 10 million more (by supermarket sales and seage procesing).
That's pretty insane. One would think a digital population register would be essential for a developed, modernized state. Most notably, it is required for automatic voter registration.
There will always be people that never officially “exist” in a population as most countries have illegal immigrants. It might be more easy to spot illegal immigrants if they have to produce a card at the hospital though.
Interesting Rory couldn't outright condemn the current ID plan when it clearly discriminates against younger and poorer people who tend not to vote Tory. ID cards would be better but that's not the plan.
Another way of making upper-house more democratic without causing the deadlock issue is to let regional governments appoint representatives (as is the case in Germany and European Union). The upper-house would have limited power, such as needing absolute majority to veto a bill, but they would still have some degree of influence. This would however require UK to transition to a federal system.
I think the 'regional' system works in organisations that come from a heavily fragmented background (the EU, Germany, Italy, Spain). In countries that have a strong centralisation tradition - and a dominant 'partner' - such as England in the UK, I don't think it would work well.
@@dlevi67 Really? The UK seems rather fragmented looking from the outside. I agree the system is designed to favor centralization, but it seems that model is starting to go out of date. Events like Scottish independence, Northern Ireland drama, red wall flipping blue, and Brexit all seems to signal certain reform is in order, and it's not necessarily viable to solve everything with London as centre of authority. One possible alternative is certain degree of decentralization.
@@QuantumWalnut The problem is, one of the four parts of the UK has 84% of the country's population. The US federal system would break down if California had 84% of the population.
@@georgesdelatour But administrative divisions do not necessarily need to match the 4 regions, do they? For instance, Scotland, Wales, and NI can remain individual division, whereas England can be divided into multiple divisons. They could all be treated as 2nd level divisions each with regional parliament. There are many ways of configuring this system.
@@QuantumWalnut Do you understand the West Lothian Question? As soon as you factor it in, you’ll see why your Lords reform scheme is far more difficult than you seem to realise. 1) Large areas of government (e.g. education, health, transport, policing) have now been devolved to the Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish parliaments. Those parliaments - especially the one in Edinburgh - will go crazy if the reformed second chamber attempts any oversight of their powers whatsoever. The Scots in particular will not stand for any vote involving non-Scottish members of the second chamber restricting the freedom of action of the government in Edinburgh. 2) England does not have its own purely English parliament. All English government on all matters happens only in Westminster. This creates the “West Lothian” anomaly, by which Scottish (and Welsh and Northern Irish) MPs at Westminster have the power to vote on laws which only affect England, while English MPs have no equivalent power to vote on laws which only affect Scotland. As long as the party (or coalition) which wins a UK general election also commands a majority in England, this anomaly is bearable by the English. 3) Even if you artificially fragment England in the second chamber, the English will only accept an elected second chamber influencing a law which only affects England if no Scottish, Welsh or Northern Irish second chamber MPs vote on it. 4) Under the current chaotic system, members of the House of Lords don’t represent any geographical area or constituency. They simply represent themselves as individuals. Democracy-wise that may look bad, but it means their disagreements with the Commons don’t exacerbate tensions between the four nations.
The population of the UK is nearly 70 million. If it costs 180 million for ID cards per decade, the cost is £2.57 each. Are you sure your figures are correct?
Very sad? It is typical of private schools through my 80 years as a UK Citizen. Take away their charity status and bring in an eccellent state education for the UK. The education I was offered here was shit--reading saved me not schooling. In Canada went to Sir George Williams University now named Concordia. One Lecturer gave me three A's my Candian wife who studied there told me was the Lecturer telling me he could do no better. Eton and all the Public schools are shit in every way. Not convinced, read Orewell or Robert Graves on their schooling with so many others. CLOSE them down. Qatar bought the World Cup. See Johnny Harris video on that and on the misuse of bought in Labourers used as Slaves with 6,500 dead from intolerable conditions and more made sick for life.
Rory, if the Eton thing was "part of a generalised coarsening of political debate" then the state school kids would have been booing at the Etonians. It isn't generalised. It is entirely on one side. No more false both-sidesism please. Leave that to the likes of T***p.
In my opinion, the more fundemental question about House of Lords is why do you need it if UK is an unitary state? One can argue a federal polity such as US, Germany, or EU need an upper house to ensure stability, but since UK does not have a federal system, why even have an upper house?
@@lutherblissett9070 Probably for the best. UK always made more sense as a federation to me. The sheer size and diversity of the country practically explains itself.
In general terms I support ID cards, pure common sense. The Tories bringing it in now is definitely to discourage votes for the opposition. Everyone who needs one should have it at no cost; Driving Licence holders probably wouldn't need a separate card.
I think you need a revising chamber with at least as much power as the current HoL has. I fear a House of Commons without someone to tell them "Not yet, not now, not this way." Nigel Farage wants Proportional Representation because it's the only way he gets into Parliament. Do we have to pay for these ID cards? Because a) I'm well off enough to have a passport. (80% of Britons have that.) but b) there are a lot of people where the price of a passport (and last time it was proposed the cost of an ID card was about a tenner less than a passport) is quite prohibitive. Oh and c) Damned if I'm paying for a new form of ID when I have a valid passport.
We will certainly pay for an ID card. Mabye not when we receive it but hen we pay out of general taxation. It would be possible to issue an ID card with every passport. Many countries insist that UK tourists carry identification. Passports are clumsy and easily damaged.
@@Wearywillie-x5t If it's going to happen then I want it paid for through general taxation in order to prevent the exclusion and exploitation of those who can't afford it. I'm not convinced that the Home Office could find all British passport holders to send them an ID card. It would be a huge mess given the current levels of competence being displayed by the department.
Oh, we Brits do get in a twist when we hear of bad behaviour at public or independent schools, don't we? Name calling, race or gender or culturally based derogatory banter is never acceptable, of course, but do these critics think such behaviour doesn't happen in state schools too? If they do, then I suggest they visit any secondary school in their neighbourhood soon. This doesn't excuse Eton, but ironically it makes it more typical of schools in general, rather than exceptional.
the obvious union is between neo liberal conservatives and labour, these two are no differant at all, so whats the point of voting labour, we need change we need PR
The English habit of pretending that nothing should change - in fact that we should move back to how things were _"before"_ - when a revolution is necessary dates at least to Henry II, but is Starmer a good replacement for a great king?
I have three daughters aged 15 to 20 they are all very keen on ID cards for the purpose of being served in Pubs. Can't see it as a problem for the future of voting.
Someone needs to sue Eaton for what it's done to those children from the state school the emotional and psychological distress that those girls must have face because of their ethnicity is alarming, the school needs to pay for the lack of protection it offer those students on its premises and the children from Eaton that conducted themselves in this way should be the ones to pay the price
You would have thought the parents of Eton students would have taught them not to bother with papers like the Daily Mail there only for keeping working people down!
Upon a sporting team from my school visiting Eton ~25 years ago, an Etonian asked one of them 'what is it like coming from a second rate public school?' 🙄. Fortunately he replied 'I don't know, I've only just got here.' 😂
I did my PhD thesis on the House of Lords, and part of it was the procedure in the House of Lords, but particularly on the links to the manifesto, with an international comparison. The Australian Senate can potentially be very strong, as strong as the US sentate, but it has become significantly more reticent over using its powers
Has it? The governing party has had a senate majority for a lot of the last decade via its own senators and conservative independents. Lets see what happens this sitting.
Didn't know you were on here, always download your podcast.
Labour will not discuss PR because it is not a clear win in the battle for the votes of floating voters in marginal constituencies; in fact, even if it were, countering Tory fptp arguments detracts from debating the issues which are important to those voters. (Chris Taylor's rhetorical question Rory read out hits the nail on the head: if asked about PR, they can respond with "We're going to reform the Lords".) The only argument which will convince Starmer and his associates is "You will lose in 2028 (or 2029) under fptp", which can't convincingly be made until at least 2027. The trouble is, it may not be convincing until its too late to legislate.
We have compulsory ID in the Netherlands. When I tell Dutch people that the UK has no ID cards, their jaws drop and they ask how can you run a country without ID cards. The answer is you can't. Offial population is what 66 million. The real figure is something like 10 million more (by supermarket sales and seage procesing).
That's pretty insane. One would think a digital population register would be essential for a developed, modernized state. Most notably, it is required for automatic voter registration.
The UK has a lot of tourists. When my family visits they eat at-home with the relatives.
But those illegal immigrants wouldn’t get a card so how would it give us more data?
There will always be people that never officially “exist” in a population as most countries have illegal immigrants. It might be more easy to spot illegal immigrants if they have to produce a card at the hospital though.
thank you.
PR, Federalism and Reform of The House of Lords should all be on the agenda for Labour for its next Manifesto.
Very good pronunciation of Taoiseach. Chapeau!
Interesting Rory couldn't outright condemn the current ID plan when it clearly discriminates against younger and poorer people who tend not to vote Tory. ID cards would be better but that's not the plan.
Another way of making upper-house more democratic without causing the deadlock issue is to let regional governments appoint representatives (as is the case in Germany and European Union). The upper-house would have limited power, such as needing absolute majority to veto a bill, but they would still have some degree of influence.
This would however require UK to transition to a federal system.
I think the 'regional' system works in organisations that come from a heavily fragmented background (the EU, Germany, Italy, Spain). In countries that have a strong centralisation tradition - and a dominant 'partner' - such as England in the UK, I don't think it would work well.
@@dlevi67 Really? The UK seems rather fragmented looking from the outside. I agree the system is designed to favor centralization, but it seems that model is starting to go out of date.
Events like Scottish independence, Northern Ireland drama, red wall flipping blue, and Brexit all seems to signal certain reform is in order, and it's not necessarily viable to solve everything with London as centre of authority. One possible alternative is certain degree of decentralization.
@@QuantumWalnut The problem is, one of the four parts of the UK has 84% of the country's population. The US federal system would break down if California had 84% of the population.
@@georgesdelatour But administrative divisions do not necessarily need to match the 4 regions, do they?
For instance, Scotland, Wales, and NI can remain individual division, whereas England can be divided into multiple divisons. They could all be treated as 2nd level divisions each with regional parliament.
There are many ways of configuring this system.
@@QuantumWalnut Do you understand the West Lothian Question? As soon as you factor it in, you’ll see why your Lords reform scheme is far more difficult than you seem to realise.
1) Large areas of government (e.g. education, health, transport, policing) have now been devolved to the Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish parliaments. Those parliaments - especially the one in Edinburgh - will go crazy if the reformed second chamber attempts any oversight of their powers whatsoever. The Scots in particular will not stand for any vote involving non-Scottish members of the second chamber restricting the freedom of action of the government in Edinburgh.
2) England does not have its own purely English parliament. All English government on all matters happens only in Westminster. This creates the “West Lothian” anomaly, by which Scottish (and Welsh and Northern Irish) MPs at Westminster have the power to vote on laws which only affect England, while English MPs have no equivalent power to vote on laws which only affect Scotland. As long as the party (or coalition) which wins a UK general election also commands a majority in England, this anomaly is bearable by the English.
3) Even if you artificially fragment England in the second chamber, the English will only accept an elected second chamber influencing a law which only affects England if no Scottish, Welsh or Northern Irish second chamber MPs vote on it.
4) Under the current chaotic system, members of the House of Lords don’t represent any geographical area or constituency. They simply represent themselves as individuals. Democracy-wise that may look bad, but it means their disagreements with the Commons don’t exacerbate tensions between the four nations.
The population of the UK is nearly 70 million. If it costs 180 million for ID cards per decade, the cost is £2.57 each. Are you sure your figures are correct?
Very sad? It is typical of private schools through my 80 years as a UK Citizen. Take away their charity status and bring in an eccellent state education for the UK. The education I was offered here was shit--reading saved me not schooling. In Canada went to Sir George Williams University now named Concordia. One Lecturer gave me three A's my Candian wife who studied there told me was the Lecturer telling me he could do no better. Eton and all the Public schools are shit in every way. Not convinced, read Orewell or Robert Graves on their schooling with so many others. CLOSE them down. Qatar bought the World Cup. See Johnny Harris video on that and on the misuse of bought in Labourers used as Slaves with 6,500 dead from intolerable conditions and more made sick for life.
Same thing with the NHS. If we make it so any mp has to use the NHS and public schools only, they’d fix it immediately
Tell me is thsat Rory walking behind Prince, now King, Charles on page 61 of the latest issue of Chap magazine. Methinks it is.
If voter ID isn't about voter suppression, then ID cards should be sent to every voter free of charge; like they are in Northern Ireland.
You don't have a passport?
@@edfash9976 Lots of people don't have passports Ed.
@@edfash9976 Passport was like 60 quid and isn’t instant. Do you reckon it would be poor people caught out or the upper class with that??
@@the0nlytrueprophet942 I roughly live on £100 per month after bills. I can afford a passport
@@nicholasbethell2921 yea immigrants
Rory, if the Eton thing was "part of a generalised coarsening of political debate" then the state school kids would have been booing at the Etonians.
It isn't generalised. It is entirely on one side.
No more false both-sidesism please. Leave that to the likes of T***p.
In my opinion, the more fundemental question about House of Lords is why do you need it if UK is an unitary state?
One can argue a federal polity such as US, Germany, or EU need an upper house to ensure stability, but since UK does not have a federal system, why even have an upper house?
UK might move to a federal constitution given what is happening with Scotland and Northern Ireland.
@@lutherblissett9070 Probably for the best. UK always made more sense as a federation to me. The sheer size and diversity of the country practically explains itself.
May I introduce you to the country of France?
@@bybycorleone Is there something about France that makes you think upper house has a place in unitary states?
@@QuantumWalnut well France is an unitary state, can be argued to be the unitary state, and has an upper house
Real PR voting NOW! NOT AV
This obsession with reforming the Lords is a silly. It actually works quite well.
Something unfair in voting.. Alliance NI got 17 seats
Jim MCALLISTER WHO GOT HALF THEIR VOTES GOT 1,SEAT..HOWS THAT FAIR
In general terms I support ID cards, pure common sense. The Tories bringing it in now is definitely to discourage votes for the opposition. Everyone who needs one should have it at no cost; Driving Licence holders probably wouldn't need a separate card.
Eton is a definition of English hooliganism , quintessential of England the rectal part of Europe.
Use the same UK constituencies of the European parliament - plus 100 properly appointed expert cross benchers to maintain the best aspect of the Lords
Who appoints the "proper" appointers, though?
I think you need a revising chamber with at least as much power as the current HoL has. I fear a House of Commons without someone to tell them "Not yet, not now, not this way."
Nigel Farage wants Proportional Representation because it's the only way he gets into Parliament.
Do we have to pay for these ID cards?
Because a) I'm well off enough to have a passport. (80% of Britons have that.) but b) there are a lot of people where the price of a passport (and last time it was proposed the cost of an ID card was about a tenner less than a passport) is quite prohibitive.
Oh and c) Damned if I'm paying for a new form of ID when I have a valid passport.
We will certainly pay for an ID card. Mabye not when we receive it but hen we pay out of general taxation.
It would be possible to issue an ID card with every passport. Many countries insist that UK tourists carry identification. Passports are clumsy and easily damaged.
@@Wearywillie-x5t If it's going to happen then I want it paid for through general taxation in order to prevent the exclusion and exploitation of those who can't afford it. I'm not convinced that the Home Office could find all British passport holders to send them an ID card. It would be a huge mess given the current levels of competence being displayed by the department.
Oh, we Brits do get in a twist when we hear of bad behaviour at public or independent schools, don't we? Name calling, race or gender or culturally based derogatory banter is never acceptable, of course, but do these critics think such behaviour doesn't happen in state schools too? If they do, then I suggest they visit any secondary school in their neighbourhood soon. This doesn't excuse Eton, but ironically it makes it more typical of schools in general, rather than exceptional.
Rose tinted spectacles. Obviously Eton attitude has never been any better than now....
Elitism in private schools is endemic
Interesting to note that the Eton story was only verified by an anonymous whistle-blower account...
the obvious union is between neo liberal conservatives and labour, these two are no differant at all, so whats the point of voting labour, we need change we need PR
The English habit of pretending that nothing should change - in fact that we should move back to how things were _"before"_ - when a revolution is necessary dates at least to Henry II, but is Starmer a good replacement for a great king?
I have three daughters aged 15 to 20 they are all very keen on ID cards for the purpose of being served in Pubs. Can't see it as a problem for the future of voting.
Someone needs to sue Eaton for what it's done to those children from the state school the emotional and psychological distress that those girls must have face because of their ethnicity is alarming, the school needs to pay for the lack of protection it offer those students on its premises and the children from Eaton that conducted themselves in this way should be the ones to pay the price
Eton dear
If no one will stand up for the white race of any class there literally no point in continuing society
Eat'em!🤣
Eton inviting a Fascist to speak .
You would have thought the parents of Eton students would have taught them not to bother with papers like the Daily Mail there only for keeping working people down!
Do you drool in public when speaking?
@@dddz961 yes GET BREXIT DONE!
I also vote Tory because I enjoy being shat on and on top of all that I live in the red wall!
Rory just wants to be a lord 😂 bad week for him simping for homophobia and now eton. Poor form