Excellent analysis. Out of concern for such an iconic company, I believe I will try to send this to whoever is available to receive messages at Brompton.
I bought my now much/nearly fully-rebuilt SuperlightM6LXBrompton in 2019 and the few parts which are left from the original bike are down to around 9 kilos, still with mudguards, as a Dane. I haven't a need for an extra motor (I hardly go from the same A to B constantly) but my own power is what I need, as I don't run out of it at strange places with no Electricity around! Finn. Denmark
The company have just been granted planning permission to build a new factory in Ashford, Kent with a capacity to build 200,000 bikes a year. So I assume they are confident in the financial position of the company and are planning to expand in the future.
I've got a 1996 5 speed sturmey archer equipped bromie and a 2017 kinetics rohloff bromie which is a fantastic bike. I hope they survive but I think they will have a tough time in the market today. If they go bust it will be down to poor management and a complacent view of the changing bike market. Both issues are very common in UK manufacturing.
Brompton said they created the G-line having the feed back from consumers ok , they certainly didn’t talk with the same people I did being seven different countries with Brompton clubs and bike shops in those countries, a broken record comes to mind but not one but all said a belt drive system would not only increase sales but would open up the market for more female riders to buy one , every man who was asked why their wives don’t own a Brompton same answer irrespective which country the question was asked = they would buy one if it was a belt drive because they don’t like the chain drive, ironically simple is not in the Brompton vocabulary.
@@SmallWheelWonder Probably one sentence from ten thousand letters. Ever thought about doing a video about disc brakes compared to rim brakes , would be interesting with Magura hydraulic brakes in mind compared to disc equivalent , personally I don’t see all the drama with the disc but I could be wrong .
A chain gives less resistance, on top of the small wheels, and is easy to separate. So they never asked - me! I have had one belt "folding bike"! And never more a Belt Drive! The G-line is absurd, too heavy and fills too much, by that! And I have never had problems with my ordinary brakes, at the Bromptons speed range, even racing down a steep hill, with often full stops along it! Finn. Denmark
@@finncarlbomholtsrensen1188 my remarks was really about the normal Brompton, they said they had feedback from consumers in regards to the G -line , my feedback was a belt drive on a normal Brompton was the key issues that Brompton didn’t listen too .
I largely agree with SWW. Anecdotally, in my hometown of Toronto, the explosion of low cost, practical Li-Ion micro-mobility eVehicles says it all. They are the primary challenge confronting--not just Brompton--but all bicycle makers. Brompton is an especially precarious position though because, at its rarified prices, the value proposition is becoming untenable for its traditional markets: the workaday spatially restricted and/or multi-modal commuter. Bromptons remain supremely practical but, after factoring in the economics and the profusion of alternatives, they're increasingly the preserve for the well-to-do or self-indulgent.
The other high-end small wheel bikes are not seriously threatened by the new electric rideables. Moultons and Birdys have seldom been bought by commuters. Their market is the high-end traveler and sports person, and those are not tempted by the $1000 e-scooter. This is mainly Brompton's problem.
What baffles me is that, officially, electric scooters are not legal on public thoroughfares in Toronto (they are, here in Ottawa - the provincial pilot project is applied as each municipality sees fit). Our problem here is that many buildings (federal govt) won't let them in the door.
@@gordonlbelyea4409 I'm not sure exactly what the status of eVehicles are in Toronto. My understanding is that is, capped @ 500 W and 30 km/h, they're legally accorded the same status as bicycles. In the event law enforcement is AWOL and all manner of infraction, including bolt-on internal combustion engines, is plying our streets with impunity.
@@Fetucinee The Toronto Segway dealer website states that escooters are, technically, not permitted. However, consistent with your observation, they know of no one who has been stopped when driving reasonably.
@@gordonlbelyea4409 The law is idiosyncratic in what qualifies as a licit eVehicle. For instance an eVespa (my term), if it happens to have working pedals and crank, passes; the same two wheeler with the pedals removed fails. The premise being your eBike must be technically pedalable. Obviously Segway fails on that count and, for all practicality, so do those eVespas. Nonetheless both types of eContrivance are all over the place.
My local bike dealer that sells bromptons and also brompton clone titanium frames just came out with aceoffix aluminum copy of this t line including even the carbon fiber fork. Not sure how aluminum holds vs titanium frame. About 650usd then you can build your own bike with your choice of wheelset etc. I’m not a fan of the t line design. I know owners and the common complaint is the flexing stem. Something weird in the design. funny you mention the kick scooter. I’m actually using that now to get the metro because it’s rainy season in Singapore and bromptons rust too easy so it sits stored. I still think price is a factor for brompton. I notice the local marketplace having more used one for sale. Ideally ideally people keep their brompton for life and it’s small to store and it’s there when you need it. But! It’s too expensive for a sitting depreciating asset so people just sell off and I tell you it’ll be harder to pick up cycling as a recreation once you sold off your own bike.
The kick scooter blew the compact bike out of the water for local utility, but the bike is still the thing to use for health, fitness and long range explorations.
I'm not sure that I buy that potential Brompton owners are going to be converted to electric scooter owners purely down to pricing. Those are two demographics of people that barely overlap. The only people I know who ride electric scooters are kids and roadmen.
They should stop chasing the luxury bike segment and make bikes that are affordable for the people.... their bikes are awesome but they went crazy on their luxury niche segment, the result was expected to me... Decathlon has a Brompton competitor under 1k€.
Being hand made in a high income country, the Brompton product has absolutely no chance of competing with the likes of Tern and Dahon. Their only shot is to master the luxury market, and I don't see them doing that.
In short Brompton needs more innovation, more products, at more (lower) price points. The only way this will happen is by embracing Globalisation with its labour, currency, and regulatory arbitrage and/or licensing whatever tenuous grip it has on a 'creative copyright' to give Asian made BromptNots free rein.
The straight carbon forks are hideous! If they cannot make a satisfactory titanium or aluminum fork, just use steel, the weight penalty would be minimal.
you are very poorly informed about gocycle, itgey are overpriced, all bespoke and allfar to expensive rxpenses - rim failures, gear box failure, motor failure, battery failure, panier failure…
@@SmallWheelWonderThe availability of third party options makes the Brompton more appealing. You appear to have multiple third party parts on your Brompton.
The third party support is why I am on the platform, but the Brompton company has nothing to do with that. They have effectively blocked and tried to ruin precisely that support. Kinetics can't sell Bromptons because they took away their license.
While I do think that Brompton became to woke, I think they would have been better served if they designed about 18-inch wheels that could mount Big Apple tires with fenders, like Birdy.
18" and other large sizes really don't look good on the Brompton. They could have widened the extremities and make 305mm rims available for 2" tires already on the market for that size.
@ To me this seems such an obvious option I'm confounded it hasn't been adopted by Brompton. One of the abiding gripes about ISO 349 wheels, restricted to 1 3/8" tires as they are, is their harsh ride. Recourse to fatter tires and lower pressures would do much to address this.
Excellent analysis. Out of concern for such an iconic company, I believe I will try to send this to whoever is available to receive messages at Brompton.
Best if you don't. They hate me there.
I bought my now much/nearly fully-rebuilt SuperlightM6LXBrompton in 2019 and the few parts which are left from the original bike are down to around 9 kilos, still with mudguards, as a Dane. I haven't a need for an extra motor (I hardly go from the same A to B constantly) but my own power is what I need, as I don't run out of it at strange places with no Electricity around! Finn. Denmark
Range anxiety is a serious problem. One I intend to tackle this year.
Bro you post the same comment under any brompton video
;-))
@ Yes any problems by that?
We love you either way ;-) Keep posting!
The company have just been granted planning permission to build a new factory in Ashford, Kent with a capacity to build 200,000 bikes a year. So I assume they are confident in the financial position of the company and are planning to expand in the future.
Correct.
I've got a 1996 5 speed sturmey archer equipped bromie and a 2017 kinetics rohloff bromie which is a fantastic bike. I hope they survive but I think they will have a tough time in the market today. If they go bust it will be down to poor management and a complacent view of the changing bike market. Both issues are very common in UK manufacturing.
Kinetics rules!
Yes Ben is a great engineer
The number of models they have is downright confusing.
Along with their web site.
Brompton said they created the G-line having the feed back from consumers ok , they certainly didn’t talk with the same people I did being seven different countries with Brompton clubs and bike shops in those countries, a broken record comes to mind but not one but all said a belt drive system would not only increase sales but would open up the market for more female riders to buy one , every man who was asked why their wives don’t own a Brompton same answer irrespective which country the question was asked = they would buy one if it was a belt drive because they don’t like the chain drive, ironically simple is not in the Brompton vocabulary.
They read some of the feedback... not all of it 😉
@@SmallWheelWonder Probably one sentence from ten thousand letters. Ever thought about doing a video about disc brakes compared to rim brakes , would be interesting with Magura hydraulic brakes in mind compared to disc equivalent , personally I don’t see all the drama with the disc but I could be wrong .
A chain gives less resistance, on top of the small wheels, and is easy to separate. So they never asked - me! I have had one belt "folding bike"! And never more a Belt Drive! The G-line is absurd, too heavy and fills too much, by that! And I have never had problems with my ordinary brakes, at the Bromptons speed range, even racing down a steep hill, with often full stops along it! Finn. Denmark
@@finncarlbomholtsrensen1188 my remarks was really about the normal Brompton, they said they had feedback from consumers in regards to the G -line , my feedback was a belt drive on a normal Brompton was the key issues that Brompton didn’t listen too .
I largely agree with SWW. Anecdotally, in my hometown of Toronto, the explosion of low cost, practical Li-Ion micro-mobility eVehicles says it all. They are the primary challenge confronting--not just Brompton--but all bicycle makers. Brompton is an especially precarious position though because, at its rarified prices, the value proposition is becoming untenable for its traditional markets: the workaday spatially restricted and/or multi-modal commuter. Bromptons remain supremely practical but, after factoring in the economics and the profusion of alternatives, they're increasingly the preserve for the well-to-do or self-indulgent.
The other high-end small wheel bikes are not seriously threatened by the new electric rideables. Moultons and Birdys have seldom been bought by commuters. Their market is the high-end traveler and sports person, and those are not tempted by the $1000 e-scooter. This is mainly Brompton's problem.
What baffles me is that, officially, electric scooters are not legal on public thoroughfares in Toronto (they are, here in Ottawa - the provincial pilot project is applied as each municipality sees fit). Our problem here is that many buildings (federal govt) won't let them in the door.
@@gordonlbelyea4409 I'm not sure exactly what the status of eVehicles are in Toronto. My understanding is that is, capped @ 500 W and 30 km/h, they're legally accorded the same status as bicycles. In the event law enforcement is AWOL and all manner of infraction, including bolt-on internal combustion engines, is plying our streets with impunity.
@@Fetucinee The Toronto Segway dealer website states that escooters are, technically, not permitted. However, consistent with your observation, they know of no one who has been stopped when driving reasonably.
@@gordonlbelyea4409 The law is idiosyncratic in what qualifies as a licit eVehicle. For instance an eVespa (my term), if it happens to have working pedals and crank, passes; the same two wheeler with the pedals removed fails. The premise being your eBike must be technically pedalable. Obviously Segway fails on that count and, for all practicality, so do those eVespas. Nonetheless both types of eContrivance are all over the place.
My local bike dealer that sells bromptons and also brompton clone titanium frames just came out with aceoffix aluminum copy of this t line including even the carbon fiber fork. Not sure how aluminum holds vs titanium frame. About 650usd then you can build your own bike with your choice of wheelset etc. I’m not a fan of the t line design. I know owners and the common complaint is the flexing stem. Something weird in the design.
funny you mention the kick scooter. I’m actually using that now to get the metro because it’s rainy season in Singapore and bromptons rust too easy so it sits stored.
I still think price is a factor for brompton. I notice the local marketplace having more used one for sale. Ideally ideally people keep their brompton for life and it’s small to store and it’s there when you need it. But! It’s too expensive for a sitting depreciating asset so people just sell off and I tell you it’ll be harder to pick up cycling as a recreation once you sold off your own bike.
The kick scooter blew the compact bike out of the water for local utility, but the bike is still the thing to use for health, fitness and long range explorations.
I'm not sure that I buy that potential Brompton owners are going to be converted to electric scooter owners purely down to pricing. Those are two demographics of people that barely overlap. The only people I know who ride electric scooters are kids and roadmen.
You must be living in the woods.
@ London. I agree with what you’re saying with the dilution of their product line though.
They should stop chasing the luxury bike segment and make bikes that are affordable for the people.... their bikes are awesome but they went crazy on their luxury niche segment, the result was expected to me... Decathlon has a Brompton competitor under 1k€.
Being hand made in a high income country, the Brompton product has absolutely no chance of competing with the likes of Tern and Dahon. Their only shot is to master the luxury market, and I don't see them doing that.
In short Brompton needs more innovation, more products, at more (lower) price points. The only way this will happen is by embracing Globalisation with its labour, currency, and regulatory arbitrage and/or licensing whatever tenuous grip it has on a 'creative copyright' to give Asian made BromptNots free rein.
The straight carbon forks are hideous! If they cannot make a satisfactory titanium or aluminum fork, just use steel, the weight penalty would be minimal.
$5000+ and it still has rim brakes???
; - ))
you are very poorly informed about gocycle, itgey are overpriced, all bespoke and allfar to expensive rxpenses - rim failures, gear box failure, motor failure, battery failure, panier failure…
The price is the same as the Brompton, so they are both overpriced.
But there are large spoke wheels available for the Brompton. The 3rd party Brompton premium parts lines have them.
Third party is NOT Brompton.
@@SmallWheelWonderThe availability of third party options makes the Brompton more appealing. You appear to have multiple third party parts on your Brompton.
The third party support is why I am on the platform, but the Brompton company has nothing to do with that. They have effectively blocked and tried to ruin precisely that support. Kinetics can't sell Bromptons because they took away their license.
While I do think that Brompton became to woke, I think they would have been better served if they designed about 18-inch wheels that could mount Big Apple tires with fenders, like Birdy.
18" and other large sizes really don't look good on the Brompton. They could have widened the extremities and make 305mm rims available for 2" tires already on the market for that size.
@ To me this seems such an obvious option I'm confounded it hasn't been adopted by Brompton. One of the abiding gripes about ISO 349 wheels, restricted to 1 3/8" tires as they are, is their harsh ride. Recourse to fatter tires and lower pressures would do much to address this.