This is the exact video I was hoping to find. You articulated everything I always noticed about the JB that annoyed me. Excited to swap over to a Thornbucker!
Gear demos are best when people who know how to dial in a good tone and play something nice with it are doing it. Thanks for the upload. Because of you, I'm gonna order a custom set of HSS pickups for my Aria Pro II Fullerton.
I began the video thinking “what sort of crazy person would swap pickups in a custom shop” but I ended thinking “what a huge improvement for that custom shop.”
I put Seymour Duncan's on Fender Player Srat... JB on bridge, Jazz on neck... Amazing result! I also play with dimarzios on strat's, which are much darker, but superb for heavy metal on dist or some jazz on clean
This video represents everything I struggled with. In1996 I bought in Poland a second-hand Strat with the humbucker replaced by the former owner with high-output DiMarzio Tone Zone. Some years after, when I first played Les Paul, I fell in love with the brigtness and openness of the sound on high gain, compared to my Strat. I couldn't understand it. But I stopped playing in a nu metal band at one point, and since then I preferred jamming using only neck pickup (also replaced for single-size humbucker DiMarzio Fast Track 1, which was "singing", compared to the bridge one - amazing bluesy sound!). After seeing your vid, now I got the point, and decided to replace the muddy Tone Zone with something lighter, and see how my Strat should sound like on the bridge, after almost 30 years:)
The JB still sounded just fine but if you wanted something a little less output then the Seymore Duncan Custom Custom would've done the trick nicely! I thinks it's the best pickup ever made!
That's a good one and I like the 59 as well. I found the JB matches up with Seymour Classic Stack single coils really great. Love my JB but I also have a guitar the the Thornbucker and it's fantastic and paired that with Suhr 69+ singles. For either one just a few amp eq tweaks and they both are great.
I agree I definitely got a lot out of this video I rock a fat Strat myself and sealing out the humbucker bridge for this thornbucker bridge sounds like the move
This is actually super helpful, because everyone raves about the JB so much, it's in soooooo many guitars, I probably would've ended up having a guitar with one in it eventually. But I totally agree, I don't like that cocked wah-never get enough clarity- sound. I'll opt for something else that's lower output.
Lower output doesn't equate to clarity. I have 17k pickups in my guitars and their clarity is excellent. It also goes without saying that there are lots of other guitar pickup manufacturers besides Seymour Duncan.
I've found when you use a modeling amp it doesn't matter what pickup you have it all sounds the same. When you plug straight into a true tube amp with nothing else you can truly notice the difference in them
I’m right there with you. I have a DiMarzio PAF Pro in one of my guitars, and a Duncan Slash in the other, and always seem to favor the tones of the Duncan. The added dynamic range just makes it so much better
@@VanjaSpirin Not really. According to Dimarzio website PAF Pro is only 8.4K. I´ve got it in one of my guitars and it provides outstanding clarity. Crystal clear cleans and smooth distorted sounds. One of my all time favourite humbuckers.
Great video. I chose the JB for my H-S-S for the main reason that it splits well with the middle pickup. There's enough volume so that it matches when split. Having said that, in general, medium output HBs are my go-to...usually PAF output types.
Just literally changed my mind about high outputs pickups in a quick video. After 35 years you changed my mind in under 5 minutes. I’m changing all my humbuckers now. Thank you. Never stop learning. Is this basically the same theory with all humbuckers? Lower more clarity higher less clarity? Another question I have is. Would the more “ clear “ treble get washed out in the mix? Especially live. Since it seems like it’s kind of sitting in the same frequency as a hi-hat and symbols? Not sure but, that ThornBucker sounds absolutely perfect with whatever you’re running it through. Which I’d also love to know exactly what your setup is for this video and EQ levels. I also think Pete is one of the best rock players around and wouldn’t mind supporting a brand he’s connected to. And as usual, you’re playing is incredible and this is literally 1 of my all time favorite videos about gear on TH-cam to date. Been dying for a comparison of these to pups.
[4:21] Gibson SH5/TB5 Customs are the unsung magical pickup. I first came across them in 2002 when I was using the Seymour Duncan sound clips to chose the pickup for my Warmoth Guitar. Out of everything I heard, they were the best all-around pickup I heard. When I first fired up my Warmoth strat, I kinda thought "huh, this kinda reminds me of an artist who came out in 1978…" My other guitar was a Kramer Pacer Deluxe with SD SSL-1 single coils in the neck and middle, and a JB in the bridge. The JB was OK, but I never gelled with it: depending on the amp, either it was dark, or more often than not, it had this weird thin sound on leads. The Custom had heavenly harmonics, yet had a thicker lead sound. Yes, it was a ceramic, so in the right context, it could kinda sound single-coilly, but nonetheless, it sounded thicker, yet hi-fi, compared to a JB. The SSL-1s were golden. coda: Yes, I tried the Custom Custom and the Custom 5: they suck. Completely unbalanced pickups, IMHO (and nothing like EVH).
I have been thinking about swapping the bridge pickup in my Strat (currently single coil) for a Duncan Custom Custom or JB. This video has certainly got me thinking. Loving the tone of that Suhr pickup!
The Thornbucker/Thornbucker+ is such a fantastic pickup. It is the equal of the boutique PAF replicas, some of which are hundreds of USD's, in the sense that it gets that great snarl and and growl they're known for. Don't forget, the PAF was designed originally to be a noiseless P-90, so the good ones have that single-coil growl.
JB with modern wiring is sure high output pickup for metal mostly, but when using it with 50's wiring you can use it for everything because, when you turn your guitar vol and tone pots you can get many different tones, and get back the lost clarity too because 50's doesn't lose highs when you turn volume pot down. Then you can use parallel wiring with 50's same time if you have push- pull pot and get more tele like sound too. My opinion JB is the most versatile pickup out there. That Thornbucker is pretty sweet too!
JB is raw, dark and without complex harmonic structure. I use paf-s for metal, Toneriders, Donlis and Dimarzio. Much better sound and much better chug. Also, better all rounders.
So I loaded an antiquity into my cs hss strat and it tapped ass. It came stock with a tb4. Then I decided to coil split the hb and found the antiquity to be way too quiet and quite nasally. So I installed the tb4 back in and it was glorious for coil splitting. Now when I'm in full hb bridge position I just roll the volume knob from 10 to about 7.5-8 and it cleans the tb4 right up! Best of both worlds
Putting the Duncan Seymour JB in the bridge of a strat is a very common upgrade….i think it’s because home noodlers who have just one guitar can do the the high gain Gibson thing by flipping a switch. But if you’re looking for a cohesive sound it’s not a good fit. Great video, and much respect for your playing ability.
With respect, I think the “lack of gain” that you (accurately) describe in the JB versus the Gibson is more a function of how the two pickups are EQ’d than how much output either has. If you have fewer frequencies in the forefront, you have fewer opportunities to give voice to the gain. Whereas a pickup with a very balanced EQ can really showcase the grind throughout its range. Just listening to that Gibson grind across the spectrum versus the SD shows us this. I have and have had humbuckers with higher output that didn’t suffer that symptom at all. You are correct about compression, of course, but that is better in some pickups and worse in others. No doubt about the Thornbucker, though-a standout humbucker for sure.
Hi Paul. I’ve got a loaded pickguard with a Suhr SSV+ in the bridge position to replace a JB as well. 14-16k is way too high output to match the single coils on a Strat. As an alternative, I have another pickguard with a French boutique Alnico 2 humbucker. Close to PAF 7,6 K output which is very good too. The JB is far too muffled for playing clean with dynamics. A good pickup for sure but the only match for a JB on a Strat is a ‘59 on the neck which makes an HH combo for hard rock/metal. My 2 cents… Great CS Strat btw 😉
I’ve always found that running high output humbuckers in parallel really steps up the clarity and makes them more usable in certain applications. You definitely lose a little of the output but it’s worth it imo.
An HSS Strat with a low-output humbucker and a set of quality alnico vintage style singles with a treble bleed kit can do it all. I agree completely and what a beautiful guitar!
Wow, love the Thor bucket in the bridge. JB’s are traditionally really good. With that high of output, I believe you had the JB Trembucker in there, they do make a lesser output bridge JB. You would have had a different experience with the regular JB. However, the Suhr sounds amazing, I’ll be putting one in my Strat. Thank you!
Here is a tip for any Tom Anderson owners, which usually have high output P/Us - Put the thornbuckers in those guitars and watch what happens. I did just that and it turned a really great guitar into an unbelievable guitar.
@@KUM0people getting easily influenced by others. Low output pickups frustrate me they don’t have the energy you need when you need it. I’d rather control output with my vol knob. Be your own man this universe has enough sheep that’s what I say. This guy like the TB cool but I prefer a JB.
I find some guitars suit a higher output pickup whereas others suit lower output. I love both. There is something special about a low output pickup being pushed to its limits. The Thornbucker is a great pickup. I regret selling mine too
What a great video and demonstration of those two pick ups! Your playing is excellent and a joy listen to. And your explanation of the whole process was intelligently articulate. Thanks so much!
Brillant video I have a very similar Custom shop and was having same issue once I saw this video , I purchased a thornbucker , now im absolutely thrilled Thank you .😊
I just ordered one of these for a Parts caster I built. Hopefully it sounds good with a Northern Ash body. It has HS (no middle pick up) Vintage Trem, beautiful rootbeer stain, with about 11 coats of clear, but on a Northern Ash Frankie Body black tortoise pickguard, EVH 78 style head stock , flame maple, blue abalone dots, Neck, Tusq nut, Gotoh Locking Tuners, Wolfgang style truss adjustment. It has Motorcity Woodward 3 Strat neck pickup which is just an amazing pickup if you like Jimi and SRV (It has an A3 magnet). It’s a concept guitar I call SRVH.. Very close to the Van Halen 1st Album black and white spec, but without the stripes, and a a great neck Strat pickup. Initially it was to show that some of my Amp builds could get the Brown Sound tone back when I used build, mod, and restore amps. but I like a versatile guitar. Plus I would feel self conscious playing the Striped guitar or the SRV signature. Finding the perfect humbucker has been a PITA!! I have changed more humbuckers in this guitar than some change their underwear. I recently pulled out an old MityMite1400 and put in a SUHR Modern+… It was way too high gain. I use a very similar spec as this Pete Thorn pickup on my 1976 Destroyer and R8 custom shop. Both have the Blue Sky Set by Sheptone which are also A4/8.4k on the bridge. I found a black bridge 53mm Thornbucker for $129 shipped. So what the heck. You and Pete are probably my favorite Demo guys. Can’t wait to try it! Hopefully this will Sound good with this guitar.
Cool man. You did a good job explaining to me why I hate high output pickups as well. I’m always trying to tell my buddy with his metal guitars that I like natural string sound, and that’s why I hate his guitars.
Love Thornbuckers. I have a set of them in my Les Paul, low output Seymour Duncan’s in my HSS Ibanez AZ, and Dimarzio 36th PAF in my PRS. I prefer those lower output humbuckers as they mix better with single coils and P90s.
The JB definitely sounds like there's a blanket over it. I used to be all about playing the heaviest of the heavies, these days I'm more about diversity, and would rather have a thornbucker, using pedals and amp OD/boost to push the signal into compression.
You are right. PAF pickups are better for any kind of music incuding metal, because 16k-ish pickups are always mushy, dark and without complex harmonic structure. The only exception is Dimarzio Super Distortion. It's a gem, used with non metal players, as Lucather or Metheney.
I'm sure there is a good reason for a high gain pickup in the bridge position of a strat, but I can't think of one. The Suhr pickup sounds great. You did a good and noble thing
There’s an obvious difference. I completely agree with your point, my 57 classic sounds godly for metal. However, the only pickup and as cliche as it sounds that just does it for me for High gain music is EMG81. It sounds phenomenal for the heavier stuff. Now the problem I have is I don’t like any of the EMG active pickups for the neck position. My ideal metal guitar would have an EMG81 in the bridge and a 57 classic like PAF in the neck. Unfortunately, can’t get that to work.
You get a lot more dynamics with high output pickups when you attenuate something. Something as a JHS little black box allows you to crank your amp more. Using the power amp as a touch sensitive vocal diaphragm instead of the preamp. If you play at low volumes and don't attenuate then you rely on weaker pickups to add dynamics at the preamp. If you crank any amp the dynamics eventually come from the power amp.
Thank you for this comparison. I'm currently looking at different strat pickup options and I really don't know what I'm looking for. This helps clarify the choices. Cheers!
Also look into: Lambertone's "Crema" and the Lollar "Low-wind Imperial" - I do love the Thormbucker too. Low Output is the way to go. Great demo & explanation.
Thank you for making this video! It is very informative. Years ago, I modded my first guitar with JB and whenever I picked that guitar up I always felt something was a bit off. Now I made the test and for my style of playing is definitely the clarity in the JB I don't like. I am actually looking for a Bare Knuckle VHII as I heard h the sound samples and really loved it.
if Alex skolnik can use a slightly hotter than a jb Seymour Duncan set for both testament and his jazz trio maybe you could learn something from him. or also, lowering the volume/gain on the amp to compensate.
When there is a mismatch in volume between pickups, you can just add a resistor. But if there is a tonal mismatch, then of course changing pickups will be the right option.
Great vid! Still it's hard to make a generalizing statement for all high output vs low output pickups. But I could definately heard that the low output was a lot brighter and agressive sounding and the high output was a lot smoother.
Exactly my response also...The Duncan was definitely smoother, very balanced growl to the distortion. The Suhr sounded bright and harsh. Of course you can make almost any sound you want out of a guitar with digital manipulation. Never truly know what a guitar sounds like unless you have it in your own hands.
I've had the best luck with medium output pups like Duncan's Custom, Custom Custom, Custom 5, Full Shred, and Screamin' Demon. They have the right balance of output, bite and dynamics. High output pups like the Duncan JB, Distortion, or DiMarzio Super Distortion have too much going on and are less expressive.
For the record, one of the huge reasons there’s a difference between the SD JB and the Gibson is because Gibson’s are crime covered pickups. It seems like a small thing, but it can change the magnetic field of the pickup and greatly influence the tone
For a JB or any pickup to improve clarity just cut some low frequencies before hitting the amp. Cutting below the 100 hz makes night and day difference.
Right there with you. The Thornbucker sounds clearer but also thinner, and to me, it lacks personality. It's a gainy PAF, like everything else on the market. Dynamic humbuckers sound great on LPs but I like the extra compression on a Strat/Soloist. If I want less, I turn down the volume. Not sure why people have such a hard time finding the knobs.
@@revolead exactly! We Got knobs on the guitar, knobs on the amp, knobs on the pedals….none of them will give you more output or dynamic. I decided to build an HH strat with a jb on the bridge and one on the neck! Looks like uncharted territory, everyone pairs jb with a 59 or similar, l couldn’t even found 1 video on TH-cam for two jb…l have to see why! 😉
I bought a Fender Ultra HSS about a year ago. While the humbucker pickup is not bad, it lacks clarity and depth. I might need to swap it out for one of these Thornbuckers
I recently ordered a CS HSS Strat with an EVH Wolfgang. Unlike my other HSS Strats, it really had the "cocked wah" tone in the bridge, particularly single notes in the 9th through 14th fret range. I tried other higher output pickups, like the DiMarzio AT-1 and the Seymour Duncan Custom 5. Same cocked wah result. I spoke with Lindy Fralin recently and he said the cocked wah can be an issue with a humbucker in the bridge of a Strat when the pickup is too hot. Exactly what you showed in the video!! He is suggesting his Fralin Pro PAF, which is at 8.2k with Alnico II. I think your Thornbucker is Alino IV and around 8.2k as well. I've been very disappointed with my CS Strat in the bridge position, but your video gives me hope. Now just need to decide on which PAF humbucker to get. Thank you for the informative video!! Great tone and playing BTW!!
Well done on the Thornbucker, this is such a great choice! Small tip: you can reverse that pickup 180 degrees it will look nearly like a regular strat, just without the slant. I also have a zebra Suhr in the bridge put in like that :)
@@Timbo6669 yes, thats definitely worth checking, it willa depend on the polarity and coil orientation of the middle pickup. Also, you could choose which coil od the HB geht's engaged, if the pickup is split on position 2.
@@Timbo6669 no it won't as long as magnet inside the pickup isn't flipped and the leads are not soldered out of phase flipping the pickup won't put it out of phase
@@ilmisxx2 my bad if I’m wrong. I was told otherwise. Can you pls tell me Why then are most humbuckers labelled at the bridge edge (of the p’up) with a brand or underside with arrows, to go one specific way (as they state in the instructions in the p’up box)?
@@Timbo6669 Because the manufacturer sticks to the aesthetic that is already canon. Originally humbuckers were designed to not have adjustable screws at all but then later they were added due to marketing. Flipping a pickup might change the tone a bit if the pickup is wound in a way where one coil is considerably stronger than the other(usually the slug coil). Otherwise nothing changes but the look. You can try it yourself but even thinking logically flipping the pickup changes nothing, coil wire is still wound the same way, magnet polarity is also still the same way. If only it were that easy to flip the phase of the pickup... And strat bridge pickup would be what, a 1/4 out of phase? :D Whoever told you otherwise has no clue what they are talking about ;)
I’m in this exact situation with a Charvel Danhage model. That does it, out with the JB. I just don’t like the muffled tone compared to the beautiful single coil air. Thanks for this.
My favorite humbuckers are DiMarzio Evolution and X2N pickups , they're high output but the EQ is very stratty and the dynamics are a lot more sensitive than Duncans
Had the same problem with a GFS EVH Pickup (11k) in the bridge position. Changed it to an IronGear Blues Engine (59 PAF Copy). Same effect. Sounds great now!
I have the opposite hss setup, a JB with Suhr ML neck and middle. They mix well using all 250k pots and a .033 cap. Its a "JBJ" from the early 90s though, not one of the new ones
after swapping the JB , that single coil quality of thornbucker is the first obvious thing i noticed . It has so much articulation and note separation compared to the JB. less low mids mud and fizz compared to the JB. I play metal at drop C , I still prefer the thornbucker for its clarity and harmonics under distortion. It is not that much lower in output, my amp gain is the same as when i use the JB. The Thornbucker also has better signal to noise ratio. I no longer need to use noise gate pedal.
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This is the exact video I was hoping to find. You articulated everything I always noticed about the JB that annoyed me. Excited to swap over to a Thornbucker!
Gear demos are best when people who know how to dial in a good tone and play something nice with it are doing it. Thanks for the upload. Because of you, I'm gonna order a custom set of HSS pickups for my Aria Pro II Fullerton.
I began the video thinking “what sort of crazy person would swap pickups in a custom shop” but I ended thinking “what a huge improvement for that custom shop.”
I put Seymour Duncan's on Fender Player Srat... JB on bridge, Jazz on neck... Amazing result! I also play with dimarzios on strat's, which are much darker, but superb for heavy metal on dist or some jazz on clean
This video represents everything I struggled with. In1996 I bought in Poland a second-hand Strat with the humbucker replaced by the former owner with high-output DiMarzio Tone Zone. Some years after, when I first played Les Paul, I fell in love with the brigtness and openness of the sound on high gain, compared to my Strat. I couldn't understand it. But I stopped playing in a nu metal band at one point, and since then I preferred jamming using only neck pickup (also replaced for single-size humbucker DiMarzio Fast Track 1, which was "singing", compared to the bridge one - amazing bluesy sound!). After seeing your vid, now I got the point, and decided to replace the muddy Tone Zone with something lighter, and see how my Strat should sound like on the bridge, after almost 30 years:)
JB’s totally usable for high gain depending on what you’re going for but that Thornbucker matches sooo well with single coils
Just got my first set of Thornbuckers, and I've got to say, I'm pretty impressed so far. Very dynamic and articulate. They split well too.
This video is a reminder to everyone of how awesome a good Les Paul is. Wow.
The JB still sounded just fine but if you wanted something a little less output then the Seymore Duncan Custom Custom would've done the trick nicely! I thinks it's the best pickup ever made!
That's a good one and I like the 59 as well. I found the JB matches up with Seymour Classic Stack single coils really great. Love my JB but I also have a guitar the the Thornbucker and it's fantastic and paired that with Suhr 69+ singles. For either one just a few amp eq tweaks and they both are great.
This is such a good video in explaining how dynamics are changed with higher output pickups, thanks for that!
I agree I definitely got a lot out of this video
I rock a fat Strat myself and sealing out the humbucker bridge for this thornbucker bridge sounds like the move
I didn´t expect this much of a difference! Thanks for letting us being a part of your experience!
It is different but is it a difference you want?
@@bluwng In this case I would have embraced it!
This is actually super helpful, because everyone raves about the JB so much, it's in soooooo many guitars, I probably would've ended up having a guitar with one in it eventually. But I totally agree, I don't like that cocked wah-never get enough clarity- sound. I'll opt for something else that's lower output.
There's a good reason why it's in soooooo many guitars.
Lower output doesn't equate to clarity. I have 17k pickups in my guitars and their clarity is excellent. It also goes without saying that there are lots of other guitar pickup manufacturers besides Seymour Duncan.
I've found when you use a modeling amp it doesn't matter what pickup you have it all sounds the same. When you plug straight into a true tube amp with nothing else you can truly notice the difference in them
I’m right there with you. I have a DiMarzio PAF Pro in one of my guitars, and a Duncan Slash in the other, and always seem to favor the tones of the Duncan. The added dynamic range just makes it so much better
PAF pro is 10k and this is not so hot pickup, but it is Alnico 5. Slash pickups are Alnico 2. Apples and oranges.
@@VanjaSpirin Not really. According to Dimarzio website PAF Pro is only 8.4K. I´ve got it in one of my guitars and it provides outstanding clarity. Crystal clear cleans and smooth distorted sounds. One of my all time favourite humbuckers.
Thanks. Maybe the thornbucker is the way to go. I did not know that higher the output would result in a loss of clarity. You the man.
Great video. I chose the JB for my H-S-S for the main reason that it splits well with the middle pickup. There's enough volume so that it matches when split.
Having said that, in general, medium output HBs are my go-to...usually PAF output types.
Wow! Loved this video! So much more clarity out of the Thornbucker!
Well done. Thank you. I always wondered why I had to turn the filter down when I grabbed a guitar with high output humbuckers. Makes sense now
Just literally changed my mind about high outputs pickups in a quick video. After 35 years you changed my mind in under 5 minutes. I’m changing all my humbuckers now. Thank you. Never stop learning. Is this basically the same theory with all humbuckers? Lower more clarity higher less clarity? Another question I have is. Would the more “ clear “ treble get washed out in the mix? Especially live. Since it seems like it’s kind of sitting in the same frequency as a hi-hat and symbols? Not sure but, that ThornBucker sounds absolutely perfect with whatever you’re running it through. Which I’d also love to know exactly what your setup is for this video and EQ levels. I also think Pete is one of the best rock players around and wouldn’t mind supporting a brand he’s connected to. And as usual, you’re playing is incredible and this is literally 1 of my all time favorite videos about gear on TH-cam to date. Been dying for a comparison of these to pups.
Uauuu....what differece the Thornbucker did on your guitar.....it came to life! Congratulations for the video.
Love the Thornbucker+ in my Strat. Works great with Texas Specials. Love the zebra look too!
Finally a pickup review that actually makes sense. Thank you so much for this! Ordering the pickup now.
Glad I could help
[4:21] Gibson SH5/TB5 Customs are the unsung magical pickup. I first came across them in 2002 when I was using the Seymour Duncan sound clips to chose the pickup for my Warmoth Guitar. Out of everything I heard, they were the best all-around pickup I heard. When I first fired up my Warmoth strat, I kinda thought "huh, this kinda reminds me of an artist who came out in 1978…"
My other guitar was a Kramer Pacer Deluxe with SD SSL-1 single coils in the neck and middle, and a JB in the bridge. The JB was OK, but I never gelled with it: depending on the amp, either it was dark, or more often than not, it had this weird thin sound on leads. The Custom had heavenly harmonics, yet had a thicker lead sound. Yes, it was a ceramic, so in the right context, it could kinda sound single-coilly, but nonetheless, it sounded thicker, yet hi-fi, compared to a JB. The SSL-1s were golden.
coda: Yes, I tried the Custom Custom and the Custom 5: they suck. Completely unbalanced pickups, IMHO (and nothing like EVH).
Cheers for the comment
I have been thinking about swapping the bridge pickup in my Strat (currently single coil) for a Duncan Custom Custom or JB. This video has certainly got me thinking. Loving the tone of that Suhr pickup!
The Thornbucker/Thornbucker+ is such a fantastic pickup. It is the equal of the boutique PAF replicas, some of which are hundreds of USD's, in the sense that it gets that great snarl and and growl they're known for.
Don't forget, the PAF was designed originally to be a noiseless P-90, so the good ones have that single-coil growl.
Agreed
JB with modern wiring is sure high output pickup for metal mostly, but when using it with 50's wiring you can use it for everything because, when you turn your guitar vol and tone pots you can get many different tones, and get back the lost clarity too because 50's doesn't lose highs when you turn volume pot down. Then you can use parallel wiring with 50's same time if you have push- pull pot and get more tele like sound too. My opinion JB is the most versatile pickup out there. That Thornbucker is pretty sweet too!
JB is raw, dark and without complex harmonic structure. I use paf-s for metal, Toneriders, Donlis and Dimarzio. Much better sound and much better chug. Also, better all rounders.
So I loaded an antiquity into my cs hss strat and it tapped ass. It came stock with a tb4. Then I decided to coil split the hb and found the antiquity to be way too quiet and quite nasally. So I installed the tb4 back in and it was glorious for coil splitting. Now when I'm in full hb bridge position I just roll the volume knob from 10 to about 7.5-8 and it cleans the tb4 right up! Best of both worlds
I love my Duncan JB. It's in the bridge position of a 1997 Anderson Cobra. Sounds awesome.
Putting the Duncan Seymour JB in the bridge of a strat is a very common upgrade….i think it’s because home noodlers who have just one guitar can do the the high gain Gibson thing by flipping a switch. But if you’re looking for a cohesive sound it’s not a good fit. Great video, and much respect for your playing ability.
Thank you ☺️ I am parting together a HSH strat, looking at thornbuckers , +, II ? Every review confirms that selection for my intentions. 🎸
With respect, I think the “lack of gain” that you (accurately) describe in the JB versus the Gibson is more a function of how the two pickups are EQ’d than how much output either has. If you have fewer frequencies in the forefront, you have fewer opportunities to give voice to the gain. Whereas a pickup with a very balanced EQ can really showcase the grind throughout its range. Just listening to that Gibson grind across the spectrum versus the SD shows us this. I have and have had humbuckers with higher output that didn’t suffer that symptom at all. You are correct about compression, of course, but that is better in some pickups and worse in others. No doubt about the Thornbucker, though-a standout humbucker for sure.
Hi Paul. I’ve got a loaded pickguard with a Suhr SSV+ in the bridge position to replace a JB as well. 14-16k is way too high output to match the single coils on a Strat. As an alternative, I have another pickguard with a French boutique Alnico 2 humbucker. Close to PAF 7,6 K output which is very good too.
The JB is far too muffled for playing clean with dynamics. A good pickup for sure but the only match for a JB on a Strat is a ‘59 on the neck which makes an HH combo for hard rock/metal. My 2 cents… Great CS Strat btw 😉
I'm glad you didn't damage the guitar...
"NOOOOOO! I SCRATCHED IT!" 😎
I’ve always found that running high output humbuckers in parallel really steps up the clarity and makes them more usable in certain applications. You definitely lose a little of the output but it’s worth it imo.
An HSS Strat with a low-output humbucker and a set of quality alnico vintage style singles with a treble bleed kit can do it all. I agree completely and what a beautiful guitar!
Wow, love the Thor bucket in the bridge. JB’s are traditionally really good. With that high of output, I believe you had the JB Trembucker in there, they do make a lesser output bridge JB. You would have had a different experience with the regular JB. However, the Suhr sounds amazing, I’ll be putting one in my Strat. Thank you!
Pete Thorn knows tone. Those pickups sound amazing!
The difference is incredible.
Here is a tip for any Tom Anderson owners, which usually have high output P/Us - Put the thornbuckers in those guitars and watch what happens. I did just that and it turned a really great guitar into an unbelievable guitar.
That Thornbucker sounds EPIC, definitely an improvement over the JB.
not really the JB sounds good enough already
crazy I'm siting here jamming my guitar with jb, all my guitars have the jb AND I been lookin at the thorn bucker
@@KUM0people getting easily influenced by others. Low output pickups frustrate me they don’t have the energy you need when you need it. I’d rather control output with my vol knob. Be your own man this universe has enough sheep that’s what I say. This guy like the TB cool but I prefer a JB.
A huge tone improvement 😮
I find some guitars suit a higher output pickup whereas others suit lower output. I love both. There is something special about a low output pickup being pushed to its limits.
The Thornbucker is a great pickup. I regret selling mine too
What a great video and demonstration of those two pick ups! Your playing is excellent and a joy listen to. And your explanation of the whole process was intelligently articulate. Thanks so much!
Great video. The only thing more I would be greatly interested in is hearing what they sound like split.
Brillant video I have a very similar Custom shop and was having same issue once I saw this video , I purchased a thornbucker , now im absolutely thrilled
Thank you .😊
Glad it helped
I just ordered one of these for a Parts caster I built. Hopefully it sounds good with a Northern Ash body.
It has HS (no middle pick up) Vintage Trem, beautiful rootbeer stain, with about 11 coats of clear, but on a Northern Ash Frankie Body black tortoise pickguard, EVH 78 style head stock , flame maple, blue abalone dots, Neck, Tusq nut, Gotoh Locking Tuners, Wolfgang style truss adjustment.
It has Motorcity Woodward 3 Strat neck pickup which is just an amazing pickup if you like Jimi and SRV (It has an A3 magnet).
It’s a concept guitar I call SRVH.. Very close to the Van Halen 1st Album black and white spec, but without the stripes, and a a great neck Strat pickup.
Initially it was to show that some of my Amp builds could get the Brown Sound tone back when I used build, mod, and restore amps. but I like a versatile guitar.
Plus I would feel self conscious playing the Striped guitar or the SRV signature.
Finding the perfect humbucker has been a PITA!!
I have changed more humbuckers in this guitar than some change their underwear.
I recently pulled out an old MityMite1400 and put in a SUHR Modern+… It was way too high gain.
I use a very similar spec as this Pete Thorn pickup on my 1976 Destroyer and R8 custom shop. Both have the Blue Sky Set by Sheptone which are also A4/8.4k on the bridge.
I found a black bridge 53mm Thornbucker for $129 shipped.
So what the heck. You and Pete are probably my favorite Demo guys.
Can’t wait to try it! Hopefully this will
Sound good with this guitar.
the metallic green with the tortoise shell pickguard is awesome
Cool man. You did a good job explaining to me why I hate high output pickups as well. I’m always trying to tell my buddy with his metal guitars that I like natural string sound, and that’s why I hate his guitars.
Love Thornbuckers. I have a set of them in my Les Paul, low output Seymour Duncan’s in my HSS Ibanez AZ, and Dimarzio 36th PAF in my PRS. I prefer those lower output humbuckers as they mix better with single coils and P90s.
The JB definitely sounds like there's a blanket over it. I used to be all about playing the heaviest of the heavies, these days I'm more about diversity, and would rather have a thornbucker, using pedals and amp OD/boost to push the signal into compression.
I play heavy stuff and prefer low to medium output exact for that reason. Great video
I was about to say this dude has no clue when it comes to pickups, then he started playing…
This dude can play some tasty ass licks!
You are right. PAF pickups are better for any kind of music incuding metal, because 16k-ish pickups are always mushy, dark and without complex harmonic structure. The only exception is Dimarzio Super Distortion. It's a gem, used with non metal players, as Lucather or Metheney.
That thornbucker really has a lot more top end and dynamics. I wonder how the shawbucker 1 would stack up with it.
Wonder how Thornbucker compares to Shawbucker which is another PAF style humbucker in HSS strats. Thanks for the video btw!
I'm sure there is a good reason for a high gain pickup in the bridge position of a strat, but I can't think of one. The Suhr pickup sounds great. You did a good and noble thing
wow, thx a ton. I have a suhr with an Aldrich and have the same issues. I think this is the way to go, sounds so good at that lower ouput!
There’s an obvious difference. I completely agree with your point, my 57 classic sounds godly for metal. However, the only pickup and as cliche as it sounds that just does it for me for High gain music is EMG81. It sounds phenomenal for the heavier stuff. Now the problem I have is I don’t like any of the EMG active pickups for the neck position. My ideal metal guitar would have an EMG81 in the bridge and a 57 classic like PAF in the neck. Unfortunately, can’t get that to work.
You get a lot more dynamics with high output pickups when you attenuate something. Something as a JHS little black box allows you to crank your amp more. Using the power amp as a touch sensitive vocal diaphragm instead of the preamp. If you play at low volumes and don't attenuate then you rely on weaker pickups to add dynamics at the preamp. If you crank any amp the dynamics eventually come from the power amp.
Thank you for this comparison. I'm currently looking at different strat pickup options and I really don't know what I'm looking for. This helps clarify the choices. Cheers!
Also look into: Lambertone's "Crema" and the Lollar "Low-wind Imperial" - I do love the Thormbucker too. Low Output is the way to go. Great demo & explanation.
Thank you for making this video! It is very informative.
Years ago, I modded my first guitar with JB and whenever I picked that guitar up I always felt something was a bit off. Now I made the test and for my style of playing is definitely the clarity in the JB I don't like.
I am actually looking for a Bare Knuckle VHII as I heard h the sound samples and really loved it.
if Alex skolnik can use a slightly hotter than a jb Seymour Duncan set for both testament and his jazz trio maybe you could learn something from him. or also, lowering the volume/gain on the amp to compensate.
When there is a mismatch in volume between pickups, you can just add a resistor. But if there is a tonal mismatch, then of course changing pickups will be the right option.
Love the new sound! BTW what speakers are you playing through for these examples?
I gave a pair of Kii Three monitors
Great vid! Still it's hard to make a generalizing statement for all high output vs low output pickups. But I could definately heard that the low output was a lot brighter and agressive sounding and the high output was a lot smoother.
Exactly my response also...The Duncan was definitely smoother, very balanced growl to the distortion. The Suhr sounded bright and harsh. Of course you can make almost any sound you want out of a guitar with digital manipulation. Never truly know what a guitar sounds like unless you have it in your own hands.
Wow! Thornbucker sounds amazing!
Such a great demo and awesome playing ! May I ask what are the single coils you have in there , beautiful sounding pickups !
I've had the best luck with medium output pups like Duncan's Custom, Custom Custom, Custom 5, Full Shred, and Screamin' Demon. They have the right balance of output, bite and dynamics. High output pups like the Duncan JB, Distortion, or DiMarzio Super Distortion have too much going on and are less expressive.
What a gorgeous guitar and the sounds are incredible too. I still liked the Seymour Duncan but the Suhr was clearer.
Ok first time here and wow mate you sound fantastic , huge difference .l love the Thornbucker now thanks to you .
For the record, one of the huge reasons there’s a difference between the SD JB and the Gibson is because Gibson’s are crime covered pickups. It seems like a small thing, but it can change the magnetic field of the pickup and greatly influence the tone
So you're saying the Gibsons are criminally overrated? 😶
For a JB or any pickup to improve clarity just cut some low frequencies before hitting the amp. Cutting below the 100 hz makes night and day difference.
The Thornbucker sounded amazing, but damn that Les Paul sounded killer as well...
Great video man. I’ve been wanting to try the PAF Pro by DiMarzio. They designed this pickup back in the 80s for this exact reason.
Thanks for the info!
I have been highly considering installing a Thornbucker in my PRS Santana. This video is going to make it happen.
don't rule out the thornbucker plus model.
It’s funny that everything you don’t like about the jb is everything l love about it. To each his own. Lol Great video, great playing.
Right there with you. The Thornbucker sounds clearer but also thinner, and to me, it lacks personality. It's a gainy PAF, like everything else on the market.
Dynamic humbuckers sound great on LPs but I like the extra compression on a Strat/Soloist. If I want less, I turn down the volume. Not sure why people have such a hard time finding the knobs.
@@revolead exactly! We Got knobs on the guitar, knobs on the amp, knobs on the pedals….none of them will give you more output or dynamic.
I decided to build an HH strat with a jb on the bridge and one on the neck! Looks like uncharted territory, everyone pairs jb with a 59 or similar, l couldn’t even found 1 video on TH-cam for two jb…l have to see why! 😉
I bought a Fender Ultra HSS about a year ago. While the humbucker pickup is not bad, it lacks clarity and depth. I might need to swap it out for one of these Thornbuckers
Thank you for the video. Now I am even more convinced that my choice is JB 😃
Dude you're a MONSTER player, very nice
Great demo as always. Did you ditch the Kinmans? Thornbucker sounds great. Did you ever try a Duncan ‘59 in a strat? I quite like it.
I recently ordered a CS HSS Strat with an EVH Wolfgang. Unlike my other HSS Strats, it really had the "cocked wah" tone in the bridge, particularly single notes in the 9th through 14th fret range. I tried other higher output pickups, like the DiMarzio AT-1 and the Seymour Duncan Custom 5. Same cocked wah result. I spoke with Lindy Fralin recently and he said the cocked wah can be an issue with a humbucker in the bridge of a Strat when the pickup is too hot. Exactly what you showed in the video!! He is suggesting his Fralin Pro PAF, which is at 8.2k with Alnico II. I think your Thornbucker is Alino IV and around 8.2k as well. I've been very disappointed with my CS Strat in the bridge position, but your video gives me hope. Now just need to decide on which PAF humbucker to get. Thank you for the informative video!! Great tone and playing BTW!!
Cheers! Yeah it can be a mismatch. Enjoy the Fralin.
I have a Dimarzio PAF Pro in a CS strat and people have always complimented the tone. Even my guitar tech was blown away.
Thank you! I am thinking about changing pickups in my Jackson Soloist and the PAF Pro may be a great option.@@afterstars
Thanks for the great video! By no means am I to be rude but the pickup that really shins here is the Custom Bucker :)
I love your videos, Paul!
Glad you like them
Great comparison Paul, another great video. I have Sire version of your Les Paul, your guitar collection is superb. Cheers!
Well done on the Thornbucker, this is such a great choice! Small tip: you can reverse that pickup 180 degrees it will look nearly like a regular strat, just without the slant. I also have a zebra Suhr in the bridge put in like that :)
It will be out of phase though.
@@Timbo6669 yes, thats definitely worth checking, it willa depend on the polarity and coil orientation of the middle pickup. Also, you could choose which coil od the HB geht's engaged, if the pickup is split on position 2.
@@Timbo6669 no it won't as long as magnet inside the pickup isn't flipped and the leads are not soldered out of phase flipping the pickup won't put it out of phase
@@ilmisxx2 my bad if I’m wrong. I was told otherwise. Can you pls tell me Why then are most humbuckers labelled at the bridge edge (of the p’up) with a brand or underside with arrows, to go one specific way (as they state in the instructions in the p’up box)?
@@Timbo6669 Because the manufacturer sticks to the aesthetic that is already canon. Originally humbuckers were designed to not have adjustable screws at all but then later they were added due to marketing. Flipping a pickup might change the tone a bit if the pickup is wound in a way where one coil is considerably stronger than the other(usually the slug coil). Otherwise nothing changes but the look. You can try it yourself but even thinking logically flipping the pickup changes nothing, coil wire is still wound the same way, magnet polarity is also still the same way. If only it were that easy to flip the phase of the pickup... And strat bridge pickup would be what, a 1/4 out of phase? :D Whoever told you otherwise has no clue what they are talking about ;)
What you just said about the high output compression rang true when George Lynch designed his Screaming Demon...
All I hear is Matchless Matchless Matchless............ Just Great Tone you have!!
Funny that you said Taking the pickguard off was the easier way to change the pickups..lol..cool video comparing hot pups vs clarity pups...
I’m in this exact situation with a Charvel Danhage model. That does it, out with the JB. I just don’t like the muffled tone compared to the beautiful single coil air. Thanks for this.
My favorite humbuckers are DiMarzio Evolution and X2N pickups , they're high output but the EQ is very stratty and the dynamics are a lot more sensitive than Duncans
Good God what amp and pedal are you using. Those Custom Buckers are insane sounding
Great video, just ordered a thornbucker!
Awesome video. Convinced me to try a new pickup rather than sell the guitar. Thanks!
Had the same problem with a GFS EVH Pickup (11k) in the bridge position. Changed it to an IronGear Blues Engine (59 PAF Copy). Same effect. Sounds great now!
I have the opposite hss setup, a JB with Suhr ML neck and middle. They mix well using all 250k pots and a .033 cap. Its a "JBJ" from the early 90s though, not one of the new ones
I want the bridge pickup from your LP! Jeepers that breaks up real nice
I love the JB in my strat. I hate single coils when I wanna play loud and fast. I think of it as a boost. Instante afterburner
I wish i watched this video before I ordered my jb for my American pro 2 strat. I’ll use it for a bit and definitely order a thornbucker later on!
after swapping the JB , that single coil quality of thornbucker is the first obvious thing i noticed .
It has so much articulation and note separation compared to the JB. less low mids mud and fizz compared to the JB.
I play metal at drop C , I still prefer the thornbucker for its clarity and harmonics under distortion.
It is not that much lower in output, my amp gain is the same as when i use the JB.
The Thornbucker also has better signal to noise ratio. I no longer need to use noise gate pedal.
The JB always had an odd midrange hump. Ive exactly 6 hours in one out of 40 years. The whole reason I swapped my first pickup.
yes, and big improvement to the guitar.