The heart is a muscle. The more you work a muscle the larger it gets. Same with the heart. Thats what left ventricular hypertrophy is. Ever get Fran lung/cough? That’s pulmonary edema from going 0-100 so quickly. Simply put, pulmonary edema is when you get fluid in your lungs, making it harder to breathe. It can be fatal. Those with left ventricular hypertrophy are at higher risk for pulmonary edema, which was seen on the autopsy. Now as a critical care nurse I don’t read autopsy reports. Is pulmonary edema a common finding in drowning? It would obviously make sense. But it also makes sense that potentially he went into pulmonary edema PRIOR to drowning, had trouble breathing, couldn’t continue swimming, THEN drowned. Yes, I agree w/ the report drowning is 100% what ultimately killed him. But the events which PRECIPITATED the drowning are important to note.
Left ventricular hypertrophy places you are higher risk for myocardial ischemia and subsequent arrhythmia. Tachycardia and already maximal physical exertion and oxygen demands would make this even more likely as the thickened heart has less and less time to fill during relaxation. The heart muscle only gets its own blood perfusion during diastole which is compromised in a fast HR and thickened ventricle. If this happened in the water, it would be quickly fatal for sure.
What you state might be true if the ventriculomegaly is pathologic in nature . . . Lazar's ventriculomagaly was an adaptive response, not pathologic. Again, as stated in the pathology report after autopsy, there was NO evidence of acute or chronic cardiac injury. Further, vitreal fluid analysis revealed no evidence of cardiac injury (e.g., enzymes), or any abnormality for that matter. Once again, like Sevy, you are clearly speaking outside your pay grade.
The autopsy found cardiomegaly, the abnormal thickening of the heart walls. Arrhythmia is a common complication of cardiomegaly. From this laymen's view, a heart attack was not the plausible explanation. An arrhythmia was. They are very different things. I've suffered from a form of arrhythmia called tachycardia for a long time. The onset of an event almost always leads to an immediate reduction of oxygen from the disrupted blood flow. In more severe episodes, my vision will narrow and my hands will get cold. I had an episode during a bike race and my vision began to narrow significantly. My visual field reduced by about 50%. I thought for sure I was going to pass out on the bike. Luckily for me, I was drafting in the pack and not exerting full power. I immediately soft pedaled and drifted back through the pack. I felt O.K. at that point. My full vision returned and I finished the race drafting in the pack. I dared not make any efforts to finish the race. The most likely explanation of how a high level water polo athlete with cardiomegaly would end up drowning is that he suffered an arrhythmia. Due to the very high intensity of the event--unlike my drafting in the pack during a bike race--and the fact that he was swimming with the disrupted oxygen intake, the onset of the arrhythmia probably led him to pass out and then drown. The fact that there's a shot of Lazar lurching out of the water right before he went under fits the theory well. When I have an episode, I immediately start breathing deeply and more quickly to offset the reduced oxygen flow. Lurching out of the water to take in as much oxygen as possible is exactly what I would have done if I had an event while swimming. An arrhythmia also fits well with the public descriptions I've seen of his Khalifa tower event. P.S. I don't recall Luka saying Lazar didn't have a "heart event". I recall him saying Lazar didn't have a heart attack. At the time, I thought it was oddly specific. Heart attacks are only one form of heart event and they are very much different than arrhythmias.
Dude, quit playing doctor . . . you are way outside your league and frankly wrong. Specifically, Lazar had ventriculomegaly and, as was stated repeatedly in the write up by Spin, ventriculomegaly can be a NORMAL physiological response in advanced athletes. In. other words, NOT abnormal, rather, adaptive. You personal cardiac ailments are irrelevant.
God absolved them before Sevy did. I also don’t think that’s what he is doing, he’s trying to get people who can’t think for themselves to critically think about an emotional topic
Sevy, not sure why you are so determined to contradict the autopsy results, and state the drowning was related to Lazar's heart? Politely, I am going to state you are out of your pay grade and making repeated statements in this podcast that are not founded. Lazar drowned. Why? Possibly (most likely) fatigued and could not stay above water any longer.
@@ramjee8211 There are many things that define a libtard, including their inability think independently or critically. They simply attach themselves to an agenda and their only defense is an emotional degradation toward anyone who opposes them and/or the agenda. On the other hand - meaning Sevy is a conservative convert - Sevy is presented information that he has to look up constantly because he is not familiar with the (medical) language being used. For anyone who is familiar with the language and results conveyed, the conclusion is clear. Lazar’s death was not related to a cardiac condition. Sevy stepped outside his paygrade. Now, if Sevy does not believe the pathologists who performed independent autopsies were qualified and their results/conclusions flawed and/or manipulated . . . well, that line of critical thinking will require a lot more information to verify or discredit. I am all for independent and critical thinking, but Sevy is simply playing contrarian (pundit) in this instance. Why? Not sure?
He's not contradicting the autopsy results. And your explanation for why he drowned is ridiculous. Water polo player who could tread water in his sleep just got tired. Sure thing.
@ClockCutter ridiculous? it’s the most plausible explanation . . . in fact, Lazar was shown to be vulnerable to exhaustion/fatigue in at least two prior competitions. anyway, you seem to have it all figured out in your own head. . . and, yes, Sevy was talking out of his ass on this particular topic, just as you are in his defense.
Doesn’t it say somewhere in the L1 that once you make it a competition people will die for points he might’ve had an athletes heart but he had a competitors heart and I 100% agree with Souza
Sevan really wants this to be a heart condition. He’s lost any ability to remain objective. Selection bias on certain statements in the report, trying to disprove others.
I have been in and out of few ER's in my day. I was also told I had the left ventricle thing. Of course, like usual, the ER did nothing but send me home with a 4K bill and instructions to follow up w/ family doctor. I had got dizzy on golf course quite randomly. Which was a random vestibular event I know now from my own research. Also had to google left ventricular enlargement and connected it to athletes. Since, I crossfit and since I get my heart rate to 150 for 10 plus minutes at least twice a week and other training sessions of 5-6x /per week. I chalked it up to another piece of dirt doctors advice. Its been about 4 years now and havent dropped over yet. Could some day, when its your time, its your time, no matter who is around.
*Fatigue, *Volunteered Competitive Push, *Maybe potential Heart issue that’s still have yet to be identified, *Panic = This is Lazar’s accountability *Negligence (Only 2-3 Life Paddleboarder guards) = Crossfit
We all wish that things were different and Lazar would have been pulled from the water and revived. But please inform us what is the correct number of lifeguards, what the appropriate level of certification they should have, what water craft they should be on, and where each of them should be positioned.
watch the Dense update from a few days ago...hammering Craig Richey on he's own experience of wodapalooza, open water swim, ocean swim, sharks, hardly any lifeguards, Richey interviewed Chandler and Khan porter who had terrible time in the water. THEN they highlight the Night swim for the lower athletes, NO LIGHTS, NO LIFEGUARDS. ZERO from the PFAA, who were competing at the comp, zero from the woke athletes, Rickey etc etc etc....Easily people could have died. Crossfit is hard.
So my son was not feeling well and went to a quick care, for whatever reason they did an ekg on him. He called us in a panic telling us that his ekg was abnormal and they were telling him he should get in an ambulance and go to the hospital. He drove himself and they told him his heart was so healthy, it was abnormal. Why would we care or belive anything medical professional would say about anything at this point.
To say that it doesn’t matter if the paddle boarders were or weren’t lifeguards is silly. Micheal Phelps or a lifeguard was there who would you want watching the water? Me the lifeguard they know what and how to watch the water much more than anyone else Phelps included.
The previous episodes at Dubai and at the Capitol indicated that Lazar was an athlete capable of endure extreme discomfort and possibly with an uncommon tolerance to exercise. This uncommon tolerance may be a curse, as our body has to rely in alarm signals to stop exercise or lower intensity. In 2024 the same may have happened with the unfortunate condition of happening in the water. I guess Greg may be right (one ore time) when a few months ago he replied to Sevan that it is indeed possible ".. to exercise yourself to death..". Unfortunately Greg is right and unfortunately that could have been the case of Lazar. May he rest in peace.
As a doctor, respectfully you are misinformed. You don’t understand the intricacies of anyone who drowns has a sign of cardiac issues because they drowned. Also you’re not understanding the research. It’s not the “reason” for it. Also, not acknowledging the lack of support from staff and safety issues and how this could’ve easily been avoided discredits Crossfit. For example most people who are avid hikers are the ones who die or olympic swimmers drown. You need a controlled environment to which did not happen here likely due to budget cuts. Let’s call a spade a spade and move on and make the sport better because a tragedy that happened.
I almost liked what you said, until you got to budget cuts. Do you know anything about the budget? Do you know from where budget cuts were made? And beyond that the video is available, with or without budget cuts, clearly where he went under there were two "safety personnel" in view. You can speculate on their credentials, but we should stick to facts IMHO.
First, medical examiners are overworked and do the minimal amount of work necessary to reach a conclusion. For the heart to be examined, it will probably have to be done by the family. Second, the autopsy does not state how long Lazar struggled before drowning. It also does not state that any interdiction could have saved him. Third, if Lazar’s electrolytes were normal, the struggle probably wasn’t cramp related. All the document really tells is at some point Lazar got water into his lungs that he couldn’t clear and drowned, period.
The only guy on TH-cam with the balls to discuss the topic. Unlike the woke crowd who cries for Dave to be fired and accuse him for being responsible for Lazars death without saying why.
Fatigue,panic and negligence. First two are Lazar, third one is CrossFit. Tragedy all the way around.
The cause of death was going into distress for whatever reason and being left under water for 40 minutes.
The heart is a muscle. The more you work a muscle the larger it gets.
Same with the heart. Thats what left ventricular hypertrophy is.
Ever get Fran lung/cough? That’s pulmonary edema from going 0-100 so quickly. Simply put, pulmonary edema is when you get fluid in your lungs, making it harder to breathe. It can be fatal.
Those with left ventricular hypertrophy are at higher risk for pulmonary edema, which was seen on the autopsy.
Now as a critical care nurse I don’t read autopsy reports. Is pulmonary edema a common finding in drowning? It would obviously make sense. But it also makes sense that potentially he went into pulmonary edema PRIOR to drowning, had trouble breathing, couldn’t continue swimming, THEN drowned.
Yes, I agree w/ the report drowning is 100% what ultimately killed him. But the events which PRECIPITATED the drowning are important to note.
Simply they didn’t save him
Unfortunately
Left ventricular hypertrophy places you are higher risk for myocardial ischemia and subsequent arrhythmia. Tachycardia and already maximal physical exertion and oxygen demands would make this even more likely as the thickened heart has less and less time to fill during relaxation. The heart muscle only gets its own blood perfusion during diastole which is compromised in a fast HR and thickened ventricle. If this happened in the water, it would be quickly fatal for sure.
What you state might be true if the ventriculomegaly is pathologic in nature . . . Lazar's ventriculomagaly was an adaptive response, not pathologic. Again, as stated in the pathology report after autopsy, there was NO evidence of acute or chronic cardiac injury. Further, vitreal fluid analysis revealed no evidence of cardiac injury (e.g., enzymes), or any abnormality for that matter. Once again, like Sevy, you are clearly speaking outside your pay grade.
40 minutes underwater and telling bystanders to go back is the issue.
The autopsy found cardiomegaly, the abnormal thickening of the heart walls. Arrhythmia is a common complication of cardiomegaly. From this laymen's view, a heart attack was not the plausible explanation. An arrhythmia was. They are very different things. I've suffered from a form of arrhythmia called tachycardia for a long time. The onset of an event almost always leads to an immediate reduction of oxygen from the disrupted blood flow. In more severe episodes, my vision will narrow and my hands will get cold. I had an episode during a bike race and my vision began to narrow significantly. My visual field reduced by about 50%. I thought for sure I was going to pass out on the bike. Luckily for me, I was drafting in the pack and not exerting full power. I immediately soft pedaled and drifted back through the pack. I felt O.K. at that point. My full vision returned and I finished the race drafting in the pack. I dared not make any efforts to finish the race.
The most likely explanation of how a high level water polo athlete with cardiomegaly would end up drowning is that he suffered an arrhythmia. Due to the very high intensity of the event--unlike my drafting in the pack during a bike race--and the fact that he was swimming with the disrupted oxygen intake, the onset of the arrhythmia probably led him to pass out and then drown. The fact that there's a shot of Lazar lurching out of the water right before he went under fits the theory well. When I have an episode, I immediately start breathing deeply and more quickly to offset the reduced oxygen flow. Lurching out of the water to take in as much oxygen as possible is exactly what I would have done if I had an event while swimming. An arrhythmia also fits well with the public descriptions I've seen of his Khalifa tower event.
P.S. I don't recall Luka saying Lazar didn't have a "heart event". I recall him saying Lazar didn't have a heart attack. At the time, I thought it was oddly specific. Heart attacks are only one form of heart event and they are very much different than arrhythmias.
Dude, quit playing doctor . . . you are way outside your league and frankly wrong. Specifically, Lazar had ventriculomegaly and, as was stated repeatedly in the write up by Spin, ventriculomegaly can be a NORMAL physiological response in advanced athletes. In. other words, NOT abnormal, rather, adaptive. You personal cardiac ailments are irrelevant.
No one is reading your long ass email Douglas😂
@@DavidWied Whatever you say, Bob. 🤣
@ 🤣
He's trying to absolve crossfit of all responsibility. Absolutely shameless
God absolved them before Sevy did. I also don’t think that’s what he is doing, he’s trying to get people who can’t think for themselves to critically think about an emotional topic
colin...who needs other people to think for him.
Who the pathologist who preformed the autopsy?
Sevy, not sure why you are so determined to contradict the autopsy results, and state the drowning was related to Lazar's heart? Politely, I am going to state you are out of your pay grade and making repeated statements in this podcast that are not founded. Lazar drowned. Why? Possibly (most likely) fatigued and could not stay above water any longer.
Another word salad 🥱
thanks craig richey
@@ramjee8211 There are many things that define a libtard, including their inability think independently or critically. They simply attach themselves to an agenda and their only defense is an emotional degradation toward anyone who opposes them and/or the agenda. On the other hand - meaning Sevy is a conservative convert - Sevy is presented information that he has to look up constantly because he is not familiar with the (medical) language being used. For anyone who is familiar with the language and results conveyed, the conclusion is clear. Lazar’s death was not related to a cardiac condition. Sevy stepped outside his paygrade. Now, if Sevy does not believe the pathologists who performed independent autopsies were qualified and their results/conclusions flawed and/or manipulated . . . well, that line of critical thinking will require a lot more information to verify or discredit. I am all for independent and critical thinking, but Sevy is simply playing contrarian (pundit) in this instance. Why? Not sure?
He's not contradicting the autopsy results. And your explanation for why he drowned is ridiculous. Water polo player who could tread water in his sleep just got tired. Sure thing.
@ClockCutter ridiculous? it’s the most plausible explanation . . . in fact, Lazar was shown to be vulnerable to exhaustion/fatigue in at least two prior competitions. anyway, you seem to have it all figured out in your own head. . . and, yes, Sevy was talking out of his ass on this particular topic, just as you are in his defense.
Doesn’t it say somewhere in the L1 that once you make it a competition people will die for points he might’ve had an athletes heart but he had a competitors heart and I 100% agree with Souza
Sevan really wants this to be a heart condition. He’s lost any ability to remain objective. Selection bias on certain statements in the report, trying to disprove others.
That affiliate commercial at the end is the best one so far 🔥
I have been in and out of few ER's in my day. I was also told I had the left ventricle thing. Of course, like usual, the ER did nothing but send me home with a 4K bill and instructions to follow up w/ family doctor. I had got dizzy on golf course quite randomly. Which was a random vestibular event I know now from my own research. Also had to google left ventricular enlargement and connected it to athletes. Since, I crossfit and since I get my heart rate to 150 for 10 plus minutes at least twice a week and other training sessions of 5-6x /per week. I chalked it up to another piece of dirt doctors advice. Its been about 4 years now and havent dropped over yet. Could some day, when its your time, its your time, no matter who is around.
*Fatigue,
*Volunteered Competitive Push,
*Maybe potential Heart issue that’s still have yet to be identified,
*Panic
= This is Lazar’s accountability
*Negligence (Only 2-3 Life Paddleboarder guards)
= Crossfit
We all wish that things were different and Lazar would have been pulled from the water and revived. But please inform us what is the correct number of lifeguards, what the appropriate level of certification they should have, what water craft they should be on, and where each of them should be positioned.
Holy shit please Hiller to an "um/Ah" counter on this podcast. Wow😂
watch the Dense update from a few days ago...hammering Craig Richey on he's own experience of wodapalooza, open water swim, ocean swim, sharks, hardly any lifeguards, Richey interviewed Chandler and Khan porter who had terrible time in the water. THEN they highlight the Night swim for the lower athletes, NO LIGHTS, NO LIFEGUARDS. ZERO from the PFAA, who were competing at the comp, zero from the woke athletes, Rickey etc etc etc....Easily people could have died. Crossfit is hard.
My brother in laws father died 24hrs after his COVID shot , he had an enlarged heart also
So my son was not feeling well and went to a quick care, for whatever reason they did an ekg on him. He called us in a panic telling us that his ekg was abnormal and they were telling him he should get in an ambulance and go to the hospital. He drove himself and they told him his heart was so healthy, it was abnormal. Why would we care or belive anything medical professional would say about anything at this point.
To say that it doesn’t matter if the paddle boarders were or weren’t lifeguards is silly. Micheal Phelps or a lifeguard was there who would you want watching the water? Me the lifeguard they know what and how to watch the water much more than anyone else Phelps included.
The previous episodes at Dubai and at the Capitol indicated that Lazar was an athlete capable of endure extreme discomfort and possibly with an uncommon tolerance to exercise. This uncommon tolerance may be a curse, as our body has to rely in alarm signals to stop exercise or lower intensity.
In 2024 the same may have happened with the unfortunate condition of happening in the water.
I guess Greg may be right (one ore time) when a few months ago he replied to Sevan that it is indeed possible ".. to exercise yourself to death..".
Unfortunately Greg is right and unfortunately that could have been the case of Lazar. May he rest in peace.
As a doctor, respectfully you are misinformed. You don’t understand the intricacies of anyone who drowns has a sign of cardiac issues because they drowned. Also you’re not understanding the research. It’s not the “reason” for it. Also, not acknowledging the lack of support from staff and safety issues and how this could’ve easily been avoided discredits Crossfit. For example most people who are avid hikers are the ones who die or olympic swimmers drown. You need a controlled environment to which did not happen here likely due to budget cuts. Let’s call a spade a spade and move on and make the sport better because a tragedy that happened.
Doctor of stupidity?
I almost liked what you said, until you got to budget cuts.
Do you know anything about the budget? Do you know from where budget cuts were made?
And beyond that the video is available, with or without budget cuts, clearly where he went under there were two "safety personnel" in view.
You can speculate on their credentials, but we should stick to facts IMHO.
Don Faul is on record saying there were budget cuts in 2024
@Mikehount To which departments specifically was my point
First, medical examiners are overworked and do the minimal amount of work necessary to reach a conclusion. For the heart to be examined, it will probably have to be done by the family. Second, the autopsy does not state how long Lazar struggled before drowning. It also does not state that any interdiction could have saved him. Third, if Lazar’s electrolytes were normal, the struggle probably wasn’t cramp related. All the document really tells is at some point Lazar got water into his lungs that he couldn’t clear and drowned, period.
Dave and his team failde Lazar
you can spin it as much as you want but the more you talk the dumber you sound......
💯
I still struggle with how Americans say 'ON accident' instead of 'BY accident' 😅😅
Noted.
By accident. On purpose, there is no on accident
Does someone know if he had Covid &/or the Covid shot
Just another TH-cam guy that thinks he is smarter than he is
scott...who just isnt smart at all.
@@Scott3kids I hope your kids aren’t as retarded as you
The only guy on TH-cam with the balls to discuss the topic. Unlike the woke crowd who cries for Dave to be fired and accuse him for being responsible for Lazars death without saying why.
@ don’t confuse stupidity to fit your agenda with being “courageous “
@@Scott3kidsI think you’re on the spectrum