Hey TEU, have you played Umihara Kawase? I tried that game and I still can't believe that you haven't mentioned it in your channel. That game is a perfect example that opens up alot of freedom despite being a linear game.
I spend like a considerable amount of my game dev life making a shmup to the point of burning out, and this series is reminding me why they are so fun to design in the first place heh
The perfect guest for this topic, and lots of this insight is completely new to me. I wish there was a way to convey in text how much I appreciate this from both of you!
Yea I loved Sakurai's approach especially in the early vids, where it's more about clear actionable examples/tips rather than broad abstract principles. I love the latter but it can be really long winded and a little boring sometimes
You got me again, updating my code now, super helpful! And yes watching TEU has the same effect on me, as when he breaks down other game designs, I feel obliged to not fall into the same traps. Shmup mechanics while deeply rooted have also evolved so much over the years so this series is gold for shmup developers.
I found this series through a recommending comment on Sakurai's video on shmups. I'm getting through making a more simple one and being unfamiliar with as many shmups had gotten me into a rut, but this video (and the rest of the shmup101 document) are fantastic and eye-opening! Thanks a lot, Bog Hog and TEU!
Happy to get those juices flowing! Playing more shmups is always good for inspiration, especially since there are so many interesting and unique ones. If you ever want some dev fuel, check out T3-Kamui playing Battle Garegga on James Chen's channel. The commentary there is really good at breaking down the game mechanics, and it ought to send you down a rabbit hole cause Raizing's shmups are wild
Yup, their levels are a lot more sandboxy overall, there's less emphasis on guiding you through them and more emphasis of just giving a lot of different stuff to deal with all the time
What about level design from programmer's perspective? Should a stage be a .json or similar format file where you write a long array of spawn objects containing data like spawn position, delay, enemy type, path to follow etc? Let's you hot reload the level without recompiling game but writing and adjusting spawn formations like a line of enemies is super tedious, have to write a parser too. Maybe the stage should be just a normal source code file containing procedural code using loops to append spawn parameters to a long vector of spawn commands that are then executed? I always struggled with this since pretty much no other game type has the kind of level design shmups have and no shmup programming tutorial does "real" levels, just spawns enemies randomly or all at once.
The first method is good but it needs to be combined with an actual level editor so you can visualize spawns/match them with the bg without going insane. Then you can loop through all the enemies in your editor and grab + save all their variables in a json file. The hard coded lists thing works ok too (the only way to do caravan spawns) and isn't THAT tedious, just gotta rely on a lot of functions. For stuff like paths I found it simpler to handle it on the enemy's side. You can set their initial spawn x/y coordinates and then have them use that to pick different paths, a lot less data to worry about. If your enemies dont interact with the bg's, its actually not that bad of a way of doing things
@boghogSTG Seriously Yes I will !. I have been studying Hiroshi Iuchi's works with Gradius V and Ikaruga.I've been looking for any design doc or actual level design doc from him. I am currently redesigning my shump to feel traitional but new. Do you have any links? I would like to get your insight once my game is ready.
@Noisy Ether Do you want links to something specific? Theres really not much out there on shmup design, which is why I made these vids to begin with. That said read through interviews on shmuplations.com. Devs dont always talk about their design process but they will often mention their influences, and that will clarify a lot of the design of their own games. For example Im guessing Ikaruga was influenced by old school single lane shmups - the shot precision based gameplay is surprisingly similar in both. Also hell ye if you want some feedback or advice or whatever feel free to hit me up
@@noisyether9211 Im usually a solo dev but for Gunvein I worked with a team, I was mainly in charge of game design & gameplay programming with a bit of art involved too. It was pretty fun working on it!
@@boghogSTG Thanks for the quick reply. I can't wait to play it ! ( I'm subbed with another account btw ) Looks like a good shmup year , but with the guys from M2 you'll never know. Too bad senjin aleste will never be released but there's allways a way to play it
![Scoring Systems [SHMUP WORKSHOP 06]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/hbIrPeuOhlI/mqdefault.jpg)
![Scoring Systems [SHMUP WORKSHOP 06]](/img/tr.png)
I m still being held hostage, help! Also excellent work on the vid!
Hey TEU, have you played Umihara Kawase? I tried that game and I still can't believe that you haven't mentioned it in your channel. That game is a perfect example that opens up alot of freedom despite being a linear game.
I will save you! Oh, wait. This video is useful... Nevermind.
Hahahahaa
Shit forgot to take away your laptop
@@boghogSTG #FreeMark
"When the tension reaches a climax, it is important to release it" 🤤🤤
I spend like a considerable amount of my game dev life making a shmup to the point of burning out, and this series is reminding me why they are so fun to design in the first place heh
Gotta keep pushing! Gamedev is just really hard mentally, no matter what you're making
The perfect guest for this topic, and lots of this insight is completely new to me. I wish there was a way to convey in text how much I appreciate this from both of you!
The best way to convey it is to apply it/build on it and make your own kickass game😎
Well executed Mark. Great host Bog Hog!
I like these videos VERY much. it is like Sakurai's videos on gaming, just focused on a genre. Keep em coming.
Yea I loved Sakurai's approach especially in the early vids, where it's more about clear actionable examples/tips rather than broad abstract principles. I love the latter but it can be really long winded and a little boring sometimes
You got me again, updating my code now, super helpful! And yes watching TEU has the same effect on me, as when he breaks down other game designs, I feel obliged to not fall into the same traps. Shmup mechanics while deeply rooted have also evolved so much over the years so this series is gold for shmup developers.
Good video, well made, clear and interesting.
Thank you Bog Hog and the Electric Underground!
Great series. Really making me rethink my design choices.
Always happy to expand a to-do list
Good vídeo.
I found this series through a recommending comment on Sakurai's video on shmups. I'm getting through making a more simple one and being unfamiliar with as many shmups had gotten me into a rut, but this video (and the rest of the shmup101 document) are fantastic and eye-opening!
Thanks a lot, Bog Hog and TEU!
Happy to get those juices flowing! Playing more shmups is always good for inspiration, especially since there are so many interesting and unique ones. If you ever want some dev fuel, check out T3-Kamui playing Battle Garegga on James Chen's channel. The commentary there is really good at breaking down the game mechanics, and it ought to send you down a rabbit hole cause Raizing's shmups are wild
Great video, and thumbs up for featuring Nikolai Kapustin! =)
Very interesting information here, great video.
Thanks!
God I love shmups
Excellent.
3:45
Raizing adores doing that lol
Yup, their levels are a lot more sandboxy overall, there's less emphasis on guiding you through them and more emphasis of just giving a lot of different stuff to deal with all the time
What about level design from programmer's perspective? Should a stage be a .json or similar format file where you write a long array of spawn objects containing data like spawn position, delay, enemy type, path to follow etc? Let's you hot reload the level without recompiling game but writing and adjusting spawn formations like a line of enemies is super tedious, have to write a parser too.
Maybe the stage should be just a normal source code file containing procedural code using loops to append spawn parameters to a long vector of spawn commands that are then executed?
I always struggled with this since pretty much no other game type has the kind of level design shmups have and no shmup programming tutorial does "real" levels, just spawns enemies randomly or all at once.
The first method is good but it needs to be combined with an actual level editor so you can visualize spawns/match them with the bg without going insane. Then you can loop through all the enemies in your editor and grab + save all their variables in a json file. The hard coded lists thing works ok too (the only way to do caravan spawns) and isn't THAT tedious, just gotta rely on a lot of functions. For stuff like paths I found it simpler to handle it on the enemy's side. You can set their initial spawn x/y coordinates and then have them use that to pick different paths, a lot less data to worry about. If your enemies dont interact with the bg's, its actually not that bad of a way of doing things
this might help me to improve my game level design improved at least a little.
I'm working atm on Project X sequel from Amiga. It's still shmup :)😊
Proj3ct X - Light Years
Also can't wait for the Nintendo Switch release of Gunvein on the 11th of may in Canada 🤟🤘
SOON
Anyone know the exact remix of that Janis Luciani theme from fighting layer? Amazing vid btw!
It's from the Technic Beat OST by Ayako Saso. Also thanks!
Do a video on art styles I’m struggling to find a theme myslef
Maybe, but you're probably better off checking some art channels for that sorta stuff I struggle when it comes to visual design too
You can make literally anything into a shmup theme.
@@cybershellrev7083 vector graphics?
@@seraph8293 - Sure, if it's a cool style that you really think people would vibe with.
WOW im happy i found you ! what game is that @3:52 and @5:58. And i have a shump im working on.
3:52 is Gunvein (which I worked on😏), 5:58 is Border Down. Also awesome, hopefully you'll get use outta these vids!
@boghogSTG Seriously Yes I will !. I have been studying Hiroshi Iuchi's works with Gradius V and Ikaruga.I've been looking for any design doc or actual level design doc from him. I am currently redesigning my shump to feel traitional but new. Do you have any links? I would like to get your insight once my game is ready.
And you work on Gunvien!, What was that like? Or made the whole game??
@Noisy Ether Do you want links to something specific? Theres really not much out there on shmup design, which is why I made these vids to begin with.
That said read through interviews on shmuplations.com. Devs dont always talk about their design process but they will often mention their influences, and that will clarify a lot of the design of their own games. For example Im guessing Ikaruga was influenced by old school single lane shmups - the shot precision based gameplay is surprisingly similar in both.
Also hell ye if you want some feedback or advice or whatever feel free to hit me up
@@noisyether9211 Im usually a solo dev but for Gunvein I worked with a team, I was mainly in charge of game design & gameplay programming with a bit of art involved too. It was pretty fun working on it!
I can't find GUNVEIN in the PSN store (ps4) . Is this just a japanese release ? I'm from europe . Looks like a great game !
It's not out on PS4 yet, switch release very soon (probably this/next month I'm guessing) and ps4/xbox after that
@@boghogSTG Thanks for the quick reply. I can't wait to play it ! ( I'm subbed with another account btw ) Looks like a good shmup year , but with the guys from M2 you'll never know. Too bad senjin aleste will never be released but there's allways a way to play it
@@apeishish9944 Hope you'll enjoy it when it's out! Also yeah, maybe Aleste Branch too though dev seems slow on that one, but it looks awesome as hell
Nice video are you realy kidnapped 🎮🕹😀👍🏾😂
What is the game at 5:57? the horizontal scrolling one?
Border Down, it's great
What wipout was that around 2:30?
Its BallisticNG, an amazing Wipeout clone
@@boghogSTGI saw this ages ago I'm sure. I don't remember it looking this good. Thanks
@@eazyrat Its been getting constant graphical, gameplay & content updates since the original version, its pretty much a new game now
@@boghogSTG it's already in my library lol. Looks like it's due another play. Cheers
Hi
Hello
Never seen the point of having a guest youtuber come in to say things for the main channel
Free labour :)
Excellent