I talk about game bosses and how these encounters are handled differently than other game encounters. I talked about bosses briefly in this video: • Questions & Answers
This discussion reminded me about initial release of Deus Ex: Human Revolution. In advertisements it was all about:"Choose any play style you like: Stealth, Dialogue or Combat!". And then first boss wipes the floor with you if you chose anything but combat. I was playing stealth, it was very funny encounter🙂 The game was updated some time later to make bosses less painful for other play styles.
Thank you, Tim! One particular type of boss that I really like is the one that, after defeated, won't necessarily tag along with your party, but will show up at the main endgame confrontation to land you a hand. This is such a clever way to remind players of past achievements and reward them for it!
Before I clicked on this video I didn't know whether you were talking about working for bosses while developing games or developing the bosses in the games themselves.
One of my favorite bosses in any RPG is Darth Sion from Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II. You can weaken his Willpower stat by basically taunting him, which for him is literally weakening his ability to hold his physical body together with the Force as he loses focus. Very good story and gameplay integration.
Don't Starve - great example of a series that has some randomly spawned bosses! Sure it has setpiece and biome bosses, but it also has bosses that will spawn near a thing if a condition is met, for example Deerclops will always spawn with a range of some number of units from where the players are located on a predictable day in winter.
I think it'd be interesting to go into a little more detail about what PURPOSE boss encounters serve. Like, some bosses are skill checks that test an individual player's ability to play their character or a group's ability to work together, some bosses are gear checks that players can only defeat after they have upgraded their gear beyond a certain point (which is really a time gate, if you think about it), some bosses are build checks that test whether the player's character build in terms of skills, abilities, and talents are well thought through, and so on. I'd like to hear Tim's thoughts on that dimension of boss design.
I liked that with Fallout 2, if you weren't a good fighter but had computer skills you could hack the auto guns to fight for you, charisma to get your companions+Enclave soldiers to fight with you againts Frank. Even in Arcanum- you can talk Kerghan into killing himself/joining him or having your buddies be your fighters. The smart thing about these awsome CRPG's is your skills all have a part to play.
Tim, you and the team over at Interplay did an astonish set of things with The Master and Lieutenant in Fallout. Still to this day they are a unique pair of end game bosses with more one way to get past. Even ways that don't require even talking to them. I wish more games gave you options like that. I mean there could have been more options, but just skipping them for whatever reason is really neat. Especially because it can be done by complete accident.
2:20 I really love the way Serious Sam does this! In that game, almost every level has one or two huuuuge enemy encounters and before each one is a room full of health and ammo. In some of the later levels the designers even play little jokes with this: e.g. you see one tiny medkit. Followed by a tiny amount of ammo. You say to yourself "Ok... That's weird... Why is the game being so stingy?" And the very next room is filled to the brim with resources and you go "Oh my God, what is this game about to throw at me?!?"
Honestly, this just started me thinking how significant a memory getting to the first castle in Super Mario Bros was. That’s probably my first memory of “a boss”.. A cutscene entering. The environment and music.. As a child that was a genuinely thrilling build up with the fireballs starting as you neared the bridge.. I would always ask my older brother and sister to “get to the dragon”, cause I just wanted to see him 🙂 I was like, four years old. The first boss I’d actually get to and beat on my own was Eggman in Sonic. I was so proud :D But also from later childhood I just want to express my first feelings of “epic” in a video game; Kefka in Final Fantasy III(6).. We played that game for what felt like years to my little brain; Living in the destroyed remnants of a world where it genuinely felt like the villain won.. To have it culminate in that final showdown with my first experience of choir “orchestral” music in a video game, painted in it’s blasphemous overtones.. I was brought up Catholic, and it all felt so unholy.. I loved it. Genuine panic and fear.. Just holding on with one party member standing.. Gosh. I’ll never get to relive that.. 😌
The End boss fight in MGS3 i would say is one of the GOAT, so many ways you can beat him, even by turning your console's clock forward a week so he dies of old age.
I would count ultra tough random enemies as random boss encounters, even if that's not technically what they're called. Like those stupidly strong enemy variants Broken Steel added to FO3. Ya know I actually really like how FNV and The Outer Worlds are super light on bosses. I feel like it makes the experience feel more grounded when there aren't a buncha dudes who are inexplicably superhuman.
Thank you so much for sharing all of your experience in this field, Tim. As a novice game developer aspiring to be an RPG designer, i really appreciate a lot all of this useful information and stories you share with us, and i strongly believe that i speak for a lot of people who watch you. Keep up the good work! You're a legend!
Hi Tim and everyone reading this :D I really appreciate this and the "Game Production Stages" video and their educational and anecdotal format :). I wondered how you would approach skills for a new game? How do you choose? What skill types are there? How do you (and would you) level them? Is there are particular skill that has worked out for multiple games? How can you design the balancing (are there skill-tables too? (I mean testing besides in the testing-rooms and player testing in the alpha)?
Timothy I really apprechiate your videos, you have a nice way of conveying your subjects. Could you please share more of your experiences about the inner workings of a software team. e.g. how to unlock difficult colleagues to become more cooperative. how to make people feel appreciated. how to convey to the upper level that a deadline is unreasonable etc etc
Come to think of it, I've heard people talk before about Fallout being the inspiration for most instances of "make it possible for the player to win the final encounter via speech" which games have had since then, so, it feels kinda appropriate to ask, do you remember any particular games (or elsewise books, films, graphic novels, etc.) that were standout influences for that scene?
I really enjoyed how the leadership skill works in Outer Worlds - allowed for a "lazy" minion master type of playthrough where you had your npc buddies blast stuff while I watched, occasionally activating a cinematic attack. Don't remember the last time I enjoyed such a build in another game where it allowed me to stand still in a boss fight and let my min max party blast the boss in a few seconds.
thanks for the tip Tim! It's rare to hear random boss encounter but in Final Fantasy 6, after the world is ruined, there is a boss who roams the skies which you could encounter while flying and there is a boss you could meet on the way to orphanage. Maybe the latter isn't so random, I forgot.
Nice, it was cool hearing your thoughts on bosses Tim, especially since they usually end up being the end point of most games and leave a lasting impression with the player, but I had a question about the beginning of a game: What are your thoughts on what makes a good, or bad, beginning for a game? (Beginning not just as in when you press "new game", but also as in when you first open the game program itself. That entire... first impression a player gets at the very start of their experience with it.)
Regarding "Random encounter bosses" one example is Diablo 4, which has the randomly spawning "Butcher" encounter which can happen in any dungeon. It's definitely a boss-level encounter but without any telegraphing or attempts to prepare the player beforehand. In many ways it's treated like a regular encounter or enemy spawn, lacking the 3-stage system you mention here. There's definitely room for frustration given the difficulty and lack of telegraphing the encounter to players, but also it is optional (it disappears after 1 player death or if the player leaves (or after a timer)) so maybe that's the balancing point for the designers.
Thank you very much for the video! Speaking of non-combat resolutions for unique encounters how do you feel about social/peaceful resolutions in RPGs? Many RPGs tend to use social/persuasion based resolutions for quests or challenges as a one-roll skip combat choice. Rarely games employ mini-games or other forms of "social combat" that make these social encounters more interesting and even on par with the physical combat resolutions. Do you feel RPGs today sufficiently support the social pillar with engaging gameplay and if not how would you have liked to be handled? Thank you again! Have a wonderful day 😊
Elden Ring has the closest to randommly appearing bosses, Intalk about Death Birds and Night Cavalry, field bosses that only appear under certain conditions, not really random but triggered if you meet a certain condition. Not sure if it was on Dragon Quest XI, or some other recent RPG of that style, but some powerful enemies, bosses in everything but name, would also appear randomly if you have defeated enough enemies in an area. Maybe it was Tales of Arise?
Since Tim mentioned it, what are some of the best examples of non-combat boss encounters to you, the viewers? For me, aside from The Master, I really love the "boss" encounters in Disco Elysium, especially the Mercenary Tribunal.
Interesting thought I got out of this video is that much of Fallout's variability came out of the need to support different character builds rather than for the sake of variability. It's a similar observation to secrets. You can plan some secrets in advance and it can work great, but very often you end up needing a secret when you think "but what if players then backtrack to this place?", "wait, they can actually get up there with this clever use of abilities", "I need to somehow reward players that explored this dead end" etc.
Best intro EVER!! 😂😂😂 Do you like FromSoftware games Tim, like Armored Core, Dark Souls or Elden Ring?? For me, that studio creates the best bosses of modern times 😁
I think bosses are important for their role as antagonists in the fantasy the game is trying to produce. I always like to see how games handle the trope of introducing the big bad. The Darth Vader cutting down rebels moment. It isn't enough to just make a boss a difficult fight, but to give the players a reason they want to fight the boss. It can be such a letdown though when the final boss is an easy fight. But create game mechanics that offer alternative methods for making it an easy fight (like a dialogue check) and suddenly it's genius
What are your thoughts on optional bosses that are most often tougher than end-game bosses? I'm thinking of Kangaxx and Gaxxkang from Baldur's Gate and Dragon Age: Origins, as well as some arena bosses from Neverwinter Nights 2: Mysteries of Westgate. A good example of a boss you can avoid fighting is Ser Cauthrien from Dragon Age: Origins. The best outcome is to surrender to her, so you get thrown in jail. The whole idea is you're meant to escape the prison and rescue Alistair if he was with you at the time. Ser Cauthrien also lets your two individuals go without harm, as well as the rest of your companions. You can fight her though and still rescue the other two. Also, if you do surrender and escape the prison, she can interact with you later where you can fight with her, or talk her down completely. I love options like that. Also In Kingdom Come: Deliverance there's an early "boss" you cannot beat as well, for story reasons. Addendum: also in Dragon Age: Origins and Dragon Age 2 your companions can end up fighting against you if you make decisions they dislike. So Shale wll fight against you if you make a certain decision in The Anvil of the Void quest. It makes the fight even harder, plus you have to fight a companiion you may have an attachment with.
Hi master, if you don't mind could you make a video about "relatively low" salaries, for programmers, in game dev world ? Thanks i like your contents ❤
In the japanese RPG Princess Maker 2 from 1993 you could marry the dragon in human form if you beat him in combat and spare his life or bribe him to skip the fight completely
What's really the point of bosses? There are very few bosses I find memorable. 1- Kairan in The Witcher 2. I remember it because it's the one part of the game I hate. 2- Chimera in Phantom Liberty/Cyberpunk 2077. This one has the stages and big hitpoints you talk about but it comes somewhat as a surprise. It's a gate, you can't avoid it, and it's also generally a pain and not pleasant at all. Maybe because it's the end of a really long linear series of events in an otherwise open world? 3 - The Wizard of Yendor. He is not a bag of hit points. He is easy to kill. However, he has many stages as he just keeps coming back. He is memorable because of this, which is quite unique in all games I played. He is memorable not because of defeating him, not because defeating him gives you the Book of the Dead (well, a bit), but because you cannot actually defeat him. You just zap him to death again and again. I love him. So, the bosses as you describe them are just something I dislike. The one boss I remember fondly is something completely different, quite old, but unique. I wonder why I never met other main antagonists that were as interesting as Rodney.
Hey Tim. Could you talk about save scumming? I consistently find myself doing it even though it gets a bad rep. How does this topic influence development? I personally enjoy making my play throughs ‘perfect’.
He talked about this recently. Sorry, I don't remember which one. Maybe the one on hoarding? Bottom line is he doesn't care and is fine with people playing their own way.
talking it out...reminds me of final boss of Mass Effect 3 - Marauder Shields- always remembered! He tried to save us from shitty ending but we didnt listened :ˇ(
Ha, from title I thought this was gonna be another "working in industry / dealing with people you find their" IRL Bosses. Which are also different than regular "encounters" ;)
Hey Tim quick question, have you ever tryed, or are you familiarized with the fallout online series made by the comunity composed of FO 1, 2 & tactics, and what's your opinion on it.
Maybe it is just my impression, but you seemed intending to talk why you put a final boss in outer worlds, but by the end of the video you forgot about it.
The Master from Fallout was probably one of the harder boss fights ive had in a video game. The Master itself was substantial because of the overseer double gatling lasers. But really the hardest part was the fcking illusionary Nightkin who kept literally coming out of the wall. And actually being softened up before the actual fight by the psychic attacks in the hallway too. Fighting through the Brotherhood Bunker with a Minigun and +2 ranks of Bonus Ranged Damage was actually abit easier.
Res evil nemesis: I am here to mess with you each time we come across each other and guess what you cant even kill me for the whole game. Also in most rpg games when you come to final boss just to realized that your whole built cant stand any chance n you wasted 40 hrs of gameplay(wink wink champions of norrath`s Innorruk and my barbarian build with lousiest bow purchased 2 minutes prior resulting me running around the final arena for over 30 minutes chipping away the ridiculous health bar not admitting the crucial mistake I did )Yeah it only took me 10 tries n the controller wasnt the only thing I was clenching to. Oh bosses gut times enough said.
Bad Bosses can really spoil a game Risen's end boss was completely at odds to the way you played the rest of the game and had strange new mechanics all of a sudden Deus Ex Human Revolution suddenly had an unskippable combat boss (thankfully they fixed it with an update) Witcher 2's Kayran was too early in the game (and used QTEs - ugh!) - no encounters after it were of the same type or difficulty so you kept waiting for something bigger and badder that never happened
Disco Elysium had an interesting take on a boss. Instead of actually fighting him you had to battle him through conversation. I remember taking psychological damage cause he offered me a seat and I took damage cause it was uncomfortable lol.
Bosses are random/procedural in xcom 2. The chosen and alien rulers just show up on missons that they could be on. Just gining an example for completeness sake.
I know this is random.. but i have a question i just played fallout 1 but was introduced to the lore beforehand , however! Who do you believe is the stronger boss 💪 the master vs the end antagonist ? I know the logical answer is the master but hear me out besides stat points from a philosophical standpoint of view , i believe the vault 13 leader is more evil because of his end actions! LOL 😆
If in the future the bombs get dropped, and people look at your videos for infirmation (you are a key figure in post apocalyptic role playing), how would they interpret the videos?
For a “randomly appearing boss” the only thing I can think of is Nemesis from Resident Evil 3, but honestly it is a stretch definition. Edit: also not an RPG, so not too relevant
Not a boss, per se but in Oblivion a Dark Brotherhood guy can chase you around the map and if this happens early on (as it did for me) he's very difficult to kill. Also Deathclaws and some Legendary level stuff have a habit of popping up in random encounters in Fallout 4.
Diablo 2's Diablo boss fight was one of the most pitiful boss fights ive ever had. Literally the 2nd boss in the game was alot harder, and had a name/pedigree that was completely unknown that made it feel like a filler character. Pretty much just keep quaffing healing potions to stay ahead of the flame waves and just keep hitting it with Blizzard or Throwing Axes if you're a barbarian. The previous two bosses would just stunlock and haymaker the hell out of you.
“Even though I’m a bass…. Yo”
I’m so glad you did that 😂😂
"Released 57 seconds ago" - perfection
Released 57 minutes ago. Still fresh
This discussion reminded me about initial release of Deus Ex: Human Revolution. In advertisements it was all about:"Choose any play style you like: Stealth, Dialogue or Combat!". And then first boss wipes the floor with you if you chose anything but combat. I was playing stealth, it was very funny encounter🙂
The game was updated some time later to make bosses less painful for other play styles.
I remember having a hard time too!
The original Resident Evil 3 is the best example of a random boss encounter. You're just chilling and nemesis just shows up to wreck your day. Lol
Thank you, Tim! One particular type of boss that I really like is the one that, after defeated, won't necessarily tag along with your party, but will show up at the main endgame confrontation to land you a hand.
This is such a clever way to remind players of past achievements and reward them for it!
sarevok says hiii
Before I clicked on this video I didn't know whether you were talking about working for bosses while developing games or developing the bosses in the games themselves.
One of my favorite bosses in any RPG is Darth Sion from Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II. You can weaken his Willpower stat by basically taunting him, which for him is literally weakening his ability to hold his physical body together with the Force as he loses focus. Very good story and gameplay integration.
Don't Starve - great example of a series that has some randomly spawned bosses! Sure it has setpiece and biome bosses, but it also has bosses that will spawn near a thing if a condition is met, for example Deerclops will always spawn with a range of some number of units from where the players are located on a predictable day in winter.
I think it'd be interesting to go into a little more detail about what PURPOSE boss encounters serve. Like, some bosses are skill checks that test an individual player's ability to play their character or a group's ability to work together, some bosses are gear checks that players can only defeat after they have upgraded their gear beyond a certain point (which is really a time gate, if you think about it), some bosses are build checks that test whether the player's character build in terms of skills, abilities, and talents are well thought through, and so on. I'd like to hear Tim's thoughts on that dimension of boss design.
I liked that with Fallout 2, if you weren't a good fighter but had computer skills you could hack the auto guns to fight for you, charisma to get your companions+Enclave soldiers to fight with you againts Frank. Even in Arcanum- you can talk Kerghan into killing himself/joining him or having your buddies be your fighters. The smart thing about these awsome CRPG's is your skills all have a part to play.
Tim, you and the team over at Interplay did an astonish set of things with The Master and Lieutenant in Fallout. Still to this day they are a unique pair of end game bosses with more one way to get past. Even ways that don't require even talking to them. I wish more games gave you options like that. I mean there could have been more options, but just skipping them for whatever reason is really neat. Especially because it can be done by complete accident.
You are THE boss, Tim 🤙
2:20 I really love the way Serious Sam does this! In that game, almost every level has one or two huuuuge enemy encounters and before each one is a room full of health and ammo. In some of the later levels the designers even play little jokes with this: e.g. you see one tiny medkit. Followed by a tiny amount of ammo. You say to yourself "Ok... That's weird... Why is the game being so stingy?" And the very next room is filled to the brim with resources and you go "Oh my God, what is this game about to throw at me?!?"
Your input in all these videos is so valuable and appreciated.
Honestly, this just started me thinking how significant a memory getting to the first castle in Super Mario Bros was. That’s probably my first memory of “a boss”..
A cutscene entering. The environment and music..
As a child that was a genuinely thrilling build up with the fireballs starting as you neared the bridge..
I would always ask my older brother and sister to “get to the dragon”, cause I just wanted to see him 🙂
I was like, four years old.
The first boss I’d actually get to and beat on my own was Eggman in Sonic. I was so proud :D
But also from later childhood I just want to express my first feelings of “epic” in a video game;
Kefka in Final Fantasy III(6).. We played that game for what felt like years to my little brain; Living in the destroyed remnants of a world where it genuinely felt like the villain won..
To have it culminate in that final showdown with my first experience of choir “orchestral” music in a video game, painted in it’s blasphemous overtones.. I was brought up Catholic, and it all felt so unholy.. I loved it.
Genuine panic and fear.. Just holding on with one party member standing..
Gosh. I’ll never get to relive that..
😌
"Talk about bosses, and not me even tho i'm a boss yo..." lmao! 😄
i love it.
Tim Is the final boss for a game developer
The End boss fight in MGS3 i would say is one of the GOAT, so many ways you can beat him, even by turning your console's clock forward a week so he dies of old age.
these videos are so cool, Tim. A rare look into an interesting life.
I would count ultra tough random enemies as random boss encounters, even if that's not technically what they're called. Like those stupidly strong enemy variants Broken Steel added to FO3.
Ya know I actually really like how FNV and The Outer Worlds are super light on bosses. I feel like it makes the experience feel more grounded when there aren't a buncha dudes who are inexplicably superhuman.
that intro got me 😂
Thank you so much for sharing all of your experience in this field, Tim. As a novice game developer aspiring to be an RPG designer, i really appreciate a lot all of this useful information and stories you share with us, and i strongly believe that i speak for a lot of people who watch you. Keep up the good work! You're a legend!
Hi Tim and everyone reading this :D I really appreciate this and the "Game Production Stages" video and their educational and anecdotal format :). I wondered how you would approach skills for a new game? How do you choose? What skill types are there? How do you (and would you) level them? Is there are particular skill that has worked out for multiple games? How can you design the balancing (are there skill-tables too? (I mean testing besides in the testing-rooms and player testing in the alpha)?
I love that so many of your permutation examples apply to Crash Bandicoot bosses
2:29 --> ME: Laughs in Dark Souls
Great video as always.
The Im a boss yo at the start... i choked on my food and couldnt stop laughing, that got to me
Darkest dungeon has some good examples of wandering bosses. Though those are really punishing encounters for the beginners
Persona
Timothy I really apprechiate your videos, you have a nice way of conveying your subjects. Could you please share more of your experiences about the inner workings of a software team. e.g. how to unlock difficult colleagues to become more cooperative. how to make people feel appreciated. how to convey to the upper level that a deadline is unreasonable etc etc
Boss battles have the best music!
I love boss encounters, there’s so much you can do to make them unique.
Come to think of it, I've heard people talk before about Fallout being the inspiration for most instances of "make it possible for the player to win the final encounter via speech" which games have had since then, so, it feels kinda appropriate to ask, do you remember any particular games (or elsewise books, films, graphic novels, etc.) that were standout influences for that scene?
I was thinking about the other type of bosses
I really enjoyed how the leadership skill works in Outer Worlds - allowed for a "lazy" minion master type of playthrough where you had your npc buddies blast stuff while I watched, occasionally activating a cinematic attack.
Don't remember the last time I enjoyed such a build in another game where it allowed me to stand still in a boss fight and let my min max party blast the boss in a few seconds.
Tim is a wise elder!
I liked how Diablo just kind of surprises you with the butcher. Keeps you on your toes anytime you go into a new room.
THANKS TIM
thanks for the tip Tim! It's rare to hear random boss encounter but in Final Fantasy 6, after the world is ruined, there is a boss who roams the skies which you could encounter while flying and there is a boss you could meet on the way to orphanage. Maybe the latter isn't so random, I forgot.
Nice, it was cool hearing your thoughts on bosses Tim, especially since they usually end up being the end point of most games and leave a lasting impression with the player, but I had a question about the beginning of a game: What are your thoughts on what makes a good, or bad, beginning for a game? (Beginning not just as in when you press "new game", but also as in when you first open the game program itself. That entire... first impression a player gets at the very start of their experience with it.)
Tim, youre a BOSS sir !🎉
0:10 very cool tim
Regarding "Random encounter bosses" one example is Diablo 4, which has the randomly spawning "Butcher" encounter which can happen in any dungeon. It's definitely a boss-level encounter but without any telegraphing or attempts to prepare the player beforehand. In many ways it's treated like a regular encounter or enemy spawn, lacking the 3-stage system you mention here. There's definitely room for frustration given the difficulty and lack of telegraphing the encounter to players, but also it is optional (it disappears after 1 player death or if the player leaves (or after a timer)) so maybe that's the balancing point for the designers.
Thank you very much for the video!
Speaking of non-combat resolutions for unique encounters how do you feel about social/peaceful resolutions in RPGs? Many RPGs tend to use social/persuasion based resolutions for quests or challenges as a one-roll skip combat choice. Rarely games employ mini-games or other forms of "social combat" that make these social encounters more interesting and even on par with the physical combat resolutions. Do you feel RPGs today sufficiently support the social pillar with engaging gameplay and if not how would you have liked to be handled?
Thank you again! Have a wonderful day 😊
"Cuz ama boss, yo" *dances*
That was a good one :D
Boss yo!
Yes I was wondering game or human
Elden Ring has the closest to randommly appearing bosses, Intalk about Death Birds and Night Cavalry, field bosses that only appear under certain conditions, not really random but triggered if you meet a certain condition.
Not sure if it was on Dragon Quest XI, or some other recent RPG of that style, but some powerful enemies, bosses in everything but name, would also appear randomly if you have defeated enough enemies in an area. Maybe it was Tales of Arise?
Since Tim mentioned it, what are some of the best examples of non-combat boss encounters to you, the viewers? For me, aside from The Master, I really love the "boss" encounters in Disco Elysium, especially the Mercenary Tribunal.
Convincing Lanius in New Vegas to retreat.
Interesting thought I got out of this video is that much of Fallout's variability came out of the need to support different character builds rather than for the sake of variability. It's a similar observation to secrets. You can plan some secrets in advance and it can work great, but very often you end up needing a secret when you think "but what if players then backtrack to this place?", "wait, they can actually get up there with this clever use of abilities", "I need to somehow reward players that explored this dead end" etc.
There is actually a few games with random boss fights, ironically the one that jumps out the most to me is Fallout 4, with it's random legendaries.
Best intro EVER!! 😂😂😂
Do you like FromSoftware games Tim, like Armored Core, Dark Souls or Elden Ring?? For me, that studio creates the best bosses of modern times 😁
I think bosses are important for their role as antagonists in the fantasy the game is trying to produce. I always like to see how games handle the trope of introducing the big bad. The Darth Vader cutting down rebels moment. It isn't enough to just make a boss a difficult fight, but to give the players a reason they want to fight the boss. It can be such a letdown though when the final boss is an easy fight. But create game mechanics that offer alternative methods for making it an easy fight (like a dialogue check) and suddenly it's genius
0:09 you will always be the boss Tim :)
What are your thoughts on optional bosses that are most often tougher than end-game bosses?
I'm thinking of Kangaxx and Gaxxkang from Baldur's Gate and Dragon Age: Origins, as well as some arena bosses from Neverwinter Nights 2: Mysteries of Westgate.
A good example of a boss you can avoid fighting is Ser Cauthrien from Dragon Age: Origins. The best outcome is to surrender to her, so you get thrown in jail. The whole idea is you're meant to escape the prison and rescue Alistair if he was with you at the time. Ser Cauthrien also lets your two individuals go without harm, as well as the rest of your companions. You can fight her though and still rescue the other two. Also, if you do surrender and escape the prison, she can interact with you later where you can fight with her, or talk her down completely. I love options like that.
Also In Kingdom Come: Deliverance there's an early "boss" you cannot beat as well, for story reasons.
Addendum: also in Dragon Age: Origins and Dragon Age 2 your companions can end up fighting against you if you make decisions they dislike. So Shale wll fight against you if you make a certain decision in The Anvil of the Void quest. It makes the fight even harder, plus you have to fight a companiion you may have an attachment with.
The worst boss encounter has to be Capra demon from Dark souls. What a jip the first time you walk in you get arse blasted.
ty for these. feel like ive wasted my 20s but maybe i can catchup and this helps
Hi master, if you don't mind could you make a video about "relatively low" salaries, for programmers, in game dev world ? Thanks i like your contents ❤
Can you make a video about bosses as in who you work for as a programmer etc
Did Tim ever do a video on choice and consequence?
Arcanum also had a same thing going on with it's final boss.
In the japanese RPG Princess Maker 2 from 1993 you could marry the dragon in human form if you beat him in combat and spare his life or bribe him to skip the fight completely
What's really the point of bosses?
There are very few bosses I find memorable.
1- Kairan in The Witcher 2. I remember it because it's the one part of the game I hate.
2- Chimera in Phantom Liberty/Cyberpunk 2077. This one has the stages and big hitpoints you talk about but it comes somewhat as a surprise. It's a gate, you can't avoid it, and it's also generally a pain and not pleasant at all. Maybe because it's the end of a really long linear series of events in an otherwise open world?
3 - The Wizard of Yendor. He is not a bag of hit points. He is easy to kill. However, he has many stages as he just keeps coming back. He is memorable because of this, which is quite unique in all games I played. He is memorable not because of defeating him, not because defeating him gives you the Book of the Dead (well, a bit), but because you cannot actually defeat him. You just zap him to death again and again. I love him.
So, the bosses as you describe them are just something I dislike.
The one boss I remember fondly is something completely different, quite old, but unique. I wonder why I never met other main antagonists that were as interesting as Rodney.
you ARE a boss!
Hey Tim. Could you talk about save scumming? I consistently find myself doing it even though it gets a bad rep. How does this topic influence development? I personally enjoy making my play throughs ‘perfect’.
He talked about this recently. Sorry, I don't remember which one. Maybe the one on hoarding? Bottom line is he doesn't care and is fine with people playing their own way.
@@aaronc1705 awesome. Thanks for letting me know
yay Timothy Cain ♥
talking it out...reminds me of final boss of Mass Effect 3 - Marauder Shields- always remembered! He tried to save us from shitty ending but we didnt listened :ˇ(
Ha, from title I thought this was gonna be another "working in industry / dealing with people you find their" IRL Bosses. Which are also different than regular "encounters" ;)
Shadow of Mordor kinda has Random Bosses.
i've met a few acid breathing bosses in my time
Hey Tim quick question, have you ever tryed, or are you familiarized with the fallout online series made by the comunity composed of FO 1, 2 & tactics, and what's your opinion on it.
What are your thoughts on games that are pure gameplay and don’t care about deep narrative, worldbuilding, lore etc.
Like the new Mario Wonder.
BG 3 managed to pull something new in the Raphael encounter, give the boss a whole own song sung by the boss himself. That was memorable
You can also put Bruce Springsteen in your game. 🤣
Maybe it is just my impression, but you seemed intending to talk why you put a final boss in outer worlds, but by the end of the video you forgot about it.
The Master from Fallout was probably one of the harder boss fights ive had in a video game. The Master itself was substantial because of the overseer double gatling lasers. But really the hardest part was the fcking illusionary Nightkin who kept literally coming out of the wall. And actually being softened up before the actual fight by the psychic attacks in the hallway too. Fighting through the Brotherhood Bunker with a Minigun and +2 ranks of Bonus Ranged Damage was actually abit easier.
Hi Tim, it's me David.
Res evil nemesis: I am here to mess with you each time we come across each other and guess what you cant even kill me for the whole game. Also in most rpg games when you come to final boss just to realized that your whole built cant stand any chance n you wasted 40 hrs of gameplay(wink wink champions of norrath`s Innorruk and my barbarian build with lousiest bow purchased 2 minutes prior resulting me running around the final arena for over 30 minutes chipping away the ridiculous health bar not admitting the crucial mistake I did )Yeah it only took me 10 tries n the controller wasnt the only thing I was clenching to. Oh bosses gut times enough said.
...i was really hoping u were gonna talk about "real life bosses" vs "game bosses" haha
Real life boss? I talk about myself all the time! 😄
Does the same appear in souls genre?
Bad Bosses can really spoil a game
Risen's end boss was completely at odds to the way you played the rest of the game and had strange new mechanics all of a sudden
Deus Ex Human Revolution suddenly had an unskippable combat boss (thankfully they fixed it with an update)
Witcher 2's Kayran was too early in the game (and used QTEs - ugh!) - no encounters after it were of the same type or difficulty so you kept waiting for something bigger and badder that never happened
Disco Elysium had an interesting take on a boss. Instead of actually fighting him you had to battle him through conversation. I remember taking psychological damage cause he offered me a seat and I took damage cause it was uncomfortable lol.
Bosses are random/procedural in xcom 2. The chosen and alien rulers just show up on missons that they could be on. Just gining an example for completeness sake.
I grew up with 3D games, so the very first scorpion in fallout feels like a boss to me :(
Also: outer worlds is my favorite 3D fallout game ;) thanks, Mr. Cain.
Shadow of Mordor kinda had random bosses if you get a high level nemesis
"There should be warnings..."
HWAAAAAAA HWAAAAAAA
⚠️ WARNING ⚠️
A HEAVY OBJECT IS APPROACHING!
Why do I hear boss music
Are you maybe playing Lost Ark? Killing trash mobs before boss encounter to up your big hitting skill bar reminded me of lost Ark 😂
I know this is random.. but i have a question i just played fallout 1 but was introduced to the lore beforehand , however! Who do you believe is the stronger boss 💪 the master vs the end antagonist ? I know the logical answer is the master but hear me out besides stat points from a philosophical standpoint of view , i believe the vault 13 leader is more evil because of his end actions! LOL 😆
If in the future the bombs get dropped, and people look at your videos for infirmation (you are a key figure in post apocalyptic role playing), how would they interpret the videos?
hi again tim
Hi Tim
0:11 obviously because you want to be put in my game as a console command boss
One thing i hate the most about bosses in games is when simply touching their model does damage to you. This always annoyed me
Can't stand 'em, we need to democratise the Dungeon.
?
I believe the term for a "strong enemy" that doesn't necessarily fit the entire description of a boss is a "mini-boss".
For a “randomly appearing boss” the only thing I can think of is Nemesis from Resident Evil 3, but honestly it is a stretch definition.
Edit: also not an RPG, so not too relevant
Final Fantasy 6 and 7 have one boss each, roaming the overworld
Not a boss, per se but in Oblivion a Dark Brotherhood guy can chase you around the map and if this happens early on (as it did for me) he's very difficult to kill.
Also Deathclaws and some Legendary level stuff have a habit of popping up in random encounters in Fallout 4.
the Persona games when you accidentally put the controller down in a dungeon to make some food or take a dump without pausing
Diablo 2's Diablo boss fight was one of the most pitiful boss fights ive ever had. Literally the 2nd boss in the game was alot harder, and had a name/pedigree that was completely unknown that made it feel like a filler character. Pretty much just keep quaffing healing potions to stay ahead of the flame waves and just keep hitting it with Blizzard or Throwing Axes if you're a barbarian. The previous two bosses would just stunlock and haymaker the hell out of you.