Not only does he understand it but he can explain it so clearly and so quickly. I always read Kevin's articles first, have for alot of years. Then I look for Peter Egan.
The rear suspension works with the steering trail to help the bike to self-steer in the correct direction when on a lean. The rider does not need to consciously steer the bike. When the set-up is correct, all the rider needs to do is flick the bike into a corner and accelerate. As the back goes down, the bike turns more. It works by changing the rake. If the bike turns too much when it is gassed the rear suspension needs to be wound up, to reduce the squat. Most guys get this wrong.
When a motorcycle squats, the centre of gravity needs to be well forward or the bike will feel too light in the front. Corners will be slower. With most Japanese motorcycles, the centre of gravity cannot be moved. But the bike needs to squat to oversteer in the correct direction when accelerating. I suggest many riders cannot sense self-steering, let alone communicate it to their crews. If you cannot feel it happening, you cannot use it. What happens at the transition point is important. If the bike tends to run wide as you accelerate, you are stuffed - you will never be quick enough.
Hi Kevin, firstly I love your video's and a Big Hi from India. I have some questions regarding off road bikes with respect to the same topic of suspension squat. The physics behind pro squat and anti squat is complicated (and I dont necessarily understand it fully, yet) and most modern dirt bikes have been designed carefully from the factory, so that the squat effects benefit the bikes handling in a positive way, which in a way is quite the opposite of how a road bikes rear geometry works. Apparently, Enduro and dirt bikes have a certain degree of anti-squat during the majority of the suspension travel and it changes to pro squat deeper or later in the travel for rear wheel traction and steering ?? Obviously, The relationship between these two is critical to suspension performance and I assume, traction as well. an elaborate explanation or a video on this is highly appreciated! lot of folks have many misconceptions about this and disagree that an Off-road bikes Suspension Squat dont affect Motorcycle Handling... which is obviously false. cheers and thanks in advance.
So I'm still confused. Are parallel swingarms better or worse than swingarms with a droop angle? I got the impression from the video that they were better, but you said when Honda did it in 1988 their bike squared down out of a turn, which I understood to be a bad thing.
Not sure if you ever got you answer, but shaft moments are neglected because the force is in the plane of the swing arm. Most shaft driven motorcycles actually lift up in the rear under thrust. This can be countered by implementing a 4-bar linkage shaft coupler.
So when motorcycles compress the front suspension when increasing throttle on a dyno... Is that due to the built in angles ensuring moving parts of the motorcycle alone also encourage front suspension squat? 🤔
I had a 1977 xs750 with the drive shaft.....it would stand up in the corners which was most disconcerting.......I think BMW does the same thing........drives shaft are a different animal....
Grip is always mechanical. principles of load transfer will still apply. Electric hub motors tend to be heavy, affecting the Center of Mass and of course, will have unsprung weight characteristics different from traditional motorcycles.
There is still a swingarm, and the rear wheel still wants to run under the center of the motorcycle, thus shrinking the base of the triangle during acceleration, and lifting up the seat. Maybe the static angle of the swingarm is reduced to account for the lack of chain force?
Please keep asking him questions, gold mine of understanding
It's not just what he says; it's the way he says it! The man is a video star! Again, the editing (music included) is brilliant.
Raise your hand if, you could listen to Kevin explain shit forever....
Not only does he understand it but he can explain it so clearly and so quickly. I always read Kevin's articles first, have for alot of years. Then I look for Peter Egan.
Why anyone would dislike this explanation is beyond me. It's just as accurate and precise as you'd expect.
Keep these coming!!! How about a "What's in Kevin's Garage" episode?
Never thought about sprocket size effecting squat.
The rear suspension works with the steering trail to help the bike to self-steer in the correct direction when on a lean. The rider does not need to consciously steer the bike. When the set-up is correct, all the rider needs to do is flick the bike into a corner and accelerate. As the back goes down, the bike turns more. It works by changing the rake. If the bike turns too much when it is gassed the rear suspension needs to be wound up, to reduce the squat. Most guys get this wrong.
Polaris addressed this with "Concentric Drive" on there 99 and up chain driven atvs.
Brilliant!
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Thank you for posting these truly informative videos! The explanations are superb! Learning quite a lot from these.
When a motorcycle squats, the centre of gravity needs to be well forward or the bike will feel too light in the front. Corners will be slower. With most Japanese motorcycles, the centre of gravity cannot be moved. But the bike needs to squat to oversteer in the correct direction when accelerating. I suggest many riders cannot sense self-steering, let alone communicate it to their crews. If you cannot feel it happening, you cannot use it. What happens at the transition point is important. If the bike tends to run wide as you accelerate, you are stuffed - you will never be quick enough.
Hi Kevin, firstly I love your video's and a Big Hi from India. I have some questions regarding off road bikes with respect to the same topic of suspension squat. The physics behind pro squat and anti squat is complicated (and I dont necessarily understand it fully, yet) and most modern dirt bikes have been designed carefully from the factory, so that the squat effects benefit the bikes handling in a positive way, which in a way is quite the opposite of how a road bikes rear geometry works. Apparently, Enduro and dirt bikes have a certain degree of anti-squat during the majority of the suspension travel and it changes to pro squat deeper or later in the travel for rear wheel traction and steering ?? Obviously, The relationship between these two is critical to suspension performance and I assume, traction as well. an elaborate explanation or a video on this is highly appreciated! lot of folks have many misconceptions about this and disagree that an Off-road bikes Suspension Squat dont affect Motorcycle Handling... which is obviously false. cheers and thanks in advance.
How about Horst link? It was originally designed for motorcycles but was abandoned as it eliminated squad completely.
" not going to be near the limits of traction at any time" 🤣 😇
So I'm still confused. Are parallel swingarms better or worse than swingarms with a droop angle? I got the impression from the video that they were better, but you said when Honda did it in 1988 their bike squared down out of a turn, which I understood to be a bad thing.
How is anti squat handled in shaft driven bikes?
See Moto Guzzi V11sport
Not sure if you ever got you answer, but shaft moments are neglected because the force is in the plane of the swing arm. Most shaft driven motorcycles actually lift up in the rear under thrust. This can be countered by implementing a 4-bar linkage shaft coupler.
So, what does Honda's new Goldwing Hossack-style front suspension add (or detract) from handling?
So when motorcycles compress the front suspension when increasing throttle on a dyno... Is that due to the built in angles ensuring moving parts of the motorcycle alone also encourage front suspension squat? 🤔
Bare table is enough for true master.
Great video.
I thought squat lengthens the wheel base. Making it want to run wide when you get on the gas hard out of corners?
A few times i saw on an auto scooter everytime the rider gas it, the rear actually lifted up. Guess its got somethin to do with the swingarm angle
I had a 1977 xs750 with the drive shaft.....it would stand up in the corners which was most disconcerting.......I think BMW does the same thing........drives shaft are a different animal....
how do you control anti-squat when there is no drive chain and no gear ratios, i.e, in case of a hub motor (EV).
Grip is always mechanical. principles of load transfer will still apply. Electric hub motors tend to be heavy, affecting the Center of Mass and of course, will have unsprung weight characteristics different from traditional motorcycles.
There is still a swingarm, and the rear wheel still wants to run under the center of the motorcycle, thus shrinking the base of the triangle during acceleration, and lifting up the seat. Maybe the static angle of the swingarm is reduced to account for the lack of chain force?
I just hope Tony Foley doesn't see this.....
love u man
Charles Manson riding motorcycles?I thought he was dead?
Great video, terrible music