Yep, assioma duos. Best way to track your signature, as you always use the same power meter on whatever bike you use. Go on holiday but don't take your bike, pedals are easy to take. Plus I've converted them to expedo cxr pedals, so I have spd and can ride gravel.
I'm glad you mentioned the Bike Calculator site. It is remarkably accurate (good enough for general use), and did well in comparison between its predictions and my actual ride performance. And it cross-checked well with the power measurements from the trainer I now use for winter/indoor fitness.
I would really Like a " how to" Series for absolute beginners! There are so many Details you cant Figure out as a beginner....strava, komoot, Training Apps...how to sync with your bike computer..and so on. My first roadbike and the garmin arrive on monday - so, hurry up😂
I train with HR and intuition. From time to time I do 1h flat ride with strava and watch their calcutions. If they are systemtically incresing it means that my form does as well. I pay 0$ and get knowledge whether I improve over time. I only dont have real time power estimates but they are not Worth for me right now. I can feel in legs when I push zone 2 or zone 4 or zone 6.
Many years ago me and my brother looked in the back of the BCF handbook for a coach and paid 20 pounds for him to analyze us whilst we did a test on a bike in his lounge. Surely this is the best way to find out your FTP. FTP is just a number surely it's better to paid for all the advice as well as being told what this magic FTP number is, the advice will probably be worth more the the FTP number.
What's the point to know your "not so actual FTP", when you can't use it in training. There are numerous ways to measure fitness, which will be better than that. Instead of buying a fancy lightweight stem for 300 quid, make yourself a favour and grab a real powemeter. It will be hands down the best upgrade on your bike, if you are performence orientated and want to improve. Good effort on the video, but still...
Well for one you could test it quarterly or at some given interval to track you fitness and see if you are improving..while using a heartrate monitor to train........
I was thinking exactly the same. Why know your FTP if you can not use it for anything out on the road. Makes no sense. I thought we were going to look at some of the math behind measuring power - with some shortcut tricks for when out on the road without a powermeter. I seem to remember that some Garmin Edge models can install a watts estimator field for use in the different riding setups. Though the number will not be recorded while riding. And I do not know how good it is in use. But maybe good for someone, who train with power on an indoor trainer and does not have a powermeter on the bike for outside rides.
To get extra power. I simply break wind. This gives me more thrust ,whilst simultaneously forcing the riders behind me to back off. Win Win all the way.
Question - If I don't have a power meter, what good is it to estimate my FTP? I do a lot of indoor workouts (the GCN ones are great btw) and just use perceived effort and HR zones. Since I can't see my estimated power "live" when riding, how can I really tell if I am at, above, or below my threshold? Is the idea to retest my FTP at intervals and see if my training is increasing it? What is a good interval?
I use bike calculator to estimate power up a 14km climb. But more importantly for me, I use my FTHR for pacing. It’s more reliable than power meters for pacing long climbs especially if you are already fatigued. My FTHR is around 175bpm. When I’m fresh I might be able to sustain 230-240W at 175bpm but that might drop to 180-200W at 175bpm when I already have 2000m on my legs. By following my FTHR I can guarantee that I would survive one more cat 1 climb but if I follow my FTP I would probably die halfway through because a power meter does not care about fatigue levels.
I’ve never understood why the average power is multiplied by 0.95. I think that’s way too optimistic...if you really give all that you have for the average on 20 minutes I don’t think is possible to hold 95% of that for a full hour. At least for most of us. True it’s the same method everyone use, but I would have opted for a multiplication factor of 0,85 or there about.
20 minutes is a good estimate. It's a long effort. It's not like you're going to sprint flat out for the whole 20 minutes. You're going to have to pace yourself in a similar manner to how you would over an hour. If you only do 20 min FTP tests it's a good way to compare your performance. Even if not technically accurate.
They left out the fact that the warmup for the 20 minute FTP test should include a hard 5 minute effort to reduce anaerobic contribution the the test. Also FTP is not the amount of power you can hold for an hour. Most people cannot hold their FTP for a full hour.
Others have already said it, but if you don’t have a power meter, there’s no point in figuring out your FTP. Also, I’ve had the dual sided Assioma power meter pedals for a year. They make a single sided version that’s even cheaper. They only cost in the hundreds, have worked great, and are plenty good enough for the vast majority of people. And because they are a pedal system, one set can be used on all your bikes and also measure the power where it’s most applicable to the effort you are putting out.
I've got a motor on my bike. If I pull the throttle only and don't pedal, I can see on the display how many Watts the motor is using. If I repeat that same section of road pedaling, while noting the Watts being used, I can work out (from how many less Watts it says when I am pedaling) how many Watts I am using to help the motor. It's not a power meter but it's not a bad way of judging it. I reckon I'm typically averaging about 50W 🤣 I go at about 11 MPH average speed and that's on a good day, hence the motor.
key is to use the steepest climb you can find, to reduce the impact of the variable of aerodynamics, which is impossible to guess. then run it through some online calculators. rolling resistance is obviously a margin of error, but you shouldnt be off that much, as on a very steep incline gravity is the biggest factor.
Knowing your ftp is only useful if you train with power, if you don't have a power meter and train with power what is the point of working out your ftp. I'm confused..
A lot of gyms have a spin bike with a power meter. Just get a day pass and use their spin bike for 5 bucks. My local gym has that, and I figure all my stats with that.
Last summer i cycled with mtb bike 47 km 1h 27 minutes so 32.6 km/h avg speed i used that bike calculator to get avg watts it was 18 degrees during the trip, zero wind, mtb bike about 12.5 kg and my weight 82 kg my position was bartops but i started timer 2 minutes too early so i lost 2 minutes from the 32.6 kmh avg speed the trip was insane 340 avg watts and my avg heart rate was 156 when my lowest watts record (recovery day trip) it was 23 degrees, zero wind 33.1 km/h avg speed with road bike ( 78 km trip) it was 230 avg watts with only 128 avg heart rate it's pretty insane because the trip lasted like 2h 30 minutes!
I bought second hand Elite Turbo Muin trainer with additional Misuro b+ sensor last September. Did 20 min FTP test. Trained for about 5+hours/week. Repeated FTP test in December but did 1hour test that time. Changed bearings in January which made it a bit easier to pedal - FTP will be different, I guess. Since I bought this trainer I have 130hours on it. It does not measure real power, it is just an estimate. Even though I spent some good amount of time on the trainer looking at the numbers, I just can't say what power output I produce. I can only guess in 20-50w range. I can say I do easy enough, moderately or around FTP or more. So, I see no point of knowing your FTP just for the number not being able to use it during each and every training. To know my FTP and train just by feelings misses the point of structured training completely. I just agree with other guys, here. Buy powermeter.
Video idea! A video explaining the different formats of track racing e.g. Elimination, Pursuit etc :) I'm sure that will go down a treat ahead of the new track series GCN will be streaming?
If you're interested in improving and want to measure that improvement then buy a power meter. Second hand dual sided will cost 3 or 4 hundred which isn't a lot if you are serious about improving.
I wouldn’t trust a power figure from the free version of Strava - mine varies by about 95w depending on which bike I nominate, i.e. 8kg road bike or 12kg commuter bike, when I go as hard as I can on both on the same 1hr route.
Different speed for the same effort (pretty much flat out on a route I ride at least once a week) but Strava power is very different. Incidentally, I find that I am 10% faster on the road bike than the commuter bike for the same effort.
@@gamma_dablam Strava only knows that one bike is classified as a "Road Bike" weighing 8kg and the other is a "Cross Bike" weighing 12kg. The only other options are "TT Bike" or "Mountain Bike" so "Cross Bike" seemed the best fit for the commuter. I put out the same amount of (perceived) effort whichever bike I ride, I just go as fast as I can, but the Strava power estimate for my commuter bike are always way, way more for the commuter bike rides. Makes me feel better about going much slower on that bike I suppose 😀
I calculated my ftp of 240w by climbing a hill which coincidentaly takes about an hour. 6% gradient on average, about 13km. Weigh yourself and your bike, find your tire model on bicyclerollingresistance.com, calculate your rolling drag and use an online calculator for aero drag. The aero drag is low, so any errors in calculation are small.
I use a static "dumb" trainer that doesn't have a power meter BUT, I found out that most trainers have a chart that you can find online that calculates watts per mile per hour or KPH (in the hardest setting of resistance). This is where Zwift gets there information even if you don't have a smart trainer. So all I do for my 20 minute test is ride as hard as I can for 20 minutes after a warm up and see what my average speed was. Then I look on the chart to see what power I was putting out at that average speed. Does anyone else use this method?
Recently, I tried one hour max effort and it is harder than all those faster tests. But most of all, some "short effort" zwifters might be suprised about the difference in the FTP value.
Strava Sauce, or some of the other Chrome Add-ons, gives you an estimated FTP, which seems to be only about 3 watts off my real FTP. The Chrome overlays gives a lot of good stats, like W/kg, VAM, 5/10/20/30/1hr power, etc.
@@hugobci You're not supposed to ride an audax at maximal effort, so the estimate is low. Smash a 10-30 minute climb all out and the estimate should become more realistic.
@@ltu42 Indeed I was going in less than my average effort in that audax. But I don't know if usefull to know my FTP. I have only GPS, no Heart monitor. I rely on my cadence meter to train.
I think doing an FTP test once a day for a month would be dangerous. Personally I go so deep the last five minutes that I almost pass out. Also, reaching maximum heart rate regurarly is not good. Some experts say that only professional athletes should do it.
I don't think it is a good idea to go that deep. I see ftp not only what I can do but also what I'm willing to do. The difference is pretty small, but the workouts based on that ftp still hurt a lot. It also creates a mental barrier because you can start to dread workouts or the ftp test itself.
Zwift power is the best... depending on what I set my trainer resistance I got a FTP between 207 and 392 (Done on the same bike, same trainer, same sensors with the ramp test) - which one could I take as a serious estimate? Sure the 392 one is pure ego, spinning resistance 1 and the 207 is stomping on pedals, on a resistance too great than I can handle. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy Zwift and I even did part of some of the training plans, all this because it got me used to pedal indoors, and I do enjoy to customize my avatar as in any video game. But I still don't understand how someone could train to power if they know their "estimated" FTP and not have a concrete way of measuring it in real time, you could do with indoor rides, but I think anyone could agree that cycling is better with people outside than staring at a screen between 4 walls. I don't own a power meter but I've been saving up to buy one and I'm dying to see how "close" these estimated watts are... Not to take anything away from Manon who is doing a great job and it suits her quite well as a presenter... but this video basically says "know your FTP so you can have something to wave your prick around to people about".
I can't ride as hard as I can for 20 mins, lol. Going full gas I might last 5. Do you ride has hard as you can sustain for 20 minutes, or just burn out and ride slower once your legs are jelly? Not all of us are pros!
Well, whilst doing a full gas 20min the first 5 min will feel quite enjoyable. The further you go, the more it'll hurt. You just have to pace yourself right. At the and you'll experience excruciatinf pain, if you did it right :) I can't hold my max power for even 30 seconds, and I'm pretty damn sure no human can do it either
Strava's power estimation is complete crap. It once estimated my avg power over a 1.5 hour race to be 440 watts - I wish! Why try to obtain your FTP when you don't have a PM afterwards to make sure you're training in the right zones? If you're unable to afford a power meter, train to RPE. I have a PM & I find I pace my TTs better when I ride to RPE than power anyway. You can get really in tune with your body & hit the right-ish zones you need to for training with RPE.
Zwift's or similar 0.95×20 min max. power is not real for everybody. At least not for me, as I cannot imagine I could hold that for full hour, which I got from Zwift. Maybe this works for alot stronger athletes. U need to attempt one hour record to have real number of youf ftp :)
The 95% of 20 minute power is a reasonable compromise -- easier to test and recover from than a full 60 minute effort, but still sufficiently precise for most people.
@@Lodosj Zwift speed is made up, designed to make it more fun and keep you more engaged. But your mean max power is almost certainly higher outdoors than on a trainer.
@@ltu42 it should be but it is not always the case, maybe this works well for cyclists with linear power curve, but we all know there are various types of people like short peak sprinters, puncheurs etc. and their power curves differ.
Would love to see your review on a velocomp powered V3 as a cheaper alternative. From what I've seen they're about as accurate as you can get without paddles, crank or hub meters. What do you lads and ladies think??
@@stewarthinsley6995 yeah, but they only showcase stuff they get money for and so it's up to the brand to get in touch with them. One example is the conti gp 5000 showcase, they didnt review they just showed "here is a new one, thx conti for the money" I have nothing against this but yes, reviews would be nice once in a while
I have a powerpod, and we stuck it on a bike with a power meter and the numbers were very close. From a training purposes perspective, I'd call it good enough, since you will be training against the power it gives you, so if it's 5 watts different, your training program is also adjusted 5 watts different, so your ultimately still training at the same intensity and getting the same benefits. The one time I can't use it and get an accurate reading is cyclocross. It would also not be good for MTB on rough trails or mud. With a very uneven/sketchy surface like that it's fancy internal math gets thrown out of whack, it relies on knowing your gradient, the wind speed, etc. so when your bouncing around your "gradient" is also bouncing all around, and the wind going into the sensor is rapidly changing directions, so the numbers bounce all over the place while you are doing it.... IE say your rear wheel is off the ground spinning at 17mph, your really not putting out many watts because of no resistance for that brief moment, but if your cranks are still spinning at all since the cadence sensor is still feeding it data it thinks your putting out 17mph of watts at an incline or descent. Also riding in thick grass sucks a hella lot of power, but it doesn't know that your surface is sucking so much power. You can calibrate for pavement or chip seal, chip seal calibration would be closer... but neither are the same as loosely packed dirt / grass / roots. Hard packed dirt that is relatively smooth works OK with the chip seal calibration. Hopefully that makes sense. If you are really ambitious you can go into the software and modify all of the parameters it uses to calculate stuff and adjust your ride to match your conditions, if you can quantify the rolling resistance properly (IE thick grass scenario). But how do you know what that really is? I don't know... So also it may or may not be great for gravel, it would depend on how close your gravel is to "chip seal" like conditions. Hard packed gravel or dirt probably would be ok, anything loose, muddy, soft, not so much.
Has anyone tried running a bicycle on a chassis dynamometer (used for motorcycles)? They are usually better calibrated but will measure power at the wheel.
Rohan Rayakar I seriously doubt that is possible. 1 hp is about 750 watts. They would have no need to be less than a hp specific, or measure less than one hp. You might not even be able to turn the dyno with less than 1 hp.
Since when does FTHR not improve with training (3:57)? I understand the limitations of measuring and training to FTHR, but I don’t understand why one’s heart rate at threshold wouldn’t drop as one becomes fitter.
It's the other way around. As you get aerobically fitter, your threshold HR is a higher percentage of your maximal HR. However, your HR would go down for the same speed...
dccyclocross That makes sense. In other words, as a rider gets fitter, he or she would be able to sustain a higher heart rate without going beyond their lactate threshold. But in the video, she says that fthr doesn’t change with training. Wouldn’t that mean that there’s no reason to repeat a fthr test and adjust HR training zones as the season progresses? Or am I misunderstanding some fundamental principle?
@@donbushek I re-listened to the video- I think she says it doesn't normally change "in athletes". I think it does change a lot when you go from sedentary to well-trained. And, athletes who are optimized for different events would be able to maintain a different percentage of their maximal HR (such as a 400m runner vs a marathoner, which is why I added 'aerobically' above ). Based on what she says- once you are well-trained and if you train in the same way, then your HR wouldn't change much. But I suspect if you made a big change in the type of training you did then you could see a change (though the changes might be slow, over years) . I would suggest tracking HR, but in conjunction with another metric such as power or speed.
Computer based applications use the same basic ride data that the bike calculator uses to work out your power curve / speed. Likewise, if you put in incorrect data you get free Zwift speed!!! In-fact, the bike calculator is probably the most accurate as you not the software program selects the specific ride dynamics.......... it all just basic physics. Anyway as someone else mentioned below, if you don't have a power meter you don't need an FTP, Doh !!!!!!
The calculator program is WAY out. I used data from Vegan cyclist's videos (he's a big guy like me). I got a carpenter's inclinometer from Canadian Tire to measure grade. A nearby hill is signposted at 15% but is actually 20%.
You can get the average gradient from Google maps for example. I calculated my improvement doing this 30 min climb before I got a pm with the bike calculator website. And its really not far off if wind and aero factors are removed from the equation.
Yes I do but on trainer Power meter I have 287 in ftp and in the same effort I also used my Garmin pedal power meter and had 266 ftp with them. So now I really not know what power I have :).
@@jlyonia You sure? I know my pulse better fit with the trainer if I compere with rides I done outside with my Garmin pedals. Maybe my Garmin pedals not right inside since I not have natural Rolling restincance?
@@petinka721 Also, there can be quite significant differences in power based on where it is read - crank, spider, hub etc .along with differences in accuracy. Check out dcrainmaker's site. He has a lot of power meter reviews and accuracy comparisons. You may find more info there to indicate which is more reflective of reality.
How to calculate your FTP by telling you to use a load of tech. Which must have the formulae but obviously they dont want us to know the actual maths..
I thought this was supposed to be about doing an FTP TEST without a power meter but you went on about power meters a long time. I only have a Heartrate monitor could you spend more time in a video saying how to use that for FTP Test
Nice video Manon. Good ideas on how to calculate your FTP if you are on a budget 😊. Question: I have read somewhere that multiplying your 20 min power by 0.95 (i.e 95%) is just a myth because in reality it is much lower, at least 85%. Although I have not tested it, It sounds logical to me because if I do a max effort for 20 min, I don’t think I will hold 95% of that for 1 hour. What do you think ?
Seriously though what’s the point if you don’t have the meter. Of late your really clutching at straws, repeats and the lamest content. What has happened since Matt and Emma and Si have left. Even Opie is missing.
One would use these methods if they dont have an FTP. however estimating an FTP is useless if one doesnt have a power meter to train with. Sorry, So why bother with this video?
Thumbs down. Please don't use this advise. HR really ? It's affected by weather ,sleep , coffee ,food. It keeps dropping as you ride longer like multi days. It's ok but definitely not as helpful as power meter .
Do you train with a power meter?
Yep, assioma duos. Best way to track your signature, as you always use the same power meter on whatever bike you use. Go on holiday but don't take your bike, pedals are easy to take.
Plus I've converted them to expedo cxr pedals, so I have spd and can ride gravel.
Yes. But I do use HR a lot as well
My home trainer has a power meter, but i dont know how accurate is it
@@rcs2003 which one?
Power meters are super expensive. But i do use a fully functional GPS Bryton 530 Cycling computer, Heart rate, cadence, FTP, & so on.
Without even walking out to my bicycle, I can tell you my FTP. It's pathetic.
I'm glad you mentioned the Bike Calculator site. It is remarkably accurate (good enough for general use), and did well in comparison between its predictions and my actual ride performance. And it cross-checked well with the power measurements from the trainer I now use for winter/indoor fitness.
Glad we could help, Tom! Happy training!
Manon is great 😃 when it comes to explaining anything. She would be a great teacher. Love her
mary poppins
When I was 30 my FTP was 330, at 40 it was 270. Now I'm 45 I think it would just be demoralising to know, so I wont check it, ignorance is bliss.
Enjoy watching Manon so much. Such a natural presenter.
Q) How To Calculate Your Functional Threshold Power Without A Power Meter
A) Use a power meter
Thanks. That was really helpful.
Why do I need to know my ftp if I do not have a power meter really......
You must practice WITH a power meter around your ftp...
Actually, if you ride on Zwift, it calculates workout intensity based on your FTP. You need a smart trainer, though...
Then you can brag :)
You don't, but of course that was a rhetorical question wasn't it. 😁
Finally we found Si!!!!!!!
3:44
Because of the pasty, white chest, with a total lack of any real upper torso muscles? :) :)
@@RogerMcGuiremusic I remember my first beer.
He doesn't have the ring in his right hand xD
I would really Like a " how to" Series for absolute beginners! There are so many Details you cant Figure out as a beginner....strava, komoot, Training Apps...how to sync with your bike computer..and so on.
My first roadbike and the garmin arrive on monday - so, hurry up😂
I love the making of each video. Cheeers!!!!
I train with HR and intuition. From time to time I do 1h flat ride with strava and watch their calcutions. If they are systemtically incresing it means that my form does as well. I pay 0$ and get knowledge whether I improve over time. I only dont have real time power estimates but they are not Worth for me right now. I can feel in legs when I push zone 2 or zone 4 or zone 6.
Many years ago me and my brother looked in the back of the BCF handbook for a coach and paid 20 pounds for him to analyze us whilst we did a test on a bike in his lounge.
Surely this is the best way to find out your FTP.
FTP is just a number surely it's better to paid for all the advice as well as being told what this magic FTP number is, the advice will probably be worth more the the FTP number.
What's the point to know your "not so actual FTP", when you can't use it in training. There are numerous ways to measure fitness, which will be better than that. Instead of buying a fancy lightweight stem for 300 quid, make yourself a favour and grab a real powemeter. It will be hands down the best upgrade on your bike, if you are performence orientated and want to improve.
Good effort on the video, but still...
That comment.
Well for one you could test it quarterly or at some given interval to track you fitness and see if you are improving..while using a heartrate monitor to train........
Well some people just don’t have the money...
I was thinking exactly the same. Why know your FTP if you can not use it for anything out on the road. Makes no sense. I thought we were going to look at some of the math behind measuring power - with some shortcut tricks for when out on the road without a powermeter. I seem to remember that some Garmin Edge models can install a watts estimator field for use in the different riding setups. Though the number will not be recorded while riding. And I do not know how good it is in use. But maybe good for someone, who train with power on an indoor trainer and does not have a powermeter on the bike for outside rides.
@@mgoo1713 You can but what is the point of that?
To get extra power. I simply break wind. This gives me more thrust ,whilst simultaneously forcing the riders behind me to back off. Win Win all the way.
And even if they do not back off, you are creating extra air resistance to them, limiting the draft they get from you
Question - If I don't have a power meter, what good is it to estimate my FTP? I do a lot of indoor workouts (the GCN ones are great btw) and just use perceived effort and HR zones. Since I can't see my estimated power "live" when riding, how can I really tell if I am at, above, or below my threshold? Is the idea to retest my FTP at intervals and see if my training is increasing it? What is a good interval?
I use bike calculator to estimate power up a 14km climb. But more importantly for me, I use my FTHR for pacing. It’s more reliable than power meters for pacing long climbs especially if you are already fatigued. My FTHR is around 175bpm. When I’m fresh I might be able to sustain 230-240W at 175bpm but that might drop to 180-200W at 175bpm when I already have 2000m on my legs. By following my FTHR I can guarantee that I would survive one more cat 1 climb but if I follow my FTP I would probably die halfway through because a power meter does not care about fatigue levels.
I’ve never understood why the average power is multiplied by 0.95. I think that’s way too optimistic...if you really give all that you have for the average on 20 minutes I don’t think is possible to hold 95% of that for a full hour. At least for most of us. True it’s the same method everyone use, but I would have opted for a multiplication factor of 0,85 or there about.
20 minutes is a good estimate. It's a long effort. It's not like you're going to sprint flat out for the whole 20 minutes. You're going to have to pace yourself in a similar manner to how you would over an hour.
If you only do 20 min FTP tests it's a good way to compare your performance. Even if not technically accurate.
They left out the fact that the warmup for the 20 minute FTP test should include a hard 5 minute effort to reduce anaerobic contribution the the test. Also FTP is not the amount of power you can hold for an hour. Most people cannot hold their FTP for a full hour.
You can also just make up your FTP number out of thin air.. It's what I do. #151RULES!!!!💪
That black bike is lovely!
Others have already said it, but if you don’t have a power meter, there’s no point in figuring out your FTP.
Also, I’ve had the dual sided Assioma power meter pedals for a year. They make a single sided version that’s even cheaper. They only cost in the hundreds, have worked great, and are plenty good enough for the vast majority of people. And because they are a pedal system, one set can be used on all your bikes and also measure the power where it’s most applicable to the effort you are putting out.
Hey how is the duriablity on those? I've been a little hesitant to buy them since my pedals often get hit with rocks, pavement and so on.
I've got a motor on my bike. If I pull the throttle only and don't pedal, I can see on the display how many Watts the motor is using. If I repeat that same section of road pedaling, while noting the Watts being used, I can work out (from how many less Watts it says when I am pedaling) how many Watts I am using to help the motor. It's not a power meter but it's not a bad way of judging it. I reckon I'm typically averaging about 50W 🤣 I go at about 11 MPH average speed and that's on a good day, hence the motor.
key is to use the steepest climb you can find, to reduce the impact of the variable of aerodynamics, which is impossible to guess. then run it through some online calculators. rolling resistance is obviously a margin of error, but you shouldnt be off that much, as on a very steep incline gravity is the biggest factor.
Yep, steep straight, smooth and steady gradient. Preferably on a nil wind day.
I just ended up getting a power meter, even windy days are fun then.
Greetings from Philippines🚴
Knowing your ftp is only useful if you train with power, if you don't have a power meter and train with power what is the point of working out your ftp. I'm confused..
A lot of gyms have a spin bike with a power meter. Just get a day pass and use their spin bike for 5 bucks. My local gym has that, and I figure all my stats with that.
Last summer i cycled with mtb bike 47 km 1h 27 minutes so 32.6 km/h avg speed i used that bike calculator to get avg watts it was 18 degrees during the trip, zero wind, mtb bike about 12.5 kg and my weight 82 kg my position was bartops but i started timer 2 minutes too early so i lost 2 minutes from the 32.6 kmh avg speed the trip was insane 340 avg watts and my avg heart rate was 156 when my lowest watts record (recovery day trip) it was 23 degrees, zero wind 33.1 km/h avg speed with road bike ( 78 km trip) it was 230 avg watts with only 128 avg heart rate it's pretty insane because the trip lasted like 2h 30 minutes!
Consider adding punctuation to your arsenal, it helps.
3:37 👀👀👀
😂😂
“They had us in the first half, I’m not gonna lie”
little lad's gotta a future in trainspotting ;)
That’s surely not her
I bought second hand Elite Turbo Muin trainer with additional Misuro b+ sensor last September. Did 20 min FTP test. Trained for about 5+hours/week. Repeated FTP test in December but did 1hour test that time. Changed bearings in January which made it a bit easier to pedal - FTP will be different, I guess.
Since I bought this trainer I have 130hours on it. It does not measure real power, it is just an estimate.
Even though I spent some good amount of time on the trainer looking at the numbers, I just can't say what power output I produce. I can only guess in 20-50w range. I can say I do easy enough, moderately or around FTP or more.
So, I see no point of knowing your FTP just for the number not being able to use it during each and every training. To know my FTP and train just by feelings misses the point of structured training completely.
I just agree with other guys, here. Buy powermeter.
Video idea! A video explaining the different formats of track racing e.g. Elimination, Pursuit etc :) I'm sure that will go down a treat ahead of the new track series GCN will be streaming?
Strava also gives average power over any interval for free accounts. Just use the Analysis tool or define your private segment.
If you're interested in improving and want to measure that improvement then buy a power meter. Second hand dual sided will cost 3 or 4 hundred which isn't a lot if you are serious about improving.
I wouldn’t trust a power figure from the free version of Strava - mine varies by about 95w depending on which bike I nominate, i.e. 8kg road bike or 12kg commuter bike, when I go as hard as I can on both on the same 1hr route.
If the speed is the same then of course it is going to vary a lot.
Different speed for the same effort (pretty much flat out on a route I ride at least once a week) but Strava power is very different. Incidentally, I find that I am 10% faster on the road bike than the commuter bike for the same effort.
@@captainsensible9567 maybe it is overcompensating for aerodynamics ?
@@gamma_dablam Strava only knows that one bike is classified as a "Road Bike" weighing 8kg and the other is a "Cross Bike" weighing 12kg. The only other options are "TT Bike" or "Mountain Bike" so "Cross Bike" seemed the best fit for the commuter. I put out the same amount of (perceived) effort whichever bike I ride, I just go as fast as I can, but the Strava power estimate for my commuter bike are always way, way more for the commuter bike rides. Makes me feel better about going much slower on that bike I suppose 😀
@@captainsensible9567 hence the overcompensation as it thinks the cross bike is much less aero
I calculated my ftp of 240w by climbing a hill which coincidentaly takes about an hour. 6% gradient on average, about 13km. Weigh yourself and your bike, find your tire model on bicyclerollingresistance.com, calculate your rolling drag and use an online calculator for aero drag. The aero drag is low, so any errors in calculation are small.
I use a static "dumb" trainer that doesn't have a power meter BUT, I found out that most trainers have a chart that you can find online that calculates watts per mile per hour or KPH (in the hardest setting of resistance). This is where Zwift gets there information even if you don't have a smart trainer. So all I do for my 20 minute test is ride as hard as I can for 20 minutes after a warm up and see what my average speed was. Then I look on the chart to see what power I was putting out at that average speed. Does anyone else use this method?
Recently, I tried one hour max effort and it is harder than all those faster tests. But most of all, some "short effort" zwifters might be suprised about the difference in the FTP value.
Hang on. What’s the point of doing an FTP test when u don’t have a power meter to train with
Could measure progress over time. I guess you could similarly do that by going full gas on a 20min+ circuit/loop and record over time.
Zwift etc.
Just so you can boast to your friends who have a power meter, maybe? probably xD
Strava Sauce, or some of the other Chrome Add-ons, gives you an estimated FTP, which seems to be only about 3 watts off my real FTP. The Chrome overlays gives a lot of good stats, like W/kg, VAM, 5/10/20/30/1hr power, etc.
I´ve seen this data using sauce for strava. After a 200 km audax it stimate ~163w / 1h. I don't what this means or what to do with this info lolol
@@hugobci You're not supposed to ride an audax at maximal effort, so the estimate is low. Smash a 10-30 minute climb all out and the estimate should become more realistic.
@@ltu42 Indeed I was going in less than my average effort in that audax. But I don't know if usefull to know my FTP. I have only GPS, no Heart monitor. I rely on my cadence meter to train.
Great info and presentation.
I think doing an FTP test once a day for a month would be dangerous. Personally I go so deep the last five minutes that I almost pass out. Also, reaching maximum heart rate regurarly is not good. Some experts say that only professional athletes should do it.
I don't think it is a good idea to go that deep. I see ftp not only what I can do but also what I'm willing to do. The difference is pretty small, but the workouts based on that ftp still hurt a lot. It also creates a mental barrier because you can start to dread workouts or the ftp test itself.
Zwift power is the best... depending on what I set my trainer resistance I got a FTP between 207 and 392 (Done on the same bike, same trainer, same sensors with the ramp test) - which one could I take as a serious estimate? Sure the 392 one is pure ego, spinning resistance 1 and the 207 is stomping on pedals, on a resistance too great than I can handle.
Don't get me wrong, I enjoy Zwift and I even did part of some of the training plans, all this because it got me used to pedal indoors, and I do enjoy to customize my avatar as in any video game. But I still don't understand how someone could train to power if they know their "estimated" FTP and not have a concrete way of measuring it in real time, you could do with indoor rides, but I think anyone could agree that cycling is better with people outside than staring at a screen between 4 walls.
I don't own a power meter but I've been saving up to buy one and I'm dying to see how "close" these estimated watts are...
Not to take anything away from Manon who is doing a great job and it suits her quite well as a presenter... but this video basically says "know your FTP so you can have something to wave your prick around to people about".
Please please please.... stop telling people that ftp last for an hour. You guys are one of, If not the, most influential network in cycling.
What else is it? 95% of 20 minute power? Power that can be maintained indefinitely?
@@ltu42 theoretically it's time to exhaustion and can vary from 35-75 minutes depending on athlete
I can't ride as hard as I can for 20 mins, lol. Going full gas I might last 5. Do you ride has hard as you can sustain for 20 minutes, or just burn out and ride slower once your legs are jelly? Not all of us are pros!
Well, whilst doing a full gas 20min the first 5 min will feel quite enjoyable. The further you go, the more it'll hurt. You just have to pace yourself right. At the and you'll experience excruciatinf pain, if you did it right :)
I can't hold my max power for even 30 seconds, and I'm pretty damn sure no human can do it either
Strava's power estimation is complete crap. It once estimated my avg power over a 1.5 hour race to be 440 watts - I wish! Why try to obtain your FTP when you don't have a PM afterwards to make sure you're training in the right zones? If you're unable to afford a power meter, train to RPE. I have a PM & I find I pace my TTs better when I ride to RPE than power anyway. You can get really in tune with your body & hit the right-ish zones you need to for training with RPE.
Is the online bike calculator accurate on an indoor trainer?
At 3:36, uhm...
HAHAHHAHAA!!
In his defense, he was paying a great deal of attention, just not to her words 🤓
Zwift's or similar 0.95×20 min max. power is not real for everybody. At least not for me, as I cannot imagine I could hold that for full hour, which I got from Zwift. Maybe this works for alot stronger athletes. U need to attempt one hour record to have real number of youf ftp :)
Same. Just like the average speed on Zwift. No way i can reach those numbers outdoors
The 95% of 20 minute power is a reasonable compromise -- easier to test and recover from than a full 60 minute effort, but still sufficiently precise for most people.
@@Lodosj Zwift speed is made up, designed to make it more fun and keep you more engaged. But your mean max power is almost certainly higher outdoors than on a trainer.
@@ltu42 it should be but it is not always the case, maybe this works well for cyclists with linear power curve, but we all know there are various types of people like short peak sprinters, puncheurs etc. and their power curves differ.
Would love to see your review on a velocomp powered V3 as a cheaper alternative. From what I've seen they're about as accurate as you can get without paddles, crank or hub meters. What do you lads and ladies think??
I think they dont do reviews, only showcases
@@nugginusslover476 showcase it then 🤣🤣🤣
@@stewarthinsley6995 yeah, but they only showcase stuff they get money for and so it's up to the brand to get in touch with them.
One example is the conti gp 5000 showcase, they didnt review they just showed "here is a new one, thx conti for the money"
I have nothing against this but yes, reviews would be nice once in a while
I have a powerpod, and we stuck it on a bike with a power meter and the numbers were very close. From a training purposes perspective, I'd call it good enough, since you will be training against the power it gives you, so if it's 5 watts different, your training program is also adjusted 5 watts different, so your ultimately still training at the same intensity and getting the same benefits.
The one time I can't use it and get an accurate reading is cyclocross. It would also not be good for MTB on rough trails or mud. With a very uneven/sketchy surface like that it's fancy internal math gets thrown out of whack, it relies on knowing your gradient, the wind speed, etc. so when your bouncing around your "gradient" is also bouncing all around, and the wind going into the sensor is rapidly changing directions, so the numbers bounce all over the place while you are doing it.... IE say your rear wheel is off the ground spinning at 17mph, your really not putting out many watts because of no resistance for that brief moment, but if your cranks are still spinning at all since the cadence sensor is still feeding it data it thinks your putting out 17mph of watts at an incline or descent. Also riding in thick grass sucks a hella lot of power, but it doesn't know that your surface is sucking so much power. You can calibrate for pavement or chip seal, chip seal calibration would be closer... but neither are the same as loosely packed dirt / grass / roots. Hard packed dirt that is relatively smooth works OK with the chip seal calibration. Hopefully that makes sense. If you are really ambitious you can go into the software and modify all of the parameters it uses to calculate stuff and adjust your ride to match your conditions, if you can quantify the rolling resistance properly (IE thick grass scenario). But how do you know what that really is? I don't know...
So also it may or may not be great for gravel, it would depend on how close your gravel is to "chip seal" like conditions. Hard packed gravel or dirt probably would be ok, anything loose, muddy, soft, not so much.
Strava Summit is £48.99 per year, not £18.99
Don't pay full summit features, only pay for for power.
What kind of bike and groupset is that lady riding?
Pro tip: buy a power meter
Average cyclist tip: If you are not a pro you dont need to buy a power meter
Great Laugh at the very end
This woman always sounds like she's just eaten a large spoon of peanut butter right before her segments begin
Yeah! Ain't it sexy!! heheheeeeeee
Has anyone tried running a bicycle on a chassis dynamometer (used for motorcycles)? They are usually better calibrated but will measure power at the wheel.
Rohan Rayakar I seriously doubt that is possible. 1 hp is about 750 watts. They would have no need to be less than a hp specific, or measure less than one hp. You might not even be able to turn the dyno with less than 1 hp.
Jonathan Zappala agree with that. The tolerance itself is more than what a human can produce in some cases.
Since when does FTHR not improve with training (3:57)? I understand the limitations of measuring and training to FTHR, but I don’t understand why one’s heart rate at threshold wouldn’t drop as one becomes fitter.
It's the other way around. As you get aerobically fitter, your threshold HR is a higher percentage of your maximal HR. However, your HR would go down for the same speed...
dccyclocross That makes sense. In other words, as a rider gets fitter, he or she would be able to sustain a higher heart rate without going beyond their lactate threshold. But in the video, she says that fthr doesn’t change with training. Wouldn’t that mean that there’s no reason to repeat a fthr test and adjust HR training zones as the season progresses? Or am I misunderstanding some fundamental principle?
@@donbushek I re-listened to the video- I think she says it doesn't normally change "in athletes". I think it does change a lot when you go from sedentary to well-trained. And, athletes who are optimized for different events would be able to maintain a different percentage of their maximal HR (such as a 400m runner vs a marathoner, which is why I added 'aerobically' above ). Based on what she says- once you are well-trained and if you train in the same way, then your HR wouldn't change much. But I suspect if you made a big change in the type of training you did then you could see a change (though the changes might be slow, over years) . I would suggest tracking HR, but in conjunction with another metric such as power or speed.
Computer based applications use the same basic ride data that the bike calculator uses to work out your power curve / speed. Likewise, if you put in incorrect data you get free Zwift speed!!! In-fact, the bike calculator is probably the most accurate as you not the software program selects the specific ride dynamics.......... it all just basic physics. Anyway as someone else mentioned below, if you don't have a power meter you don't need an FTP, Doh !!!!!!
The calculator program is WAY out. I used data from Vegan cyclist's videos (he's a big guy like me).
I got a carpenter's inclinometer from Canadian Tire to measure grade. A nearby hill is signposted at 15% but is actually 20%.
You can get the average gradient from Google maps for example. I calculated my improvement doing this 30 min climb before I got a pm with the bike calculator website. And its really not far off if wind and aero factors are removed from the equation.
@@bansheemaczero1715 it had me at 1100 watts lol...I better withdraw my team application
Yes I do but on trainer Power meter I have 287 in ftp and in the same effort I also used my Garmin pedal power meter and had 266 ftp with them. So now I really not know what power I have :).
The highest value is obviously the right one...
@@jlyonia You sure? I know my pulse better fit with the trainer if I compere with rides I done outside with my Garmin pedals. Maybe my Garmin pedals not right inside since I not have natural Rolling restincance?
@@petinka721 No, not at all mate. I was talking about boasting value only 😛
@@petinka721 Also, there can be quite significant differences in power based on where it is read - crank, spider, hub etc .along with differences in accuracy. Check out dcrainmaker's site. He has a lot of power meter reviews and accuracy comparisons. You may find more info there to indicate which is more reflective of reality.
Why not?
rider weight 120kg? No schitzels anymore!
Don't have to worry about power ,got SFA 😅
How to calculate your FTP by telling you to use a load of tech. Which must have the formulae but obviously they dont want us to know the actual maths..
I thought this was supposed to be about doing an FTP TEST without a power meter but you went on about power meters a long time. I only have a Heartrate monitor could you spend more time in a video saying how to use that for FTP Test
Where's Si ? 😞😞☹
1:00 What about wind, grade,...
Your power is the same in all conditions
I'm watching your video but idont have a bike
If you don't have a power meter, you can't train to power, so why bother with estimated FTP? Why not set your training zones by heart rate?
Or perceived level of effort/exertion? Even if I knew my precise FTP, it wouldn't change how I ride or train.
If you use your regular training loop, then it's possible to measure progression.
i dont have any friends.
Great presentation from Manon but just buy a cheap power meter if you're reasonably committed cyclist.
Nice video Manon. Good ideas on how to calculate your FTP if you are on a budget 😊. Question: I have read somewhere that multiplying your 20 min power by 0.95 (i.e 95%) is just a myth because in reality it is much lower, at least 85%. Although I have not tested it, It sounds logical to me because if I do a max effort for 20 min, I don’t think I will hold 95% of that for 1 hour. What do you think ?
Stephanos Christou I agree 95% is realistic only for pros.
She keeps getting better
Seriously though what’s the point if you don’t have the meter. Of late your really clutching at straws, repeats and the lamest content. What has happened since Matt and Emma and Si have left. Even Opie is missing.
If you don't have a powermeter, no point knowing your FTP power...
bs
zwift?? free??
FTP is overrated.
Quarq won’t like this
One would use these methods if they dont have an FTP. however estimating an FTP is useless if one doesnt have a power meter to train with. Sorry, So why bother with this video?
Were poor
Good video! Keep it up! Would you like to be TH-cam friends? :]
You weigh 120 lbs!! perfect! lol
Second
eyy 1st
Thumbs down. Please don't use this advise. HR really ? It's affected by weather ,sleep , coffee ,food. It keeps dropping as you ride longer like multi days. It's ok but definitely not as helpful as power meter .
I want her